through Preaching openly he is not limitted yet no Preaching is truely effectual without him who is the chief Teacher For Priest It might have been answered by one of your oppinion 2. Paul your question is idle and vain for most men believe without a Preacher they shall believe the Light within teaching them Answ. If they cannot Preach except they be sent then who must send them and give them power for that work but Christ Secondly Neither do we so accuse Pauls question with being idle nor say that most men believe without a Preacher especially if they believe the Light within teaching them for that is Christs Light who is the true Teacher which brings to the substance of true Preaching and Teaching which proceeds from the Light within Priest The Scriptures Preached or the things contained in them is the ordinary way of begeting Faith Answ. The things contained in them seems a little to mend thy matter which things contained were before the Scriptures or Writings were and extend farther for some had and performed the things contained in the Law which had not the Law Viz. outward and many in this day can testify that the Spirit and Light within hath manifested within many things contained in Scripture before they read them outwardly there Priest The whole council of God Paul sheweth forth Act. 20.27 yet no other things then those which Moses and the Prophets did say the Scriptures Act. 26.22 Answ. All Pauls Preaching or his whole council from God is noâ— Recorded there but little in comparison of what he Pâ—eached Recorded he continued his Speech or Preaching till midnight ver 7. and talked even till break of day Where is this Sermon Recorded Many Scriptuâ—es and Books were writ by the holy men which we have not in the Bible were it not grose and false therefore to exclude them as no part of the councel of God Priest Is not that another Gospel that all the world over are taught Christ and his Gospel Answ. It is not our Gospel therefore unjustly charged against us for not all the world over are taught or are learned Christ and his Gospel though all have a Light from him sufficient to teach Priest In the use of Scriptures we are to expect he will beget Faith by his inward Teachings and Workings on the heart Answ. the matter is somwhat mended in confessing to his inward Teaching and Working on the heart but in that it seems to be tyed up or limited to the use of the Scriptures this dâ—nyes the sufficiency and extent of the Spirits inward Teaching which many have who cannot read nor use Scriptures and those who having not the Law were a Law to themselves and shewed the works of the Law written in their hearts c. though the Scriptures of Truth in their place we must needs own in that Spirit that gave them forth but whereas other-whiles Preaching is made the cause but now the Scriptures this is to make the Scriptures and Preaching all one and â—hen people may spare their mony they give to Priests for Preaching and giving their Interpretations to the Scriptures and onely read them with expectation of Christs inward teaching and working on the heart which indeed ought to be inwardly and Spiritually expected and waited for Priest He bid them search the Scriptures for in them they thought to have eternal life and they testified of him Joh. 5.39 this thought could not be a delusion Ans If this thought of their having Eternal Life in the Scriptures was not a delusion then they had Eternal Lâ—fe according to their thought but Christ testifies the contrary against â—hem in the following words saying Ye will not come unto me that ye might have life so to affirm they had it in the Scriptures is to affirm they had Christ in the Scriptures and that their searching them was their coming to Christ which is both contrary to their state and opposite to Christs own words of them that they would not come unto him that they might have Life And this contradicts thy former and much of thy stuff about Scriptures Priest â—f the searching and believing the Testimony of Christ given by the Scriptures be not really to find Eternal Life but an error c. such a thought as we blind Priests have then Christ would have told them of that error and bid them look for Life by following the Light within Answ. Believing the Testimony of Christ and searching the Scriptures are to things and the belief of which Testimony comes not barely by sâ—aâ—ching them for if it did then all that searched them had that belief and so Life c. which is contrary to the truth of what is apparent concerning many and to Christs own words of them they thought to have Eternal Life in the Scriptures and yet had neither heard the voyce of God at any time nor seen his shape they not believing him whom he sent nor would come to Christ that they might have Life Priest The Fathers before the Scriptures were written had the things contained in them by Revelations audable Voices Visions Dreames c. not by the Light within your Enthusiastick Fancy Answ. Yes It was by the Light within that they had the knowledge of those and had Revelations Prophecies c. For the Word of Prophecy was a Light to them and the inspiration of the Almighty gave them understanding when God spoke in a dream or vision of the night c. and God hath promised to pour down his Spirit upon all flesh that sons and daughters may prophecy young men may see visions c. Joel 2. was this a fancy Or to be mockt at as thou hast done Your Enthusiastick Fancy thou sayâ—st what grose error and ignorance hast thou herein shewed Priest That Christ will now beget Faith without the Scriptures Preached or known it were as good an inference to say because that by faith in Jesus Christ to come in the flesh the Fathers under the old Testament were saved therefore though one should not believe that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh yea though he should deny he is come he may be savâ—d if he believe he is to come Answ. An unequal parallel and false inference and abuse against us to compare the Scriptures with Christs coming in the flesh or to bring them in competition therewith and how did the Fathers know he was to come but by the Light or Spiâ—it of Prophecy within And how did the Saints truly and effectually know he was come but by the understanding and Eternal Life he had given them From whence Scriptures were given and from whence they spoke and wrot Priest 1. You deny the main end of Scriptures which is that we by believing what is written of Christ. 2. In them may have Eternal Life Joh. 20. 3. That we may find Eternal Life by searching they testify of him Answ. Nay the main end of Scriptures we cannot deny whilst we own and testifie to that Spirit
that can neither properly be called the Word nor are they words of God as what the Serpent said to Eve Pharaoh to Moses false Priests and Prophets in the true Prophets dayes many things and accusations which the Jewes said to Christ Were these the Word of God Mayest thou not here see thy error and confusion Priest There is nothing so much commendeth the necessity of the knowledge of Scriptures and Learning as the horrid detestable absurdityes which men unlearned c. wresting Scriptures to their own perdition however they revile Study of Scriptures and Learning Answ. There is nothing more discommendeth things and the Priests Way of Learning and Studying the Scriptures as your perverting and abusing them for your own ends and turns and the Pâ—iest making a Trade of them by their Learning and must people depend upon the fruits of your Study and Learning to know the Scriptures And yet other whiles they must expect to find Eternal Life in the Scriptures to be made Wise unto Salvation by them What contradiction's here But if the Scripture given by Divine Inspiration be profitable to the man of God and by the same Inspiration be understood and make Wise to Salvation through Faiâ—h and that the Spirit of Truth lead into all Truth then wee 'l not be beholding to thee and such as thou art for your Learning and Study who deny the immediate Teaching of the Spirit and so are but still unlearnd as to the things of God And why doest thou villify us as unlearned and make a flourish as if thou art some Eminent Learned man This shews thy Shallowness Pride and Conceitedness And were not Peter and John unlearned men and so accounted by the Learned among the Jewes Yet were full of the holy Ghost and learned by it Wouldst thou and thy Companions limmit the Gift of God or a right understanding of Scriptures to your natural drossy Learning and imaginary Study O! The Lord hath raised up and brought to light that Life and Spirit which has brought many to see thorow you and your corrupt Learning and Babylonish stuff And whereas thou dost villify and jeer upon these words Viz. That the word which the Bereans received with all readiness of mind and the Scriptures which they searched are two things and sayest I purposely pass by that which follows Viz. Whether these things were so Answ. Are they not mentioned distinctly as two The Word they received c. the Scriptures they searched to see whether these things were so Now there was more in Preaching then bare words or Scripture For their gospel came not in word onely but in Spirit and in Power which when that had touched their hearts and they had received a sence of the Spirit and Life which the Apostles were Ministers of this prepared them for a further understanding of things and matters relateing to the Testimony of Truth and of the Scriptures when they searched them in that weak state wherein they were at first receit of Truth for a further or additional confirmation of their understanding of things declared upon Scripture account touching Christ but if according to thy sence the Word which they râ—ceived with all readiness of mind and the Scriptures which they searched to see whether these things were so were but one thing then Is it good Doctrine to say that when they received the Word with all readiness of mind they searched the Word to see if those things in it were true or to try the truth of them How then was it received with all readiness of mind Or was it the Scripture which they received with all readiness of mind and thâ—n when they so received them searched them to see whether those things where so Is this thy excellent Logick If so then thy Doctrine runs thus They received the Scriptrues with all readiness of mind and they searched the Scriptures to see whether the Scriptures were so or for proof that the Scriptures were true they must search the Scriptures to prove them true by themselves Will this be admitted of as excellent Logick in your Schooâ—es to prove an assertion by the same assertion and to beg the question in controversie If so then in all points asserted and disputed of it is so because it is so will serve for proof Priest The Word you say is one How can it be called those things Answ. If the Word which I say is one cannot be called those things thâ—n it proves what I said befâ—re that the Word and Scriptures are two things and that their receiving the Word with all readiness of mind was inward but the Scriptures are outward which they searched after they received the Word Priest Are the things written in the Scriptures and the Scriptures two things What excellent Logick is this Answ. If they be not two things and yet the Word which is but one and those things contained in them be two things How are the Scriptures the Word seeing the Word and those things are two Yet here again thou shâ—west very little Learning as professed by thee for the Writing and the things written of are two things as well as Scriptures and the things contained in them for there is the thing containing and the things contained according to the distinction of them and some of your selves Priest Or ye must take the Scriptures in the abstract for the writen Characters as distinguisht from the things that are writ so nothing can be either searched or found in a number of Characters Answ. I know of none that appear so ridiculous as to search them meerly as a number of Characters so abstract to prove things or matters but to search them for those things or declarations contained in them which appear to the eye of the understanding and not to the outward eye in the bare Characters and yet Scriptures signify Writings Priest Whereas ye ask whether I think none hath Faith so none shall be saved but those that hear the Scriptures by the outward ear or can read them What God may do or doth in an extraordinary is not the question for his absolute Soveranity in his dispensations of Grace is not tied c Answ. Then God and his dispensations of Grace are not limitted or tied as many other times thou and others of you seem to tye up all now to Scripture for Life Eternal for Faith c. other whiles to your Interpretations Learning and the fruits of your study but the way to God and Salvation is Christ And no man comes unâ—o the Father but by him nor none comes to the Son but by the Fathers drawings which are known in the Spirit and Light by which we have access to God Priest The Scriptures search the thoughts as an Instrument and Christ is the principal searcher Answ. That 's Christ or the Word of God which is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart that searches the heart And it s the Lord God of hosts that telleth unto man
what his thoughts are and searcheth the heart who both can and doth spâ—ak what he pleaseth both of things declared in Scriptures and without them as he sees meet to the perticular states of men and persons and so to lay so much upon Scriptures which belongs to God and Christ and is properly their Work is unsound And Whâ—re provest thou the Scriptures search the thoughts And wherâ— say they so of themselves when they do not speak and direct to any perticular Person and shew him his thoughts and actions perticularly which the Light doth And the Spirit of Truth reproves and convinceth of the several evils whereof persons are guilty It s the Lord that sets their sins in order before them Priest It is false That any have a sincere supernatural Faith of the Scriptures that are ignorant of Christ c. They testify of him Answ. So then they must have some knowledg of Christ and from thence have a supernatural Faith of the Scriptures But how doth this agree with much more of thy work about searching the Scriptures for Life Eternal in them for begetting Faith c. Priest The foundation of the Saints and houshold of God are the Phrophets and Apostles Jesus Christ being the cheif corner-stone Eph. 2.20 Answ. Were not the Prophets and Apostles of that houshold of God If they were then they were their own foundation according thy to assertion here but thou hast wronged the Scripture for it was the foundation of the Propheâ—s and Apostles mark of the Prophets and Apostles they were built upon Christ Jesus the cheif corner stone Priest By the Prophets and Apostles that are the foundation is meant their Doctrine contained in the Scriptures not the persons Answ. Their Foundation was before their Doctrine or Scriptures Another foudation can no man lay then that which is already laid which is Christ But sure the Prophets and Apostles and Scriptures were not he Priest The Scripture makes known inward sins of thoughts and lusts Rom 7.7 Is able to makâ— the man of God perfect if they did not search into the thoughts of the heart discovering who are blind and carnal How can they make Wise unto Salvation Doth not the Scriptures make us Wise unto Salvation Therefore Are they not able to save us Christ as the principle cause of our Salvation is said alone to save us Answ. Thou meanest Christ as the principle searcher or the Spirit but the Scriptures as the instrument and then thou shouldest have said Christ makes known inward sins the Spirit searcheth all things And God Judgeth the secrets of men by Christ according to the Gospel without the knowledg of Christ there 's no supernatural faith of the Scriptures nor can any be made Wise unto Salvation but through that Faith And that Christ and the Spirit makes use of speaks and opens things contained in the Scripture many times Who denies that For then he speaks and opens those things immediately and thus the Law was made convincing to Paul not before it came thus and if on that account they be the instrumental cause then its Christ or the Spirit by hâ—s own speaking or teaching and openings that is the searcher and saviour And then it were most proper to lay the stress upon him as the searcher and Saviour and not thus often tell of the Scriptures being the searcher of the thoughts and of having in them Life Eternal lest also that ignorant persons go Idolatrously according to the tendency of much of thy matter to put them in the place of Christ or seek to make them the Saviour seeing that Christ the principle cause of our Salvation as thou confessest is said alone to save us and if he alone save its sufficient people be directed to him for that end for in him all sufficiency is who can now immediately speak matters contained in the Scriptures as well as when they were first given by inspiration And it is the inspiration of the Allmighty that giveth the true understanding without which the right use and end of the Scripture is not known Priest The Scriptures of Truth not I make four Saviours Viz. The ingrafted Word Faith Scriptures Timothy c. Answ. To us there is but one God one Christ one absolute Saviour one Faith c. Priest There is a Faith of the Scriptures that is historical this is not sufficient but this Faith may be of Christ as well and yet they not be saved but who has saving unfeigned Supernatural Faith of Scriptures cannot waâ—t it of Christ. Answ. Well Then this saving Supernatural Faith of Scripture and of Chrâ—st must come fâ—om a Supernatural Light or Christ who is thâ— Light and Author of Faith Priest How shall they believe without a Preacher sent Joh. 20. verse last They must have the Scriptures who have the knowledge of Christ for without this they cannot be kept from hell Answ. Who must send them if there be no immediate Teaching or Revelation now How provest thou thy Call from Scripture and that thou art Comissionated by Christ to Preach Thou shouldest rather have said they must have Christ who truely know the Scriptures and without him they cannot be kept from hell Priest In thâ—se Commandments written is our Life Deut. 30.15 16. Answ. The Word and Commandment was nigh them in their hearts that they might obey it and walk in the Commandments and live see Verses 11 12 13 14 15. how herein thou hast diminished and wrested Scripture and that Word which was nigh in the heart the Apostles preached It doth not say in the Commandments written is your Life Priest But that all Nations have the knowledg of Christ It s in an Enthusiastical Bible c These places He enlightens every man that cometh into the world and hath no respâ—ct of Persons are far wide from this conclusion therefore all have the knowledg of Christ all the Turks Jewes Pagans c. Oh! What monstrous horrid Doctrine c. Answ. It is not our Assertion nor Conclusion that all Nations or People have the knowledg of Christ herein hast thou abused us and our Principle for though he enlightens all they all do not walk in the Light nor believe in it But all Nations and People that come ever to know Christ and be saved must walk in his Light Who is the Way the Truth and the Life Priest Christ as he is God equal with the Father hath planted some Light of a natural conscience in every man of the world Answ. In him was life and the life was the light of men And he was that light which enlighteth every man that comes into the world who is not natural nor his Light that shines from him in the Conscience And God is Light who enlightens the World and gave his good Spirit in the dayes of old to the Rebellious and sent his Son a Light into the World That whosoever believes on him might not perish but have eternal life And here is the power and
of Envy who were not sanctified for such a work Pr. Your reason that wâ—thout Christ we can do nothing is to be meant in a Supernatural way Answ. Is not that in a Supernatural way which is without Error and Jangling and good and acceptable to God Pr. If they believe them to bâ— true do they not know them Answ. No All that believe them to be true do not know them for thou hast granted an historical Faith of Scripture Pr. He that hath heard and learned of the Father cometh to him Joh. 6.44 Answ. But all that have read and heard Scripture have not heard nor learnd of the Father nor come to Christ. Pr. None can know the Truths of the Scriptures without the Sanctifying Knowledg of Christ. Answ. This is according to what I say and overthâ—ows very much of thy matter according as hath been largely proved before Pr. He will lead believers into all Truths this is the meaning That is he will keep them from a total and final defection from Truths necessary to Salvation and lead them into Truths which are thus necessary c. Answ. This acknowledges in part to the truth of what I have said also to the Spirits leading into all Truth yea into all Truths necessary to Salvation And then the Spirit of Truth is sufficient for us to depend upon for this leading and preservation Pr The Disciples all of them except Judas had received the Sanctifying Spirit Answ How hast thou excepted Judas from the Sanctifying Spirit when he had part of the Ministery which his transgression was the cause of his falling from Pr. They were all ignorant of the Resurrection and mistook the nature of Christs Kingdom as if it had been of this world Luk. 24.21 Act. 1.6 The Galatians who had received the Spirit yet were they led into Error Answ. If they that had received the Spirit might erre in these matters much more they that had no Sanctifying Knowledg which contradicts thy former of their preaching of Truths without Errors Pr. He did not tell them ye erre not having the Spirit but not knowing the Scriptures Answ. The Scriptures they could not truely know without some Sanctifying Knowledg of Christ as before confest or of the power of God to salvation so their ignorance of the Scriptures in a Supernatural sence was from their ignorance of the power of God which unvails the heart to read and understand them Pr. For what ye say we plead for sin it doth more duely fall on the Doctrine that saith believers may totally fall as you say Peter by his denial did and David likewise by c. Answ. Nay To say there are believers that may fall from Grace who are not yet come to an established and grown state in the Truth and Power of God is no pleading for sin as your Doctrine contending and disputing for sin in all term of Life especially whiles we exhort all to watch and look dilligently to Grace received and withal warn them c. that such a falling away may be prevented for it was no pleading for sin in the Apostles to warn the Churches by the example of some that fell or of such as made shipwrack of faith and a good conscience or of such as drew back to perdition denied the Lord that bought them and such whose latter end was worse then their beginning But to charge us with saying that Peter and David fell totally this is a slander and forgery against us as there are many more in thy bundle Pr. If our peace stood in our inherent Righteousness c. in our good works c. Answ. Inherent Righteousness are thy own words obtruded upon us in thy own sence as imperfect and so in that sence not Gods nor Christs for in Gods Righteousness received in Christ by faith our peace stands and of this the true believers are pertakers in them they being in that living Faith the Righteousness whereof is not devided from it Pr. Davids Peace stood not in the freedom from all sin but in that God did pardon his sin and did not impute the same Rom. 4.6 7 8. Secondly If none ever had or shall have Peace here on earth but such as are in this Life free from all sin then you alone may boast of it c. Answ. He whose Transgression is forgiven The man unto whom the Lord imputeth not iniquity in his spirit there is no guile Psa. 32.1 2. And David bid Mark the perfect man and behold the upright for the end of that man is peace And blessed are the undefiled in the way they also do no iniquity c. And in this state stood Davids Peace contrary to what thou hast Erroniously spoke of him here Secondly And what thou hast said of our being free from all sin that we alone might boast of it this thou dost not believe of us and therefore hast ironically Scoffed and Jeered contrary to thy own thoughts and intentions And in implying none on earth free from all sin hast again erred and art herein sufficiently confuted allrâ—ady thou having herein implyed none here ever born of God none here to abide in Christ or come to perfect Holyness or to be washed from all sin by the Blood of Christ So thy Doctrine is contrary to the Apostles Pr. For none either of the Prophets Apostles or Saints that we find in Scriptures ever were thus quallified for Peace Answ. This seems to be a large and general charge against the Prophets and Apostles who generally contrary to this Doctrine testifyed unto the Peace of God which is perfect which attends the Righteousness or heavenly Image of God which is also perfect and known in the new Covenant whereby he takes away sin and establisheth his people in Righteousness and the Prophets could testify that the Lord was their Righteousness who wrought all their works in them and to the true Apostles Christ was made wisdom righteousness sanctification so thou you have shewn your selves ignorant of the Scriptures and of the Prophets and Apostles states and quallifications and what sin or sins they all had which they or any of them were not freed from before death is not yet proved by any of you who are found in the work of the old accuser of the Brethren Pr. Sin is remaining in part in all the faculties of Gods Children c. except ye had made appear that Pauls Will and Affections and Mind were perfectly against sin Some stain and inclination to sin by the contrary corruption still remained in some degrees in his Will Mind and Affections c. Answ. This is a sad accusation against all Gods Children againe and what is this but a pleading for sin and tending to strengthen the hands of evil doers What all the faculties of Gods Children having sin and corruption in them The Priests were wont to tell of a Regenerate part What part is it No faculty clean sad newes Thus to accuse Pauls Will Mind and Affections as having
which the Light within would never have discovered if there had not been the knowledg of the Law contained in the Scriptures An. Are all unbelievers then and have no Light in them but who have the Scriptures Thy blindness in this is detected before And What contradiction is it to tell of some having no Light in them when before thou hast confessed all men to have a natural Light or the Light of a natural Conscience in them Secondly And was it the Scriptures or the Law as it is in the Letter that discovered to Paul his sins and desires or the Law inward For he had the Law outward before he knew or was turned to the Law in his mind or was clâ—arly convinced in himsâ—lf Pr. Did ever the Prophets or Apostles try the Doctrines of persons deluded by Satan with the Spirit without the Scripture Deut. 13. An. The Prophets and Apostles had the Spirit and knew its sufficiency before they gave forth Scriptures and these were not deluded by Satan as falsly thou hast accused us to be An. Have not some of your way been so blasphemous as to aver Jesus Christ to be a type as to call themselves the Messiah to whom Hosanna should be said An. I know none in our way that either calls themselves the Messiah or that own such a thing but coâ—fess to Jesus Christ as bâ—ing the substance and the end of types shadows and figures but as for those whom thou hints of about their saying Hosanna they were not in our way but testified against and some of themselves came after to see confess and repent of their error so to upbraid us with any one 's failings or miscarriage espetially when t is both disowned and testifyed against by us this is both unequal and unjust and wouldest thou be so dealt by if I should go to reckon up how many drunken and whoreing Priests thâ—re be and should charge all of you and your whole Kirk with their wickedness Wouldest thou take it well Which indeed I might better do whilest such are owned and upheld as teachers of others among you thâ—n thou mights accuse us with persons and actions that are cast out from amongst us Pr. What is the Rule whereby the motions of the Spirit are to be tryed whether they be such or the motions of Satan and our deceitful hearts Ye answer the Spirit is the Rule but this cannot be for the Spirit hath given the Scriptures Secondly Neither is that place which ye cite to the purpose Viz. The Anoynting teacheth all things for though he teach it is by this Rule An. Yes The Spirit of God is sufficient a Rule sufficient both to try the motions of Satan and your deceitful hearts it searcheth all things The Lord searcheth the hearts and tryeth the reines telleth unto man his thoughts And if the Anoynting within teacheth of all things Must the Scriptures be a Rule to the Anoynting that thou seemest to tye it to the Scriptures Or Is not the teaching of the Anoynting Scripture as well as it was in them that spoke Scripture from it Or Must not people believe the Anoynting till they have searched the Scriptures to try it by them If so then when the Anoynting would tell and shew them their perticular states and thoughts and motions which the Scriptures do not tell them nor perticularly charge upon them then they are not at all in such cases to believe nor follow the Anoynting according to thy Doctrine and what is this but to set up the Scriptures above the Anoynting and the Letter above the Spirit which is a gross error and bespeaks great ignorance Pr. In the Synod at Jerusalem Act. 15. the Apostles searched the Scriptures for what they determined before they said it seemed good to the holy ghost and us An. Where provest thou that they searched the Scriptures for what they determined before they said it seemed good to the holy ghost and us Doth not this plainly confute thee that what they said was from the holy ghost And Was not its teaching their Rule then And What Scripture had they then to forbid Circumcision as they did Nay Had they not Scripture raâ—her for it If then they had not Scripture to forbid it they should not have dâ—nied or forbid it nor have believed the holy ghost in this case by thy Doctrine what silly work hast thou made on 't and How hast thou broken the neck of thy own cause Pr. The gift of discerning of Spirits was a peculiar gift given but to some but this was not for tryal of Doctrine None who had that gift of discerning of Spirits did try any Truths or Doctrine or practice but by the Scripture An. This is a strange Doctrine that they must onely try Spirits by the gift or Spirit of Truth and not any Truths or Doctrine Whether is greater the tryal of Spirits or of Doctrines Whâ—reas the Spirit searchâ—th all things and is a Spirit of true Judgment that giveth true understanding but according to thy false Doctrine that none who had discerning of Spirits did try any Truths or Doctrine or practice but by the Scriptures Then by this when the Apostles in their Epistles writ divers things that were not before in the Scriptures they were not to be believed by them in the Churches that had the gift of discerning and when the Spirit of Truth shall lead to speak or prophesie concerning a perticular Place People or Nation that which they have no Scripture for this therefore is not to be believed for want of Scripture to prove it by Thy ignorant and sottish stuff which also excludes all those Books and Prophesies of the holy men of God spoken of which are not recordâ—d in the Bible And those of our Friends which foretold of the late calamities befallen the City of London both that of the â—lague and that of the Fire which were both fore-seen and fore-told yet they had no Scripture to prove it but alass such as thou are silly and shallow in these matters being but as those Seers and Watchmen that are blind who would insinuate into people that both Prophesying Visions and Revelations are ceasâ—d and lay all upon the Scriptures and then how know you the Doctrine contained in them to be true without the Spirit Pr. Ye say Must the Scriptures be the Rule to discern or try false Spirits when they speak Scripture Ans. When the Devil spake Scripture to Christ he confuted him by Scripture which shewed he had perverted them and so he confounded the Scribes and Pharisees alwayes An. But could not Christ discerne the Devils spirit without the Scriptures What gross error and ignorance is implyed and couched in this thy impertinent answer Thou tellest us Christ confuted him by the Scripture which was when the Devil brought Scripture words to back his Temptations withal which is not an answer besides the Devils tempting Christ in these words Command that these stones be made bread and Cast thy self down
Supernatural Knowledg and Faith of Christ before the Scriptuâ—es be truely known or believed I deny any immediate teaching by God Christs immediate teaching will no wayes follow Christs opening the understanding to know the Scriptures for he doth by the same Supernatural Influence shine on the understanding and Scriptures Luke 24.22 Christs opening and shining by a Supernatural Influence plainly proves immediate teaching as we called Quakers do hold and against the Priests of Scotlands denying it who thus confute themselves If there be any Pryority or Posteriority of Christ in the Soul the Scriptures hath it in the order of nature The Lord in the comunicating of the knowledg of them he is in his being first the cause must be before the effect so the giver of knowledg before the knowledg given So that he that is the first and cause of true knowledg hath the Priority and Preheminence in all things without whom the Scriptures are not known and if it be a Priority of Christ as is said then Christ hath it Without the Sanctifying knowledg of Christ one may understand the Scriptures without error and jangling None can know the Truths of the Scriptures without the Sanctifying Knowledg of Christ. So then without that Sanctifying Knowledg none can understand them without error We may find Eternal Life by searching Scriptures they thought to have Eternal Life in the Scriptures this thought could not be a delusion He that hath heard and learned of the Father cometh to him Viz. to Christ he to wit the Spirit of Truth shall lead believers into all Truth So then the Father is to be heard and learned of that the Son may be come to and the Spirit to be followed to lead into all Truth and this way was before the Scriptures Sin is remaining in part in all the faculties of Gods Children Viz. in the Will Mind and Affections Cleanse thou me from my secret sins Peter exhorted the believing Hebrewes to abstain from their lusts Then let not sin nor sinful lusts allwayes remain in believers If you find out any other faculty of the Soul which can be a seat for sin to dwell in then the Schooles will be beholding to you for your new Phylosophie When they are believers and begotten they are so freed that the evill one cannot touch them many are commended for keeping his Commandments If the evil one cannot touch them much less hath he power to lead them into sin all their time or to uphold sin in all their faculties and the Schools that would have more place for sin allow Christ no place Believers are not freed from sin wholy till death To be unblamable is that Grace which is universal in all parts of the renewed man Unblameable is inconsistant with sin for sin is blameable where ever it is A believer ever after he is begotten of God is not free of sin they do not perfectly mortify lusts in them In the Book of Common Prayer there is a promise to forsake the Devil and all his Works the vain Pompe and Glory of the world and sinful lusts of the flesh and be led by Gods Spirit to keep his Commands many of those who promise may do this and keep it What greater promise can there be of freedom from sin then to forsake the Devil and all his works to be led by Gods Spirit to keep his Commands Your new Light you pretend is nothing but old Damnable Popery The Spirit of truth will lead believers into all truth He that hath heard and learned of the Father cometh to him Viz. to Christ. Our Light is the Light of the Spirit of Truth which cometh from Christ and guides both to hear and learn of the Father and this Light was before the Scriptures were and its blasphemy to call it Damnable Popery In the present time I am sold under sin that good I would do I do not Groaning under a body of death It was not a by-gone state Paul speakes of in the present time I am Paul was giving thanks for victory through Jesus Christ yet all these are knit together Victory and being sold under sin are two differing states as warring and being more then a Conqueror are Paul spake to the Romans after the manner of men because of the infirmity of their flesh and therein condescended to their capacities below his own present state and injoyment Perfect holiness of both Soul and Body is not to be till the Resurrection Viz. after death Believers at their death which is upon their dying are made perfectly holy Perfect holiness ought not to be put off neither so long after death nor till death for what time do you allow Christ to reign in man and to serve him if all your life time sin must remain and so long the Devil be served The Godly falleth into sin seven times a day Christ saith to Peter that he should forgive his brother seventy times seven which implyeth that a brother may offend often in the day time As for my saying a day it was a mistake of the citation of the place That of the Spirit is most prevailing with Gods Children as unto which they do adhere the flesh they renounce and resist and which by little and little they overcome It had been well thou hadst confest thy mistakes as ingenuously in other things the controversie had been the less but Do the Brethren sin all their dayes When then do they overcome What gross confusion art thou in While we live we must put on the armour of God and war against sin which is not to be ended till we lay down this Tabernacle We are cleansed from all sin by the Blood of Christ in Justification when we do believe If believers be cleansed from all sin when they do believe How have they it to war against till they lay down this Tabernacle Surely they believe before Our peace stands in our Justification by Faith and yet there are remains of sin in us which we are to mourn for There is a perfect cleansing from the guilt of sin What a cleansing from the guilt of sin and not from the sin it self this is quite contrary to Scriptures Christ was given for an advocate for the sins of those whom John calls little Children and his own which therefore were to be That of 1 Joh. 1.12 I write unto you that you may not sin Page 30. Christ Redeemeth from all iniquity is a Saviour and saveth them from their sins Math. 1.21 Luke 19.10 Christ being thus a Redeemer a Saviour an Advocate therefore sins are not to be and there was young Men and Fathers as well as little Children The Devils work remains unsubdued in the Child of God appeares by that Paul saith to the Romans The God of peace c. The God of peace shall tread down Satan under your feet shortly Rom. 16 20. And sure when Satan is thus trodden down under foot his work cannot remain unsubdued for both his power and possession is
unsound in thee and thy fellows to oppose the Light and Spirits imediate teachings and Kingdom within which both teacheth sufficiently and opens the Scriptures and leads into all Truth and to Scoff at the true sence-hereof though under the term Enthusiastick or Enthusiasm however ironically and reproachfully rendred by you which if that be dangerous and unfound then is divinely inspired unsound Is this good Doctrine For 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in quo Deus est 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Deus divine inspired Enthusiasmus an Inspiration it is the inspiration of the Almighty that gives understanding Is this dangerous No unless to the Priests to discover their ignorance And is not the Light Spirit Kingdom within communicated before the Scriptures are truly understood and opened What darkness and error hast thou here implyed and signified And doth not the Light and Spirit bring to the right use and end of the Scriptures which was given by inspiration Priest There is no man free from sin in this life c. Christ doth not totally subdue it in this life For that place 1 Joh. 3 of Christs being manifest to destroy the works of the devil if ye take it so may as well prove that Sathan shall not tempt a Child of God Aâ—sw This plainly enough shews thy confusion and ignorance of Christs manifestation and work and of his Vertue and Blood which destroyes the devils works cleanseth from all sin thorowly purgeth them that believe and follow him Secondly Thy Inference is gross and absurd To charge all with sin whom Sathan Tempts or to make his Tempting Gods Children a reason of their not having â—n totally subdued for Christ was Tempted yet sinned not for the Pâ—ince of darkness found nothing in him And he that abids in him sins not And we being made free from sin and become the Servants of God we have our fruit unto holiness Was not this the good end of Christs coming What sayes Antichrist Satan and his Agents and Sophisters to it Priest Neither doth these Scriptures 1 Joh. 3.6 Whoever is born of God sinneth not Or that ver 9. He that abids in him commits not sin and chap. 5.18 The evill one toucheth him not prove any thing c. Do they not prove any thing Sad Doctrine Is this divulg'd in the Kirk of Scotland Thus to oppose not onely Christs work but the words of plain Scripture and say they do not prove any thing when as they Viz. 1 Joh. 3.6 9. chap. 5.18 prove that Whoever is born of God sinneth not He that abids in Christ sins not The evil one toucheth him not Doth this prove nothing Doth not this equally reflect upon Christs Apostles as well as us And implicitly say they should have been silent and not so have pleaded Christs manifestation and the state of him that 's born of God against Sin Antichrist and Decievers whereas they John wrot to were plainly cautioned not to be decieved For he that doth righteousness is righteous even as he is righteous Priest It 's not the words of Scripture pickt out which explain the sence c. This is nothing but a silly and gross cavilling to insist upon bare words contrary to their sence Answ. Must we then go to the Priests for their sence contrary to plain Scripture where t is neither parable nor allegory who pick out and reject plain Scripture according to their own private imaginations and conceptions and yet other whiles in contradiction to themselves tell us the Scripture is the Rule Life is to be had in it and not communicated without it but yet such Scriptures as apparently contradict their gross and Antichristian Principles they can throw by and reject as proving nothing as this corrupt minded man hath Priest By this way a man may prove the grossest blasphemies as the Polythrites saying there are many Gods from 1 Cor. 8.5 yet in the next verse there is but one God c. Answ. First Not by our use of the Scriptures both fro maâ— right mind and for a good end namely against sin Secondly And if in the next verse after He that is born of God sinneth not thou hadst proved that he doth Sin in that he is Tempted thou hadst said somâ—hing to thy business of accusing all Gods Children with Sin term of life but herein the Scriptures own thee not Priest That 1 Joh. 3.6 9. is to be understood in a limitted sence namely that they do not continue in Sin wilfully and with delight without repentance Answ. That 's not Johns sence but thine which is as much as to say his was not true for do they continue in Sin and yet Sin not This is a contradiction or do tâ—ey continue in it and still repent of it Where 's then the fruits and effects of true repentance Or is there not a time of confessing repenting and time of forsaking Sin And casting off every weight and burthen and of being cleansed from all unrighteousness Priest They do not commit Sin with full consent without controuling of the motions The evil one toucheth them not to entangle them in such a way of sinning c. Answ. As much as to say they do commit Sin and the evil one doth touch them but thâ—y Sin not with full consent which is all one as to say John did not say true when he said Whoever is born of God sinneth not The wicked one toucheth him not c. he commits not Sin but we have ground to believe him before Sathans Messengers who thus have contended and disputed for his work Priest He is an Advocate for our Sins is meant of the Sins present and to come Answ. Not that Sin should allwayes remain in beliâ—vers but that they should be called and delivered out of it and become Gods Righteousness in him Priest His saying if we Sin implyeth as much as when we Sin Answ. Is this thy Learning thou hast boasted of Thus to pervert Scripture and the very plain sence of words as to make if we Sin as positive or absolute as when we Sin so if in other cases may as well be taken for when as if we say we have not sined we make him a liar is as much as when we say we have not sinned c. what an absurdity would this imply against the Apostles according to thy sence of him who but one impudent would not be ashamed thus grosly to abuse the Scriptures Which else where thou seemest to lay such great stress upon Priest We know in part is an imperfect degree of knowledge and so sinful Answ. As this intends the Apostle it s a false and erronious conclusion it s neâ—ther true morrally nor spiritually degrees vary not the property of the thing their knowledge they had by degrees was Gods gift to them and was spiritual from above an effect of Life and Truth which to say is sinful so accuseth the cause of it which is blasphemous and if the Apostles knowledg was sinful because in part
which gave them forth and to him whom they testify of to wit Christ by whom they are to be fulfilled unto the true believer that reads them in a right mind and Spirit Secondly But where having Life in them Viz. in the Scriptures is laid down as following believing This is an error depending upon the former and a contradiction to the Scripture that saith That believing ye might have Life through his name he doth not say in the Scriptures nor by searching them but through his name of whom they testify and those to whom these things were written that they might beleive that Jesus is the Christ c. and have Life through his name They were in some measure prepared by the Spirit or Light of Christ allready manifested to receive those things which tendâ—d to the furtherance of their Faith and confirmation of their Belief concerning Christ that they might have life through his name Pr Whoso holdeth this denieth them really and interpretatively Answ. Is this thy proof of thy false accusation against us of denying the Scriptures that we deny them interpretatively so then our denying the Priests Interpretations upon Scripture which are not Scripture must be deemed a denial of Scriptures as if they were either the same or of equall authority with Scripture or when they tell us of finding Life in the Scriptures we must take it for granâ—ed that they mean in their Interpretations upon them whereby in many things they contradict plain Scripture as hath been proved any times so however when they bid People search the Scriptures for Life Eternal in them they intend they should take their meanings along with them and believe as they say and so people must run into an implicite Faith if they take things on their Authority and Credit for by their meanings and Interpretations they can sit as Judges over Scriptures and tell people they must give the sence and reconcile them and over the Ligâ—t and Spirit within and tell them its but an Enthusiastick Fancy but who are not so Ignâ—ble as to receive a Belief or Faith from them on such a dark implicite and slender account as this of Priests But wait in the Light of Christ within for a right understanding of things that are Spiritual relating to Faith and Salvation Such find they have cause from the certain demonstration and testimony of the Spirit of Truth within to believe Christs Light and Spirit rather then the Priests meanings and private Interpretations wrestings and perverting of Scriptures Priest It is not about the expression of the Word of God that debate should be kept up if in a sound sence granted that they are called the Words of God Answ. So Then the Scriptures are granted to be words of God why then holdst thou debate against us but to shew thy cavilling Spirit For the Word was that from whence words and Scriptures procâ—eded and came to the Prophets and Messengers of God before they spoke the words to Write them Priest Ye deny that Faith cometh by hearing of the Scriptures which is the Word of God for that we receiving them by Faith are saved which is plainly asserted Joh. 5.39 Answ. We deny that Faith comes barely by hearing the Scriptures for if it did so come then all that hear or read Scriptures must have Faith and hear the Word but we see the contrary and Christ told the Jewes they could not understand what he said because they could not hear his words and yet they could hear Scriptures and him speak outwardly to them But this is a mistery hid from such as thou art and there were those whom the Word Preached did not profit bâ—cause it was not mixt with Faith in them Priest Your selves acknowledg that they are the words of God then this or that perticular saying is the Word of God seeing there is a singular where there is a plural Answ. But Singular and Plural differs and though there be a Singular included where there is a Plural is it therefore good Logick to say that Singular includes Plural or they are both one Or to saâ— that because there are Words of God in the Scriptures and where there are words in the Plural there must needs be a word in the Singular therefore these words are the Word and so are the Scriptures Is this thy Lâ—arning and Logick Surely thou art so far from knowing the Word which lives for ever and was before either the Scriptures or words in it were given out that thou art yet as one senceless and confounded in thy expressions and cavilling against â—ruth Priest The Scriptures in the Bible are called the Word of God Mark 7.13 Answ. This is a very general expression of the Scriptures in the Bible being the Word of God when they do not say so of themselves whereas all the Scriptures in the Bible are so far from terming themselves the Word of God in such an eminent expression that they cannot all be truely termed his Words there being in many places Recorded both words of Wicked men and Devils though the Historical part that relates these things be true as to the narration of them And they Mark 7.13 that made the word of God of none effect by their Tradition and rejected his Commandment did really act contrary to the Word within which Moses preached and against the Law of God without so that 's no proof of the Scriptures in the Bible being called the Word Priest That which maketh wise to Salvation or maketh the man of God perfect c. is inspired of God that is the Word of God which maketh wise profiteth 2 Tim. 3.15 Answ. Here again hast thou fallen short of proof of thy matter for where it is said All Scripture is given by Inspiration of God c. Is is added So it 's All Scripture given by inspiration But if that must be called the Word of God in thy sence then it may be read All the Word of God is given by Inspiration of God How will that sound and signify Or All the Word of God given by inspiration of God c. See thy ignorance and impertinency for though we grant that all Scripture given by Divine Inspiration is profitable to the man of God for the making Wise to Salvation but it is through Faith which words through Faith I find theâ— to have taken little notice of if any or of his being the man of God first that knows the profit of the Scriptures which are given by Inspiration that he may be Perfect which the Priests deny in denying Perfection and that he may be thorowly furnished And many things were written and directed to the Saints and not to the world c. But what thou concludest from hence doth not follow Priest Is there any Prophesie almost or Book of the Scripture but it calleth the things contained in them the Word of God Thus saith the Lord c. Answ. For as was hinted there are many things written in the Scripture
for saying the cause of somâ—s condemnation is their rejecting the Light and their disobedience stubborness c. this is according to the Scripture Language as might be proved ar large For the fault is not to be laid upon God but upon man for his disobedience when he is consumed because of iniquity which is stubborness rebellion c. For God willeth not the death of sinners but rather their return that they may live and O man thy destruction is of thy self But thy help is of me saith the Lord so as God is clear when he judges Now we can thank God without boasting that he hath shewn such Love Mercy and Good will in Christ unto us and Christ that he hath shewn us Power Life and sufficiency in himself both to believe obey and give diligence and the name of God we may praise for all his Mercies and Blessings he attends us withal in the way whereunto he hath called us and indeed all Nations are called to praise the Lord which if all do not the fault is not Gods nor to be charged upon him or his free Grace but theirs that reject it And have treasured up unto themselves wrath against the day of wrath and on the other hand they that count God a hard Master and they that blaspheme against him in their Torment and Anguish are but the slothful servants and such as have not recieved the truth in the love of it but have had pleasure in their unrighteousness And thereby have incurred displeasure from the righteous God whose severity follows on them that reject his Love and Good-will So these have not the Light as bright shining as we These being condemned from the presence of the Lord and from the Glory of his Power Priest How comes it that there is none among all these persons throughout the Nations where the Scriptures have never been heard that have Written in the defence of the Christian Faith and against the Paganish worship c. Travellers should have given some account of it c. Answ. As if the Scriptures were not onely the cause of Life Faith and Salvation according to thy former stuff but of all Writing in defence of the true Faith c. Then what was the cause and ground of Sciptures However it appears thou art no great Traveller nor hast had much acquaintance with such Travelers as we know have given account of more Christianity among divers of the heathen that have not Scripture then is among many in England and Scotland professing Christianity besides we find in divers of the heathens so called their Writings many things both Morral and Divine both favouring of Christianity and of some spiritual sence several of them had of the Nature and Life of Christianity which in it self is against all Idolatry of Pagans and others though not in your borrowed terms and expressions of Religion and Christianity And further why should the Apostle make use of some of the heathens expressions and Gentils experiences for proof if they had no tendence to Christianity Pr. But the best of those Nations and wisest were the greatest Enemies to the Gospel Answ. How provest thou that for we deny it and the ground of this thy peremptory censure and judgmâ—nt against all them that had not Scripture Many of whom we believe were better then thy self and hast thou known the best and wisest of them that thou art thus positive against them Pr. You have no warrant to say that deaf persons to whom the Scriptures have no way been known shall be saved Answ. As much as to say They that know not the Scriptures know not Salvation or shall not be saved thou shouldest have said They that know not Christ or come not to him fall short of Salvation the coming to whom is through the Fathers drawings who drawes by his own Spirit and darest thou say that deaf and blind persons shall not be saved because they cannot hear and read Scripture Pr. Before the Scriptures he taught by audible Voices Revelations c. but now you make all to be the Light within Answ. No Revelation is truely known without the Light within for what may be known of God is manifest within Pr. We deny that the Power of God is immediate Viz. in his people Ans. You may as well deny its being in his people and their inward Communion with it and therein you deny the very tenuor of the new Covenant and hereby limmit that power to mâ—diate teaching Scriptures c. what in you lies which tends to eclipse and detract from that Glory Sufficiency and Prerogative that is in Gods Power this is very gross and ignorant Pr We grant it is true which the Metaphysitians and Divines say of God that he concurreth in all works of creatures immediatione vertutis suppositi but this ye know not what it meaneth Answ. This makes against your selves if rightly considered and falsly thou hast said of us or of me for I do know what that phrase means both as to words and matter but and if we did not know what is meant why didest thou use thy Latine phrases and Scholastick terms to such as thou deemest so illiterate Hast thou not herein shewed thy self a Bravado Pr. He told us he will exercise his power for us and in us Answ. He will exercise his power in us and yet not immediate What contradiction's here Pr. Why the Grace of hope should be Christs more then the Grace of faith c. Answ. Châ—ist is the Grace of all our Graces and our all a mystery hid from thee and those of thy spirit Pr. Faith is a habit and an imperfect creature for all habits are in the category of quallity which is an accident and so an imperfect creature Answ. What Scripture have you Priests of Scotland for that Of Faith being a habit an imperfect creature or accident and Is accident and habit all one Where learned'st this Phylosophy to define Faith True Faith is not natural nor a natural habit however for thou hast granted a supernatural saving Faith but t is but a habit an imperfect creature whereas Faith is a fruit of the Spirit which is pure and perfect and the mystery of it is held in the pure conscience but if thou meanest imperfect creature as to the kind or quallity its false Doctrine and its being received by degrees doth not prove it for it s as truly and purely Faith and that of God and supernatural in the least degree yea if but as a grain of mustard-seed as in the greatest measure of it Pr. It is as impossible it should be otherwise as it is that a man abiding a man should essentially be a beast Ans. Is it as impossible Faith should be otherwise then an imperfect creature as for a man to be essentially a beast Sad Doctrine This is worse and worse Faith ovâ—rcomes the world purifies the heart justifies the mystery of it is held in a pure conscience yet not possible
for it to be otherwise then an imperfect creature Darknâ—ss Confusion and Contradiction to Truth Pr. The Grace of hope is imperfect Christ is the hope of glory Answ. These are one opposite to another but Christ is perfect who is the Grace and Life of all the Saints Graces Pr. Christs Word was his audible Voice speaking his mind Answ. Other whiles his Word is the Scriptures with thee as if the Scriptures and his audible Voice were both one which if this be true all that read them hear Christs audible Voice Is this Authentick Doctrine But Christs own words shall stand against it for Joh. 8.43 Why do ye not understand my speech even because ye cannot hear my word and we know that who hear the Son heareth the Father also But this is a mistery hid from the Carnal minded who Idolatrously pervert the Scriptures Pr. Though Christ and the Spirit be one yet he is not Christs Word for Christ is not his own word Ans. They that hear Christs Word and receive it receive of his own Virtue and Life in and the words he spake unto his are Spirit and Life thou hast here but cavilled which thou mightest as well have done against several Scriptures and against Johns saying In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God c Pr. I call the Scriptures the Word of God and the Gospel the Word of Reconcilliation The Word of God is distinguished from the Word of Reconcilliation Answ. Other-whiles the Scripture is the Gospel and the Word of God with thee now they are distinct the Word of God distinguished from the Word of Reconcilliation What confusion's here Is not the Word of Reconcilliation Gods God was in Christ reconciling the world to himself Pr. The Gospel are a part of the Scriptures and may be called one with them the Gospel is contained in the Scripture Answ. The Gospel is the power of God to salvation to every one that believes it was preached to Abraham and was before the Scriptures and is everlasting but thou hast spoken blindly here as before for Is the power of God contained in the Scriptures Then all that have the Scriptures have that power in them or from them which is not true Pr. Rom. 16.26 The Preaching of Jesus Christ according to the Revelation of the Mistery which was kept secret since the world began and by the Scriptures of the Gospel according to the Commandment of the Everlasting God made known to all Nations for the obedience of Faith Answ. But thou and such do not so preach Christ nor are so commissionated to preach at the Commandment of the Everlasting God who deny Revelation and his imediate Teaching now and this contradicts much of thy dark stuff for here the Revelation of the Mistery is prefered before the Scriptures and the Preaching according to them was from that Revelation of the Mistery which the Apostles had in them but were the Scriptures that Revelation and kept secret since the world began The Revelation of Christ was the Mistery Christ within the hope of glory a mistery hid from Ages c. How was it by the Scriptures made known to all Nations for the obedience of Faith if in many Nations there be neiâ—her the knowledg of Christ nor Scripture according to thy former And of that Rom. 16.26 which thou sayest is the Scriptures of the Gospel thou hast wronged the Scriptures herein for it is the Scriptures of the Prophets c. Pr. The Gospel and Mistery of Christ is made manifest by the Scriptures of the Prophets preached to all Nations not by a Light within If it were not in the Scriptures How could it be manifest and made known by the Scriptures Answ. If not by the Light within How by the Scripture without it Have all that hear Scripture read or preached the knowledg of the Mistery of Christ without the Light within How then doth the Apostles speak of the Revelation as before Did nor he preach from the Light within or Revelation of the Son in him Gal. 1.16 How ignorant hast thou shewed thy self in this matter Again the Mistery was not made manifest by the Scriptures alone or barely for both Revelation and Preaching is mentioned before and to tell of the Gospel and Mistery being in the Scriptures is as much as to say the power of God or Christ is in the Scriptures Pr. Doth not Mark chap. 1.2 call what he wrot the Gospel Where he saith The beginning of the Gospel of Jesus Christ c. Have you a forehead that cannot blush that tells us that the Gospel is not Scripture What a feared conscience and shameless boldness have ye attained to Answ. It is not from any feared conscience nor shameless boldness for me to assert the Gospel was before the Scripture and if Mark intended his Writing or what he writ to be the beginning of the Gospel of Jesus Christ then it follows that the Gospel of Jesus Christ did not begin before Mark wrot that ReveRevlation and then how doth he mention what was written in the Prophets and tell of the Gospel of Jesus Christ And did not Jesus Christ shew forth his power and preach the Gospel before that of Mark was writ But seeing thou hast taken the liberty both to give thy meanings to Scriptures and pretends to compare one Scripture with another I may have liberty to tell the other Scriptures in this case as in Luke 1.1 he saith Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most truely believed amongst us and ver 3. It seemed good unto me also c. And Act. 1.1 The former Treatise have I made O Theophilus So what they writ it was a Treatise or Declaration of things spoken done and believed and much of which relates to the historical part of things and matters but if the written Declaration Treatise of things or Scripture without be the Gospel then hireling Priests may be silent and let people read them without spending their mony of them for their various meanings traditional Interpretations c. for the Gospel ought not to be added to nor another preached how-be-it there is a difference between true Preaching proceeding from the immediate Spirit and Power of God which Paul was a Minister of and the Scriptures or Writings outward without the Spirit or Life for Paul was not a Minister of the Letter but of the Spirit and New Testament And is not a living Ministry and Voice especially where it lives by vertue of the Power of God from whence it immediatly comes of more force and authority then the Letter or Writings which Scriptures signify Yea I do further affirm that the same Words or Dâ—clarations as immediatly proceeding from the Power or Spirit of God is of more force and effect then the same words would be as spoken onely from Scripture without Deny it you Priests if you can I can in
they can serve him no longer Pr. They may mean and understand that the perfect holiness of both Soul and Body is not to be till the Resurrestion which is nothing differing from that which I say I do not say that the Body in the grave is capable of holiness till it be raised Answ. If this doth nothing differ from what thou sayest it s very strange didest not say a little before upon his dying What 's done upon his dying Is he made wholy free from Sin yea or nay If thou meanest onely the Soul that that 's onely freed from Sin at death or upon dying and not the Body till it be raised as thou sayest Then what becomes of the Sins and impurity of the Body in the mean time or the defilments and pollutions thereof Doth it dye with the Body seeing the Soul is pure when it ascends to God Or if the Body be not capable of Sin in the grave Then where is the being of unholiness and corruption to be done away so long after death as is imagined Or to say that perfect holyness of both Soul and Body is not till the Resurrection how long after death you know not Doth not this make for the Papists imagination of a Purgatory For if the being throughly purged from all unholiness be not till after death it must be some where but this your Doctrine is contâ—ary to the Apostles who said How can we that are dead unto sin live any longer therein And being made free from sin c. He hath washed us from our sins in his own blood c. Pr. From Pro. 24 16 It cannot be so properly said The godly fall seven times into trouble and riâ—e again Answ. Yes The godly falls into many troubles and afflictions but God delivereth them out of them all And he is with them in six troubles and in seven he will not forsake them And its plain from that of Pro. 24.15 16. that the just mans falling sevâ—n times and rising again is of another nature then the wickeds falling into mischief for in verse 15 16. its said Lay not wait O wicked man against the dwelling of the righteous spoyl not his resting place For a just man falleth seven times and riseth up again but the wicked fall into mischief It is not said as many of you have wronged the Scripture that the Righteous man sins seven times a day yea some of the Priests and Professors have not onely said so but have also said that the most Righteous man that is or ever was sins seven times a day which is a deceit and corruption put upon Scripture Pr. As for my saying a day it was a mistake of the citation of the place though it s not contrary to sence for Christ saith to Peter that he should forgive his Brother seventy times seven times which implyeth that a Brother may offend in the day time A. If he who is a Brother may offend in the day time Doth it therefore follow that all the godly or brethren do fall into sin seven times a day And wilt thou to serve thy perverse and corrupt end say in that a Brother may offend seventy times seven therefore he Sinneth seven times every day all his time Surely thy implicite consequence is a mistake and error and thou hast wronged the Scriptures as well as thy citation of the place mentioned But we see thou wilt stand by the Devils Cause though thou comest never so feebly off yea and fall with it Pr. I grant that the Child of God cannot Sin totally and finally and whoso doth it is of the Devil Answ. Herein again thou hast wrested and added to the Scripture as often before Totally and Finally are thy own words and not the words of John who affirmed That he that 's born of God sinneth not neither can he To say he that commits Sin Totally and Finally is of the Devil Is this all the distinction of the Devils Servants and Children from the Children of God How miserably hast thou pleaded Gods Childrens cause Surely they have no Reason to be beholding to thâ—e but may justly exclude thee for wronging of them Pr. In the sence ye imply it that he who Sinneth at all or in whom their 's any defect thus none living then ever knew or saw him Those who are commended for knowing him Sinned Secondly Job cursed his day David what sad falls he had is known Jeremiah the Apostles all of them Answ. That he that Sinneth and is of the Devil and that he that Sinneth not who is of God are two contrary births and that which is born of the spirit is spirit as that which is born of the flesh is flesh which if thou knewest the difference of and were seperated from the evil and joyned to the good thou wouldest not go about to confound them nor grosly to pervert the Scriptures and to accuse Gods Birth or Child as thou hast done Secondly And why doest thou not tell us of their deliverances as well as their falls and of their conquest which by dâ—grees they obtained in their Life time But this would make against thee and thy ill cause for Sin and Sathan whose work thou art in Pr You say a Believer is free from all Sin which we suppose you meant of a Believer from the very instant that he begins to be a Believer as ye said that the Spirit cannot be united unto Sin Answ. Nay It is not our Principle that a Believer from the very instant that he begins to be a Believer is free from all Sin thy supposition herein and much of thy matter grounded upon it is false thou hast gone about to overthrow our Principles when thou art yet to learn what we hold in this matter For a man is a Believer whilst in the faith he is warâ—ing against Sin and waiting to obtaine victory over it and to come into the glorious liberty of the Sons of God The victory is not obtained at the very first beginning of Gods work in a Soul but by degrees through Faith which purifies the hearts of them that believe and receive power in the Light of Christ and Spirit of Life to become the Children of God and of the Light which hath no unity with Sin nor can have with persons but as they forsake Sin and come out of it Pr. As you contradict your self so you do the Truth For can Sin be in any man and the actions flowing and the man not be Sinful If Sin be in a man doth it not defile him Answ. If the actions of Sin be flowing from a man he is sinful but there is a time when the Beleiver warreth against Sin and can say as Paul did It s not I that Sins but Sin that dwelleth in me And there 's a time wherein there be Sins that do easily beset and when Sin is presented in the Temptation when it is not yeilded unto but withstood and by degrees overcome by Faith in the power
thou knowest not which as before was answered thee makes for their imagination of a Purgatory but if the Papists hold that some Believers are free from all Sin and perfected in this Life therein they outstrip thee and the Priests who would exclude all Believers from perfection and freedom in this Life Pr. Ye say that all men have a like Light and Grace some do attain to salvation others not which proceedeth not from any difference of Grace given by God but that others have better improven the Light given to all which improvement must indeed come from free will Ye hold Merit You are not so ingenious as Papists An. Concerning Grace being given alike to all if thou intendest in measure or quantity thou hast vainly made repetitions without ground against us but as for the improvement of the Grace it comes not from free will as falsly thou hast said but from the capacity the creature is put into by the Grace it self for mans will is not made free of it selfe but by the Grace or Power of God which worketh in man to will and to do But and if somes not attaining of salvation is because it s either from a difference of the Grace given by God or for want of sufficient Grace given by him according to thy Doctrine then this charges the fault upon God as being partial and the occasion of some mens destruction contrary to that saying of the Prophet He willeth not the death of a sinner but rather his return c. Pr. That the Light that Christ enlighteneth all men with is sufficient for the knowledg of the mysteries of the Kingdom is contrary to Scriptures An. Nay It is not contraâ—y to the Scriptures that the Light of Christ in men is sufficient for the knowledg of mysteries of the Kingdom savingly in that t is sufficient for believing leading out of darkness and to receive the Light of Life And they from whom God hath hid those mysteries are such as disobey the Light and shut their eyes against it as Christ said Their eyes have they closed c. least they should see and be converted and I should heal them All which doth evidence the defect and fault not to be in the Light of Christ but in them that disobey it Pr. The natural man cannot know the things that are of God he hath no sufficient Light to know that which he cannot know An. That therefore he hath no sufficient Light is no true consequence for then by this none have Light sufficient whilst in the natural state which all are in before they are made spiritual thy consequence had onely held to prove the Light insufficient if thou couldest have proved that they that are in the fallen and natural state cannot be changed nor restored into a spiritual state but this were gross to affirm for as man is natural he cannot know the things of the Spirit buâ— the spiritual man doth Pr. The Jewes that had the outward meanes shut their eyes against it neither doth it mean of the Light of Christ within except onely the Light of nature An. The Jews had not onely an outward meanes but also an inward Light the good Spirit of God given to them though they Rebelled and the Word nigh them in their heaâ—ts c. which was not a Light of nature Herein thou hast greatly erred And would Christ have reproved any for shutting their eyes against that which is natural and insufficient and made that the cause of their not being converted and healed See Mat. 13 15. Thine and the Priests darkness and ignorance in this matter How great is it Pr. The Kingdom of God being Righteousness Peace Joy in the Holy Ghost no man that hath not the Sanctifying Spirit hath it or had it within him no peace nor joy in the wicked An. The Kingdom of heaven was in the Pharisees or Jews as Christ said The kingdom of heaven is within you Luk. 17.21 when they were unsanctifyed though they were not come into it nor to attain to the righteousness and peace of it for that 's attained to by such as are translated out of darkness into the Light for all that have a true Light and Seed in them are not in it Pr. The Light of the Scriptures is a Light shining in a dark place 2 Pet. 1. An. The Light that Peter directed them to was the more sure Word of prophecy 2 Pet. 1. And was that the Scriptures of the Prophets Or did that Light come from them or from Christ If so then Why were they not directed to the Scriptures of the Apostles Or Were the Scriptures of the Prophets more sure then the Apostles writings Surely the Light which leads to the day star arising in the heart thou art exceeding ignorant of and thy darkness may be felt Pr. How gross Pelagionisme is that the same Light which was Sanctifying to others that obeyed was Condemning to Judas and Cain Is Gods revealing of those things and hiding of them the same Sanctifying Light and Illumination An. God who reveals those things to the obedient that he hides from the disobedient this plainly contradicts thee and thy former words for God is still the same Light and it is the Spirit of Truth that Sanctifyes and Justifyes the Righteous or Obedient that reproves the world of sin c. And this is the condemnation that light is come into the world and men love darkness rather then light c. Joh. 3. So in this matter thou hast shewed thy self ignorant of the Scriptures Pr. Where there are many Words of God being taken together they are called the Word of God An. Thou mightest as well say that many words and one word are both one Where provest thou thy assertion For in contradiction to this presently after the Scriptures call Christ the Word of God in some places and sure the Scriptures and Christ are distinguished they are not Christ. Pr. K. 8.46 That there is no man liveth and sinneth not It doth not say there is no man liveth and hath not sinned An. He that abideth in Christ the second Covenant sinneth not but is redeemed out of that state in which there is no man that sinneth not and John said If we say we have not sinned we make him a liar c. 1 Joh. 1.10 Pr. Their begetting is in order of nature before their faith An. Wheâ—e provest that Is begetting in the unbelief then and not in the Faith whereas the Word which begetteth is the Word of Faith and profits not where t is not mixed with Faith within Pr. Those of your way have held out to the world that to have Hebrew Greek and Latine is a mark of Antichrist An. Thou hast often wronged those of our way as thou hast in this wherein thou art answered at first Pr. Those who tell us of a faith in Christ without the Scriptures have no Light in them Secondly There are many things which we think and desire against the Law
taken from him by a greater then he We have peace with God but are all compassed about with infirmities and subject to passions as was Elias We are cleansed from all sin by the Blood of Christ. Aâ—l passions are not sinful passions for passions are sufferings for it could not be that Paul and Barnabas were subjects to the like sins with those Idollaters Act. 14.13 14 15. when subject to like passion with them Here is another Arminion and Popish error that believers may fall from Grace A believer may fall Peter and David sinned foully Surely their sinning so foully was not in the Faith but when they were turned from it which required their repentance That Peter and David fell from Faith is an Arminion and Popish error Evil works come not from Faith Then the evil works they did were out of and against the Faith and had they stood in the Faith they had been kept from those evil works Peter and David had their failings Viz. till deaâ—h Eliah an old Prophet subject to like passion as we are c. Christ said to Peter I have prayed for thee that thy Faith fail not When thou art converted strengthen thy brethren Doth signify when he should be fully recovered And surely Peter was so converted or fully recovered as to strengthen his Brethren before his decease and like passions were like sufferings which may relate to sickness Jaâ— â— 13 14. or other afflictions for Paul and Barnabas were not subject to the like Sins or Idollatry with those heathens Act. 14.15 It is not sad Doctrine as you say but comfortable that as believers may fall as Peter and David whereas he doth not fall wholly away but hath still the Seed of Grace remaining in him p. 24. The sad breach that Peters fall made on his Soul did weaken his Grace and cloud his comforts very much There are remains of sin within us which we are to mourn for If sin did very much cloud his comforts and be the cause of mournings as it was both to David and Peter then for you to plead for sin term of life cannot be a comfortable Doctrine unless to such as be hardened in sin and take pleasure in it Which improvment of the Light within must indeed come from free will and consequently ye hold Merit We must put on the whole armour of God and war against sin pa. 23. Do not they improve the Light who war against sin and this is not of or from mans will in the Fall but from the power that converts and works in him to will and to do There are remains of sin within us while we live here which we are to mourn for The kingdom of God is Righteousness Peace Joy in the holy ghost Twenty sixth Page Therefore sin which is the cause of sorrow hath no place in the kingdom of God which the Saints attain to here Faith is an habit and an imperfect creature Saving Faith is given of God and is a saving enlightning of the Soul to know Christ Faith is a Sanctifying Light What strange Doctrine is this that an imperfect creature is a Saviour an Enlightener a Sanctifier and doth the Kirk of Scotland receive this for Orthodox The Gift of God is perfect and every good and perfect Gift comes from God Those who tell us of a Faith in Christ without Scriptures have no Light in them pa. 28. Twenty sixth Pag. The Jewes wilfully rejected the Light and shut their eyes against it wicked men who rebel against the Light have the Light of a natural Conscience and the common work of the Spirit Then they had the Light and the work of the Spirit is not natural but no Light in them excludes natural Light as well as spiritual from being in them whereas in that Isa. 8.20 it should be no morning in stead of no Light Jesus Christ bid them search the Scriptures for to find him in them They might have Life by the true spiritual knowledg of Faith these who believed and had Life did own the Light within and who denieth that is Christ sheweth by the Spirit of Revelation and Wisdom within Now Supernatural Knowledg Light within Spirit of Revelation and Wisdom within is confessed but another while imediate teaching power c. is denied by those who think to find Christ in the Scriptures but Is that Christ that suffered at Jerusalem to be found in the Scriptures How blind are you Priests of Scotland The Child of God cannot sin Totally and Finally There is no man liveth and sineth not Those for whom Christ hath given himself he Redeemeth from all iniquity How from all iniquity and yet sin so much contended for by you These all for whom Christ died cannot be meant of each individual person of the world how are they lost if he came to save them this argueth defect of wisdom to foresee want of power to effect his intention pa. 31. He died for all some have wilfully rejected the Grace given that wilfully trample under foot the blood of the Son of God There is neither defect of wisdom nor want of power in Christ but wilfulness and rebellion in man that lets he died for all his Grace is freely tendered that they may believe and be saved But this is not by absolute compulsion and force as if therefore he were absolutely intended to save all but Love and Good Will is shewed towards all many wilfully reject and trample upon it as is confest Motions of Satan and our deceitful hearts are to be tried it is comfortable Doctrine that a believer may fall as David and Peter Those that got a new heart from God and his fear put in them they do not depart nor revolt It is the deceitful hearts that are comforted with such Doctrine that is for falling as David and Peter did and not the new heart in which Gods fear is put The Scriptures do reveal the Mysteries pa. 27. Jesus Christ sheweth by the Spirit of Revelation and Wisdom within pa. 30. The Scriptures testifie of the Mysteries but then Christ by that Spirit within Reveales them The Scriptures being many words of God taken together they are called the Word of God pa. 25. The Scriptures calleth Christ the Word of God in some places Christ the Word was before the Scriptures or the Words besides one word is not many words nor many words properly to be taken for one word Is not the Father distinct from the Son and the Spirit in the personal Subsistance pa. 31. Both the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost are a Spirit pa. 33. Both â—or all a Spirit and yet distinct in personal Subsistance Where learned you this Doctrine Not from the Scriptures Ye do not own what the Scriptures assert but your own blasphemous fancies Viz. about the Deity three Persons distinct in the personal Subsistance pa. 32. Ye say ye own what the Scriptures of Truth assert of the God-head That there are three that bear record in heaven
The Principal Controversies BETWEEN The Litteral Presbyters of the Kirk of Scotland and the Illuminated Members of the Church of Christ CALLED QUAKERS Truly Collected Stated and Opened in a particular Reply herein specified for general Information and undeceiving the deceived By an earnest Contender for the most Holy Faith which was once delivered to the Saints G. W. 1 Tim. 6.20 Avoiding prophane and vain babling and oppositions of science falsly so called 2 Pet. 2.12 But these as natural bruit Beasts speak evil of the things they understand not c. Vers. 13. Sporting themselves with their own deceivings Vers. 14. Having Eyes full of Adultery and that cannot cease from sin Printed in the Year 1672. A Brief Introduction Reader HErein is asserted the real sufficiency of Divine Illumination and Inspiration together with the Doctrine of the Saints Perfection in Christ and his Universal Light and Grace to Mankind and thereby the real Use and End of the Holy Scriptures made known and the pretious Truths therein Owned and Vindicated from the gross Errours Perversions Absurdities Reproaches manifest Confusions and Contradictions of some Rigid Presbyters of Scotland to whom this Tract containes a brief Reply in many short Paragraphs which was thus occasioned Viz. Some of the Presbyterian Priests or Teachers in Scotland having some years ago writ a great bundle against us the People of God called Quakers in a way of slighting and deriding some things of Truth which above ten years ago I wrote in Answer to a Paper containing a pretended Answer to 26 Queries of Geo. Fox's Junior with some Queries written by one Edw. Jamison in whose Name with two more the said bundle against us was conveyed in Manuscript to divers hands as a pretended Answer to mine which providentially after a long time was brought to my hands about four years ago which then I perused and collected the principal Heads and Passages in it both of Doctrine seeming Argumentation and their Objections which I have here inserted in their own very words as I have their Book in Manuscript to evince and I wrote a Reply to each particular for the clearing the Truth and to manifest his and their abuse thereof and their gross perversion of the holy Scriptures together with their self Contradictions which are very apparent and easie to be seen by any unbyassed And not only their weakness and defection appears but their enmity against the Doctrine of Perfection both as it relates to the truly Sanctified and to their Faith and graces which these Presbyters accuse not only with Imperfection but with Sin Their darkness against the Light of Christ within Their cruel partiallity against the free extent of Saving Grace their sinful unbelief against the Sufficiency of the Holy Spirits teaching their gross ignorance and scorn against Divine Inspiration and Immediate Teaching in these dayes their carnal mindedness for their Traditional Ordinances of men against the Spiritual Dispensation of the Gospel and New Covenant wherein the Antitype of all even the enduring substance and heavenly things themselves are enjoyed by the clear sighted Children of the day beyond and above all Types Shadows and outward Representations or Memento's whatsoever These and the like things are spoken to in my following Reply A Coppy whereof was sent into Scotland for those concerned soon after it was written whereof as I am informed Edw. Jamison had a Coppy but since I had no further Answer nor Reply from him And now since some of our Friends in Scotland considering that there would be a service in making the following Reply more Publick and knowing that the said Edw. Jamison with divers more of his Brethren are of contentious and boasting spirits and yet seem not ready or willing to take notice of such things as pinch them while not made Publick as in this Case divers of our Friends in Scotland have hereupon desired the Printing and Publishing of this my Reply And in Answer to their Requests I have given them my first Copy thereof to divulge desiring that all who Read it may weigh the things therein contained and that they eye and have regard to that Light of the Son of God in their Consciences which manifests those things that are reprovable and is able to endue the Creature with a Right Judgment between those things that are of God and those things that differ and so to try all things and hold fast that which is Good London the 22th day of the 6th Mon. 1672. From a Real Friend to all who desire to know the Way of Life and Peace George Whitehead THE PRINCIPAL CONTROVERSIES BETWEEN The Litteral Professors of the Kirk of Scotland and the Illuminated Members of the Church of Christ called Quakers c. Here are the Doctrines and Principles of some of the Presbyterian Priests of Scotland Collected out of a great Bundle in Manuscript Subscribed Edw. Jamison with other two Names on the outside viz. Oswald Harland Edward Orde Together with the Heads of many of his corrupt Reasons and perverse Arguments against the Truth and Scriptures which are here detected and the People of God called Quakers vindicated from his and their Aspersions Calumnies and false Accusations therein The Priest YOV Have renounced Learning as Antichristian Answer That 's false For not Learning in it self simply considered do we renounce but the absurd and corrupt Idolatrous Use of it by men of corrupt mindes who have not Learned of Christ but in their Antichristian Spirit deny his Immediate Teachings Priest Absurd arguings against clear and abundant Scripture-Proofes which have been held forth by far more able than I am Therefore that my Answers have not Converted you is not to me either Strange or a Disappointment Answer False again I argue not against clear Scripture c. but against thy abusing and perverting of it as will yet further appear and much unprofitable labour thou mightest have spared and forborn whilst thy end was not to convert us what was it for to insult and boast over us And yet art far short of some that have dealt with us if we were conquered and confuted before hadst thou a mind to shew thy vallor over us thou hast missed of this end also Priest I have born witness to the Truth against your way Answ. Thou hast born witness to his work who is the Father of Lies against the Truth as will further appear to the shame of thee and thy confederates Priest There can hardly be brought any absurdity grosser for defence of your Cause then it self c. Answ. Then it was gross and absurd in thee to make raise and forge so many absurdityes upon our Cause as thou hast done though they be very groundless light frothy and frivilous as in this sequel will appear and become more obvious to the impartial spectators Priest The Light the Spirit Kingdom within are taken in a dangerous unsound sence by Quakers in an enthusiastick sence as communicate without Scripture Answ. It s both dangerous and
sufficiency both for Believing and Salvation Priest All men have a Light of a natural Conscience from him which tells that there is a God and somewhat of the nature of God that he is Eternal which they may read in the creatures Rom. 1.19 20. and of the morral Law which yet is but very dark c. Answ. Where do the Scriptures call it a Light of a natural Conscience What great Ignorance is here seeing Christ is the true Light that enlightens every man c. And that which might be known of God was manifested in them which gave the knowledg of the Eternal Power and God-head from the creatures and of the Law of God in the heart and that Light or that which might be known of God which gave this knowledg was not natural of a natural Conscience as blindly is conceived and asserted for the natural man with his natural knowledg perceives not those Spiritual or Invisible things nor can he know them but he that 's turned to a Spiritual Light and Principle within where that which may be known of God is manifested Priest But of Christ in his nature and the nature of Faith they cannot without the Scriptures so far as it is Gods appointed Way Answ. Christ is Gods appointed Way c. This high and general opinion of the Scriptures depends upon the former conceit of finding Eternal Life in them by searching of them but that 's answered and contradicted by this our Antagonist himself over and over Supernatural knowledge and Faith of Scriptures being not had without the knowledg of Christ but there are many search and read Scriptures that are both out of this knowledg and Faith so that t is evident that the bare reading Scriptures doth not attract supernatural Faith Knowledg Light Spirit c. but it is the supernatural Light and Spirit that brings to the serious reading and supernatural knowledg of Scriptures And it s also confessed in contradiction to much more however that the Light in all men teaches them of the morral Law and Is not that Scripture or things contained in it Priest The Light wherewith Christ enlightens all all Nations had before Christ came in the flesh as well as now and yet Who will say that they all knew Christ Answ. It is not our saying nor assertion that they all knew Christ though some by his Spirit or Light then had a fore-sight of his coming before he so came though since he has given a more full demonstration and discovery of his Light Priest If all men are taught to know Christ by the Light within them Why sent he Apostles to all Nations to make them disciples Mat. 28.20 Answ. All men are not taught that knowledg by the Light because all obey it not but many love darkness rather The Apostles were sent to turn them from darkness to the Light that therein they might know their Doctrine fulfilled and be Christs disciples Priest Why did he give gifts to Apostels Pastors Teachers which should continue till we all come to that unity of the Faith and fulness of the Stature of Christ Was that Light within dim in those times that it needed the help of outward Light How was it a mystery hid from Ages Answ. The dimness was in the Persons that were to be turned and directed to the Light not in the Light it self and the Apostles went by virtue of the Light and Gifts in them for the help of people and not the Light for their sufficiency and help was in it and from it which was not outward nor natural and having confessed Gifts Teachers c. to continue till we all come to the unity of the Faith and fulness of the stature of Christ. How obviously hast thou herein contradicted thy former Doctrine for imperfection and sin till death c. Priest You have made the visible Church very large who have taken all the men of the world that ever hath been into it If the Lord has given Grace and Knowledg equally to all men Wherein stands the freedom of his Grace towards them that are saved Answ. These are both forged and false accusations depending upon the former against us for neither did we ever make the visible Church of that largness nor is it our Principle that Grace and Knowledge is given equally to all men that 's but thy false inference against us whereupon thou hast grounded much of thy caviling against us like one that loves to fight with thy own shadow or a man of straw of thy own makeing to make and forge lies against us and then go to confute them Unprofitable and vain Priest Never did the greatest Enemy of free Grace so tye up and limmit God in the dispensations of Grace as you that with good words and fair speeches would deceive the Soules of the simple Answ. Nay Thou and such like go about to tye up and limmit God in the dispensations of Grace who would tye it up onely to a few and deny its universal extent to all and as those Priests of Scotland that formerly curst all them that held Grace is free and that with good words and fair speeches we would deceive the hearts of the simple is a slander against us and against our end and intentions and contrary to the tendency of our words and speeches Priest Judas got as much from God as Peter did but he rejected it but Peter made better use of it Your free Grace that all men have received alike doth not exclude boasting but say Well was it with us that made better use of that which others in hell got as well as we Thanks to our deligence and good intentions and tractableness in harkning to the Light within which all the damned got as bright shining as well as we but for Christ we have no cause to thank him more then the damned have This is the Language your Doctrine of free Grace teacheth men to say in their thanks-giving Answ. Here-upon several of thy false conclusions and inferences against us thou hast thus uanted and made a false Language of our Doctrine contrary to the very nature and tendency of it Who but men in hardness and impudent boldness would go to confute and raise absurdityes on our Principles when they do not know them but are yet to learn as thou art with thy companions For it is not our Principle nor the Language of our Doctrine that all have the knowledg of Christ equally and that Judas got as much from God as Peter nor that free Grace all have received alike nor that the damned got the Light within as bright shining as we but that God is no respecter of persons in that he gives liberally to all so much of his Grace to every one as is sufficient yet not that all have received alike or the same degree of Grace and Knowledg c. for all receive not or accept not that measure of Grace given to them to obey it But whereas we are scoâ—â— at
corruption remaining still in them whereas his Will was to the good his Mind and Affections were on things above when converted and victory obtained and the viâ—e affections and desires mortified which they that are Christs have crucified and his saying With my mind I serve the law of God but with my members the law of sin related to the state of his Warfare and shewes an opposition in his mind against serving sin But thy Doctrine signifyes thus much as if he had said with my Mind I serve sin and with my Members I serve sin yea with my Mind Will and Affections I serve sin and the Law of God both this were a serving two Masters And then where 's the contrarâ—eâ—y and opposition thou speakst of afterward Pr. I said There was Flesh and Spirit in him so that neither the operations of the Flesh or Spirit were compleat and perfect because of the opposition they have one to the other the Flesh and Spirit are contrary one to another Ans. Thy making the opposition between the Flâ—sh and the Spirit and their contrariety one to the other thy reason to prove that neither the operations of the Flesh or the Spirit were compleat and perfect it proves the quite contrary for the Spirits opposition to the Flesh and its contrary operation proves that the Spirits operation is pure and compleat against that which lusts against it and so against the fruits and works of the Flesh which are absoluâ—ly also opposite to the fruits of the Spirit yet they through the Spirit came to mortify those deeds and works of the Flesh which were corrupt Pr. Ye cannot do those things that ye would because he could not Will them perfectly Ans. It s God that works in the believer both to will and to do and his Work is perfect and to whose Will mans Will ought to be subject Pr. If all the imperative faculties of the Will and Mind and inferiour of the affections be fully and strongly joyned for any action the members of the body cannot but be obedientially c. Ans. Then such as have the mind of Christ whose Wills and Minds are subject unto his as theirs whom he calls his Brethren and whose affections also are set upon things above such have unity with Christ and in their faculties as thou callest them and therefore their members must needs be obedientially subject as theirs who are sanctified throughout in Body Soul and Spirit Pr. What part of him did sin dwell in if neither in his Mind Conscience Affections c. Ans. He said In his flesh dwelt no good thing but it was not all his life time of continuance Pr. If you can find out any other faculty of the Soul which can be a seat for sin to dwell in then these three the Schooles will be beholding to you for your new Philosophy Ans. We may therefore see what Schooles and Discipline you have that would be beholding to us to find out some other faculty of the Soul for sin to dwell in but me-thinks thou shouldst intend better then thy words import and have said You would be bebeholding to us to shew you another which is no seat for sin and that you should not seek for more room for sin for it hath as much room amongst you as you can afford it in all the facultys both superior and inferior both in the Wills Minds and Affections But so it had not in the Children of the Light Pr. The pure Protestant Religion which is held out from Scriptures Answ. Is that your pure Protestant Religion that pleads for sin in all the facultyes of the Soul An impure Religion and Doctrine of the Ministers of sin pure Religion where it is there 's a keeping unspotted of the world Pr. There is a Righteousness of Christs Sufferings and Merit imputed c. which begets Peace which may consist with sin in a believer though thereby no Condemnation to him Answ. Christs Righteousness is known to be pure and perfect and not to consist with sin for they are inconsistant and the believer that 's come to a fellowship of Christs sufferings and a conformity to his death to know his Righteous Will by faith imputed he walks after the spirit not after the flesh and to such there 's no condemnation Rom. 1.8 Pr. Cleanse thou me from my secret sins Answ. Then let not secret sin remain in me all my Life time let not sin and corruption remain in all the faculties of my Soul so long as I live Pr. There is a Righteousness which is the same with Sanctification which is not perfect and compleat therefore no man by this inherent Righteousness is Justified Answ. What Righteousness and whose is it which is the same with Sanctification which is not perfect Is it Christs yea or nay And Is Sanctification imperfect in this Life And Is this that thou callest inherent Righteousness In this thou hast but acted the part of Sathans mâ—ssengers as hore-tofore and contradicted the Apostles Doctrine who preached to present men perfect in Christ and exhorted to purge themselves from all filthiness both of flesh and spirit and so to a perfecting of holiness in the fear of God And Was not Christ made unto them Righteousness Sanctification and Redemption And is he devided or imperfect in what he is to the Saints What grose and faâ—se stuff hast thou implyed and vented And it was they that were washed and sanctified that were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the spirit of our God See 1 Cor. 6.11 Pr. You do not admit of this Doctrine Your new Light you pretend is nothing but old damnable Popery Ans. Our new Light as thou callest it is the Light of Christ the same the Apostles preached and bears witness to their Doctrine against thine and the Priests who oppose it And its Blasphemous and Damnable in thee to deem this our Light nothing but old damnable Popery it will appear that thou art nearer Popery then we in thy contending for sin term of Life but onely thou tellest us not of a Purgatory Pr Paul had victory begun but not compleated except from the the Condemning Power of Sin but the Reigning Power and Defiling was not subdued totally c. Ans. Confusion And contrary to Pauls Doctrine and state to tell of victory and yet the Reigning Power and Defiling not subdued totally as much as to say his Enemy was conquered and yet Reigned still whereas he said He had fought the good fight of faith and had kept the faith he was more then a conquerer through Christ that loved him And they to whom there was no condemnation were in Christ and walked not after the flesh but after the spirit And was there not such as were compleat in Christ to whom Paul wrote and dost not believe that he had attained to as high a growth as any of them to whom he writ or preached consider it Pr. In the present time I am sold under sin
of Christ But this is hid from all blind contenders for Sin Pr. Neither doth that passage which ye abuse it s not I but Sin that dwelleth in me imply any thing of that kind that he doth not Sin Answ. What is this less then to say Paul said not true when he said It s not I that sin but sin that dwelleth in me But to distinguish between the two Sâ—eds and two Births that which did not Sin and that which did Sin it appeares thou knowest not but art very ignorant and blindly cavillest in many things Pr. God judgeth of his Children that are thus devided according to the better and sounder part as is that of the Spirit which is most prevailing with them and unto which they do adhere and not according to the Flesh which they renounce and unto which they resist and which by little and little they overcome A The Spirit most prevailing in Gods Children they adhere to it and resist and renounce the Flesh and yet the Flesh have the better What Doctrine is this and what contradiction And how doth this oppose the Spirits sufficiency and the end of their adhereing to it which is that they may be thorowly sanctified both in Body Soul and Spirit Pr. Indeed you make your self a Patron of Sin in saying that the Children of God when they come short of the good they would and when they do the evil they would not they do not Sin Now whether you or thâ—se you rail against deserve to be accused as defenders of Sin You say that a Believer when he doth the evil he would not he Sinneth not No more vile defence of Sin imaginable then to say that Peters denyal of Christ with a curse was no Sin and Davids adultery Whether he that acknowledgeth Sin is in the godly or he that sayeth the foulest Sins are not Sins because forsooth they may be warring against them Answ. Herein hast thou abused me and sought to render me odious for that which is none of my saying touching the Children of God neither did I ever say that doing evil is not Sin nor yet grant thy universal Charge against Gods Children of coming short of good and doing evil nor that all that Paul writes of himself in that kind Was then his present condition Herein hast thou but begged the question and belied me in several things grounded upon thy misrepresenting our Principles before and so the Patron and vile defender of Sin thou art and not I who to defend it hast in general accused all God Children with Sin term of Life Neither did I ever say Peters denial of Christ and Davids adultery are no Sins as here I am belied and slandered by one in impudency and the spirit of lyes And as for Peter and David Where ever did they commit those Sins after they had repented of them Surely this instance is no proof that Gods Children must have Sin or dare Sin all thâ—ir life time How-be-it Paul was no defender of Sin in saying It s not I that Sin but Sin that dwelleth in me by all which Sin is still acknowledged to be Sin and when they knew the warring against Sin and the travel in order to obtain victory and coming into the state of the perfect Birth that 's brought forth in the Image of God they knew the difference between the two Seeds in them and a going on in the work of faith till the old man with his deeds were put off and the new man put on Pr. Neither that of 1 John 2. I write unto you that you may not sin prove that they were free of Sin so as they did not Sin for then why doth he subjoyn but if we sin we have an advocate with the Father thus you have wickedly separated what God hath joyned Christ was given for an advocate for the Sins of those whom John calleth little Children and his own which therefore were to be An. Johns writing unto them not to Sin surely was contrary to thy pleading for Sin for the very tenour of thy doctrine is contrary to his in this case And what is it God hath joyned that thou sayest we have wickedly sâ—parated Is it Believers and Sin or the advocate and Sin This were blasphemous to suppose or assert how grosly hast thou shewed thy selfe in this matter And surely thou hast drawn but a bad consequence from Johns saying If any man sin we have an advocate that therefore Johns and the little Childrens Sins were to be or that the Devils work in part remaines un-subdued in the Children of God for John doth not say little Children you have an advocate and therefore your Sins are to be or the Devils work must remain in you unsubdued all your life time but I write unto you that you sin not and if any man sin which is not every man is to Sin we have an advocate with the Father this is he that was to call and help them out of Sin and whose blood did cleanse from all Sin for John proposed a way and a remedy for them to bring them out of all sin but thou hast proposed a way tending to keep all people in Sin all their days who thus hast contended for the Devils work made such a sad consequence both of Johns words and of Christs being an advocate that therefore Sins are to be A monstrous inference Pr. That the Devils work in part remains un-subdued in the Children of God appears by that Paul saith to the Romans The God of peace shall tread down Satan under your feet shortly Rom. 16.20 An. That the God of peace should tread down Satan under their feet shortly is a proof against thy sâ—lf and contradicts thy Doctrine for the Devils work remaining in the Child of God for where Satan is troden down undâ—r foot dominion is obtained over him and his work Pr. We have peace our peace stands in our justification yet there are remains of Sin within us which we are to mourn for An. The Saints peace stands in Righteousness which is not consistent with Sin which is the cause of mourning where it is not done away but thou hast confounded the state of peace and the state of mourning like one ignorant both of true peace and of the effect of true sorrow and mourning Pr. We are all compassed about with infirmities and subject to passions as was Elias who had the Spirit of God and peace to and yet had matter of groaning even in those passions An. The Apostles instance of Elias being subject to like passions was in the case of praying for the sick to shew how prevailing the effectual fervent prayer of a Righteous man is Jam. 5.15 16. which proves quite against thee whilst thou accountest passions in the general as being Sins for passions are sufferings which may be of divers sorts as that of sickness and others as also it is not true that Elias was subject to that the Priests are whilest thou takest passions for
from good consequence from the Scripture indeed I have seldom met with any that have appeared so Impertinent and Ridiculous in their consequences as thou hast done in this matter though thou countest thy consequence of Divine Authority as well as express commands But they bear no such Authority with us who see thy perverting and abusing Scriptures to maintain and patch up a popish tradition and humane invention which thou hast no express command for and then thou hast in this doubly confuted thy self for is there some command of Divine Authority now which is not Scripture when before thou laid such a great stress upon Scripture and deniedst Revelation Immediate teaching c. from the Light within and hast dirided it under the name of Enthusiasme when now thou pleads for something being of Divine Authority which is not Scripture viz your sprinkling Infants which in Page 37. thou sayest brought to the Church is the ordinary way of putting on Christ and ordinary means for Salvation and sayest we are Baptized into Jesus Christ and his death from Rom. 6. and 3. whereas before the Scriptures were cryed up as the ordinary way and meanes c. But now that which no where the Scriptures repuires and that of Rom. 6 and 3. So many of us as where baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death how impertinent is this for thy turn as if sprinkling did Baptize Infants into the death of Christ or as if the Apostles and Believers then were so baptized when Infants as thou pleadest which is absurd to imagine and I should think thou canst not really intend such a thing in this proof as sprinkling Infants which thou wouldest also make us believe is a standing Ordinance of Christ to continue till the end of the world from Mat. 28. and Mar. 16.16 where they are commanded To teach all Nations baptizing them And He that believes and is baptized shall be saved But did thâ—y go to teach Infants of a week old Or Were such the Believers that were Baptized How blind sottish and ridiculous hast thou appeared in this matter as also in counting it one while the ordinary meanes for Salvation or that which Baptizeth into the death of Christ another while as in the thirty eight Page that which signifies our putting on Christ inward washing c. so here it doth but signify inward washing and therefore is not the putting on Christ not that which brings into the Church neither doth it really signify inward washing for thou speakest as that being washed all over best signifies our inward Renovation and one while pleads for this thy pretended great Ordinance as belonging to the Seed of Believers and of such as have received the Spirit another while the Children of which are prophane and drunkards that profess the Gospel whom thou sayest are in this sence accounted Believers and thirty ninth Page reckons it not needful for Ministers to be perswaded that they are Righteous so it appeares such Ministers as thou art will be easily satisfied for their own ends and upon slender grounds receive men as Believers if they do but profess the Gospel though they be drunkards and prophane and thus the Parish Priests of the Presbyterian gang have deceitfully daubed their hâ—arers and acted like hypocrites towards those whom they knew to be drunkards prophane and so really unbelivers unholy unrighteous c. yet if they will from their teeth outward say they believe and profess the Gospel though they be known to the contrary the Priest will not deny them their Seal of the Covenant to their Children though they deem them unholy also which other whiles they deem as such a sacred thing as onely belongs to the Seed of Believers and such as are within the Covenant And another sorry shift and come off in the thirty eight Page is concerning the Jewes that fell into gross sins who all drank of the Rock which was Christ from hence thou sayest that to profess Christ is called a drinking of Christ and where provest thou that Doctrine that to profess Christ is a drinking of Christ this is a very easie way thou hast prescribed for drinking of Christ if to profess him be it and then all that profess him drink of him by this Doctrine the falshood whereof we need not say much to But whereas thou sayest concerning those Israelites That ate the same spiritual bread and drank the same spiritual drink that drank of the Rock which was Christ how-be-it thou confessest they fell into gross sins as is cleared from the History of the Books of Exod. Levit. Numb Deuteronomy and 1 Cor. 10.1 2 3 4 5. and that many of them were Idolaters lusters after evill committed fornication tempters of God murtherers as thou sayest by all which thou hast sufficiently confuted thy self and given a deadly blow to thy own Cause and proved a falling away from Grace which before was an Arminian and Popish Doctrine with thee or Damnable Popery for Was not that spiritual meat and spiritual drink and that Rock spoken of saving Grace And thy saying for Infants Baptisme that it is the Seal of the Covenant and to be given to those that are within the Covenant but Are Drunkards prophane Persons and their Seed and whole Parishes within the Covenant Compare thy matter together Yet thou hast confessed the Spirit is the inward Seal but sayest Baptisme is the outward Seal and then instead of proof askest why may not the Covenant now have outward Seales joyned with the inward Seal of the Spirit How faintly comest thou off here And Where provest thou sprinkling Infants a Seal of the New Covenant or that the Covenant hath two such Seales as thou implyest and how knowest thou that its joyned with the inward Seal of the Spirit upon the Children of drunkards and prophane persons or on such as turn drunkards swearers c. who come under this thy Seal which hath no impression of Scripture or Divine Authority in it but now seeing that to gloss over thy groundless Tradition and Confusion uttered in mantaining it thou hast often made use of divers Scriptures which the Baptists were wont to bring for Baptizing or Plunging such as repent or believe I have not entered here into controversy with rhee about that point it being not thy own but onely thou wouldest make it serve for a cover yet when thou turnest Baptist and intendest to be real in pleading for Plunging believers thou mayest let me or us know and that point probably may be treated of as whether or no it be of necessity to Salvation and so of continuance to the true Church But however under the sence of the Baptisme of the Spirit which baptizeth into one body we do know present sattisfaction and do acquiess in our Spirits above the Traditions of men and Rudiments of the world E. J. Thy Book came but to my hands this summer it seems it was delayed in the hands of some otherwise I had answered it