discouered the abomination and filthinesse of the Whore of Babylon and begin to hate her and make her desolate and wee doubt not but in time other Princes and States will ioyne with them and perfectly accomplish this Prophesie by stripping her naked and eating her flesh and burning her with fire Now to sharpen my weapons a little vpon M. Fisher's Whetstone Confingant tale quid Haeretici confingant tale quid Papistae Let the Papists feine some such like thing let them deuise if they can any Protestant Church or any other society or person in the world in which the marks of Antichrist aboue-described are so conspicuously to bee seen as in the Romish Synagogue and the Head thereof and then I will confesse I haue spilt all my paines in deciphering these characters but till they haue brought some man State Society or Church in the world in whom the former marks are more visible than they are at this day in the Romish Church and her Head I shall bee euer of the opinion of that learned Iudge and States-man who said pleasantly that If the Pope of Rome were not Antichrist he had very ill luck for if there should be a proclamation or warrant to send for a man described by such marks as Antichrist is in the Apocalypse without all question the Pursuiuant would attache and bring the Pope of Rome The Protestant Relation Paragraph the eightth touching the demonstration of the Visibility of the Church by the eternity and immutability of faith Doctor Featly That Church whose faith is eternall perpetuall and vnchanged is so visible as the catholick Church ought to be and the Popish Church by M. Fisher is pretended to be But the faith of the Protestant Church is eternall perpetuall and vnchanged Ergo the Protestant Church is so visible as the Catholick Church ought to be and the Popish Church is pretended by M. Fisher to be M. Fisher. I distinguish the Maior That Church whose faith is perpetuall and vnchanged so as the names can be shewed is so visible as the Catholique Church ought to be and as M. Fisher pretends the Roman Church to be I grant it That Church whose faith is perpetuall and vnchanged yet so as the names cannot bee shewed in all Ages is so visible as the Catholique Church ought to be and as M. Fisher pretends the Romane Church ought to bee I deny it To the Minor I apply the like distinction and consequently to the conclusion in the same manner Doctor Featly What Answer you to the conclusion also This is a straine of new Logicke Master FISHER'S Answer This Argument as it is set downe is so far from being a demonstration whose propertie is To conuince the vnderstanding as it is not a probable or morall perswasion for I am verily perswaded that no wise man not alreadie possessed with Protestant opinions will or can bee so much as morally conuinced or in any sort probably perswaded by it that Protestants bee the true visible Church more then a man in case of doubt can be by the like Argument which a man may make to proue himselfe and his brethren to bee as well spoken of as any in all the parish thus Those who are in heart true honest men are as well spoken of as any in all the parish But I and my brethren are in heart true honest men Ergo. As this proofe is not able to make any man not partially affected to beleeue these men to be well spoken of or to bee honest-men so neither can Doctor Featlies proofe make any wise man beleeue Protestants to bee the true visible Church or to haue the true faith Secondly if the terme That Church bee vnderstood onely of a particular Church as for example the Church of England it is so farre from a Logicall demonstration as it hath not in it any Logicall Forme according to any of the vsual moods Barbara Caelarent c. But if it bee vnderstood vniuersally of euerie Church that is or may bee then both Maior and Minor are false and so it cannot bee a demonstration whose propertie is To consist of most certainly true propositions The Maior in this latter sense is false for that there may be a Church or companie who may haue inward faith eternall and vnchanged as for example a Church of Angels who for want of visible profession are not so visible as the Catholique Church ought to be The Minor is false also for the Protestant Church hath not the true primitiue faith neither is that faith they haue vnchanged but so often changed and so much subiect to change as one may say as a great person in Germany once said of some Protestants What they hould this yeere I doe in some sort know but what they will hould next yeere I doe not knowe Which is true in regard they haue no certaine and infallible rule sufficient to preserue them from change But if Doctor Featly shall say that hee neither meant the tearme That Church in either of the aforesaid senses but meant to signifie by it That one holy Catholique and Apostolique Church which the holy Scriptures doe shew both to haue perpetuall vnchanged faith and also to bee perpetually visible then indeed the Maior is true but the Minor is most false and so the argument is farre from being a demonstration especially when it endeuoureth to proue magis notum per ignotius viz. the visibilitie which is easily knowne by the truth of Doctrine which is more hard to be knowne especially by onely Scripture Of the sense whereof according to Protestants who say The whole Church may erre no particular man can bee infallibly sure for if the whole Church or companie to whom Christ promised the Spirit of truth to teach them all truth may erre then much more may euerie particular man erre and consequently no particular man can bee infallibly sure of the sense of Scripture Thirdly this Argument beggeth or supposeth that which is in question for in asking which is the true visible Church or congregation of the true faithfull wee aske at least vertually which is the true faith in regard the true Church cannot be without this true faith yea therefore doe wee ask which is the true Church that of it being first knowne by other marks wee may learne what is the true faith in all points in which wee yet knowe not what is to bee held for true diuine faith Fourthly although faith be prerequired to be in some or other members of the true Church yet inward faith alone without some outward profession by which it is made visible or sensible doth not sufficiently make a man to bee a member of the visible Church Let D. Featly looke back vpon his Argument and tell vs what Academicall learning taught him to call it A demonstration à priori Doctor FEATLY's Reply I know diuers learned men haue beene of the opinion that Aristotles Demonstrator doth dwell vnder the same roofe with Tullies Orator and Xenophons
renounce all the particular errors of the present Romish church at this day for such Protestants could not bee much before Luther The particular diseases must in nature bee presupposed before a particular remedy can bee applyed vnto them Reformation necessarily presupposeth a disorder and deformation Neither doe wee restraine the name Protestants to such only as in particular set themselues directly and professedly against some speciall error of Popery as of Transubstantiation Purgatory Indulgences c. for such professed opposing could not bee imagined before such errors were in beeing But as the Fathers before the Councell of Nice did not in words define 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or that the Son was of the same substance with the Father and not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 onely that is of a like substance nor professedly wrote against the Heresie of Arius by name yet are they rightly esteemed 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 indeed or maintainers of the right beliefe touching the consubstantiality of the Sonne to the Father because out of their Sentences and Writings this truth may be deduced howsoeuer it be not formally expressed in the tearme of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 So all those are to bee esteemed Protestants who holding nothing against the protestant faith deliuer some doctrines and positions from which some error of Popery or other may bee cleerly refuted whether such error were then maintained by any in the Church of God or no. Of the tearme Visible A Church may be said to be visible two manner of waies either Visible to the whole world and that eminently and in some sort pompously as the Roman Empire kingdom of Naples or respublica Venetorum in which sense the Papists affirm that the true Church ought alwaies to bee visible but wee denie it Or visible to all the members of that Church either such as God hath already called or such as he will call in time who by searching and due inquirie may and shall finde out the true Church their mother In this question we vndertake not to prooue a Protestant Church visible in all Ages in the first acception but in the later onely wee maintaine a visible but not a conspicuous eminent and glorious face of a Church in all Ages consisting of an apparant Hierarchy as the Papists teach I shall not need to adde more distinctions for the explication of this first question I come therefore briefly to the particular assertions seruing for the confirmation and illustration of the generall and mayne conclusion touching the Visibility of the Protestant Church The first assertion The Church in the most strict and proper acception thereof is the whole company of Gods elect Thus S. Paul in the Epistle to the Hebrewes describeth her The generall assembly and Church of the first borne which are written in heauen And Saint Gregory vpon Ezechiel There is one Church of the elect both going before and following after And againe vpon the Canticles Christ according to the grace of his foreknowledge hath built a holy Church of Saints which shall eternally perseuer in grace And Saint Bernard This is the Church of the Elect. Of this Church Saint Austen speaketh most expresly He shall neuer be withdrawne from that Church which is predestinated and chosen before the foundations of the world yet poore Iohn Hus as H. C. a zealous Papist rightly obserueth was burnt by the decree of the Councell of Constance for saying no more in this point then Saint Paul and Saint Gregory said before him viz. Catholica Ecclesia est omnium praedestinatorum duntaxat The Catholique Church consists of all those that are predestinate and of them onely But the best is as our Humfrey speaketh pertinently Combustus est non confutatus Hussius Iohn Hus was indeed burned but hee was neuer confuted His doctrine is written with a poynt of a Diamond neuer to bee razed out for it is Gods truth The foundation of God standeth sure hauing this seale The Lord knoweth them that are his And so I fall into my second assertion The second assertion The Church in this acception as it consisteth of the elect onely is knowne to God onely and consequently is inuisible This the Apostle teacheth The Lord knoweth them that are his And the Spirit intimateth as much in these words I will giue him a white stone and in it a new name written which no man knoweth sauing hee that receiueth it For what man knoweth the things of a man saue the spirit of man which is in him The heart of man is deceitfull aboue all things who can knowe it I the Lord search the heart I try the reines This soueraigne priuiledge of Almighty God to sound the bottome of mans heart the faithfull acknowledge in their deuâ—utest prayers as Salomon Thou euen thou onely knowest the hearts of all the children of men And Ieremie Thou that triest the Righteous and seest the reines and the heart And the eleuen Apostles Thou Lord which knowest the harts of all men Now if God onely knowe the heart he onely knowes who beleeue in him and loue him in sincerity of heart Therefore let none saith Saint Cyprian arrogate that which the Father hath giuen to the Sonne onely to weet in the floore of the Church to take the fanne and seuer the chaffe from the wheat The elect are the first borne whose names are written in heauen Heb. 12. 23. Now what earthly man will take vpon him to reade that which is written in heauen Saint Prosper forbeares it defining that God is hee who defineth the certaine number of those who are predestinated to eternall life Whence we may rightly conclude that the Pope in canonizing Saints and entering them into the heauenly Hierusalem incurres into a praâ—unire by encroching on the prerogatiue of Almighty God who reserueth to himselfe alone the discerning of vessels of honour from vessels of dishonour that is the elect from the reprobate But our aduersaries obiect If wee restraine the Church to the elect and pronounce them inuisible we make a Platonicall Idea or an aerâ—all body or mathematicall abstract of the Church Heereunto we answer first out of Saint Prosper Certum apud Deum esse numerum electorum tam impium est negare quà am ipsi gratiae contraire It is as impious to deny that the number of the elect is certaine with God as to deny grace it selfe And will any dare to call that a fansie or an imaginary Idea which is most certaine in the knowledge of God Secondly we teach not that the Church in this notion is an Idea extra rem or singularia or a body houering in the aire or floting in the fansie we teach that it truly subsisteth partly in heauen in the triumphant and partly on earth in the militant part therof This militant part though in respect of the whol number inward
This Cope acknowledgeth in his Dialogues As for corrupting antient Authors and circumcising later I referre all that desire to be satisfied in this point to T. I. his Treatise of the corruptions c. as also to the Indices expurgatorij Quiroga and Sanctouall The flourishing Fencer Campian in his first reason termeth Protestants difficiles Aristarchâ—s 〈◊〉 arrepta virgula censoria si quae ad stomachum 〈◊〉 faciunt obliterant But doe not Papists more truly deserue to bee censured censorious Aristarchi For as Aristarchus vsed to raze out the verses of Homer which hee liked not so hee that hath but halfe an eie may see that the Romanists in their Indices expurgatorij blot out of all sorts of Authors whatsoeuer liketh them noâ— or any way makes against them But wee hope wee shall shortly haue a Vindex for their Index And therefore leauing the further prosecution of this point I will now set downe my last Assertion and generall conclusion Notwithstanding all the difficulties aboue-mentioned yet God hath not left his truth though too much opposed 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to bee without witness in all Ages as may appeare by the learned labors of diuers Protestants aboue mentioned out of whose large fields as also mine owne particular obseruations I haue gleaned a brief Catalogue which may suffice to poynt out a Protestant successiue Church from Age to Age. The beginning of the Catalogue For witnesses to the truth of the Doctrine wee now professe and maintaine in the Church of England I alledge IN the first Age from Christs birth to 100 yeeeres CHRIST IESVS The twelue Apostles Saint Iohn Baptist. Saint Mark Saint Luke Saint Paul with his schollers Titus Timothy and the Churches planted or watered by them Romanes Corinthians c. Clemens about the yeere 90. Ignatius about the yeere 100. with the Churches to whom he wrote The Tralians Magnesians Tarsians Philadelphians c. In the second Age from 100. to 200. Polycarpus 140. Iustin Martyr 150. Methodius 155. Dionysius Corinthiacus 158. Hegesippus 160. Melito Sardensis 170. Polycrates cum Synodo Asiaâ—â—ca 180 Saint Irenaeus 190. Clemens Alexandrinus 200. These Professors of the truth 〈◊〉 denying others I alledge for the two 〈◊〉 centuries further we proceeded not in 〈◊〉 Conference and therefore heere I 〈◊〉 a stop for a time and withall a challenâ—â— to M. Fisher to set downe the names 〈◊〉 his supposed Papists for these two 〈◊〉 Ages together with such poynts of 〈◊〉 Romish Religion as he will prooue 〈◊〉 they maintained which after hee haâ—â— done I will make good my witnesses anâ— disprooue his and then proceed to 〈◊〉 succeeding Ages euen vnto Luther if 〈◊〉 permit Hic rhodus hic saltus Hic modus haec nostro signabitur area currâ— A defence of Doctor FEATLY his proceedings in the Conference together with a refutation of Master FISHERS Answer vnder the name of A. C. to a Treatise intituled The Fisher caught in his owne Net AS Velleius Paterculus obserues that In the battell at Philippi in which Brutus should haue taken Anthony to task and Cassius Augustus it fell out cleane contrary so that Brutus met with Augustus and Anthony marched against Cassius So it came to passe in this present combate D. White prepared and prouided to encounter M. Fisher his former Antagonist and D. Featly was intreated as in Assistant to deale in a second place with M. Sweet if occasion were offered Yet vpon a cunning trick of the Iesuite discouered immediately before the Conference it was then on the place of the meeting resolued otherwise by some that were principally interessed in the businesse that D. Featly should beginne with M. Fisher and oppose him in the Iesuites question touching the visibility of the Protestants Church and D. White as there should bee cause should take off M. Sweet if he interposed as also answer in the contrary question propounded to the Iesuites touching the Visibility of the Romish Church in all Ages Thus D. Featly who intended to be but an Assistant contrary to his expectation was made the principall Opponent in this Disputation Wherin that hee might the better manage the truthes quarrell and satisfie his Auditory hee set before his eies certaine rules partly taken out of Scripture partly out of the antient Fathers to direct his proceedings by them The first rule is Saint Paul's Let nothing bee done through strife or vaine-glory God is not in the fire of contention nor in the whirle-winde of passion but in the still voice of them who in meeknesse of spirit seeke the truth out of loue of truth it selfe not of desire of victory Nolunt Scripturâ— ae docere nisi eos qui doceri quaerunt The Scriptures will not instruct those who seek not to bee instructed by them in this manner Democritus fitly compared truth to a iewell in the bottome of a Well if the water bee cleere we may easily discerne it but if troubled it is impossible to see the bottome of the Well much lesse discerne the most precious Iewel of truth lying in it For this cause D. Featly in the beginning of the disputation as is confessed by A. C. earnestly besought M. Fisher to deale sincerely as in the sight of God setting aside all passion and by-respects and when M. Sweet propounded that condition that all bitter speeches should be auoided D. Featly with the rest most willingly accepted of it and commended M. Sweet for proposing of it The second rule is Nazianzens 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 It is the best order in all speech and actions to begin and end with God According to which prescription D. Featly beganne with a short Prayer 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and ended partly with a doxologie adding to his instance in Christ our Lord and Sauiour blessed for euer at whose Name all knees must bow both in heauen and earth and vnder the earth partly by an holy adjuration M. Fisher I charge you as you will answer before Christ at the day of Iudgement The third rule is Epiphanius his who obserueth in a Disputation against the Photinians quòd adhibiti sunt qui vtrinque exciperent ea quae dicebantur quae postea ab vtraque parte obsignabantur there were appointed Notaries who did take that which was said on both sides and their notes afterward were signed by both parties According to which obseruation M. Ailsbury was chosen and accepted of as Notary on both sides and D. Featly did set his hand to each Syllogisme as likewise did M. Fisher to his Answers and this schedule containing the substance of the arguments and Answers in the end of the Conference was sealed with three seales the Earle of Warwicks Master Boultons and Master Bugges The fourth rule is Tâ—rtâ—llians first to 〈◊〉 the ground and set vp as it were the goales by determining the state of the question Summam quaestionis saith he certis line is determinemus aduersus Marcionem L. 17. His
the Catholique Church of Christ to Africa and therein to the Sect of Donatus so you also restraine the Church of Christ to Rome and the Popes adherents We teach with Saint Austen Non Romanos sed omnes gentes Dominus semini Abrahae media quoque iuratione promisit That God promised with an oath to Abraham not the Romans but all Nations for his seed We beleeue that wheresoeuer the Scriptures are receiued and Christs Sacraments administred God calles some by ordinary meanes and consequently there is a Christian Church though neuer hearing of Rome or Papall Iurisdiction who are ordained to saluation Wee account all that professe the name of Christ Doctrine of the Gospell to be members of the visible Catholick Church yet with this difference some are sound members and parts others vnsound and these more or lesse Wee doubt not but Christ hath his flock vnder the Turk and Tartarian and Mogol in Asia Africa Europe yea Italy and Rome it selfe euen in the denne of Antichrist And therefore we are the true Catholicks who maintaine verè Catholicam Ecclesiam a Church truly Catholicke and you are the Donatists and Masters of the separation of these times who damne all sorts of Christians saue those who are content to receiue the mark of the Romish Beast in their fore-heads What then speake you of three Protestants to be named in euery Age Although our Sauiours words are most true Where there are two or three gathered in my name there am I. And although Tertullians inferences from those words are most true Vbi tres sunt Ecclesia est licèt Laici sint Where there are three there is the Church yea though those three bee Lay-men and In 〈…〉 Ecclesia est the Church is in one or two men yea Alensis and diuers among you remembred by Tostatus affirme that from the time of Christs suffering vntil his resurrection sides in sol◠remansit beata Virgine that onely the blessed Virgin perseuered in the faith and consequently that the Church subsisted for that time onely in her Yet God be blessed for it wee need not to fly to any such defence We shall bring into the field pares aquilas nay plures aquilas more ensignes and banners then you yea incomparably more for the first and best Ages and if you exceed vs in the latter I wish you to remember that in time in liquors the lees and mother gathers towards the bottome and a spoonefull of pure wine is better then a Hogs-head of dregs Yea but we are so farre from beeing able to produce three Protestants in all Ages as we cannot name one in euery age How proue you this Forsooth M. Brierly hath prooued it to your hand A beggerly Rapsodist whose patched cloak is already all to-be-tome by one of our noble Mastiues and the ragges that remaine as I am informed will be shortly by another puld away Were M. Brierly a man of better iudgement and more integrity then our worthy Morton now Lord Bishop of Couentry and Litchfield hath prooued him to be yet beeing a knowne Papist to alleage meerely his work and words to mee is but a dry kinde of proofe and therefore you did well in this place to knock at the Buttery-dore And heere I intreat the Reader to note how the very name of the Buttery reuiues the Iesuite In all the other passages of his Book there is nothing that pretends to wit or mirth but heer he is very pleasant now his dull wit is whetted he was not able in all the Conference nor since in his Answer to send out such a flash Will you know the reason The Spright of the Butterie possesseth him and thus he diuines The Protestants cannot abide with any patience when they bee much pressed in this poynt as appeareth by diuers that haue been vrged and in particular by Doctor Featly in this Conference who hauing been called vpon to produce Names burst forth c. It is true I burst forth not into a passion as you would make the Reader beleeue but into a laughter as did the rest of the company neither did I by any gesture or speech discouer my impatience but your folly who when I alledged you reasons and testimonies were not content with them but called for emptie names c. And what was this but to call for a Colledge Buttery-book which is nothing but a Register of the names of such as are in that societie If the sprite of the Butterie had not obfuscated your braine surprized your iudgement you might haue vnderstood plainly perceiued that I cōpared not a Catalogue of noble Confessors and Martyrs of the Catholique Protestant faith to a Buttery-book but such a Catalogue as you then required and you vsually bring to proue the visiblity of your church viz. a companie of names and nothing else testes sine testimonijs witnesses deposing nothing for you And may not such emptie Catalogues be fitly compared to Butterie-books Note Reader say you what a fit Title hee giueth to a Catalogue of Names of Protestants who indeed are more like to bee found in a Butterie-booke then any good Record of Antiquitie as hauing had their beginning of late in one Martin Luther who after his apostasie more respected the Butterie then any ecclesiasticall storie I maruell not that you Yeomen of the Popes Butterie and Pantry and the Blacke-gard of Rome haue a sharpe tooth against Luther who by burning the Popes haruest of Indulgences hath made the Catalogue farre lesse of those that brued for the Friers Buttery and baked for the Popes Kitchin Certainly if Martin Luther had so fat a belly as you paint him with hee did but hold that which hee got among you for after hee for sooke Sodom which you Apostataes call apostasie hee so hated and detested the gluttony and drunkennesse of Monks and Friers and so sharpely inueighed against them that Erasmus sometimes spake as truly as wittily of him That though hee otherwise highly esteemed of him yet hee could not but confesse that hee was much too blame in two things that hee presumed to touch the Popes Crowne and the Monkes bellie Wherefore seeing Luther deserueth no better of your fraternities strike him out of your Butterie-booke and put Father Parsons in his place the grand Master of your new equiuocating Religion or religious equiuocation because good man his name was strucke out of the Buttery-booke of Bailliol-Colledge in Oxford and hee expeld for falsifying the Butterie-booke and thereby cozening and purloining the Students of that Colledge The Protestant Relation Paragraph the seauenth touching the comparison betweene a proofe à priori and à posteriori Doctor Featly That Church whose faith is eternall is so visible that the Names of some professors thereof may bee shewed in all Ages But the faith of the Protestant Church is eternall and perpetuall Ergo. Master Fisher. Faith eternall Who euer heard of faith eternall Saint Paul saith that faith
ex Scripturis arguuntur in accusationem conuertuntur ipsarum Scripturarum quasi non rectè habeant neque sint ex authoritate quia variè sunt dictae et quia nō possit ex his inueniri veritas ab his qui nesciunt traditionē nō enim per literas traditā illam sed per viuam vocē When they are conuinced by Scripture they fall on accusing the Scriptures thēselues as if they were not as they ought to be or were not of authoritie and that they are variously or ambiguously vttered and that out of them the truth cānot be found by those who are ignorant of tradition for that it viz. the truth was not deliuered by letters but by word of mouth Is not this in part your plea at this day that the scriptures are ful of ambiguities that they receyue countenance whole authority quoad nos from the Church that the written Word without vnwritten traditions is not sufficient Thirdly there is no positiue Article of our faith which you your selues or the learnedst among you doe not hold and beleeue as Catholique therefore wee are on a sure ground euen by your owne confession To instance in most of the principall Articles First wee beleeue the Canonicall Scripture to be the Word of God you beleeue them also to bee so but adde vnto them the Apocrypha Secondly wee beleeue the Originals of the two Testaments in Hebrew and Greek to bee authenticall and of vndoubted authoritie you I hope beleeue so too but you adde that the vulgar Latin Translation is authenticall also Thirdly wee beleeue the written Word of God to bee the ground of faith you beleeue so but adde thereunto the vnwritten word Fourthly we beleeue that Christ is the Head of his Church you beleeue so likewise but adde vnto him a visible Head the Pope Fiftly we beleeue that there are two places Heauen for them that shall bee saued and Hell for them that shall bee damned you beleeue so too but adde thereunto other places more Purgatorie Limbus patrum and Limbus infantum Sixtly wee beleeue that the true God is to be worshipped in Spirit and truth you beleeue so too but you adde that hee may bee analogically and relatiuely worshipped by Images Seuenthly we beleeue that we ought to call vpon God you beleeue so too but adde heereunto that you may call vpon Saints Eightthly we beleeue that Christ is our Mediator both of redemption and intercession you beleeue so too but you adde to him Angels and Saints vpon whose intercession and merits you in part relie Ninthly we beleeue that the Saints departed beare most ardent affection to the Saints liuing vpon earth and pray in generall for the Church militant you beleeue so too but adde that they haue knowledge of our particular necessities and pray to God in speciall for vs. Tenthly we beleeue that Christ hath instituted two Sacraments in his Church Baptisme and the Eucharist you beleeue so too but adde to them fiue other Matrimonie Penance Ordination Confirmation and Extreme Vnction Eleuenthly we beleeue that grace is annexed to the Sacraments in such sort that all those who worthily receiue them participate also of sanctifying grace you beleeue so too but adde that the Sacraments conferre this grace ex opere operato a worse Solecism in Diuinity than in Grammar and that God is tied vnto them so that all children dying without Baptism are necessarily damned Twelfthly wee beleeue that the intention of the Minister is requisite to the right administration of the Sacrament you beleeue so too but you adde that the effect of the Sacrament dependeth vpon the intention of the Minister Thirteenthly we beleeue that in the Eucharist the worthy Communicant really partaketh of Christ's Body you beleeue so too but adde that Christ is receiued orally and carnally vnder certain Accidents the elements beeing transubstantiated Foureteenthly we beleeue that we are iustified and saued by the merits Passion of Christ you beleeue so too but adde thereunto your owne merits and satisfaction Fifteenthly we beleeue that we ought to pray for all the members of Christs militant Church vpon earth you beleeue so too but adde therunto that wee may and ought to pray for the Dead also Sixteenthly we beleeue and receiue the three Creeds the Apostles the Nicene and that of Athanasius and the foure generall Councels you beleeue them also but adde a fourth Creed viz. the twelue new Articles coined by the Pope and annexed to the Councell of Trent Thus you see how the Articles of our beleefe are drawne out of your owne confessions That which wee hold for matter of faith necessary to saluation you and in a manner all the Christians in the world hold as we And therefore our doctrine is Catholique according to Vincentius Rule quòd ab omnibus quòd vbique quòd semper whereas your additions to the Catholique faith were neuer maintained neither by all Christians in any Age nor by any Christians in all Ages Neither you nor all the Papists in the world are able to proue any one point of your Trent-faith wherein you differ from vs to be Catholique And now let vs hear your Paralogisms against my demonstration Obiect 1. First you say it conuinceth not the vnderstanding and therefore is no demonstration Answer This obiection of yours sheweth that you need to be informed in your vnderstanding how a demonstration conuinceth the vnderstanding It is not the property of a demonstration actually to conuince the vnderstanding but potentially or vertually The meaning of this Proposition A demonstration conuinceth the vnderstanding is this that A demonstration hath in it power and strength to inforce the vnderstanding of any intelligent man to assent to the conclusion the premises beeing before apprehended by him and euery demonstration is a Syllogisme and euery Syllogisme proceedeth ex quibusdam positis To illustrate this by that vsuall example of the eclipse of the Moon which the Astronomers demonstrate by the cause to weet the interposition of the earth between the Sun and the Moon Before this demonstration will conuince the vnderstanding of any man he must first haue the tearms expounded vnto him afterwards he must be taught that the Moon hath not light of her self but receiueth it from the Sunne thirdly that the Sunne casteth his light by right lines Fourthly it must be shewed how in such points called by Astronomers Caput cauda Draconis the Sunne and Moone are diametrally opposed whereby it comes to passe that by the interposition of the earth the Moon is debarred from receiuing light by the Sunne-beames And thus in the end the vnderstanding is conuinced by this demonstration That which is hindred from receiuing light from the Sunne by the interposition of the earth is eclipsed But the Moon in the points aboue-named viz. the head and taile of the Dragon is alwaies hindred from receiuing light from the Sunne by the interposition of the earth Ergo the Moon alwaies in those
sweating vnder the Presse Admit there had beene no ordinary calling of right-beleeuing Church-men Bishops or Priests when Luther did first sound his siluer Trumpet what will you inferre thereupon that at that time there was no visible Church There Beza leaues you who professeth both a visible Church in generall consisting of members sound and vnsound and these more or lesse and in particular hee calleth the Waldenses The seed of the most pure antient Christian Church which was miraculously preserued in the midst of the darknes and errors which haue beene hatched by Satan in these latter times And as Beza leaues you in this your inference so also doth the Truth For although the Ship of Christ is in great danger when erronious Pastors like false lights are set vp in the Watch-Towers of Sion yet sith our chiefe Pilot hath forewarned vs heereof and bid vs take heede of false prophets and teachers and hath left vs a most certaine direction in his Word which is the true Light 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 conduct vs to those pulchri portus the faire Hauens in Heauen the people of God may keepe the right way and through Gods grace escape the quick-sands of heresie As God bestoweth diuers gifts of the Spirit ordinarily vpon the Clergie so he bestoweth also where he pleaseth Spiritum discretionis in the Laytie a Spirit whereby they may discerne spirits whether they are of God or no a Spirit by which trying all things they may hold fast that is good And if their ghostly Fathers offer them a stone for bread or a Serpent for fish they will cast it away Or if more cunningly they shall mingle error and heresie with truth and offer them as your Teachers did and doe an apple with a worme in it or a cup of wine with a dead Fly they will take out the worm and Fly and then eat of the one and drink of the other This is that which Lydius truly obserueth Oft-times the eares of the Auditors are purer then the tongue of the Preacher Hee deliuers vngarbled spices they garble it vnsifted meale they sift and boult it impure milke they straine it In the daies of Ieremy and much more after the death of the Prophet Malachy vntill the birth of Christ there were few Doctors in Israel that rightly expounded the Law and taught Gods people as they ought yet no man doubts that God had then a visible Church as also afterwards in the time of the Arrian Eutychian persecution in which there were very few Bishops or Pastors vntainted with those heresies Therefore although we should grant you your antecedent out of Beza that there was no ordinary vocation at that time of pure and sincere Teachers yet wee will barre you of your conclusion that at that time there was no visible Church Our English Diuines alledged by you affirme no such thing Perkins saith not that our Church was simply inuisible but that it was not visible to the world adding in the same place that it lay hid vnder the chaffe of Popery And the truth of this saith hee the Records of all Ages manifest The same Perkins in his Reformed Catholick more fully explaineth his meaning thus Though Popery raigned and ouerspred the face of the earth for many hundred yeeres yet in the middest thereof God reserued a people to himselfe that truly worshipped him The woman fled into the wildernesse c. And she still retaines a remnant of her seed which keepe the commandement of God and haue the testimony of Iesus Christ. See here how farre hee is from denying a Protestant Church extantâ— that he affirmeth it to haue growne vp and thriued euen in the Thicket of Popery though much ouer-shadowed and ouer-topped Neither can you finde any flaw or cloud in that orient Geâ—â—â—â— of our Church Bishop Iewell whose words are these When in the middest of the darknesse of that Age first beganne to spring and shine some glimmering beame of truth vnknowne at that time and 〈◊〉 of When also Martin Luther and Hâ—lderick Zuinglius beeing most excellent men euen seek from God to giue light to the whole world first came to the knowledge and preaching of the Gospell c. A Diamond cannot bee cut or polished but by a Diamond Let therefore this Iewell brighten and cleere himselfe In the same part of the Apologie Chap. 5. Diuis 1. hee calleth Martin Luther the publisher and setter forward of this doctrine not the Author And Chap. 14. Diuis 1. he fully cleeres the point in difference betweene vs touching visible Protestants before Luther Many 〈◊〉 many learned and godly men haue often and carefully complained how all these things haue cleered 〈◊〉 time For euen in the middest of that 〈◊〉 darknesse God would yet there should bee some who though they gaue not a cleere bright light yet should kindle were it but some sparks which men being in darknesse might espie And hee particularly 〈…〉 Hillary Gregory Bernard Pauperes de Lugdâ—â—◠〈◊〉 Bishops of Greece and Asia as also 〈…〉 Petrach Sauanarolla and others And Chapter 15. he preuenteth a câ—uill that might haue bin made against these witnesses of the truth by some ignorant persons Neither saith hee can any man alleage that these Authors were Luthers or Zuinglius Schollers for they liued not only certaine yeeres but also certaine Ages â—re euer Luther or Zuinglius names were heard of Now I pray see M. Fisher what a goodly dish of fish you haue serued in to furnish your Table and let the indifferent Reader iudge whether you may safely trust M. Brerâ—ly or wee you in allegations especially out of Protestant Writers whose words either you corrupt or adulterate their meaning or both as euidently appeares in all the places aboue-cited And thus haue I now at length spung'd out all the spots which your pen hath cast on the Conference As for personall aspersions vpon mee especialy of want of grauity and patience I hold it fittest to refell these and the like slanders by silent and patient enduring them As you heerein take Petilian the Donatist for your precedent of impudent railing so I will take Saint Austen for my patterne of silent patience and cloze vp all further Answer in his words Quid mirum si cùm grana de areâ Domini excussa simul paleam intror sum trabo iniuriam resilientis pulueris suffero What maruell if in sweeping the Lords floore and seeking to gather-in graines that are flowne out I endure a little dust Homo sum enim de areâ Christi palea si malus granum si bonus non est hâ—ius area vâ—niâ—labrum lingus Petiliani I am a man and I know I am of Christs floore that is in his true visible Church all the Papists in the world shall neuer disprooue it If I am euill I am chaffe if good I am wheat and whether I bee the one or the other this is my comfort I am sure the
THE ROMISH FISHER CAVGHT AND HELD IN HIS OWNE NET OR A True Relation of the Protestant Conference and Popish Difference A Iustification of the one and Refutation of the other In matter of FACT FAITH By DANIEL FEATLY Doctor in Diuinity Theodoret. Dial. 2. Cap. 24. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Orthodox Thou art caught in thine owne Net LONDON Printed by H. L. for Robert Milbourne and are to bee sold at the great South-dore of Pauls 1624. TO THE MOST Reuerend Father in God the L rd Arch-Bishop of Canterbury his Grace Primate and Metrapolitane of all England c. my very good Lord. May it please your Grace I Haue euer as much as lay in mee declined and earnestly contended against all contentions and publick Conferences in poynt of Religion with Romish Priests and Iesuites For Poperie as I haue oft learned from your Grace is a doctrine of lyes and as it maintaineth lyes so it can be maintained by no better support then of lyes In all conflicts with men of that faction though their redoubted wrastlers in grappling with our Diuines are put to the worst yet like Pericles in the Theatre bee they indeed neuer so much foyled they will go about by their eloquence to perswade the Spectators that they receiued not but gaue the foyle And as Lysimachus when he receiued a sore wound from Alexander in his fore-head had it presently bound vp and couered with a glorious Diademe so when any of their side are wounded sorely in any skirmish with vs their fellowes presently binde it vp and couer it with a Crowne of a surmised victorie I well knew and foretold the Pitcher of the field that whatsoeuer the issue of the combate were Master Deane of Carlile and my selfe should be notwithstanding conquered in effigie and led in triumph in many a Pageant at Doway Bruxels Rhemes and Rome as since we haue seene in Letters and gazettaes from beyond the Seas Omnia praecepi atque animo mecum antè peregi Yet knowing that truth is strong in her weakest and falshood is weake in her strongest Champions and being vrgently desired by the friends and personally challenged by the enemies of our most holy Faith to appeare as a Second in her sacred iust quarrel malui in illo praesertim legum et iustitiae publicae iustitio Iesuitas fractos quà m despectos dimittere I chose in that high floate of the Iesuites pride and hopes rather by an encounter to represse their insolencie then by a refusall increase their arrogancie Neither was the diuine Assistance and benediction wanting at the Conference nor since for by it the old Gentleman whose intended satisfaction drew on this meeting was settled as himselfe vnder his hand twice professed and resolued in that point which before left a scruple in his conscience And by occasion of this Dispute the Chronicles of the Reformed Churches haue beene better searched into and some most vsefull Relations and Treatises touching the Visibility of the Church brought to light and more publick view then before And albeit his Maiesty vpon the first noise and mis-report of this disputation seemed to distast it yet when the whole truth of that which passed that day together with the occasion and issue thereof appeared to his Maiesty in its natiue hiew the former cloud which threatned a bitter showre was by your Graces fauourable breath suddenly blowne ouer and then the true Relation of that Conference finding the skie cleere stole wings to and from the presse and flew freely abroad euery where checking and controuling the Iesuits false Relations and plucking from their heads those Lawrell garlands wherewith they had crowned their temples for their owne noble exployts that day It could not bee expected that this printed Relation should haue beene otherwise entertained by Master Fisher and Master Sweet the Popish Combatants then it was who after a month or two set vpon it in print and dealt with it as the wife of Anthony did with Tullies tongue after his death they thrust it thorow and thorow with needles and stabbed it againe and againe with their poysoned pens the one writing an answer to it the other a censure of it To both these Pamphlets this Reply is addressed In the former part Master Fishers Answer to the Fisher catched in his owne Net is censured in the latter Master Sweet's Censure is answered And because opposita iuxta se posita magis elucescunt I haue printed Master Fisher's Text with my Reply thereunto vt dum haeretici hominis venena lector cognoscit libentiùs orthodoxi bibat antidotum If any thing be omitted the occasion and reason of the omission is not omitted Had I set down all the Iesuites battologies Idem delicti fierem reprehensor et author Whatsoeuer I haue done heerein I submit to your Graces censure and fauourable construction thereof I acknowledge it is not a worthy present for your Grace yet because it is my first fruits in this kinde it of right belongeth to the high Priest the rather because the growth of it was vpon your sacred gleabe The Stork which alwaies leaues one of her young ones in the house where shee breeds for the Owner thereof teacheth mee this poynt of gratitude to offer that to your Grace which was bred vnder your Graces roofe Siue legas quo dabo siue tegas Did not these and many other priuate respects challenge this dedication to your Grace yet the sweet influence which your Graces gouernment continually distilleth vpon Gods Inheritance among vs would cause from any heart and pen not barren the returne of some sweet spiration of praises to God and thanksgiuing to your Grace for your incessant trauels in Gods cause The costly oyntment which on Palme-Sunday last flowed abundantly from your lips so cheered vp and reuiued that numberlesse Auditory that your Graces Name is as a most fragrant oyntment sending foorth a most sweet sauour through the whole Kingdome What should I speake of the most happie and ioyfull newes of our thrice-noble Prince's returne out of Spaine whereof your Grace was the first siluer Trumpet to the City And God bee blessed for it the Trumpet gaue not an vncertaine sound Those glorious night-Tapours which were set so thick together in the streets that they made a kinde of Galaxia in the City were all kindled early in the morning at your Graces sacred Lamp Sicut Marcelli praelio ad Nolam saith the Orator populus Romanus primò se erexit posteà multaeres prosperae consequutae sunt As the Roman State after many disasters first began to cheere vp againe at Marcellus his victory at Nola and afterwards much good fortune followed so after much sorrow and more feare the happy Returne of our Prince first cheered vp our drooping spirits and after that many happie things haue followed whereof vnder his Maiestie your Grace haue been and are together with your noble Associates in this high Court of Parliament the principall Instruments Ride on
in the Lords march prosperously with your honour because of truth and righteousnesse and your right hands shall teach your terrible things terrible things to the Whore of Babylon but comfortable to Christs afflicted Spouse The good will of him who dwelt in the bush make your Aarons Rod to flourish more and more to the glory of his Name aduancement of the Truth honour of the Priest-hood and your owne endlesse ioy and comfort This we all of the Tribe of Leui are bound to pray for in generall and I my selfe more specially as beeing Your Graces most humbly-deuoted Chaplaine in house and seruant DANIEL FEATLY The Preface to the Protestants Relation of the Conference IVNE 27. 1623. BEing commanded by my Lord his Grace of Canterbury from his Maiesty to certifie the truth of that which passed in a late conference in point of Religion at Sir Linde's house in Sheer-Lane in London we who were present at the Conference partly out of the fresh memory of such passages as we then obserued but especially by help of such Notes as were taken in the Conference it self subscribed by both the Disputants drew vp within a week after as perfect a Relation of the substance thereof as we could wherein as we added nothing to the aduantage or preiudice of either party so wee omitted nothing of moment in the Current of the Arguments and Answers As for some interlocutory speeches of the right honourable the Earl of Warwick who diuers times seasonably interposed and when the Disputants or standers-by grew into any heat or distemper discreetly tempered both sides Ille regit dictis animos pectora mulcet those passages we inserted not into our narration because the Earle beeing not then in London we held it incongruous without his Honours knowledge to vse his name to the King For other omissions the Iesuites are beholding vnto vs for they were in fauour of them wee beeing loth to bee vngues in vlcere to bee thought to rub too hard vpon a gawle but rather desirous to carry the whole Relation as fairly and passably as might be We had thought the Iesuites would haue pardoned vs this wrong After this originall Draught was by vs tendered to his Grace of Canterbury and by his Grace deliuered to the Kings Maiesty some Copie as we vnderstand was taken for the satisfaction of a Person of quality which passing from one to another in the end fell into the hands of some Stationers who without licence or knowledge of those whom it most concerned committed it to the Presse de questu magis quà m quaestione soliciti And the better to vent this new wine they set a faire Garland before the dore intituling it The FISHER caught in his owne Net Which Title was not deuised nor prefixed by any of vs we willingly leaue the vanity of such affected inscriptions to our Aduersaries who make themselues ridiculous in this kinde One intituleth his Answer to D. White WHITE dyed black Another cals his woodden Pamphlet The Gag of the new Religion or of the reformed Gospell Another his Reply to M. BELL Cecidit BELL The dolefull knell of THOMAS BELL. This is not the sound of AARON'S golden Bell but rather of the tinkling Cymball mentioned by Saint PAVL 1. Cor. 13. Fancies and Iigs make no good Church-musick Nobis non licet esse tam disertis Qui Musas colimus sacratiores For the Title therefore wee approoue it not but for the Conference it selfe it containeth nothing but the truth whatsoeuer the Aduersaries giue out to the contrary who as it seemeth hold it a work of supererogation to forge and coyne signall and transcendent Leasings for the Catholick Cause for although the Iesuites at this Conference were often vncertaine and alwaies very slow and tardy in their Answers and in fine answered nothing but that they would not answer Doctor FEATLY his instance in CHRIST and his Apostles yet haue they or their Schollers proclaimed in Gath and published in Ascalon such a victory as neuer was heard much like the wonderfull coniunction of the superior Planets which was neâ—er seene About a weeke after the Conference the noble Earle of Warwick who had bin present at it hauing occasion to passe ouer the Seas and comming to Saint Omers had the Company of Doctor Weston at his Inne to whom this Doctor taking the Earle for a Romane Catholick told for fresh and most happy newes out of England that at a Conference betweene Father FISHER and SVVEET Iesuites and two Protestant Ministers in London the Iesuites had quitted themselues so well and the Catholique faith preuailed so farre that two Earles and an hundred other of the Auditory were gayned to the Church of Rome by this Incounter of these two Earles the party to whom hee spake was one who could not but smile at this Relation Risit Atlantiades et me mihi perfide prodis Me mihi prodis ait A pretty Comick Scene where the Spectator is made an Actor and a false person put vpon him to his face a renowned and constant Protestant borne downe to be a Romish Proselyte As for the reuolt of the other Earle and pretended Centurie of Protestant Romane Conuerts we beleeue it as firmely as that S. BRIGET laid her Wimple and Saint ALDELME his Chesible vpon a beame of the Sunne which supported them That Saint NICOLAS while hee lay in his cradle fasted Wednesday and Fryday these daies hee would not suck but once in the day That Saint PATRICK caused a stolne sheep to bleate in the belly of him that had eaten it That the corps of S. LAVRENCE at the coming of Saint STEPHENS body smiled for ioy and turned it selfe to the other side of the Sepulcher to make roome for him that CLEMENS wrote a Letter to Saint IAMES the brother of our Lord seuen yeeres after hee was dead that Saint DENNIS carried his head in his hand three miles and rested at each place of the posts that are set betweene Paris and Saint Dennis that Saint DVNSTONE held the diuell fast by the nose with a paire of tongues that the chamber of our Lady was carried by Angels through the Ayre from Palestine to Loretto in Italy that our Lady helped Saint THOMAS BECKET to mend or stitch his hayre-cloth that a Parrat crying out Saint THOMAS help me was deliuered from an Hawk that Saint LVPVS shut vp the diuell in a tankard all night that Saint DOMINICK made the Diuell hold the candle to him till hee burnt his fingers that Saint FRANCIS swallowed a Spider in a Chalice which Spider came whole out of his thigh that the Image of the Crucifix turnd tayle to GREGORY the Monke when hee went from the Vespers to walk in the Chapter house that Fryer ANDREVV to correct his appetite of eating birds at the Table by the signe of the Crosse commanded them to fly away after they were rosted