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spirit_n pray_v prayer_n word_n 14,465 5 4.9655 4 true
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A68850 A mothers teares ouer hir seduced sonne: or A dissuasiue from idolatry penned in way of a dialogue, by occasion of a late letter from the sonne now at Doway, to his mother: which is also printed vvith the letter, and is fully set downe in the sonnes part, for the substance, though with some addition in forme.; Answere of a mother unto hir seduced sonnes letter. 1627 (1627) STC 24903.5; ESTC S114250 89,317 193

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whose office is to stand betweene the living and the dead Hee thou prayest unto is a Spirit thou must worship him in spirit and in truth Againe doth he put no confidence in the flesh What meanes then his knowing of Christ after the flesh his will worship all his carnall services Doth he renounce his owne righteousnes is it as filthy raggs What meanes then his meritts his satisfaction his worke of supererrogation Doth he forgetting those things which are behind reaching forth unto those things which are before presse toward the marke that he may apprehend that for which hee was apprehended of Christ Iesus What meaneth then his fancy of perfection in this life This man cannot frame to pronunce Christ aright yet scales are before his eyes let him looke to it It will prove as deadly as Sibboleth to the Ephramite then they tooke him slew him at the passage of Iordan Iud. 12. I haue beene long about this yet I know no parent will blame me The Mother hath beene looking into hir Childs Eye and she feares it will be lost now you know the Eye is to this little body as the Sunne to the great the light of the body is the eye if that be darke the body lives in a continued night then if there be any remedie the Mother bestirres hir selfe how much more then if the inward eye bee in danger for when that is darke how great is that darkenesse A man knowes not where hee shall fall O the Mother would fame have that cleare because the loue of an outward sense may be supplied by the strength of another but if the light within a man bee darknesse what can recompence that losse I cannot then leave my Childs eye thus the counsaile is behind so is the eye salue thou shalt find them both if of what hath beene said thou shalt make this use Trust not my sweete Child thine owne eye it will present unto thee shaddowes for substances that is one grosse mistake for what is the shaddow to the substance no more then is the Chaffe to the Wheate It will tell thee it sees clearly when it is not onely dim and darke but quite put out that is another and can there be a greater Goe then my deare Child in the sense of this thy blindnesse for thou art blind also there is no question of it to him that is the Light the effect of whose comming is that they which see not to wit in the conscience of their owne blindnesse might see and that they which see might be made blind Ioh. 9. Go I say unto him it is not my counsell onely and say Son of David have mercie upon me that I may receive my sight and bee instant with him give him no rest till he make darkenesse light before thee and crooked things straight Till he bid the Prisoners come forth and say to the blind receive sight Isai 42. 16. Then and not till then shall thine eyes bee cleared then and not till then shall thy tongue bee loosed then not till then shalt thou frame to pronounce Christ right SONNE God knowes before whome I am our day to giue an accompt of my duty towards you that there passeth not a day or night either when you and yours take your rest wherein there is not intercession made for you MOTHER And dost thou begge vs of the Lord my sweete child Now the Lord unfold thy vnderstanding he cure thy zeale he adde knowledge to it he can doe it But all this while thou hast not fulfilled my ioy I reioyced greatly that I found of my children walkeing in the truth as we haue receiued a commandement of the Father they are Iohns words to to the elect Lady v. 4. Heare what he w●●ts to Gaius I reioyced greatly when the brethren came and testified of the Trueth that is in thee even as thou walkest in the Trueth I haue no greater ioy then to heare that my children walke in the truth Beloued thou doest faithfully whatsoever thou doest to the brethren to strangers I restraine this now to the matter in hand prayer though whatsoever a man doth that he doth it faithfully Crownes the worker the worke thou doest pray for thy Mother and her children doe it faithfully my deare child Faithfully in respect of those things that must be requested Faithfully in respect of that heart by which this Sacrifice must be presented Faithfully in respect of him to whom only it must bee directed Psal 65. 2. Faithfully in respect of that mediation through whom only it must bee accepted So pray on and begge vs of the Lord. Behold he prayeth Acts 9. 11 It is the spirits testimony of Paul after hee had left Gamaliels feete and his owne righteousnes and had attained to the knowledge of Christ and to the power of his Resurrection then behold he prayeth it yeldes a notable consideration no question Saul had prayed long and often while he satt at Gamaliels feete yet as if his prayers then had ben rather an houling then praying the spirit giues this testimony of him after the light had shined unto him behold he prayeth then and not till then Pray thus and pray on so begging vs of the Lord. I should haue no greater Ioy then to heare that my child walks in truth Beloved child thou doest faithfully whatsoever thou doest to thy Mother and her children Oh what joy were here doe this and thou fulfillest my joy and thy owne for else thy labour of loue will be lost thy watching lost thy prayers lost thy selfe lost all lost looke to thy selfe then it is Iohns caveat that thou loose not the things that thou hast wrought but that thou receiuest a full reward In the meane time the Mother will pray for the child too that his loue may abound yet more and more how In knowledge and in all iudgement Philip. 1. 9. then shall we loue both in the flesh in the Lord Phil. 16. SONNE What more to doe in this my state I know not when my Mother is misled from the way of truth without knowledge and I must obey her but in the Lord in this thing then I must be excused and she must be plainely told that it stands not with the duty of a sonne to yeeld the least to so uniust demaunds of a Mother yet that she may know how duetifull a Sonne shee hath and how couragious for the witnessing of that which hee professeth were it with his owne blood Oh! that the commands were of the same nature with hers in the Maccabees who did incourage her children to suffer euen to the death surely I should be as ready to obey as shee to command but alas my Mothers commaunds are unreasonable nay unnaturall tending to the forsaking my Religion Gods Church his trueth himselfe MOTHER And is it so my Son an unreasonable request indeed and unnaturall O but hearken my Child and if it bee so let thine owne Mother bee hated O
it in the time of prayer but to make the mind as sensuall as the Image which should be quire drawne from the senses Call ye this a serving God in Spirit SONNE Yes for marke my Leaders words wee use them but as a devout representation of the Churche Triumphant which is fit to bee made in the time and place of prayer MOTHER I say nothing of the Church Triumphant or of that proportion which is betwixt the the representation and the thing represented turne we to Deut. 4. 15. Take good heed for ye saw no manner of Image lest yee corrupt your selves and make the representation of any figure See here ye saw no Image ye shall make the representation of no figure wee doe use Images as a representation What call ye this but with a whores forehead to walke in the stubbornesse of your owne hearts yee shall not yet ye will doe contrary to the expresse charge of God therefore as theirs so your services are accompted no better then sacrificing to Divells Deut. 32. 17. Whosoever walkes contrary to Gods revealed will shall find the Scripture an adversarie and contrary to his way in every page Agree then with thy adversarie while thou art in the way For ye can no more wash your hands from Israels sin then their following generation could theirs from innocent blood Therefore that thou may'st be pricked in thy heart I returne to the second of Isaiah where we find the burden of Idolatry The meane man boweth downe and the great man humbleth himselfe therefore forgive them not wherefore they bowed they humbled Marke it the iudgement is tied to bowing and humbling Forgive them not had thy Mother some rhetoricks now what could shee doe with it Elocution thrice repeated could do no good here This is a iudgement beyond expression It is the utmost of all Iudgements Why The horse may trample out the braines of a man and stamp his body to pieces yet there is hope in that death The Canon may dash the body like a snow ball throwne against the wall yet there is hope in that death The sword may bee made fat with the blood of the slaine there may be wailing in all streetes and crying out in all high wayes Alas Alas yet there may be hope all this while for these things fall alike to all and no man knoweth love or hatred But forgive them not What think you A man might here enquire with sobriety too why the Prophets tongue was thus steel'd against the people he seem'd more then a Son of thunder his words were swords even bitter words Lord forgive them not on would haue thought that he should have stood in the gap and have said Lord forgiue them Yea but the Prophet that hath a dreame may tell a dreame Ierm 23 but he that hath the word he saw concerning Iudah and Ierusalem Isaiah 2. 1 must speake the word faithfully and when the people shall aske what is the burden of Lord the Prophet must answer I will euen forsake you saith the Lord. Iere. 23. 33. Consider we now here is an heavy iudgment can the exalting of a peice of wood procure such a punishment Consider wee againe that sillie man would not be compared to a block and that iealousie is the rage of a man he will not spare in the day of vengeance Prov. 6. 34. Consider also that the name of the Lord is dreadfull he will bee sanctified of all that come neere him for hee is a consuming fire This puts vs upon Dauids words let vs call for his spirit my flesh trembleth for dread of thee and I feare for thy Iudgements Psal 119. 120. But if thy heart continue yet stiffe thou hast made thy selfe liable to Belshazzars sin which brought destruction upon him like a whirle-wind The Lord hath done thus and thus to Ephraim and thou hast not humbled thy heart though thou knewest all this But hast praised the gods of silver and gold wood c. and the God in whose hand thy breath is and whose are all thy wayes thou hast not glorified Dan. 5. 22. Good Child consider it and since I cannot give thee my right hand of fellowship yet the Mother and Child would faine bee together they would not a few miles should part them much lesse such a gulfe let us before thy hand bee pluck't backe seriously debate this thing by what hath beene said by what shall be said which is safest which surest my comming over unto thee or thy comming over unto us that if it may be we may be together here and hereafter for ever with the Lord. Attend then further to what I have learn'd from Pauls planting and Apollos watering God giving the increase we acknowledge but one Church firme and stedfast as the foundation of the everlasting Hills compared to Noahs Ark as in many respects so also for this because as out of that there was nothing but death so out of this there can be no salvation And therefore as Noah having Gods speciall order for the matter and forme of it had also his invisible hand to guide it So likewise hath this Church that watchman of Israel for its Pilot therefore though it be in continuall dangerin yet shall it be preserved from the raging waves of this sea be safely brought to the haven where it would bee And for its more sure direction this keeper of Israell hath appointed at a most certaine and infallible oracle whereunto all the Prophetts and Apostles give witnesse and thereunto it doth give diligent heede and firme assent because the Authority and testimony therof is alwaies the same being grounded upon Gods unchangeable veritie As for the Popes succeeding Peter the Church findeth not the truth of it in hir Genealogies and it may be as doubtfull as the succession of Peters Cocke whose Pedegree notwithstanding they say hath beene lineally drawne from generation to generation and it is Cock-sure But yet call your Pope what you will Iohn or Ioane you know it was doubtfull once yet is hee of the same mould with Peter and may erre as hee did whereupon Paul resisted him to the face for hee was to be blamed Gal. 2. 11. And therefore whatsoever he saith challengeth no other then an humane consent unto it for if all the men in the world not immediately directed as were extraordinary Prophets Apostles in whom the spirit spoke and testified by them should consent in one as they notwithstanding their multitude were but men though many so were their testimonie but humane It was not then of old time that they asked councell of your holy Father and so ended the matter but search the Scriptures they testifie of me There is our oracle hearken to what they say The Church of the living God I call it neither ours nor yours but blessed is the man that hath his name written therein is the pillar and ground of trueth no foundation whereon the building must relie but as it is
tormentors If their bodies must be whipt they shall be delivered up to bee whipt and a Bonner shall doe it but they will goe away reioycing If their bodyes must be scorctht a Terrill shall doe it unlesse our English Mutius will in an holy indignation and revenge burne that hand which had subscribed to that which would haue destroyed the whole body soule too But Rose Allen hath an other fire within even zeale to the truth and this burnes so within her that outwardly she feeles but little payne If they must be pincht with hunger a stony-harted keeper shall do it whose charge is as hard as hee but they haue a meate which the keeper knowes not off they liue not by bread alone yet if the keeper be so kind as to giue it them they will take it for they will not hate their owne flesh but in due time and place nourish it cherish it was the husband the wife and the Lord his Church these know not my child what to make of that for ever Austere living in pennance for sinne But they are very well acquainted with a sorrow for sinne and affliction of soule which is an inward thing comming from an inward principle and this is such that it doth make them with David to forget to eate their bread or if they doe remember it to mingle it with weeping Then they be such as fast too and fast often not resting upon it as an essentiall part of Gods worship but as a notable help and preparation thereunto fitting them for that wherein they are aboundant prayer ioyning that with it knowing that some sinnes will not be cast out without it And thus they doe for a time not defrauding themselues superstitiously in imitation of Christ or of Moses before then they should go against the precept and be found to neglect their bodyes which must be cared for that they may be serviceable They do they must somtims sett aside their water use a little wine for their stomacks sake and their often infirmities 1. Tim. 5. 23. Somtims a bitt of flesh on the friday and an egg on the saturday to the pare dayes and meates are pure But still respecting the main that they be seruiceable to God and his Church whereunto they haue euer so wakefull an eye knowing well their season when to keepe vnder their bodies and to bring them into subjection least at any time or by any meanes they should be reproued This they doe frequently but by no means resting on the outward act That is but the carkasse but ioyning many excellent works with it breaking of their sins by repentance that is a principall thing for now their worke is accepted Dealing their bread to the hungry that is an other feruent prayer that was in the first place and now it comes againe to be considered a part that thou maist know that we haue them who pray too and pray much but marke upon all these the doore is shut knowing they haue a God that seeth in secret These are they who are frequent and feruent in prayer carried upon the wings of faith without the help of Saint or Angel not by number but by weight yet hauing the spirit but by measure they doe not continue in prayer superstitiously It is an easie matter to count Beades but that prayer which foyles Amalecke is a laborions work for behold two men holding up Moses hands O Lord whose property it is to have thy hands stretched out still strengthen the weake hands that Amaleck may not prevaile Thus they doe pray and that fervently watching thereunto prayer is one of their weapons and is unto them as Goliahs sword to David nothing like that Like the worthiest of Davids worthies what difficulties doth it goe through what waters of comfort doth it fetch the time would faile mee I leaue it to a silent admiration That soule on which the spirit of prayer and supplication is powred can tell and onely that it is possible for mee thee to admire that whereof we have no experience I doe so and see I am againe in Balaams rapture Behold here they rise up as a great Lion and lift up themselves as young Lions they shall not lie downe till they eate of the prey and drinke the blood of the slaine This is Moses hand lift up Amaleck falls before it No that it doeth not some will say Amaleck prevailes He doth so yet are the prayers of the Saints ascended up and they are before the throne as the Lords remembrancers how long Lord how long when wilt thou hearken to the voice of our breathing And these are heard though the Lord bee not now come to answere them in all the peoples sight here is the patience of the Saints In the meane time their teares the other weapon shall bee bottled for they have teares too I say not all have nor all at all times it is certaine there may be a weeping heart when there is a drie eye as there may bee and often is a wett eye and a drie heart all natures all constitutions are not alike yet teares they have some of them Ieremies vivers some teares to fill a bottle some of them have teares to cover the place they pray in teares to water the couch Maries teares to wash with teares to eate teares to drink teares to sow with teares to water with they have their joy too but that as a cluster of grapes in respect of the vintage to refresh them travailing through this wildernesse light is sowen for the righteous they kn●… they shall reape in due time therefore they fai●… not Come now my sweet Child set the pe●…nance of your Augustine or your Capucim or Anchorite call them what you will an●… compare it with the pennance of the afore mentioned and like Dagon before the arke it falls before it I know well you have much bodily exercise you see many things which have in deed a shew of wisedome in voluntary religion and humblenesse of mind and in not sparing the body But are not many things in great estimation among men and yet in the eyes of God and his Saints vile contemptible yea beggarly rudiments no more able to cast downe the strong holds of sinne which are set up in the heart of man then a child with his pot-gun can batter a tower Come we to your voluntary poverty a thing your letter tells me thou doest much gaze upon This casting away all and then casting your selves upon Gods providence In want and that willingly oh it is a glorious thing SONNE Yes our great Master saith so Cardinall Bellarmine he hath Scripture for it too If thou wilt be perfect goe sell giue to the poore Math. 19. A worke of Supererogation It will set a man on the right hand in the kingdome All this haue I done Hast thou now overtopt perfection go sell and giue c. Againe marke what Peter saith in the person of all the rest
you that our Saviour payd the price for us whereby we are become heires of God co-heires with Christ and being heires we shall inherit though we suffer nothing For Christ both suffered and satisfied for us but they will not see what followeth For where the Apostle calleth us heires of God c. he addeth immediately if yee suffer together with him signifying that wee are heires with Christ upon condition that we suffer with him to the end wee may bee glorified with him for we are not freed by our Saviours passion from suffering but the more invited or rather obliged thereunto witnesse our Saviour himselfe he that will come after me let him deny himselfe and take up his Crosse and follow mee But contrary if you will but look into Gods Church you shall not onely find Christ spoken of but truly followed You shall see those whose onely ioy is in afflictions for Christs sake whose song is that of the Apostle God forbid I should reioyce in any thing but in the crosse of Christ Who have forsaken all and given their whole estate to maintaine the poore so committed themselues to the providence of God we have not those who barely commend vertues in our Saviour but follow them in deed also they are such that talke little fast hard pray much suffer continually they are in want and that willingly to helpe others Poore they are in meanes but poorer in spirit and theirs onely is the Kingdome of heaven I will adde no more lest I should seeme rather to preach you a sermon then to write you a Letter Deare Mother see and be acquainted with those who both of this faith and life amongst you I am sure their good wayes will better informe you in this kinde then my Letters And that you may be the surer satisfied let the travells of any of my brethren make triall and let them not doubt but that they may be as safe and as well for their calling and travell here as in England I live in Doway a halfe weekes iourney from you trust my brotherly love towards them for their safety at one of the English houses in Doway you shall finde mee I could rather wish to see any of my brethren at Doway but I pray you if you will not take so hard a iourney for my sake at least let mee heare from you Direct your Letters to one M. Wetwood● house in Doway who is an English Gentleman What I have written unto you Deare Mother is likewise written to my poore brethren and sisters whom with your selfe I commend in my most earnest prayers unto the safe protection of God almighty who I hope hath brought me hither to provide for your poore deceived soules In our Lord and Saviour farewell be mindfull of your selves that your soules perish not in that heavie day of the Lord. MOTHER THy letter came to my hands my dear Child like Iosephs party-coloured coate to his father Iacob in many things there holds much proportion This is my Sons coate saith the good old man a wicked beast hath devoured him Ioseph is surely torne in pieces I cannot say so altogether but this is my Sonnes letter doth your poore aged Mother say I know it is the great beast hath set his marke upon him and appointed him for the ptey I shall be robbed of my Son Oh! I shall be robbed of my Son At the best the Ismalites haue carried him into Egypt a place of grosse Idolatry where he is for his lettet tells me it left him at Doway and there must mine find him What there my Son Now let hir who is acquainted with the deare name of a Child say whether there holds not much proportion between Iacobs sorrow mine I go down to the graue mourning I shall lye downe in sorrow Your old Father and as full of griefs as yeares since thou wentest away is not thou art not and I am a poore distressed Mother thus hath the Lord showen mee much bitternesse These things are against me even all these but I am robbed of my Child That that hastens to bring my gray haires with sorrow to the graue oh come againe my deare Child come againe that I may see thy face with comfort once more before I make my bed in the darke it is now almost night with me and I shall be seen no more O returne my Son returne my Sonne my Sonne SONNE My Mother thinks me unmindfull of her now whereas indeed shee is unmindfull of her selfe herein like a blind man who because he sees not himselfe thinkes another sees him not also I discerne my Mother as plainely as Elisha the two Spies quite out of the way to the place shee intends MOTHER O Child he that thinkes he sees another best most commonly discernes himselfe worst There may be a great mistake about this businesse of seeing We find one who in feare tooke shadowes for men Iudg. 9. 36. and it tells thee the very outward sense may be so mistaken We reade of another who sodainly lost ger sight yet could not be perswaded but she could see well the house was darke the windowes shut there was no want in hir eyes sure But this was a foole you will say and indeed she was accounted no better then Seneca's wives foole Epist 50 And yet hir Master could say the foole had many fellowes when hee little suspected himselfe one of the number for do but turne the sense inward and it shall appeare to bee an easie and ordinary thing to bee deceaved therein because a light may bee in a man and that light may be darknesse The Iewes thought they could see well they blind it was not a thing to be questioned And yet they had no more certainty of it then Sisera's mother had of hir sons welfare Iudg. 5. she stai'd not untill a good Ahimaaz brought hir newes nor scarce while hir Ladies could answere hir though they were so wise in their Generation as to flatter hir who would flatter hir selfe yea saith the text shee returned answere to hir selfe therein lay the deceit You may make it the Embleme of the grand Imposture I meane not the Pope or his mistery of Iniquity though our burning and shining light hath call'd it so he must come an Ace lower I meane the Imposture of that which is deceitfull above all things Ier. 17. 9 There is a spirit in a man which will tell him all is well and so carves forth a prey presently and to a mans selfe as good a part as Sisera had And here is the miserie of it all this may be but in conceit as an hungry man dreames he is eating But the Lord weigheth the spirit●s saith the wise man Proverbs 16. 2. therefore the counsaile is good which followes Commit thy workes unto the Lord thy thoughts shall be established For as in a mans owne strength no man shall bee strong so nor by his owne testimonie iustified Let a man then looke out and