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A43057 A discourse about the charge of novelty upon the reformed Church of England made by the papists asking of us the question, Where was our religion before Luther? Hascard, Gregory. 1683 (1683) Wing H1110; ESTC R13685 23,223 39

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later Fathers yet is was not positively affirm'd till about the year 1140. and not made an Article of Faith till the Council of Trent then indeed a good estate became a surer way to Heaven then then a good Life and Conversation The use of Indulgences was the Moral to the Fable of Purgatory and began to grow much what about the same time though it came not to the height and perfection till Pope Leo the Tenths time when Luther so stoutly opposed them then Heaven was set to Sale and the best Chap-Man was the greatest Saint though they boast of the second Council of Nice for the Antiquity of their Image Worship And if it will do them any good so they may of Simon Magus who was of an elder date and a very fit Patron of such an Opinion yet the Council of Frankfurt condemn'd it and the purest times did not so much as allow the making of Images And it was not the Catholick Doctrine in France for almost 900. years after Christ nor in Germany till after the twelfth Century then indeed such a Doctrin might be very proper when true Religion was turn'd into Pageantry and a form of Godliness The number of the seven Sacraments is now an Article of the Romish Faith yet the Council of Florence ended in the year 1439. was the first Council and Peter Lombard the first Man that precisely fixt that number That the Laity ought to receive the Sacrament of the Lords Supper only in one kind was never made an Article of Faith till the Council of Constance concluded in the year 1418. then indeed that Council with the greatest insolence and a direct Invasion of the Authority of Christ took the Cup from the Lay Mens mouths notwithstanding as 't was then acknowledg'd the Institution of Christ to the contrary and they may as well Christen the Laicks Children only in the name of the Holy Ghost leaving out the Father and the Son by the way of concomitancy it being as Lawful to Baptize as to Communicate by the halfs For what cannot such a pretended Power do The prohibiting of Priests to Marry was not in perfection as 't is now till Pope Gregory the Sevenths time Let them tell us where 't is said by Christ or his Apostles or any of the truly Ancient Writers of the Christian Church that Pennance is a Sacrament or that Auricular Confession is necessary to Salvation or that Prayers ought to be made in an unknown Tongue or that good works are strictly meritorious or where can they find they many Impieties and Absurdities of their Mass in those early times of Antiquity And since they are fond of asking us this Question we might ask them many more about the many Fopperies and Innovations in their Faith and Devotion and many they are and large is the invntory almost as many as are the Christian Truths in direct opposition to them or prevarication from them But they seem to confess the newness of their Religion when they arrogantly set up a Power in their Church to frame new Articles of Faith and many things only Opinions and Notions at first have grown up by degrees to Fundamental Truths and having once slipt into error they are bound to maintain it for the Reputation and Authority of of Holy Church And who knows how many of this Nature are upon the Romish forge ready to be put into their Creed and where must we end not till it be believ'd that consecrated Feathers and Holy Water can conveigh Divine Grace to us and drive away Wicked Spirits and the Weathercocks of our Churches be thought Pillars of it Would the Champions of Rome speak out they would tell us as their Eckius did the Duke of Bavaria that the Doctrine of Luther might be overthrown by the Fathers though not by the Scriptures 't is a plain confession that we have the truest Antiquity on our side and in the beginning it was not so But we add that we have the Fathers also on our side for otherwise what mean their Expurgatorian indices of the Fathers and other Ancient Writers but that they very well know that these are old Enemies to Pope Pius's new Creed and the Truth in them confounds their error Such an account as this about the Original and Progress of their new additions to the old Faith was convenient to be given not because the Nature of the thing did necessarily require it for it had been sufficient only to have prov'd that these Romish additions to the Christian Faith are contrary to the Word of God and no where to be found in any of the Divine Writings the only Infallible Rule of Faith and that they have no power of minting new Articles Fundamental to Salvation but because the Disciples of Rome so frequently ask us the Question and lay so much stress upon it if these are Innovations crept into their Church who was the first Author of them when did he begin in whose Reign and in what place did he live who did oppose him what company believ'd on him and what his new Opinions were as they instance in Arianism and other Heresies and because they Fancy we cannot make all these particulars so absolutely plain therefore they say we have falsly charg'd the Romish Church with new errors and that their Faith is truly Ancient and by an uninterrupted Succession of Infallible Bishops hath been conveigh'd down from Christ and his Apostles in its full purity to this present Age. To satisfy their curiosity the defenders of the reformation have done this but suppose they could not have been so particular about the birth of these new errors or had made some mistakes in the compass of time yet however the charge of Innovation against the Romish Church stands firm and good upon these accounts 1. That Reformation carries not so much a respect to the error when it began as to the error it self Not whether it be sooner or later but whether it be an error contrary to the True Christian Faith It may serve some honest purposes to know the who and the when the where and the how and other circumstances of its beginning and proceeding but the necessity of Reformation springs from the Nature of the error which came from the Invention of Men and not the Authority of Christ And matters not much whether Simon Magus who was contemporary with the Apostles was the first Author of it or Pope Hildebrand at so great a distance 'T is enough that we are certain and sure that the Popish Doctrins which we condemn by comparing them with the Scriptures are not Christ and his Apostles have none of their Images or Superscriptions upon them who only had full Authority to make them current and True Articles of Faith They have indeed Christianity among them but like Josephs Coat so dipt in Blood so over-lac't with Fopperies and undecent Ceremonies and so many new pieces stitcht to the old Cloth that the old Fathers if alive
True Church whether Visible or hid which this Question denys 3. This Question supposeth that the Roman Church cannot err but that it remain'd pure and undefiled as it came from the Hands of Christ through the many Centuries of years till it came to the times of Luther and from thence shall so continue till the Worlds end and therefore we made a false charge against them of corruptions in their Religion to excuse our Innovation But we have reason to conclude She hath foully err'd from the Faith and that more fatally and obstinately because She pretends She cannot err For upon what grounds doth the found her Infallibility Upon the Scriptures They are only so many dead letters till the breath of the Church doth give them life and they are then to do the Church a good turn and give her Infallibility which is such a cirle as makes Mens brains so giddly turning round in it that they scarce know what the Scriptures and what the Church do mean the places of Scripture to prove Infallibility are such which have only reference to the Apostles themselves their Doctrines or Confessions of Faith as Divine and Infallible but not to their pretended Successors Or else they are restrain'd not simply unto all Truth but only unto all Truth that is necessary to Salvation in which the Pope or a Council cannot err while they follow the Spirit of Truth in the Scriptures and not compel the Spirit and Scriptures to follow them For they do not irresistibly force the minds of Christians into Truth Or else relate only to the Catholick-Church and not to the particular Roman or else are applicable to private Assemblies and their Worship of God which no body but Quakers and Enthusiasts think to be Infallible And all the first Ages of Christianity and undoubted tradition never in the least imagin'd such an Infallibility as now the Church of Rome dreams of They are at War among themselves where this Infallibility is lodg'd either in the Pope alone or in a General Council alone or in both together the Pope Sitting in person there or by his Legates or it the Council confirm'd by the Pope till they agree among themselves and prove it better we say 't is no where plac't but in the Scriptures and they do not prove any other person or persons upon Earth to be Infallible in their determinations To say such an Infallible Judge of controversies to guide the Church is absolutely necessary and therefore Divine Providence hath plac't him some where or other and who but the Pope can be the Man Is only to prescribe methods unto God and teach him how to Govern his Church and not be thankful for the good old ways of Salvation and Peace Scriptures an honest Judgment with Divine asistance and humane means he hath chalkt out for us but contrive some new ones of their own Such Infallibility must be of no use to the Church of God for upon the Romish principles it cannot be known for the Pope before he be Infallible must be Bishop of Rome but the Sacrament of Order according to the Council of Trent receives it validity from the intention of the Priest that when he ordain'd him Bishop he did what the Church intended and who can tell upon these grounds what this supposed Priest was who gave this Order or dive into his thoughts and intentions which their Casuists confess may sometimes be very perverse But if there be this Infallibility at Rome why do not the Countries and Religious Orders in them still under their Dominion receive the Blessed fruits of it and still all the brawls and squables among themselves if his Holiness be at leisure and it be worth his while And why should not the Champions of Rome bend all their Power to prove this main point of Infallibility when all other controversies would fall under and submit unto its Power a compendious way to make the Christian World at Peace and Unity with its self But why need we labour to disprove the Popes Infallibility when themselves put their shoulders to it and do the work for us in disputing among themselves whether the Pope being an Heretick may be deposed by which Question they confess that he may fall into Heresy which is error of the highest Nature carrying Wilfulness and Obstinacy with it And accordingly these Infallible Men have been guilty of Heresies as Pope Honorius of Monothelitism and Liberius of Arrianism and the like and many of them liv'd most debauched lives and fatal to Christianity as Heresy and Fallibility and wherein providence is highly concern'd This Doctrine of Infallibility looks like a plain contrivance of the Romish Church having some way or other slipt into these gross errors from small beginnings and finding them not defensible by all the sleights and arts of their cunning heads are forc't to quit their hold and betake themselves to their common Sanctuary of Infallibility that let these things be what they will in Dispute between us and them they are sure they are great Truths by Vertue of Infallibility which is one of the Miracles of Rome which can change the Nature of things which may be true in England and the quite contrary at Rome as Father Cotton and other Jesuites affirm'd at Paris For it 's plain to all impartial Judgments that their Doctrine of Purgatory Transubstantiation and the like are not to be found in Scriptures are utterly unkown to the truly Acient Fathers and the eldest and purest times of Christianity and contrary to the reason of Mankind They may as well tell us that the City of Rome was never sack't and spoyl'd because some Flaterers humour'd her Pride and Arrogance calling her the immortal City and impregnable Rock as that these gross errors never invaded and ruin'd the Christian Faith because of the fine name of Infallibility which they arrogate to themselves And may as well put out our eyes and then bid us see if we can discover any errors in the Romish Church And St. Peter's being at Rome proves no more that he left Infallibility behind him than Consecrated Clouts sent from Rome that the Infant that wears them shall ever after be a firm defender of the Romish Faith 4. This Question will serve any Heresies or Errors that have got some Antiquity on their side against a Reformation If it be true in this case 't is so in all others and then what a shelter have they provided for all Heresies if they chance to live long to be safe and secure in and escape correction And there are many errors contemporary with Christianity it self in its first plantation in the World at least followed it very close at the heels such were the Ancient Gnosticks the Carpocratians or Ebionites the spawn of Magus and others who can plead great Antiquity on their side and as properly ask any Reformer of their Heresies where was his Religion before such a time as the inconstant World
would scarce know it to be the True Joseph's and would not trouble themselves so much to ask the time when this came to pass as lament the sadness of the change And the Apostles did not take so much care to tell the punctual time to the Disciples when Antichrist should discover himself as to make them stand vpon their guard to defend that Faith which he would invade where and whensoever he should come or whosoever he was 2. The difficulty of knowing the precise and punctual times when errors first began In many sorts of changes or Innovations 't is hard to know the nice time of their beginning but some latitude of Judging is allow'd and why not in things especially relating to Religion Are there not wild Opinions left upon Record among the Pagan Writers whose Authors are either unknown or which are falsly Father'd upon others and as hard to be known as the head of Nile Can the nicest Romanist tell us what Rabbi and in what Place and Age first superinduc't the several false glosses and senses to the Law of Moses yet our Saviour though he knew them well thought it sufficient to tell them that in the beginning it was not so and by comparing the Mosaick Religion it plainly appears they were new additions to the good old way And how many errors sprung up in the times of Christianity of whose original and other circumstances both the Romanists and our selves are yet uncertain And how many things of this Nature more near our own times are we puzled about and the difficulty of knowing them ariseth principally from this twofold account 1. From the subtilty of the contrivers of errors Which many times are the cunning and the Wise in their Generation which the necessity of their cause requires Truth being strong and error naturally weak and that Sly Deceiving Spirit lends it his utmost assistance to serve the design Such Men know how to disguise new falshoods in the old habits of Truth to make them look Ancient and Venerable they feel and know the temper of the Age and fit their Opinions to the Interest and Pleasure of it They prepare their errors to be received by degrees and one part must draw on the other and the whole must be insensibly swallow'd down So it hapned in the Adoration and Invocation of Saints and Images and the whole Structure of the Romish Religion which by several steps and in many Ages advanc't to its mighty bulk The cunning knew the consequences of their own positions how far they would reach which the Vulgar eye discern'd not they well foresaw how their Hey and Stubble variety of Phrases and changes of Syllables would at length fire the Foundation of Religion yet being invented at first by the Angelical Doctors and leaders of an Age for fame and reputation sake they and their followers first defended them for bare Truths afterwards for Sacred and Fundamental ones and things at first only Piously believ'd soon after have been adopted into a Creed And Men of rashness and Superstition only great in Place and Office have vented opinions whose fatal conclusions they at first we hope did not know yet the Cunning many times have hatcht what they left and improv'd in fatally to Religion the greatness of the Man whether an Innocent or an Hildebrand gave the error its first reputation and the cunning of others its Strength and Argument Many of the great and knowing heads of the World being corrupted unto the Roman side to defend those errors which had got footing in the Church But how can we unlock the secret methods of Rome or describe the ways and Policies by which the Mystery of Iniquity works Yet we are sure it 's carri'd on by the windings and turnings of the Serpent and Men that he imploys upon design to ruine truth for when the Apostle describes the sad Apostacies and Defections from the Faith they are said to be wrought by Men of Skill and Art who lye in wait to deceive 2. From the Passions and Infirmities of other Men. These give the false and busy deceiver and easy Victory When Opinions are so contriv'd as to serve the designs of Pride and Covetousness Ambition and Lust and other Vices they easily pass for mighty Truths their Original is not enquir'd into the Judgment is brid'd and they bear the Title of Ancient and Primitive or what the Deceiver pleaseth For these Passions have effeminated the mind made it soft and sluggish and any bold error shall slip down rather than be at the charge of a further search and enquiry to know whether these things be so or no. The Roman Religion being so well cut out in its different Doctrines to hit Mens Vices and Passions Gayety or Melancholy Enthusiasm or Fury Power or Design it 's no wonder it did prevail in a sly and silent manner interest having put out their Eyes this Kingdom came not with observation and the approaches of the Enemy in the Night of Ignorance viz. the darkness that could be felt of the ninth tenth and eleventh Century when all good Learning and Manners too were fast asleep the time when many of the new Devices of Rome were hammering out and the noise not heard were not discover'd till they had taken Possession and then by virtue of Power and great Names defended their title And their own Writers confess that many of the great Guardians of Faith the Popes of Rome were very Vicious and Illiterate Persons whose Vice and Ignorance kept them nodding while the little Thieves the Notions and Speculations of Men of Wit and Interest set open the Churches doors for the greater errors to come crowding in Our Saviour confirms the Truth of this when he compares his Church to a Field which had been sown by him and his Apostles with very good seed Wheat or some other Grain but while Men slept when Christians were grown Wicked and Careless Ignorant or Factious comes the Enemy and scatters the Tares and a new Harvest of Weeds Heretical Doctrines Superstitious Practices Foppish and Phantastick rites over-ran and choakt the purer Grain And the Apostle tells his Disciples that Men of dangerous principles abusing the Grace of God speaking Evil of Dignities and despising Dominions and denying Christ that bought them had crept in unaawares being well disguiz'd with Fine Names and Pretences while good Men were careless and sleepy And when most begin to broach new Errors and spread their Inventions for mighty Truths they do it with all the skill and artifice that so bad a design can possibly require Error and Innovation necessarily calling for the utmost Cunning and Slyness to its aid and assistance Religion therefore may easily suffer a considerable change yet good Men know not how neither the time nor Authors of it It being therefore only absolutely necessary for us to know that whensoever and howsoever these errors in the Church first sprung up that they were contrary to the Primitive Faith