Because the Discipline is an hedge or wall about the Doctrine a goad to the Means of Grace a curb to licentious courses though with many it go but to the outward man that is not to be imputed to the Discipline but their corruptions c. 4. Because where the Discipline hath been rightly chosen and setled God hath blessed it with better fruits as in Scotland where there is no Heresie nor Schism c. 5. For that of Elihu in Job Why do not daies speak c. it makes not for his purpose but that Wisdom is with the ancient and gray-headed to be heard before young or green-headed Counsellors c. Reply To your first That the fault was in the choyce of a wrong Government c. I answer That is the feare now least there should be a choyce of a wrong Government and so the same fault should be committed again And this very Government hath no Image of Divine Right upon it nor hath it warrant in all things from the Word as your self acknowledge To your second That Doctrine and Discipline go together c. Yea pure Doctrine and pure Discipline go rightly together and if either be impure or unsound there is so much the more danger So as this is an Argument rather against you because where Doctrine opens the conscience and lets in any thing of Discipline but that of the pure Word there is one evill only mended with another And for your instance of a Schoolmaster who both teaches and corrects You know we are not to prove but to illustrate by similitudes And that of a Schoolmaster is a fitter illustration for the Pedagogie of the Law and that Discipline then the Gospels You know the Apostle uses it only to that The Law was our Schoolmaster c. Gal. 3. To that of your description of the Government that it is a curb a goad c. I answer There is nothing you say of Government in these words but may be said of any civill Government nay of Prelacy when it was in its primitive form But that only which you ought to say and that which only differences it from all devised forms of men as your Covenant binds you and ought to be your only reason for erecting and setting it up is this Is it the Scriptures form or model Is the people so in the exercise and capacity of it as in the Gospell times If so then you prove something And further All this you say is true in a kind too of Christs Government but yet in some sort communicable with devised Governments The only distinguishing and essentiall marks are not to be a curb and goad but the Scriptures only mark and image and some spirituall operations c. which no other devised form of man hath To your other of the blessings and blessed fruits in Scotland that there is no Heresie nor Schism there Let Master Coleman our learned and pious Brother speak for us both from his experiences And for that Kingdom time will shew whether it will prove to be a blessing or no to want that which you call Heresie or Schism Surely to be free from Heresie and Schism in a Scripture sense it is such a blessing as the whole Gospell cannot patern What No Heresie in a whole Kingdom No Schism in a whole Kingdom Never such a pure Church heard on Corinth Ephesus Colosse Jerusalem Antioch all not comparable The worst I wish our Brethren there is that all were so pure as we heare on Indeed Scotland had the honour to awaken us first in the work of Reformation and Liberty but lest Scotland should be puffed up England shall have the glory I hope to improve that liberty to a fuller light which some would close up too soon in the narrownesse of a Presbytery Methinks there is something of this nature considerable in the Lutherans who though they follow the first Light in Germany yet the Lord hath suffered them to stick there without a fuller Reformation that the first may be last and the last be first For if a State be covenanted so close to the Word they had need be favourable and free to all that are accordingly covenanted for each mans conscience is the Interpreter in himself of what makes for or against the Covenant he takes and by this very Covenant you are all to be tender to consciences because the Spirit of God not power of men can intterpret the Will of God but in their civill and prudentiall things only they may interpret themselves To that of Job That with the ancient is wisdom and with the gray-headed which you apply in way of reproach to the younger whom you call as it were green-heads I answer That the elder I esteem as fathers and the younger we know are such in whom the Lord speaks more gloriously as he himselfe saith Your young men shall see visions and upon your sons and daughters I will powre out my Spirit your old men shall dream dreams Now whether is it more excellent to dream dreams or to see visions The Lord delivered Israel by the young men of the Provinces Surely we may more safely hearken to the younger that see visions of Reformation then to the elder that dream dreams of it only Master Ley's Resolution pag. 15 16. There is great disproportion of times Men were then converted from Paganism and while they were so they were uncapable Our Congregations in England are professed Christians and though there be many not so wrought on by the Word c. That is rather a reason for the establishment of it Ezek. 22. 26 1 Cor. 4. 21. Prov. 23. 13 14. Nor can Sabbath nor Sacraments be administred without it Reply To that of the disproportion you speak on of times and conversion c. I answer The Apostle's and Primitive times are the times we are to looke at for a patern and modell 'T is true there is great disproportion for they were Apostles who gave the government then yet are but private Divines as you say by me if you be compared with them For that of the conversion from Paganism to Christianity There is no such disproportion there neither but that very proportion which our Saviour hath himself foretold and set forth For how doth a Iewish and Antichristian State differ Nay how doth a Heathenish or Paganish State differ from an Antichristian or Parochiall State as Parochiall or Parish is in that notion Christ hath put them that are out of the Church under that very notion Matth. 19. 17. and the spirit in the Revelation makes the Antichristian State to be as unlawfull as a Paganish and cals out equally from that as from the other as by comparing 2 Cor. 6. 17. Rev. 18. 4. together will appeare So as speaking of things and notions I cannot but speake in a Scripture way nor am I uncharitable in this neither though I thus speak I looke on thousands in this State as godly beleevers It is not the
c. And those Families the children of the Bond-woman and of the free never bearing but persecuting each other So as all of pure spirituall constitution cannot but experimentally finde a spirituall nature in themselves working them into a more glorious fellowship then that of the world The sum of the Argument If then there be two contrary natures of Spirit and Flesh if these cannot nor never could in experience of all Ageâ— and according to the truth in Scriptures and example of all there beare each other into the same spirituall society or fellowship if nature it selfe in the creatures run out into antipathies and sympathies that is into particular gatherings and separations mutuall opposings and resistings of each other when together Then spirituall and unmixt Communion and Fellowship from the world and men of the world is warrantable But all this is undeniably true to the experience of all Therefore spirituall unmixt Communion and Fellowship from the world and men of the world is warrantable II. Argument from the Power of Spirituall Ordinances and Dispensations THe Gospel-Ordinances brought into the World a power and spiritual Law in them though in degrees and measures and severall givings out as in Johns time and his Disciples in Christs owne time and his Disciples and in the Spirits time and according to these times of manifestation believers were wrought upon in Johns time they came out to the Baptism of Water in Christs and his Disciples to the preaching of the Word in the Spirits time to the Bâ—pâ—â—sme of the Spirit to a more mighty and glorious working and all these times of Gospel-manifestation had a prevailing losse and more upon the believers of these severall times in drawing them out from the World in part though weakly in Johns time it is said Then came out unto him all Judea yet though they were Baptised of him they gathered not off into such particular societies as after The Kingdome of God then was but at hand in Christs time though his preaching was powerfull yet he let out the glory of his spirit but sometimes with the Word reserving his more glorious manifestations for other times and even here though Christs preaching gathered in his Apostles and Disciples into some particular and neerer way to himselfe yet not many more nay he rather left many partly in that mixed condition of society he found them and so the Disciples Commission which was given was to preach but little yet of Church gathering but by way of Prophecy as in Matt. 16. and 18. The Kingdome of God was but yet at hand not come In the Spirits time then the Kingdome of God was come and then a mighty operation and measure of the Spirit was powred out and then the believers through the powerfull working were brought more off from the World and began to gather in closer to Christ and one another And now all power was given to Christ which was not before his Resurrection and now he sets up a Kingdome All power is given into my hands and now the Kingdom begins to be set up in the hearts and practice of believers and the Spirit to mold and cast the believers into Brotherhoods and societies and the forme of a Kingdome and now the Laws and spirituall policy are given out for ordering this Kingdome And we see how the people of God in Rome Corinth Ephesus Galatia drew off from the world in the things of the Lord. We see then how the Word did begin to worke Believers into a fellowship from the world and the more the spirit was given the more and more off from the world in all these severall times And it is a rationall truth and a clear conclusion even to meer reason that the more Christ and his Spirit is in any the more neer and close they will gather up to heaven and walkings with God and the more Christward any one is the more off still from the multitude of the world And thus the Ordinances of Jesus Christ in which the Spirit breathes so powerfully worke men off from the mixed world into fellowship with the Lord and that spirituall fellowship makes them rejoyce more in one another then in any other that are more carnall The more men live to Christ the more they dye to the world and are formed into the fellowship of his death and Resurrection The sum of the Argument If then the Ordinances and Spirit of the Lord Jesus Christ had ever a power in some degree of prevailing upon the soules of Believers according to the manifestation of the Spirit and if this Spirit flowing from God and Christ carry up the soule to God and Christ according to the measure given to those Beleevers and if the more they are carried towards Christ the more they must come off from the world Then Congregationall or Church-order wherein Beleevers are gathered into fellowship with God in Christ and one another from the world in the things of the Gospell and unmixt communion is warrantable But all this is undeniably true from the Word Therefore Church-fellowship and unmixt Communion is warrantable Argument III. IF mixed communion and society came in upon the Apostacy and falling away and Parochiall Congregations were formed up afterwards from such mixt Communion If as Antichrist prevailed so darknesse and corruption prevailed upon Beleevers If Churches were called Golden Candlesticks before and a Fellowship of Saints and the Body of Christ and Kingdom of God till they grew mixed If the mixt Congregations by Parishes came in first by Dyonisius Bishop of Rome in the yeare 267. and in England by Honorius Bishop of Canterbury and people were only made Congregations by conveniency of situation and the Law of Civill Policy If Parishes were first the seats of Popery and after the seats of Prelacy and now fall under the Presbytery in the same kind and Notion of a mixed multitude Then mixt and Parochiall Congregations are not that way and order of Christ for Ordinances which was the Primitive way revealed and practised in the Gospell But all this is undeniably true from the best Historians Therefore not mixt Communion and fellowship but pure and unmixt is the only Ordinance of Christ Now I shall leave you for the present and commend particulars unto you and the Kingdom the one A Rule of Evidences for Spirituall Communion drawn from the Scriptures the other A remarkeable passage in the Book of Vindication The Rule of Evidences for Spirituall-Communion MAtth. 15. 26. Chap. 18. 19 20. Joh. 10. 16. Acts 2. 44 46. Chap. 19. 9. Rom. 1. 7. Chap. 16. 17 18. 1 Cor. 1. 1 10. Chap. 5. 4 5 11 13. and 12. 12 13 14 20 25 27 2 Cor. 5. 6 7. Chap. 6. 14 15 16 17. Gal. 5. 9 10 12 13. Chap. 6. 16. Ephes 4. 3 4 25 Chap. 5. 1 2 11 12 21 30. Pâ—il 3. 15 16 17. 1 Thes 3. 6. 2 Thes 3. 14. 1 Tim. 6. 3 4 5. 2 Tim. 3. 5. Tit. 3.
10. Heb. 10 â—â— 1 Pet. 2. 9. 1 Joh. 1. 7. 2 Joh. v. 10 11. Revel 2. 14 15 20. Chap 18. 4. and 19. 20. A remarkable Passage in the Vindication-Booke ANd if our Assembly and Ministers will but diligently preach against that Catalogue of scandalous sins and sinners they have presented to the Parliament and the Parliament prescribe severe Temporall Lawes and Punishments against them and appoint good Civill Magistrates to see them duly executed inflicted I am confident that this would work a greater Reformation in our Church and State in one halfe yeare then all the Church-Discipline and Censures now so eagerly contested for will do in an Age and will be the only true way and speediest course to reforme both Church and State at once which I hope the Parliament will consider of and take care that our Ministers like the Bishops formerly may not now be taken up with Ruling and Governing but Preaching and Instructing which is worke enough wholly to engrosse their time and thoughts FINIS LEt this Way of Peace and Reconciler among Brethren intituled The Smoke in the Temple more then ordinarily usefull in these times be printed Imprimatur IOHN BACHILER The Smoke in the Temple WHEREIN IS A DESIGNE FOR PEACE RECONCILIATION of Beleevers of the severall OPINIONS of these Times about ORDINANCES to a Forbearance of each other in Love and Meeknesse and Humility With the opening of each Opinion and upon what SCRIPTURES each is grounded With the severall EXCEPTIONS which may be made against each Opinion from the SCRIPTURES With one Argument for Liberty of Conscience from the NATIONALL CONVENANT With another Argument to prove the Gospell or New Testament of Iesus Christ the very Word of God Tendred to all the Beleeuers to shew them how little we have attained and there is a more glorious Fulnesse to be revealed With a Discovery of the Antichristian way of Peace c. for Opinions With a full Answer to Master LEY One of the Assembly of Divines against my late New Quaere With some spirituall Principles drawn forth of the Controversie Rev. 15. 8. And the Temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God and from his power and and no man was able to enter into the Temple till the seven plagues of the seven Angels were fulfilled By Iohn Saltmarsh Preacher of the Gospell at Brasteed in KENT THE THIRD EDITION Printed for Giles Calvert at the Signe of the Black Spread-Eagle at the West-End of S. PAULS 1646. To the Right Honourable the Lord Vicount SAY and SEALE and Lieutenant Generall CROMWEL Noble Patriots IF I mistake not you may here single out somthing of the Lords from what is mine and discerne some beames of God amongst many things of man I know the candle of the Lord cannot shine any where with more snuff then in me however since the Lord hath lighted it I dare not but let it shine or rather glimmer before men I have writ your Names to my Book that I may be one of your Remembrancers amongst the rest to the advancement of Truth not but they who know ye know ye to be acted by a Spirit of Truth in your selves The Lord remember ye according to all the good ye have done in your severall Ministrations to this people and do that for ye which gives you most and yet takes most from ye even filling ye with himself till he hath emptied ye of all but his own glory and gathered ye up into the fulnesse and righteousnesse of himselfe in Christ where we are only nothing in our selves and every thing in him and surely the most and best and greatest thing he can do for the sons of men is thus to make them nothing in their own account that he that glorieth may glory in the Lord. I may seeme strange to wish ye thus but I know it is not strange to ye who know the Mystery of the Spirit and of Christ My Lord and Sir Go on still yet still laying your designes in a glory above that of States and Kingdomes and involving all your Counsels there where there is most of Heaven and least of the world So praies Your Servant in the Lord IOHN SALTMARSH To the Beleevers of severall Opinions for outward Ordinances or dispensations scandalously called Independents Presbyterians Anabaptists Seekers Brethren I Have fairly set down how far each of you have attained in the Mystery of Truth and surely we are all short of the glory which shall be revealed in the Temple or Church of God and there are such clouds rolling about each opinion that may darken it or something of it So as things are not so cleare as they are commonly taken by each of us If any man think he knoweth anything he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know So as the common ignorance and infirmity amongst us may be a rise for a common Vnity amongst us and seeing we all come out of Babylon though in several waies to the glorious Temple or Tabernacle which God hath sent down to be with men and walk thus diversly thither yet our severall and distinct goings are but like so many Travellers to the City of London some travell from the North some from the South and from the West some from the East yet all thither though too there may be some mistaking of the way in each because of the little light that is abroad The gathering of the Saints into the Heaven or Kingdom below in this day of Revelation is like the gathering at the last day which shall be all into one glorious Body though the gathering shall be from the four winds or ends of the Earth by the severall Trumpets or Angels One thing I have more Let us seek for the Spirit of wisdom and revelation to open to us the Mystery of the Scriptures called The Revelation for in that Book is the Prophecie of the Churches laid up and the seasons and times for Truth revealed Let us search and seek out by the Spirit of Iesus even that Iesus which was in the Vision and gave it out to Iohn for there is none found worthy to open the Book with Seals but the Lambe Surely in the Mystery of Angels Vials Sea of glasse with fire Temple with Smoke the Angell with the everlasting Gospell the Angell enlightning the Earth the Whore in skarlet and pretious pearles the Cup of abomination the Beast like a Lamb the Image of the Beast the Horus and Kings of the Earth the marke in the forehead and in the right hand the buying and selling the Tabernacle of God with men the first and second Resurrection the Ihronâ— of God the pure Chrystall River of water the Holy Ierusalem descending from God c. In these is much of the glory wrapped up and from these shall the Truth we contend for appeare to our further enlightning Yet one thing more We that are thus contenders for Ordinances for the Temple and the Vessels in it let us
in things immediately divine and spirituall The consciences of men are under a spirituall and immediate Interpreter of the Word even the Spirit of the Lord in all things of spirituall cognizance as every Scripture-truth or Truth in the Word is and this is not only strengthened and cleer from the Word but from a testimony which some when they read may know better then many others By the Clause According to the Word of God we understand so far as we doe or shall in our consciences conceive the same to be according to the Word of God Now each man standing thus ingaged in his owne particular and in his own proper conscience by a Covenant recommended and imposed each is bound to bring forth the evidence of their consciences in particular concerning this to which they are covenanted So as I or you being covenanted against Popery Heresie and according to the Word of God you and I stand bound by our own private consciences to reveale to the State who hath recommended such a Covenant unto us what our consciences interpret according to this Word against Popery or Heresie unlesse there could be one universall or publike infallible Interpreter of the Word of God and Truth who might determine concerning Heresie and the Word of God and whose determinations is as in the formerly inspired Apostolical teachers we may rest So being thus ingaged by Covenant we are at the same time by one and the same Act bound to liberty of conscience in these particulars of the things of God And if there should be any persecution for the pious modest and peaceable liberty so taken and practised whether would it not clearly and undeniably follow that our consciences are not under the Lord Iesus and his Spirit immediatly in the things of God but under the interpretations of men And surely that one Clause according to the Word of God is most providentially inserted for if we be so closely covenanted to the Word of God how tender ought we to be lest in this dark season of our discerning we oppose somthing of the Word and so in ignorance persecute what we covenant to maintaine I wish our Assembly would presse this equally with the Covenant in their Sermons Object But must every one be the Interpreter of the Covenant Answ Nay not every one in every thing The Magistracy in all things of a civill cognizance and in all spirituall things which go out from their meer spirituall condition into a morall offence as injustice or evill transgression into tumult or disturbance of publike or private peace actually and expressely not interpretatively for so the Nations interpreted the Iewes as troublers of the State and the Iewes Christ and his Disciples as movers of sedition The Papists and Prelats interpreted the Nonconformists or reproâ—ched Puritans as factious and tumultuous So as in all things of Morall Civill or Secular cognizance which the Magistrate hath clear rule for to walke by He ought to interpret and proceed by partly because he is the Legislator and so is the best Interpreter and can best resolve us in things of Law and publike liberty and in morals his duty lies out more cleerly but in meerly divine and spirituall interpretations of Truth and Gospell-mystery the Lord Jesus and the Spirit of Jesus Christ are both the Legislators or Law givers and Interpreters to the conscience Obj. But shall there be no power to compell consciences into Uniformity Answ I shall give light to this by propounding a Case Suppose the severall godly parties or beleevers were equally principled for persecution or non-toleration and were equally numbred and were equally strengthened by parties of Magistracie on their side what would come forth according to such principles I sigh to consider There would be edge against edge authority against authority power against power and all the State or Kingdome involved into bloud and confusion So as we must consider things according to their principles not according to their temporary or occasionall advantages Object But you give not enough to the Magistrate Answ Yea more then any He that gives him that which God hath given him gives more then any that pretend to give him the most The pretenders that bid for the Magistrate at this time are 1. They that put him as an help and government in the Church as some viz. they of the Erastian way 2. They that make use on him but as an help to the Church extrinsecally and by way of forraigne assistance as others viz. they of the Presbyteriall way 3. They that give him power over body goods over all morall and civill behaviours of men Professors and Beleevers of what sort soever of what opinion soever as I and the rest of our Brethren do praying with all manner of supplication that under them we may lead a peaceable godly and quiet life Obj. But why dare you not ingage civill Magistracy in Religion over consciences as some others do Answ Yea in all things morally good and evill God hath ingaged them and hath set the Law and Light of nature and conscience in all people to side with them condemning and excusing what they and their Law doth condemne and excuse and thus to beare witnesse with their dominion and power But in things of pure Gospel-mystery and Evangelically good or evill I dare not ingage them whatever others doe over consciences because I give more to their just power and because I dare not draw them into such principles which hath broken more Magistracy then all the other plots and devices of men For things of Worship which are laid up in the pure simple mystery in the Light of the Spirit not of nature as all meer Gospell-mystery is to ingage the Magistrates Sword into these is rather a way to dash them against every mans conscience and so in time to lay in a fatall power or a fatall suffering We know that power which makes Kingdoms soundest in their Dominion and most lasting is the truest and wholsomest and surely that which ingages them lest into that part of the soule the conscience which can lest endure to be oppressed is the safest and most peaceable To my Reverend learned Freind M. LEY One of the Assembly of Divines at Westminster Author of a Book called The Resolution of the New Quere published by Master Saltmarsh SIR I Shall give you a publike account according to your publike charge in your leafe concerning me That I intended to make you my Censor for some Papers which I did not publish Page 1. Sir those Papers were an Answer to Master Fullers last Book and the Question about Reformation betwixt him and me being so out of all Question as Master Herle serveth and â—e as I heard being dead made me rather put up my Arrows into their Quiver then shoot them at such a mark For my contending with you in this I hope it is but as that of Paul and Barnabas and Paul and Peter a contention of Brethren not
We are not of those that speake evill of dâ—gâ—iâ—ies or despâ—se government unlesse you count your Presbyterie to be that government and dignitie spoken on by the Spirit and that remaines to be proved That which cannot be proved to be a Scripture-government cannot challenge a Scripture-law to defend or secure it You say If the Byas run most towards government it is but as it should be Yea if towards a Scripture-government else it is as it should not be and not as it should be You say The Bishops government 's put down some must be set up and that is Presbytery But there is one set up already a civill Parliament arie government and will you set up another above that or cordinate with that Will you set up one government to rule another or tutour another And must you needs set up as large a Dominion as the eivâ—ll Power hath Must our Presbytery be full as ample as high and supream as our Parliament Will no lesse territory or Kingdom serve it but all England Whole Nations Must Christs government be just as broad and long as the worlds You find not the golden Read for the Temple of that length Now Reader judg which government affects Dominion Which brings in whole Nations under the Scepter of it Poore Scripture-government can be content to sit down in a Village To the Church in thy house saith the Spirit In a City as Corinth and over but a few there the Saints only in fellowship to the Church in Corinth In a Countrey not over a Countrey so the seven Churches in Asia not to the Church of Asia or the Church Asia a Church taking in halfe part of the world Sure if Christ would have had such a Nationall compreliensive Church he could have converted King and Princes first and they should have given up their Scepterâ— and Kingdoms to Jesus Christ in the way of a Presbyterian Nay it ought to have been so Jesus Christ was bound in the way of righteousnesse to have be un the practice and modellâ— to us over whole Kingdoms having not left it in precept in the whole Gospell and we ought either to have had practice or precept to order and command us in what we obey You say If other Truths be set by it is by those that so oppose Government and not by the Presbyteriall I see the Presbytery must be in no fault Happy men that have nothing but Truth on their side You wish I had more caution in my mind and paper and â— shorter Refutation had served Cautions are not amisse both for you and me and I think you had need of more caution of the two by how much more vast and nationall the Government is you manage You that put yokes upon whole Nations in a day had need to have the cautions of a yeers provision laid in before hand And for your Refutation of my paper do not beare witnesse of yourâ—selfe let Truth judge bet wixt us and let the Reader pray for a spirit of discerning to judge both what is Truth and which is Truth that which you or I affirme Nor will I say I have made here a Refutation of yours If I have done well What have I that I have not received And if I have not the Lord enlighten and enable me to refute my selfe Master Ley's Resolution pag. 36 37 38. To that of his that the matteriall Temple was more clearly left and known then the Gospell paterne c. Answer 1. He would not be thought to side with Sanballat and Tobijah and so endeavours to shew some considerable difference 2. If it beâ—toâ— soon now for the Government will he set a time for it when it will be seasonable or will he have it stay till it be a matter all building or till we have inspired Prophets 3. It cannot be of too quick dispatch if we set it up by the dictates of the Holy Ghost in the New Testament nor the determination sudden if after consideration with Scriptures with the best Divines and collation of the exactest paterns after long debates in the Assembly of Divines where the dissenting and liberty to object and lastly received by Parliament 4. By the builders speciall regard hath been had to Jesus Christ for Foundation c. And now by Master Saltmarsh his consent the work may go on c. Reply You say I would not seem to side with Sanballat and Tobljah You say true I would not But every building is not Temple-work And though I would not with knowledge hinder the Temple of the living God yet if another kind of frame were in building I would do my best to hinder and be no Sanballat neither But they are Sanballats not whom man but whom the Lord counts so But surely they hinder more that set up another kind of Temple then Christs then he that advises to look well that all be right and Temple-worke that is set up To the difference I made of the materiall and Gospell-paterns you say nothing and that is the only considerable It may be as you said by me you are best able to deale with the other You say I should set a time then for the setting it up Yea I shall set you a time yet not in mine own authority but Christ's When your Patern is all Gospell and your people all qualified in that Gospellpatern then is my time for setting up and then is Christ's time too Nor would I stay you for a materiall building as you say You know I call you on to the Gospell I am very far from turning you back to the Law I call you on to Christ I would not turn you back to Solomon And for the inspired Prophets you tell me I stay for and would have you stay too Is not that a very Gospell-way to stay for the Spirit 's coming into the servants of the Lord Take heed of denying inspired Disciples You know it is part of the fâ—lâ—illing of the great Prophecie Acts 2. Indeed some of the Prelates many of them being uninspired themselves and having little of the Spirit or none would needs say therefore All inspirations and Spirituall enlightnings c. were ended in the Church because ended in them and because they were so carnall themselves they thought none was Spirituall And you remember how they made Laws even against the Spirit in Prayer I speake thus only to remember you who spoke most against inspiration and the Spirit lest you may let fall some words which may be taken up by some of that way to countenance them in their Invectives Not but that I esteem of you as one inspired your selfe in a measure and having the Spirit of God in you therefore I know the Spirit will be very tender in opposing the Spirit You say you ought to dispatch the Government because you have followed the dictates of the Holy Ghost of the Assembly and Parliament Then let me put one Question Why is it not called Christs Government Why
hath it not a Jus divinum a Divine Right put upon it if all be of the Holy Ghost in it But I would not mistake you you say only that all is by the dictate of the Holy Ghost of the Assembly and Parliament So it is but part then by your own confession of the Holy Ghost the rest is of the Assembly and Parliament You say The builders have had speciall regard to Jesus Christ the Foundation I will not suspect the Counsels and Debates of any of the builders I know the Disciples of Christ were true Disciples though they had not all of the Spirit at one time which they had at another I hope and I pray that the Lord will make up to the builders what of the Spirit he hath not given them that they may both see to build right and see where they have builded wrong and so pull down againe as well as set up And whereas you say The building may go on by Master Saltmarsh his own consent I say your building will go on it seems whether Master Saltmarsh consent or no. Master Ley in his capacity is better able to put it on at this time then Master Saltmarsh is to put it off to another time unlesse the Lord who is above all and hath the mighty even the Princes of the earth to command work for his own glory above all that we can or think Master Ley's Resolution pag. 38 39 40. To the second Objection and Answer of Heresies and Schisms and so they might have done from Iohn's first Sermon he saith 1. Why doth he begin with Iohns first Sermon Were not the Esseans c. Hereticks and Schisma icks See Epiphanius c. 2. He makes Pauls Epistles the terminus ad quem which from John's first Sermon to the last make up Twenty nine yeers After the Epistles he brings in the sending the Spirit c. which was but five yeares after the first Sermon of John Baptist 3. Before the end of the Epistles that Government was not which we find in Scripture and if so the Church-Government was not long suspended 4. Nor would it prejudice our expedition People of that Age could not be so easily gathered as with us they may be 5. What was long in establishing in Primitive times cannot be said to be hastily done now after so many discussions and deliberate resolutions Reply You say first Why begin I for Hereticks and Schismaticks from John's first Sermon I begin there because there began the mystery of the Gospell And yet I shew you that no Government began with that Gospell manifestation by which I made appeare that if Government had been of such morall necessity why was it not given out with the Gospels first giving out Now you prove in a chronologicall discourse the space of time from Johns Sermon to Pauls Epistle to make the time appeare for Government And after you have summed up all the time and periods and find it no two or three yeers work you conclude People of that age could not be so easily gathered as now Nor the long establishing then to be an hasty establishing now And now after all this discourse and ravellings out of time from Johns Sermon c. What have you gained Not that the Government was soon setled Then you have proved much to my advantage and in a clearer and fuller computation then I did the contrary So as you have only been taking some learned paines if you well observe and the Reader well observe you to prove that the Government at first was not suddenly cast into modell nor brought forth in practise which is the very thing I aimed at and truly your pains in it have been more exact then mine and I thank you for it But you say It ought not to be so now nor can it be said to be hastily done now that was done so long ago You say true in that But you know the same Spirit must reveale it that formed it and it formed it at first by degrees and the way of Revelation hath been more year's then the first farming reckon but your Antichristian years as exactly as you have done your first Christian and Primitive yeares and you may be more satisfied So as all both the first Revelation of it from Prophesies and the latter from Antichristianism makes all for the not hastening which I aimed at Indeed if you can as infallibly assure us this forme and modell is the very forme then given out it were very true that you say That it cannot be said to be hastily done now what was done so long agoe viz. If it be that very one which was done so long ago For your exception against me concerning my placing the giving of the Spirit so late if you interpret sense by the strict order of words you will lose many a Scripture truth in the words as you well know Master Ley's Resolution Page 40 41. To that of Heresies c. he saith What if they do not ster up their Patrons against the State c. but they busily poyson the soules of the people and shall they if as Paul Best be suffered to blaspheme and reproach and perturb the publike Peace An Indulgence much like old Elies c. If Truth be not more precious then Peace why doth our Saviour say He came not to send peâ—ce And why do the Fathers contend so against the Arrians about a letter And why we so with the Romish Religion rather then be at peace with them For that of morall transgressions he would have the Magistrates set on Set on By whom We have not such meane thoughts of the Magistrate as to make mention of him in such terms of disparagement And for all his Disciplines regulating men for religious walking there will be worke enough for the Magistrate to bring them under civill tryall for câ—ntumaâ—ie c. Reply You say What If hereâ—ies stir not up they poyson souls If they poyson let the Gospel-antidote be applied then and no other way which the Gospell will not beare noâ— allow there is the sword of the Spirit and weapons not carnall but mighty and spirituall For that of old Elies indulgences which you speak on you are still looking upon Moses though you tell us of Christ Make the Kingdome of Israel and of England the same a Iewish and Christian State the same and then we shall allow you both Elies sin and his sons maintenance by tythes offerings You say Truth is more precious then peace yet there is a peace precious as well as Truth even the Peace of Christ as well as the Truth of Christ But to the businesse You would prove Truth to be precious to the disadvantage of Peace and therefore you bring in the Fathers against the Arrians and us against the Papists and Christ against Peace But what would you prove Would you prove that truth ought to be established against peace and peace to be no way to truth Surely truth and
peace doe meet together nay they are so much one as there is even a truth in peace He that was Truth it self could say My Peace I leave with you But What of the contention spoken on of the Fathers and â—â— c. If there be any quarrelling for Truth either by the Fathers or us but in a Gospel-way we are not excusable neither doth Christ speak of truths drawing swords but of swords drawn against truth which is no Argument for you When Peter would draw a sword in the defence of truth Christ bid him put it up So far is he against your way of defending truth You say By whom should Magistrates be set on and that you cannot speak in such disparaging words By whom be set on By the legislative power by the Parliament The Parliament can set on their respective Committees Iustices c. and is this any disparagement I speak of subordinate Magistrates not of the supream You say There will be worke for the Magistrate enough to punish the contumacious c. That is in English the Presbytery will keep the Magistracy doing and now who disparages the Magistrate Who set them on work Who makes them their Deputy-punishers Nay Who is the Satan to whom the excommunicate are delivered It is an expression not much besides your principles and who disparages the Magistrate in that Master Ley's Resolution Page 41 42. To that of Truth being otherwise armed from Heaven I answer We thinke it not meet to divide the subservient means from the supreme power nor the exercise of Discipline from his assistance who can make it effectuall the sword of God and Gideon To that of the imputation of jealousie c. There is a godly jealousie which would set up as many securities as may be against Heresie and impiety The faulty jealousie is theirs that would stiffle the Government but there is a fear which we professe of Gods anger for connivance and communion with hereticall men c. There is in some an aversenesse to Heresie in a trne zeal and love of God There be many other causes of jealousie but I will take but that one of the Lords and Commons p. 43. If Master Saltmarsh â—ad well considered who were engaged c. he would not have undervalued their piety and prudence to compare them with Papists and Prelates I will conclude with a peece of his own politick advice c. Vpon such principles is Church-Government ordained for his Text out of the Revelation Rev. 18. 1. As he began so he ends with mis-application of Scripture Reply You say you cannot divide Discipline from his assistance who can make it effectuall That is from the Magistrates This is a signe without further Argument that you do not hold your government for Christs because it cannot be effectuall of it self without help from below and the world and to another power then its own nor is the sword of God and Gideon any faire and just proof for joyning Presbytery and Magistracy it joynes only God and the Magistrates You say Your godly jealousie will set up as many securities as may be But then they are warrantable and Gospel-wayes of security That is no godly jealousie which sets up other wayes as Herod killing all the children to secure his Kingdome David dissembling to escape Iacob to get a blessing there is jealousie but no godly jealousie nor warrantable security So to secure any way though of truth by a power not allowed on in the Gospell as no such compulsive power is in your way is not to be jealous with a godly jealousie though I deny not but some of those may be godly who are so jealous but not in that You say that some fear Gods anger for their communion with Hereticks c. You know all such feare is only warrantable in the Church not in the world It is not so with the Nations now as with the Iews Now if we have not communion with them in the Nation we must goe out of the world But What communion is this you meane that will bring Gods anger You have your liberty to withdraw to separate as they from you If it be nationall or civill communion then you pluck up the tares before the time of harvest But whom you esteem Hereticks they it may be think they have as good Scriptures to esteem you so and this is Heretick for Hereticks interpretation against interpretation And since there is only a sufficiency but no infallibility now as before since there is no Apostles for interpretation as at first for Revelation why do we thus cry out Hereticks Hereticks the Sword the Sword Let me put one Question here Suppose those you call Hereticks were of equall number to you and both of you equally numbred with Magistrates and both of you equally principled for persecution and both equally calling out for the Magistrates Sword What clashing of swords would there be What edge against edge What authority against authority What power against power What bloudy doings What sad workings What confusion would there be This is an Image of your Incorporation of your two powers that you so plead for in this kind If we were equally principled and armed for persecution as you are and acted by your spirit Ah what a Kingdome would here be You say Some have aversenesse to Heresie in a true zeale to God These are but generall notions of Heresie Every thing is not Heresie that is called so And for true zeal to God in that aversenesse all this is granted if that be Heresie indeed But how if it be such a zeal as Paul saith the â—ewes had a zeal but not according to knowledge how if it be such a zeal to God as crucified the Sonne of God and such a zeal there hath been we know The Iews did much in zeal to Truth even against Truth But you close up with that of the Lords and Commons in an Ordinance c. I am afraid these are such proofs as you intend most in your Presbytery to make your supplement to Scripture from Authority and so to make us beleeve what you cannot perswade us to beleeve and to make it out by an Ordinance what you want by Scripture But I hope that honourable Senate will rather let you argue from the Scripture against us then from their Authority But I have not to doe here with answering Ordinances of Parliament I contend not but submit to them in every Ordinance for the Lords sake nor doth my Argument lie against any thing of theirs but yours I dare not undervalue them to count them as Parties but Iudges in out difference I appeal to the Parliament as to Caesar nor in it a faire proofe of Truth to draw the Magistrates Sword out of the Scabbard You say You wonder considering who was ingaged I would so undervalue them to compare them with Papists and Prelates I did consider who was ingaged a Parliament c. and had I not highly valued
will have a body sutable pure Not only is the visible body of Christ thus pure but every truth of Christ bears the Image of Christ every truth of his hath something of himself in it who is Truth it self I am the Truth saith Christ every beam of light is light every truth is a sparkle of truth it self Thus we may judge of truth by what of Christ we see in it They who break a Chrystall may see their face in every peâ—â—e and parcell so in every thing of Christ there is an Image of Christ either of his purity or holinesse or love or humility or meeknesse c. The Presbyteriall Government and the Worlds of the same equall Dominion VVHat kind of Church-government is that which will set up it selfe with the Civill and State-government even co-ordinate with it if not to the ruling and tutoring of it which hath as large a Dominion as the other which is as full as ample as high and as supream which no lesse territorie then a Kingdome will serve then a whole Nation Muâ—â— Christs Government be just as large as the worlds which Government affects Dominion which brings in whole Nations under the Scepter of it This or that little one in the Scripture which sits downe sometimes in a house to the Church in thy house sometimes in a City as Corinth and over a few there to the Church in Corinth in a Countrey not over a Countrey to the seven Churches in Asia not to the Church of Asia or the Church Asia a Church a fourth part of the world Sure if this Nationall and comprehensive Church were the patern we should walk by Why did not Christ begin first at Kings and Princes and so bring Nations and Kingdomes and make Churches of them But we see no such thing he begins lower at the base and weake and foolish and few and raises up his Kingdome from the bottome of the world and not from the top or pinacle of Princes Kingdomes and Nations The Nationall and Congregationall Church-covenant both lawfull or both unlawfull HOw can a Church-covenant be unlawfull if the Nationall-covenant be warrantable and why doe any plead against that who are for this A Covenant is condemned in the Congregationall Church and yet commended in the Nationall Now How can a Church-covenant be both true and false Is a great Church-covenant lawfull and a little one unlawfull a Nationall Church-covenant warrantable and a Congregationall unwarrantable But Covenantâ— in their nature were a dispensation more of the Olâ— Testamenâ— strain a Nationall Church had a Covenant to gather them up into their Nationall way of worship and were under the Laws of an externall Pedagogâ—â— and now the spirituall dispensation being come even the Gospell of Iesus Christ there is a fulnesse of spirit let out upon the Saints and people of God which gather them up more closely spiritually and cordally then the power of any former dispeâ—sation could the very Covenant of God himself of which the former were typicall and Propheticall comes in nakedly upon the spirits of his and drawes them in and is a law upon their inward parts sweetly compelling in the consciences with power and yet not with force with compulsion and yet with consent and surely where this Covenant of God hath its kindly and spirituall operation there would need no such externall supplement as before but because of the hardnesse of our hearts it is thus from the beginning it was not so the spirit tyed up thousands together then Let States then have any prudentiall security any designe of sound wisdome to consoraâ—e people together but let the Church only be gathered up by a Law of a more glorious and transcendent nature by the pure Covenant of God himselâ— with the souls of his We receive and give out Truth by parts MEn are to be judged and followed according to the degrees of light they receive and if any have some light that light is not to be used as an advantage to all their other darknesse as if all their darknesse might passe under that one beame of light The light rises upon the Prophets as the Sun upon the Earth it is dawning and morning and noon with them Thus came the Gospell Iohn preached Repentance Iesus Christ Faith and Repentance Iohn came with Water Christ with the Spirit and first in Parables and after in power the Apostles they knew first Christ for Messiah then that he should suffer and die and rise againe and then the Kingdome of God Luther knew first that Indulgences were unwarrantable and after that Popery was Antichristianism and Rome was Babylon and works could not justifie and after conscience was not to be compelled in spirituals Thus we grow from Faith to Faith to the fulnesse of stature in Christ to a perfect man in him growing with the increasings of God The Kingdome of God is like a little leven like a grain of mustard seed So as while we see but things in degrees we are neither to be too sudenly admired by others nor our selves All Covenanters are bound to contribute to Religion as well as State VVHosoever hath Covenanted is bound to assist the Publike to his utmost in every Condition and Calling and Place and Way accordingly from naturall abilities to his relations from one relation to another even to all to that of Christian and Spirituall his Prayers Counsell Notions with Countributions of all sorts Civill Naturall Temporall Spirituall He is bound by Covenant to discover malignity in State in Church enemies to God as well as man endeavours to any thing of Popery and Prelacy under what visage habit form of Words of Doctrine Discipline be it Presbytery or whatever if repugnant to the Word of God as we are perswaded in conscience who have personally Covenanted The breathings and speakings of the Spirit are not to be quenched Every season is for the Lords service in season and out of season Watchman watchman what of the night The Spirit is powred upon sons and daughters Synods of men are not infallible Not because more men more of the Spirit The liberty of the subject is that of soule as well as body and that of soul more deare precious glorious The liberty wherein Christ hath made us free Be not ye then the servants of men in the things of God We are to try Truth and so receive it in its Degrees ENquiries for Truth ought to be according to Scripture-rule and that rule lights us on to the triall of all things and proving spirits and judging between the precious and the vile The water that is mingled with the wien the Tares with the Wheat will require sound tryall lest we make but an exchange of one Error for another The Apostles waited for the Spirit the Bereans searched the Word we are bidden to trie and prove The Prophecies of seducers false Christs Antichrist with lying wonders are as reall cautions given out by the Spirit The examples of former Ages Luther
c. were enlightned by degrees Angels who see by vision see but as God reveales much lesse men who take in Truths by spirituall reasoning as well as revelation Arise why tariest thou is a Text only for him who had such a Vision as Paul to obey by and such a Vision as Ananias had to Preach by No Church-way INDEPENDENCIE THe Beleevers for the Church-way falsly called Independents they hold on Christ for a spirituall Head on the Magistrate for their civil Head on the Body of Christ above and below in the communion of Saints here their Dependency is spirituall Ministeriall communicative not Classicall Provinciall Nationall Their power is for one another not over one another They cannot mingle or embody with those in a Way not of Truth Their separation is not from men but manners not from beleevers themselves but their practices and corruptions Nor go they out but they are called out Come out of her my people c. And thus the Jews were Independent to the Nations the Christians to the Jews the Reformed to the Papists the Non-conformists to the Prelaticall and these to the Non-conformists A spirit of Love and Meeknesse becomes Beleevers THey that write not as enemies are likely to prove better friends to the Truth because they raise not so much dust with their striving as others to blind one anothers sight Those spirits which cast men sometimes into the fire sometimes into the water are not from Christ it were happy the Lord would cast out those and let a more gospell-Gospell-spirit walke amongst us we might then sooner attaine to that of the Apostle To walke by the same rule so far as we have attained together till the Lord reveale and the stronger to beare with the weake and to please one another to edification rather then our selves in all things wherein the Lord may not be displeased in the way of his dispensation I know no advantages we have got but the reviling our selves before our enemies as well as one another And oh why do we tell it Gath and publish it in the streets of Askalon to make the uncircumcised triumph Was the Lord in the wind or in the fire or in the still small voyce when he spake to the Prophet only in the still voyce How was the Lord heard in the time of his Indignation Man heard the voyce of the Lord God walking in the garden in the coole of the day Oh! could we find out the coolest times to speake and write one to another in and not in the heat of the day as we do When a State-conscience is fully perswaded doubtfull and so sinning IT is with a Publike or State-conscience as it is a personall or particular conscience What is done must be done in Faith or else there is weaknesse doubting and sin Now where there is not a full consent and perswasion from the Word of faith there cannot be faith properly and where there is not a Word of faith for that Conscience to be grounded upon there cannot be a purely and spiritually full perswasion And one may question whether in spirituals as in Civils Votes and Voyces are to make Laws for in the Gospell we find that Divine Laws have their subsistance there without the Vote of any and that is only to be a Law or Truth in the Church and Kingdom of Saints not what is so in the coâ—mon consent or voyce but what is a Law in the very Gospell-truth of it If the Laws of truth were founded as the Laws of Civill-States in a meere Legâ—slative power then Popery hath had as good assurance as any they have had most vâ—ces most Counsels and so Arrianâ—sm when the world went after it Post-script The Testimony of Salmasius the approved German writer of the Presbyteriall way and employed by the States of Holland to write THat the Baptism in the name of the Father Son and Holy Ghost is not that way of Baptism practised by the Apostles The Baptisme of Apostolicall use and institution is in the Rivers not with invocation of the three Persons seeing the Apostles Baptized only in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ In his owne Latine thus Baptisma in aquis perennibus Apostolici instituti moris sed non invocatio Trinitatis super Baptizatum cum Apostli in solo nomine Iesu Baptizarent Salmasius in apparatu ad libros de primatu papae fol. 193. Salmasius his Testimony against the present Presbyteriall-way DUobus modis haâ— Independentia ecclesiarum accipi potest si vel respectum non habeant ad vicinas ullas ecclesias aut si non pendeant ab authoritate aliquot Ecclesiarum simul in unam Classem vel Synodum conjunctarum cujus conventus partem ipsae faciant Prior modus similior reperitur primitivae ecclesiae praxi consueâ—udini ac usui quo voluntaria haec 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 et communio inter ecclesias fuit Posterior magis convenit eum instituto quod postea juris humani dispositione introductum est Hoc posteriore modo lâ—berâ—as particularium ecclesiarium magis immmuta videtur quam priore Sed quod ab initio fuerit voluntatis postea factum est juris Et hoc jus sane positivum atque ecclesiasticum humanumque non divinum juris est quidem divini ut una siâ— ecclesia christi unitas autem ejus non gregalium aut concorporalâ—um plurium adunata collectione consistat sed in fidei ac doctrinâ— unanimi consensione Pag. 265 266 in apparatu In English thus THis Independency of Churches may be taken two waies Either as not having respect to any neighbour Churches or as not depending on the authority of â—ome Churches that are joyned in some Classis or Synod of which the Churches themselves may make a paâ—t The former way is found to be more like the practise custome and use of the Primitive Church whereby this voluntary communion was among thâ— Churches The latter way doth more agree with the institution which afterwards was introduced by a humane authority By this latter way the liberty of particular Churches seem to be lâ—sse diminished then by the former But that which from the beginning was arbitrary afterwards is made necessary as a Law This Law truly is positive and ecclesiasticall aâ—d humane not divine 'T is â—y a divine Law that the Church of Christ should be one but the unity of it doth not consist in the union oâ— collection of many that are of the â—ame flock or body but in the unanimous consent agreement in faith and doctrine Page 65 66. in apparatu FINIS THese Groanes for Liberty out of Smectymnuus his owne mouth I approve to be printed Feb. 27. 1645. IOHN BACHILER If any are ignorant who this Smectymnuus is Stephen Marshall Edmund Calamy Thomas Young can tell you Matthew Newcomen William Spurstow GROANES FOR LIBERTY PSESENTED From the Presbyterian formerly Non-conforming Brethren reputed the ablest and most learned among them in some Treatises called
as these are is this faire dealing with the State You have brought forth before Israel and the Sun many pretended sins and crimes of your Brethren Suppose they should write by your Copy and bring forth the Aslembly-sinnes the crimes of all those of your way of all the Divines and others that you take in and rake back into the ashes of their unregenerate condition keep Almanackes for the yeares and dayes of their faylings watch their haltings in all things they say or doe tell all the Stories of them they heare what would the next generation thinke of their Book and yours At this rate of writing they would not reade one honest man of all their forefathers yet this is your course and method I have done for this time and I hope all that are not inchanted with the Gorgons-head of Hereticks and Schismaticks and Church of England as your owne Smectymnians say will reade and judge I had said more to ye had you printed us more Reason and lesse Reviling and something more then Stories and Winter-tales And for our Licenser whom you so rayle at he is so much a friend to all the world of beleevers as to give them the Scripture-liberty of proving and trying all things and not to silence the Presse as some would and as the Prelates did silence the Pulpit And now let any age weighing all the differences excepting the Blasphemies c. and the nature of them nakedly without aggravations and fallacy of words bring forth a Book printed in such Letters of bloud as this Gangraena bind up all the Oxford Aulicusses the Mountagues the Pocklingtons and see if this Gangraena doe not exceed them all this is Persecution and Prelacy sublimate And for all this I would not have the Civill power drawne against you if we had all the Magistrates on our side but rather that you may in the flowings of a more heavenly spirit with your head of waters and your eyes a fountaine of teares write against your owne Book and let the world see that Men in these times are not infallible as you all conclude but may mistake their Brethren for Enemies some Truths for Errours and Zeale for Persecution as the very Jewes did when they crucified Christ as they thought for Blasphemy And some shall kill ye saith Christ and thinke they doe God good service A Parallel between the Prelacy and the Presbytery Quaere VVHether if we should reply to M. Edwards in his owne words and as Salomon saith answer him according to his c. we not compare things as followeth and trace up their proceedings into the very mystery of Prelacy 1. The Prelates were ordained Ministers by the Bishops Quaere Whether may it not be said the Divines that sit now are Ordained by the same power of Bishops to be Ministers and so by that power ordaine others 2. The Prelates when they had made Canons procured the power of the State to impose them upon all the Kingdome Quaere Whether may it not be said the Divines now get the same power to what they decree and accordingly impose them upon the Kingdome 3. The Prelates composed one great Service-booke for direction to Uniformity of worship according as they had ordered under penalties yet without the least word of Scripture to prove the truth of any thing in it Quaere Whether may it not be said Divines have composed one great Booke accordingly now for the like Uniformity viz. the Directory to be observed under fines and penalties and yet without the least word or tittle of Scripture to prove the truth of any thing in it 4. The Prelates ordered that from that Book Prayers should be read to the people Quaere Whether may it not be said the Divines now have not cast the Prayers of the Spirit into such Formes and Methods that a little invention will make them as stinted currant and legible Formes as before and accordingly read in divers places 5. The Prelates counted all that would not conforme to them Schismaticall and Hereticall Quaere Whether may it not be said the Divines now count not all so that will not be uniforme with them 6. The Prelates forbad all to Preach and Print that did not Preach and Print for their way of worship and Government Quaere Whether may it not be said the Divines now would not have all hindred from Pulpit and Presse that will not be of way of Worship and Government with them 7. The Prelates possessed themselves of the States power and favour Quaere Whether may it not be said the Divines now wholly labour after the same interest both in Parliament and other Councles 8. The Prelates had their Licensers to stop all that write against their power and pompe Quaere Whether may it not be said the Divines now labour to ingrosse the power of licensing only to themselves 9. The Prelates had for part of their Government Fines Pillories Whips Imprisonment Quaere Whether may it not be said the Divines now have those very things for part of theirs 10. The Prelates had Parishes for their Churches and Tythes for their maintenance Quaere Whether may it not be said the Divines now have the same Parishes now for Churches the same Tythes for maintenance 11. The Prelates called all other meetings but their Parish-meetings Conventicles Quaere Whether may it not be said the Divines now call the Churches and people that meet now together apart from them Conventicles as formerly 12. The Prelates called the Non-conformists factious troublers of the State Quaere Whether may it not be said the Divines now doe accordingly call any that write or oppose their Presbytery factious and State-troublers 13. The Prelates ever accused their Non-conforming Brethren to the King and Councell Quaere Whether may it not be said the Divines now accordingly accuse their Non-conforming Brethren to the Parliament and other Councels 14. The Prelates had a designe to send all their Non-conformed Brethren to strange Kingdomes as New-England Quaere Whether may it not be said the Divines now endeavour to send their Non-conforming Brethren to other places out of the Kingdome 15. The Prelates ingrossed all the Preaching and preferring Divines to all places of honour and popularity in the Kingdome to themselves Quaere Whether may it not be said the Divines now doe accordingly preferre to all places of publike trust honour and imploiment as Universities Navy Armies Garrison-Towns Counties Cities c 16. The Prelates would not suffer men whom they called Lay-men to speake of the Scriptures Quaere Whether may it not be said the Divines now doe forbid and contemne all Lay-mens gifts in the same manner 17. The Prelates would not suffer any to goe from the Parish-Minister Quaere Whether may it not be said the Divines now accordingly labour to have all keep to their Parishes 18. The Prelates called Truths which they received not New Lights Errours Quaere Whether may it not be said the Divines now accordingly call all things they
only to the old man not to him who after God is created in righteousnesse and true holinesse To the 8. Nor am Ilesse a Disputant in Divinity because against Forms of Art and Logick as you say I may dispute in Christs Schoole though refused in the Schoole of Tyrannus And if you will challenge me in any poynt of Philosophy I shall not refuse you there in Logick or Forms of Art They are Forms only for the wisdom of men not the wisdom of God Nor dare I take my discoveries of Christ from Reason nor seek the glory of him in Forms so much below him and fashion the Creator like to the Creature who is God blessed for ever You and I must die more to vaine Philosophie to the wisdom of the Greek to the rudiments of the world I allow Learning its place any where in the kingdoms of the world but not in the Kingdom of God To the 9. For my being a Vbiquitary as you say in beleefe and your proofe of this from the severall Opinions stated in my Book Can you be so unfaithfull to that Book Can you who would be counted an Orthodox and a Divine thus force and compell those Opinions upon me or not rather upon the Paper only where they were printed Because I stated the Opinions of man am I therfore a man of all those Opinions The best is the world may convince you of this and of my purpose in that And now you are thus unfaithfull in a little I may suspect you for more Are you one of those who pretend to be in the Mount with God and to give Laws for Religion Can we trust you in the more excellent mysteries of the Father while you trifie thus and deceive the Brethren To the 10. For my being an Antinomian If to say we serve not in the oldnesse of the Letter but in the newnesse of the Spirit If to say The Law was given by Moses but grace and truth by Jesus Christ If to say We are not under the Law but under Grace If to say We are delivered from our enemies that we might serve him without fearâ— in holinesse and righteousnesse If to say The Commandement is holy qust and good If to say Shall we sin that Grace may abound God forbid If this be Antinomianism I am one of that sort of Antinomians I know no other for my part though you have filled the world with a noise if this be Heresie so worship we the God of our Fathers nor have I mis-quoted any but only singled out that truth from many in one leafe before they spoyled it in the next and like Pilate who asking only what truth was would not tarry by it but departed To the 11. And for my unstablenesse If to be sometimes darknesse and now light in the Lord If to put off the old man with the former lusts and to put on the new If to come out of Babylon when the Spirit cals If to adde to faith vertue to vertue patience to patience godliness c. If to grow in the encreasings of God to a fulnesse of stature in Christ If leaving things that are behind and pressing to things that are before be unstablenesse let me be alwaies thus changing till he who can only change our vile bodies fashion me like unto his glorious body To the 12. Nor do I glory I hope in the quick dispatch of what I do but do not you as well over deliberate as I over dispatch and glory in that But are you no better acquainted with the Spirit in the things of God Are we to be ever consulting with flish and bloud did the Disciples and Brethren when they spake the Word of God tugge first amongst so many Schoole-men so many Fathers so many moderne Divines so many Commentators so many old Poets as you do Or rather only with the Word and Spirit and power of Christ and for that of your Poetrie and your Brewer I desire not to shew so much of the old-man or former corruption as to sparkle so lightly with you To the 13. For my Interposing being no delay to the Government as you say Why do you say then in other places I presented you with a former Book against M. Saltmarsh his Remora And again Mr Saltmarshs Quaere to retard the establishment I pray now be friends first with your self before you be too much an enemie to the truth or to me and though I cannot stand in the way of the establishment I am the least in my Fathers house I am but as the fliâ— upon the wheele yet truth is mighty and of that power as it can weigh heavie upon your Chariot-wheels when you would be driving into the red Sea of persecution and pursuing Israel To the 14. Whereas you say you are wished to be better imployed then in writing they are your friends indeed that wish so you cannot be worse imployed I am sure then in speaking ill of your brethren in advancing your selves in Lordino it over the heritage in tryumphing upon the vantage ground of your place and power in supplicating and at the same time judging the Magistrate or in a word intreating them that they may rule not you or your Presbytery but whom you allow them from your Presbytery And for others undertaking me as many as please for I feare not an host nor a multitude of pen-men I see more for us then against us I know this present Presbytery may have many pensioners there are such great livings of hundreds a yeers to spice the Government the silver shrines had many that cried great was Diana in the Ephesians Master Leys Treatise 1. THe subordination of Assemblies is made good by the learned Book of Mr Rutherford against the Congregationall Independency 2. The subordinate Presbyteries are not Churches out of Churches as yours are not in such singularity with free choyce more conveniencies in Parishes more for preservation of Peace more agreeable to the Apostles Acts 15. more authorized by Parliament That tythes are spoken against by those that scruple not at slander or sacriledeg that they usurp upon God and his Ministers that alienate them from his Worship and Service That Old men are more honourable then the Young therefore called Senators Elders Sages that Dreams are more glorious then Visions because of more Communion with God in the sleep then waking and because of many Divine things revealed in dreames and that John was old when he had his vision That it is lawfull to jest at mis-application of Scripture by Gods example in Gen. by Eliahs by others c. That the other Church-Government comes not under such tryals of the Parliament as Presbytery but is set up without their authority That Gospell-patternes are as much in the Letter as the Legall because written That Mr. Prinn Dr. Bastwick Mr Burton Mr Lilburne were cruelly used by the Bishops Mr Lilburne whipped from Fleet-Bridge to Westminster so cruelly
the Presbytery before ye in the Prelacy Therefore consider things 10. That these Ministers though some of them were old Non-conformists and have a power of God in them which I desire to love under any Forme yet according to their Interests they are not so nor to the flesh they are not so and it is their old man I write against not their new so far as they are men and so far as they are persecuters so far as they are lovers of gaine not of godlinesse so far as they are accusers of their Brethren so far as they are in the Forme of Godlinesse not in the power Therefore consider these men are not all spirit and truth we are not to call one of them Iubiter nor the other Mercurius They are men of like passions with us and ye and the worst I wish saving their humour of Persecution is that the Lord would make them love us in the Spirit and we shall in all love allow them their Formes To Mr. GATAKER SIR I Hope I shall answer all things materiall in your Book but your Margin I shall not meddle with I observe you commonly in all your books fill that with things and Authors of little value to Christ crucified As in your last leafe where you quote Sophecles the Poet comparing your selfe to an old prancing horse I should not rebuke your yeers but that I find you Comicall and Poeticall and for my part I am now ashamed to own those Raptures though I am young having tasted straines of a more glorious Spirit how much more you that are old and call your selfe a Divine ought not to have any fruit in those things I hope I shall be in no more passion with you than with your Brother of the Assembly Mr Ley. I write to edifie not to conquer nor to teach others but that we may be all taught of God JOHN SALTMARSH To the Author of the PLEA for the Congregationall or as he should have said Parishionall Government SIR A word to you the Author of the Plea You have so entangled and wrapped your selfe in the Congregationall and Church-principles as if you meant to engage me at once against your Presbytery and the dissenting Brethren But that Spirit which makes me oppose you makes me discerne your designe and so I hope I shall single you from them though you have cloathed your selfe in their Apologeticall Narration yet I must deale with you as your self and your Brethren not as theirs and it is but a little I have to say to you But why no Name Is your Divine Right so questionable that you will not own it or are you one of them that sit too neare it to commend it with open face and think you may better and more modestly do it in disguise and without a name Had I not some reason to suspect it came from some of that sort I had passed it by with as little noise as it came abroad And I have but little to say to you now I cannot stand long wrangling in things that grow clearer and clearer every day for the day breaks and the shadowes flie away SHADOWES FLYING AWAY Or A Reply to Master Gataker's Answer to some passages in Master Saltmarsh his Booke of FREE-GRACE Master Gataker 1 THat he was traduced by one Master John Saltmarsh a man unknown to him save by one or two Pamphlets as witnessing to the Antinomian party 2 That he must unbowell and lay open some of the unsound stuffe 3 That some think they have found out a shorter cut to Heaven 4 That my inferences upon his words are not true nor as he intended As if a Protestant with a Papist disputing about the Masse should say the Controversie is not concerning the nature of Sacraments c. Answ To the first that you were traduced by me Let not you and I be judge of that both our Books are abroad and I have quoted your words to the very leafe where they are Your meaning I could not come at the deep things of the heart are out of the power of anothers quotation For my selfe unknown to you but by two Pamphlets I take your sleighting I could call your Treatises by a worse name then Treatises for I knew one of them some yeers since that of Lâ—ts wherein you defended Cards and Dice-playing And it had been happy for others as well as my selfe in my times of vanity had you printed a Retractation I beleeve you strengthened the hands of many to sin I know you love ancient Writers well by your Margin and quotations And I pray remember how Augustine honoured Truth as much by confessing Errours as professing Truths What fruit should you and I have of these things whereof we are now ashamed For your witnessing to the Antinomian party against your will Is that your fault or mine Nor am I to judge of your reserves and secret senses but of words and writings Nor is it an Antinomian party I alleadge you to countenance but a Party falsly traduced and supposed so a Party called Antinomian by you and others and then writ against A setting up Hereticks to deceive the world and then telling the world such and such are the men You may make more by this trick then you find so To the Second that you will lay open the unsound stuffe I shall not be unwilling I hope to be told my failings but I must look to the stuffe you bring in the roome of mine and entreat others to trye the soundnesse of yours It is not my saying that mine is sound will make it better nor your saying it is unsound can make it worse Let every ones work be proved and then he shall have whereof to boast To your Third of some finding out a shorter cut to Heaven then some former Divines I know not what you meane by shorter cuts The Papists find a way they say to Heaven by works some Protestants by Jesus Christ and works and others by Jesus Christ alone and make works the praise of that Free grace in Jesus Christ And is that a shorter cut then theirs as you call it or rather a clearer revelation of Truth Methinks you expressions have too much of that which Solomon cals frowardnesse in old men Argue and prove and bring Scripture as long as you please but be not too quarrelsome But I shall excuse you in part because you tell us you are not yet recovered from sicknesse so as I take this with other of your Books as part or remainders of your disease rather then your judgement and the infirmity of your body not the strength of your spirit But why chose you not a better time to trie Truth in when you were not so much in the body To the Fourth That nothing lesse was intended by you I undertook not to discover your intents to the world You might have don well to have revealed your selfe more at first that I might not have taken you to be more a friend to Truth
then I see you are forgive me this injury as the Apostle saies if I accounted you better then you desire to be Love hopeth all things and beleeveth all things And Paul it seems was better perswaded of Agrippa then there was cause and quoted some of the Heathen Poets better then they intended them as it seems I have done with you that being the greatest thing you lay to my charge Master Gataker 1 That our Antinomian Free grace is not the same with that of the Prophets in the Old Testament and the Apostles in the New 2 That in saying the Old Testament was rather a draught of a Legall dispensation then an Evangelicall or Gospell-one was to taxe the Ministery of the Prophets for no Free-grace 3 That in saying the Ministers now by the qualifications they preach do over-heat Free-Grace as your poore soules cannot take it doth make the Prophets Iuglers and deluders of the people Answer To your first That our Antinomian Free Grace is not the same with the Prophets and Apostles Why do you tell us of Antinomians of Prophets and Apostles Free-grace It is not the Free-grace of any of these Free-grace is of God in Jesus Christ Prophets and Apostles are but dispencers of it and Ambassadours of it and Ministers of it and yet Ambassadours not in the same habit The Prophets preached Grace in a rough and hairy garment or more Legally the Apostles in a more clear and bright habit in the revelation of the mystery of Christ The Law was given by Moses but Grace and Truth by Iesus Christ I could as easily say Master Gatakers Free-grace and the Legalists Free-grace as he sayes Our Antinomian Free-grace but such words and reproaches make neither you nor I speake better truth To your Second That in saying the Old Testament straine was rather Legall then Gospell taxes the Ministery of the Prophets for no Free-grace That is according to your Inference only Because the Spirit sayes the Law was given by Moses therefore will you put upon the Spirit that Moses taught or gave out nothing but Law Because I say The Old Testament was a Legall ministration therefore do I say there was no Free-grace in it or doe I not rather say Therefore it was Free-grace legally dispenced or preached or ministred Would not such Inferences be bad dealing with the Spirit and will it be faire dealing with me I wonder you who pretend to write against me as having not dealt justly with your sense will deale so unjustly with mine and commit the same sin your self in the very time of your reproving mine You may see what this Logick hath brought you to To deceive your selfe as well as your neighbour Can you cast out my mote and behold a beame in your own eye I have printed all you quoted let the Reader judge from this and compare it with the rest of my Book The whole frame of the Old Testament was a draught of Gods anger at sin And God in this time of the Law appeared only as it were upon tearmes and conditions of reconciltation and all the Worship then and acts of Worship then as of Prayer Fasting Repentance c. went all this way according to God under that appearance And in this straine saith he runnes all the Ministery of the Prophets too in their exhortations to Duty and Worship as if God were to be appeased and entreated and reconciled and his love to be had in way of purchase by Duty and Doing and Worshipping So as under the Law the efficacy and power was put as it were wholly upon the Duty and Obedience performed as if God upon the doing of such things was to be brought into tearmes of peace mercy and forgivenesse so as their course and service then was as it were a working for life and reconciliation Do not these words and termes inserted As it were and in the way and as if and is it were cleare me from such positive and exclusive assertions of Free-Grace as you would make me speak To the Third That in saying the Preachers with their qualifications over-heate Free-grace I doe by that make the Prophets deluders of the people c. I answer That way of preaching the Prophets used pressing as you say Repentance Reformation Humiliation and with Commination and the Law c. was but according to the way and method and straine the Spirit taught them under the Old Testament but if the Prophets should have held forth Jesus Christ under the New Testament and when Christ was manifested in the flesh with such vails over him and so much Law over him as they did before they had sinned against the glory of that ministration as well as some of you who bring Christ back againe under the cool shadow of the Law and make that Sun of Righteousnesse that he warmes not so many with the love of him as he would doe if ye would let them behold with open face as in a glasse the glory of the Lord and if you would give his beams more liberty to shine upon them doth not the ministration of the Spirit exceed in glory Nor were the Prophets deluders of the people then because it was the peoples time of Pupillage and being under Bondage they were shut up under the Law till faith came they were under Tutors and Governors till the time appointed So as that was truth and right dispensation in them to preach so much of the Law of curse and judgement c. as they did and of Repentance and Reformation in that straine they did But in ye who pretend to preach Christ come in the flesh ye who pretend to be Preachers in the Kingdome of God and so greater then the greatest Prophet then he that was more then a Prophet in ye such preaching were delusion because it were not as the truth is in Christ nor according to that glory of the Gospell to that grace revealed to that manifestation of Christ in the flesh to that ministration of glory but rather to those deceitfull workers the Apostle speaks on to those that troubled them with words subverting their souls who preached Law and Gospell Circumcision and Christ Master Gattaker 1 That we gird at those that bid men repent and be humbled and be sorry for sinnes and pray c. as Legall Teachers 2 That Christ preached repentance humiliation self-deniall conversion renouncing all in purpose this is not the same Gospell with that they preach as in Free-grace pag. 125 126 152 153 163 191 193. Answer To your first for our girding at those that bid men repent and be humbled c. as Legall teachers If ye presse repentance and humiliation legally why wonder ye at such words as Legall teachers Will ye doe ill and not be told of your faults must we prophesie smooth things to you and say ye are able Ministers of the New Testament when we are perswaded that truth is detained in unrighteousnesse We blame not any that bid men
their art reason knowledge experience into books and words written to their owne and other generations 9. This Gospell of Iesus Christ places Religion upon a more glorious transcendent way to sute with an infinite God then ever any device of man or reason could invent viz. upon faith upon a beleeving or spirituall perswasion wrought by the same God by which men are carried out into depths of infinitenesse and glory no way measurable nor discernable but by this way of beleeving and there could never have been an engine contrived which could have gone from man into God but this of faith by God himself nor more for the advantage of the glory of a God taking all from the creature employing it wholly upon a God 10. There is more reason in this Gospell or New Testament in the way of Religion which it holds forth by Iesus Christ then ever could be thought on by the reason of man as for instance Each mans internall conscience hath a light or law in it which condemnes or accuseth for murther c. Now if there be accusations against whom is the offence committed but against somthing infinite and what way is there more divinely rationall to apply to the justice of such an infinite being on God offended but by one who is both man and God even Iesus Christ So as the mystery of salvation is such as even reason it self cannot contradict or gainsay though it cannot comprehend to leave the world inexcusable in their unbeliefe because it commands them to beleeve in one whom in reason they cannot deny to be a way proportionable betwixt God and themselve for salvation 11. It carries things in such a rare way of mercy of justice of love of piety and as it is a salvation from God to man so it is a salvation managed by one who is God and Man and every thing belonging to it is accordingly mixed or tempered of Word and Spirit of power divine and outward dispensation or ordinance and all this for man who is of a mixed nature of flesh and spirit Thus things are carried in a way of proportion and sutablenesse so full so sutable and compleat and serviceable as the invention of men could never devise 12. It discovers reason to it self in all its workings and wayes in its purity and corruption in its vertues and vices conscience bearing witnesse to the Laws and Commandements of it it purifies and spiritualizeth reason and brings it into such a way of communion with God as the souls that reade it and are exercised in it seem to be new-borne to receive in another nature an immortall and incorruptible seed 13. It manages all the designe of salvation contrary to nature and the world upon contrary principles dispensations and hands by a Person poore humble and crucified for the good by Ministers and Dispensers meane and contemptible Fisher-men Tradesmen c. yet inspired by graces contrary as selfe-deniall humility love to enemies by conditions contrary as weaknesse affliction poverty suffering dying carrying a treasure a comfort a riches a life a glory under all these 14. It is accompanied by continued or standing miracles though miracles of a more spirituall nature as discovery of the counsels and hearts of men as conversion from sin mortification of sin changing natures from evill to good planting in new dispositions inclinations affections into the soul Now if such charges and conversions were in materiall or sensible things as from water to bloud from water to wine how would it astonish Which in spirituals in more wonderfull though only lesse discernable and not to be so sensibly perceived preserved by its very enemies the Roman cruelty of Emperours and Antichristian Traditions 15. It refers the discovery of all Truth in it self to the Spirit of God which no word but the Word of God would do and will not take in men into glory with it self which miracles do which are done by the hand and ministry of man and the Spirit in this way must needs be a more glorious Interpreter of the Will of God then the meer ministery by man and miracles can be by how much it is of a more spirituall nature and it is more excellent to seek things in the Spirit then in any outward dispensation which as it comes more immediately from God so it comes in more immediately upon men and to take in Truth by sense and sight or miracle is rather to know Christ after the flesh 16. Yet after all the Word it self is the best way to bring in evidence and discovery in its 〈◊〉 half to the souls of those that will come under the power â—peâ—atâ—on and experiments of it under the enlightening convictions impressions of it in the reading hearing and meditating of it These things are written that ye may beleeve And they that are thus exercised are above all miracle and are perswaded enough by it self without the help of an outward work 17. To these I adde the testimonies of the most ancient in witnesse of it Dionysius Areopagita thought to live in the times of the Apostles and not daring to take his Divinity any where but from these Scriptures Irenaeus who was in the yeare 180 affirming the fulnesse of these Gospell-Scriptures and accounted them the Pillar of Truth So Tertullian who lived 1400 years since doth accordingly witnesse to their perfection Origen Athanasius Chrysostome Constantine the Great in the first Nicene-Councell with thousands others all along to our own age 18. The Iewes whose very Testament and condition answers to every Prophesie and Gospel-Scripture 19. The many of those most eminently ancient learned and godly who have shed their bloud in testimony of it 20. The power of God going along with it 21. The Confessions of the most learned in that confesse that the Originall Copies are not corrupted but continued pure One Argument from the Nationall Covenant for Liberty of Conscience yet with all subordinate and just obedience to the State ART I. THe first Branch of the Covenant is That we shall sincerely really and constantly c. endeavour c. the Reformation of Religion in the Kingdoms of England c. in Doctrine Worship Discipline and Government according to the Word of God c. ART II. The second Branch of the Covenant That we shall in like manner without respect of persons endeavour the extirpation of Popery c. Superstition Heresie Schism c. and whatsoever shall be found contrary to sound Doctrine c. Now from these I argue 1. Each one is personally and individually bound by the Covenant and in his owne proper conscience is obliged to endeavour a Reformation according to the Word of God and so far to the example of the best Reformed Churches as they are agreeable to that Word I hope no further Now who shall be the Iudge and Interpreter of this Word of God to each mans conscience in the things of God but he who is Lord of the conscience