reuerent estimation regard of them that they be not despised or abused although they be but signes So that water in baptism and the creatures of breade and wine in the Lordes supper which are the two examples here mentioned are to be reuerenced as things that be sacred by the word and ordinaÌ„ce of God but not to be adored and honored for the things themselues whose signes they are that were a miserable seruitude or rather the right death of the soule as Austen noteth And that the first teachers of truth remoued al Images as vnprofitable signes to serue God with the words before do plainly shew For speaking of the difference between the Iewes and the Gentils when they should be conuerted vnto Christ he saith ChristiaÌ„ liberty finding the Iewes vnder profitable signes to wit the rites Ceremonies of the Lawe did interprete the meaning of them and so by directing the people to the things themselues deliuered them from the seruitude of the signes but finding the Gentiles vnder vnprofitable signes for that they worshipped Images either as Gods or as the signes and resemblaunces of Gods ipsa signa fruâ—trauit remouitque omnia shee wholy remoued and frustrated the signes themselues that is shee would not suffer them to serue the true God with any such signes as bodily shapes and Images were Your honouring of Images is reproued as you see and not releeued by S. Augustines Rule And since the Lawe of God expressely and â—treitly chargeth you not so much as to bowe your bodies or knees to the likenesse of any thing in heauen or earth which is made with handes consult your owne consciences whether you may with your respects frustrate or with your routes ouerbeare the distinct and direct voice of God himselfe in his own Church And if you be not giuen ouer into a reprobate sense you wil say no. Now that which is against the Law of God can neither be Christian nor Catholike Your Doctrine therefore of bowing and kneeling to Images is repugnant both to the precepts of God and to the generall auncient resolution of Christs church your adoring them with diuine honour is a sacrilegious and flagitious as well noueltie as impietie Phi. You must not looke that we should defend the sayings doings of all that haue takeÌ„ part with the church of Rome If Thomas waded too far in worshipping Images if Gerson mistooke S. Augustine if the later Councell of Nice denied or strained some of the ancient Fathers you must not chalenge vs for their ouerâ—ightes The. We chalenge you for vaunting your selues to be Catholikes when in deede you doe nothing but smooth and sleike the corruptions and inuentions of later ages against the right ancient faith of Christs church The discent of Images with their adoration how late it began how often it varied how far at length it swarued froÌ„ the Primatiue original profession of the christiaÌ„ catholik faith we haue spent somtime to examine Let vs now approch to your praiers in a straÌ„ge toung which haue a great deal lesse shew of catholicism thaÌ„ images had yet are as egerly defended by you as images were Phi. In the Latine toung we haue praiers in a strange toung we haue none you rather that haue turned scriptures church seruice secretes for your pleasures into the English tongue make your praiers in a strange and vnwonted speach to catholik earesâ— The. To English meÌ„ the English toung is not strange Phi. I know they vnderstand it but I call it strange because they were not woont to haue the publike praiers of the Church in their mother toung Theo. In cases of religion we must respect not what men haue but what they should haue beene vsed to Cyprian saith well Consuetudo sine veritate vetustas erroris est Custome without trueth is but the long continuance of error so Tertullian Quodcunque aduersus veritatem sapit hoc erit haeresis etiam vetus consuetudo Whatsoeuer is against the trueth it must bee counted heresie though it be an old Custom The Councell of Carthage where Cyprian was resolued thuâ— The Lord saith in the Gospel I am trueth he said not I am custom Trueth therefore appearing let custom yeeld to truth Phi. That councel erred in neglecting the old custom which the church obserued Theo. But yet their generall assertion which I alleage was so strong that S. Augustine saith to those very wordes Plane respondeo quis dubitet veritatis manifestae debere consuetudinem cedere I plainly answere who doubteth but that custom must yeeld to the trueth appearing Phi. Neither doe we doubt of that but how proue you this to be a manifest trueth that the people of this Land must haue their diuine seruice in the English tongue Theo. It is the manifest precept of him that said I am trueth and witnessed in the Scripture which is the worde of trueth Philan. In what place there Theo. Make not your selfe so great a stranger in the Scriptures as if you knew not the place Phi. You meane the 14. Chapter of the first epistle which S Paul wrote to the Church of Corinth Theo. I doe what say you to it Phi. Mary this we say The reader may take a tast in this one point of your deceitfull dealing abusing the simplicitie of the popular by peruerse application of Gods holy word vpon some smale similitude equiuocatioÌ„ of certaine termes against the approued godly vse and trueth of the vniuersall Church for the seruice in the Latine or Greeke tongue which you ignorantly or rather wilfully pretend to be against this discourse of S. Paul touching strange tongues Theo. And hee that marketh your shifting and facing in this one point shall need no farther tast of your dealing Phi. If you like not that which we say refel it Theo. Can your selues tell what you say Phi. You shall well find that when we come to the matter Theo. First then heare what the Apostle saith and after you shal haue leaue to say what you will Instructing the Church of Corinth thus he saith And now brethren if I come to you speaking with strange tongues what shall I profite you If a truÌ„pet giue an vncertaine sound who wil prepare himself to the battel So likewise you by the tongue except you vtter words of easie vnderstanding how shal it be knoweÌ„ what is spoken For you shal speake in the aire There are for example so many kindes of tongues in the worlde and none of them is without sound Except I know the power and signification of the speach I shall be to him that speaketh barbarous and he that speaketh shall be barbarous to me Wherefore let him that speaketh a strange tongue pray thâ—t he may interpret For if I pray in a tongue not vnderstood my spirite praieth but mine vnderstanding is without fruit What is it then I wil pray with the spirit but I wil pray with the vnderstanding also I wil sing with the spirit but I will sing with the vnderstanding also
and exercises were handled and perfited either wholy or chiefely by the Grecians the Romanes affecting rather the inlarging of their Empire with armes and triumphes than the furnishing of their citie with scholasticall academicall ornamentes The Latine tongue came in last and though in the West partes betweene this and Rome it some-what preuailed by reason of the Empire and no better tongue neerer yet in the East it was little regarded and seldome vsed yea the Grecians in comparison of their tongue neglected it as barbarous Phi. Barbarous who euer called the Romanes Barbarians or the Latine tongue barbarous Theo. The Grecians disdained the Romane tongue as barbarous in respect of their own and did not sticke to number the Romanes amongst the barbarians Plautus the father of the latine toung translating a Comedie out of the Greeke into Latine sayeth Marcus vertit barbare Plautus translated it into the barbarous tongue of the Romanes Strabo confesseth that many diuiding the whole world into Greekes and Barbarians put the Romanes in the second rancke amongest the Barbarians which partition dured to the Apostles time and is inserted in the first beginning of his Epistle to the Romanes I am debter to the Greekes and to the Barbarians and therefore am readie to preach the Gospell to you also that are at Rome He is a debter to both and by that meanes to the Romanes the Romanes therefore by S. Pauls own mouth since they were not Grecians are numbred amongst the Barbarians Mary this is not materiall to our purpose the Grecians in their proud conceit thought euery Nation barbarous that wanted any thing of the daâ—â—tinesse of their speech delicatenes of their life where in deede no Nation may iustly be counted barbarous except it bee voide of all humane ciuilitie and societie which the Romanes then were not and infinite Nations nowe are not But S. Paul in this place which we reason of vseth barbarous for that which is not vnderstood of the hearer though the tongue in it selfe be neuer so learned or eloqueÌ„t Those are his very words in this chapter vttered for the better declaration of his meaning and the word beareth this sense euen among prophane writers as when the Poete that was a Romane and vanished into Pontus saide Barbarus hic ego sum quia non intelligor vlli I am here a barbarian because no man vnderstandeth what I speake Euen so the Grecians and Hebricians by Sainct Pauls resolution are barbariaÌ„s to him that knoweth not what they say Phi. You shall neuer induce mee to thinke that S. Paul spake of any of those three tongues which were after a sort sanctifâ—â—d in our Sauiours crosse Theo. What you will bee ledde to wee greatly passe not the Scriptures depend not on your dreames wee search for the sense of Sainct Paules wordes which being generall may not be restrained to what you list without some surer authoritie than your owne There are saith the Apostle for example sake so many kindes of tongues in the world and none of them is without sounde or signification Yet if I know not the vertue of the voice I shal bee barbarous to him that speaketh in any of them and he that speaketh shall be barbarous to me There are so many kinds of voices in the world That is saith Chrysostom so many tongues languages to wit the Scythian Thracian Romane Persian Mauritanian Indian Egyptian and of thowsand other nations besides these Therefore if I know not the power of the voice I shall be barbarous to him that speaketh Neither would I haue you thinke it to come to passe in vs onely you may see the like in all And concluding him that praied in latine if he vnderstood not his owne speech to bee barbarous to himselfe by this very rule of the Scripture he saith If a man should presently speake in the Persian tongue or in any other strange tongue and not vnderstand what he speaketh he shall be barbarous euen to himselfe not only to an other that knew not the power of the language There were at the first many that praied and gaue a sound with the voice vsing the Persian or Romane tongue which vnderstood not what they said The Apostle therefore hence teacheth that our tongue ought to speake and our minde withal vnderstand the wordes Which except we do there must of necessity follow a confusion S. Ambrose exemplifieth the Apostles discourse in none other tongues but in the Greeke and Hebrew If I pray with the tongue my spirite praieth but mine vnderstanding is without fruite It is manifest that the mind of man is ignorant when he speaketh with a toung which he vnderstandeth not as latine men vse to sing Greeke delighted with the sound of the wordes but not knowing what they say And shewing who they were that the Apostle reproueth in this whole chapter he saith Hij ex Hebraeis erant qui aliquando Syra lingua plerumque Hebraea intractatibus aut oblationibus vtebantur ad commendationeÌ„ They were Hebrewes who to commend theÌ„selues vsed somtimes the Syrike most times the Hebrew tongue in their Sermons and prayers at the oblation Haymo likewise bringeth the Greeke Hebrew tongues to declare the Apostles meaning If I know not the power or vnderstaÌ„ding of the voice which I heare I shal be barbarous to him that speaketh he that speaketh shal be barbarous to me For example I am a Grecian thou an Hebrew if I speak to thee in Greeke I shall seeme barbarous Likewise if thou speake to mee in Hebrew thou shalt seeme barbarous And that as well in praying as preaching An idiot is hee that knoweth that onely tongue wherein he was borne and bred If such an one therefore stand by thee whiles thou dost solemnly celebrate the mysterie of the Masse or make a sermon or giue a blessing how shall he say Amen at thy blessing wheÌ„ he knoweth not what thou sayest for so much as he vnderstanding none but his mother tongue can not tell what thou speakest in that strange and barbarous tongue barbarous not in it selfe but in respect of him that vnderstandeth it not You say the Apostle by strange tongues meaneth not the latin Greeke or Hebrue S. Chrysostom and S. Ambrose do verifie the Apostles words of those toungs namelie and chiefly yea S. Ambrose saith the occasion of all this offence were certain Iewes that in their prayers at the Lords table and exhortations to the people to shewe them selues vsed for the most part the Hebrew tongue They affirme that which you denie and they deny that which you affirme Surely you or they must needs be fouly deceiued Phi. That S. Paul speaketh not of the Church seruice is prooued by inuincible arguments It is euident that the Corinthians had their seruice in Greeke at this same time and it was not done in these miraculous tongues Nothing is meant then of the Church
Pastours and prophetes of the primatiue church in their publike praiers and exhortations and called it a confusion and resembled it to our babling in the church at this day which you thinke to be very disordered Phi. I see no proofe that the Pastours of the Church in the Apostles time made their publike prayers as you say by miraculous instinct of the spirite Theoph. Doe but open your eyes when you reade this chapter and you can not choose but see it Both this and the twelfth chapter treate wholy of the gifts of the spirite Where you finde that to one was giuen by the spirit the word of wisedome to an other the word of knowledge to an other fayth to an other giftes of healing by the same spirite to an other operation of wonders to an other prophesie to an other discerning of spirites to an other diuersities of toungs to an other interpretation of toungs Phi. Here is not the gift of praier numbred amongest them Theo. But in the fourteenth it is where shewing them how they should behaue themselues in the Church when the congregation was assembled he laieth this downe as a rule for them to follow I will pray with thee spirite but I will pray with the vnderstanding also I will sing with the spirite but I will sing with the vnderstanding also Else when thou blessest with the spirite how shal he that occupieth the room of the simple or common person say Amen at the giuing of thanks seeing he knoweth not what thou saiest To pray sing and blesse with the spirite in this place can bee nothing else but to be guided and led by the spirit in their praiers Psalmes thanks as they were in their doctrines interpretations exhortations which was by miracle on the suddain not by learning or study This was done in the church whē al the faithful were present to these praiers psalms thāksgiuings the people were to say Amen as the Apostle sheweth which is the ende signe and proofe of publike prayer among christians What is church seruice if this be not or what other Seruice could the Church haue besides hearing the word and offering their common supplications vnto God by the mouth of one man the rest vnderstanding what he said and confirming his praier with saying Amen Phi. The Apostle speaketh of one man supplying the place of the vulgar and you stretch it to the whole people Theo. If the praiers of the Church concerned some of the people and not all you might make that obiection with some shew but now it hath no color when S. Paul asketh How shal the simple man say Amen he meaneth not this or that man but any or euery And so the indefinite signifieth generally throughout the Scripture Blessed is the man to whom the Lord imputeth no sinne that is Blessed is euery man to whom the Lord imputeth no sin Cursed be the man that obserueth not all the workes of the Law to doe them that is by S. Pauls owne exposition Cursed is euery man that continueth not in all things which are written in the booke of the Lawe to doe them The whole Scripture is full of the like And therefore Chrysostome noteth Indoctum promiscuam plebem vocat monstratque non leue incommodum esse si Amen dicere non possit The vnlearned he calleth the vulgar people and declareth it to be no smale inconuenience if they cannot say Amen Phi. I see they did praie sing and blesse with the spirite and that the people said Amen but had they no speciall nor vsuall praiers reserued for the ministration of the Sacrament which might not be varied Theo. You think belike they had your Introite Grail Tract Sequēce Offertorie Secrets Postcommunion Pax and Ite missa est Phi. Sure they had some precise forme of seruice though we know it not Theo. And since you knowe it not why should you make it the anker hold of all your exposition vpon S. Paul Phi. Had they no order for their seruice Theo. What a stirre here is for that which the Apostles neuer did Had they set an order for the seruice of the Church durst any man after haue broken it Phi. S. Iames masse is yet extant Theo. And so are a number of other foolish forgeries as wel as that Phi. Do you think it forged Theo. Which of S. Iames masses do you meane Phi. There are not so many that you should aske which Theo. Two there are vnder his name the one nothing like the other yet both fathered vpō him Phi. We haue but one and that set in order of church seruice with mutual praiers and answers for Priest and People very perfectly Theo. And the other you shall find in the eight booke of Clemens Apostolike constitutions where the fourteene Apostles for so you haue increased their number as well as their constitutions take precise order what praiers answers and actions shal be vsed at the mysticall sacrifice their first prescription being this that Two Deacons shal be on both sides of the altar with tuffs of pecocks tails in their hands to driue away gnats left they light in the Chalice a graue consideration for Christs Apostles to meete together to make flappes to catch flies Phi. That I graunt is a matter of smal respect but yet not enough to refute the booke Theo. It is sufficiently refuted in that neither the Church of Christ nor your selues euer esteemed it Had this book beene Authentik it must needs haue beene taken into the canon of the Scriptures For if that which any one Apostle wrate be Canonical much more that which al the Apostles with common consent decreed and ordered Againe had the Apostles prescribed an exact fourme of diuine seruice for the Lords table what man would haue altered it or what Church refused it How would either Basill or Chrysostome haue presumed to make newe formes of Church seruice if those liturgies be theirs not rather forced on thē as this is on the first chiefe Apostles of Christ Why did the Latine Church and the Church of Rome her selfe neglect that seruice if it were Apostolike and preferre the praiers of one Scholasticus as worthier to be said ouer the deuine mysteries the maker being so obscure a man that his name is not knowen in the church of god why were the Bishops of Rome 600. yeares vpward patching piecing the masse before they brought it to any setled forme as your own fellowes confesse and yet then Rome had one forme of seruice Millan an other which they keepe at this day Fraunce a thirde Why did Gregorie when he was consulted by Augustine the monke what forme of diuine seruice he should commēd to the Saxons wil him to bind himselfe neither to Rome nor to any church els but to take from euery place that which he liked best and deliuer that vnto the English To
saluation Your memory did not serue you to ioyn Mattins Euensong and Dirges to your Masse which you might haue doone with as good reason and as much trueth otherwise we had had al the Papists in Christendom promoted by one sentence of your Testament to so suddaine and perfect knowledge that they were able to vnderstand al your Latine seruice That you found would seeme a wonder in the eyes of all men learned and vnlearned and therefore you restraine the vnderstanding first to the Masse then to the ceremonies of the masse then to the sense of these ceremonies as when to stand when to kneele when to confesse when to adore when to come when to depart and all this no farther than may suffice for saluation and not in al of them but almost in euery Catholike or to say the trueth you know not in whom Surely this is a deepe insight that al your Catholikâ— if they be not learned haue in your masse to confesse if they could tell what when they see the Clerk kneele by the Priests side to adore when they see the host and chalice ouer the Priests head to stand when the Priest chaungeth his deske from one end of the altar to an other if they chauÌ„ce too see him to kneele when the sauÌ„ce bel ringeth once a yeare to come to receiue when masse is done and the priest in his Albe at other tunes to depart when he whippeth off his vestiment This is the best cunning that your formallest and forwardest Catholikes haue if they be not learned in the Latine tongue The rude simple people of your side they do as they see their neighbours and that is all the skil they haue in your ceremonies as for answering and saying Amen they must pray for those that can your parish Clerke can keepe his kewe by often vse otherwise neither he nor the most of your Priests vnderstand what they say This is all the edification your masse bringeth to the vnlearned hearers if this suffice for saluation S. Paul was out of the way to prefer fiue words spoken in the church with vnderstanding before ten thousand in a strange and vnknowen language Phi. If the people say Amen it is enough Theo. If they know not what is said they may not say Amen Phi. That is your error Theo. We are content to hold that error so long as we haue the precise words of S. Paul for it How shal he that supplieth the room of the vnlearned say AmeÌ„ seeing he knoweth not what thou saist It is not enough to mark the gestures of him that saith masse nor to heare the saunce bel ring nor to follow the Quire when they sing Amen the people must know what is said before they may giue their consents and therfore except they vnderstand the praiers of the Church well they may kneele and stand come and goe as often as they liâ—t but Amen by S. Pauls Rule they may not answere Phi. They could not in those daies answere Amen so wel as our hearers can for that they had no such rites to direct them when to say Amen as we haue Theo. As though it had beene an hard matter for the Apostle to haue willed the speaker to hold vp his finger or giue some other signe at the end of his praier and all the people to say Amen saue that the holy Ghost would prescribe not gestures for men to gaze at as on stages but words for them to heare and vnderstand that the heart might be ioyned with the lips in praying vnto God and perceiue the trueth of that which was spoken afore the tongue pronounced Amen Phi. I tell you it is not necessarie to vnderstand our praiers Theo. I tell you that if Satan himselfe were clothed in a friers weede he could not lay a fairer foundation for impietie and Apostasie than this is Phi. Neuer think to fray vs with words we be no children nor fooles Theo. If you were your sinne were the lesse but nowe you are without excuse It is the commaundement of God it is the Apostles Doctrine it is our Christian dutie without it the praiers which we make be fruitlesse vaine and barbarous and yet you say it is not necessarie S. Paul hauing prescribed this Rule to the Churches of Corinth that nothing should be doone at their meetings neither in preaching nor praying but that which might profite edifie euen the vulgar and simpler sort addeth If any man think himselfe to be spirituall let him acknowledge that the things which I write vnto you are the commandements of the Lord. The Ephesians he teacheth to be filled with the spirit and to sing and tune Psalmes in their harts to the Lord. Now the heart doth not sing except it vnderstand For the sound or voice of the hart is vnderstanding as S. Augustine very wel obserueth coÌ„menting vpon the psalmes of Dauid Beatus populus qui intelligit iubilationem Curramus ergo ad hanc beà titudinem intelligamus iubilationeÌ„ non eam sine intellectu fundamus Blessed is the people that vnderstand what they sing Let vs hasten to this blessednes let vs vnderstand what we sing let vs not poure forth songs that we vnderstand not To what purpose is it to sing and not to vnderstand what we sing that our voice should chant it not our heart Sonus enim cordis est intellectus The sounde or tune of the heart is vnderstanding And shewing that this is not only a Christian dutie which is a sufficient necessitie but euen the plain condition of our Creation that wee bee not like the beasts which sing they know not what he saith Hauing besought the Lord by this Psalm that he would clense vs from our secret faults We ought to vnderstand what this meaneth Vt humana ratione non quasi auium voce cantemus that we may sing with reason as men and not chatter like birdes For Owsels Parrets Crowes Pies and such other birds are often taught by men to sound that they know not marie to know what they sing is by Gods wil giuen not to birds but vnto men Therefore deere brethren that which we haue soung with one consent of voice we ought to know perceiue with a cleare heart So Chrysostome I will pray with the spirit saith Paul but I will pray also with vnderstanding I wil sing with the spirite but I wil sing also with vnderstanding Heereby the Apostle teacheth that we ought in our praiers to speake with our tongue and with all to haue our minds vnderstand what is spoken And Ambrose If the end of your meaning be to edifie the Church such things ought to be spoken in your prayers and blessings as the hearers may vnderstand For what profite commeth by thisâ— that any man should speak in a language which he alone vnderstandeth and he that heareth is no whit the better for it Therefore such an
one must keepe silence in the church and let them speake that may profite the hearers Idlely is that spoken which is not vnderstoode saith Cassiodorus Non solum cantantes sed etiam intelligentes Psallere debemus Nemo enim Sapienter quicquam facit quod non intelligit We ought to sing the psalms not only with tune of voice but also with vnderstanding of heart For no man doth any thing wifely which he vnderstandeth not The Bishops of Fraunce and Germanie assembled in Councel at Aquisgraine 816 yeres after Christ vnder Ludouike the Godly confesse the wordes of S. Paul bind vs to vnderstand the Psalmes which we sing in the Church Those that sing to the Lorde in his Church ought to haue their vnderstanding goe with their voice that the words of the Apostle may be verified I will sing with the spirit but I will also sing with vnderstanding And Let such be appointed in the Church to read sing that with the sweetnes of their reading and singing can affect the learned and instruct the vnlearned and let them seeke rather the edification of the people than the popular and vaine ostentation of their voices These Catholike fathers affirme the people ought to vnderstand the psalms and praiers of the church you say they need not Betweene these two doctrines there is asmuch difference as betweene daylight and darknes and yet you will be Catholiks whosoeuer say nay yea God himselfe commaundeth that neither exhortation nor supplication be made in the church but such as may edifie the hearers and bee vnderstood of the people you both doe and teach the contrary and yet you would be christians Phi. The simple sort can not vnderstand all Psalmes nor scarce the learned no though they be translated or read in knowen tongues men must not cease to vse them for all that when they are knowen to containe Gods holy praises Theo. Are you hired to betray your own follie or is the force of trueth so great that minding to conuince vs you confute your selues The simple vnderstand not all Psalmes nor scarce the learned wee thinke you speake right yet must not men cease to vse theÌ„ since they containe the prayses of God as true as the Gospell but now Sirs if the learned must vse them wheÌ„ they scarce vnderstand them why may not the simple heare them though they conceiue not al the mysteries of them Phi. As good not heare them as not vnderstand them Theo. All parts of the Psalmes they doe not vnderstand yet some they doe Why then doe you barre them from all since you dare not â—uouch them to bee ignorant of all Againe by continuall hearing them read alleaged and expounded in the Church they that are willing may easily increase their knowledge why then doe you cut the people not onely from that they knowe but also from that they might knowe from the meanes whereby to learne which is the high way to keepe them in ignorance the mother of all errors Phi. They will learne but litle God knoweth Theo. Graunt they would learne nothing yet are you bound to follow that meanes which God hath left to instruct them if their dulnes and peruersenes of heart be such that they will not learne the fault is theirs not yours their blood shal be on their own heads you are discharged where nowe by taking the comfort and instruction of their prayers from them you force them to neglect al as neuer likely to come by the knowledge of any one word and confirme them in their blindnes to your owne destruction and their imminent daunger if God bee not the more graâ—ious to them Phi. Prayers are not made to teache or increase knowledge but their speciall vse is to offer our heartes desires and wants to God and this euery catholike doeth for his condition whether hee vnderstande the woordes of his prayers or no. Theoph. Who tolde you that praiers are not made to teach or increase our knowledge The Psalmes of Dauid what are they but prayers and prayses offered vnto God and yet what Christian was euer so voyde of sense as to say they doe not teach nor increase knowledge or that they were not left vs to this ende and purpose that they shoulde teach and instruct vs in thinges pertaining to our saluation The prayers of the Godly throughout the scriptures though they were vttered in their wants and necessities yet were they written for our instruction And if you were not as destitute of grace as you be of truth you woulde soone perceiue that religious and Godly prayers doe mightily teach both learned vnlearned their dueties to God and his mercies to them Phi. In our prayers wee speake to God and not to men and that leadeth vs to â—ay they were not made to teach or increase knowledge Theo. The end of prayer in him that maketh it is to aske at Gods handes that he lacketh and to render thankes vnto God for that hee hath receiued but that the publike prayers of the Church do not first teach vs howe to pray and next instruct vs in many and most points of truth what to beleeue and confesse vnto God were meeter for Turkes and Infidels to defend than for such as you would seeme to be I meane both learned and Christian men Howbeit the pitch of our question is this whether they may be called prayers which wee make with our mouthes and not with our heartes and if they may not whether our heartes can pray without vnderstanding These be the matters that here we striue for and of these the first is prooued by the whole course of the Scriptures the seconde as well by the nature of man as by the word of God That God reiecteth the mouth without the heart as hypocrisie and no pietie our Sauiour telleth you when he saith O hypocrites Esay prophesied well of you in saying this people draweth neere to me with their mouth and honoureth me with the lippes but their heart is farre from me That our heart ioyneth not with our mouth when our vnderstanding wanteth is euident not onely by the scriptures which take the heart of man for his vnderstanding but by the education of our nature Dauid resembling those meÌ„ that haue not vnderstanding what they say or doe to the horse and Mule and â—usten allowing them when they pray they knowe not what no better place than among parrets and pies which is no place for men much lesse for those that would seeme to serue and honour God And what can be plainer than that vnderstanding is the proper action and first motion of mans heart which wanting in any thing that he doeth or sayeth his heart is also wanting since not an heart but an vnderstanding heart doeth make the difference betwixt man and beast Philand That is if they vnderstande not their owne woordes when they pray but they may bee ignorant of the
The faith of our fathers is not alwaies trueth 537 God forbiddeth vs to follow the steppes of our fathers 538 The godly confessed their fathers did erre 539 All humane lawes barres giue place to God 540 The prince might make lawes for trueth maugre the Pope 541 Princes haue setled religion without Councels 542 Christian religion receiued vpon the direction of a lay man 543 Trueth authorised the Apostles against Priests Princes 544 Railing on Princes is a capitall crime 545 The contents of the fourth part No point of Poperie Catholike 546. What is truely CATHOLIKE 547 The worshipping of Images is not Catholike 547 The west Church against the worshipping of Images 548 Corruption to help the credite of the second Nicen councell 549 The worshipping of Images detested in the Church of Christ as Heresie 550 The â—mage of God made with hands may not be worshipped 552 The Iewes Gentiles did erect their Images vnto God 553 The heathen adored their stocks as the Images of God 554 The Image of man set vp vnto God is an Idoll 556 The wodden Image of Christ may not be worshipped 557 The honour done to a wodden Image is not done to Christ. 559 Adoration of Images no Apostolick tradition 562 S. Basill forged to make for adoration of Images 563 The shamefull forgeries and falsities of the second Nicene councell 564 Both Scriptures and fathers wickedly abused by the second Nicene Councâ—l 565 The second Nicene Councel conuincing it selfe of forgerie 566 What an Idole is 567 A wrong seruice of God is Idolatrie 568 The Church of Rome giueth diuine honour vnto Images 569 Christs honour may not be giuen to Images 570 The hauing of Images is not Catholike 572 Athanasius palpablie forged in the second Nicene Councell 574 The Church next to the Apostles reiected Images 574 Images came first from Heathens vnto Christians 575 Images reiected by godly Bishops 576. No corporall submission may be giuen to Images 577 The Nicene Bishops play the sophists in decreeing adoration vnto Images 577 The wodden crosse of Christ may not be adored 578 Not one word in scripture for adoration of Images 580 No point of faith may be built on traditions 581 No point of faith beleeued without Scripture 582 Baptizing of Infants is a consequent of the Scriptures 583 It may be a tradition yet grounded on the Scriptures 584 Baptisme of InfaÌ„ts prooued needfull by the Scriptures 585 Rebaptization repugnant to the Scriptures by S. Augustines iudgement 588 The perpetuall virginitie of Marie the Mother of Christ. 589 The Godhead of the holy ghost expressed in the Scriptures 590 His proceeding from the father and the sonne confirmed by the Scriptures 592 Expresse scripture is the sense and not the syllables 593 Fathers wrested to speake against the scriptures 594 The Popish faith is their owne traditioÌ„ against the scriptures 597 Their adoration of images is a late and wicked inuenâ—ion of their schooles 598 Images adored in the Church of Rome with diuine honour 600 Images reiected by Catholike Bishops 601 S. Austen condemneth Images as vnprofitable signes 602 Custome without trueth is but the antiquitie of error 603 Praier in an vnknowen toung prohibited by Saint Paul in Gods name 604 S. Paul speaketh of vnknoweÌ„ touÌ„gs 606 An vnknowen toung cannot edifie 607 Diuine seruice in a knowen toung cannot choose but edifie 608 S. Paul speaketh of three learned toungs as wel as of others 610 S. Paul speaketh of the Hebrew Greeke and Latine as well as of other tongues 611 S. Pauls wordes comprise both Church seruice sermons 612 Saint Paul 1. Cor. 14. speaketh of Church seruice 613 The Church vnder the Apostles had no set order of diuine seruice 614 The Church vnder the Apostles did sing blesse and pray by the gyft of the spirite 615 The Apostle had no certaine praiers or seruice 616 The Iesuits halting reasons that S. Paul did not speak of the church Seruice 616 S. Paul to the Corinthians speaketh of Church seruice 620 No man may say AMEN to that he vnderstandeth not 624 Necessary to vnderstand our praiers 625 The primatiue Church had neuer her praiers and seruice in an vnknowen tongue 627 The latine seruice was vnderstood in the Countries where it was 629 Alleluia is vsed in all tongues aswell barbarous as others 630 The Britans had no latine seruice 632 Alleluia soung at the plough 632 The Iesuits manner of alleaging impertiment authorities 633 Bede doth not say that the people of this Realme had the latine seruice in his time 634 The prayers of the primatiue Church were common to all the people 636 The Masse book proueth that the people should vnderstand the Priest 639 The Priest needeth no speach in his praiers but to edifie the hearers 640 Praier is as acceptable to God in a barbarous as in a learned touÌ„g 642 Seruice in an vnknowen tongue is no custome of the vniuersall Church 643 The primatiue church had her seruice in such tongues as the people vnderstood 644 The primatiue church allowed praiers in barbarous tounges Whether side commeth nearest to christs institution 650 S. Paul by the Lords supper meaneth the sacrament 651 The name Masse whence it first came 655 We doe not swarue from christes institution 657 Christ did blesse with the mouth and not with the finger 658 Blessing in the scriptures applied to diuerse and sundrie thinges 659 To doe any thing vpon or ouer the bread is not needefull 660 The rehearsall of christs wordes maketh a sacrament 661 We shew our purpose at the Lords table by our words and deedes 662 The worde beleeued maketh the Sacrament 664 Vnlâ—uened bread is not of the substance of the Sacrament 664 Water is no part of Christs institution 663. 670 Water is not necessarie in the Lordes cup euen by the confession of their own schooles 668 No water mingled whiles the Apostles liued 672 The Masse an open profanation of Christs institution 673 Priuate Masse euerieth all that christ did or said at his last Supper 674 Christ did not sacrifice himselfe at his last supper 676 The Primatiue church had no priuate Masse 678 The Lords supper ought to be coÌ„mon 679 The Lords cup was deliuered to the people as well as the bread 679 Christs precept for the cup extendeth as well to the people as to the Priest 680 In the primatiue church the lords cup was common to all 682 The causes for which the church of Rome changed christs institution 683 The auncient church of Rome very vehement against half communions 684 Forbearing the Lords cuppe condemned in laymen as sacrilege 685 Sacrilege in the Priest can be no religion in the people 686 The Iesuits proofes for their sacrifice 687 How the fathers call the Lordes supper a sacrifice 688 Their own Masse booke contradicteth their sacrifice 690 The Lords death is the sacrfice of the Lords supper 691 A memoriall of christs passion is our daily sacrifice 692 The elder sort of Schoolemen knew not their
Els when thou blessest with the spirit how shal he that occupieth the roume of the vnlearned say Amen at thy giuing of thaÌ„ks seeing he knoweth not what thou saiest Thou verilie giuest thanks wel but the other is not edified I had rather in the Church to speak fiue words with mine vnderstanding thaâ— I might also instruct others thaÌ„ ten thousand words in an vnknown toung When ye come together let al things be done to edification If any man speake in an vnknowen tongue let one interprete but if there be no interpreter let him keep silence in the church God is not the author of confusion but of peace so I teach in al the Churches of the saintes If any man seeme to be a Prophet or to be spiritual let him vnderstand that the things which I write vnto you are the commaundemeÌ„ts of the Lord. Thus farre S. Paul which I rehearse at large that it may lie for the ground of the whole dispute that shall follow What answer you to this commaundement of God and doctrine of his Apostle Phi. No one place of scripture is more diuersly or easilie answered than this First you your traÌ„slatioÌ„s corrupt this chapter by putting your own words to y Apostles text For where he sayth toÌ„gue you ad strange vnknowen not vnderstood which are not in S. Paul SecoÌ„dly you misconster the whole passage of S. Paul for by edifying yâ— church vnderstanding the power of the voice he meaneth not y bare significatioÌ„ of yâ— words only but the increase of fayth true knowledge goodlife in that sense we say Our forefathers were as much edified with the latine seruice that is as wâ—se as faythful as deuout as fearful to breake Gods Lawes as likely to be saued as we are with all our tongues translations and English praiers Thirdly by strange tongues the Apostle meaneth not the Latin Greeke or Hebrew Fourthly that he speaketh not of the Churches seruice is proued by inuincible arguments Fifthly the Catholike people are taught the contents of their praiers and vnderstand euerie Ceremonie can behaue them selues accordingly Sixtly it is not necessarie to vnderstand our prayers Lastly the seruice hath been alwaies in Latin throughout the west Church And to dispute thereof as though it were not to be done since the whole Church doth practise obserue it throughout the wordle is most insolent madnes as S. Augustine saith in 118. epistle I sawe by your lookes you thought we could not answer it Theo. I knew you had stoare of answers such as they be but from such interpreters God defend vs and all that be his Phi. Speake to the matter let the men alone Theoph. Then to the matter this is a right paterne of your Rhemish annotations stuffed with impertinent allegations and impudent sophistications of purpose to defeate frustrate the scriptures that are against you Phi. You fall to railing when you faint in reasoning Theo. How can we but kindle wheÌ„ we see you fray the people of God from the sweete wholesom foode of their soules and delude them with your huskes and hogwash Phi. First discharge your selues of your shameful adding to the Scriptures and then you may the better examine our answers Theoph. To the text of the holie Ghost we adde not onely for the better conceauing of the sense in an other print we enterpose that speciall limitation of the word tongue which the drift of the whole chapter necessarily enforceth which the Apostle himself directly expresseth and the learned and ancieÌ„t fathers expounding this place doe euerywhere insert as the right construction of the scripture S. Paul did not speake either of tongues in generall or of such tongues as were knowen and well vnderstoode of the Corinthians nothing can be more absurd nor more against sense and nature thaÌ„ so to applie the Apostles reasons but of such tongues as were vnknowen and not vnderstood of the hearers and in that case his assertions are verie true and his illations very strong which otherwise are ridiculous if not monsterous For who well in his wits will make the Apostle speake so falsly and absurdly as to say He that speaketh a knowne tongue speaketh not vnto men but vnto God If I come to you speaking with knowne tongues what shall I profite you He that speaketh a knowne language edifieth but himselfe when thou blessest with the spirit and in a knowne tongue howe shall hee that is vnlearned say Amen These speaches haue neither ryme nor reason in them but turne them to the coÌ„trary and limit them to an vnknowne tongue and then they be very substantiall and sensible assertions And so S. Paul in that chapter very often expoundeth himselfe For these be his owne additions Howe shal it be vnderstoode what is spoken Except I knowe the power of the speach I shal bee barbarous to him that speaketh He knoweth not what thou saiest And citing a place of the Prophet Esay to confirme his intent he saith by men of other tongues and of other languages will I speake to this people What is an other tongue and another language but in manifest termes a strange tongue and a strange language Chrysostom and Ambrose commenting vpon this chapter deliuer S. Pauls minde in those very words which we do Si peregrina lingua gratias agas If thou giue thanks in a STRANGE tongue saith Chrysostome the common man can not answere Amen And speaking in S. Pauls person Linguas inutiles esse dico quantisper sint ignotae I say tongues are vnprofitable so long as they are VNKNOWNE Nam quae vtilitas ex voce non intellecta potest esse For what profit can there come by a speach that is NOT VNDERSTOOD Ambrose like wise Hoc est quod dicit qui loquitur incognita lingua Deo loquitur This is it the Apostle saith he that speaketh in AN VNKNOWNE TOVNG speaketh vnto God and not vnto men And againe Docere nemo poterit nisi intelligatur No man can instruct except he be vnderstood And therefore the Apostle warneth saith he that they should not seeme barbarous ech to other by AN VNKNOWN TOVNG Non competit fidelibus audire linguas quas non intelligunt sed infidelibus It is not for the faithful to heare tongues which they vnderstand not but for infidels Qui loquitur linqua subaudis incognita peregrina He that speaketh with a tongue thou must vnderstand saith Haymo an vnknowne and strange tongue And againe Si orem lingua subaudis incognita If I pray with a tongue to wit an vnknowne tongue the vnderstanding of my soule is without any profit because I vnderstand not what I speake And so S. Augustin disputing of this place saith Quia lingua id est membro
seruice Againe the publike Seruice had but one language in this exercise they spake in many tongues In the the publike Seruice euery man had not his owne special tongue his special interpretation speciall Reuelation proper Psalmes but in this they had Againe the publike Seruice had in it the ministration of the holy Sacrament principally which was not done in this time of conference For into this exercise were admitted Catechumens and Infidels and whosoeuer would in this women before S. Pauls order did speake and prophesie so did they neuer in the ministration of the Sacrament With many other plaine differences that by no meanes the Apostles wordes can be rightly and truely applied to the Corinthians Seruice then or ours now Therefore it is either great ignorance of the Protestants or great guilefulnesse so vntruely and peruersly to apply them Theo. Before I reply let me aske you a question Phi. With a good will Theo. Are you not a Priest Phi. I am or I should be Theo. I will not oppose you after what order Aarons being abolished Melchizedecks not imparted to any mortal man But by vertue of your priesthood are you not bound to catechise as wel as to baptize that is to preach the word as wel as to minister the sacraments Phi. So we do as time and place require Theo. If I should vrge you that you your felowes neuer preach because euery holyday sunday you say Masse massing is apparently no preaching what would you answer Phi. I would answer that you made a very childish foolish argument For though the one be not the other yet we may do both at one time in one place successiuely before wee depart And if you doubt of this the meanest parish clarke in Christendome may be your master Theo. You pul not me but your self by the nose Philander and mark it not Your inuincible arguments wherby you would proue that S. Paul in this whole Chapter spake nothing of the Church seruice in Corinth are such ridiculous toyes of all the worlde as this which I brought for example to trie your patience with Phi. You shall not defeate the force of our reasons with such a iest Theo. Neither shall you delude the Apostles doctrine with such a shift The Church of Corinth had then as al other Churches nowe haue or should haue both praying preaching annexed and adioyned to the ministration of the Lords supper Both these yet are euer were the meanes which God ordained to prepare vs to be fit ghests for that Table Howe shal they saith the Apostle call on him in whom they haue not beleeued and how shall they beleeue in him of whom they haue not heard how shall they heare without a Preacher Hearing is the nurce of faith and faith is the fountaine of praier without praier wee may not approach to God nor to the Sacrament of thankesgiuing which by the very name it beareth putteth vs in mind what duty we must yeeld to God when we are partakers of it By this it is euident that teaching in the church of God doth not exclude praiing but is rather the mean that God hath appointed to direct incite the minds of the faithfull to make their praiers vnto him in such sort as they ought when they are gathered togither in Christs name to serue God the father in the spirit of his sonne And so the holy Ghost describeth the church that was at Ierusalem vpon the first spredding of the Gospel from whence we must take the forme of Apostolik churches They continued saith the Scripture in the Apostles doctrine and fellowship and breaking of bread and praiers noting doctrine prayers brotherly communion at the Lords table to be the publike exercises of christians in their assemblies where the Apostles themselues were present in their persons to guide gouerne those meetings Phi. You come not yet to the point Theo. I will not long be from it These praiers exhortations and instructions which the faithfull had in their assemblies were they not partes of the seruice which they yeelded to God Phi. Yees but not of the church seruice Theo. What seruice was there in the church besides this that I mention Phi. The ministration of the Sacrament Theo. If you meane the order and fashion of administring the Sacrament Saint Paul receiued that of the Lord and deliuered it to the church of Corinth in such manner and forme as we finde expressed not many leaues before in the 11. of this Epistle But there is no church seruice prescribed or named onely the elemēts and actions of the Lordes supper are particularly remembred and committed to the church as her chiefest iewell in her husbandes absence vntill hee come Phi. Thinke you they had no set Rites Collectes nor praiers deliuered them from the Apostles for that holy action Theo. You presume they had and vppon that false imagination you ground the most part of your headlesse argumentes that the Apostle speaketh not of the Church seruice Phi. Had they no speciall forme of prayer prescribed in their churches whiles the Apostles liued Theo. Had they say you Phi. Else they had nothing but confusion in their churches Theo. Blaspheme not so fast The power of the holy Ghost miraculously supplying all wantes and inspiring the Pastours and Elders in euery Church howe to pray was no confusion Phi. Do you thinke they changed their prayers in euery place and at euery meeting as pleased the minister Theo. You may well perceiue by the Apostles wordes that they had neither Sermons nor Seruice prefixed nor limited in his time but when the Church came togither the Elders and Ministers instructed the people and made their prayers by inspiration Phi. I knowe they did so but this was not the Church Seruice Theo. This was all the church Seruice they had to which they added the celebration of the Lordes supper but without any setled or prefined order of praier except it were he Lords praier which they obserued in all places as comming from the mouth of Christ himselfe their Soueraigne Lord and Master Phi. Mary Sir that were euen such seruice as you haue at this day where euery blind Minister bableth what he listeth Theo. Iest not at God except you wil be Iulian. Phi. I iest at your disorder which you would seeme to deriue frō the Primatiue Church of the Apostles Theo. In deede wee haue not so many turnes and touches bowtes and becks as you haue in your Masses other disorder in our Seruice I know none vnlesse it bee that wee doe not swinge the Censers rince the chalice tosse the Masse-booke plaie with the host and sleepe at Memento as you doe with a number of like toyes throughout your seruice Phi. Doe not you nowe iest at our Seruice Theo. At your stage-like gestures I may without offence but you iested at the miraculous gift of the holy Ghost guiding the
knowledge and gift not only permitted but also desired to exhort the people and giue thanks to God in other mens charges Philand This might be but how proue you this was the fault which the Apostle reproued Theo. I need not proue that If this which I speake might easilie come to passe then your inuincible arguments be sensible follies corelude vtterly no such thing as you imagine Your argumeÌ„t cannot be impregnable til your consequent be ineuitable since so many cases may be put though your antecedent be admitted to repel your consequeÌ„t what wisedome was it to make such vaunt of your forces not onely before the victory but when you see your selues so voide of al good artillerie Phi. Againe the publike seruice had but one language in this exercise they speak with many tongues Theo. Againe you can neither verifie your antecedent nor iustifie your consequent Set order of publike seruice they had none in the Apostles time the Pastors and ministers praied by heart as the spirite of God guided them This gift of praier some turned to their owne prayse and ostentation when they were admitted to giue thanks to God in the congregation of the faithfull and made their prayers in such tongues as they preferred or would seeme endewed with though the people vnderstood them not for which attempt the Apostle controlleth them Phi. These are your conceiuements Theo. Were they no mans but mine your reasons are weake and euen contemptible which you proclaimed for inuincible but as you heard S. Ambrose did informe you that these men whom S. Paul here toucheth vsed sometimes the Syrian and most times the Hebrew tongue in tractatibus aut oblationibus in their discourses to the people or ministration of the Sacrament as they pleased Phi. In the publike seruice euery man had not his owne speciall tongue his speciall interpretation special reuelation proper Psalmes but in this they had Theophil In the publike seruice of the church the ministers and Elders which were many both trauelers and there dwellers had euery man his Psalme his instruction his tongue reuelation or interpretation as the spirite of grace thought it most expedient for the setting foorth of Gods glory and the edifieng of their faithes that were present and other order of diuine seruice in the Apostolike and primatiue church wee reade for certaintie of none besides the action of the Lordes supper which the Apostles and so no doubt their churches alwaies vsed in the end of their publik meetings but with not set prayers saue onely the Lordes prayer as Gregorie confesseth the rest of their prayers blessinges and thanksgiuinges were in euery place made by the gift of the holy Ghost inspiring such as were set to teach and gouerne the church And though you haue long since their time framed a Liturgie in Iames name wheron you seeme to ground all the cauils that here are vrged as inuincible arguments yet for so much as the church of Christ did not acknowledge it and the words of Gregory directly impugne it we return that home to the forge whence it came your arguments back to you as wanting both truth strength to beare out your cause Phi. The publike seruice had in it the administration of the holy Sacrament principally which was not done in the time of this conference Theo. Though the Lordes supper was not ministred at that instant when the Pastors people were intending for doctrine yet did it follow immediatly vpon this exercise finished and due thankes offered to God by the whole church for the redemption of the world in the blood of his sonne neither besides your bold and bare negatiue do we see any cause why the singing blessing and thanksgiuing which S. Paul speaketh of should not be vnderstood to be the prayers and Psalmes that were vsed before after and at the Lordes table this I am sure S. Paul willeth all thinges to be done to edification and all must containe the church seruice ministration of the Sacrament as wel as Psalms or any other exercises of the church So that if the special discourse did not touch the ministration of the Lords supper the general direction doeth comprise it so much the more because the whole church as wel the people as the Preachers as well women as men haue equall interest in the Lords supper to be thereat fed and thereby stirred to giue thanks to God for the richesse of his mercie in the death of Christ. And if you thinke that vnderstanding and consenting is more needful for the people in any other prayers than in those that are made at the Lordes Table you erre not of ignorance but of wilfulnesse and care not what you say so you may entertaine the simple with somewhat for the sauing of your credite Phi Into this exercise were admitted the Catechâ—mens and Infidels and whosoeuer would in this weomen before S. Pauls order did speake and prophesie so did they neuer in the ministration of the Sacrament With manie other plaine differences that by no meanes the Apostles wordes can be rightly and truely applied to the Corinthians Seruice then or ours nowe Theo. You should close vppe the matter with the strongest argument you haue and this is the weakest At their prophesies that was at their sermons and exhortations Infidels and nouices not yet baptized might bee at their mysteries they might not be but were sent away and the doores shut when the faithfull approached to the Lordes Table Hence you may conclude that euery hearer of the woorde may not bee partaker of the diuine mysteries but that the one did not presently followe the other in the Seruice of the Church or that S. Paul did not meane them both you shall neuer conclude yea rather the sending them away that might not bee present argueth that the rest which were left did foorthwith addresse them-selues to the participation of the Lordes Table and that all which was doone in the Church before both exhorting and praying was referred to this end to make them meete commers to that heauenlie banquet Phi. That may bee but S. Paul speaketh of the one and not of the other Theo. That you should prooue if you coulde tell howe Phi. We haue alreadie prooued it by inuincible argumentes Theo. Marie that you haue if blinde surmises and loose sequeles may stand for argumentes otherwise what haue you saide that hath any shewe of proofe I will not saie of inuincible proofe Your maine foundation is a dreame of your owne that the Church of Corinth had a prescribed number and order of prayers pronounced by some one Chaplin that sayde his lesson within booke and might not goe one line besides his Missale for any good This you imagine was their Church Seruice all other prayers Psalmes blessings and thankes-giuings though they were vsed openly in the congregation and the whole people bound to say Amen you will not haue to
ab illis fiunt omnes vnam dicunt orationem For the priest and the people make their praiers in common and they all vtter the same wordes in their petitions to God Againe when we haue excluded them out of the church that may not be partakers of the holy table and fall a fresh to prayer we all prostrate our selues togither and all rise vp togither When peace is to be imparted wee all salute one an other In the very same dreadfull mysteries the priest prayeth for the people and the people pray for the priest For their answere And with the spirit hath none other meaning Ea quae sunt Eucharistia id est gratiarum actionis communia sunt omnia The prayers of the Eucharist that is of the thankesgiuing at the Lordes table are all common For the priest doeth not onely giue thankes but all the people Out of the which number were none excepted neither men women nor children as Basill shortly but fully decribeth the sound of the whole church praying togither If the sea bee good and beautifull in the sight of God how much more beawtifull is such an assemblie of the church as we haue here in which the mingled souÌ„d of men women and children making their common prayers ascendeth vnto our God as the noise of waues beating against the bankes The Latine church obserued the same as Iustinus reporting the order of the christian assemblies in his time witnesseth On the day which is called sunday all that are in townes or villages meete togither in one place where the writinges of the Apostles and Prophetes are read as the hower permitteth vs when the reader ceaseth the pastour warneth and exhorteth vs to imitate the good thinges that haue beene read vnto vs Then rise wee all and iointly make our prayers after the which ended bread and wine with water are brought to the place he that is chiefe among vs maketh his prayers and giueth thankes in the best manner hee can Perfectis precibus gratiarum actione populus omnis qui adest benedicit dicens Amen At the end of his prayers and thankes all the people that are present do blesse and say Amen Amen in Hebrew signifieth as much as God graunt it may be so S. Augustine noting the vse of the church in his dayes saith We cal vpon one God we heare one Gospel read we sing one psalme we answere one Amen wee sound out one Hallelu ia The Church sayeth Sainct Ambrose is often very fitly compared to the Sea which at first rusheth in the praiers of the whole people as it were in the flowing of hir waues and then soundeth with the respondes of psalmes and with the singing of men women maydens and young boyes much after the roaring of mighty waters The reason of this general ioyning in praier among the christiaÌ„s Leo wel declareth in these words Most ful forgiuenes of sins is obtained wheÌ„ the whol church pronounceth euery man the same praier the same confession For if the Lord haue promised to performe that which two or three of the godly consenting togither shal aske what shall bee denied to an assembly of many thowsands beseeching in one spirit with one accord which was Tertul meaning loÌ„g before wheÌ„ he said of al christiaÌ„s We meet in coÌ„panies assemblies that comming as it were an army or in troups vnto god we may eâ—eÌ„ vrge him with our praiers Haec vis Deo grata est this force is acceptable vnto God In this sort it coÌ„tinued 600. yeares as appeareth by Isidore Oportet vt quando psallitur psallatur ab omnibis cuÌ„ oratur oâ—etur ab omnibus quaÌ„do lectio legitur facto sileÌ„tio aequè audiatur ab omnibus Ideo diaconus clara voce silentiuÌ„ admonet vt siue duÌ„ psallitur siue dum lectio pronunciatur ab omnibus vnitas coÌ„seruetur vt quod omnibus praedicatur ab omnibus equaliter audiatur This must of necessâ—ty be kept in the church seruice that wheÌ„ they sing al sing wheÌ„ they pray al pray wheÌ„ the lessoÌ„ is read with sileÌ„ce it be heard alike of al. For therfore the deacoÌ„ coÌ„mandeth sileÌ„ce that whether they sing â—â— read al may do the like that which is spokeÌ„ to al should equally be heard of al. Yea Charls the great 800. yeres after christ took order by his lawes not only that the people shold say certain parts of yâ— seruice with the priest but that the pastors should preach it to bee necessary for the simple to vnderstaÌ„d their praiers yâ— euery man might know what he demaÌ„ded aâ— the haudes of God Glory be to the father to the son to the holy ghost c. shal be sung of al meÌ„ with al honor the priest with the people of God shal sing with one voice as the angels do holy holy holy Lord God of saboth The bishops shal diligeÌ„tly look that the priests throughly perceiue the praiers of their masse both theÌ„selues vnderstaÌ„d the Lords praier preach that al must vnderstand it that euery man may know what he asketh of god So IustiniaÌ„ before him could coÌ„mand that al Bishops priests within the Romane Monarchy shold celebrate the sacred oblatioÌ„ of the Lords supper and the praiers vsed in baptisme not in secret but with a loude and cleare voice that the minds of the hearers might be stirred vp with more deuotion to expresse the praises of the Lord God For so saith he the Apostle teacheth 1. Corinth If thou blesse with the spirit how shal he that keepeth the place of the priuat or lay maÌ„ say Amen at thy thanksgiuing vnto God because he wotteth not what thou saiest Thou giuest thanks wel but the other is not edified And in his epist. to the Rom. With the hart we beleeue vnto righteousnes with the mouth we confesse vnto saluation For which respects it is fit that those praiers which are vsed in the sacred oblatioÌ„ as wel as others shold be pronouÌ„ced by the bishops priests with a clear voice let the religious bishops priests know that if they neglect so to do they should yeeld an account in the dreadful iudgement of the great God for it and wee hauing information of them will not leaue them vnpunished But what need we elder or other testimonies your Masse-book which at this day you depend so much on coÌ„uinceth that the people at first did stil should vnderstaÌ„d the praiers which yâ— priest maketh eueÌ„ at the very altar sacrifice it self those being thinges of the greatest secrecy most sublimity that you haue Phi. Can you persuade vs that our Masse-book maketh with you The. Choose whether you wil be perswaded or no but you must needes be abashed to see the wordes of your own booke fight against your error Phi. Faith then our luck is bad Theo. It is euen so bad if it be not
of this this is my blood and as for the men of your side they run all to this issue that the sixt of Iohn not only treateth of the sacrament but also strongly concludeth your reall presence and externall eating of Christs flesh with bodily partes as with teeth throte and such like in so much that if you goe that way which you were about you goe alone Your friende Master Harding with a present courage as his manner is saith We can not finde where our Lord perfourmed the promise which he made in the first chapter of Iohn the breade which I will giue is my fleshe which I will giue for the life of the world but only in his last supper Steuen Gardiner his Master vttered euen the very same wordes before him Promisit Dominus se daturum nobis in pane carnem suam dicens panis quâ—m ego dabo caro mea est quam ego dabo pro mundi vita Sed quod promisit Christus noÌ„ legimus cum praestitisse nisi in coena The Lord promised that he would giue vs his flesh in bread when he said the bread that I will giue is my flesh which I will giue for the life of the world But that which Christ promised wee doe not read that he perfourmed except it were in the Supper And though they both ouerlash when they say he performed it only in the supper yet in this you may not vary froÌ„ them that he performed that promise of his verified that doctrine of his in the supper For so the fathers said before them as I haue proued and so your late Testament vpon the sixt of S. Iohn saith of al their side The catholikes teach these wordes to be spoken of the sacrament Phi. We do so The. Then what exposition the learned ancient fathers made of Christs words in the 6. of Iohn the same they inteÌ„ded referred to the words of the supper But the words of christ teaching vs in the 6. of Iohn that we must eate his flesh drinke his blood before we can haue my life in vs are by the coÌ„mon consent of all the fathers Allegoricall mysticall figuratiue ergo the figuratiue interpretatioÌ„ of Christs words in the supper is catholike Phi. Think you we are so foolish as to beleeu that the fathers were the autors of your figures Th. Chuse whether you wil beleeue vs or no we speak no more thaÌ„ we mean to proue Clemens Alexan. The Lord in the gospel of Iohn when he said eate ye my flesh drink ye my blood he called that by an alegory meat drink which is euideÌ„tly meÌ„t of our faith his promise Tertul. He pronounced his flesh to be that heaueÌ„ly bread vrging theÌ„ al along that dicourse with an allegory of needefull foodes to remember their fathers that preferred the bread and flesh of Egypt before the diuine vocation Origen Our Lord and Sauiour saith except you eate my flesh and drinke my blood you shall not haue life in you My flesh is truely meate my blood is truly drinke He that can no skill of these things may perhaps turn his eare from them as they did which said how can he giue vs his flesh to eat who can heare it they departed froÌ„ him But you if you be the children of the church if you acquainted with mysteries Sacraments of the Gospell acknowledge the thinges that wee say they be the Lords Acknowlege that there be figures in the diuine books therefore examine theÌ„ as spirituall men not as carnall vnderstand what is said If you conster these thinges as carnall men they hurt you they doe not nourish you Chrysostom The words that I speak to you are spirite that is spirituall hauing nothing that is carnall in them If a man should carnally take them he should gaine nothing What is carnally to vnderstand theÌ„ Simply as they be spoken neither to seek any farther For the things that we see must not so be iudged of but all mysteries Sacraments must be considered with the inward eyes that is spiritually Phi. Spiritually we grant we must vnderstand them but not figuratiuely Theo. What is spiritually but figuratiuely Eating and drinking are corporall actions not spirituall and properly perfourmed with the partes of our bodies not with the powers of our soules Since then by the constant confession of all the fathers the Lord throughout this chapter did not refer eating drinking to the bodies of his Disciples but vnto their soules and ment their faith not their teeth it is apparant that the wordes of our Sauiour are allegoricall and figuratiue I meane translated and deriued by an allegorie from the body to the mind from chamming to beleeuing from swallowing to remembring to be short from the flesh of his Disciples to their spirites and in that respect called spirituall The manner of eating there specified is spirituall the wordes there vsed are mysticall to wit not literall but allegoricall and so the Fathers mainly teach Basil Tast see how sweete the Lord is We haue often marked that the powers of the soul are called by the same names by which the members of the body are Because then our Lord is the true bread his flesh is meate indeede it must be that the sweetnes of that delicious bread be felt of vs by meanes of spirituall tast There is a certaine mouth of the minde and â—oule within man which is nourished by the word of life the bread I mean which came from heauen Origen To euery part or power of the soule Christ becommeth euerything Therefore he is called the true light that the eyes of the soule may haue wherewith to be lightned therfore the word that the eares of the soule may haue what to heare therefore the bread of life that the tast of the soule may haue what to relesse Tertullian The wordes that I haue spoken to you be spirit and life Making his word to quicken by reason his word is spirite and life hee called the same word his flesh because the word was made flesh and so for the procuring of life was to bee desired yea TO BE DEVOVRED WITH HEARING CHEWED WITH VNDERSTANDING AND DIGESTED WITH BELEEVING Cyprian The master of this ordinance and feast saide that except we did eate his flesh and drinke his blood we should haue no life in vs directing vs with a spirituall instruction and opening our wittes for the conceiuing of so great a matter thereby to let vs vnderstaÌ„d that our abiding in him is eating our drinking is as it were an incorporating with him in that mutual seruices are yeelded wils ioyned and affections vnited The eating therefore of this flesh is a certaine coueting and desiring to abide in him Athanasius Therefore doth he mention his ascending into heauen to pull from them their corporall cogitations and thinking
Theo. And the same exposition of his woordes which he then annexed to them abideth good for euer Phi. What else Theo. And he that deuisethâ— or teacheth any other manner of eating his flesh or drinking his bloode at his last Suppper than is there declared and confirmed by himselfe is either a Capernite or worse Phi. He is Theo. But that eating which he there taught was by faith and vnderstanding and they that murmured at him and departed from him thought he had ment eating with the mouth and teeth What lâ—ck you then of the Capernites error when you affirme that the naturall and substantiall bodie of christ is really eaten with teeth and locally discendeth into the stomacke which is the waie that all other meates doe passe when they nourish the bodie Phi. We defie both you and them we doe not incline to their error We eat christ in a mysterie by faith and though we tast see nothing but bread wine yet doe we preferre the trueth of his promise before the iudgemeÌ„t of our senses which you doe not And therefore you falsely slaunder vs when you charge vs with the carnall opinion of the capernites Theoph. I can yeeld you no freer choice than if you like not their companie to leaue their error You must not looke to misconster the wordes of christ as they did and take skorne to be called as they were Phil. I tell you wee doe not teare the flesh of christ with our teeth as they thought they should Theo. You holde that the flesh of christ entereth your mouthes and is really bruised though somewhat fauourablie with your teeth and locallie discendeth downe your throates into the closet of your bellies What differ you now from the capernites what kinde of eating were they rebuked for if not for this Moe kindes of eating than by minde or by mouth with faith or with teeth that is corporall or spirituall you cannot imagine Man hath no mo partes but a soule and a bodie therefore he can vse no kinde of eating but either with his soule or with his body You must new frame men which is past your reach before you can chalenge this diuision as vnsufficient ech part hath his kinde and sort of eating Now which of these twaine did the Capernites fasten on the spirituall or the corporall kinde of eating the flesh of Christ Not the spirituall for they beleeued not as the Scripture saith of them and they which lack faith lack the right and true meanes of spirituall eating Besides our Sauiour went about to teach them the spirituall eating of his flesh and drinking of his blood for so doth himselfe expound his owne woordes and his whole Church after him did testifie that his meaning If then the Capernites lighted on the same manner of eating which christ proposed to them they deserued rather praise than blame but they mistooke the wordes of christ and were rebuked of him ergo they thought on the corporall eating of christs flesh with teeth and iawes which is the selfe same point that you affirme in your doctrine Phi. We neither see nor tast the flesh of christ which they dreampt they should and therefore we be most free from their madnes Theo. You cham the flesh of christ actuallie with your teeth and swallowe the same dâ—wne your throates and these be the proper actions and right instrumentes of externall and caperniticall eating your eyes and your tast be not els blind men and such as by reason of sicknes can tast nothing by your diuinitie can eate nothing and meates so deuised and handled by art that we can neither by sight nor tast discerne them if your Rule be good be neither corporallie taken nor eaten which is so false that wee neede not refute you cookes and Pastlers will laugh you to scorne Grinding with teeth and swallowing downe the throat that it may descend to the stomack is the verie definition of carnall eating and since you concurre with the capernites in those two pointes notwithstanding you vary from them in sight and tast yet your opinion establisheth a corporall eating of christes flesh and a literall peruerting of his wordes no lesse than theirs did And which of the learned fathers I pray you did euer put this difference betweene the words of christ the capernites error that where they thought they should haue both eaten seene his flesh the Lord ment that indeed they should as they thought eate the same with their teeth and iawes marie they should not see nor tast it Was this the meaning of our Sauiour when he saide The wordes that I speake to you be spirite and life Did his Church after him so conster his wordes The thinges that he spake were not carnall but spirituall saith Athanasius They were spirituall hauing nothing in them that was carnall as Chrysostome and Theophilact witnes Examine them as spirituall men saith Origen not as carnall The letter doeth kill hâ—m that doth not spirituallie weigh the things that are spoken Christ giueth vs a spirituall instruction saith Cyprian and Austen Vnderstand you spiritually that which I haue spoken Christ here calleth the spirit the spirituall vnderstanding of those things that he spake saith Oecumenius What is spirit and life saith Bede They must be vnderstood spiritually What is now left for you and your fellowes but either to be coupled with the Capernits for your literall pressing the wordes of Christ and corporall eating of his flesh or els to proue which you can hardly doe that your teeth and iawes be not carnall as the Capernits were but spirituall Your mouthes and bellies I trow be flesh and not spirite members of the bodie no parts of the mind in them consisteth neither faith nor deuotion and therefore vnlesse you can transubstantiate your soules into your iawes and your harts into your throates your receiuing of Christ in at mouth and chamming his flesh with teeth that it may passe to your stomackes is neither spirituall nor mysticall but a carnall and right Caperniticall kind of eating Phi. Why doe you twite vs with the Capernites whom we so often haue disclaimed They feared lest they should eate raw flesh we haue no such feare Theo. The flesh of Christ which you eate can not be reall if it be not raw and therefore your stomackes may be stronger to digest it than theirs were but you eate the flesh of a liue man with your mouthes which they feared they should and were deceiued Phi. They thought they should haue eaten Christ by peece meale Theo. And is your opinion any whit the better because you eate him whole at one morsel Phi. This is profane scoffing Theo. Take heede that yours bee not worse than prophane eating of that which is diuine holy Phi. We eate his flesh in a mysterie Theo. What mysterie lyeth in your mouthes and bellies Phi. Is it not a greate
of a corporal substaÌ„ce for your shewes without substance were not yet known but by secret efficiencie prouing the presence of the diuine vertue This common bread chaunged into flesh and blood procureth life and groweth to our bodies so by the vsuall course of these things the weakenes of our faith is succoured and â—aught by a sensible argument that the effects of eternal life is in the visible SacrameÌ„ts that we be vnitâ—â— to Christ noâ— so much by a corporal as by a spiritual transitioÌ„ Ambrose Perhaps tâ—ou wilt say I â—ee the likenes I see not the truth of blood But it hath a resemblaÌ„ce For as thou tookest a resemblance of his death so doest thou drink a resemblance of his precious blood to this end that there should be no horror of blood and yet it might worke the price of our saluation and the grace of our redemption might remaine Therfore for a similitude thou receauest the Sacrament sed ver ae naturae gratiaÌ„ virtuteÌ„que consequeris but thou obtainest therby the grace vertue of the true nature Gelasius By the sacraments which we receiue wee be made partakers of the diuine nature they truely represent to vs the vertues and effects of that Principal mysterie Hilarius These things tasted taken bring this to passe that Christ remaineth in vs this is The vertue of that table to quicken the receiuers Leo In that mystical distribution of the spirituall nourishment that is giuen this is taken that receiuing the vertue of the heauenly meate we may be chaunged into his flesh who was made flesh for vs. Chrysostom Let vs come to the spirituall dugge of this chalice and suck thence the grace of the spirit Austen The Sacrament is one thing the vertue of the Sacrament is an other thing Euery man receiueth his part whereby grace itselfe is called parts and where the Sacraments were common to all grace was not common to all which is the vertue of the Sacraments And againe The Capernites thought he would haue giuen them his body but he told them hee would ascend to heauen no doubt hee ment whole When you shall see the sonne of man ascendingâ— where hee was before surely then shal you see that he doth not giue his body that way which you imagine surely then shal you perceiue that his grace is not consumed with biting Euthymius He doth change these things vnspeakably into his very body that quickneth and into his very precious blood and into the grace of them bothâ— We must therfore not looke to the nature of the things proposed at the Lords table but vnto the vertue of them Wherefore Theodoretes wordes are most true The signes which are seene Christ did honor with the names of his body and blood not chaunging the nature or substance of them but casting grace vnto nature And so did Ambrose meane when hee sayde If there bee so great strength in the word of the Lord Iesu that all thinges beganne to bee when they were not howe much more shall it bee of force that the mysticall elementes should be the same they were before and yet bee chaunged into an other thing The same in earthly matter and substaunce which they were before chaunged in vertue power and working whereby wee see they beare not onely the names but also the fruites and effectes of those thinges whose Sacraments they bee This is their doctrine touching the visible part of this Sacrament which is seene with eyes felt with handes and â—rused with teeth of that there is no doubt but it entereth our mouthes and resteth in our bowels and that for the causes which I before rehearsed aâ—â—er consecration is euâ—ry where called by thâ—m the Lordes body but that the naturall fleshe of Christ which is thâ— other and inwarde part of the Sacrament entereth the mouth or abideth the teeth or passeth downe the throate or loâ—geth in the stomack this is a position wholy repugnant both to Fathers and Scriptures Doe you not know sayth Christ that whatsoeuer thing from without entereth into a man can not defile him because it entereth not into his heart but into the beâ—lie Then by the iudgement of our Sauiour nothing can enter â—oth the hâ—aâ—t the bâ—lly but the flesh of Chrisâ— entereth into the hâ—art ergo 〈…〉 The bellie saieth Paul is for meates meates for the bellie and God will destroy both it and them the bodie of Chrâ—st Gâ—d wâ—ll not destroy it is therefore no meate for the bellie If not for the â—â—lliâ— then not for the mouth because eueâ—ie thing that entereth the mouth goeth into the bellie and so foorth to the â—raught But so basely to thâ—nk of the flâ—sh of Christ is apparent and 〈◊〉 wickednesse eâ—go the fleshe of Christ neither fillâ—th our bellies nor â—ntâ—râ—th ouâ— moâ—â—â—â— For nothing that entereth the mouth can either defile or sanctifie Meatâ—s saith Paul whiâ—h passe by the mouth doe not commend vs vnto â—od neither doeth the kingâ—om of God which is our sanctificationâ— conâ—â—â— of mâ—ats and drinkes but Christ with his blood doeth sanctifie the people and hee that â—atâ—th my flâ—sh drinketh my blood saith â—e remaineth in mee and I in him and hath eternall life ergo neâ—ther his fleshe nor â—â—s blood enter ouâ— mâ—utheâ— To be short Christ dwelleth not in bellies by locall comprehension but in our hearts by faith his flâ—he seedeth not â—ur bodies for a tiâ—e but our soules for euer his wordes were spoken not of our mouthes which beâ—leâ—ue not â—ut of our spirites which haue no fleshe nor boanes and consequently neither teeth to grinde nor iawes to swallow but onely â—aith and vnderstanding Lette all this bee â—â—â—de if the learned and auncient Fathers doe not conclude the same Chrysostome Care not for the nourishment of the bodie but of the spirit Christ is the bread which â—eeâ—â—th not the bodie but the soule and filleth not the belly but the minde Ambrose Christ is in that sacrament because it is the bodie of Christ. It is therefore no bodily but Ghostly meate NOT THIS BREAD which entereth into the bodie but the bread of eternall life is it that vpholdeth the substaunce of our soule Cyprian As often as we doe this wee wheâ— not our teeth to bite but we breake the sanctified bread with a sincere faith Cyril Let vs therefore as our Sauiour saith labour not for the meate which goeth into the bellie but for the spirituall foode which confirmeth our harts and leadeth vs to eternall life Austen It is not lawfull to deuoure Christ with teeth Prepare not your iawes but your harts We take but a morsel our hart is replenished Therfore not that which is seen but that which is beleued doth feed Why prouidest thou thy teeth thy belly Beleeue thou hast eaten Beâ—traÌ„ At
honor that they make their God To giue Christs honor to an Image in respect of the Originall is a seelie shift To adore the Image in respect of the Originall is in summe the very same answere that al the Pagans gaue when they were reproued for their Idolatrie Adoration of Images neuer hard of in the church before the 2. Nicen Councell which was 790. yeres after Christ. Painting of stories in the Church is a matter somwhat ancient but yet not catholike These fathers were Catholike yet repelled painting in Churches Nicenae Synodi 2. actio 6. The 2. Councell of Nice deluded the fathers that were alleaged against them Epiphanius pretended to be forged but without all cause Ibidem Eusebius condemned by them for an heretike but falsely Nicenae Synodi 2. act 6. Ibidem Ibidem Chrysost. Amphilochius Asterius plainly shifted off by the Councel of Nice Contra Celsum lib. 7. Bowing to Images condemned * August de vera Religio cap. 55. Hieron in 6. cap. Daniel Gerson in compendio Theolog. de 10. praeceptis Some of their owne church haue condemned bowing to Images as contrarie to the lawe of God Saint August abused to make for Images August de doctrin Christ. lib. 3. cap. 9. Things ordained by God must haue their reuerence though they be but creatures marie adoration they must not haue * August lib. eodem cap. 9. de doctina christian lib. 3. c. 5. * cap. 8. Images vnprofitable signes and not ordeined of God * cap. 7. * cap. 8. The lawe of god condemneth bowing vnto Images which precept the Church must obey without all shifts or other respects Praying in a straunge tongue Custome without truth is the rottennes of errour * Cypr. ad Pompei contra epistâ— Stephan * Tertull. de virgin veland * Ex sentent Concil Carthag inter â—pâ—â—a Cyprian * August debap contra Donat. lib. 3. cap. 6. Iohn 14. Ephes. 1. The Rhemish Test. vpon the 1. Cor. 14. 1. Cor. 14. The place of S. Paul to the Corinthians against praying in a strange tongue The Iesuites labour toothe and nayle to shift off this place * This is the summe of all their declaration vpon the 1. Cor. 14. in their Remish Testament The two vertues of their Rhemish annotations The two vertues of their Rhemish annotations The words strange or vnknowne put into the text in an other print for the opening of Sainct Pauls minde Sainct Paules words are most absurd if they be vnderstood of knowne toungsâ— The text cannot stand except you adde the worde vnknowne to it Sainct Paul so expoundeth himself * Vers. 9. * 11. * 16. An other tongue is a strange toung which is all one with an vnknowne tongue Chrysost. in 1. Corinth 14. The fathers interpreting Sainct Paul adde those wordes which we doe * Ibidem * Ibidem Ambros. in 1. Corinth 14. * Ibidem * Ibidem Ibidem Haymo in 1. Cor. 14. * Ibidem August de Genes ad literam lib. 12. cap. 8. Mark what a tongue is by Saint Austens interpretation The Rhemish Test. 1. Corinth 14. He that knoweth not the sense is not edified but he that knoweth not one worde as in a strange tongue is a thousand tymes lâ—sse edified Speake to children in a strange tongue and they will either fly from you for feare or laugh you to skorne Hebrew doth edify no more than Irish if a man vnderstand neither De Gen. ad litâ— lib. 12. cap. 8. Chrysost. in 1. Cor. 14. Ambros. in 1. Cor. 14. Nothing doth edifie except it bee vnderstood The Rhemish Testament 1. Corinth 14. A wretched cauill of the Iesuits because the people vnderstand not euerie mysterie of the Psalmâ—â— or lessons to say they were as good not vnderstaÌ„d a word 2. Peter 3. If the Psalmes and lessons do not edifie the worde of god doth not edifie * Rom. 15. * 2 Timoth. 3. The rest of our prayers are so plaine that no man can pretend lack of vnderstanding them except he be a naturall They be mad Christians and of your making that vnderstand not these things This is a wise iest of the Iesuits because the people vnderstande Compare this similitude with the Iesuits obiection and tell me what they differ Yf seruice in â— known toung do not â—difie what doth seruice in an vnknowne The Iesuits waie to edifie is to let the people not vnderstand a word of their praiers Euerie toung barbarous to him that vnderstandeth it not * 1 Corinth 14. The Rhemish Testament 1 Corinth 14. Act. 2. The Rhemish Testament 1. Corinth 14. Barbarous that is which is not vnderstood what tongue soeuer it be 1. Cor. 14. * Hieron in 1. Cor. 14. * Chrysost. in 1. cor 14. hom 35. * Ibidem The Rhemish Testament 1. Corinth 14. Hebrew Greeke and Latine were not vnderstoode of the ciuil people in euery great Citie The Gretians accounteth the Latine tongue to be barbarous in respect of then own Plautus in prolog Asinariae Strabo Geographiae lib. 1. Rom. 1. We despise not these tongues as barbarous in themselues but shew what Saint Paul meaneth by this word Tristium lib. 5. elegia 11. * And you shall neuer proue he spake not of them in the meane time the Apostles words he indiffereÌ„tly for all tongues In the world and none of them be generall speaches extending to all the toungs that are * Chrysost. in 1. Corinth 14. * In all toungs he that is not vnderstood is barbarous to the hearer Chrysost. Ibidem Chrysostom exemplifieth Sainct Paules woords twise together by the latine tongue Though wee praie in latine or what toung whatsoeuer Ambros. in 1. Corinth 14. * Ibidem By Saint Ambrose iudgement the Apostles spake principally of those that vsed the hebrew toung in their Sermons and praiers when the people vnderstood â—hem not Haymo in 1. Corinth 14. Haymo Ibidem The Rhemish Testament 1. Corinth 14. That he speaketh not of Church seruice is proued by inuiâ—cible arguments Sainct Paule by preaching doth not exclude praying but seuerally mentioneth them both The Church in her diuine seruice must haue both preaching and praying Roma 10 The worde engendreth faith and faith produceth praier Act 2. * These three were the publike exercises of Christes Church vnder the Apostles If the Church seruice consisted of these three then were they all three parts of the church seruice The Church in the Apostles time had no set order of publike praier as the Iesuites dreame In the primatiue Church the pastours and ministers praied and gaue thanks at the spirit directed their hearts lips * God regardeth not these solemnities of the Iesuits which they suppose to be the highest points of godlines All things were doone in the first Church by the miraculous working of the holy Ghost 1. Corinth 12. The gifts of gods spirit at the first erection of the Church 1. Corinth 14. With the spirit is with the miraculous gift of the spirit The presence and consent of the people