Acts above could be done rightly without Faith what hindred the Pharises acceptance For who did them better then they in the outward appearance But as our Righteousness is to exceed theirs so if those outward acts be done better by us then them they must be done in the Faith in the sense of Gods Presence and Power that workes both the will and deed that 's done to his Praise and this all Formalists as well as the Pharises wanted to do them in and they must needs want that Faith that gives acceptance with God who conclude those things are not acts of Religion and Conscience But to distinguish things into Civil and Religious for this purpose that we might perform what you are pleased to call Civil without taking notice of Conscience which being directly to please and humour you in your Opinions and Judgements what is clearer then that the Form you are setting up and striving for to the loss of Charity and good will is really to be and is a Form without Power Seeing according to your distinction it may very easily be performed without Faith and Conscience On this account pray consider if you may not as justly be withstood or turned from as those the Apostle speaks of We intreat you to be serious in this matter while Balm in Gilead may be had to heal our wounds and bruises that is to cure our Divisions and remove our Dissatisfaction But further You say did those things of difference require Faith or did they appertain to Worship as if you were obliged to Worship God only in some Place Time Gesture Raiment with such Words or Forms of speech c. your Plea and Objection was good page 4 Answer True Worship cannot be imposed for 't is a serving God according to his mind in which Mans prescriptions have no place because such the Father only seeks out to serve him and it appears that Gospel Worship ought to be constant for such as are Joyned unto the Lord are one Spirit and they that deny a constant Serving and Worshiping of God it is because they do not know this Union of being Joyned unto the Lord in one Spirit how ever the worship you mean and intend is constant or it is not for we would by no means mistake you if not constant it relates to our Publick Assemblies only and so to Preaching and Praying and such other Publick acts as is done and performed at those certain times and Places and because those things that is the present occasion of difference in a strict sense do not relate to those Publick acts for Worship in our Assemblies therefore in your sense there can be no Imposition upon Conscience by Imposing those things but then pray observe what follows and that is that there is no serving of God but in our Publick Assemblies nor if you please use of Conscience but when so met together On this account Pray why do you refuse to put off your Hats to use the word you to a single Person to pay Tithes and several sorts of Taxes for according to this Notion of Worship and Service those things are Civil and not Religious we do not mention those things as indifferent but to shew how by indeavouring to avoid one error you run into another But if we are to Worship and Serve God constantly as we say we are we ought to wait to know and be sensible of him every where and upon all occasions but we say this cannot be done without Faith for without Faith we cannot be sensible of his Presence as the Governour of our actions nor can our deeds be done or wrought in him without it well then if we are thus to serve God and this cannot be done without Faith then we say if the thing you contend for was really good we must if we serve God first know them to be good thus on this foot in your own sense our Plea and Objection is good because the Thing in Difference relates to the Service of God You explede in other Societies the impossing Time Gesture and Raiment in the Worship of God but pray consider if you are not doing something of the same Nature for you must grant that the Worship and Service of God ought to be constant or it ought not if it ought not to be constant you ty it to some certain times and Places and herein agree with those you reprehend but if you allow it constant the impossition of new things under this Notion of Civil is out of doors But further this Form that you 'r Imposing with all the reason and force you have is that to a Society that a Garment is to particular Persons it is true and as truly granted without any reserve that what is simple is needful in both cases for we can not be well without a Garment whilest cloathed with those Houses of Clay neither as we are particular Persons nor as a Religious Society but superfluity is dangerous on both hands for if ever the mind get out to think and conclude that it deserves honour and respect for the Garment for the Form's sake in comes those additions of superfluity from hence on a Religious score comes in Opinion and Ceremony and this to make it more Glorious and Beautiful that it may have more respect and acceptance both with God and Man and thus both on a Religious score as well as on a Civil Men grow proud of that which shews their Poverty and rich in conceit by trusting in that which at the same time demonstrates their want did they understand or rightly consider of things for as clothing to our bodies shews our want and not our perfection even so do Forms in Religion shew our fall and want and therefore the more we seem to need and are burthened with Ceremony the more our want and misery appears if we could but see it For this cause where this is truly seen and considered such content themselves with what is simply needful knowing by how much as they stand in need of little by so much they come nearer their first being and then such in stead of adding of Opinion and Ceremony to perfect them do wait to have such things fulfill'd as much as may be for Righteousness sake on this account we way safely say the less Ceremony the more truth and the less noise about the Formallity of Form the more hopes such wait for the knowledge of God in Christ which is life Eternal but to apply the matter the difference you make with us is not about what is simply needful to Society for you grant we are one in judgment with you in the Worship and Doctrines of truth and owns both the end and means of good Order Page 11 then pray consider If it be not hard for you to differ with Us about that which neither relates to the Worship nor Doctrines of Truth In short generally speaking you have allowed us formerly as true Worshipers of God without this
this Age and who certainly are those Eminent Instruments and what this Dispensation is that you intend that so when this Age is over and those Instruments are all dead then People may prepare to watch for the Masters coming to change this Dispensation all this and more is the Genuin Consequence of those Positions and assertions which we must say is as carnal as they 'r presumptious and is a plain deferring of the Masters coming and what followes but what ever did A beating of your fellow Servants that this is truly the condition and danger of all those that assert as above own or stand by it is to us an undoubted truth and therefore in order to awaken some and forwarn others we can do no less then assert that he that is come is yet to come that so by a true watching and waiting for his coming some may avoid that great danger those are in that deferr it And indeed this presumption that the Dispensation is not to be changed in this Age is both your danger and mistake for this makes the Dispensations of God to lie chiefly in outward Modes of Worship in outward Forms of Discipline and in the Government of Men and this in stead of leading the mind to God leads from him because in stead of waiting for the Kingdom and Government of Christ and the increase of it which is Spiritual this sets up what is outward and Carnal which may be altered and changed from one thing to another and yet the mind unregenerated and therefore those dispensations of God that convert the soul to God are Spiritual and are the same now they have been through all Ages of which that unto Israel and the compleating of that Dispensation by our Saviour is a true and perfect Figure to us and all men but seeing you say there is to be no change of Dispensation in this Age Pray when is it that you intend to Present those that depend on you as chast Virgins to Christ That they may be married unto him for as this ought to be so certainly you will allow in that State such may simply depend on him it does not appear you intend it as long as you live because you say there is to be no variation or changing of Dispensation in this Age and when may it be expected then For those that succeed you in the Government may as justly deny a change of Dispensation in their Age as you do in this and to be sure they 'l be as unwilling to allow of it as you for why They must bear the Image that you beget and as they will make you their Authority they will build on you as it has been through all the Reformations and then as they are not like to know so much as some have done in this Age they 'l be but bigotted the more for indeed where there is not a constant waiting for the Lords Coming to do what he pleaseth with us a false rest is set up and such become as much as in them lyes the limiters of God and good Men and the preventers of the further discoveries of the mind of God but if we come to be a Figure of the Universal Church of which Christ our Lord is truly head we must know a change and alteration of the Dispensation by which this striving for Mastership and Ceremony may cease and that in our Age for 't is certain that Gods appearance is twofold to Man in the work of restoring Man unto himself and if we be of Spiritual Israel we must know a coming through the work of a first Covenant before we can know the Second whereupon it follows as there must be a Preparation before there can be a Choice there is a Legal Dispensation to be known or passed through before that of the Gospel can be fully understood 'T is true if we could consider rightly that the end of all Gods dealing with men is to bring them to himselfe and secure them for the future against the attempts of the Enemy we might call or esteem all Gospel according to Address to Protestants Page 82 where 't is said the Law is the Gospel begun the Gospel the Law fulfilled or finished they cannot be parted by the word parted we conceive he means the Gospel cannot come or be witnessed except it begin in the Law for when we consider that all men in their first State are concluded under sin and that in the work of regeneration there is trouble before peace and condemnation before Justification and that no suffering for the present seems Joyom then may we say those dispensations of Law and Gospel first and second Covenant are now in being and as distinguishable to the Spiritual Traveller as ever 'T is true Christ our Lord is Heir of all things but our first knowledge of him is in his descending where he devests himself of his glory in this he condescends to lay hold of us or otherwise it were impossible for us to apprehend or lay hold of him you know 't is written the holy Spirit was not yet given because that Jesus was not yet glorified and yet he both had Disciples and they was taught of him nay when raised from the dead and they were still taught of him they had not yet received the Holy Spirit for he was not yet ascended but when the Power from on high came upon them the true witness that Jesus was glorified then they received the Holy Spirit that was to abide with them But to apply it if our first knowledge of Christ be in his descending then must we know him ascend where he was before or the work cannot be compleated but this cannot be without a change of dispensation thus instead of denyit we ought to wait for it Again when we consider that since transgression at least Man is made under a Law wrote or to be wrote in the hearts or minds of all Men of which that wrote in stone to Israel was but as a Figure and that by this Law came the true knowledge of 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 this Ministration cannot pass away unfulfilled therefore does our Lord descend to assist us to fulfil this dispensation as a Servant and differeth not from a Servant tho he is Lord of all you know he was made under the Law to Israel that he might redeem them truly prepared by it from under the Law and he is now as well as then a Minister of the Sanctuary and then must we not know him first under a Legal dispensation as well as then For that dispensation given to Israel that he then fulfilled in the flesh was never given to us and as that was not to continue it is the Substance of that which remains that we are to inquire out God appeared by his servants and by his Son to the house of Israel after the flesh the first was to prepare the latter to perfect and those that are not faithful in the first part now can not
to outward Society is a comprehensive Church and cannot shut out for Opinion which deserves your most serious consideration in relation to your Brethren at least But to apply what has been said to our case as it is sure that every Man that comes truly to be reconciled unto God must know the dispensation changed in his Age so 't is as certain that what is to be done in one Man ought to be done in all Men and must be done in all that comes truly to know the new and heavenly Man put on but seeing this cannot be done in all at one time as we are a Society it must at least be done in our Elders or Leaders or 't is not possible that we should be as a Society a true Figure of the Universal Church of God For as are the Elders or Leaders so is the People in a great measure that depend on them and therefore if our Leaders have narrow Spirits and wrong Notions of things the People must be so too whereupon in followes if our Leaders deny a change of Dispensation and cease to travel the People must needs do so too and therefore whilest our Elders and Leaders know not a Change of Dispensation in this Age which is a coming through the mistery of Christs Death and a dying with Christ to the flesh by which the beauty of External things passeth away in the true Ministration of Life as such cannot be dead with Christ to the Rudiments of the World they will be burthened with their Opinions and Ordinances and therein burthen others We intreat you to Consider of this for it was and is on this very foot that the greatest part of all Religious Societies have fail'd wherein their Leaders and Elders were allwayes most in fault For they could allow of no variation or change of Dispensation but what they made themselves and is not this matter of fact and therefore allwayes missed of the mind of God both as he appear'd by his Son and by his Servants it has been thus through all the Reformation and was thus in that great example of Israel for thô they received the Law to prepare as a Schoolmaster to bring unto Christ and did pretend to look for him yet could not allow of the change of Dispensation that he brought so sticking in their own Opinions and Judgements of things in stead of receiving him that should have perfected the work they had known begun they rejected him for they said had any of the Rulers that is Elders and Leaders believed But the People that knew not the Law were accursed And those were such as seem'd to have a great esteem for the Law the first part of the work yet taught for Doctrines the Commandments of men by which the People were also misled that depended on them and whilest you deny a change of Dispensation in this Age 't is clear you stick in your own Opinions and Judgments and are as truly in danger to miss the mind of God and mislead others as any that have been before you But observe for you know or at least may that whilest our Lord was in the flesh he was tyed unto the Jews or however did appear so and here he seem'd straitned or limited with respect to the rest of Mankind but when he had fulfilled the work given him to do as he dyed to the flesh of the Jew he became universal giving Gentiles as well as Jews an enterance unto the Father by one Spirit and of twain made one New Man and cast off the seed of Abraham after the flesh and chused his seed after the Spirit from hence he took off all confidence in the flesh for if the Jews had not herein to trust surely no Society now can have wherein to trust on that account But the Apostle tells us if the casting off the Jews was the riches of the World what should be their receiving but as life from the dead And which way could this great benefit come unto Mankind in their receiving 〈…〉 more then in this that as then they should have known true reconciliation unto God they would have been acquainted with the various States that are to be passed through before that can be known and then as they would have been truly fitted to have informed Mankind of the different effects of each so their credit with all that had received Christ would have given them that advantage to have been believed then should we have been truly informed that generally speaking the work of God in restoring Man unto himself was really twofold and that the first part tho a glorious work yet it was but to prepare and not to perfect and as it was but to prepare there was a necessity to wait to know the Dispensation changed For had the Jews as a Society received the Messiah they would then have known him to inlarge them in the Spirit by taking away the confidence in the flesh then with one voice they would have informed us that whilest they continued in the first part of the work thô it was glorious yet their Spirits was narrow and shut up to the rest of Mankind and their thoughts was childish and partial toward God for they did conclude that because God had done so much for them he had either forgotten or rejected all others but receiving the Messiah as they would have known the Dispensation changed so they would have been inlarged in Spirit then would they have informed us that God was God of the Gentile as well as of the Jew and that as he was Lord over all so he was rich unto all that in truth called upon his Name this would have mortified and slain all our strife about Forms carnal Ordinances Opinion and Ceremony but alas in stead of coming as a Body or Society from the Form to the Power coming out of or through the first Covenant Works and from under a Legal Dispensation wherein the confidence in the flesh stood as well as the warrs and strife into the Second Covenant in to the ministration of Life where the good will and Peace is that so they might have been a perfect Figure of the work of God with Man and therein been the great example to the World as well of Gods Love and good will as of that Righteousness and Justice which he required they stuck in the first part of the work and so that Elect and Pretious Stone that laid in Sion became to them a stumbling Stone and Rock of Offence for tho they seemed to own and magnifie Moses and the Prophets dispensation which God owned and appointed yet not owning the Change of Dispensation in the Messiah they became as a Sect too narrow in their Minds and Spirits to make known the good unto Mankind intended in their chusing for the casting them off singly was not the riches of the World but because they stuck in the flesh and could not follow the Lord fully as their Father Abram did to manifest
arises nothing can justifie the proceeding on your part but a necessity for the thing For if this of Necessity be not consider'd in our case as abounder a door is opened to fill us with Opinions and Ceremony seeing there wants nothing to introduce them but a specious Pretence which never fail'd to wait on such as affect Government or reflect on their own abillities for it Now as there can be no necessity for Womens constant Meeting for Government for you to claim Power under the Notion of Elders to bring in to the Society against the minds of your Brethren such things as in truth there is no Necessity for this we say is a violence done to our Constitution as we imbodied a free and voluntary Society and is also against the truth of our Principle and Opinion First that it is a violence to our Constitution is clear for you know in our coming forth we did not choose any Elders to depend on nor indeed could we according to our Profession for as we asserted that Christ our Lord was come in Spirit to teach and govern us a teacher that as he could not be removed into a corner so he was only sufficient And therefore the preheminence was to be given to him in all things Thus it would have been a gainst his Honour and the truth of what we professed to have chosen any Man to have depended upon when Christ was come in Spirit to teach and govern to depend on Man to do it was to neglect the Fountain and chuse the Cistern therefore as we neither did nor could according to the truth of our Principle chuse any Men to depend on under any Name or Notion whatsoever for any to chuse or Impose themselves upon Us is wrong to Us and a violence offered to our Constitution For in short observe it is really Ignorance of the sufficiency of Christ to chuse any Man so much as Mentally to depend on But 't is Slavery to have others to chuse for or Impose themselves or their choice upon Us. You know as Christ our Lord was own'd to be come in Spirit to teach and Govern us we were to bring all our thoughts words and deeds to him that we might know the truth in what we thought said or did for we were not to be our own but his and as we were to bring our own words and deeds to him certainly we were to bring the words and deeds of all others to him in which we were to be concernd For as we could not know the truth of what we did our selves but by the testimony or approbation of his Spirit so 't is beyond contradiction we can not know the words and deeds of others to be from the truth any other way thus conviction or perswasion brought us together and that must be preserved still inviolably or we can not continue a free People examination of what we were to receive from others was truly asserted as our undoubted right in our coming forth and as the truth is but one the reason is the same now as well as then therefore to Impose an Eldership upon Us under any pretence whatsoever as it destroyes or takes away the Liberty of Examination 't is a violence done to our Constitution Indeed what is brought in by violence must needs be upheld by force or otherwise it will dye and come to nothing of it self thus the force and strife you have used to uphold what you have brought in by violence demonstrate you more wrong then any argument we can use when 't is but seriously considered that it is not Truth but Error that loses by tryal nay the truth only gains the most when freely examined and tryed and error loses most that way what can discover your wrongness more then the denying a free Examination For where that is taken away the prevailing of those things cannot be owing to the truth but the force and conquest of Men which as it is directly contrary to a free examination and choice so 't is beyond contradiction a violence done to our Constitution as we are a free and volluntary Society confessing but one Lord and head And as the bringing into our Society things for which there appear no necessity and requiring complyance under the notion of Eldership is a Violence done to our Constitution so 't is against the truth of our Principle Profession For you know the Lord from Heaven the second Adam the quickning Spirit the true Light that lighteth all Men coming into the World is Professed to be our foundation and asserted by us to be sufficient to lead into all truth all that truly adhere to him Now it must follow whilest we thus confess him that we truly adhere to him or we do not if we truly adhere to him we must according to the truth of what we profess know his sufficiency and where the sufficiency of Christ our Lord is truly known such can not depend on Man no 't is Impossible as in the Natural Figure the Moon and Starrs do shew us light but 't is in the dark 't is in the night therefore when the Sun comes thô it does not take away that light which the Moon and Stares have as to themselves yet to us it takes it away so that it is impossible thô we had a mind to depend on that Light or have any benefit from it and we are sure the Sun of righteousness as he arises in the Soul doth as much fulfill the Service and transcend the light of the Instrument therefore on this foot we are to call no Man Doctor Master Father or Elder on Earth by way of Preheminence for our dependance because one is our Doctor Master Father and Elder in Heaven and all such as are thus taught of him are Brethren Christ and his Disciples in the dayes of his flesh are a true Figure of this for he chose his Disciples they did not chuse him and as he chose them out of the World they was simply to depend upon him not one upon another therefore when they thought of depending one upon another by consulting who should be the greatest amongst them our Lord corrected their mistake and in them yours if you lay claim to the like choice by telling them the Elder should be as the Younger and he that rul'd as he that served nay he that would be the greatest among them must be Servant to all the rest then not Lord or Master to Impose upon the rest and as he told them they should call no Man Master Doctor or Father so he forbad them to be called soe and we are sure it was the thing as well as the Name that was intended whereupon it followes that to seek this Preheminence by desiring this dependance under the Notion of Eldership as it is contrary to the truth of our Principle and Profession so 't is against the very Sence and meaning of the Command of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ For this is
can have no higher Original then that of Mans reason which as it is subject to be short vary and miscarrie such things as those ought not to have been brought in as the Lawes of the Medes and Persians but Cautiously and by way of Probation Therefore having now the proofe of the evil consequence of being Possitive where at most you ought but to have recommended You would do well to Repeal or at least suspend next Meeting what has been found so fatal to the Unity desired otherwise you may shew more Power to Rule then prudence to Govern What you have said to others in Address to Protestants page 62 to 92 both what should be made Terms of Communion and what should not deserves your most serious Consideration for certainly we want nothing of what you say there is sufficient for Communion and if so it is unreasonable to shut us out for want of that which ought not to be made such and that in your own sense pray be consistent for that passage in Page 93 deserves not only your Consideration but Application and that is if we consider the matter well I fear sayes our Author it will be found that the occasion of disturbance in the Church of Christ hath in most Ages been found to lie on the side of those that had the greatest sway in it which in our Age is but too true We observe this Epistle differs much from other Books writ on this Subject and allowed by the same Authority if we should Confront this with them they would be like Babel Indeed whilest the same thing is pretended 't is true we are willing to search to the quick but as we would not make the breach wider then needs must we shall not at this time compare them together hoping how ever that the softness of the Stile of this bespeaks a dislike at least of former severities what is right we are willing to acknowledge and shall as readily note What is wrong concluding it is dangerous to endeavour to heal our hurt slightly and how ever our endeavour may succeed or be resented we can in our Defence say that not only our Arms but our Hearts are open and free to receive you and what you say as we meet it in the truth and you in the Spirit and power of our Lord Jesus Christ and can add sincerely that our desire to seek and find that seemless Garment of Our Lord you speak of and not only find it but that we might have it put on as in our beginning whilest Travellers together in Spirit for the true Rest which so many have set out to find but miscarryed but as this Seamless Garment stands not in Identity of an Opinion nor in the Unity of those Formallities of Form which respect more the manner of doing of a thing then the thing it selfe therefore all the Builders that have sought it here have erred and will still err as they thus seek it For as Truth is contrary to Error so is Gods way to Mans in this matter as our own Appollogies for Liberty do abundantly shew Now if the Unity to be sought for stand not in Opinion nor in those Formallities of Form as above it can only be found in the Spirit where there is a sincerity to God this Our Lord owns when ever 't is according to the degree of Light afforded And that is it which should be seriously enquired after and this you can hardly deny Us upon your own Concessions in this Epistle if you are real other if you deceive Us. You confess Page the 2 that we are one with you in Judgement in the Worship and Doctrine of Truth c. Now if by Worship you mean a true serving of God and if by Doctrine of Truth you intend as you ought what concerns Godliness it can hardly be but you must allow Us found in the Faith and Conscientious in what we doe for 't is impossible we should be faithful in the greater Things and false in the less on this account you ought to allow our reason or indulge us and therefore considering this and several other confessions in this Book may we not hope for the future that Dissenters and such as are dissatisfied may meet with a more favourable aspect from you and not only their seperate Meetings Visited in Love by you but your Meetings free and open in your minds and behaviour to such as come in Love and good will to Visit You tho in some things disatisfied with your proceedings for what can keep up the Difference more then your strangeness and how can it tend to accommodation the Thing you pretend to desire and seek Or how can it be Truth or like it to keep up this Difference and distance to Severities if not some time to rudeness and that with such as agree with you in your own sense in all the Essentials of Religion and truly serve God for any thing you know or can prove to the contrary Pray consider of it But to proceed You speak of the Government to remain in the hands of the Eldership but if Our Lord makes this Eldership does he not also make the submission that 's necessary for we will say we are for good Order and if the Elders set us a good example of humility and selfe-denyal by which we find it is not themselves they Preach but Christ and his Government they desire should be set up and not their own We can readily give them double Honour by following them as they follow Christ and we are sure none of you ought to desire more Now if We are only to follow you as you are the followers of Christ we ought to be sensible of it and that must be either by an outward Rule or by an inward if the first set it forth if the latter stay till we are convinced or perswaded this is fair here blind Obedience is excluded and it ought not to be denyed on this foot we inquire how we must know this Eldership on whose Conduct we may safely rely for where there must be a dependance there ought to be a certainty pray mind that to us then as a free and voluntary Society there seems but two wayes to know Eldership that is chiefly after the Spirit or after the flesh that is after an inward or an outward way now if we must know our Eldership after the Spirit then indeed no matter of your setting them forth for as we are not to believe every Spirit a liberty of Examination is reserv'd and where that ought to be a choice must be allowed on this Foot it follows beyond contradiction we are not Obliged to new things but as convinced or perswaded and as this is according to Gods dealing with us in our Spiritual travel so it agrees with our Imbodying as a free and voluntary Society and grant but this great Truth and Ancient Testimony and as it may prevent further disatisfaction which to us seems greater then you
or raise any above it in the eyes of others but only that confidence in the flesh wherein so many have stuck and miscarried might be wasted and consumed that so the Lord our God might be exalted over all for he that is come is yet to come and as His goings forth hath been from Everlasting they still continue a Riddle to the Rulers and a Mistery to all that is but born after the flesh and what is flesh in a Religious sense but Form the external part of Religion for all that stick here as they are great in the formality of it so such never fail'd to persecute them that 's born after the Spirit because such being dead with Christ to the World and the Rudiments of it have not nor never had that value for outward things which those born after the flesh have yet alwayes brings forth the righteousness of those things It was thus betwixt Israel and the Prophets and betwixt the Jewish Rabbys and our Lord and hath been much after the same manner in the Reformation and is after the like sort now if you could but consider it but for all this we can allow of Elders and that in a good sense for some have been before others in testifying to Gods appearance in our day and have been made instrumental to turn some to righteousness in the hand of the Lord but what then did such find out the Truth by their skill or cunning or the Lord fought them out did such send themselves or the Lord sent such into his Vineyard If the Lord is not all owing to him and cannot you be content with what honour he gives without seeking honour by bearing witness of your selves for the noise you make bears witness you are not satisfied with that honour he gives he that hath the Bride is the Bridegroom and in the best sense you can be but Preparers for him and as you have directed all to him you ought to be willing to present all to him for his increasing must be the decreasing of the Instrument for every true Preparer for Christ does certainly know as he comes to take the Government they must decrease therefore do they constantly throw down their Crowns by affirming that their Service must be fulfilled to every one that comes to know the sufficiency of our Lords Government And cannot you be glad and rejoyce in this If not all is not right yet for all the true Preparers for him as they know this ought to be so they both seek and defire it but such as are so much in the formallitys of Form they cannot because they gather to themselves that is to their own Opinions and Judgments grant that you have Preached to us Spiritual things What then do you desire we should know you after the flesh for that If so all is not yet right if God have made some of you Instrumental to turn some to Righteousness and in that sense may be termed as Fathers do you expect our Obedience as Children But if so consider you are under as great or greater Oligation to us as Children you should neither provoke not require of us what we can not give for Conscience sake for it would be cruel to seek to destroy what you might be Instrumental to beget 't is not a telling of us the cause of Difference is not matter of Conscience whilest we know and do most surely believe otherwise beware what you do for if by your distinctious of what 's Civil and Religious you destroy the tenderness of Conscience or reject such as are Consciencious your Work must suffer loss by the fire which must try your Works as well as others and indeed it seems already kindled the occasion of all this noise is for the saving of what is combustible whereas had you builded nothing but Gold and Silver had you infisted upon nothing but what had been Essentiall to Society and good Order there would have been no occasion of this noise because then there had been no fear or hazzard of loss nay such things would have stood the tryal and com'd through rather purified then hurt But to proceed is it not sufficient for you that we can acknowledg your Seniority as above expressed and can testifie that it was Truth you directed to in the beginning but we must alway be under your Tutorage is it not honour enough for you that we can say that having come to him with our hard Questions whose Fame you spread that we have found the truth of his sujficiency even beyond your report and now being come to him and heard him our selves would you have us back again to depend on you Nay verily rather give us leave frankly to say we believe not now because of your word but because we have heard him our selves whose word is Spirit and life and by what he has done for us we 're sure he only can compleat what remains and if your distinction of greater or lesser things were necessary Page 15 and 16 we find he does not only teach the great things which you seem to grant as our Duty towards God but the lesser things also as our Duty toward Men which you seem to reserve and what is this for but that we might alway remains Pupils that thereby we might be at your Devotion but to be plain if that distinction be needfull we find he teacheth the lesser things first and greater and greater as we are fitted to receive them for 't is impossible we should know the greater and not the less or be faithful in the greater and false in the less for he that performs his Duty to God cannot fail of paying what he owes to his Neighbour and indeed to know this Spiritual Birth by which God can in a peculier sense be truly called Father is needful for every individual Soul otherwise our Title and Interest is surer to this World and the things of it then it is to that which is to come when that and the things of it as it is more excellent so it can only be more sure this being but the Figure and that the Substance give us leave to say then where the sufficiency of Christ the Son of God is known such cannot depend on you nor any Man and they that know not your Service fulfilled by him knowes not yet his sufficiency nor is Christ yet truly formed in them as they ought to know him And truly every one that confesses that Christ is come in Spirit and does not wait and hope to have your Service fulfilled as Instruments they have either taken up a false Rest or yet never came into the true travel And whilst you seem to grant him the greater things and not the less it is because you do not know the greater or at least are not subject to the Government of Christ as you ought to be bear with us for the knowledge of his sufficiency and the necessity for every one â—…w it that professes his
teaching that confesses to his inward and Spiritual Appearance with love to him and those that so profess makes us thus to speak and constrains us thus to Judge that if one dyed for all then all was dead and he that you have directed to in the beginning being that one thas dyed for all for this very end that such as are quickied and live by him should not live to themselves nor to you nor any other by way of Dependance but only to him that dyed for them and rose again to Govern them so that tho there may have been a time that we might depend on Men as hoping to receive from them but this was in our Pupillage and Childish states and as that must be passed through or Spiritual Manhood cannot be known so where Spiritual Manhood is truly known such cannot know you nor any Men any more so or after that manner Christ has been known after the flesh but now as we are chiefly to know him after the Spirit on this account therefore we are to know Men no otherwise thus much by way of Preface And now we will come to the matter of Diffetence as you have stated it Page 2 and 3 that there is a Difference you say is but too plain for 't is come you say to a Seperation as well to Places of Worship as in matters of Disâ—pline c. Answer This is well done to grant that those that have Separated have Places for Worship c. For this fairly demonstrates those did not Seperate to be at liberty in the flesh as has been too commonly reported and objected no no that was not the matter Places for Worship shew such intend to serve God still and Discipline denotes such intend still to take care of what business belongs to the Society this we think might bring you nearer them then you are if well considered what you confess 〈◊〉 that they 'r one in Judgement with you in the Worship and Doctrines of Truth and therefore if you be true we cannot see how they should be wrong Consider of it But to Proceed The ground say you of this great Dissatisfaction upon which so great a distance has been raised you say meaning those that are Dissatisfied is requiring your complyance with some practices relating to Discipline particularly womens Meetings and coming twice before Men and Womens Meetings about Marriages before admitted to be Solemnized among us Some of you that is disatisfied thinking that there 's no Service for Womens Meetings at all others no Service in their being distinct from Mens Meetings at least no necessity for either and therefore no necessary complyance to be required and insisted upon by us but every one left in this matter should have been added to their Liberty in Christ least Imposition and Formality should prevail among us as they have done in other Religious Societies in this sayes the Author I think I have truly and fairly stated the case on your side that is dissatisfied and given your Objection to our Practice and the reason why you dissent from it c. Answer Other things beside this have given occasion of dissatisfaction For Instance that Possitive Limit of a Years time in the case of Marriage which certainly is of evil consequence and against both truth and reason as might be demonstrated But this above being as the Original or first beginning of the present Dissatisfaction that and the rest may be included in the success of this we may grant the Objection is better made then answered a great deal but yet it is neither fairly nor truly stated at least in the first part for you maâ—… the Objection 〈◊〉 alike against Mens and Womens Meetings and against coming twice to the Man 's as well as against comming twice to the Womens whereas you do very well know that the Objection does lie chiefly against that of the Women and your imposing of it and not against that of the Men nor against coming twice before them if occasion be for satisfaction for you know speaking generally they did not refuse to come to the Mens Meetings in the case of Marriage till you peremptorily made that of the Womens as Essential or as necessary as the other and would not allow of the Former without the Latter tho our Antient Practise and Order mutually agreed on and established among us From hence came Dissatisfaction by Imposing those things and thereby invading our Liberty as a free and Voluntary Societie and therefore if hence forward some refused to come to the Mens Meetings in the case of Marriage it was because you had injoyned the Other with it and this being wrong in their Judgement at least as Imposed it made the whole wrong for to injoyn what 's wrong with what 's right so that the one cannot be done without the other make the whole act wrong Now for you to Argue as in the 7 Page that such refuse to come to the Mens Meetings because they will not satisfie Parents nor clear former ingagements is disingenious and unfair for you have both lost the Objection to witt Womens Meetings and also make it the same thing to deny imposition as it is to go from an Antient Practice allowed of by us wherein you misrepresent the honest Dissenter as well as abuse the unthinking Reader c. As to the latter part of the Objection 't is more fair we may take it beginning at those words at least no necessity for either that is there is no necessity for Women Constant Meeting either by themselves or with the Men for Government in our Church or Society Now the Term necessity on which the weight of the Objection lyes or depends you have not spoken to it nor so much as taken notice of it in your Answer therefore we may safely say the objection tho of your own Stating is abundantly better made then answered but as the weight of the matter lyeth in this part you ought to have taken it in for you must grant there is a necessity for Womens Meetings as above or there is not if there is a necessity for Womens Meeting to be universally imposed upon the Society then you ought fairly to have set that out for do that and truly demonstrate or prove it and then complyance will follow of course this had been a short and clear way to have done your business but if no necessity for Womens Meetings as above then you ought to have granted that because it is needfull to know on what foot you proceed with us for if no necessity for them and yet you insist to require our Complyance then the Issue and decision of this great Controversie must stand in the valliditie of your Authoritie to require things to be done by us for which in truth there is no necessity that they should be done Observe Either of these Points truly proved determins the controversy but both cannot be insisted on and as both cannot be pleaded if you can prove
this Page 6 You tell us it is the end that allwayes constitutes the means and here you tell us that the increase makes the business and as business is that end therefore on those terms where there is no increase there is no business and where no business no end and where no end there need no means and 't is certain in many Places there is no increase since the thing came in question therefore as it is against the truth so 't is against your very good reason to impose them universally upon our Society thus to impose them is a wrong that you ought to avoid both according to reason and truth But further according to this reason that the increase makes the Service a decrease takes it away therefore where there is a decrease in stead of an increase as the Service is at an end we hope you will give leave to lay them by and we think you can hardly deny this for as in your sense there is not matter of Conscience Conscience you know cannot be pleaded to uphold them and if the pretence of Service be a wanting to what purpose are they indeavoured to be kept up except for meer Formallity The endeavouring of Unity there being the Rock on which all others have split But in short either your Elders that have exhorted to this of Womens Meeting and have used your Authority with the People for the keeping them up till you have made these Rents Divisions and Dissatisfaction did believe and judge that Friends was faithful to God without Womens Meeting that is before they had them or that they was not if they was not faithful to God did you think the setting up Womens Meetings for Government in the Society would doe the business What do you say Did you think they would keep out the Devil or baffle the Serpent Indeed if that was true things is much altered since the beginning But if you did believe that Friends was faithful how could you imagine they would not receive what was needful without force Pray consider is not our Principle universall And is not the Spirit of truth sufficient to lead into all truth Then must not every Man at least every Meeting know best what was Serviceable for them or what they ought to do If so what need we pray of more then recommendation Except you were afraid the Spirit of Truth would not lead into this Practice and why Except you know it was not a truth and if not a truth will you differ with us for things that ought not be observed as a truth Pray Consider of it Page the 8. and 9 You are pleased to tell us of the great benefits of Women distinct Meeting for Government For say you to confirm it two businesses is doing at the same time which say you in Country Places and Winter Seasons where Friends come 10 or 15 Miles to a Meeting must needs be very convenient and comfortable c. Answer Indeed You are hard beset to keep up the credit of your Opinion while such Lame Notions are given for reason for this makes Womens Meetings Serviceable where either they cannot be Practised or to be sure are least used for here you give short dayes and Winter Season to make them the more Servicable so that long dayes and Summer Seasons have the less occasion for them and yet every body knowes they are then most frequent And again as you make their greatest Service to be in Country Places where Friends come ten or 15 Miles to a Meeting they seem clearly to be of least use in the City if at all Serviceable there because Friends live near together so may take time to do that business they cannot in the Country when truly had not the good Women in the City found either more Service for their Meeting or less business of their own we believe we should never have been pressed with Womens Meeting in the Country to our dissatisfaction but by how much Friends live farther off one another by this rule Womens Meetings still are the more Serviceable for the farther off one another the less time to meet together and so stand the more need of quicker dispatch but all this proves Womens Meeting a very ordinary business for where Friends live near together they may very well excuse the Women because they may take time to dispatch their business themseâ—ves and then where they live remote they may as well excuse them by reason of the inconvenience of getting to go so that you see all this noise according to this reason is about litle or nothing But pray is not this reason at a litle ods with your Very good reason befor For there you made the increase of Friends to great Numbers to make the Service and here the fewness for the remoteness does demonstrate there 's but few but pray before you go further then 15 Miles for a Womans Meeting is the thing practicable you have already set on foot What! 15 Miles to a Meeting for Women and home again in Winter season and short dayes to which we may add bad Wayes long Miles and bad Weather for you have made no provision nor exception that we know of what think you of it on second thoughts You know you have told the good Women the matter does not relate to God nor is matter of Conscience so we hope you will allow them the use of their reason for if they find all the business they can do and goe 15 Miles to a Meeting in short dayes as above is not worth while or that they can do all that business if any better in their respective Meetings and perhaps with less Charge then this 15 Miles Journey would put them to and besides save themselves at home where they may be sure they have an incumbent Duty will not you be content What do you say If not pray may not we justly and honestly inquire if such as injoyne this 15 Miles Journey do themselves put it in practise If answered that perhaps such as injoyn it do not live so remote and therefore have not occasion to make the tryal then may we not still inquire who are best Judges of fact those that do not put in practice or them that have But what think you of it was not this Order made in some warmer Climate or at least for some that dwelt where Dayes are more equal Wayes better and Miles not so long as in many parts of England But indeed too much of this if it had not been to shew the frivolousness of your reason and therein the meanness of the cause that you have caused contention about Page the 9 you tell us those are your reasons and Motives to the present Practice of Womens Meeting in the Church of Christ without compelling Conscience or infringing Christian Liberty c. Answer We have considered the weightyest of your reasons that we could find as above and do not see any thing that is offered that can
a Figure of Gods dealing with Man from the beginning to the end for first here is Israel in Canaan which may stand as a Figure of Mans State in Paradice Israels going down into Egipt by reason of Famine a Figure of Mans driving out of Paradise Israel's relief comfort and satisfaction in Egipt a Figure of Mans Fall whilest alive in the World being dead to God the Law or Power of Death having dominion over him and Isreal in bondage in Egipt a Figure of Mans fall and misery when sensible of it being truly quickned and thereby made to know the Power or Law of sin in his Members but observe this bondage in Egipt preceded their deliverance and made way or prepared them for their going out into the Wilderness now as the Wilnerness was a different State to that of Egipt so the travel there fitted them for the possessios Canaan so far as it s said of that generation who had seen Gods wonders in Egipt and had experience of his various dealings or dispensations that they did walk sweetly with the Lord but when another Generation arose that did not know those things but by hearsay though they was in the same Land they soon forsook the Lord and served Idols from hence there appears a necessity for every individual soul to have experience of those various dealings of God in a spiritual sense in Order to their walking humbly with him Observe there was perfect different States and dispensations in the same age that is to the same People contrary to what you assert here was Canaan Liberty and Freedome opposed to Egipt bondage and Oppression and at last Canaan rest to the Wilderness Travels and as there was those real different States and perfect change of dispensations in the same age to the same People so was their Leader observe that as truly changed For Moses how eminent soever in the bringing them out of Egipt and through the Sea yet could he not bring them through Jordan into Canaan a Type of the true rest no that was Joshua's work Moses's Minister the Figure of the true Jesus which deserves your serious consideration for in this change of dispensation lies your great mistake We might say more but shall add only this that what was then in the Figure is now to be done in the Substance what was then done in the Letter is now to be done in Spirit for Gods Israel now is after the Spirit and not after the flesh and are to be gathered from Man to God so that if you do not throw down your Crowns there by making way for his Government by freely delivering up all unto him but in stead thereof by reflecting upon your abillities to Rule shall seek to perpetuate your Government under the Notion of Eldership neither you that seek this dependance nor those that depend upon you can enter the good Land of which Canaan was a Figure and what then If you go not forth again into Egipt you must die in the wilderness But we have more to this purpose in this Page it followes nor was it ever heard of sayes our Author in the dealings of God with the Sons of men that he varyed or changed his dispensations in the life time of the Instruments observe of any of them as some have been ready to imagine nor yet in that age in which he has brought them forth c. Answer What adoe here is to get your Government established If it were Christs our Lords there would be none of this Noise but as sure as you seem you 'r mistaken that God has varyed his dispensations in the same age is clear above for those very People of whom it was testified that they did walk sweetly with the Lord were of such as had seen Gods wonders in Egypt in the Sea and at Mount Sinai had known a travel in the Wilderness and their Leader changed and that before they entered Canaan did know the dividing of the Land and a sitting under their own Vine none being left to make them afraid and this under Joshua and not Moses according to the Figure is sufficient to shew the wrongness of your assertion but again that God never varied or changed his dispensation in the life time of the Instrument of them nor in that Age this is still as wrong as the former nay false in fact for Instance John the Baptist For that dispensation wherein he was so Eminent was truly varyed if not changed in his life time that it was varyed and to be changed is clear from the Baptists own testimony and that it was changed in the same Age is past scruple or contradiction and not to John Baptist only but to Christ also first in flesh and then in Spirit Now as those assertions are wrong and contrary to the truth so are they of dangerous consequence to the Souls of men by perpetuating Mans Government in stead of Christs there 's something like that saying Where is the Promise of his coming For since the Fathers dyed all things continue alike for like to that is this that God never varied or changed his dispensation in the same Age nor in the life time of the Instruments of any of them in this all things continue alike as they ever did and then on this foot must not you under this profession all degenerate as others have done before in your sense But pray how contrary is this to our Saviours advice to his Disciples and to all Man For sayes he What I say unto you I say unto all Watch and why must we watch Why because you know not at what hour your Master will come and pray who is this Master but the Lord our God that changes and varies his dispensations when it pleaseth him but rarely or never perceived by the Carnal mind nor by the greatest Formalist in Religion no no they 'r the greatest enemies of it 't is true you do not deny but the Dispensation may be changed but though you can not tell certainly when it shall be yet you presume to tell and that certainly when it shall not be and that 's not in this Age so that whiles this Age lasts we need not Watch in your sense 't is true your words imply God may alter this Dispensation when this Age is over and when all those eminent Instruments are dead but not till then however and thus by Preaching us into a sleepy Ignorance you hope to secure your Government as long as you and we live and indeed that 's long enough But if you could watch for us that we need not but may rest secure as long as this Age lasts or you live yet seeing the Dispensation in your sense may be changed when this Age is over and when all those Eminent Instruments are dead and then seeing there may be occasion to Watch for the Masters coming it would be needful at least for the good of others if not for us to set forth fairly what you mean by
the good they must be casten off or else it could not have been known thus it is clear they was rejected and casten off because they denyed the Change of Dispensation which should have inlarged them in Spirit to have been the blessing of Nations Pray consider if something of this hath not attended all the Reformations according to their respective Interest they could never as a body receive those further appearances of God testifyed unto by such as the Lord sent and and made use of and therefore stuck in a fleshly knowledg of what they first knew or received like the Jews which tho good in it self so far as it reacht but not considering that as God has done great things for them he could still do greater they durst never trust him in the delivering up of the Tallent therefore in stead of becoming more Spiritual they stuck in the flesh so that we may see in some sort what is of Man comes to be manifested in a Society which is one body on a religious score and that is flesh and Spirit which can never be reconciled and therefore the one must prevail and accordingly as they prevail that body may be denominated but in particular Persons we have seen the flesh overcom'd and that universallity of Spirit brought forth testified too in the birth of Christ yet truly there wants the Example in a body or Society of Men so needful so necessary for the honour of God and the Peace of Mankind and from hence have come those seperations and Divisions that have been and must continue till Shilo come And now you are upon the Stage and more may be expected from you then others by how much you conclude God to have done more for you then others and as you pretend more unto the Spirit then others If then you do resemble Spiritual Israel more then others you must wait to place your Unity not upon the Professor of the Truth for he may be but as the fleshly child of Abraham but upon the Possessor and upon all travelling for Sion tho so ignorant of the way that they weep because they know it no better For 't is those and not the former that follow the Lord where ever he leads and those he will own for ever whether they be known unto the World or worldly Professors or not he knowes them and is gathering them together in one by destroying the enmity as it stands in carnal Ordinances and doth declare now as he did by his Apostle that of every Nation those that fear God and work righteousness are accepted of him and what is accepted of God ought to be accepted of Man and therefore if you conceive you are Leaders not of Israel in the flesh but of Israel in the Spirit you must know your Spirits inlarged that you may own what God owns for as our Principal is universal our good will ought to be as large to the Children of Men for consider an Vniversal principle and a narrow limited Spirit are inconsistant But this can never be without a change of the Dispensation come you know Israel after the flesh was to allow the Gentile to worship God in the outward Court Pray mind then if their outward Court was not larger then ours 'T is true they had an inward Court that such could not come to till Circumcised was there then an outward Court and an inward and have not we what answers to them now What is sit for the Society of good Men may not that very well be allowed to come into our Society or outward Court For they who do not come thus farr cannot come into the inward Court yet seeing they must come to the outward before the inward shall not we allow them here Testifying at the same time to the Inward Court which none can come to but by the true Circumcision in Spirit Thus it is clear if our Outward Court were but a little more large our Inward Court would certainly be the more prized vallued and sought after Again you know the Leader in Israel in their Travel from Egypt to Canaan was to Travel according to the least of Israel and did allwayes own such as were Circumcised tho at eight dayes old to be of the Church of God in the Figure and pray will not this hold as true to Spiritual Israel What is Circumcision in the flesh now but a holy Conversation performed in the fear of God For as this is so far accepted of God it really fits for the Society of good men and therefore its impossible it should be rejected of that People or Society or Church that is a true Figure of the Church of God now least you should run this into an extream we will at present bound it with respect to your Brethen who have come out and suffered with you for the Testimony of a good Conscience and do yet in your own sense agree with you in the worship and Doctrines of truth and yet for all this are shut out and excluded by you for not complying with you in your Opinions yea meer Opinions for that they are such is put out of doubt when you tell us those things of Difference do not relate to Faith Conscience or Religion We beseech you to be serious for this evidently makes manifest the narrowness of your Spirits and that narrowness of Spirit demonstrates a necessity for you to know a change of the Dispensation For 't is impossible whiles you thus remain that you should be that Figure of the true Church to which the gathering can be by bringing forth that peace on Earth that good will to Men and glory to God on high where only the Swords are beaten into Plowshares and Spears into Pruning Hookes 't is this and the glory of this to which the gathering of the People must be we saw something of this in our coming forth as our testimony against all force wrath and sighting with carnal weapons do testifie But alas Not truly travelling in Spirit to know the work compleated we have not yet come to know the substance of what was seen in the Vision without which the other will prove but as a dead and Formal business Nor can you know this without a change of the dispensation and therefore whiles you conclude against it in your mind it is clear to us you stick in the works of a first Covenant and abide but under a Legal Dispensation and tho you appear to be against the Enemy as as an evil doer that is no more then others have done before you but not knowing the Dispensation changed tho the Enemy does not attach you with what is evil and Immoral yet he deceives you as a Serpent as is apparent in this noise you make about your Opinions and further clear in this Narrowness of Spirit that appears amongst you as is amongst the various professors of Religion that except you wait to know the Dispensation changed the Serpent will beguile you as he
to come in your own Name and not in his But on the other hand whilst we confess the Lord is come to teach and govern if we do not truly adhere to him as such can not know the truth of what they do profess so 't is certain such do not truly believe in him and if such think that want shall be supplyed by depending upon you or that this is Christs Government to be subject unto yours they are Miserably mistaken And truly whilst you seek this dependance under the Notion of Eldership you contribute to their mistake and are guilty of the Ignorance and Error such are in for as in the Figure above the Disciples were not to gather unto themselves but unto their Lord knowing none could be truly taught except they came to him so they knew that if they did come to him he was sufficient and therefore having brought 'em to him they did not interpose We have found the Messiah said one Jesus of Nazareth can any good come out of Nazareth Come and see try thy selfe and then thou 'l have the same ground to trust that we have or to this effect and t is true according to our Profession that Christ our Lord is now as able to teach and may be now as easily come to as then who is it then that dare strive for their Opinions whilest such acknowledge the Lord is present Thus if you were the Servants of Christ you must gather to him and not to your selves for we can not be the Disciples of Christ till we hear him our selves nor followers of him till we know him go before us and this we can not truly know whilest we depend on you or any Man True Religion is founded on those two Commands to love God with all our heart and our Neighbour as our selves here 's both our Duty to God and Men included and Christ our Lord teacheth the latter as well as the former and those that know not something of the truth of those things in their own minds under our Profession are not yet come in to the School of Christ Pray therefore let the People know that as Christ is head to the true Churh in all things he must be head to every Man in all things that is a Member of this Church So that to be of this Church is quite another thing then to be of any 〈◊〉 Society whatever Address to Protestants Page 177 this building is rear'd without noise strife and contention 't is like its Figure the Temple built at Jerusalem in Solomons Peaceful Reign no Axe or Hammer heard there all that at best is but in the Preparation which so many have mistaken for the choice And so in stead of travelling for the true rest have set up a false one growing great in stead of being humble dispising others in overvalluing themselves For all this noise and strife in the best sense is amongst the Servants and Workmen amongst the drawers of Water and hewers of Wood and not among the Children and Sons of God Now your Service if you have any is to bring to Christ the true knowledge of him ends the strife and the noise For those that sit at his feet truly to hear him are quiet and as they have chosen the better part soe are they not cumbred about many things And as your Service is to bring to him you ought to indeavour honestly to take out of the way whatever hinders coming to him and indeed in this case that is your own self hood your affected and desired Elderships for this is to bear witness to your selves by seeking a relyance and dependance upon you and this begets into Sects and Divisions for 't is sure while the People depend on you ot any Man they neither do nor can know the sufficiency of Christ our Lord. Pray therefore consider that to seek this dependance upon you under the Notion of Eldership is really against the truth of our Principle and Profession For if you prevail it will fix the People in that which can never perfect for all that depend on you as they must allwayes be learning of you such can never be able to know the truth as it is in Jesus as it allwayes falls out where Persons on a Religious score seek to bear Rule by their own means and the People love to have it so and as on this foot you will still grow more narrow in your minds and Spirits as true and just a seperation may be from you as any other People heretofore We intreat you to weigh the matter that so you may throw down your Crowns at the feet of Jesus who alone is worthy to raign according to our Testimony in our beginning Objection But perhaps you will say It is true Christ our Lord is sufficient for all that truly adhere to him but all that Profess him do not adhere to him and 't is for their Souls that an Eldership is necessary and that we are thus concerned that a check may be upon all Practice as an expediency against Irregularity in Conversation whether toward them that are without or them that are within the same Communion to which the strong will submit for the sake of the Weak c. Page the 9. Answer It seems your care is about those that do not truly adhere to Christ and for the securing of them you ought to be cautious that you do not burthen the Conscience of those that are faithful for if what is good and evil could not be known and Judged of without Womens Meetings for Government it were something to the purpose but since it is clear it may this seems but an Artifice to seek to inslave such as are conscientious and sincere to God under pretence of taking care for those that are not and is but a subtill argument to make way for the setting up Mans Government in stead of Christs for what is this but to say we are not to examine what you bring in whiles yon pretend to apply it to some good end But if we do examin things and truly find they tend to Formallity and leads into Ignorance and Slavery yet we must dissemble our conviction and dishonour our head to please you what 's this but to endeavour to make us owe more to you for Government then we do to the Civil Magistrate 'T is true We are to Obey every Ordinance of Man for the Lords sake but yet we do not this blindfold for as we are the Servants of Christ and own him for our Lord and Head we must examine what Man Injoyns and if in our understanding it agrees with the truth we are bound in Conscience to obey But if it do not then Conscience rather obliges to suffer then dishonour our Head And will you not allow us that berty without making us suffer which you take and insist upon as a right You know Christ our Lord is one in all and cannot deny but that he ought to be the Head