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A85036 Truth maintained, or Positions delivered in a sermon at the Savoy: since traduced for dangerous: now asserted for sound and safe. By Thomas Fuller, B.D. late of Sidney Colledge in Cambridge. The particulars are these. I That the doctrine of the impossibility of a churches perfection, in this world, being wel understood, begets not lazinesse but the more industry in wise reformers. II That the Church of England cannot justly be taxed with superstitious innovations. III How farre private Christians, ministers, and subordinate magistrates, are to concurre to the advancing of a publique reformation. IIII What parts therein are only to be acted by the Supreme power. V Of the progresse, and praise of passive obedience. VI That no extraordinary excitations, incitations, or inspirations are bestowed from God, on men in these dayes. VII That it is utterly unlawfull to give any just offence to the papist, or to any men whatsoever. VIII What advantage the Fathers had of us, in learning and religion, and what we have of them. IX That no new light, or new essentiall truths, are, or can be revealed in this age. X That the doctrine of the Churches imperfection, may safely be preached, and cannot honestly be concealed. With severall letters, to cleare the occasion of this book. Fuller, Thomas, 1608-1661.; Saltmarsh, John, d. 1647. Examinations. Selections.; Fuller, Thomas, 1680-1661. Sermon of reformation. Selections. 1643 (1643) Wing F2474; Thomason .36[9]; ESTC R23497 61,984 103

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Spirit of God should not work in the soules of O unregenerate but expect an answerable Compliancy first who should be sanctified If God had expected any such Congruity in our businesse of salvation we had been unredeemed To speak P closer what Qualification did Queen Q Elizabeth expect when shee received a Kingdome warm from Popery What Qualification did R Henry the eight expect in his Attempt against the Supremacy when all his Kingdome was so universally conjured to Rome Such Moderation and Qualification is no other but a discreet taking so much as will serve your turne To the law saith the Scripture S and to the Test mony Moses wrought according to the Patterne so Salomon too godly Bucer makes it his worke to perswade King Edward to build up a perfect Church and he V prophesies sadly that he was afraid Popery would succeed because the Kingdome of England was so averse to the Kingdome of Christ And we know the Marian dayes followed me-thinkes we are too like his proprophesie and our W Marian times approach too fast TREATIS K You write of a Reformation of a Church like Bodin Would I wrote like Bodin though on the condition that I never wrote Answer to your Examinations Would we had some Bodins some such able States-men that they might improve their parts to advance an happy Accommodation betwixt our Sovereigne and his Subjects L You make it a worke of Policy not of Piety I make it as indeed it is a work both of Moses and Aaron wherein Piety is to be prefer'd and Policy is not to be excluded M Such Counsellours had Jeroboam and Jehu Sir shoot your Arrowes at me till your Quiver be empty but glance not with the least slenting insinuation at His Majesty by consequence to compare him to Jeroboam or Jehu for their Idolatry He knoweth how to bestow his Gold farre better and to leave the Calves for others N This Moderation and Qualification you speake of is not so consistent with spirituall Essenses and Operations This your line is not so consistent with sense as to need much lesse deserve a Confutation O If the Spirit of God should not have wrought in the souls of Unregenerate I wonder that allotting as you say but one afternoon for the whole work of your Examination you could spend so much time some minutes at least in such impertinencies P To speake closer And truly no more then needs for as yet you are farre enough from the matter But I will not confute what you confesse Q What Qualification did Queen Elizabeth expect She needed not to expect any when she had all Requisites to reforme Those who have such Qualification are not to expect but to fall a working those that want it are not to fall a working but still to expect Queen Elizabeth as supream in her Dominions had a sufficient calling to reforme nothing was wanting in her Onely her Memory doth still deservedly expect a more thankfull acknowledgement of her worthy paines then generally she hath received hitherto R What Qualification did Henry the eight expect in his attempt against supremacy He likewise had Qualification sufficient and therefore needed not to expect any as your following words doe witnesse wherein you say that All his Kingdome was universally conjured to Rome If it was his Kingdome then he had a calling if it was conjured to Rome then he had a cause to reforme and being the King was bound to be the Exorcist to un-conjure his Subjects from such superstition Yea had King Henry reformed as sincerely as he had a lawfull Calling thereunto his memory had not been constantly kept in such a purgatory of mens tongues for his lukewarme Temper even the most moderate counting him too good for to be condemned and too bad to be commended S To the Law saith the Scripture and to the testimony I will treasure up this excellent passage till a convenient time being confident that before the next Paragraffe is examined I shall appeale to these Judges and you decline them T Godly Bucer makes it his worke to perswade King Edward to build up a perfect Church The book of godly Bucer which you cite I have seene on the selfe same token that therein he makes a Bishops to be above Presbyters Jure divino You know Bucer wrote this worke as leading the front of his Opera Anglicana in the very beginning of King Edwards reigne before the Reformation was generally received in England and whilst as yet Popery was practised in many places And next to this his book followeth his gratulation to the English Church for their entertaining of the Purity of the Gospell so that what he doth perswade in the book you alleadge was in some good measure performed in that Ks. reign and afterwards better compleated by Queen Elizabeth V And he prophesieth sadly that he was afraid Popery would succeed Herein he took shrewd aime and it happened he hit right Such predictions are onely observed when afterwards they chance to take effect otherwise if missing the marke men misse to marke them and no notice at all is taken of them I know a latter Divine not the lowest in learning one of the highest in b zeale amongst them who foretelleth that Atheisme rather then Popery is likely to overrunne England Such Presages may serve to admonish not to afright us as not proceeding from a propheticall spirit but resulting from prudentiall observations But before we take our farewell of this book of Bucers it will not be amisse to remember another passage not to say presage in the same worthy worke that we may see what sinnes in his opinion were forerunners of ruine in a Kingdome The margin presents the Reader with the c latin which I here translate though the former part thereof be englished already in mens practise and the latter I feare will be englished in Gods judgements How horrible an affront doe they doe to the Divine Majesty who use the Temples of the Lord for Galleries to walk● in and for places so prophane that in them with their fellowes that prattle and treat of any uncleane and prophane businesse This sure is so great a contempt of God that long since even for this alone we have deserved altogether to be banished from the face of the earth and to be punished with heaviest judgements Such I am afraid will fall on our nation for their abominable abusing of Churches besides other of their sinnes and prophaning the places of Gods worship Not to speake of those and yet what man can hold his tongue when the mouthes of graves are forced open who in a place to vvhich their guilty conscience can point vvithout my pens direction did by breaking up the Sepulchers of our Saxon Christian Kings erect an everlasting Monument to their ovvn sacriledge Such practises must needs provoke Gods anger and now me-thinks I write of the Reformation of a Church like Bucer and not like Bodin W Me-thinks we are too
the truth yet he always either publikely defended Luther or privately concealed him till at last having outgrowne his fears he fell boldly to publike reforming As for the states of Zurich and Basil wherein Zuniglius and Oecolampadius lived as those Cities in one Relation are but members of the Helvetian Common-wealth so in another capacity they are intire bodies of themselves and in these states the Magistrates did stamp the Character of civill authority on that Reformation which these Ministers did first set on foot by their preaching But if any extravagant action of worthy men be tendred us in example our love to their persons binds us not to defend their practice much lesse to imitate it We crave liberty if denied will take it to leave them to themselves who if they had any especiall warrant to justifie their deeds will at the last day produce and plead it O There was a time when God took part of the spirit of Moses put it upon the Elders I will not dispute the manner how the spirit was taken from Moses perchance added to others without being substracted from him as a candle looseth no light by giving it to another But this is falsly al●eaged by you to intimate that sometimes inferiour Officers may make Reformations without the knowledge yea against the will of the supreame power For you must know that though the Sannedrin or seventy Elders were a constant Court and standing Counsell yet when there was a chief Governour they had recourse to him in actions of Moment Num. 27. 15 16 17. And Moses spake unto the Lord saying let the Lord the God of the spirits of all flesh set a man over the Congregation which may go out before them and which may lead them out and bring them in that the Congregation of the Lord be not as Sheep which have no Shepheard See that notwithstanding the power of the Elders stood still in full force determined not at Moses his death yet he accounted Gods people no better then Shepheardlesse till they had a power Paramount placed over them and a supreame above the Elders to guide and direct them SERMON Paragraffe 15. Mean time meer private men must not be idle but move in their sphere till the supream Power doth reform they must pray to inspire those that have power Secondly they must reforme themselves and their Families EXAMINER Stil you drive on your design thorow many plausible P insinuations you would keep private men doing but still doing in their owne Q circle I confesse I would not improve their interest too high nor too soon for the early settings forth of private men is apt to exceed into a tumultuary motion Yet I would not put them so far behind as they should like the lame the diseased at the poole of Bethesda waiting till a supreame R Power came downe amongst them There are many publike ingagements which they are capable on which providence will often guide them to as in finding S out-ways of facilitation advancement for the businesse besides some other arcana and secret T preparations we see every thing naturally is spirited with an instinct of aiding the whole V water and ayre will part with their own interest to serve the universall in the danger of a vacuity the very W Romans by a morrall principle would contend to be first in the service of their Country and it remains as a crime upon record that X Gilead abode beyond Jordan and that Dan remained in ships and Ashur abode in his breaches that is that they would sit downe encircled with their owne interest and affaires TREATIS P Still you drive on your designe thorow many plausible insinuations Not insinuations but positions and those no more plausible then profitable Truth hath a precious inside and withall a pleasing face Q You would keep private men doing but still doing in their circle And good reason too for if they be out of their circle they are very troublesome spirits to conjure downe againe R Not like the lame at the poole of Bethesda waiting till a supreame Power If God in his Word will have it so they must wait Better to lye still in the porch though not cured then to rush headlong into the poole and be drowned S Providence will guide them in finding out-wayes of facilitation I protest against all out-wayes if they be any way different from the high-road of the King of Heaven Reformation however must come lawfully and if it will not come easily let it come hardly we will tug at it with our prayers which are alwayes best at a dead lift and will sweat but not sin to obtain it Nor can any better facilitation for privat men be found out then for every one of them to reform themselves How doth an Army of ten thousand men almost change their postures from East to West in an instant because every one turneth one and so soone would the work be done in a publike Reformation if particular persons would take care for their private amendment T Besides some other arcana and secret preparations Good Sir play faire and above board The surface of the earth is wide enough for us both creep not into crannies to put me to the pains of Pioners to mine for your meaning I know the secret of the Lord is with the righteous but then it is such a secret as being concealed from prophane persons is revealed in the Word This your expression if cleer from fault is not free from just suspition for hereby you buz into peoples hands and such tinder I tell you is ready to take fire that there are some strange unknown misteries of Religion lately communicated to some private men Strange that others of the same forme with you for learning and Religion should know no such secrets except you have received from Heaven some expresse packet of intelligence You might have done well to have told us what these arcana are unlesse being of Heavens close Committee you be bound to secrecy Meane time I will be bold to tell you that if these secrets differ from Gods will in his Word they are depths of the Divell and misteries of Iniquity V We see every thing naturally is spirited with an instinct of ayding the whole water and ayre will part with their owne interests to serve the universall in the danger of a vacuity I distinguish betwixt naturall Agents and voluntary rationall and Christian Agents Naturall Agents goe the neerest way to their owne home their Center except countermanded to avoid a vacuity which being yeelded to necessarily inferres a destruction of the whole In such a case heavy bodyes have from God a dispensation yea command to ascend light bodies to descend forgetting their particular propensity to remember the publike good according to the words of the Psalmist He hath made a decree which they shall not passe But voluntary rationall and Christian Agents are to regulate their actions
preferment now disuse them in despaire thereof not to say some of them are as violent on the contrary side and perchanee onely wait the Word of command from the prevalent party to turne Faces about againe In briefe seeing generally these Ceremonies are left off it seems neither Manners nor Charity alwayes to lay that in mens dishes which the Voider some pretty while since hath cleane taken away Say not that these Innovations are now rather in a swound then dead likly to revive when cherished with the warmth of Authority seeing His Majesty hath often and fully proffered that whatsoever is justly offensive in them shall be removed and pitty it is but that the rest should by the same lawfull power be re-enforced But enough hereof and more perchance then will please the Reader though lesse could not have satisfied the Writer if I have contented any well If I have displeased all I am contented B. Therefore goe not on to perswade such a Fundamentall Integrity and Essentiall purity Indeed the pains may well be spared for all wise men are sufficiently perswaded thereof already For if hereby you meane and I would faine learne what other sence your words are capable of that the Church of England hath not as yet been Entire in the Fundamentals and Pure in the Essentials to Salvation We all are in a wofull Condition Have we lived thus long in our Church now to dye eternally therein Seeing none can be saved therein if it be unsound in the Fundamentals of Religion must the thousand six hundred forty third yeer from Christ's birth be the first yeer of the nativity of the Church of England from which she may date her Essentiall purity Sir I could at the same time childe you with anger bemoane you with pitty blush for you with shame were it not that I conceive this passage fell unawares from your pen and that you intend to gather it up againe C. You know in what a case that Church was when shee thought her selfe rich and full and glorious Good Sir accept of my service to stay you or else run on till you be stopt by your owne wearinesse Our Church never brag'd thus her selfe nor any other for her whose faults we have already freely confessed yet maintained her to be sound in all Fundamentals and pure in all Essentials SERMON Paragraffe 12. A thorow Reformation we and all good men desire with as strong affections though perhaps not with so loud a noyse as any whatsoever EXAMINER If your thorow Reformation in this page be compared with your fourteen fifteen sixteen seventeen pages where you have bound it up with so many D Restrictions the fallacy will soon appeare You would smoothly tax some Brethren for clamour E and noyse in their desires after Reformation Indeed if you could perswade the Prophets of God into silence or slight endeavours halfe your Designe were finished but they have a Fire which flames into stronger expressions If the zeale of the Prophets and F Martyrs had given no further testimony to the truth then their own Bosomes we had not had at this day such a cloud of witnesses you know these loud importunities awaken and hasten men unto that holy G Businesse you would so faine retard If you think it your vertue that you can be silent in the midst of our importunities and loud cryes after Reformation I am sure 't is your policy too for should you make too great a noyse after it you might be heard H to Oxford and perhaps you are loath to speake out till you see further TREATIS D. Fourteen fifteen sixteen seventeen pages where you have bound it up with so many Restrictions Indeed I bound Reformation with Restrictions but such as are Girdles to strengthen it not fetters to burthen it and thereupon no fallacy but plaine dealing will appeare And if those pages you instanee in be guilty of any such fault no doubt when your examination doth come to them you will presse it home and I shall be ready to make my best defence E. You would smoothly tax some Brethren for clamour If any be faulty herein they deserve not onely to be smoothly taxed but sharply reproved For clamour as the English word is taken in Scripture sounds in a bad sense as arguing an ill tempered Spirit with a mixture of pride and impatience And as Reformation ought to be prosecuted and sought after with holy and zealous importunity farre from all Lethargicall dulnesse and carnall stupidity so it must be done with a quiet and compose soule a grace commended by the Apostle Now grant none to be guilty yet seeing all are subject especially in tumultuous times to clamour and passionate extravagancies my gentle Advertisement by the bye could not be amisse F If the zeale of the Prophets and Martyrs had given I thanke you Sir for mentioning the Martyrs They were the Champions of passive obedience and the lively Patternes of that holy Temper I now described Men of a meeke and quiet disposition not clamorous though since their death the noyse and fame of their patience hath sounded aloud thorow the whole world to all Posterity And I pray God in continuance of time the very Doctrine of Martyrdome be not Martyred G That holy Businesse you would so faine retard I appeale from your hard Censure to the Searcher of hearts who one day will acquit my innocence and punish your uncharitablenesse except it be first pardoned upon your repentance H For should you make so great a noyse you might be heard to Oxford I care not how farre I be heard nor which way to Oxford and beyond it to Geneva or to Rome it selfe Truth is Calculated for all meridians But speake not slightingly of Oxford it is ill wounding of a Court and a Camp and an University and all in one word I And perhaps you are loath to speak out till you see farther I see too farre already namely that ruine and desolation is likely to follow except Moderation be used on both sides If you meane till I see farther into His Majesties pleasure of Reforming what shall be found amisse his unfained desire thereof doth already plainly appeare But if you meane till I see farther into his successe know Sir my Religion observes not the tides of His Majesties Fortune to ebbe and flow therewith Where Conscience is the Fountaine the stream keeps the same height SERMON Paragraffe 12. But with this Qualification that by thorow Reformation we meane such a one whereof we are capable pro statu viatorum made with all due and Christian Moderation EXAMINER You write of the Reformation of a Church like K Bod●● not like Bucer you make it a worke of Policy L not of Piety of Reason not Divinity Such Counsellers had M Jeroboam and Jehu and they made a Church as unhappy as a Kingdome miserable This Moderation and Qualification you speak of is not so consistent with spirituall Essenses and N operations If the