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A05090 A plaine refutation of M. G. Giffardes reprochful booke, intituled a short treatise against the Donatists of England Wherein is discouered the forgery of the whole ministrie, the confusion, false worship, and antichristian disorder of these parish assemblies, called the Church of England. Here also is prefixed a summe of the causes of our seperation ... by Henrie Barrovve. Here is furder annexed a briefe refutation of M. Giff. supposed consimilituda betwixt the Donatists and vs ... by I. Gren. Here are also inserted a fewe obseruations of M. Giff. his cauills about read prayer & deuised leitourgies. Barrow, Henry, 1550?-1593.; Greenwood, John, d. 1593. 1591 (1591) STC 1523; ESTC S104500 292,873 278

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discription of that sinne Hebr. 6. 10. where there is dispyting of the spirit accompting the blood of IESVS an vnholy thinge persecuting the light they haue sometimes tasted of and such like notes which are degrees further then presumption for there is presumption of ignorance of rashnes of hope of mercy and many times do the Prophets charge the people with rebellion against God so that all presumption cannot haue the curse maranatha pronounced vpon it or the persons not to bee prayed for But sure I grant that presumption is neere to that sinne and there cannot bee that high sinne without presumption But now if all sinne but sinne of frayltie were vnpardonable your Clergie were in a wofull case that thus maynely resist the truth and persecute Gods seruants Neither is this doctrine anye way contrarye to that I delyuered namelye that the regenerat man cannot bee sayd to stande in bondage to sinne after regeneration and the seruant of God at the same time by outwarde profession for none are in bondage to sinne after their calling to the faith to our iudgment but suche as contynue obstinate in their open knowne sinne after due admonition that such stande not by outwarde profession the seruants of CHRIST but of sinne and are to bee excommunicate hee willingly granteth and herevpon merueileth how I shoulde gather that obstinat grosse sinners shoulde not bee excommunicat which hee might playnlye perceiue if hee had eyes for if al the regenerat bee in bondage to sinne and so the seruants of sinne and of Satan howe should they cast out an other for bondage out of their fellowship by the power of CHRIST If Mr. GIFF. say because the obstinate is in greater bondage then the other this proueth not that the bond can cast out the bond by the power of CHRIST Againe if all bee in bondage then none can bee holden without for being in bondage to sinne so that none shoulde bee excommunicat none without the worlde and the Church light and darknes CHRIST and Beliall should bee mingled together To all which hee hath made no answere but demandeth certeine questions and maketh such a formal conclusion as if all were in bondage vnto sinne His questions I grant al affirmatiuely yet denye his cōsequence Let him plainely proue therfore by euidence of scripture that all that do sinne are bondslaues of sinne and when hee hath so done I shall therevpon conclude him a flat Anabaptist in the cheif ground of their profession Verye gladlye therefore vvoulde hee leaue out the worde bondage and falslye accuseth and sclandereth mee in saying I holde that men can not outwardly appeare sinners and stand the seruants of CHRIST both at a time vvhich is an open vntruth Yt is hee that cannot put differēce betwene sinning and bondage vnto sinne so that in one vvorde all his questions are answered If anie bee in bondage to sinne hee standeth a seruant thereof Now for the 7. to the Romanes the Apostle setting forth the strift betwene the flesh and the Spirit speaketh somtimes in the person of the one if I may so speake and somtimes of the other somtimes of the newe man or regenerat part or of himself so far as hee is regenerat somtimes of the olde man which is not wholly slaine but full of rebellion striueth for maisterie Nowe I must demand of him whether of these two haue the preheminence dominion and rule in the regenerat the graces of the spirit or the rebellions of the flesh The same Apostle saith the spirit and that part of the man renewed therewith which wee call the inner mā In the 8. Cap. hee maketh it playne The lawe of the spirit of life in CHRIST hath freed mee from the lawe of sinne and of death What is the lawe of the Spirit but the powre rule and dominion of the Spirit of God in vs And what is the lawe of sinne but the powre of sinne and bondage wherewith wee were somtimes led headlong by Satan at his pleasure but are nowe freed that it no more doth reigne or beare rule in vs vnto condemnation Againe whosoeuer are ledd by the Spirit of God are the sonnes of God and in the 7. Cap. 4. and 6. Cap. 16. knowe you not that to vvhome you ex●ibit your selues seruants vnto obedience his seruants you are to vvhome you giue your selues obedient DAVID feeling the great assaultes of sinne in his flesh and his inhabilitie to keepe the Lawe of God earnestlye prayeth vnto the Lorde Direct my steppes in thy vvorde saith hee and let none iniquitie haue dominion over mee After the stronge man is cast out CHRIST beareth the rule ouer vs and in vs by his Spirit So the scripture euerye where pronounceth vs Saincts by calling Kinges and Priestes a people set free not that wee sinne not in thought word and deede howrely and daylye but that sinne hath not dominion ouer vs If then wee were in bondage to sinne wee are the servantes of sinne and of death which God forbid Where Mr. GIFF. therfore reasoneth thus the regeneration is imperfect therefore the freedome is imperfect therefore there is some bondage yt is blasphemie For first our freedome is perfect in CHRIST ells his death is not sufficient Then though our sanctification bee not perfect yet is there no bondage but a rebellion of sinne which if yt shoulde reigne wee were not the seruantes of CHRIST And while it seemeth for a time to reigne and wee obstinatly to cleaue vnto yt wee are iudged soe far as men can iudge the seruantes of yt and so gyuen ouer from CHRIST vnto Satan till the grace of the Spirit againe to our iudgement againe appeare to beare rule As for DAVID in the whole yeare after hee had commytted adulterye and murther hee neuer pleaded for his sinne when hee was reproued nor did no longer cleaue vnto yt Soe likewise though wee fall and sinne and bee ●edd awaye with sinne yet are wee not in bondage therevnto vntil wee obstinatly and wilfully giue our selues vnto yt from CHRIST which you finde not in the 7. to the Rom. but resisting of sinne a hatred of sinne a will to doe good a repentance and continuall recouerye of himself and flying vnto CHRIST Soe that your doctrine is false to saye the Apostle stoode in some spirituall bondage and my Argument still firme that these Ministers and people which stande in a professed bondage to a false gouernment their pray●rs are an abhomination vnto the Lorde till they repent and submit themselues vnto CHRIST and his lawes and ordinances Whiche the Lorde gyue them grace to doe euen speedely to depart out of the house of bondage and from all subiection of his Antichristian Hierarchie CHRISTS vnworthie vvitnes for the truth and freedome of the Gospell IOHN GRENVVOOD FINIS Math 2 4. Mar. 13. Psa. 74. Dan. 7. 9. 11 Cap. 2 Thes. 2. 2 Tim. 3. Reuel 6. Reuel 8. Reuel 9. Reuel 13. Reuel 17. Reuel 16. Reuel 18. Reuel 19. ●●uel 12. 14 Reuel
●eare and together with him grow liue reigne stand and fall as the brāches with the tree Now wee knowing the plant cannot easilye be deceiued in the grafts especiallie knowing them from their cradles nourished with the milke of superstition instructed in the schole of heathen vanitie brought vp in the Colledges of more then monkish idlenes and disorder exercised in vaine and curious artes whose diuinitie is by tradition and according to their progresse degrees therin commēded to the Ordinarie who making probation of them accordingly doth either initiate or trayne them in this idolatrons office or els giue them their full orders with his paper licence popish seale therat Thus are they either presented to a Benifice instituted inducted where they ringe their bells pay the first fruictes taxes proxes and are sworne to their canonicall obedience to his Scenes Courtes Synods c Or els as they terme them they are become Preachers either waged Chaplens mercenarie Curats or hireling teachers gaping for promotion Which being obteined they change remoue e●terchange according to their best aduantage In this maner being entred by intrusion they cannot but lyue by theft spoile and rapine as their popish tithes the goods of the poore and offrings of the prophane indifferently and gouerne by tyrannie and perfidie Tyrannie in exe●uting the popish Iniunctions euen the statutes of Omry Perfidie in betraijng all into the hands of their Lords the Bishops Thus fulfil they scriptures by which who so examineth their infinite transgressions in perticular can want no store of Argument● against this Ministrie our purpose being here rather to shew some thē to set downe all or to confute anie of their odious enormities Which are so grosse that as sone as they are but manifested by the light they are reproued And it could not be if the Lord had not layd a vaile ouer their hearts that where the scriptures are read these deformities could be hid tollerated or defended But in stead of an Argument to vs you turne your speach to the simple people and giue them counsell if they doubt of your Ministerie to supend their iudgments and to inquire if ther be anie Churches of God vnder heauen and what they do iudge of the Ministerie and Church of England c. Is this the best counsell you can giue them vse you thus to appeaze vnquiet cōsciences and to resolue their doubtes With what conscience can they which remaine doubtfull of the truth and lawfulnes of your ministerie frequent your prayers and preaching in the meane time vntil they may send ouer sea and be resolued from thence You know that what is not of faith is sinne But with what conscience can you vse poore soules thus that inquire the truth at your mouth to send them ouer sea you wot not whether to be resolued of your Ministerie Churches Is your Church built vpon the words of men or vpon the worde of God Is this to proue your Church Ministerie by the word of God Or to vse the old worne Arguments of your mother Church of Rome who was wont to defend her self by vniuersalitie consent What if all the Churches learned mē in the world should say you are a Church which wee must tel you by the way they all neuer did neither caanie which knoweth the word of God and your estate aright but if they should could they or all the world iustifie that God condempneth Should not a people inquire at their God from the liuing to the dead Remember yee not that it is written To the law● the testimonies if they speake not it is because there is no light in them But yee are gone out of the way yee haue caused manie to fall by the Lawe yee haue broken the Couenant of Le●ie saith the Lord of hostes therfore haue I made you also to be despised and vile before all the people because you kept not my Wayes but haue bene partiall in the Lawe Yea the iudgments of God are alredie fallen vpon you you all as he speaketh by his Prophe● being couered with a spirit of slumber euen strickē with the blindnes of Elimas groping the way in the noone light because you haue peruerted the straight waies of the Lord and being thus miserable and blinde out of the way not only perceiue it not but loue darknes more then light refusing the light when yt is brought you yea despising yt because of the fewenes and basenes of them that bring yt you And in this Pharisaicall pride procede after your accustomed maner of blaspheming terming vs fewe vncharitable Anabaptists Donatists c. Thus fulfill you the measure of your forefathers thus dealt they with all Gods faithfull seruants that were sent vnto them yea euen with CHRIST himself refusing him for his simplicitie reputing him emong thieues deceiuers c We looke for no better vsage at your hands the seruant is neither greater nor better then his Maister if they haue done thus to the greene tree what shall not you doo to the drie Yet so far are we from all danger or harme by theis curses that God turneth them forthwith vnto vs as a blessing and to a comfortable assurance both of the fellowship of the faith and of the suffrings of CHRIST Blessed are you when men reuile you and say all maner of euil against you for my names sake c. Againe through the mercies of our God all the ini●ries you can offer vnto vs cannot ouercome our charitie or breake our patience In the one we possesse our soules in the other we will not cease to praie for you euen as for our selues and be redie to doo you anie good we can Now to those poore soules whome you like miserable phisitians thus cure we giue this aduise yet not we but the Load That they beware of Wolues in sheepes clothing That thei ●ollow not blind guides too far That thei marke diligentlie and auoide such as transgresse and abide not in the doctrine of CHRIST not walke after the rule of the Gospel That thei turne away from such as make a shew of godlines but denie the power and practize therof deceiuing with faire wordes the hearts of the simple talking of CHRIST but denijng him in deedes Further we send them not to mans worde nor ouer sea but to Gods worde which is neere them euen in their mouthes and in their hearts Let them therby trie the spirits before thei belieue them Let them therby measure their Temple their Altar and their Worshippers and especiallie their owne hearts that thei may be wise to that which is good and simple concerning euil If the latter part of your answere had bene put in the beginning to haue 〈◊〉 downe what maketh a true Minister of Christ you approued your Ministrie accordinglie we had suffered lesse iniurie and you lesse blame Notwithstāding because it is neuer to late to repēt if this your offer be according to your heart we most