thou pray heartily with the Church That God would bring into the way of truth all such as have erred and are deceived Popery Manifested AND THE Papist Incognito made known By way of DIALOGVE between a Papist Priest a Protestant Gentleman and a Presbyterian Divine The Second Part. Pr. YOur Servant Sir I come to see how you do and to spend an hour with you according to my promise G. Sir you are very welcome I am glad to see you and I was very impatient of your coming as much to enjoy your good company my self as to procure it to this old acquaintance of mine who long'd for it as much as I did Pr. Ha I doubt you have too many such acquaintances I know the man and am sorry to see you should keep company with him an Enemy to Christ and Christian Religion Take heed Sir Antichrist is of a very seducing Spirit Pa. Oh how now Master you fall foul upon me already that 's a very coarse Complement to salute me with the odious name of Antichrist But I hope you are not in earnest for my part I am glad to see you and desire to shake hands with you if it will not defile the holiness of yours Pr. Avoid Satan I would not have so much as your shadow to touch me and I am sorry to polute mine eyes with the sight of such a foul object as you are no there ought to be no communication betwixt light and darkness Pa. That 's true too but I 'll warrant you you and I are much of a dye and I am not of so dark a colour as you think I dare say for all your great aversion to me your Religion and mine differ but a little or at least nothing so much as that of the Church of England which you think comes very near to ours I can make it appear that we of Rome are agreed in many things with the English Presbyterians wherein we greatly differ from other Protestants come my good Friend let you and I dispute the case a little you shall find that I 'll give you great satisfaction in it Pr. These be impertinent brags and paradoxes I need no satisfaction in the case I am sure enough of the contrary There are no men under the Sun that hate and abhor Popery so much as we do therefore you may spare your labour and keep your breath for a better use G. Pray Sir don't shrink or else you 'll give him occasion to insult and me to be doubtful Sure after having been these twenty years set about the extirpation of Popery you are not afraid of being now prov'd a Papist Come make him repent of his bold challenge and make it appear that your practice and opinions are as averse to Rome as your words and clamors have been P. Yet still I stand upon my first ground you come very near to the Church of Rome in many things wherein you differ from the Church of England even in those things that are counted the worst of our errours Pr. I shall quickly confute your false and daring Assertion And first your Church doth greatly derogate from the Word of God and makes it inferiour to her Traditions and the Determinations of her Popes and Councils Can you charge us with any such thing Pa. Yes that I can You do greatly undervalue the same Divine Word to set up your Sermons the higher you perswade your people that that is the only Preaching and the true and only Word of God which you deliver out of your Pulpits so that your own Discourses are more attended and more regarded than the Bible it self And so prevalent is this opinion that those of your sort that go to the Parish Churches defer to go in while the Psalms the Chapters and the Epistle and Gospel are reading as if these were not worth the hearing But what is of the mans own making they will listen to attentively and perhaps write it down and repeat it with a great deal of Devotion Gods Word is but a Woodden Dagger with you it doth not reach the heart but the worst Sermon in your Conventicles pierceth the very soul and makes the people sigh and groan and take on most pitifully the powerfulness of Preaching indangers the very heart-strings And so current 't is amongst you that your Preaching is the Word of God that 't is call'd by the name of The Gospel and to hear it is made a Mark of Election So Mr. Jeremiah Burroughs told the Parliament â—â—rm print â—645 p. 2. When I consider this place Westminster the extraordinary hand of God in bringing the Gospel to be preacht to you here in power those thoughts presently arise there is hope that there are many souls here belonging to Gods Election surely many will come in and imbrace the Gospel here And by the transcribing those sacred Oracles men were to judge of the condition their souls were in Thomas Palmer in a Sermon of his tells the people 164â— p. â—8 That to hear Sermons and not write them is like taking water in a Sieve You keep a Shop-Book saith he O be perswaded to keep a Soul-Book that you may know how your Spiritual Estate stands belike those that had much written had very rich souls what increase or decrease of Grace you make this recording of revealed Truths and Soul-experiences from God would be of admirable use in time of trouble This is the difference in the case we undervalue Scripture that we may heed the more the Decrees of our Pope and you that you may the better attend to the dictates of every one of your Sermonizers Pr. I know all you can alledge will come short of what you would prove therefore I don't intend to trouble my self with answering your impertinencies it would but make our Discourse too tedious let this Gentleman be judge betwixt you and I who are in tâ—e right Pa. That will be very well I 'll follow your example and endeavour to shorten our Dialogue by pleading guilty tâ— every Article Charge our Religion with what you will I 'll deny nothing but shew you your â—wn face in that Mirrour you shall reach to me Come proceed Pr. In your publick Worship you use an unknown Tongue which the people doth not understand and thereby you keep them in ignorance that they may not be able to discern the errours of your Religion I am sure you can tax us with no such thing for we make all things plain to our hearers and they are an understanding and a knowing people who have more light in spiritual matters than any people whatsoever Pa. You do but fancy so they are as ignorant as any of us and they understand as little what you say though you speak English yet you speak an unknown Language to the people for you have so spiritualiz'd Religion that you have made riddles and mysteries of the plainest of its Doctrines it all consists in new-coin'd phrases and spiritual notions and
meaning of Scripture and make themselves blind that they may be led by those that pretend to Infallibility and a supreme Authority in things of Faith As for the Decisions of your Popes and Councils it hath been observed by learned men of ours that they are also subject to mis-interpretation and that they have not been able so much as to compose any one of those Differences that have been and are still amongst you And indeed why should not God speak as plain as the Pope in what is absolutely necessary to be known Is it because he is not able or because he is not willing we should know the truth But Friend whilst you tax the Scripture with obscurity and make the people think 't is a dangerous Book see whether you do â—ot give the lie to God himself who saith Ps 19 7 8. The â—aw of the Lord is perfect converting the soul the Testimony of the Lord is sure making wise the simple according to Rome it should have been making the simple to err The Statutes of the Lord are right rejoycing the heart the commandment of the Lord is pure enlightning the eye not blinding or darkning the eye Psal 119 105. In another place Thy word is a lamp unto my feet and a light unto my path Could any thing be more express against the charge of obscurity 2 Cor. 4.3 4. And so S. Paul saith If our Gospel be hid it is hid to them that perish in whom the God of this world hath blinded the minds lest the light of the glorious Gospel of Christ who is the image of God should shine unto them It seems the Gospel hath a light that shines unto men and the devil endeavours to blind them that they may not see it and whether the Pope be not an useful instrument to that effect let them judge that are not yet quite blind Sure if there was so great a danger in reading the Scriptures God would not have commanded his people so absolutely to study his Law Christ would not have preached to the multitudes for his words might be misinterpreted as well spoken as written and the Apostles should not have directed their Epistles to all the people of Corinth Ephesus c. We should rather have been forbidden searching the Scriptures and sent to his Holiness to know what we must believe and do P. Sir you are tedious in your Reasons and Proofs and whereas I cite only one of our approved Doctors at a time and that in few words you bring me I don't know how many places of Scripture I had rather you would tell me what Luther or the Church of Geneva have resolv'd in these Controversies G. 'T would be to no purpose for we regard not their opinions nor those of any private men but as far as they agree with the truth Our Church is founded upon that Catholic and unchangeable truth which God hath revealed in the Sacred Books and which hath been and is still entertain'd by all those that own the Fundamentals of Christianity Therefore as I have told you 't will be the shortest way for me to back those Doctrins of our Church which oppose any of yours by the authority of Gods Revelations his most Holy Word which is a sufficient foundation for us to ground our faith upon P. As far as I can see you are run a great way off from us for we as many as own the Pope to be the Head and Monarch of the Church never mind what the Scripture saith we follow blind-fold the Judgment of our Church as a most infallible guide Bellar. de Rom. Pont. l. 4. c. â— We believe that neither the Pope nor the particular Church of Rome can err in things of Faith Non solum Pontifex Romanus non potest errare in fide sed neque Romana particularis Ecclesia No Sir take it from Bellarmin Bellar. de Eccles l. â— c. 14. It is absolutely impossible that the Church should err in any thing whether it be necessary or not Nostra est sententia Ecclesiam absolute non posse errare nec in rebus absolute necessariis nec in aliis G. And you Sir take it from experience that the Church of Rome could and hath greatly erred in many things if it be an error to make huge additions to the antient Creeds and to go directly against the Word of God And though it be impossible that ever the Universal Church should forsake and deny the saving truths of Christian Religion because of the Promise of Christ Matth. 16.18 Yet any one particular Church or Society of Christians though never so great may err and that in Fundamentals as we know of some Pseudo-Councils that have broach'd or confirm'd damnable Heresies And accordingly the Scripture saith Rom. 3.4 Let God be true and every man a liar the Bishop of Rome himself is not excepted And doubtless if the Church of Rome was infallible and the only guide that can lead us to heaven God who hath revealed to us the way to happiness would not have omitted so essential a thing But instead of a command wholly to rely on the judgment of the Pope speaking ex Cathedra we are commanded to prove all things 1 Thess 5 2â— 1 Joh. 4.1 and to hold fast that which is good and again to try the spirits whether they be of God because many false Prophets are come out into the world Now how shall we try them but by the Word of God and if we find you do not follow it why should we any longer follow you Find me as many Texts out of Gods Word to prove that your great Bishop is infallible and that we are all bound to believe every thing he saith as I have produc'd already for the Divine Authority of Scripture and its sufficiency to bring us unto Salvation and then we 'll weigh them together and my faith shall follow the heavier Scale But when we prove and demonstrate that you err and go directly against Scripture for you to come and say that it is impossible because you are infallible and free from all error is to my thinking a very odd and unsatisfactory answer P. Well if you talk of Scripture till to morrow I am sure ours is the Antient Catholic Church without the which there is no salvation But your Religion is a new upstart you cannot shew me where it was and the Professors of it two hundred years ago G. As for the Professors where they were and that there were many even in the highth of Popery is a long Historical labour but ready done to my hand by several learned men the Author of Catalogus testium Verit. Abbot Vsher Fox White c. They were in the Eastern and Greec Churches much larger than that of Rome they were amongst you some declar'd and marty'd for it some for peace sake living in the Communion of your Church and some conceled for fear of your cruelty sighing in secret for
mediata per populum aut ordines regni vel Senatum civitatis at si istud non succedat qui est status necessitatis potest per se immediate procedere dando illius regnum alteri Orthodoxo principi vel primo victori Orthodoxo illud assignando ut Stephanus Papa transtulit imperium à Graecis ad Germanos Innocentius quartus interdixit regni administrationem Regi Portugaliae fratrem ejus substituens c. So likewise Cardinal Bellarmine doth teach That though the Pope as Pope may not usually yet that as Supreme Spiritual Prince he may for the good of souls dispose of Kingdoms as he thinks good take them away from one and give them to another Non potest Papa ut Papa ordinarie c. tamen potest mutare regna uni auferre atque alteri conferre tanquam summus Princeps Spiritualis si id necessarium sit ad animarum salutem For you must know That in the Church the Ecclesiastick and the Civil Power are as in Man the Spirit and the Flesh and that Kingdoms and Governments are not immediately of God but of Men whereas the Power of the Bishop of Rome comes immediately from God Bell. de Rom. Pont. l. 5. c. 6. Vt se habent in homine spiritus caro sic se habent in Ecclesia potestas politica Ecclesiastica regna non sunt immediate à Deo instituta sed ab hominibus Pontificatus autem à Deo immediate est institutus And so The Pope hath power to dispose of all temporal things belonging to all Christians in general Pontifex Romanus in ordine ad bonum spirituale habet summam potestatem disponendi de temporalibus rebus omnium Christianorum And according to that unlimited Power in the Head the Body of the Clergy enjoys great Priviledges They are above or at least equal to King and Princes and therefore not bound to obey them neither by Divine nor Humane right Ibid. Respectu clericorum non sunt principes superiores potestates ac proinde non tenentur clerici principibus parere neque jure divino neque humano nisi quantum ad leges quasdam directivas i. e. non obligatione eoactiva And so The Goods and Estates of Clergy-men as well Temporal as Ecclesiastick are and ought to be free from Taxes and all duties to Princes and they themselves ought not to be judged by any Civil Magistrate although they do not observe Civil Laws Bell. de Clericis L. 1. c. 28. Non possunt Clerici à judice saeculari judicari etiamsi leges civiles non servent Bona clericorum tam Ecclesiastica quam saecularia libera sunt ac merito esse debent à tributis principum saecularium G. Yes I see your Pope is a petty God upon Earth his Power is not to be controul'd and whatever he doth his Almightiness and Infallibility will bear him out and make the thing good and just though it seem never so much otherwise But sure in this he is none of Christs Vicar the meek and humble JESVS would not so much as divide the Inheritance betwixt two Brethren much less dispose of whole Kingdoms he paid tribute to Caesar and acknowledged his Authority to be from above and we read no where that ever he gave any such power to his Apostles or their Successors as the Pope pretends to He told them indeed that they should be brought and condemned before the Tribunals of Kings and Princes but did no where tell them that ever Kings and Princes should be brought before their Pontifical Chairs to be judged and punished by them We read but of one that ever pretended to have the power of disposing of the Kingdoms of the World he that said All these things will I give thee Mat. 4.9 And except the Head of your Church will acknowledge himself to be his Surrogate he had best shew us how he came by the same Power But this Doctrine is so contrary to the example and Religion of our Lord Jesus Christ that it will be its own antidote you your selves are ashamed to own it openly and when it is known it is confuted P. I see we shall never agree as to particulars as long as you believe to have the Scripture on your side you 'll never yield to the Authority of our Church which you don't think to be infallible But in general by your own Confession ours is the best and the safest Church for you yield that a man may be sav'd in it whereas we utterly deny the same priviledge to yours Stapl. contr 3. quaest 9. 10. the Communion of the Church of Rome being absolutely necessary to the Salvation of all men Romanae Ecclesiae Communio omnibus est ad salutem necessaria You also grant that the Bishop of Rome is St. Peters Successor which is a great point And I believe you won't deny but that there is Miracles wrought in our Church which are unanswerable Arguments of the truth of its Doctrine These three are substantial points and will abundantly outweigh all the petty Objections you can bring against some parts of our Religion Pray consider of them at your leisure G. To my thinking they require no great consideration and there is no such weight in them as you fancy though you make great use of such woodden Arguments to seduce the simple yet to those that have but an ordinary competency of knowledge they seem very insignificant The first is comon to you with our Fanaticks they all confine Salvation every one to his own Sect and you and they together take advantage of our charity in that we don't exclude you out of Heaven you believe that you only shall come in it But Mr. Novator don't you trust to our charitable Opinions we may be mistaken for we pretend to no infallibility There was two Barques putting out to Sea both of them bound for Jerusalem one was rotten leaky and much out of order but the Master of it was a bold Man and of an imposing Spirit he would perswade the people that it was St. Peters own Barque that it was imposing Spirit he would perswade the people that it was St. Peters own Barque that it was impossible it should sink and that all as many as would not come into it should certainly be drown'd and never come to the Holy Land The other Barque was sound and strong and well fitted for the Voyage the Passengers therein would tell those in the leaky one of their great danger and exhort them to stop the holes and put things in better order though they did not despair but that some of them might swim to shore upon some pieces of the Barque Now do you think this mans confidence would hold his sinking Ship upon the Water or that the compassionates hopes and wishes of the others would make their own sink Certainly uncharitableness is a very unfit mark to know Christianity and the true Church by But let me tell
fancies and secrets Pray hear what Mr. Francis Cheynell preacht before the Parliament Serm. 1646. p. 2. and 3. God doth communicate rare secrets to certain known and chosen men to Prophets Prophecies Christ to his Disciples Gospel-secrets Doctrinal-secrets God to men of publick spirits secrets of State and we have seen such admirable experiences of Gods mercy in this kind within these five years that our Posterity will scarcely believe what we have seen God imparts mysterious secrets to his chosen people some secrets to make them his friends other secrets after they are his friends convincing secrets humbling secrets converting secrets Don't you think that these secrets are as bad as Latine Again if I may cite the words of one who was somewhat nearer to the Lord than you Thomas Brooks in a Sermon of his 1648. p. 19. O if God would raise up Parliament-men and men in the Army and in the City and round the Kingdom to more spiritual acquaintance with himself to more internal knowledge we should find that they would do abundantly more gloriously for it is want of an internal spiritual knowledge of God that men are Newters Apostates c. As you would do glorious and honourable things look to this that ye have an internal knowledge and spiritual acquaintance with God and this will enable you to do Exploits If you would do gloriously keep your Evidences for Glory always bright and shining soil not your Evidences for Glory And p. 20. If Parliament-men and men in all the Kingdom would believe more gloriously they would do more gloriously for God Spiritual internal knowledge and acquaintance bright Evidences believing gloriously I should think these as hard to be understood by ordinary people as an Ave Maria yet doubtless your people must needs be very knowing when you find them with Books whose very Titles if well understood would be able to open the seven Seals Jos Caryl Preach of Lincolns-Inn 1644. The Saints thankful acclamation at Christs Resumption of his great power and the Initials of his Kingdom A Thanksgiving Sermon for one of your Victories at Selby in York-shire The Thoughts of the Almighty A Sermon preacht before the Mayor by a Divine of the Assembly wherein 't is like those thoughts had been revealed to him John Strickland 1644. Such Books must needs give great instruction to thâ— people and the light of this following Doctrine would questionless expel even an Egyptian darkness T. Palmer ibid. Who would not now desire to close with Christ and love Christ and walk with Christâ— yea who would not be rouled up and wholly inclosed in Christ The many Sermons you printed twenty years agone are for the most part full of such insignificant canting and unintelligible mysteries Now I say it matters not whether it be English or Latine as long as the people doth not understand both will keep them equally ignorant I note only these two differences because they make for us First that our Priests understand their Latine whereas your Rabbies themselves cannot make sense of many of their English Mysteries And secondly that if our people are ignorant at least they are conscious of it and therefore do follow the Church whereas your Disciples when they have got by heart your empty phrases are so self-conceited of their great skill in discerning the things of the Spirit that they judge all others blind that won't admire them and will venture to expound the hardest places in Scripture and sometimes leave you and set up for themselves Pr. The Canons and Injunctions of your Church and the numberless Ceremonies she hath appointed you observe with as much strictness as if they were commanded by God himself and so you make your own devices equal to Gods Ordinances I am sure we do quite contrary for we allow nothing to be done in Gods service but what he hath appointed himself and we will have Scripture for the very Circumstances of Divine Worship Pa. I remember indeed that five of your Doctors told us in an Apology they presented to the Parliament Jer. Bur. Will. Bri. Ph. Nye Syd Sam. Th. Good pag. 10. That they were certain there was in Scripture Rules and ruled Cases for all occasions whatsoever if we were able to discern them But I never heard that they had found out only so much as enough to determine all the Circumstances of Gods Worship However I am sure you have by far out-done us in the magnifying and imposing of your own inventions You told us that if your intended Reformation which was doubtless a device of your own did not take Christianity should go near to be lost The Minister of Ashford in Kent in a Sermon before the Committee of that County Jos Boden 1644. p. 30. informs them of the present danger of loosing the Christian Religion through all the Churches of the World if they should be careless and neglect the opportunity put into their hands The Lord saith he hath set this as a prize but we must run for it this is proposed as a Crown to the Saints but we must fight for it yea and reason good George Gillespie 1645. p. 17. for that Reformation was according to the mind of Christ saith a Minister of Edinburgh to the Commons at Westminster I confess you have rejected the ancient Ceremonies of the Church all that was not of your devising as Mr. Calamy told the Parliament We that live under the Gospel know that the worship of God the more spiritual the more beautiful it is in the eyes of God who is a Spirit and that the outward pomp in Gods service is an attire more fit for the Whore of Babylon than for the modest Spouse of Christ and that Musick in Gods service though it may please the ears of men yet it is unpleasing in the ears of God if you 'll take his word for it But what was of your own inventing O that is much made of Your Presbyterian Government was said to be of Christs own Institution F. Cheynel Serm. 1646. Ep. Dedic Ch. Love at Uxb. p. 20. so the Parliament was taught and you grac'd it with glorious Epithets as in these lines God is feeling the pulse of this Nation looking how we are affected me thinks I hear the Lord asking the Inhabitants of this Kingdom Will you have your Bishops your Common-Prayer-Book c. or will ye have the Gospel in power a reformation in purity your Assemblies refin'd your pollutions removed and the Government of my Son Establisht in the midst of you And so the setling of your Discipline was the setling Christ in his Throne as Mr. White hath it in the Preface to his Centuries 1643. Let us set hand and heart and shoulder and all to advance the Lords Sion to a perfection of beauty and to set up Christ upon his Throne And so another great One of yours S. Marshal Serm. to the Parl. 1643. p. 19. Did ever any Parliament in
England lay the cause of Christ and Religion to heart as this hath done Did ever the City of London the rest of the Tribes and the godly Party throughout the Land so willingly exhaust themselves that Christ might be set up And pag. 20. Let all England cry that our Bloud our Poverty c. are abundantly repaid in this that there is such a concurrence to set up the Lord Christ upon his Throne to be Lord and Christ over this our Israel And the best of it is that when you had nothing to say for the antiquity of your goodly Discipline and Directory you would make it a Diopetes a thing fallen from Heaven or like the Heathen Legislators receiv'd from God himself that it might be reverenc'd accordingly Ibid. p. 20 The same person told his Auditory Here you have a reverend Assembly of grave and learned Divines who daily wait upon the Angel in the Mount to receive from him the lively Oracles and the pattern of Gods house to present to you But that which you magnified most of all and which was as much your own contrivance as your belov'd Directory was the Covenant the blessed Covenant There is not a Text in Scripture that speaks of the Covenants God hath made with men at any time but it was applied to your own by your learned Preachers Scripture Sacraments none of Gods Ordinances was comparable to it it was so divine and so excellent Proofs are almost needless in a thing so well known yet I 'll bring two or three out of Mr. Case's Sermons on the Covenant upon this Text Th. Case p. 59. Levit. 26.25 A wonderful mercy a high favour may we count it from our God that yet such a sovereign means is left us for our recovery and reconciliation And then saith he pag. 61. How shall we escape if we neglect so great salvation Again pag. 19. There are found amongst us so many profane Ephramitish and Zabulonitish spirits that do contemptuously reject the Covenant of God And pag. 31. It was no small thing that poor Creatures should be married to the living God by the Covenant yea be one with him yea perfect in one What could you have said more except you had quite Deified it Now therefore in this business I see no more difference betwixt you and us than this that our Constitutions our Devices and our Ceremonies are more in number but acknowledged to be of Humane Institution whereas yours be fewer but of a Divine Origine as you say either from Scripture or some latter revelation but let the quality go for the quantity and we are agreed for 't is well known that you were as severe to those that would not conform and obey as ever was the Pope of Rome Pr. Now you put me in mind of it have any such thing as a Pope who pretends to be chosen by Gods Spirit and so acted by it that whatever he saith must be assented to as true he being altogether infallible Don't we rather reach That God only is free from all errour and ignorance but that no man enjoys that priviledge Pa. No you have no such thing as one only Pope but you have a great many for every Minister of yours pretends to the same Authority and the same Priviledges and I believe that 's the reason you hate him of Rome so much because he will have no fellows but reign all alone I know not how 't is amongst you now but heretofore the Reforming Parliament-men themselves were chosen by the Spirit as Mr. Case told them in a Sermon Tho. Case 1644. p. 9. Surely had not the Spirit of the Lord gone forth to a wonder of wisdom and power in bespeaking the Votes of the people for a major part of men whose spirits were above fears and above flatteries c. If Parliament-men much more Ministers but I need no inference the Spirit was poured upon you all in such a measure that all ranks of people were endued by it with Heroick nay even Angelick Vertues and Abilities or else Mr. Case was mistaken for thus he said Ibid. p. 28 As the Spirit of the Lord came upon Sampson and Jephtah and David so hath it been in our conflicts the Spirit of the Lord hath come upon our Noble General and all our Commanders the Spirit of the Lord hath come upon our Gallants Gentlemen Young men faithful Country-men renowned Citizens so that he that was weak among them is as David and he that was as David hath been as the Angel of the Lord. And you the teaching Elders you pray by the Spirit and you preach by the Spirit wherefore it is I suppose that you call your Sermons the Gospel and Gods Word and if long Prayers and Sermons be a sign of having much of the Spirit any of you may vie it with all the Popes of Rome put together Nay and to make the parallel compleat you pronounce Bulls and Fulminations by the Spirit too Wil Beech Serm. Licenc'd by Mr. Cramford 1645. p. 10. Tell them from the Holy Ghost saith Mr. Beech from the Word of Truth that their destruction shall be terrible it shall be timely it shall be total And 't is more than probable you would have made Canonical Scripture ere now had not the Kings Return somewhat frighted away that Spirit you were so possest withal But in this there is still some difference betwixt our Opinions for with us the Pope hath the greatest part of the Spirit if not all of it whereas your Ministers are all sharers of it Pr. Yet still for ought you have said it doth not appear that we pretend to Infallibility we don't arrogate to our selves the power of interpreting Scripture exclusively to all others and before we have declar'd what the sense of it is we don't call it as you do A Waxen Nose which may be turn'd all manner of ways and never right till we fix it our selves Pa. One thing after another pray we have done with the Spirit which is the cause of Infallibility we shall now come to the expounding of Scripture which is the effect of that cause And to give you your due I must needs say that you have done very much in this and if you will but go on as you have begun you 'll go near to perswade posterity that a body may expound Scripture out of a Scotch Pulpit as well as out of St. Peters Chair and a great deal better for besides the Doctrinal part beyond which Popes could never go Presbyterians expound Prophecies and make Prophecies too Pray hear some of them Jer. Bur. Serm. 1643. p. 7â— All the Saints in these days should be full of the Spirit strong in the might of the Lord because Jesus Christ is about to pull down that great Enemy of his that Man of Sin and in his Conquest is said to come with Garments dipt in Bloud Rev. 19. Do you think any man but he could have seen that this
of England write this upon your walls and have it in your eyes in all your Consultations and have respect to the Saints the whole lump of them if you will maintain your interest whole and intire have regard to the Saints small and great More could not have been said to perswade the people to do you good and in this you are in no wise inferiour to the most self-preaching Monks Pr. I scorn your words we are in nothing like your foolish Fryars Presbyterians are a serious and considering people who serve God according to his VVord in spirit and in truth whereas they mind nothing but their fopperies their superstitions and biggotteries whereby they have made Religion ridiculous Pa. Yes you would fain make the world believe that your new-devised Church-Government and every thing you speak and do is Scripture and according to the Spirit and truth and to hear you cry up your Orders and outward circumstances of divine Service one would think you had found Scriptural or spiritual Ceremonies But when all comes to all it is only this that you make Religion and Godliness to consist in rejecting that decent and instructing Order in Divine VVorship which the Primitive Church used and transmitted to us for to follow your irreverent and unseemly manner of worshipping God according to your own minds But that you also have done enough to make Religion ridiculous and fabulous too is easie to be seen by what I have said and shall say further the many intolerabiles ineptias you preached in your best-studied Sermons before your Parliament and printed afterwards as being excellent Discourses are sufficient proofs that your grave out-sides are inwardly full of emptiness or something else and I protest nothing can fully represent how ridiculous you have made the Publick Offices of Religion as being an eye-witness of it in your Private Meetings And had you not besotted your people by making them believe that what others do is all Popish and Antichristian but what you do your selves is Scripture and Gods Ordinance in purity they would hiss you out of your Desks or at least leave you there alone to enjoy your extravagant humours I leave it as a conclusion to be drawn from our whole Discourse when it is ended that you have made Religion ridiculous or rather that yours is a mock-Religion consisting altogether as to the exterior of it in new-made Prayers and Sermons spoken with a certain piteous tone and some affected faces and paroxisms of Zeal such as Mr. Cheynel was in when he told the Parliament 1646. p. 4. I arrest you this day at the Suit of the great Jehovah for a Debt of ten thousand talents nay millions of millions and over and above of High Treason against the three Persons of the ever-blessed Trinity and then he was in a Trance pag. 24. Oh saith he I feel I bless God I feel my self transported even beyond my self with raptures and extasies of love I could tell you of Christ-concerning-points and Soul-concerning-points of Parliament-repentance and Sacrament-repentance and Bed-repentance and Shop-repentance and many such new-coined phrases which are none of the least part of the powerfulness of preaching And I could tell you of a receipt which is as the extract of a Book called Parliament-Physick for a sick Nation Licensed by Mr. J. Cranford which makes a mock-Physick or Divinity of all Evangelick and moral Vertues 1644. p. 112. A great deal of fopperies and futilities as you charge us with might be pickt out of the Sermons as you then printed and I doubt not but the Prayers were much after the same sort had they come out in print and if my Notes deceive me not what you preach now is not much better but I will not say any thing except what I have under your hands But this needs not be prosecuted directly any further Pr. What of all this These be personal failings I don't know how we are come insensibly to talk of things that are meerly practical whereas we was to speak of Doctrinal points I 'll give you but two or three instances more of the wide difference that is betwixt us and then let all the world be judge how impertinent you have been in charging Popery upon us And first you make outward splendor and prosperity to be a mark of the true Church whereas we teach according to Divine and Humane Histories that the Church hath her wanes as well as her fulness that sometimes she is fain to flee into the wilderness and that her Glory may be eclipsed without she doth cease to be the true and only Spouse of Christ Pa. Well I hope you love us never the worse for that agreement as you see is betwixt us in practical points for those be the most important But as for what you mentioned last I must confess that after the Kings and the Churches return to their right you taught E. Calamy 1662. p. 10. 14 That the Ark of God was in great danger and very near to be lost gray hairs saith Mr. Calamy are upon the Gospel I say not that the Gospel is dying but that it hath gray hairs I dare challenge any Scholar to shew me an example of any Nation that hath enjoyed the Gospel for an hundred years together now that gray hairs is to an hundred years is no wonder Well gray hairs are here and there and yet no man lays it to heart But then 't is to be observed that your Principles and Doctrines do change according to your condition Th. Good Ph. Nye Sy. Symp. Jer. Bur. W. Bridge p. 10. according as five of your Brethren told us in their Apology to the Parliament This principle we carried along with us not to make our present judgment and practice a binding Law to our selves for the future For in the days of your Power you then followed God and Providence every prosperous success of yours was a mark that yours was Gods Cause and you his beloved ones Behold God in the Mount cries Mr. Vicars at every advantage you had over the Kings party in his Jehovah-Jireh yea and your prosperity was a mark that you were destroying Antichrist Tho. Palmer in that Sermon 1644. dedicated to the Earl of Essex Epist Dedicat hath these brave expressions God hath put you in his own place God hath grac'd you with his own Name Lord of Hosts General of Armies God hath committed to your care what is most precious to himself precious Gospel precious Ordinances a precious Parliament a precious people God hath called forth your Excellency as a choice Worthy to be his General and the Champion of Jesus Christ to fight the great and last battel with Antichrist in this your native Kingdom So Mr. Caryl in a Thanksgiving Sermon for a Victory of yours Jos Caryl 1644. Divine Providence is a leading Cloud to this day it is ill to out-run Providence and it is as bad not to follow it Many things that
I have said before will clear it enough that you made your good success and prosperity an argument of your being Gods Church and people and I shall say more to it anon I only add now that as it is observ'd that where Religion hath been loosest there Fortune hath been most worshipped so when you had broken all natural and religious bonds you made use of the prosperous events of your enterprizes to justifie the lawfulness of them Pr. Well I see you 'll make hard shift but you 'll have something to say But can you find that we attribute to the Sacraments the vertue of working by their own efficacy the grace they signifie which you call opus operatum don 't we rather teach that nothing but Gods Grace can work any good in us and that outward means are useless without it Pa. Yes I do suppose the Sacraments are of no great account amongst you whatever is not of your own appointment is of little use or profitableness though ordained by the first Rulers of the Christian Church or by Christ himself But I could tell you of two or three things of your own devising of as great force and efficacy as any of our Sacraments that is your Covenant your powerful Preaching and your extemporary Prayers of the first I have spoken enough already how you made it a most precious and soul-saving Ordinance and equalled it at least to the Covenants God hath been pleased to make with Mankind wherefore it was to be taken standing uncovered and one hand bare and lifted up which is more of honour and reverence than you afford to the blessed Sacrament of the Body and Bloud of Christ which you receive fitting upon your tails or to any other part of Divine Worship If any one will see more of it let him read Thomas Mokett's Sermons on that subject printed 1642. That your Preaching is likewise very powerful I have evinc'd before in that you call it the Gospel the Word of God and make it in a manner equal to Scripture as proceeding from the same Spirit as Mr. Marshal told the Parliament at a Thanksgiving-Sermon for some good success of yours S. Marshal 1643. p. 3. I should send you home presently and command all of you not to weep to day but to eat the fat and drink the sweet but that I have first some banquetting stuff for your souls such as God hath brought to my hand sure they might make a very soul-refreshing meal on what God himself had prepared Mr. Palmer also pag. 27. How few come prepared to the Ordinances your preaching and Praying Who is it that considers the weightiness of the business he is about that he is now about a soul-saving or a soul-destroying work And accordingly in your Catechising your Converts if they be aged the grand question is When and at what time they were converted for your Preaching works Conversion even as Strong-drink works Madness When you have taught malicious or ignorant people to rail at the Church and to hate it and those that side with it then the powerful Ordinance of Preaching hath done the feat and the man is converted even as the weak-brain fellow that hath lost his reason by too much drinking As for your Praying being it is by the Spirit no wonder if it works strangely Mr. Vavasor Powel a holy man The History of his Life 1671. p. 16. and well worth to be credited though somewhat more Fanatick than you for having a most authentick Testimony and Approbation of fourteen of the chiefest Divines in the Assembly did by his Prayers cure one Mrs. p 18. Watkins of the Parish of Laningg in the County of Brecknock who for two years together had kept her bed and one Elizabeth Morris of New Radnorth who was troubled with the Falling-sickness and Convulsion-Fits and did once in a wet Harvest stop a most fierce rain p. 19. in seeking the Lord and begging for fair weather This will not seem strange if we consider what one of you said That God had kindled the fervent fire of Supplication in your hearts Jehovah-Jireh p. 31. Oh how did the Lord-before and ever since this Parliament began stir up and inflame the fire of supplicating faith or faithful supplication and fervent zeal in private humiliation to seek the Lord in the face of Christ for mercy and reconcilement to our poor Land And then how could that fire that came from the Lord do less than consume and devour every thing that stood in its way As Dr. Owen said to the House of Commons Joh. Owen 1659. p. 14. The Adversaries openly confest That there was nothing left for them to overcome or to overcome them but the Prayers of the Fanatick Crew And as Mr. Coleman said to the same Auditory We prayed at Nazeby 1645. p. â—â— 17 they plotted see what end the Lord hath made come and behold the works of the Lord. And at Langport and Bridgewater they could not stand for God was against them We prayed we fought Th. Good 1645. p. 42. we conquered certainly the power of Prayers is destructive And Mr. Goodwin God hath given to those his Saints the Rebels a Commission to set up and pull down by their Prayers and Intercessions Whence by the way might be gathered that you have some kindness for us being you pull'd none down but the Church of England But possibly the efficacy of your Prayers did not so much as the reach of your Piques and Muskets However you see here is opus operatum with a vengeance all the difference is that our Sacraments are of Christs Institution and work Grace only whereas your powerful Ordinances are of your own devising and besides Grace can work destruction Pr. And can you find this one thing more about the Sacraments that we take the Cup away from the people as is the order of your Church positively against an express Command of Christ who said Drink ye all of this Sure you won't say we are guilty of dispensing with such an express Injunction of Christ as you do in this case Pa. No you never took the blessed Cup from the people but you went very near to take away from them the sacred Bread and all You know how seldom and in how few places that holy Sacrament was administred in your reforming times and you know how little regarded still by many of your party since you could preach and pray by the Spirit And yet we are in good hopes that you 'll comply with us in this too for that in another case you can dispense with as absolute a command of Christ that is concerning the Lords Prayer of which he commanded When you pray say Our Father c. Luk. 11.2 But your wisdom hath found it out that 't was enough to say the sense of that Prayer without repeating the very words and then if you should use it the people might be brought to believe that a set Form