Selected quad for the lemma: spirit_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
spirit_n	jesus_n	lord_n	soul_n	17,358	5	5.0806	4	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A92974	Flagellum flagelli: or Doctor Bastwicks quarters beaten up in two or three Pomeridian exercises, by way of animadversion upon his first booke, intituled, Independency not Gods ordinance. / By J.S. M.A. Published by authoritie.	Sadler, John, 1615-1674.	1645 (1645)	Wing S276; Thomason E298_25; ESTC R200240	16,323	26

their word and bond I know not what that Faith should mean we ordinarily take faith for that whereby we believe and not that which we believe or if you take it so metonymically objectively what is it other then God or the will of God which I suppose you mean the Word of God For God or his will in its Essence is not immediately objected to us but hee reveales his will in his Word but to the substance of this boast and that that followes if there be any substance in it if you will believe God and the sufficiency of his institutions without the sureties of humane reason and authority as you do here equivalently professe you will not be offended at the Congregationall Way for that inconsistency and deficiency that is carnally objected against it As for that you say pag. 6. That this is no new opinion of yours it is no more then the Papists may say for their Mysterie of Iniquity And as for your sufferings for it which you boast of alas sufferings are subject to the same vanity and bondage of corruption as doings yea and the whole creation are i. to be applyed to ill things and graffed with an ill cause though I say not it was ill as opposing Prelacie or as it was a graduall recidivation from that tyranny And as for the acceptance of your endeavours and sufferings in that cause and your inference thereupon That therefore you see no good reason why a truth then should not be counted a truth now You beg the Question Prove first it was a truth otherwise 't is no wonder if that which seemed to be a truth six or seven yeers ago finde not the same acknowledgement now as might be instanced in many particulars Next you come to state the Question pag. 7. and immediately you give that which you call a simile of it but if it be it is 1. a carnall one and I had rather heare and it would better become a spirituall man to compare spirituall things with spirituall for Christs institutions must not be exacted by the Last and Rule of humane ordinances God gave Moses the pattern of the Tabernacle in the Mount he doth not send him to take a pattern for it from any earthly frame or fabrick though there were far more costly and curious but the Tabernacle was to have and had a fashion by it self that differed from all When we know the true nature of spirituall things of the devices of God as I may call them wee may finde a resemblance of them in things here below which are made after them but wee cannot fetch the knowledge of heavenly composures from these earthly things 2. Yet neither is this bed of your simile large enough for the tall and proper limbs of your Presbytery to stretch themselves upon For though the severall Companies in each city as you say though wee have not many such cities in England except you have more of them in Scotland wherein there are such severall Companies that have all their severall halls e. g. Merchant Taylors Grossers c. for to yeeld the matter of this simile are not independent but associate and combined in a common councell c. yet there are Corporations as small as these Companies in the Kingdome that are Independent and doe not act in association or coordination So that if the Churches in the Citie must to hold correspondence with the forme of Civill Government be in association and act in a Presbytery yet this Simile will not carry any such thing to an ordinary understanding that in the Countrey where they live three or foure or more miles asunder and act their Civill affaires independently they must doe so Nay then we will argue from the Simile If the Townes in the Countrey be independent in their Civill Government that is act singly and independently in respect of any other Townes intermedling their own businesses and concernments as they doe why should not the Churches in those Townes doe so too then at least the Churches in the Countrey must be exampted from Presbytery But 3. I answer to your simile That as it is shorter then that Presbytery as you would be willing to extend it in the praxis may stretch it selfe upon so it is abs re farre from illustrating the sense you intend For your simile in the true resolution of it proposes no other then whether Inferiors may act independent of their Superiors For all those appeales whereof you speake are still resolved into a higher notion power and authoritie e. g. The Lord Major Court of Aldermen and Common Councell are superior to any Company or Companies of the Citie in degree as their rulers or amount to a superioritie in value and summe as the representative of the Citie the whole which is better then any part therefore your simile is not fit for this purpose But now if you would propose a proper simile it should be thus Whether Companies or Corporations equall and coordinate may not and doe not act their owne proper affaires and concernments independently in respect of one another i. Whether if a Citizen of Merchant-taylors Company be aggrieved by the carriage of any thing in that Company he can so appeale to the Company of the Stationers and the Company of the Vintners and two or three more or the Heads of these as to subject the Company of Merchant-taylors to the jurisdiction and arbitrament of those Companies for this is the case here As suppose there be no imparity i. superioritie or inferioritie in the Churches but all are coordinate all are one Spouse to Jesus Christ and he intrusts one Congregation as well and as much as another and gives them as large a share of common interest in spirituall government or managing the matters of his Kingdome one Church as another and hath made no Common Councell no Court of Aldermen no Lord Major in his Church nor no Officers or distinctions answering to these And suppose further that as neither male nor female bond nor free so such a distinction of whole and part have no place in this matter but Christ Jesus the quickening Spirit be as in all so all in all and each of these particular bodies and as a whole Christ went for the ransome of each particular Beleever and a whole Christ is in every beleever as the soule tota in toto so the whole and intire glory of Jesus Christ be intrusted with every particular Congregation i. an intire and perfect administration of all government be committed to them and the intire * spirit of government be in each such Congregation Suppose I say it be thus as I conceive it will be found to be that each part be to Christ as the whole Christ being indivisible and recollecting his whole selfe in himselfe and in every part of himselfe which the spirit of humane power order and authority cannot doe and so we cannot weigh Christ against Christ Christs

power against Christs power nor many Congregations against one I say Suppose these things be so then is it any Question whether such Congregations may act independently When as wee know that Companies doe act independent of their fellow-Companies and Corporations in the Countries doe act independent of other neighbour-Corporations indeed they act not independently incontroulably of the higher names above them but a Company is not indicted by a Company a Corporation by a Corporation Untill therefore you shall prove that Churches are not coordinate or that there are higher names then Churches and Church-Presbyters or that the same persons are in higher place and office in a Classis then in their owne particular spheares and Congregations which if it were so then why should they not have suteable names that might import the superiority of the Relation even as the Common-Councell-Men though they be Masters and Members of the severall Companies yet when joyned in a Common Councell they are not called the Masters of the Companies of the Citie but by a distinct name of interest and honour the Court of Aldermen and Common Councell untill I say you prove these your simile will lye in the dirt I know wee have such names as Classes and Synods adapted and adopted to this Ecclesiasticall Hierarchy but they being onely jure humano will not passe with us for grounds of Authority or superiority in the things that are called by them Next after your Simile you come to your Question and to divide your position into foure Branches which yet you fall off from again by a digression of sixteen or seventeen pages long to prove viz. That all the Churches we read of in the New Testament were pregnant Churches or accumulated of many govern'd by a Common Presbytery Which labour you might have saved if you had hopes to make good the foure Branches propounded two of which are That the Mother-Church was such a Church and so govern'd and secondly That all other Churches are to be govern'd as that was at least you might have kept this for a reserve if they had failed But besides that you prove neither part of your Assertion viz. Either that they were aggregated Churches or that the Presbytery to which they were committed was a joynt Presbytery and not each Church to its particular for those many Scriptures you quote do neither of themselves sound so nor for ought I see doe you put such a twang into them you commit these errors by the way 1. You impose upon your Reader without any authoritie or reason that Diotrephes was an Independent and that was the quarrell John had against him and that his Church was in the faction with him when as wee have no mention of his Church at all nor of his prating against the Presbytery And for the crime objected of seeking the preheminence if the Lord keepe us that the world be never able to charge us with a likelier fault we shall not be afraid to make our Accusers our Judges Alas our offence is that we are against preheminence 2. You confidently exclude the people from having any hand in the Government in which you account the solving of difficulties in doctrine as well as other matters to be a part when yet in the places quoted especially and most expresly Act. 15. 22. the interest of the Brethren and the whole Church is spoken of not in actu signato onely but in actu exercito 3. Pag. 18. You make the names of Pastors and Shepheards when applyed to Church-Officers to import that Authoritie power and government as they doe when applyed to Magistrates at least you make the symbolizing of Church-Officers with Civill Magistrates in those Names an Argument of communicating with them in such a kinde of power as they have though not the same degree but how weakly let all men judge 4. Pag. 19. You exact the wayes of God by the line and rule of humane reason and will give no more to an Institution then it will goe for in that Market 5. In the same page you put such an Objection upon the Independents about requiring Miracles as the condition and qualification of Elders now adayes els not to be acknowledged Elders as I am confident the Congregationall judgement will not nor ever did they owne what ever some other Independents for it is a genericall name appliable to whomsoever the inventers of it please and more properly to some others then they that are commonly called by it may doe but that it might be a scandall to all of the Name you doe very wisely and take the right course not to name the booke or Author where you finde that Objection Pag. 29. You lure after your reader who might very well be turning his back upon your discourse that now you come in order to prove the foure propositions but you keepe not this order long The first proposition is That there were many Congregations and severall Assemblies in the Church of Jerusalem c. For the proofe whereof you bring the multitudes of Converts to Johns Baptisme The people of Jerusalem all of them and all Judea c. Whereby say you they all became Christians or Members of the Christian Church For say you Johns Baptisme was into Jesus Christ and the very same with that of the Apostles Wee answer to your Reason 1. Johns Baptisme was into Christ but it was in Christum moriturum not in Christum mortuum 2. To say it was the same with Christs and the Apostles is flat contrary to the Assertion of John himselfe and the Apostles I baptize you with water sayes he but there comes one after me who shall baptize with the Holy Ghost and with fire 3. Therefore now by Johns Baptisme they were not all made Christians no more then the body of the Jewes before John were turn'd Christians by being baptized in the red Sea c. for they were baptized into Christ by their Baptismes I deny not but this baptisme of John was to prepare men for Christ and did beare a more immediate relation to such a worke then any Ordinance before but it did not make them absolute Christians It did not absolve and perfect the new Church I meane not so farre as that Ordinance of Baptisme was to doe afterwards 4. The learned and judicious know that John was but the Messenger before Christs face and his Baptisme was but as the streamings of light in the Heavens before the day and he did onely bring and restore all things to their legall perfection by water the Element of the Law but Christ Jesus he comes and baptizes with fire Consummates all things with this transforming powerfull Element even his Spirit 5. So farre was it that all that were baptized by John were made Christians that even Johns owne Disciples who had the best and frequentest instruction not onely hesitated but were downright * scandalized at the true Messias and others did under that forme of Johns