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spirit_n	know_v	scripture_n	truth_n	7,532	5	5.8743	4	false

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A92173	A most grave, and modest confutation of the errors of the sect, commonly called Brownists, or: Seperatists. Agreed upon long since by the joynt consent of sundry, godly, and learned ministers of this kingdome, then standing out and suffering in the cause of inconformity; and now published in a time of need, for the good of Gods Church, and the better setling of mens unstable mindes in the truth against, the subtile insinuations, and plausible pretences of that pernicious evill. Published by W. Rathband, minister of the Gospell.	Rathband, William, d. 1695.	1644 (1644)	Wing R299; Wing M2893; Thomason E31_11; ESTC R209828	84,262	92

Civill estate and of every particular person in both all things being innovated in both according to the Iusts and pleasures of men the Law and Word of God being quite rejected and cast aside And in the 212. page of their refutation of Master Gifford They have these words We hold that you have poysoned all the fountaines of sincere doctrine and perverted the whole Testament and turned away the practise thereof by your damnable false expositions Yea that you teach not one point sincerely And in the 162. page of this discovery They are made socontrary one to another as it is an impossible thing to finde two of them in one minde yea or any one of them constant in that he affirmeth they know not the Doctrine even of the beginning of Christ Adde hereto Henry Barrowes words 12 and 23. pages of their collections of Letters and conference We will not give any answer to these speeches but onely desire the Christian Reader to consider whether ever Gods Spirit taught any to write so slanderously not onely against a whole Nation the conversion whereof they pretend to seeke but against the blessed Truth of God And how unlikely it is that they should bee in the right way whose chiefe leaders were guided by such a spirit That they should be the Lords building whose first founders and Master builders had either so small skill or so bad a Conscience Doe we not hold all the same books of Canonicall Scriptures which they themselves doe Doe wee not reject out of the Canon all which themselves account Apochryphall Have they any translation of holy Scripture besides ours Doe they themselves beleeve or teach otherwise in the Articles of the holy Trinity of justification of predestination then wee doe Hath every member of their Assemblies recovered that spirit of truth whereby they are led into all truth as Henry Barrow page 107. of his discovery affirmeth And is there not any one amongst us that hath not quite rejected the whole Word of God Not any one that knoweth the doctrine even of the beginning of Christ We know no better way to convince them in this then by appealing unto their Consciences which we are sure will take our parts against them Now this reason also is strong to prove us a true Church for although the bare letter of the Scripture may be found amongst the Jewes and Papists and other Heretickes Which none ran doe but the true Church Yet was there never any people that held and maintained the true sence of the Scripture in all points fundamentall but only the Church of God whereunto onely this title belongeth to bee the pillar and ground of truth 1 Tun. 3.15 A people may bee a true Church though they hnow not nor hold every truth contained in the Scriptures wherein wee desire the Reader to consider that a people may be the true Church though they know not nor hold not every truth contained in the holy Scriptures but contrarily hold many errours repugnant to the Scriptures Yet hath Henry Barrow affirmed in the 167. page of his discovery That to the people of God and every one of them God hath given his holy sanctifying spirit to open unto them and leade them unto all truth Whereby it is most evident that he would have none to be accounted the people and Church of God who either know not or practise not every truth contained in the holy Scriptures In which opinion see I pray you how grosse and dangerous errors are contained First That to every inseriour member in the Church there is as much reveiled as to the Pastors and chiefe members whereas the Apostle affirmeth Romans 12.3 Ephes 4 16. eol 2.19 that the Holy Ghost is given to every member of the body of Christ not equally but proportionably as the place which it occupieth in the bodie doth require Secondly That the promise mentioned Iohn 16.13 Should be made to every member of the Church which in the last words of the verse appeareth plainely to be particular to the Apostles Thirdly That the Church cannot erre and so neither were the Corinthians rightly called the Church of God when they judged corruptly of fornication and of the Resurrection Neither they of Pergamus when the Doctrine of Balaam was maintained among them Neither were Paul and the rest of the Apostles true Members of the Church who though in the exercises of their Apostolicall function they could not erre yet knew but in part and in many things were subject to error (a) 1 Cor. 13 9. Another strange opinion is amongst them maintained in the 156,157 of the discovery viz. That every truth contained in the Scripture is fundamentall For although we affirme not as he thereslandereth us That some part of Scripture is more holy more authenticall or more true then other Note Yet doubt we not to say that some parts are of more use and more necessary for men to know then othersome Else why doth the Holy Ghost oft give speciall commendation to some parts more than to other 1 Tim 4.11 Titus 3.8 Make 4 3● why doth he as it were make Proclamation and solemne oyesses before some and not before other Why doth hee use a speciall art in some parts rather than in other And although wee doe not hold as they falsly charge us in the forenamed page of their discovery That some parts of holy Scripture are of small moment superficiall needlesse and of no necessitie such as may be altered and violated without any prejudice or danger at all to the soule and much lesse that a man that hath obstinately continued in the transgression of some parts and openly taught the same unto others may be undoubtedly saved though he die without Repentance but on the contrary wee beleeve and teach that there is no part of holy Scripture which every Christian is not necessarily bound to seeke and desire the knowledge of so farre forth as in him lieth yet dare wee not call every truth fundamentall that is such as if it be not obeyed and known the whole Religion and faith of the Church must needs fall to the ground For we doe make no question but that the thiefe that was crucified and the Eunuch even then when he was baptized by Philip were in the state of salvation though they could not choose but bee ignorant of many truths in Religion The only fundamentall truth in Religion is this That Jesus Christ the Sonne of God who tooke our nature of the Virgin Mary is our only and all-sufficient Saviour For first they that receive this truth are the people of God and in the state of salvation they that receive it not cannot possibly bee saved (a) Mat. 16.17 104.2 Col. 3.17 Iohn 20.31 Ephos 2.20 Secondly There is no other point of Christian Religion necessary otherwise then as it tendeth necess rily to the bringing us unto or confirming us in the assurance of this one truth (b) Heb. 13.8

1 Cor. 2.2 Eph. s 2.19 22. and therefore when the Apostle saith that the Church is built upon the foundation of the Prophets and Apostles his meaning is not to call every thing contained in their writings the foundation of the Church But that this foundation wee have spoken of is there to be found and hath witnesses from thence and that all the writings and doctrines of the Apostles and Prophets doe bend unto stay and rest upon this one truth as the walls in the building upon the chiefe corner stone Lastly Arg. 4. All reformed Churches give the Testimony to us All the knowne Churches in the world acknowledge our Church for their Sister and give unto us the right hand of fellow-ship This Henry Barrow and Iohn Greene-wood denie in their 14. page of their refutation but they name not any one Church that maketh question of us whether wee were the true Church or no never yet was there any reformed Church made that question They are well acquainted with our Church by the report of them that have travelled from bence and sundry other wayes with our doctrine and Lyturgie our wants and corruptions every one Neither doe they only forbeare to shew their dislike to us or are content to preserve society with us which happily through humane infirmitie they might doe upon sinister respects though they approved not of us in judgment but they doe also hold and teach that what people soever hath so much as we is the true Church though the wants and corruptions are as great as ours are Now when we alledge for our selves the testimonies of the Churches Which strongly argueth that we are the true Church we doe not thereby as these men fondly conclude in the 14. page of their refutation make the word of men the foundation of our Church Nor doe we use these as our only and chiefe defence whereby we seeke to approve our selves either unto the Lord or to the Consciences of his people but such an argument wee take this to bee as in his due place hath much force in it and as God Himselfe hath sanctified for a principall help in deciding of controversies in this kinde the Apostles use to alleadge it as a matter of comfort to them whom they write unto that the Churches of Christ salute them (a) Rom. 16.16 1 Pet. 5 13. that they were famous and had the good report of the Churches (b) Rom. 16.19 2 Cor. 8 18 19 23.24 Galah 1.2 Saint Paul though hee received not his calling either from men or by men c nor was any whit inferior to the chiefe Apostles (d) 2 Cor. 12.11 yet doth he alleadge for the credit of his ministery that the chiefest Apostles approved him and gave to him the right hand of fellowship (e) Gal. 2.9 Yea (f) Gal. 2.2 he sought also their approbation and feared that without it he should have runne in vaine And which is yet more he seeketh to win commendation and credit even to those which he by his Apostolicall authoritie might have established by the example and judgment of other churches If those Churches which were planted by the Apostles themseltes might take comfort in the good opinion that other Churches had of them May not we much more If the Ministery of Paul and orders he prescribed to the Church received further credit by the approbation of the Churches Then their approbations give some credit to the ministerie and orders of the Church now The doctrine and word of God though to speake properly it received authoritie onely from it selfe and the Spirit of God yet hath it ever beene the rather received by men for the testimony the Church hath given unto it So our Saviour Christ saith That Wisdome is justified of her Children Matth. 11.19 Iohn 5.34 and although he affirmeth that he received not the record of men Yet in respect of the salvation and good it men he judgeth it necessary John 1.7 8 5 33 34. that Iohn Baptist should give Testimony unto him Now if this one thing furthered the damnation of the unbelieving Iewes that they would not heare nor receive Christ though testimony were given of him by one whom they knew to be sent of God shall not this further the condemnation of these men that they refuse to heare and receive us though we be commended unto them by the testimony of so many Churches of God Some cases there bee wherein wee are commanded to seeke for the judgment of the Churches and to account it the judgment of God else why did the Church at Antioch in a question that could not be debated at home seeke to the Church at Jerusalem for helpe especially seeing they had two such excellent men with them as Paul and Barnabas whose judgments they might safely have trusted unto (d) Acts 15.2 saith our Saviour that whatsoever they binde on earth shall be bound also in heaven (e) Matth. 18 18. and saith he not also to Churches of other Nations Shall he be accounted as an heathen or a Publican that will not regard the judgment and censure of the particular Congregation whereof hee is a member (f) Matth 18.17 and shall they not be much more accounted so that despise the judgment of all the Churches Must the spirits of the Prophets be subject to the Prophets amongst whom we live (g) 1 Cor. 14.32 and must not both people and Prophets be subject to all the Prophets and Churches in the world The abilitie to trie and discerne the spirits and doctrines of such teachers as arise in the Church is such a gift as the true Church never wanted (h) 1 Ioh. 4.1 Revel 2.2 neither could it bee the pillar and ground of truth (i) 1 Tim 3.15 if it should be ignorant of a truth so necessary to the salvation of men as this is viz. What people is accounted to be the true Church of God if God hath given his Church power to judge and pronounce a particular man that he is in the state of salvation and that so infallibly that he hath promised to ratifie in heaven the judgment which the Church shall in this case give upon earth (k) Matth. 18 18. may it not bee said that hee hath much more made the Church able to discerne and pronounce of a Congregation or people that is a true visible Church which is a matter of no such difficultie as the other So that to conclude though those men make so light of the judgment and testimony of other Churches 1 Cor. 14 36. as if the Word of God had come out from them onely or as if themselves were able to judge of us better than all the godly learned besides Yet doe wee take much comfort and assurance from hence that we are the true Church of God Now it remaines that we answer such reasons as are objected against our Church bythem Objections answered THe first thing that they

Chron. 29.30 4. A prescript forme of words bath beene some times commanded to be used in extraordinary occasions Hosca 14 3● Ioel 2.13 but in them also which we finde to have bin used by the good servants of God in former times upon the like occasions to those that befall us now So Salomon useth in the Dedication of the Temple that very Psalme which David vowed to use at the bringing of the Arke to his house and in the bringing of the Tabernacle and holy Vessells into the House of God he useth the same words of another Psalme So Jehosaphat useth the same words of the same Psalme in that excellent thankesgiving which he maketh to God Hezekiah caused thanks to be given in the same words unto God as David and Asaph had used before Yea this manner of praying and praising in set and prescript formes of words even upon extraordinarie occasions we finde directly commanded fundry times So the Prophets expresly set forth what words should bee used among the people And which is yet more we finde a set and prescript form of words to be used in extraordinary occasions appointed long before that those occasions fell out So we reade of a forme of thanksgiving Fourthly it hath sometimes beene prescribed long before the occasions fell out Esa 12.3 4. 1 King 8.47 Daniel 9.5 Ier. 33.11 Ezra 3.11 appointed to be used by the Church at Christs comming and Salomon prescribeth a form of confession to be used by the Church in captivitie which forme Daniel in the name of the Church used So Ieremie appointeth the 136. Psalme to be used by the people for a forme of thanksgiving after their returne from captivitie which was also used accordingly by then whereupon this will follow that unlesse they can take exception to the matter of our prayers which shall afterwards be considered of they may not blame us for the stinted and prescript forme of prayers we use and that if we want fervencie of spirit in our prayers That also which they object against our Catechismes is of no force for first it is lawfull to collect out of the word and to teach in order the principles of Religion the fault is to be imputed to the corruption of our owne hearts and not to the prescript formes we use Concerning the Catechismes used in our Church we answer first It is evident by the Scripture that the Church hath for the instruction of the people not only taught and deliverd the holy Scriptures themselves and tied themselves in their teaching to the very words and frame thereof but hath also ever had and used to teach abridgments summes of their principles of Religion collected out of the Scriptures and this wee thinke will be evident to such as in the feare of God and desire to know the truth shall well weigh and consider these places t Rom. 2 20. 6 17. 2 Tim. 1.13 Heb. 5.12.13 14 6 1 2 Secondly it is also lawfull to require of the hearers an account which is also thus taught And as the Scripture proveth this warrantable so reason it selfe and common experience teacheth that it is a great help in all knowledge to have short summes of that we would learne in our view and prospect represented to us and to have that in order taught that we would bee instructed in So is the Saylor holpen by his Card the Traveller by his Map and the most cunning workman by his patterne he draweth before be beginneth his worke Luke 2.46.47 Mat. 13.36 51 Mark 9.28.30 31. So he that teacheth children beginneth with the Letters and hee that buildeth an house with the foundation Secondly Thirdly the hearer may lawfully give account of the doctrine in the selfe same words wherin it was taught Fourth'y he may lawfully have copies of these principles in writing or print That wch they object against our forms viz that we conceive them not our selves but they are devised imposed by others is also of no moment for it is lawfull to use these formes not only that are in the word but such as men have devised Ref. pag. 204. It is also evident that in teaching these principles as well as in the other kinde of instructions Christ and his Holy Apostles have beene wont to require of their hearers that they should resound and give account of the principles of Religion thus taught in order as appeareth by the notation of the Greeke word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which is used in all these places Luke 14. Acts 18.25 1 Cor. 14.19 Galath 6.6 as also by the practise of the Jewish Church which our Saviour by his presence approved and by his owne practifie also and which following his example some of the Apostles did Thirdly If Ministers may as wee have proved in regard of the particular state of their people collect such abridgments and require the people to resound them then it cannot be unlawfull for the people to resound the doctrine in the selfe same words wherein it was taught Fourthly This being so it cannot but be lawfull and profitable for the people to have the Catechismes and sums delivered them in writing or in print that they may the better read and learne them Seeing we may have formes both of prayers and Catechismes we see not how this can condemne the formes which wee use viz. That in compiling and collecting them the invention and such other gifts of men are used seeing there is a liberty left to the Church to doe many things that tend onely to the setting forth of Gods Ordinances as themselves confesse and in the preaching of the Word and in those prayers which they call conceived praiesr the wit memory judgment and such other humane gifts are lawfully and necessarily used especially considering that the peoples understanding and memory may bee the better helped by that they are well acquainted with them by the other If we may use lawfully as we see we may even such formes as were collected by men Secondlie It is lawfull for Ministers to use such formes as have beene devised by men of better gifts then themselves and that these formes doe not any way staine or prejudice the fevencie of the spirit then doubt we not but these forms that have beene set downe by men of better gifts may as lawfully bee used of them who throughly conceive the meaning and truth of them as those which the Minister deviseth himselfe If formes thus devised by men be found to be lawfull and profitable what sinne can it bee for the Governours of the Church to command that such formes bee used Thirdlie It is lawfull to use such good formes as are imposed by authoritie or for us that are perswaded of the lawfulnesse of them being imposed unlesse they will say that therefore it is unlawfull for us to heare the word receive the Sacraments beleeve the Trinitie and all other Articles of the faith because wee are commanded by the

Magistrates so to doe whereas indeed we ought the rather to doe good things that are agreeable unto the Word when wee know them to be also commanded by the Christian Magistrate Though we are perswaded by the former reason Yet we doe grant that in some cases conceived prayers are more fit then other to think that stinted formes are so farre from being simply unlawfull as in that in the ordinary and generall occasions of the whole Church they are many times more fit then those that are called conceived prayers Yet it is well knowne that our Law alloweth and our preachers also doe use prayers conceived which we in some cases doe judge more fit to stirre up and expresse the groanes and sighes of the spirit then those prayers doe wherein we tie our selves to prescript words But why doe wee seeke to justifie our prescript Lyturgie before these men who speake as scornefully and profanely of our conceived prayers as they can possibly doe of those which wee read For when Henry Barrow had derided and flouted those that use onely read prayers hee breaketh out into these speeches in the 37. page of his discovery that other smooth hypocrites yet as grosse Idolaters use this viz. the Lords prayer as a clause or supply to their long and prolix prayers conceived before whereby it should seeme that their hatred to us rather then to our corruptions is so great as that whatsoever wee doe will displease them Concerning Homilies this answer wee give The reasons they bring against us for Homilies is of no force That though wee thinke it is not simply unlawfull to reade in our Assemblies such Homilies as are for the matter sound and good yet in regard of the dangerous inconveniences that may come by using them by so many Ministers and Congregations in the Land doe utterly dislike all publike use of them as that we wonder that these men are not ashamed to use this as a reason of their separation from the whole Church But what if all this were granted that the use of our stinted prayers If to have a Drescript form of Lyturgie were Idolatrous yet might we be the true Church for all that Catechismes and Homilies were Idolatrous which yet wee have proved to be otherwise will it from thence follow that we are not that true Church Is this a greater corruption in the worship of God then the retaining of hie places against which there is so expresse a commandement a Deut. 12.2 1 King 11.8 9 1 King 15.14 2 King 15.4 2 King 18.4 2 King 13.6 or then the burning Incense to the Brazen Serpent b and yet it is evident that the one of these was retained in the dayes of Asa and Azariah Kings of Iudah and the other even till Hezekiahs Reigne in which time notwithstanding it is manifest there was a true Church in Judah The testimony of Scripture which they quote in the page 68. of the collection of Letters and Conferences and in the 144. page of their resutations against our prescript Lyturgie are such as either tend generally to the condemning of Idolatrie f Deut. 5.8 9. 1 Chro. 28.10 Revel 22 19. Prov. 30.5 6. Deut. 4.32 Revel 22.18 19 Matth. 15.9 Col. 2.20 23. or such as forbid us to add any thing to the Word of God To the first sort we answer that they have not yet proved our Lyturgie Idolatrie Secondly if they had yet cannot they by these testimonies conclude that therefore they that use it are not the true Church To the other sort of Testimonies this we say that we adde not our Lyturgie unto the Word of God nor make it of equall authoritie with it neither doe we use it to the same ends and purposes that we doe the Scripture Secondly Wee doe wonder with what judgment or Conscience they can blame us for adding to the word by our Lyturgie who will at no hand allow us to use as prayers any of the formes that are set down in the Scripture The reasons also against all formes of Lyturgie The reasons against all formes of Lyturgie are weake and set downe in the 43. page of the collection of slanderous Articles are fond and weake though they seeme to collect them from the Scriptures for wee have above proved that God may be worshipped spiritually and fervently even in that prayer wherein a set and prescript forme of words are used Secondly That this is no good reason the Apostles are not read to have used any set forme of prayer themselves or to have prescribed any to the Churches Ergo they did not use or prescribe any or Ergo the Church might not Thirdly Iohn 4.23 Rom. 8.26 1 Iohn 2.17 1 Cor. 3.11 12 We see not why they may not as strongly reason the spirit helpeth our infirmities and wee have received that anointing and therefore we need not nor may not use any outward helps for our consolation and instruction or for the subduing of our corruptions as this the spirit helps our infirmities c. and we have received that anointing Ergo we need not nor may not use any prescript formes of words as helps in our prayers OBJECT III. The third thing they object against the whole bodie of the Church Object The third Objection against the whole body of our Church is that we want Christs Discipline is this That we want that discipline and order which Christ in his Testament hath appointed for the government of the Church for neither have we say they the power to binde or to loose nor those officers by whom the censures of Christ should be exercised Yea saith Henry Barrow in the 160. page of his discoverie You have not any one thing order or administration according to his Testament And in the 188. page such places of Scripture as make expresse mention of Christs discipline as Rom. 12. 1 Cor. 15. and 12. 2 Cor. 2 Ephes 4. 2 Thes 3. and 1 Tim. 5.1 are not saith he suffered so much as to be read in the Church much lesse to be sincerely expounded from these premises see what a conclusion he in the 27. page of his discovery inferreth without the power saith hee and practise of the diligent watch of every Member but especially of the Elders the Word of God is made an Idoll the Sacraments sacriledge unto us and all things we do odious and abominable unto the Lord. To this third Objection this answer we give Answ The first part of Christs Discipline which is most subst intiall we have 1. For the works and duties which hee would have performed in the governmēt of his Church are all one in our assemblies Discipline not exercised rightly First whereas the discipline of Christ consisteth in two things viz. what works and duties Christ would have performed for the ordering and government of his Church and by what persons and Officers hee would have these duties exercised We affirme that for as much as all these

sufficiently manifested to the Church and that our Church hath beene sufficiently convinced of many grosse corruptions but that for the want of some parts of discipline our Church should be no Church or that for the corruptions amongst us our Ministers should be no true Ministers or our people no faithfull people which are the very fundamentall principles of their Schisme and almost the very matter of difference betwixt them and us In these points wee deny that either to this day they have sufficiently convinced us or that before the first time of their separation they had in any measure used meanes to convince us Secondly after they had convicted us in Judgement they should have by brotherly admonition and exhortation sought to perswade us unto the love and practise of the truth revealed and to the hatred and forsaking of the manifested corruptions (b) 2 Thes 3.14.15 Tit. 3.10 Heb. 10.15 which is evident they did not before their separation Thirdly the Scripture forbiddeth the Church to eject a private member till in all patience and long suffering his repentance hath been waited for and the fruit of the aforesaid meanes expected (c) 2 Thes 3.14.15 2 Tim. 2.24 25 and 2 Tim. 4.2 which evidently reproveth their hastie and sudden departure from us either before or suddenly after they had used the meanes abovesaid especially seeing that in all reason more long-sufferance should be vsed by such private members as they were toward a whole Church than by a whole Church towards private members Fourthly whereas they should have used all the meanes abovesaid in meeknesse humilitie and love mourning also for the hardnesse of our hearts whereby the meanes became frustrate unto us d Ephes 4.15 2 Tim. 2.25 Tit. 3.2 Heb. 10.24.25 It is evident that their zeale in dealing against us hath beene like the rash and undiscreet zeale spoken of and reproved in the sons of Zebedeus e Mar. 3.5 Luke 9.55 And hath favoured altogether of uncharitablenesse and not of love for as all they that once have declined to that Schisme are found to be exceedingly proud and disdainfull to wards all that are contrary minded yea even such as before they were infected with that leaven were patternes of all love modesty and humility unto others so will they not acknowledge nor reverence any of the most excellent graces that God hath given unto any of his servants amongst us nor so much respect them as the very Papists will doe no they professe greater detestation and despite to the most godly and most sincere men amongst us then they doe to such as are most notorious in profannesse and malice to the truth To which purpose also wee desire that the spirit whereby Henry Barrow was directed in writing his last bookes may be well examined Fiftly whereas by the equitie of the rule which our Saviour himselfe giveth and according to the practise of the Apostolike Church wee should have had our corruptions made knowne to some other Reformed Churches and by them we should have beene convinced and admonished before these our brethren could rightly judge us as heathens and publicanes we affirme that they as if the Word of God had come out from them or had come unto them onely have by their disorderly separation not onely despised and robbed us of our right but all other christian Churches in the world besides Sixtly they have not so much as protested the cause of their separation from us to the particular Congregations whereof before their departure they were accounted by others and did also acknowledge themselves to be members Seaventhly those of them which once exercised the places of the Ministrie amongst us and received for the same the reward due which they call Balaams wages have not before or since their departure made actuall restitution of that which was if their opinions be true most unjustly received nor yet shewed themselves willing so to doe to their abilitie which norwithhstanding by the law of God they are most strictly bound to doe The scond Article in their conclusion is this That the Assemblies which they goe and joyne themselves unto are such as the Word of God commandeth them to goe unto whereunto we give this answere That if they had followed the direction of Gods Word when they had left us for our coruptions and wants as they charge us with they should have joyned themselves to some other Reformed Churches which are pure from our corruptions and amongst whom the discipline of Christ is rightly established as we finde the faithfull Levites and people did in the dayes of Iiroboam and every wise hearted Christian will hold it to be a reason of great force against them that they have made separation not from us onely but from all other Reformed Churches in the world For there by they appeare to have beene of this judgement that till they arose there was not a true cōstituted visible Church in the whole world knowne unto them unto which they might have joyned themselves Secondly the Assemblies which they erected and joyned themselves unto if they be looked into with a Christian and indifferent eye shall well appeare to be much more deformed than many of those are which they have for saken for proofe whereof we desire the Readers to weigh well with the weights of the Sanctuary and to try by the touchstone of the Word certaine points of doctrine which they have both brewed and broached to the world in their printed Books Then secondly their practise and dispositions All their Paradoxes and absurd opinions we will not set downe but in some few we will give the Readers a taste of the rest In the 138. page of their discovery they affirme That such an Idolatrous shape cleaveth to every stone of our Materiall Charches as by no meanes can be severed from them while there is a stone left standing upon a stone so that neither they can be used to the worship of God nor we have any use of them seeing that they are execrable and devoted to destruction In the 167. page of the same booke they teach That to every Christian God hath given his boly sanctifying spirit to open unto them and to l●ade them in to all truth Much like unto this is that which they wright in the 161. page of their refutation That it is an execrable position to say that the Church and every member thereof is in some spirituall bondage to sinne Touching the Magistrates authority besides that by the whole tenour of their writings it appeareth that they hold the people may take in hand the publike Reformation of the Church and erect the whole discipline not only without but contrary to the Christian Magistrates liking and consent they doe also directly affirme page 218 and 219. of their discovery That God hath in the holy Scripture made most perfect and necessary Lawes both for the Church and Common-wealth and that he requireth of the King and Magistrase to see their