Selected quad for the lemma: spirit_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
spirit_n	old_a	young_a	youth_n	300	4	8.2577	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A88105	Light for smoke: or, A cleare and distinct reply by Iohn Ley, one of the Assembly of Divines at Westminster, to a darke and confused answer in a booke made, and intituled The smoke in the temple, by Iohn Saltmarsh, late preacher at Brasteed in Kent, now revolted both from his pastorall calling and charge. Whereto is added, Novello-mastix, or a scourge for a scurrilous news-monger.	Ley, John, 1583-1662.; C. D. Novello-mastix.	1646 (1646)	Wing L1883; Thomason E333_2; Thomason E333_3; ESTC R200742	90,377	128

besides your disparagement of old men I have some what to say to you for mistaking and misapplying the words of the Prophet Ioel 2.28 brought in by the Apestle Act. 2.17 first for the defence of old men you make as if it were safer to hearken to young men then to them as if the young men were wiser counsellours then the old I grant before-hand that sometimes there may be young men as Ioseph Daniel and Samuel who may have a spirit of wisdome and thereby may be fit to give counsell and to governe the wayes of the aged but setting aside singular and extraordinary examples compare age youth in the generall and the resolution of reason and example will be that old men are fitter to direct and guide the young then contrariwise for in old men the passions and perturbations of the minde which give great impediment to prudence for they are to reason as fumes and vapours about a candle which dimme the light thereof are more subdued then in young men Besides experience which is both the parent of wisdome of which it is begotten and the nurse which bringeth it on to a further growth and proficiency falls not within the fathome of a young mans reach but of the old man hence is it that Solomon saith The hoary head is a ●rowne of glory if it be found in the way of righteousnesse Prov. 16.31 and that by the law the younger sort were to rise up before the hoary head and to honour the face of the old man Levit. 19.32 For with the ancient is wisdome and in length of dayes understanding Iob 12.12 And hence it is that the Counsellours and Governours of Common-weales are called Senators and their Assembly * Senatus nomen dedit aetas nam i●dem patres sunt Quintil. Instit orat l. 1. c. 6. p. 38. Senatus from age and in the old Testament they are called the Elders of Israel and in the New those whose function requireth of them a wisdome of the best kinde and highest degree for it must be such a wisdome as must goe beyond his subtiltie who deceiveth all the world Rev. 12.6.9 are called Presbyters a word in Greeke of the same signification with Elders in English And for example you cannot be forgetfull of the Story of R●h●boams old and young Counsellours 1 King 12. nor what prelation is given to the old above the young in that Story and while you remember it you should not sway the preeminence on the young mens side against the old men as you have done Besides the Scriptures there be manifold instances against your fence in the difference of age and youth I will minde you of some as that of a Tuum est undecunque evocare ascribere tibi exemple Mosis senes non juvenes Ber. de Cons lib. 4. cap. 4. col 886. Bernard counselling Eugenius to call to him Counsellours as Moses did that were old men not young men and of the Lacedemonians of whom b Apud Lacedaemonies ii qui amplissimuns magistratum gerunt ut sunt sic etiam appellantur senes Cicer. Cat● Major seu de Senect Tom. 3 ●p●rum Cicer. pag. 408. in fol. Cicero saith that they who are the chiefe Magistrates whose authoritie is of most ample extent as they are so they are called old men And among the Romans aged prudence was so much honoured that c Vt quisque atate antecellit ita sententia principatum abtine● Ibid. pag. 415. in the Colledge of Sages Sentences were partly valued by senioritie And there is good ground for this great estimation of old men d Maximas Respub per adolescentes labefast●s à senibus suste●●ates resti●●as reperiatis Ibid. p. 408. for great Common-weales as he sheweth which have been ruined by young men have been repaired and restored by old men Such as Agesilaus was whom though among the vulgar Egyptians when he came into their Countrey and they saw no stately traine about him but an old gray beard laid on the grasse by the seaside a little man that looked simply on the matter in a thread bare gowne fell a laughing at him yet the chiefe Captaines and Governours of King Tachis honourably received and were marvellously desirous to see him for the great fame that went abroad of him and he was famous for his wisdome both Military and Civill as c Plutarch in Agesil pag. 629.630 Plutarch reporteth in the Story of his life To him I could adde many examples of later time and neerer home I will name only one and that is my Reverend brother f See his booke de Diphthongis aut Bivocatibus Mr. Tho. Gataker who though he have been an old man a great while hath given of late since his sicknesse and secession from the Assembly such a specimen of a pregnant apprehension and faithfull memory as may assure a judicious Reader that albeit his body be weake his braine is not so though his head have been long gray his wit is yet greene and flourishing Secondly Now for mine other exception against your comparison In it you not onely give preeminence to young men before old but preferre them in this that young men see visions of reformation and old men dreame dreames of it onely wherein you wrap up three particulars which you take for granted but it will be an harder taske then you imagine to prove any one of them First That Revelations by visions are more excellent then those that come by dreames Secondly That visions ascribed to young men are denied to old men Thirdly That young men have visions of reformation old men onely dreame of it whereas First g Duo Revelationum modi per somnium scilicet per visionem imaginariam vigilanti objectam non se superant mutuo ratione excellentioris potentiae vel praestantioris modi cognoscendi cum uterque perficiatur in imaginativa Jacob. Bonfrer in Numb 12.6 pag. 78● col 1. some learned men have resolved that visions are not more excellent then dreames and the reasons may be First because in Scripture they are brought in as Revelations though different yet without prelation of the one before the other as Numb 12. If there be a Prophet among you I the Lord will make my selfe known unto him in a vision and speake unto him in a dreame Num. 12.6 Secondly as great matters are represented in dreames as in visions as the affliction of the children of Israel in Egypt and their deliverance was revealed to Abraham in a dreame Gen. 15.12 and the intercourse betwixt heaven and earth in the ministery of Angels was represented to Jacob in a dreame Gen. 28.12 It was in a dreame that Solomon had the singular wisdome imparted to him 1 King 3.5 By a dreame was the conception of Iesus Christ by the Holy Ghost revealed to Ioseph Matth. 1.20 and the plot of perdition against him with the way to prevent it Matt. 2.13 Thirdly as for the matter so

as Irenaeus Epiphanius Philastrius Brixlensit and Augustine of old or any later Haeresiographers have set them forth but if you cannot doe this as I know you cannot with what conscience do you give out a suspition or insinuation of such abominable guilt what an ungodly guile is this how far from the Christian charitie of a man pretending the spirit of meeknesse and moderation as you doe a Smoke p. 2. nu 3. Let a spirit of meeknesse say you runne in the Artery of Preaching and Printing how farre from finceritie to raise such a smoke of infamie and reproach upon the reputation of him whom you style sometimes b In the Inscription of your Letter a Friend sometimes c Smoke p. 26. a Brother and to whom you professe a threefold respect for his age learning and place in your Letter unto him this s●rely is the beame in your eye d Your Letter to me p. b. you spake of while you are curious to take out the mote in mine eye and for that you say of Independencie worse thought of then Treason Blasphemie Idolatrie Atheisme c. I know no Presbyterian that thinks so of Independencie ut sic abstractively but considering the concurrence of many dangerous and damnable opinions with it and their protection and propagation by it it may perhaps be truly said that Independencie extensively comprehensively and effectively though not formally or intensively may be worso then other errouts or heresies forced under that supposed golden head or embraced in its ●●ver 〈◊〉 though they be at the best but as the belly and thighs of brasse and at the worst as legges of iron and feet in part of iron in part of clay as in Nebuchadnezzars Image Dan. 2. vers 32 33. I should require and expect your ingenuous acknowledgement of this injurious and uncharitable charge but that you have directed me to another remedie of the wrong you doe me where you say in your Epistle to me If you finde any passions in my Booke charge them upon mine unregenerate part for I finde that when I would doe good evill is present with me According to this distinction a female disciple of some Antinomian Teacher who would be thought too good a Christian to be a member of any Congregation that met in a Steeple-house made her evasion from an accusation of these for when her Mistresse charged her for stealing her linnens and other things which she found in her chest or trunck she denied that she stole them and when she asked how came they to be laid and locked up there Did not you doe this No said she It was not I but sinne that dwelleth in me That this is no tale fained or taken up on trust to reproach such professours as pretend to an extraordinarie straine of Evangelicall perfection but a true storie will be made good by evidence beyond exception to such as shall question the truth thereof But whether true or false you will haply say what is this to you Truly so much as her excuse for her theeverie hath the more conformitie with your excuse for your calumnie but I bring it in but occasionally and it is more pertinent I confesse to mind you of your owne faults then of others Smoke Pag. 59. You say you will conclude with my Politicks c. The Answer to this see in the Epistle SECT XXIX The charge of misapplication of Revel 18.1 iustified against Mr. Saltm his deniall The expectation of new lights which some Sectaries teach Papisticall fallacious and dangerous Smoke Pag. 59. YOu say of my Text Revel 18.1 that at I began so I and with misapplication of Scripture Misapplication is a word sooner writ then proved and my resons were rather crowded then ordered in my paper the Scripture was this For the Angel that came downe from heaven hath great power and the earth is lightned with his glory Light If you would cleare the Scripture from misapplication you must shew how it came in with a for as a reason of the precedent passage your next words before it are The Gospel dares walke abroad with boldnesse and simplicity when traditions of men like melancholy people feare every thing they meet will kill them and then immediately not a word betweene you say For the Angel that comes downe from heaven hath great power and the earth is lightned with his glory If this be not a misapplication of Scripture I adde further if it be not an absurd one and your defence of it ridiculously vaine and your appeale to the Reader a presumption that you take him to be very stupid or so fond as to follow you in all you say with an implicit faith let the judicious and impartiall Reader judge Smoke Pag. 59. Which Scripture there applied doth hint to any that will not rather cavill then interpret that my reason for delay of Government was in this An Angel was yet to come Light You said before your reasons were rather crowded then ordered though I know not why you should put your selfe into such a precipitation of haste If so it is not strange they should be misplaced and those cast behind which should come before as in a crowd it falleth out And truly for this testimonie and the reason of it with what went afore it it comes in a great deale too late to be pertinently applied for you had ended your reasons such as they were for the delay of Government a good while before and now were at the end of your second Objection where there was roome enough before you loosed your Pen from Paper to have made a reference of that Text to its proper place and to have told your Reader what you meant by it as now you doe and then I should have told you that that Text is as much misapplied for want of truth had it come in where it might seeme to be most certaine as here for want of sense and sutablenesse to the precedent words For The Government of the Church is as you have acknowledged before a Scripture Government and unlesse you waite for an Angel from heaven to bring another Gospel who by the doome of the Apostle should he come should be welcomed with a curse Gal. 1.8 you must not looke for another Gospel Government if you refuse the Scripture light in expectation of Evangelicall Revelations take heed you comply not with the Papists whom you pretend to abhorre making a Bellarm. de notis Eccles Tom. 2. l. 4. c. 15. p. 278. Propheticall light or revelation a note of the Church and pretending Revelations from b Legend aur fol. 255. p. 1. col 1. Portifer seu Breviar in usum Eccles Satisbur part Estrval in Festum S ri Egid. Sept. 1. lect 9. printed Paris pervid Francisc Regnault an 1555. Thelmes of the Saints out of Villegas Ribad vol. 1. part 1. p. 87 88 98. Angels And if you say your Brethren the Anabaptists have their revelations and many