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A07802 The dovvnefall of poperie proposed by way of a new challenge to all English Iesuits and Iesuited or Italianized papists: daring them all iointly, and euery one of them seuerally, to make answere thereunto if they can, or haue any truth on their side; knowing for a truth that otherwise all the world will crie with open mouths, fie vpon them, and their patched hotch-potch religion. Bell, Thomas, fl. 1593-1610. 1604 (1604) STC 1818; ESTC S113800 116,542 172

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reason thereof none liuing can be iustified in Gods sight Fiftly that by reason thereof whosoeuer saith he hath no sinne is a flat lier Sixtly that how vertuously soeuer we liue yet must we desire God to forgiue vs our sinnes by reason of this inherent vice Seauenthly that we must thus pray euen after all sinnes be forgiuen vs in our baptisme Againe the same Saint Austen in another place hath these wordes Iustitia modo nostra ex fide iustitia perfecta non est nisi in angelis vixin angelis si Deo comparentur tamen si qua perfecta iustitia anim arum spirituum est quos Deus creauit in angelis sanctis iustis bonis nullo lapsu auersis nulla superbia cadentibus sed manentibus semper in contemplatione verbi Dei nihil aliud dulce habentibus nisi à quo creati sunt in ipsis perfecta iustitia est in nobis autem ex fide coepit esse secundum spiritum Our iustice is now of faith there is no perfect iustice but in the angels and scarce in the angels if they be compared to God Yet if there be any perfect iustice of soules and spispirits which God hath created in the holy Angels iust good by no lapse auerted by no pride falling but euer abiding in the contemplation of the word of God and thinking nothing sweet but him onely which created them in them iustice is perfect but in vs it is not perfect it is onely begun of faith according to the spirit Thus saith Saint Austen telling vs very plainely that there is no perfect iustice in man but doubtlesse where no perfect iustice is there can be no condigne merite of eternall life S. Ambrose is consonant to S. Austen who writeth in this manner Caro contra spiritum contra carnem spiritus concupiscit nec inuenitur in vllo hominum tant a concordia vt legi mentis lex quae membris est insita non repugnet Propter quod ex omnium sanctorum persona accipitur quod Ioannes Apostolus ait si dixerimus quoniam peccatum non habemus nos ipsos seducimus verit as in nobis non est The flesh saith S. Ambrose coueteth against the spirit and the spirit against the flesh neither can there be found in any man such concord or agreement that the law which is ingrafted in the members fighteth not against the law of the mind And for that cause Saint Iohns words are taken as spoken in the person of all Saints If we say we haue no sinne we deceiue our selues and there is no truth in vs. Thus writeth S. Ambrose out of whose words I note first that concupiscence mooueth rebellion against the spirit in the holiest man vpon earth Secondly that this rebellion is sinne in euery one for S. Iohn speaketh of sinne indeed Thirdly that no man liuing is free from sinne and consequently that none liuing in this pilgrimage of mortalitie can condignely merite eternall life S. Chrysostome is consonant to S. Ambrose and S. Austen these are his words Etsi millies moriamur etsi omnes virtutes animi expleamus nibil dignum gerimus adea quae ipsi percepimus à deo Though we die a thousand times and though we accomplish all vertues of the mind yet doe we nothing worthie of those things which we receiue of God Theophilact saith in this manner Seruauit nos aeternum non ex operibus quae fecimus hoc est neque secimus opera iustitiae neque per haec conseruati sumus sed vniuersam salutem bonit as ipsius atque elementia operata est He hath saued vs eternally not of the works which we haue done that is neither haue we done the workes of iustice neither are we saued by them but his goodnesse and his clemencie hath wrought our saluation wholly Now to knit vp this reason with all consents in one I will here set downe the flat and plaine report of a famous Frier and popish bishop in that booke which he dedicated to Pope Sixtus the fift Post humillim am sanctorum pedum deosculationem These are the words Eodem etiam modo considerantes omnes alij doctores sancti naturalem solum modo bonorum operum valorem illum à valore iusta vitae aeterae aestimatione longissimè distare perpendentes prudenter dixerunt opera nostra non esse meritoria aut digna vita aeterna Ex lege tamen siue conuentione siue promissione facta nobiscum opera bona hominis cum adiutorio gratiae dei fiunt aeternae vitae digna illi aequalia quae seclusa illa dei promissione quae passim in sacris literis reperitur fuissent tanto premio prorsus indigna All other holy doctors also considering after the same manner the naturall value onely of good workes and perceiuing that it is exceeding farre distant from the value and iust estimation of eternall life said wisely That our works are not meritorious nor worthie of eternall life Yet for the couenant and promise made vnto vs the good workes of man with the helpe of Gods grace are worthy of eternall life and equall with it which for all that that promise of God which is frequent in the Scripture set aside were altogether vnworthie of so great reward Thus saith our popish bishop our holy Frier euen to the Pope himselfe after the humble kissing of his most holy feet VVho though he bestirre himselfe more than a little to establish the condigne merite of mans workes yet doth he in his owne kind of dispute and reasoning vtterly confute and confound himselfe For first he graunteth that not onely S. Chrysostome but all the rest of the holy fathers with him marke well gentle reader affirme constantly and vniformely with one voice and assent a testimonie almost incredible to proceed from the mouth of a papist so deere to the Pope That good workes neither are meritorious nor worthie of eternall life Secondly he graunteth freely that the best workes considered in their owne nature and kind are vnworthy of eternall life Thirdly he graunteth willingly and telleth the Pope roundly post deosculationem pedum but after the kissing of his feet that good workes euen as they proceed of grace and assistance of the holyghost are for all that altogether vnworthie of eternall life if Gods promise and free acceptation be set apart VVhich three points doubtlesse are all that we desire to be graunted concerning the doctrine of good workes And consequently though the papists neuer cease to impeach accuse slaunder and condemne vs in this behalfe yet doe we defend nothing herein as is euident to the indifferent reader but euen that which their owne best doctors in their printed bookes doe teach vs yea in those very bookes which are dedicate to the Pope himselfe and that with the solemne and religious deosculation of his holy feet The conceits which bishop Frier Ioseph alledgeth to make good his imagined
good my positiō euen against themselues For seeing as they grant That God beholding all in a generall condemnation for originall sinne saueth the elect of mercie and iustly decreeth to condemne the reprobate for originall sinne it followeth of necessity that either some reprobate shall be saued which the papists neither dare nor may auouch or els that concupiscence remaining after baptisme is sinne indeed which is the doctrine I defend The consequution and illation is euident For if originall sinne be truly remitted in baptisme and be not truly sinne in the baptised then can none be iustly damned that are baptised for how shal they be iustly condemned for that which is remitted it cannot be And to graunt that all baptised persons shal be saued is most absurd neither can I thinke any papist so senselesse as to affirme the same For to name one for all their Pope Boniface the eight who as their owne deere frier Caranza saith entred into the popedome as a foxe reigned in it as a wolfe and died in the end as a dog is not I trow a saint in heauen and yet must we thinke he was baptised or els a terrible vae vobis will fall vpon our papists Now because the papists vse to boast that S. Austen is on their side I will prooue at large that he defendeth this my doctrine here deliuered and that I purpose in God to doe so plainely and euidently as none can stand in doubt thereof that shal seriously ponder my discourse The first place of Saint Austen SIcut caecitas cordis quam solus remouet illuminator Deus peccatum est quo in deum non creditur poena peccati qua cor superbum digna animaduersione punitur causa peccati cum mali aliquid caeci cordis errore committitur ita concupiscentia carnis aduersus quam bonus concupiscit spiritus peccatum est quia inest illi inobedientia contra dominatum mentis poena peccati est quia reddita est meritis inobedientis causa peccatiest defectione consentientis vel contagione nascentis Like as the blindnesse of heart which onely God the illuminatour doth remooue is sinne through which man beleeueth not in God and the punishment of sinne wherwith a proud heart is iustly chastened and the cause of sinne when through the blindnesse of heart any euill is committed euen so concupiscence of the flesh against which the good spirit coueteth is sinne because there is in it disobedience against the gouernment of the mind and also a punishment of sinne because it was rendred to the merits of the disobedient and it is also the cause of sinne by defection of him that consenteth or by contagion of the child that is borne In these wordes Saint Austen expresseth three things precisely first that concupiscence in the regenerate is the punishment of sinne secondly that it is the cause of sinne thirdly that it is sinne it selfe VVhich three S. Austen doth not onely distinguish but withall he yeeldeth three seuerall reasons for the same and that he speaketh of the regenerate it is euident in this because he speaketh of that concupiscence against which the good spirit striueth Most impudent therefore are the papists when they auouch with open mouth that Saint Austen onely calleth it sinne because it is the cause of sinne And the gentle reader may here also obserue that S. Austen compareth concupiscence of the flesh with that blindnesse of heart which breedeth infidelity in man which how great a sinne it is euery one can tell The second place of Saint Austen NEque enim nulla est iniquitas cum in vno homine vel superiora inferioribus turpit●r seruiunt vel inferiora superioribus contumaciter reluctantur etiam si vincere non sinantur For it is some iniquitie when in one man either the superiour parts shamefully serue the inferiour or the inferiour partes stubbornly striue against the superiour although they be not suffered to preuaile These words of Saint Austen are so plaine as the papists cannot possible inuent any euasion at all For he saith in plaine and expresse tearmes that the rebellion which is betweene the flesh and the spirit is sinne yea that it is euen then sinne when it is resisted and cannot preuaile At which time and in which respect the papists will haue it to be merite but no sinne at all Behold a flat contradiction it is sinne saith Saint Austen it is merite and no sinne say the papists The third place of Saint Austen SI in parente baptizato potest esse peccatum non esse cur eadem ipsa in prole peccatum est ad haec respondetur dimitti concupiscentiam carnis in baptismo non vt non sit sed vt in peccatum non imputetur Sequitur non ergo aliquid remanet quod non remittatur cum fit sicut scriptum est propitius dominus omnibus iniquitatibus nostris sed donec fiat quod sequitur qui sanat omnes languores tuo qui redimet de corruptione vitam tuam manet in corpore mortis huius carnalis concupiscentia If concupiscence can both be in the baptised parent and withall be no sinne why is the selfe same made sinne in the child to this this is the answere that the concupiscence of the flesh is forgiuen in baptisme not so that it remaine not but so that it is not reputed for sinne Not any thing therefore remaineth which is not forgiuen seeing that is done which is written God is mercifull to all our iniquities but vntill that be done also which followeth which healeth all thine infirmities which redeemeth thy life from corruption carnall concupiscence abideth in the bodie of this death Saint Austen in these wordes sheweth plainely that concupiscence remaineth aswell in the baptised parent as in the vnbaptised child yet with this difference that it is sinne in the parent though not for sinne imputed but in the child it both is sinne and is also so reputed And the reader must not forget that Saint Austen saith Nothing remaineth which is not forgiuen He doth not say Nothing is sinne that remaineth or thus No sinne remaineth but thus Not any thing remaineth which is not remitted As if he had said sinne indeede remaineth still in the baptised but shall not be imputed to the faithfull Marke well gentle reader the phrase which Saint Austen here vseth It is forgiuen that still remaineth saith Saint Austen or not any thing remaineth which is not forgiuen Therefore he must needes meane that something remaineth which is sinne though pardoned and not reputed sinne For nothing hath need of forgiuenesse but that which is sinne indeed The fourth place of Saint Austen I Deo apostolus non ait facere bonum sibi non adiacere sed perficere Multum enim boni facit qui facit quod scriptum est post concupiscentias tuas non eas sed non perficit quia non
vs expresly that the two tables written with the finger of God contained all the wordes which the Lord spake to them in the mount out of the midst of the fire in the day of the assembly Fiftly God commanded that the king of the Israelies so soone as he should be established in his throne should write out the Deutronomie or law repeated in a book according to the example which the priests of the Leuiticall tribe should giue him that he might meditate therein all the dayes of his life Sixtly Iosue made a couenant with the people and gaue them a law in Sichem and wrote all the wordes in the booke of the law VVhich words were nothing else but a repetition of the couenant written by Moses which couenant Iosue was commanded to obserue so strictly that he might neither decline to the right hand nor to the left And the same law contained all those precepts ceremonies and iudgements which God commanded Moses to teach the people of Israel Locus secundus Ne addas quicquam verbis eius Dei ne forte arguat te inueniaris mendax Thou must ad nothing to Gods words lest he reprooue thee and thou be found a lier This text Saint Hierome vnderstandeth of the holy scriptures to which no man may ad any thing bee it more be it lesse The scriptures therefore are most perfect and absoute and containe euery doctrine needfull for vs to know Locus tertius Ad legem magis ad testimonium Quod si non dixerint iuxta verbum hoc non erit eis matutina lux To the law and to the testimonie If they speake not according to this word there is no matutine or true light in them Loe they that refuse to be taught of Gods prophet who is the mouth of God and seeke helpe at the dead which is the illusion of Satan are here reprooued as men void of knowledge and as blind leaders of the blind And withall they are charged to seeke remedie in the word of God where his will is declared They and wee must euer in all doubts and difficulties haue continuall recourse to the law of God which law is here tearmed the testimonie because it is the testification of Gods will toward man because there is set downe what God requireth of vs because we may find in it whatsoeuer is necessarie for vs to know For the Prophet ioyneth the testimonie with the law not as a thing distinct from it but as an explication of the same As if he had said yee must in all doubts haue recourse to the law of God because it is the testimonie of his holy will Saint Hierome yeeldeth the like sense and interpretation of this place these are his wordes Si vultis nosse quae dubia sunt magis vae legi testimonijs tradite scripturarum Quia si noluerit vestra congregatio verbum domini quoerere non habebit lucē veritatis sed versabitur in erroris tenebris If ye will know the things that are doubtfull ye must haue recourse to the law and to the testimonies of the scriptures For if your people will not seeke Gods word they cannot attaine the light of truth but shall walke in the darknesse of errour Locus quartus Mementote legis Mosis serui mei quam mandaui ei in Horeb ad omnem Israel Remember the law of Moses my seruant which I commanded to him in Horeb to all Israel Marke these wordes seriously because they proue euidently the question now in hand For this Malachias being the last of Gods Prophets and foreseeing by the spirit of God that the Israelites should bee without Prophets a long time euen till the comming of Christ doth here exhort them diligently to be mindfull of the law of Moses As if he should say the time is at hand when ye shall be destitute of Prophets and therefore yee must marke well what the law saith and doe according to the prescript rule thereof But what is the reason why hee maketh no mention of the Prophets doubtlesse because all things as you haue already heard are fully comprised in the written word of the law For although the law and the Prophets were vntill Iohn the one foretelling Christs comming by word the other by tipes and figures yet was the doctrine of the Prophets nothing else in deede but an explication of the law and consequently Malachie willing the Israelites to remember the law of Moses doth thereby sufficiently insinuat the doctrine of the Prophets as who are nothing else but the interpreters of Moses For from the law they might neither turne to the right hand nor to the left That the law containeth the whole Christian doctrine necessarie vnto saluation two famous popish doctors Lyra and Dionisius Carthusianus doe testifie whose wordes shall be alledged expresly when I come to the places of the new testament Ex nouo Testamento Locus primus Haec scripta sunt c. These are written that you may beleeue that Iesus is Christ the sonne of God and that in beleeuing yee might haue life through his name Here the reader must obserue seriously with me that this Gospell was written after all other scriptures of the old and new testament euen when the canon of the scriptures was complet perfect and fully accomplished viz. almost an hundred yeeres after Christ ascention into heauen about the fourteenth yeere of the raigne of Domitianus then emperour VVhich obseruation being well marked all the sottish cauils of the papists will easilie be auoided Now let vs see how the auntient fathers doe vnderstand this place of scripture Saint Cyrill hath these wordes Non omnia quae Dominus fecit conscripta sunt sed quae scribentes tam ad mores quam ad dogmata sufficere putarunt vt recta fide operibus ad regnum coelorum perueniamus All things which our Lord did are not written but those things onely which the writers deemed sufficient as well for manners as for doctrine that by a right faith and good life we may attaine the kingdome of heauen Saint Austen hath these wordes Cum multa fecisset dominus non omnia scripta sunt electa sunt antem quae scriberentur que saluti credentium sufficere videbantur VVhen our Lord had done many things all were not written but so much was chosen out to be written as was thought to be sufficient for the saluation of the faithfull Loe gentle reader so much is comprised in the holy scriptures as is necessarie for our saluation as well in those things which concerne our life and manners as in things concerning faith and doctrine VVhich if the papists will graunt vs they may keepe their vnwritten traditions vntill Gods people haue need thereof For I see not why they should enforce vs to admit them except they were necessarie either for faith or at the least for good maners both which notwithstanding
spirit but to trie the spirits if they be of God For this cause doth S. Paule pronounce him accursed that preacheth any doctrine not contained in the scriptures For both S. Austen and S. Basill doe expound that place of the written word And the truth thereof is alreadie prooued because the Apostles taught no needfull doctrine which they did not after commit to writing S. Cyprian would not yeeld to Stephanus then bishop of Rome in the controuersie concerning rebaptization but sharpely reprooued him for leaning to tradition and demaunded of him by what scripture he could prooue his tradition For in his daies it was not ynough to alleadge tradition for the proofe of any doctrine And much lesse was it a rule in Saint Cyprians time to follow the bishop of Romes definitiue sentence in matters of faith and doctrin Though our sottish and blind papists in these latter dayes doe admit and reuerence his sentence euen as the holy Gospell See S. Cyprians words in the first proposition VVhen the Arrians would not admit the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 because it was not found in the scriptures the fathers of the counsell did not then alleadge traditions for proofe thereof neither did they say that many things must be beleeued which are not written but they answered simply That though that word were not expressely written yet was it virtually and effectually contained in the scriptures This assertion is euident by the testimonie of Saint Athanasius whose words are these Sed tamen cognoscat quisquis est studiosioris animi has voces tametsi in scripturis non reperiantur habere tamen eas eam sententiam quam scripturae volunt Although the expresse words be not found in the scripture yet haue they that meaning and sence which the scripture approoueth and intendeth as euery one that studieth the scripture seriously may easily vnderstand Origen giueth counsell to trie all doctrines by the scriptures euen as pure gold is tried by the touchstone His words are set downe at large in my booke of Motiues and they are well worth the reading Tertullian hath these words Id esse verum quodcunque primum id esse adulterum quodcunque posterius VVe must know that that it is the truth whatsoeuer was first and that that is counterfeit whatsoeuer commeth after the first S. Austen hath many golden sentences and worthie testimonies to this end and purpose One only I will here recount where he hath these wordes Nemo mihi dicat ô quid dixit Donatus aut quid dixit Parmenianus aut Pontius aut quilibet illorum quia nec Catholicis episcopis consentiendum est sicubi forte falluntur vt contra canonicas dei scripturas aliquid sentiant Let no man say to me oh what said Donatus or what said Parmenianus or Pontius or any of them because wee must not consent euen to Catholicke bishops if it so fall out that they erre in any point and speake against the canonicall scriptures Saint Chrysostome surnamed the golden mouthed doctor agreeth vniformely vnto the other fathers in many places of his workes One onely period shall for the present suffice where he hath these golden wordes Quomodo autem non absurdum est propter pecunias alijs non credere sed ipsas numerare supputare prorebus autem amphoribus aliorum sententiam sequi simpliciter presertim cum habeamus omnium exactissimam trutinam gnomonem acregulam diuinarum inquam legum assertionem Ideo obsecro oro omnes vos vt relinquatis quidnam hinc vel illi videatur deque his àscripturishaec etiam iniquirite et veras diuitias difcentes eas sectemur vt aeterna bona assequamur How can it but be absurd that in money matters we will not credite others but will tell the money our selues and for all that in affaires of greater importance which concerne the health aud saluation of our soules we can be content simply to follow the iudgement and opinion of others especially when wee haue the most exact ballance squire and rule of all things I meane the plaine testimonie of Gods lawes I therefore pray and beseech you all that you will reiect what this man or that man thinketh and search the truth out of the scriptures that learning true riches we may follow them and so attaine eternall life Behold here gentle reader a most excellent and Christian exhortation a very godly and golden aduiso giuen vs by this holy father If wee will not saith he trust others to tell our money but for surenesse will tell it our selues much lesse should wee trust others and much lesse depend vpon their iudgements and sayings in matters touching our saluation but our selues must learne and know such things by diligent reading of the holy scriptures Neither must we beleeue what this or that man saith but what we find to be true by painefull studie of the holy scriptures Now let vs heare attentiuely what the best approoued papists teach vs concerning this important and most weightie controuersie Franciscus à victoria a learned schoole-man and Spanish popish frier yeelds his opinion in these expresse wordes Propter quas opiniones nullo modo debeà us discedere à regula synceritate scripturarum For which opinions we may in no wise depart from the rule and synceritie of the scriptures Againe in another place he hath these words Non est mihi certum licet in hoc conueniant omnes quia in scriptura non habetur I doe not thinke it sure and certaine although all writers agree thereunto because it is not to be found in the holy scriptures Melchior Canus another learned schoole-doctor and renowned popish bishop confirmeth the same doctrine in these words Fatemur non audiendos esse sacerdotes nisi docuerint iuxta legem domiui VVe graunt that we must not giue eare or hearken to the priests except they shall teach vs according to Gods law Loe the papists affirme plainely that no doctrine is sound or to be receiued but that onely which is tried to be true by Gods word Neither may we beleeue the doctrin of any popish priest vnlesse it be agreeable to Gods law Now doubtlesse if the Pope will be tried and iudged by this doctrine which his best doctors haue published to the world the spirit of God hauing enforced them thereunto we shall soone agree in all controuersies of religion And certes this their doctrine is so certaine and euident that the Iesuit Bellarmine singeth the same song with them which my selfe could not easily haue beleeued if I had not read his owne testimonie in his owne booke These are his expresse words Sine dubio singuli episcopi errare possunt aliquando errant inter se quandoque dissentiunt vt nesciamus quisnam eorum sequendus sit It is without all doubt that all bishops seuerally may erre and sometime doe erre and doe so disagree among themselues that we