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A17036 An ansvvere to Master Cartvvright his letter for ioyning with the English Churches: whereunto the true copie of his sayde letter is annexed. Browne, Robert, ca. 1550-1633.; Cartwright, Thomas, 1535-1603.; Harrison, Robert, d. 1585?, attributed name. 1585 (1585) STC 3909; ESTC S109433 77,571 102

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his eyes he may well perceiue thē not only to be vngodly but altogether childish vnlearned Nowe we come to answere other matters which fall out of the former proofes As that he saith the Scribes were altogether deceiued in the Messiah He might rather saye they were ignorant in some mysteries of the Messiah then all together deceiued And so Paul saith of them That had they knowen they woulde not haue crucified the Lorde of gloríe And Peter also saith That the people did it of ignorance as also did their gouernours Yea the Apostles them selues were a long time ignorant in some mysteries of the Messiah And Christ testifieth that many Prophetes and righteous men desired to see and heare those thinges which the Apostles sawe and heard but did not see nor heare them Yea saith Peter The Angels desire to beholde these thing concerning the sussering and glorye of Christ And therefore Paul calleth this a great mysterie that God sho●ld be manifested in the flesh iustified in the Spirite seene of Angels preached vnto the Gentiles beleeued on in the worlde and receiued vp in glorie The Scribes and Pharises knewe that the Messiah shoulde come that he was the holy one annointed of God as appeareth by their answere to Christ. The woman of Samaria knewe that hee shoulde be the annointed Prophet and tell them all things All the Priestes and Scribes knewe that he was borne King of the Iewes that he was the gouernour and high Shephearde of Israel that shoulde feede the people They knewe the prophecies that were of him that are written in Daniel in Micah in Isaiah in Ieremie and the rest Both they and the people coulde readily rehearse such prophecies at their fingers ende as where he shoulde be borne whose sonne he was what was his office what great workes he shoulde doe what saluation he shoulde worke to his people what sufferinges he should endure and what shoulde be his glorie But Master Cartwright sayeth They knewe not that Iesus was the sonne of God neither howe the Godhead and manhoode shoulde bee together as in one I answere that no more did the Apostles for a tyme neyther can any man search this mysterie to the deapth For Thomas and Philippe knewe not as we may reade in Iohn How Christ shoulde ascende into heauen to his father and come againe that the Father shoulde be in the sonue and the sonne in the Father Peter also and the rest were ignorant in such mysteries as appeareth in other places Yea they dreamed of a worldly kingdome and a worldly deliuerauce which shoulde be by Christ as is manifest in the Actes and in Luke Wherefore though they beleeued not that that Iesus which was then come in the flesh was the Sonne of God yet they beleeued and knewe the prophecies Namely that he was to be called Immanuel that is God with vs. Againe they knewe another prophecie of Isaiah That he shoulde be called by Name Wonderfull Counseller ●he mightie God c. that he sho●lde sit vpon the throne of Dauid and vpon his kingdome and his gouernement shoulde haue none ende They knewe of whome that prophecie was giuen in the fourescore and nynthe Psalme Hee shall crye vnto me thou art my Father my God and the ro●ke of my saluation also I will make him my first borne higher then the Kinges of the earth Therefore they coulde not bee ignorant that the Christ was the Sonne of God They knewe also that they were to trust in the Sonne as it is written Thou art my Sonne this daye haue I begotten thee K●sse the Sonne least he be angrie and ye perishe in the way when his wrath shall suddenly burne Blessed are all that trust in him So they well knewe that as hys wrath was destructiō so to trust in him was blessing and salutiō sTherefore it is not truely sayd that they were altogether deceiued in the Messiah Rather it is true that they were ignorant but in these two poyntes First howe that particular man being so poore despised and afflicted shoulde be the Messiah and secondly howe he being man shoulde be God also and come downe from heauen to be Manna for the people So then so long as they helde the generall fayth and beleefe concerning the Messiah and were ignorant whether that particular man was the Messias I say this ignoraunce for the time was no open ouerthrowe of any grounde of Religion For the Apostles were commaunded not to preache Christ particularly to bee the Messiah till after his resurrection And the fayth of the holye Fathers before time suffised to saluation though particularly they knewe not Christ neither receiued the promises as sayeth the text But sawe them a farre off and beleeued them and receiued them thankefully Whereas the wordes are that they receiued not the promises and yet receiued them thankefully it is meant that they receiued not the particular perfourmance of those promises in Christ but onely the bare promises that were afterwarde to be fulfilled In this fayth they dyed sayeth the text and yet no doubte they were saued Therefore it was not this particular ignorance that condemned the Pharisees but their frowarde refusing of a further knowledge If Ma-ster Cartwright say that they being so frowarde yet the faithfull did ioyne with them it is manifest to the contrary For the holy Ghost commaunded them to saue them selues from that frowarde generation and so they did For they ioyned with the faithfull onely and of the other sorte sayeth the text meaning them which beleeued not durst no man ioyne him selfe to them And the man whome the Pharisees did cast out or excommunicate chr●st tooke him vnto him as his disciple Whereby it is manifest that Christ both despised and condemned all communion in the Church with such of them as were persecuters Wheseas Master Cartwright sayeth that the Scribes and Pharises taught iustification by workes he hath graunted before that preaching false doctrine they were not to bee heard and therefore the dumbe ministers being no preachers at all are not to bee heard But if they taught that doctrine yet they taught but a true doctrine except they taught it as our Papistes doe at tthis day For the Scripture sayeth That the man that shall doe the workes of the lawe shall liue in them or haue life by them So then hee that can keepe the Lawe without breach of the lawe shall be iustified by the Lawe But Master Cartwright can not prooue that it was a common doctrine among the Pharisees that any man coulde keepe the Lawe without breach thereof Yea there is proofe to the contrary For the chiefe Priest did once euery yeere offer a sinne offering to make an atonement for him selfe for his house and for all the people Likewise were sundry other offeringes and sacrifices obserued
those that turne from iniquitie in Iacob As againe it is written Walke before me and be thou vpright and I will make my couenant betweene me and thee As who say one condition and part of the couenant is our vpright and good profession So likewise in Ieremie and Exodus the promise of obedience in the people is set downe as one part of the couenant Obey my voyce and doe according to all these thinges which I commande you so shall you be my people and I will be your god or else cursed be the man that obeyeth not the wordes of this couenant For on this condition will the Lorde receiue vs as Paul reasoneth if we come out from among the wicked and separate our selues Then will I be a Father vnto you and ye shall be my sonnes and daughters saith the Lorde Almightie Thus shoulde Master Cartwright haue conferred place with place and haue knowen that the worde is no couenant where the practise thereof is reiected and troden vnder foote neither can men say they haue the couenant of the spirite when open and grosse wickednesse so reigneth in them that there is no power of the spirite to redresse it but it remaineth incurable And so Paul reasoneth that as many as are led by the spirit of god they are the sonnes of god but he sheweth that they are in the state of condemnation and not in Christ Iesus if they walke after the flesh and not after the spirite For there is not the couenant of the spirite where we are not turned from iniquitie as Isaiah him selfe witnesseth and let Zecharie interprete Isaiah whose sheweth what spirite God will powre vpon his house and people namely The spirit of grace and compassion vnto repentance and mourning for their sinnes Likewise Ezechiel doeth giue the proofe and tryall of that newe spirit and newe heart which God woulde put in his people namely this That they should walke in his statutes and keepe his iudgements and execute them and so doing they shall be his people and he woulde be their god Wherefore let not Master Cartwright account so much of the word in their mouthes except as it is written in Deut. it be in their mouthes and in their heartes for to doe it Otherwise Christ wil pronounce of them that in vaine they worship the Lord and so are they false worshippers for god is neere in their mouthes and farre from their reignes They drawe neere vnto god with their mouthes and honour him with their lippes but their heart is far off from him Surely such men are not those burning lampes neither the goldē candlesticks he speaketh of but rather as those that will seeke me daily saith the Lord euen as a nation that did righteously and had not forsaken the statutes of their god they aske of me ordinances of iustice they will drawe neere vnto me Yet in the next chapter the Lord witnesseth that there was a great separation betwene him and them so that he was to make a newe couenant with them and they were to turne from their former iniquities or else they could not be his people and Church And therefore when Christ appointeth the Apostles to plant churches throughout the world he appointeth them not to talke of and professe the word in their mouthes onely but he giueth in charge these three things as being the chiefe marks of a planted Church namely preaching the word ministration of the sacramēts reformation of life which is the chiefest thing of all to set forth his Church kingdom for he commādeth to preach and baptize because preaching baptizing is nothing without amendmēt of life he addeth these words teaching thē to obserue do all things whatsoeuer I haue cōmanded you Therfore as appeareth in the acts of the Apostles was neither the church nor the couenāts of the Church established among any but where their good godly profession was shewed and the contrary refused I know M. C. will gainsay that there must needes be hypocrites in euery church sometimes also open breach of gods commandements It is true indeede But yet if any make an open and grosse breach then Paul hath written vnto vs that we company not together with such For if any saith he that is called a brother be a fornicator or couetous or an idolater or a railor or a drunkard or an extortioner c. with such a one eate not The aduersaries replie to this that in deede to eat common bread with such or to partake with them in the feastes of charitie was forbidden which distinction and shift they alleadge out of Caluin But who dare say that the godly wife may not eate cōmon bread with her excōmunicate husband or the godly children with their wicked parents or seruants with their masters For otherwise al seruice ministery communiō in a common wealth should be ouerthrowen And so as Paul reasoneth the godly shuld not be able to liue in the world Who also dare say that when the church held their feasts of charitie they might forbid wicked persons to partake with them in the feastes and yet suffer them to partake in the Lordes-table Nay they kept their feastes and the Lordes Supper together And hereupon Paul gaue this distinction that they should suffer none but bre●hrē to ioyne with them in the holy feastes or in the assemblyes which were for ministration of the Lordes Supper but if we will not eate and drinke with sinners in the worlde we must goe out of the worlde Wherefore there is an eating with wretches in the worlde or in worldly meetings and feastings which is forbidden in the Church meetings As if a brother being separate and fallen away should in an Inne or vitailing house sit downe at the table to eate after we and others were set it were vnlawfull to rise from the table because of him yea it were both against common charitie and humanitie and also against the peace communion of a common wealth But of this matter it followeth to speake afterwardes We haste one to others proofes An other proofe is as though it were graunted him that where a preaching minister is there is a Church nay we know that assemblyes of papistes haue preaching ministers and yet are not the church of God And though they be Protestants which haue a Preacher ouer them yet if he for his wickednesse cease to be a brother and they also for their wickednesse be no brethren the preaching Minister can not cause them to bee a Church of God This is manifest before and shall partly also afterwarde be spoken of wherefore I let it passe As for that he saith of some knowledge receiued by a dumbe ministerie and of faith receiued by some further Ministerie it is much like the same tryfling proofe he vsed before and is answered alreadie For we said that the inward faith will not iustifie
was the leprous man commanded to communicate in that manner For they were of the brethren as is plaine in the text with whome Paul did contribute in that matter of purifying And it is written that a great companie of the Priestes were obedient to the faith And therefore no doubt of it the Apostles made choise of the priestes as they did of those foure brethren with whome Paul did contribute other priests besides the high priest might accomplish the common seruice of the sacrifices Hebrewes 9. If they say that the sacrifices and oblations were sanctified in the name of the wicked hie priests we denie it For the beleeuers did know that Christ the high Priest was come alreadie and therefore in his name they tooke the sacrifices to be sanctified and not in the name of the other priestes Moreouer it is manifest that they did not communicate neither offer any offering but rather that they shoulde haue done it and were letted by the vproare before the dayes of purifying were ended And it seemeth that Paul knewe by the spirite and by the prophecies that went on them that such an vproare should fall out and therefore also knewe that the offering shoulde be letted If here againe they obiect that the sacrifices them selues were fulfilled in Christ and also abrogate and yet for the churches sake were tolerated I aske them what they would gather hereby or what vantage they would take against vs Forsooth they would iustifie thereby a tollerating of our horrible abuses and disorders But how cā they by those things which God commandeth warrant those things which God neuer cōmanded Againe they are fowly deceiued as touching the ceremonial law First because they thinke the accomplishing or fulfilling of the ceremoniall law to be a present and vtter abolishing thereof without a certaine testimonie and preaching to the people that it is abolished Secondly for that they make no difference betweene the law disanulled and the forbidding thereof being disanulled also betweene the acte and manner of abrogating the law the law already abrogated Also because they will haue the new lawe stand in force before it can be duely proclaimed and receiued in steade of the old And so to the Hebrewes it is written that the old testament being disanulled is ready to vanish away wherby it is ment that it could not at once be taken away It was accomplished fulfilled in Christ yea it was also abolished in Christ as the head yet by degrees and measure it was abolished and taken from the body wherefore it was vanishing and yet not vtterly vanished It stoode in some force because the new testamēt was not yet sufficiently proclaimed and preached to the people And therefore it is sayde To day if ye will heare his voyce By these wordes To day he appointed a certain time saith the Apostle so he sheweth that time to be appointed for receiuing the further better promises also a better testamēt a better professiō thē was the former So that we see it was lawful for the Iewes to hold stil their ceremonies sacrifices till they might surely know the first commādement to be disanulled because of the weakenes thereof For what faithful subiect wil forsake the old lawes of his prince till he be assured that newe lawes are proclaimed which abrogate the olde Indeede the newe Testament or new Lawe tooke place and was established at the death of Christ as the Apostle prooueth yet by degrees it tooke place in the Churches as Christ also teacheth where hee sayeth And I if I were lift vp from the earth will drawe all men vnto mee meaning that at his death hee established a newe Lawe and Testament by which men should bee drawen vnto him not that they were drawen at once in a moment and all together For the vayle or couering of the. olde Testament was first to bee taken away By this vayle no doubte Paul meaneth the ignorance of the Iewes whereby they did cleaue so much to the old law ceremonies And therefore the Lord sayth in another place that he will destroye in this mountaine the couering that couereth all people and the vayle that is spredde vpon all nations For the Temple that stoode on the mountaine with the ordinances thereof was as a vayle to blynde the heartes of the Iewes which dwelt among all nations And therefore Christ did foreshewe the destruction of the Temple which came to passe about fourtie yeeres after A great parte of which tyme it was still permitted to the Iewes to holde the olde Ceremonies If they obiect that the vayle of blindenesse was sinne and therefore to holde the ceremonies was sinne I aunswere that it was no vayle of blindnesse to those that were willing ready and forwarde to receiue the Newe Lawe and Testament when it was offered If againe they obiect that their willingnesse and forwardnesse appeared not seeing the Gentiles so quickely reiected the olde lawe and they in so long time reiected it not wee aunswere that all the beleeuing Iewes did straightway reiect it in part though not wholly but some of them also reiected it wholy euen in shorte time yet they were but fewe and no maruaile For the Gentiles had neuer receiued the olde lawe and therefore might the more readily imbrace the ●●we but the Iewes were alwaye zealous of the olde Lawe and therefore coulde not so suddenly be reclaimed from their former zeale Further that distinction or difference betwixt the acte and maner of doing any thing and the deede alreadie done appeareth by that place in the Hebrewes where it is said thou hast put all thinges vnder his feete in which wordes the acte done is put for the doing thereof For yet we see not saieth the Authour all thinges subdued vnto him but the worke was in haude as it were it was doing and prospered till all thinges shoulde be subdued Euen so we may say that the olde lawe was abolished or taken away at the death of Christ that is it was in abolishing or it was readie to vanish away and to be vtterly abolished yea in Christ the head it was abolished and in the members also it was readie to be abolished And therefore Paul giueth this distinction that some brethren are weake in faith and are not yet perswaded in their mindes that the ceremoniall lawe is abolished others haue knowledge Now Paul reasoneth that in such matters concerning the obseruation of such ceremonies euery mans faith or knowledge must bee his rule For to him that iudgeth any thing vncleane to him it is vncleane Therefore he that doeth any thing in suche matters against his knowledge or conscience he sinneth For whatsoeuer is not of faith or knowledge is sinne saieth Paul So then our answere is true that the ceremonies of the olde lawe were not vtterly to be remoued but by faith and knowledge of the full abrogation