best to inform us if he can In p. 75 D L. saies But before we conclude this head take one verdict more from W P's Spirit of Truth p. 38 The Scripture saies he is much like the shadow of the true Rule Now all men know That the shadow is a vain empty uncertain thing c. Answ That 's D L's great mistake For Paul who said Heb. 10. 1 The law having a shadow of good things to come surely did not count the law a vain empty and uncertain thing And in chap. 8. 5 speaking of the Priests who offered gifts according to the law saies That they served unto the example and shadow of heavenly things â—hâ—n surely those things which by Gods own appointment served to the example and shadow of heavenly things were not vain empty or uncertain consequently it may be easily seen that this observation of D L's is both vain and empty I am now come to his 8th Chapter entituled Of Magistracy and Government to which I shall give a little touch and begin where he begins with a passage he quotes out of Samuel Jenings's State of the case p. 73. viz Magistracy and Government we alwaies owned to be the Ordinance of God To which he objects in p. 78. thus Now observe here S Jenings deals deceitfully and dishonestly in pretending to be what they really are not Answ A high charge indeed and that too to be founded upon such an honest and innocent expression For what though as D L quotes him W. S. saith We own Government and Magistracy that stands in the power of God and executes true Judgment within the gates casting down sin and evil doers and setting up Righteousness and those that walk therein Yet it doth no waies follow that therefore we own no Government to be such so as to be subject to them in all things by yielding either active or passive obedience to their commands out the Government of those who witness Christ to rule and reign in them as D. L. asserts For both William Smith's and the rest of our friends practice in general from the beginning hath proved the contrary they having therein followed Scripture precepts and the examples of the Saints of old in owning Government and Magistracy to be appointed of God and that to them subjection was due as aforesaid Yet surely none vvill think that they so ovvned them as to ovvn that in them vvhich vvas corrupt No they vvere so far from that as they did not spare to tell them of it Isaiah saies Thy Princes are rebellious and companions of thieves c. see ch 1 23 and Ezekiel saies ch 21 27. Her Princes in the midst Thereof are like wolves ravening the prey to shed blood c. But to sum up the matter if D. L. ovvn such a Government as W S speaks of it is so far vvell hovvever vvhether he do or no it is such an one as the God of Israel the Rock of Israel instituted 2. Sam. 23 3. vvhen he spake by his Servant David on this wise He that ruleth over men must be just ruling in the fear of God And if D. L. do own such a Government then I would ask whether he cannot say also with S I That he owns Magistracy and Government to be an ordinance of God and yet justify the aforementioned Prophets in so smartly reproving the Princes of their People and next whether in so doing he would or ought to be accounted one that pretends to be what he really is not Let him well consider this As to what D L. produceth against G F out of a book entituled Papers given forth to the heads wherein amongst other expressions D L. makes G F. to say They are out of the Life and Power that make such work for an Earthly King and Earthly Powers I Answer Though I know not that ever I saw the book he refers to yet it really seems to me to be written upon the occasion of so much contending fighting killing and destroying one another in striving who should â—e uppermost in and about the time of the civil Wars But that this contradicts W P or that W P. contradicts this by his peaceably obtaining a grant from the King of the Government here as D L. seems to insinuate in these words viz Come mark that W. Penn with they industry in getting Grant after Grant for Kingly and Earthly power Is quite wide or the mark they being no waies parallel For W. P. made no such work to obtain his Grant As G F. condamnes in the above cited passage Then pray observe how false he is in thus telling W. P. of his getting Grant after Grant for Kingly power where as if he had Kingly power surely he would be a King at least his power would not be subordinate to the Kings which it is well known W. P's is It is from the like ignorance or worse that he makes such an use as he does or W. P's words quoted by him out of Address to Protestants p. 334. thus If we will give ancient story credit we shall find the wordly weapons were never employed by the Christian Church till she became Worldly and so ceased to be truly Christian c. Upon which D. L. saith I Confess had not ancient story informed me that all Christian Societies have apostatized when they grew numerous I should have admired at this Passage that the same W. P. should in so few years after he Wrote it not only fall into that Apostacy himself but also draw many more with him Answer But pray What is the Apostacy vvhioh D. L. accounts that W. P. and those many more drawn in by him are fallen into Why the most I can make of it is That People are so sar degenerated from Christs commands given to his followers viz to let the Tares grow up with the Wheat c. that they who now pretend to be his do not make use of worldly weapons so much to pluck up the tares as the good wheat as the divers Persecutions of late years can testifie And that this was it that W. P. meant by their making use of worldly weapons is clear from the very subject matter he was upon and treating about in that place Now if W. P. hath never done so as I beleive he never did then to be sure in that respect he is clear from being an Apostate And since D. L. is so well informed that all Christian Societies have Apostatized as they grew numerous surely the Church of England having grown very numerous they must needs according to D. L. be apostatized also and yet in his Almanack for the year 169 he prays that she may be a blessing upon Philadelphia As if an Apostate Church could be a blessing upon any place Then whereas he observes that Antient story hath informed him that all Christian Societies have apostatized when they grew numerous I shall now observe likewise and put him in mind too how the scene is altered and
many of them as might move the Lord to a farther compassion on them is surely more than this D L knows As for D L's ridiculing G VV. about his prophesie concetning G K. viz And thus saith the Lord because thou hast poured out contempt scorn and reproach upon my servants and people I will assuredly pour out and bring great contempt and scorn upon thee I answer What farther scorn and contempt may yet come upon him than what is already come and manifest to the world even since those words were written by G VV. let time shew and daies to come make yet more manifest For scorn and contempt is certainly come upon him even beyond the conceit which D. L. speaks of And although he may slight what G. W. said of G. K because as he saith it 's The fate of all men less or more yet that 's no more than those might have said whom the Apostle compared to Jannes and Jambres and of whom he said Their solloy should be manifest to all men 2 Tim. 3 9. In his 6. Chapter he flings out his scoffs and taunts about Infallible discerning and in particular reflects upon our Friends about Delaware thar they want this spirit of discerning and to prove it instances the case of Robert Ewer iâ— Now to this I say Though G F. as quoted by him speaks of a Minister of Christ's having an infallible discerning of a mans state and condition Yet he doth not say it is without any respect had to the fruit he brings forth And Christ saith Matt. 7 16 By their fruits ye shall know them So that I do believe to know any mans condition without this token must be an extraordinary and particular gift of God But by the fruits brought forth I do believe according to the words of Christ people may be known and that infallibly too for what is short of that is not properly knowledge but barely conjecture And as for Robert Ewer There was not so near an unity bewixt him and our Friends a considerable time before that business of that Woman at Philadelphia was talked of as D L. may possibly imagine But it is not the Churches place to disown any Member before proof be made of some evil done by him or her and to prove what I say I hope I have an Author very sufficient in D L's eye for it is no less person than his great friend G K. who in his late book of Retractations c. not yet retracted again that I heare of hath it thus in p. 3 We find no warrant from scripture to receive an accusation against any far less a positive judgment without plain evidence of matter of fact against them by credible witnesses c. Well then so far as matter of fact was thus made appear against Robert Ewer he was dealt with according to Gospel order too Bâ—t for D L's telling us of Late ill example of divers of our Preachers especially of their being unlawfully conâ—erned with women He should either have let us know who they were or else have been silent about it for for my part I know them not but do beleive it is a great slander In his p. 64. he banters W P. for saying We ascribe not in fallibility to men but to the grace of God and to men so far as they are led by it Here upon he makes this resiection viz Behould Reader and note this Rhetorick well For are not other Professors yea all men in the world so far infallible as well as Quakers Answ Yes But does not D L. know that there are multitudes of men in the world who are so far from being led by the infallible grace or spirit of God that they make a mock at and deride it and surely such are very far from being infallibly led by it But what need was there for D L. to say as well as Quakers since W P. according to D L's own citation doth not restrict infallibility only to the Quakers but to men indefinitely for saith he and to men so far as they are led by it As for his telling how friends admit none to travel upon Truth 's acount without certificates I think it is very commendable but passing by his mocking viz his saying it is to help our spirit of discerning I take notice of what he saith of G W. quoting him out of Quakers plaâ—nness thus We have a Record in Peoples conscience as if there fore there was no need of a Certificate which he Ishmael like calls a Pocket Record Answ Though he so tauntingly yet groundleslyt represents us to be a sort of people who think greaâ— things oâ— our selves as to our spiritual attainm ants yet I do beleive our Friends do not think they have attained to a greater degree of discerning spirits than the primitive Christians had and the Apostle Paul intimates their approving by their letters such as went to Ierusalem about the Churches service see 1 Cor. 16. 3. And the same Apostle speaking to the Corinthians as though he and Timothy needed nor epistles of commendation to that Church as some others 2 Cor. 3 1 there by intimated that though such very eminent labourers needed not such commendations yet others did And let D. L. observe that though G K. in his late book of Retractations p 3 c saith To know men by their fruits is a gift of the spirit and proceedeth from a true spirit of discerning that is given universally in some measure to all the faithfull Yet it seems he himself must have that which D L. calls A pocket Recerd with him to England and that signed not only by his own faction but also by perhaps D L. knows who besides In p. 66 D L. tells us My old friends oft bless them selves thus viz We are redeemed from a vain life and conversation more than any society in Christendom We are the only Professours of truth c. And saies D L. so saies the Pharisees We are not as other men c. Answ What then though the proud Pharisees were boasters and cryed They were not as other men c. Yet I hope he will not say The saints of old were Pharisees who said We know that we are of God and the whole world lieth in wickedness 1 John 5. 19 Yet there were some amongst them who appeared to be very scandalous in their lives and conversations Neither do we bless our selves as D L. falsly alledges because we are in measure redeemed from a vain life and conversation but it is our very principle which D L. cannot be ignorant of to abase self for ever and only to bless and priase the Lord who through his Son Jesus Christ enables the faithful to perform what is acceptable in his sight The next thing I shall touch at is to make some small reflection upon what he urgeth against us in his 7th Chapter under the head Of the Scriptures though the substance hath been often answered by our friends and
thus where dost thou read in the Scrpitures that men must do no work on the first day of the week Now to this I shall say That G W propos'd this Querie to one who accounted the first Day the Sabbath day and that it was a sin in it self to work thereon which we say it is not there being no Command of God to be produced requiring it so to be kept But as it is no sin to work on that day so it is no sin to abstain from work on that day for if it had surely the Primitive Christians would many times have sinned in meeting to gether on that Day It is no sin in it self for the free People of West Jersie to Chuse their Magistrates and Officers on another Day and in another manner than by their Laws and Constitutions is appointed Yet inasmuch as it is no sin to Chuse them on that Day and in that manner and it being according to their Law and the Peoples Rights and Priviledges it ought to be kept Let D. L. take notice of that and so it is in the Case of abstaining from Labour on the First Day of the week In pag. 120 he produceth a Prophecy of W P against J H which he would have to be false but not withstanding his pretending he allwayes believed plainness and honest simple hearted dealing to be best Yet rather than he will loose the Advantage of making W P look like a false Prophet he hath Crastily as well as knavishly left out those words which would have show'd that the Prophecy vvas but Conditional although as laid dovvn by D. L. it 's absolute For proof whereof I shall transcribe it first as cited by D. L. and then as publisht by W. P. D. L. bath it thus So sure as God Liveth the Lord will make thee an example of his sury and thy head shall not go down to the Grave in peace and by this shalt thou know says he that not a Lyning nor Delusive but a true and Infallible spirit hath spoke by me See Reason against Railing pag. 181. Now vvhether W. P. did not there bely the spirit of God For I do understand that P. H. died at Peace in his bed and with great satisfaction Thus far D. L. Now hear the passage as it comes from W. P. As sure as God liveth Grear will be the Wrath that shall follow Thee Yea God will visit for these unrighteous dealings and I testifie to thee from God's living spirit if thou desist not and come to deep Repentance the Lord will make thee an example of his fury c. Now observe these words if thou desist not and come to deep Repentance D. L. hath far unlike to a man that loves honest simple hearted dealing best very dishonestly left out because it render'd the Prophecy but Conditional which Conditions if perform'd render also the Prophecy nevertheless true tho' the Iudgment did not come upon him Now desist I do believe he did and whereas D L says he understands he dy'd at Peace in his bed and with great satisfaction I may possibly as truly say he repented of his so Grievously abusing our Friends before he Dy'd for I have been told so by full as credible an Author I suppose as D. L 's was but to say he dy'd with great satisfaction if D. L. mean without Repentance I am satisfied his state could be never the better for that For altho' he might reckon us no Christians as Indeed he did and so without the Pale of the Church yet he ought to have walked honestly towards them that are without 1. Thess 4. 12. which T. H. did not do by the Quakers but by his misrepresenting them to the world in his Dialogues he did certainly do very dishonestly by them in giving those for the Quakers Answers and saying they were no other but what the Quakers give both in words and practice see Dialogue pag. 163 which he could never prove to be such But to my knowledge when call'd upon for his proofs us'd pitiful shirts to evade them and at last wholely absented himself from the Meeting appointed for tryal thereof And that the Reader may see I do not misrepresent T. H. now he is Dead I shall recite a few of his questions and also what he gives for the Quakers Answers and says it 's no other than what they give forth c. see his pag 72. Question Are you then as perfectly happy as ever you expect to be Answ We Witness Perfection Q. What proof is that to another man A. We say we witness it is not that proof Sufficient Q. But what if I believe otherwise A. We shall not spare to Stigmatize and Comdemn that person that questions the truth of our sayings Q Will this Convince me or any other of your Perfection A Tho' it do not yet thereby we shall render you so odious to our Friends that they will believe nothing that is spooken by You against us Q. Then may I not conclude that the Reason whey you so freely rail against and reproach your Opposers is only to secure your Credit with your own Procesytes A. I cannot deny but that there may be something of that in it Q. Will you be so liberal of your Revilings whether your Adversaries give Occasion or no A It concerns us to render them as ridiculous as we can c Q. But doth not this Signefie a very dishonest and malicious mind in you A. We care not what you think provided our Friends think not so This with a great deal more that might be mention'd was contained in the Book which as he was never able to prove to be as he wroet so let every Impartial man Iudge whether these were like to be the Quakers Answers or no and if notwithstanding all these Grievous abuses of us by Th. H he could lay down his head in peace with the Lord which doubtless was the Peace intended by W. P. without repentance I think people need not much mind that Command of our Savour As you would that men should do to you do you also to them likewise Luk. 6. 31. Which I would have D L to mind As for D L's Appendix I see little need to speak to it the most of it being very much like his other rambling stuff up and down throughout his whole Book yet not willing wholely to pass it by I shall make some few Observations as followeth In his pag 129 under the head Of infallibility He quotes a passage out of G W's Voyce of Wisdom pag 33. That they that want Infallibility are not true Ministers Now several of the Books he quotes I want and this among the rest Therefore whether this be fairly quoted or not I know not Yet I believe the thing to be true viz That where any Minister is not Infallibly assured that what he ministers to the People is from the movings and guidings of the holy Spirit of God so far he is not a true
mean another thing But what a doltish man is this Is it not common for men yea have not the best of men done it to word a matter other wise and yet intend the very same as they did at first wording Let him see how Luke words the matter in giving account of some of Christ's last words to his diciples where he saith thus And behold I send the promise of my Father upon you but tarry ye in the city of Hierusalem until ye be endued with power sromon high Luke 24 49. Now compare this with the account he gives of the same thing Acts. 14 and see if he do not otherwise word the matter and yet intend the same thing for there he hath it thus And being assembled together with them commanded them that they should not depart from Hierusalem but wait for the promise of the Father which saith he ye have beard of me And many such like instances may be sound in scripture but least D. L. should dislike scripture instances under pretence of their being corrupted I will give him one out of his Friends G. K's late book of Explanations and Retractations not again retracted as I hear of yet let him Look in p. 5. where G. K. saith Though I cite scripture and make use of them in arguing this point yet I can truly say I have not my knowledge from them Note this he cites out of his book entituled Immediate Revelation p. 54. which he here explains by other wise wording the mâ—tter thus Here note I say from them as being the efficient cause c. Now though he here otherwise word the matter yet his intention are still the same For he saith himselfe in the same place What I then hold meaning what he held in 1668 he held in 1697 though he have other wise worded the matter But what Author shall I fetch to convince D. L. better than him self For in this very book of his p. 33 he finding fault with and ridiculing G W about his charging a contradiction upon John Newman saies D L Pray judge if this meaning Newman's assertions â—e any more then to say four pence in one place and a gro at in another Importing that to be one and the same thing and so indeed it is Therefore wether to say four pence in one place be not one way and agroat in another place be not another way of wording the matter and yet intend the same thing We see D. L. has resolved in the affirmative I come next to his p. 25. where he cites G. W. again Divinity of Christ p. 82. in these words while we were sinners Christ died for us it was Christ that dyed To which he sopposes John Whitehead s Refuge Fixed p. 38. thus Nothing that was mortal was called Christ Answ What John Wâ—â—e head wrote he declares twâ—â— as being eclxasive of the soul and spirit of Christ and we know exclusive from the sould and spirit his flesh was called the body of Jesus as it is said Joseph of Arimathea begged the body of Jesus and this was mortal and dyed But as whilst living his Godhead soul and spirit was united to that body so when that body dyed it was called the death of Christ though his Godhead soul and spirit dyed not so that if exclusive there from his body was properly and intirely the Christ then Christ was not from the beginning But we believe according to scripture that Christ was from the beginning and that the Rock that followed Israel in the Wilderniss was Christ 1 Cor 10 4. and yet also according to scripture he took on him the body that was mortal and that which he suffered in that body was also called the sufferings of Christ For as much saith the Apostle then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh c. 1 Pet 4 1. And though the scripture calls it's suffering the death of Christ yet it also implyes that Christ was that day in Paradise Luke 23 43 though that which was mortal was in the grave till three dayes after As to his comparing our Friends writings to those Priests whom Samuel Fisher in his Rusticus p 773. for their inconsistent arguments against our Friends twits with his rounds of No so so no c. I shall only say thus much that I hope I have shewed and yet shall shew here in that there is no comparison to be made between them For the occasion of Samuel Fisher's so treating the priests was the so different terms they at times gave to the light which D L. may disprove if he can whereupon saies S F. One while he calls it meaphorical not proper another while proper not metaphorical one while natural as opposite to civil and not moral spiritual not supernatural another while and in other respects he makes it civil moral and spiritual one while common to all universal but then not saving other while sufficient and saving but then particular only and particular to a few This with much more was what S. F. grounded his No. so so No. c. upon which D L. should not have concealed from his Reader But it is no wonder a man should do so who strives for victory more than truth Again in p 30. 31. he cites G. F's Great Mistery p 289. thus God was in Christ and they are one the Creator the father in the son and the Son in the father and Christ in you and God in Christ the Creator And Quakers Plainness p. 24. by G W The son is co worker with the Father To these he opposes G. W's Light and Life p 47 as follows viz What nonsense is this to tell of God being co Creator with the Father Where upon D. L. makes this Note Does not G. W. here accuse both G. F. and himself also with Non sense for what 's the difference between Co worker and Co Creator Answ As blind as D L. renders me in his p 45. about the Resurrection yet I shal shew him that I can see a great deae of difference may be betwixt a Co worker and a Co Creator For the saints were Co workers together with Christ but surely they cannot be said to be Co Creators with him And though Christ being man as well as God may be said to be Co-worker with the Father yet to tell of God being Co Creator with the Father does as G. W. saies imply two Gods And what G. F. said of Gods being in Christ and they are one the Creator the Father in the son and the Son in the Father c. is true and scriptural and it brings him no waies under accusation of G. W. as this quarrel picker would render him In his p 37. he quotes R. B.'s Apology p 95. in these words viz Wherefore as we believe he Christ was a true and real man so we also believe that he continues so to be glorified in the heavens in soul and body Upon which D. L. notes W. P. saith Christ as