Pastors I write against but the way There may be a Moses in Pharaohs Court a Ioseph in Poâ—phar's house a Cornelius or devout man though out of the Church a Luther even in Rome till the Lord enlighten So as government and discipline is a Churches right and priviledge not the worlds and Nations priviledges as so and then Where are all your quoted Texts which are applied Surely that of Corinth is the Churches and that of Ezekiel and Proverbs makes not for the discipline of a Church at all Master Ley's Resolution Page 16 17. He makes a comparison betwixt materiall and spirituall buildings as stone and timber should not be clapt together in the one soone in the other 1. Similitudes may illustrate but not prove any thing 2. Conformity betwixt materiall and spirituall things is not to be carried too far 3. In materiall buildings or the Temple there is not only squared stones but peeces and rubbish which have their use not so in the spirituall all things there are homogeneall and square and living stones c. 4. Those that he accounts rough and unsquared are in some conformity though not so polished as others 5. The best stones are not to be taken from the rest to make up a building by themselves as in seperated Congregations 6. Let him shew any such example in the New Testament where when there was a mixture of holy and prophane as in Corinth i Cor. 11. 21. the Apostles gathered out the holy part 7. That of Axes and Hammers hath a mysterious truth in it but not to his purpose viz. That the spirituall building is built of the soft and secret whispers and motions of the spirit Reply To that of the similitudes I fully agree with you they illustrate better then they prove To that of not carrying a conformity betwixt materials and spirituals too high I agree with you in that too yet not so fully for Iesus Christ the great Prophet of the Gospell preached the glory of the Kingdome in materiall comparisons in salt water leven mustard-seed sowers husbandmen vines vineyards c. To that of spirituall buildings which you say are to be made up only of squared living stones I agree with you and here the controversie might be ended If your Temples shall be of living stones the controversie is granted But because I will not seem to mistake you I beleeve the spirituall building you mean and I are not the same here You mean as it appears the invisible spirituall or Church mysticall and yet there all is not so Homogeneall and of the same kind neither The head of the body is both God and man and one member like one star differs from another in glory But we are speaking of the spirituall building or Church here which is the Image of the Church above and as that is of true reall essentially spirituall living stones so the Church below is to consist at least of such as visibly and formally appeare so and therefore the Apostle cals them in his Epistles Saints and called to be Saints And to that of your peeces of Rubbish in the materiall building It is true But what is that to Salomons Temple which my comparison drives up to How much Rubbish can you prove in that type nay square stones pure Cedar gold c. to figure out the Gospell-building or Temple as in Heb. 9. So as your rubbish is only in your owne allusion not in mine To that of your unpolished stones in your Parishes which may fit the Temple now I answer It must be then only such a building as the materiall one you speake on which is made up of rubbish and broken peeces and if that be according to Christs patern let these Scriptures in the margin with many more determine And for their submitting indeed there is a nationall blinde traditionall obedience in them I cannot call it Gospell submission To that of the best stones not to be taken out to make up a building I answer I am sure we are to take in no ill unhewne unpolished and the Scripture cautions and practise are cleare c. then judge you what the stones must be Nor doe we so picke and chuse as if all stones were to be square alike or equally polished that is not in any materiall building Though we would take in no rubbish yet we take in stores differently squared As in the body one member differs from another the eye and hand and foot c. and members lesse honourable 1 Cor. 12. so in the body of the Church every one according to his measure and as every one hath received Nor do we stand so for the first polishing as you pretend You make as if we set up such degrees of perfection as were only the degrees of the invisible or mysticall body when it is meerly in the degrees of visible Gospell-perfection By this you would make the carnall to abhor and the weaker to stumble and be offended as if the doore of our Churches were not open for any such whom you imply were of a temper meerly Spirituall and of a size of our owne not the Scriptures Let the doores of our Churches be as strait as you imply I am sure your doors are set open or rather cast off the hinges but a pure Gospel-entrance is neither too wide nor too narrow We know there is smoaking flax and bruised reeds measures of grace If they can willingly submit to Iesus Christ their Law-giver and walk as members of the body here they may receive polishing and have honour and building up and many other degrees of perfection which the Saints of God obtaine when they are in fellowship with the Father and the Son To that of your challenge that I should shew any such example in the New â—â—stament of taking out the best when there was a mixture of holy and prophane I answer Those were Gospel-Churches gathered by the Word and Spirit into Gospel-fellowship and when you make your Parishes to appeare such Churches then I shall tell you more till then I suspend your challenge The world and an Antichristian Nation are both under Christs fan for gathering them out To that of a mysterious truth you speak on in the Axes and Hammers I agree with you in that and because of the mystery I therefore quoted it And whereas you summe up all the mystery into the soft whisperings and motions of the Spirit you can hardly warrant us or secure us that your interpretation is the whole mind of the Spirit and that very interpretation of yours is part of it the very same I aime at viz. to shew how the Gospel-building is softly gathered and made up by the Ministery of the Word and Spirit and not with Axes and Hammers tools of a compulsive forcing sharp and authoritative nature as c. Master Ley's Resolution Page 17 18 19. For that of his c. whore he makes Christs description of himself c. to be against the establishment
hath it not a Jus divinum a Divine Right put upon it if all be of the Holy Ghost in it But I would not mistake you you say only that all is by the dictate of the Holy Ghost of the Assembly and Parliament So it is but part then by your own confession of the Holy Ghost the rest is of the Assembly and Parliament You say The builders have had speciall regard to Jesus Christ the Foundation I will not suspect the Counsels and Debates of any of the builders I know the Disciples of Christ were true Disciples though they had not all of the Spirit at one time which they had at another I hope and I pray that the Lord will make up to the builders what of the Spirit he hath not given them that they may both see to build right and see where they have builded wrong and so pull down againe as well as set up And whereas you say The building may go on by Master Saltmarsh his own consent I say your building will go on it seems whether Master Saltmarsh consent or no. Master Ley in his capacity is better able to put it on at this time then Master Saltmarsh is to put it off to another time unlesse the Lord who is above all and hath the mighty even the Princes of the earth to command work for his own glory above all that we can or think Master Ley's Resolution pag. 38 39 40. To the second Objection and Answer of Heresies and Schisms and so they might have done from Iohn's first Sermon he saith 1. Why doth he begin with Iohns first Sermon Were not the Esseans c. Hereticks and Schisma icks See Epiphanius c. 2. He makes Pauls Epistles the terminus ad quem which from John's first Sermon to the last make up Twenty nine yeers After the Epistles he brings in the sending the Spirit c. which was but five yeares after the first Sermon of John Baptist 3. Before the end of the Epistles that Government was not which we find in Scripture and if so the Church-Government was not long suspended 4. Nor would it prejudice our expedition People of that Age could not be so easily gathered as with us they may be 5. What was long in establishing in Primitive times cannot be said to be hastily done now after so many discussions and deliberate resolutions Reply You say first Why begin I for Hereticks and Schismaticks from John's first Sermon I begin there because there began the mystery of the Gospell And yet I shew you that no Government began with that Gospell manifestation by which I made appeare that if Government had been of such morall necessity why was it not given out with the Gospels first giving out Now you prove in a chronologicall discourse the space of time from Johns Sermon to Pauls Epistle to make the time appeare for Government And after you have summed up all the time and periods and find it no two or three yeers work you conclude People of that age could not be so easily gathered as now Nor the long establishing then to be an hasty establishing now And now after all this discourse and ravellings out of time from Johns Sermon c. What have you gained Not that the Government was soon setled Then you have proved much to my advantage and in a clearer and fuller computation then I did the contrary So as you have only been taking some learned paines if you well observe and the Reader well observe you to prove that the Government at first was not suddenly cast into modell nor brought forth in practise which is the very thing I aimed at and truly your pains in it have been more exact then mine and I thank you for it But you say It ought not to be so now nor can it be said to be hastily done now that was done so long ago You say true in that But you know the same Spirit must reveale it that formed it and it formed it at first by degrees and the way of Revelation hath been more year's then the first farming reckon but your Antichristian years as exactly as you have done your first Christian and Primitive yeares and you may be more satisfied So as all both the first Revelation of it from Prophesies and the latter from Antichristianism makes all for the not hastening which I aimed at Indeed if you can as infallibly assure us this forme and modell is the very forme then given out it were very true that you say That it cannot be said to be hastily done now what was done so long agoe viz. If it be that very one which was done so long ago For your exception against me concerning my placing the giving of the Spirit so late if you interpret sense by the strict order of words you will lose many a Scripture truth in the words as you well know Master Ley's Resolution Page 40 41. To that of Heresies c. he saith What if they do not ster up their Patrons against the State c. but they busily poyson the soules of the people and shall they if as Paul Best be suffered to blaspheme and reproach and perturb the publike Peace An Indulgence much like old Elies c. If Truth be not more precious then Peace why doth our Saviour say He came not to send peâ—ce And why do the Fathers contend so against the Arrians about a letter And why we so with the Romish Religion rather then be at peace with them For that of morall transgressions he would have the Magistrates set on Set on By whom We have not such meane thoughts of the Magistrate as to make mention of him in such terms of disparagement And for all his Disciplines regulating men for religious walking there will be worke enough for the Magistrate to bring them under civill tryall for câ—ntumaâ—ie c. Reply You say What If hereâ—ies stir not up they poyson souls If they poyson let the Gospel-antidote be applied then and no other way which the Gospell will not beare noâ— allow there is the sword of the Spirit and weapons not carnall but mighty and spirituall For that of old Elies indulgences which you speak on you are still looking upon Moses though you tell us of Christ Make the Kingdome of Israel and of England the same a Iewish and Christian State the same and then we shall allow you both Elies sin and his sons maintenance by tythes offerings You say Truth is more precious then peace yet there is a peace precious as well as Truth even the Peace of Christ as well as the Truth of Christ But to the businesse You would prove Truth to be precious to the disadvantage of Peace and therefore you bring in the Fathers against the Arrians and us against the Papists and Christ against Peace But what would you prove Would you prove that truth ought to be established against peace and peace to be no way to truth Surely truth and
repent or be sorry for sinne c. be humble c. if they preach them as Christ and the Apostles did as graces flowing from him and out of his fulnesse and not as springings of their owne and waters from their fountaines as if the teachers like Moses would make men beleeve they could with such Rods and exhortations smite upon mens hearts as upon rocks and bring waters out of them be they never so hard and stony We agree with you that repentance and sorrow for sinne and humiliation and self-deniall are all to be preached and shall contend with you who preaches them most and clearest but then because Iohn said Repent and Christ said Repent and Peter said Repent are we to examine the Mystery no farther Know we not that the whole Scripture in its fulnesse and integrality reveales the whole truth and must we not looke out and compare Scripture with Scripture spirituall things with spirituall and so finding out truth from the degrees to the glory and fulnesse of it preach it in the same glory and fulnesse as we find it We heare Christ preaching before the Spirit was given Repent and we find when the Spirit was given Christ is said to give Repentance to Israel and forgivenesse of sinnes and shall we not now preach Jesus Christ and Repentance in Jesus Christ the fountaine of repentance the author of repentance and yet preach repentance and repentance thus and repentance in the glory of it more The Apostle in one place saith Beleeve in the Lord Iesus Christ and thou shalt be saved and in another place He is the author and finisher of our Faith Shall we not now preach Iesus Christ first and Iesus Christ the fountaine and Iesus Christ the author of faith and beleeivng and yet preach faith yea and thus preach faith faith in the glory faith in the revelation of it faith from Christ and faith in Christ One Scripture tels us godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation c. And another tels us They shall look on him whom they have peirced and they shall mourne for him c. Shall we not now preach sorrow for sin took from Christ Christ piercing and wounding and melting the heart Christ discovering sin and powring water upon drie ground this is sorrow for sin in the glory of the Gospell One Scripture bids He that will follow me let him deny himselfe and take up his crosse Another saith It is he that worketh in us both to will and to do of his good pleasure and I am able to do all things through Christ that strenghneth me Shall we not now preach Christ our strength and Christ our selfe-deniall and is not this selfe-denyall in the glory of the Gospell So as the difference betwixt us is this Ye preach Christ and the Gospell and the graces of the Spirit in the parts as ye find it we dare not speak the mystery so in peices so in halfe and quarter revealings we see such preaching answers not the fulnesse of the Mystery the riches of the Gospell the glory of the New Testament We find that in the fulnesse of the New Testament Christ is set up as a Prince as a King as a Lord as a crown and glory to every grace and gift nay he is made not only righteousnesse but sanctification too and so we preach him Whereas to preach his riches without him his graces by themselves single and private as repent and beleevs and be humbled and deny your selves ye make the gifts lose much of their glory Christ of his praise and the Gospell of its fulnesse To the Second of your alleadging my Book in such and such pages as another Gospell from Christs I shall print them as you quote them and with them I desire these things to be considered together with the other parts of my Booke and the scope of it which you have detained in unrighteousnesse All these I freely open to the judgment of all who are Spirituall Master Gataker 1 That John Christs and his Apostles Method were all one for matter and manner for they all preached Faith and Repentance and yet we are taxed for these things as Legalists by this Author 2 John and the rest preached life and salvation upon condition of Faith and Repentance and Obedience 3 Where we find Faith only preached it is because we have but the Summaries or heads of their Sermons Answer To the first that I taxe you for preaching Faith and Repentance as the Apostles did and John did as Legalists Nay I tax ye only because ye preach it not as they did according to the full revelation of it in the New Testament but you preach it only as you find it in their Summaries and in the briefe narration of their Doctrine and this you ought not to do if you will preach according to that glorious Analogie of the Gospell and to this I shall only bring in your own words to convince you and so from your own mouth condemn you You say of the Apostles We have but Summaries of them as in Acts 2. 40 and 16. 32. and you knowing this preach only by their first Methods and Summaries not looking to the revelation of the mystery which the Apostle saies is now made manifest And for Iohns manner of preaching his Preaching is to be no more an example to you then his Baptism You know the least in the Kingdom of Heaven is greater then he To the second That Faith Repentance and Obedience were conditions of life and salvation Why keep you not to the Forme of wholesome words in Scripture Where doth the Scripture call these conditions of salvation They that are Christs do beleeve and repent and obey but do they beleeve repent and obey that they may be Christs Hath not God chosen us in him predestinated us unto the adoption of children in Jesus Christ But I know you wil say That when the Apostles did beleeve repent and obey it is by consequence as much as a condition and the same with a condition But answer The interpreting the Spirit thus in the letter and in consequence hath much darkned the glory of the Gospell When some of Christs Disciples took his words as you do under a condition Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man c. the words saith he that I speake are Spirit Consider but what stâ—â—â—ts you bring the Gospell into first you make life appearing to be had in the Covenant of Grace as at first in the Covenant of Works Do this and live so beleeve repent obey and live thus runs your Doctrine nor can you with all your distinctions make Faith in this consideration lesse then a worke and so put Salvation upon a condition of works againe Is this Free-Grace But you say Faith is a gift freely given of God and here is Free-grace still But I pray Is this any more Free-Frace respectively to what we do for life then the Covenant of works
a Kingdom of Israell nor a Church of Israel though too many of you have preached the Old Testament more then the New for what advantage let the Magistrate judge To the Seventeenth That he may in time say as much of justice living upon voyces in Assemblies as of Truth and so to be a Mystery of Iniquity These are but insinuations to the Magistrate and ghosts of Jealousie which you raise And to put an end to such feares when I make Church and State Magistrate and Ministery Gospell-laws and Civill to be both one then challenge me for that opinion But I have learned that Christs Kingdom and the worlds have a severall Policy and that may be a Law in the one which is not to the other And now is it your Inference or my Principle wrongs the Magistrate An Answer in few words to Master Edwards his second Part of the GANGRENA And to the namelesse Author of a Book called An After-reckoning with Master Saltmarsh MAster Edwards the difference betwixt ye both is this You set your name to more then you know as hath been well witnessed and this man dare set his name to nothing You sin without shame and your Partner is ashamed of what he doth Sin is too powerfull in you against Truth because you shew your selfe and Truth is too powerfull for him because he hides himselfe Master Edwards I shall answer you in these few words but first The Lord rebuke thee even the Lord. 1. If the Image of Christ be in any of those you so persecute how can you answer it to Jesus Christ to cast any dirt on the glory of him 2. If God be in any of those you are so much an enemy to how will you answer it to fight against God any thing of God 3. If any of those be the children of the heavenly Father or the little ones of the Gospell It were better that a milstone were hanged about your neck and you cast into the Sea So Christ tels you 4. What is it to sin against the holy Ghost but to hate the Light once known or to blaspheme the works of the Spirit And you once professed to me you had almost been one of those whom you call Hereticks Oh take heed of that sinâ— there is no more Sacrifice for that And how if the works of those you so judge be wrought in the Spirit shall you ever be forgiven in this world or in that to come Read the words and tremble 5. Doth not the Word bid you restore those that are fallen in meeknesse and tell your brother his fault first betwixt you and him And you never yet came to any of them that I could heare of but print proclaime tell stories to the world of all you heare see know Is Christ in this Spirit Is the Gospell in this straine Will this be peace to your soule hereafter 6. Solomon tels us that a man may seem faire in his own tale till his neighbour search out the matter And how dare you then take all things at one hand and not at anothers How dare you have one eare open for complaints and faults and crimes and the other shut against all defence Did ever Justice do this Did you ever call for their accusers face to face Did you ever traverse Testimonies on both sides And dare you judge thus and condemne thus Shall not the Judge of Heaven and Earth make you tremble for this Injustice Shall he not make Inquisition upon your soule for this bloud 7. Is it any other ground or bottome you stand on in this your way of accusing the Brethren but Paul you say named some and the Fathers named some so and Calvin as you told me the other day when I met you And was there ever crime without some Scripture or shadow of the Word Did not Canterbury on the Scaffold preach a Sermon of as much Scripture and Story for what he did as you can for yours if you should ever preach there He thought ye all Hereticks as you do us he thought he might persecute you as you do us and he had a Word from John Baptist for his manner of death and a Word from the Red sea and Israelites for his death and enemies and a Word from Paul for his Changing Laws and Customes and for his crime of Popery he had a Word fâ—â—m them that feared the Romanes would come and take away their Government Thus Satan and Selfe can paint the worst kind of sin Poore soule Is your conscience no better seated then in such aâ—ery apparitious of Scripture and failings of Fathers Do not you heare the Prayers of those soules you wound pleading with God against your sin Are you not in the gall of bitternesse and bond of iniquityâ— Is not your spirit yet flying when none pursues you Are not your dreames of the everlasting burning and of the worme that never dies Have you no gnawings no flashings no lightnings I am afraid of you Your face and complexion shewes a most sadly parched burnt and withered spirit Methought when I called to you the other day in the street and challenged you for your unanswerable Crime against me in the third page of the last Gangrena in setting my name against all the Heresies you reckon which your own soule and the world can witnesse to be none of mine and your own confession to me when I challenged you How were you troubled in spirit and language Your sin was as I thought upon you scourging you checking you as I spoke I told you at parting I hoped we should overcome you by prayer I beleeve we shall pray you either into Repentance or Shame or Judgement â—re we have done with you But Oh might it be Repentance rather till Master Edwards smite upon his thigh and say what have I done For your Anagram upon my name you do but fulfill the Prophesie They shall cast out your name as evill for the Son of mans sake And for your Book of Jeeres and Stories of your Brethren Poore man It will not be long musick in your eares at this rate of sinning For the namelesse Author and his After-reckoning let all such men be doing for me Let them raile revile blaspheme call Hereticks It is enough to me that they write such vanity they dare not own And now let me tell ye both and all such Pensioners to the great accuser of the Brethren Fill up the measure of your iniquity if ye will needs perish whether we will or no. I hope I rest in the bosome of Christ with others of my Brethren raile persecute do your worst I challenge all the powers of hell that set ye on work while Christ is made unto me righteousnesse wisedome sanctification and redemption And I must tell ye further that since any of the light and glory of Christ dawned upon me since first I saw that Morning-Star of righteousnesse any of the brightnesse of the glory in my heart that heart of mine which
Some Drops of the Viall powred OUT IN A SEASON WHEN IT IS Neither Night nor Day OR Some Discoveries of Iesus Christ His Glory in severall BOOKS viz. 1. The New Quaere 2. The Opening of the Vindication 3. The Smoake in the Temple 4. The Groanes for liberty 5. The Divine Right of Presbytery discussed 6. An End of One Controversie 7. Reasons for Vnity Peace and Love And Shadowes flying away All which Books are here reprinted in one Booke entirely after the severall Impressions of them and presented to the Reader 1 King 19. 11 12. But the Lord was not in the Winde and after the Winde an Earthquake but the Lord was not in the Earthquake and after the Earthquake a fire but the Lord was not in the fire and after the fire a still small voice and the Lord was in that By John Saltmarsh Preacher of the Gospell LONDON Printed for Giles Calvert at the Black Spread-Eagle at the West end of PAULS 1646. TO HIS EXCELLENCY Sir THOMAS FAIRFAX Generall of all the Forccs raised for the PARLIAMENT Right Honourable THe severall pieces thus rallied were never writ in my own power or appointment but I had commonly some juncture of Providence and something of a Spirit not my own upon me for I observed I could not write when I would my Springes were not in me nor could I end when I would till I had finished this Testimony and for something of God here I am sure there is enough of man of my selfe Thus is Gods appearing while we are in the Body he was in Christs which had no sin but he is not so in ours which are full of sin I have some few things to say and they ars things of duty from me and of truth to you that God hath filled the story of your life with himselfe with his Power Wisdome and Love and all that he may be your fulnesse and that you would glory in the Lord Let me remind you how you have seen him from Leedes to Bradfoorth to Wetherby to York to Hull even from Yorkeshire to Lincolneshire from thence to Naseby and so through the Conquest of Cities Towns Castles through so much almost as a Kingdom comes to And now after all this enter into your rest even the love of God the Son of God and there refresh your selfe in his light in his glory in the bosome of his love there are pleasures for evermore this is a piece of your coursest worke to beare the Sword for him who is the Power of God upon Earth for the punishment of evill doers in the world the more glorious worke is your Spirituall where Principalities and Rulers and Spirituall wickednesse in high places flesh and bloud are all against you and yet you above them all in him through whom you are more than Conquerour even him that loved you Sir Let it be not your busines only to Conquer as a man but as a Saint not as a Souldier but as a Christian not in the spirit of man but of God Let not a sin a lust a temptation stand more before you in the body then an enemy in the field gird on your spirituall Armour your Shield of faith your brestplate of righteousnesse your Sword of the Spirit your Helmet of Salvation and put on your white lining which is the righteousnesse of the Saints and follow him who rides on the white Horse in a vesture dipt in the bloud of his sufferings whose name is the Word of God and tell me if ever there was Glory like unto this Glory I cannot reckon the mighty men of valour in the world any thing but a worldly glory which if it dyed not with them or some ages after them yet can live no longer than the life of the world all these things are perishing but to be a man of the holy Spirit a man borne of God a man that wars not after the flesh a man of the Kingdom of God as well as of England Thus you shall live beyond time and age and men and the world gathered up into the life which is Eternall and was with the Father Sir Your dwelling now is much in the shadow of death and amongst the Graves and therefore so live in Christ your life that you may have one life more then men can kill men can only kill the man not the Christian. Sir I will not praise you but blesse God for you and his Image in you this will make great men love God and not themselves to speake of them as his not as their own Now Sir so warre that you may be still a man of peace in the midst of battell and of compassions in the midst of sufferings never wearing your Laurell without some Olive that all may know when you act as a Magistrate and as your selfe when you act from power or when from love from Justice or when from mercy So love as you may love God and Christ in men more then men and the Spirit in any more then the Forme either of Presbytery or Independency Thus Brethren who can now scarcely love one another because of that shall love you and shall learne to love one another from you Noble Sir Your humble servant IOHN SALTMARSH A New Quaere At this time seasonably to be considered as we tender the advancement of TRVTH PEACE Viz. Whether it be fit according to the Principles of true Religion and State to settle any Church-Government over the Kingdome hastily or not and with the Power commonly desired in the hands of the Ministers By IOHN SALTMARSH Preacher of the Word at Brasteed in Kent 2 Cor. 10. 8. Our authority which the Lord hath given for Instruction and not for destruction LONDON Printed for Giles Calvert at the Signe of the Black Spread-Eagle at the West-End of S. PAULS 1646. A Quaere Whether it be â—it according to the Principles of true Religion and State to settle any Church-Government over the Kingdom hastily or not and with the Power commonly desired in the hands of the Ministers _1 THe Rules laid down in the Word for practicall Obedience are these in part Let every one be fully perswaded in his own mind Rom. 14. 5. ver 23. and whatsoever is not of faith is sin Now the setling of any Government upon a people who are yet generally untaught in the nature and grounds of it is to put upon the people the practice of that wherein it is impossible they can be fully perswaded in their minds and so either on a necessity of sin or misery 2 There is great danger of bringing people under a Popish implicite Obedience by forcing on a practice of that which they scarce know or know but in part And this is against the Nationall Covenant to side with any Principles of Popery And we know it by experience that the people have been ever devoted to any thing the State sets up all the disputes or conscience of the common people usually ending in this Whether it
and severall Colours in wars whereby men are gathered into severall Orders Armies and bodies of division one against another one saith I am of Paul and I of Apollo and I of Cephas Is Christ divided 3 Passions and railings forborn Let a spirit of meeknesse run in the arterie of Preaching and Printing Let not passions evill speaking railings which inflame and doe not edefie be heard amongst us the angry stir up strife wherefore let all bitternesse wrath malice with evill speaking be put away from you 4 Reviling each other for infirmities forborn Let there be no rifling into each others infirmities to the advantaging or disadvantaging the cause What is any thing of the man to the thing it self What is ones darknesse to the light he professes Any ones errours to a single truth There is rubbish enough every where if swept from every corner 5 The sins of any not to be laid on the Cause Let not the miscarriages the failings the sins the hypocrisie c. of any that professe a Truth with others be charged upon the Truth he or they professe making such sins to be the sins of opinion not of the Person as one of late who hath charged the unfortunate end of one as a fruit of seperation whereas he might so argue against the very Doctrine of Christ because of one Iudas who did the like to himself 6 Liberty for Printing and speaking Let there be liberty of the Presse for Printing to those that are not allowed Pulpits for Preaching let that light come in at the window which cannot come in at the doore that all may speak and write one way that cannot another let the Waters of the Sanctuary have issue and spring up Vallies as well as Mountains 7 Let all subscribe their names to what they Print Let all that Preach or Print affixe their names that we may know from whom the contrary is a kind of unwarrantable modesty at the best if it be truth they write why doe they not own it if untruth why doe they write Some such must either suppresse themselves for shame or fear and they that dare not own what they doe they suspect the Magistrate or themselves 8 Let all be severally accountable Let all that Teach or Print be accountable yet in a severall way if it be matter of immediate disturbance and trouble to the State let them account for it to the Magistrate under whom we are to live a peaceable and quiet life if matter of Doctrine c. let them be accountable to the Beleevers and Brethren who are offended by conference where there may be mutuall conviction and satisfaction 9 Free Debates and open Conferences Let there be free debates and open conferences and communication for all and of all sorts that will concerning difference in spirituals where doores are not shut there will be no breaking them open so where debates are free there is a way of vent and evacuation the stopping of which hath caused more troubles in the States then any thing for where there is much new wine in old bottles the working will be such as the Parable speaks on still allowing the State to secure all tumults or disturbances 10 Let us call Beleevers though of severall opinions if the Name Brethren cannot be justly allowed Let all who pretend to come out of the Antichristian State be acknowledged as those severall Iewes and Christians who came out of Iudaism and Gentilism in the Apostles times some were more and some lesse zealous of the Law yet all Beleevers some made conscience of the Idoll and sacrifice some not 11 No Beleevers to esteeme too highly of themselves for what they attain to Because we are but yet commings out of Babylon and the fall of Babylon not yet the Smoke yet in the Temple the Angels but powring out the Vials the Angell that enlightens the earth with glory not yet flying through the heavens let not any account of themselves to have attained any thing yet as they ought or to know there is not any Church or Beleevers but if one see more of one truth another may see more of another if one see one thing for a truth another sees another thing for a truth and yet all see short of the fulnesse of truth there is so much want darknesse and so little light or glory in each as is rather matter of humiliation and praise then glorying and exception one against another If any man thinke he knoweth any thing he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know 1 Cor. 8. 2. 12 No assuming infallibility over each other Let us not being under no further degree of the revelation of Truth and comming out of Babylon assume any power of infallibility to each other so as to force up all to our light or degree of knowing or practising for there lies as much on one side for compulsion as on another respectively to one another for anothers evidence is as darke to me as mine to his and mine to his as his to me till the Lord enlighten us both for discerning alike So as when there is no power in us to make that appeare to another which appeares to us there can be no reasonable equity for any inforcing or compelling in spirituals The first great rent betwixt the Eastern and Western Kingdomes began when the Bishop of Rome would needs excommunicate the East for not beleeving as they beleeved 13 No Civill Power drawn into advantages Let not those Beleevers who have the advantage of the Magistrate strive to make any unwarrantable use of it one against another because Scripture principles are not so cleare for it and because they know not the revolution of Providence and we are to do as we would be done to That very day which should have been a bloudy day to the Iewes was turned into the contrary Esther and the Jewes had power over them 14 Tendernesse in offending each other in things of an outward nature Let there be much tendernesse in not offending each other but pleasing one another to edification Paul would not offend the Idolatrous weak The weakest and most superstitious makes most conscience of outward things and the strong should know that Idoll or Idoll-Temple is nothing Many a one are more offended at Truth by the carriage of another who sometimes reformes with as much superstition as the other offends It is as much below the glory of the Gospell to thinke one place unholy as holy No place can defile now Salomons Temple is not standing yet let all Truth be brought forth peaceably Truth and Peace can offend nothing but that which may be justly offended which is the corruption not the person 15 Severall Opinions from the Gospels first discovery yet all Beleevers Consider the differences and severall Opinions from the first discovery of the Gospell Some beleeved not Christs sufferings and Resurrection as the Disciples whom yet Christ took to
him and walked with and counted as his Some beleeved not the Holy-Ghost nor Christs Baptism and were zealous of the Law and yet the Disciples counted them as Beleevers Johns Disciples would have followed Iohn only but Iohn sent two of them to Christ at one time and told them againe he must increase but himselfe must decrease Christ in his time would not forbid any that went about in his Name There is none that doth any thing in my Name can lightly speak evill of me When the Spirit was given the Disciples bore one another out of the Church as the Beleevers of Iohns Baptisme and the zealots of the Law and one another in the Church they that did eat them that did not eat and they that regarded a day them that regarded not a day walking together as far as they attained by the same rule 16 No despising for too much learning or too little Let not one despise another for gifts parts learning let the Spirit be heard speak in the meanest let not the Scribe or Disputer of the Law despise the Fishermen nor they despise them because Scribes and Disputers The Spirit is in Paul as well as Peter in both as well as one 17 We may be in one Christ though divers Consider that we may be one in one Christ though we thinke diversly and we may be Friends though not Brethren and let us attaine to Vnion though not to Unity 18 The spirituall Persecution to be forborne Consider there is a twofold Persecution There is a spirituall or that of Beleevers and a mixt Persecution or civilly Ecclesiasticall The spirituall Persecution is that of the Spirit meerly and this kind of Persecution little thought on and studied this is when we cannot be are one anothers severall Opinions or soul-belief in the same spirituall Society or fellowship but they must either be of us or out of us and surely this kinde of Persecution is as unreasonable as any other for what is this but soul-compulsion when another must only beleeve as we beleeve and not wait till the Lord reveale even this This kind of spirituall compulsion will in time breake and dissolve the visible Communion of Saints and Body of Christ exceedingly if taken up or continued and it will be amongst Christians as amongst the Antichristians where they divide and subdivide and some cast themselves into a Monkery from all the rest Ierusalem and Antioch were not of this way to cast out one another upon such grounds but to meet reason and counsell and heare And surely the Churches can ill complaine of a mixt persecution from without if they persecute one another from within the Magistrate may as justly whip them both as they whip one another Such grudgings complainings dissolvings spirituall inforcings gives hint to the Civill power to compell while it beholds them but a little more spiritually coâ—pâ—lling one another Let all Church-rights priviledges boundaries be preserved all Heresie and Schism by the rule rebuked but in all spirituall meeknesse and wisdome and not call Heretick and Schismatick too suddenly since we see but in part THE UNWARRANTABLE WAY OF PEACE Or The Antichristian Designe of Reconciliation 1 To beleeve as the Church or Councels THat all should beleeve as the Church beleeves and this Church is the great Councels of Bishops Cardinals c as if the souls of all were to be saved only in the bundle of theirs as if they could beleeve both enough for themselves and all others 2 To set up one as the Pope for infallibilitie Because there may be difference amongst many and all may not agree therefore there shall be one say they with the Vrim and Thummim one infallibly decreeing and interpreting and unerring to whom the Spirit of Truth is successively derived and his determinations interpretations shall be finall conclusive and this that Vicar of Christ the Pope this one way in the Antichristian State and all Reformed Kingdomes were once under this Peace 3 To allow that all may be saved in their severall wayes Because there be severall Beleevers and severall interpretations and opinions one saying This is the way and another That therefore say some All in all wayes may be saved every one beleeving every thing Now this is one way to make peace but not the way there is but one Lord one Faith one Baptisme 4 To forbid Interpretings and Disputes Because several opinions arise by interpretings and disputings about Scripture therefore all openings of the Word all disputings must be forborne Because the Sun-shine offends some weak sight in the house shut up doores and windowes and make all dark Thus the Papists and Prelats in forbidding Scriptures and Marginall Notes and thus fearing there may be somthing false they will heare nothing that 's true 5 By a compulsive power Some take the Civill power in to make peace reckoning a compulsive Vniformitie for Vnity Peace and Truth This is one way to deale with the body indeed but not with the soul to mind the outward man but not the inward This way of Civilly Ecclesiasticall peace is the Antichristian designe who having got the Kings of the Nations to give their strength and power and Kingdome unto them supplies that from the world which they want from the Word making the spirituall power of Iesus Christ to receive its honour life efficacie power from the power of men This way of peace is such as hath by experience troubled Nations and troubled it self at length too and broken it self against that way which it aimed to breake For whosoever fals upon this stone shall be broken and on whomsoever it shall fall it shall breake them to powder THE OPINIONS OF THESE TIMES With the Exceptions each Opinion may be charged withall being the great Argument for Love Meeknesse and Forbearance one to another or of Peace and Reconciliation till the Lord reveale more Presbyterie So called What it is and what they hold THe Presbyterie is set up by an alleadged Patern of the Eldership and Presbyterie of the Apostles and Elders in the first Churches of the Gospell strengthened by such Scriptures as are in the margin and by allusion to the Jewish Government and to appeals in Nature Their Churches are Parochial or Parishes as they are divided at first by the Romish Prelates and the Statute-Laws of the State Which Parishes and Congregations are made up of such Beleevers as were made Christians first by Baptisme in Infancie and not by the Word And all the Parishes or Congregations are under them as they are a Classicall Provinciall and Nationall Presbyterie And over those Parishes they doe exercise all Church-power and Government ‖ which may be called The power of the Keyes Exceptions 1. THe Apostolicall and Primitive Eldership were not so authoritative over their Congregations as these pretend nor so compulsive or forcing their respective Congregations 2. The Apostolicall Eldership and Presbyterie were more ‖ infallible
of Church-power as is pretended That none ought to communicate in the Ordinances of Christ till first baptized Exceptions against the grounds of the new Baptism 1. THat those places commonly taken for the Commission for Christs Baptisin as Mat. 28. 18. Mar. 16. and where they that now baptize ground their Commission and practice hath no such thing in it For the Baptism there is a Baptism in the Name of the three Persons of Father Son and Holy Ghost and not the Baptism of Jesus Christ alone which the Apostles only baptized in by water as in Act. 2. 28. Act. 10. 48. Act. 19. 5. Act. 8. 16. Rom. 6. 3. where it is still said Baptize in the Name of the Lord Jesus or of Jesus Christ and a Name of any more Persons is not the least mentioned So as to baptize as they commonly baptize in the Name of Father Son and Holy Ghost for Jesus Christs baptism is contrary to the full practice of all that baptized by water as they do as in Act. 2. 38. Act. 10. 48. Act. 19. 5. Act. 8. 16. c. and a confounding Scriptures together viz. severall institutions and practices 2. That baptizing in Matth. 28. 18. cannot properly nor in the word and letter be understood of baptizing by water because there is no more mentioned in the letter or Scripture then meerly the word baptizing and to expound it as they do by a baptizing by water is to put in a consequence and interpretation of their own for Scripture which way of consequences they condemn in all others Presbyterials c. as Will-worship and traditions of men and justly too Now there being no water nor any circumstance in the Text to make out any sense of water as in other places it is an usurpation vpon the Spirit and the Word to put such a sense so infallibly and peremptorily upon the Word which Jesus Christ himself uses in other significations then that of water as in Matth. 20. 22 23. Matth. 3. 11. 1. Cor. 12. 13. 1 Cor. 10. 2. all these places are of Baptism and baptizing yet not one of them of baptizing by water but of Metaphorical and figurative Baptism by his sufferings by the Holy Ghost by the Spirit by the cloud and Sea 3. That Matth. 28. 18. Mar. 16 c. are rather and far more probably to be expounded of the Spirits Baptisme or the Baptism of the Holy Ghost because it seems to be prophesied on by Joel 2. 28. Isai 44. 3. where the Holy Ghosts Baptism is promised to come by Christ and in Matth. 3. 11. Act. 1. 5. Joh. 1. 33. prophesied on to come by John and Christ himself to his Disciples and was fulfilled in Christs Institution and power which he gave in Matth. 28. 18. by baptizing with the Holy Ghost which the Apostles did accordingly practice and by their Ministery was given as in Act. 8. 17 and Mark. 16. 16 17. compared with Matth. 28. 18. doth shew that the Baptism in Matth. 28. 18. is a Baptism of gifts as Mark. 16. 15 16 17. 4. That the Baptism of Jesus Christ by water was only in the Name of Jesus Christ as appears in all the places where such a Baptism was practised as in Act. 2. 38. Act. 10. 48. Act. 19 5. Act. 8. 16. Rom. 6. 3. all which is a Baptism only in the Name of Jesus Christ of the Person of the Son not of the Father Son and Holy Ghost as they now practise and which was never practised as appeares in all the Apostles and Disciples practise 5. That the forme by which they baptize viz. I baptize thee in the Name of the Father Son and Holy Ghost is a forme of mans devising a tradition of man a meer consequence drawn from supposition and probability and not a forme left by Christ to say over them at the dipping them in the water If Christ had said When you baptize them say this over them I baptize in the Name of the Father Son and Holy Ghost and unlesse Jesus Christ had left this forme thus made up to their hands they practise a thing made up by themselves and drawn or forced out of Jesus Christs words in Matth. 28. 18. 6. That to preach in the Name of Jesus Christ or to do things in the Name of Jesus Christ is not alwaies in that grosse manner as it is taken viz. naming Jesus Christ or the Father Son and Holy Ghost over them But in the power vertue efficacy Ministery of Jesus Christ or the Persons of the God-head of Father Son and Holy Ghost as in these Scriptures Matth. 28. 20. Mark 13. 6. Joh. 14. 3. Act. 19. 15 16. Joh. 17. 6 11. Act. 9. 14. Revel 11. 18 So here they are at some more losse 7. That though I deny not but water is a signe and one of the witnesses that beare record and in the Word though not yet cleare yet neither can Christs Institution of water and his own Baptism in his own Person be made appeare out of all the New Testamont nor can the Apostles practise by water yet be fetched from such a particular Institution unlesse from Iohn's And if so I am sure they are then at as great a Controversie one with another concerning John's Baptism and Jesus Christ's making them to be two severall Baptisms 8. That every common Disciple cannot so baptize as the first Disciples did because not gifted or qualified as they were And there is as much necessity to make out the Truth in the same power and way of evidence to an Antichristian estate as to a Jewish and Heathenish and with a Word written as well as preached speaking and writing lying both equally open to question and exceptions without a power glorious working in the behalfe and to the reputation of it Nor is there any one Disciple in all the New Testament preaching and baptizing by way of authority but he was able to make out the truth of his calling and dispensation either by miracle or gifts There are but three Exceptions and they have no weight in them 1. Ananias was a Disciple I answer Yea but he restored sight to Saul and had vision 2. Philip did no miracle to the Eunuch I answer We can neither conclude he did nor he did not from the Word for it is silent but he did miracles in Samaria 3. They that were scattered went every where preaching I answer Who they were or how they preached or what power they manifested is not laid down in the Word neither for nor against The Word is silent 9. That there is not such an Officer as Administrator in the whole Word but Apostles Evangelists Prophets Pastors Teachers Elders Rulers Deacons c. and therefore Administrator is an unholsome Word 10. None ought to give Baptism now because there is none can give the gift of the Holy Ghost with it to make up that glorious supplement of
gifts which it alwaies had and they are joyned both in the Word and practice as in Heb. 6. 1. Doctrine of Baptisms and Laying on of hands and in their practice they were joyned as in act Act. 8. 14. 15 16. And it will appeare in the Word that the Apostles did not so reckon of them single but together as in Act. 8. 14 15 16. where it is said they were only Baptized in the Name of the Lord Jesus but they prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Ghost So as Baptism by water and by the Holy Ghost being joyned together both in Institution Doctrine and Practice are not to be separated nor given in such a time wherein that of the Holy Ghost is not given For what God hath joyned together let no man put asunder 11. That it is as unreasonable to take any such Ordinance of Jesus Christ from any that is not distinctly specially spiritually powerfully enabled as the first dispensers as it is to take the word of any common man charging us in the name of the Parliament and cannot visibly make out a visible Excellency and Supremacy of power by Ordinance or Commission 12. That these Churches who enjoy Christs mind as they think most fully in the practice oâ— Ordinances yet have no greater gifts in their Churches then there are in those called Independent or Separatist Prayer Teaching Prophesying being as fully and powerfully performed in the one as the other And being so Whether must not the Churches of Christ be distinguished by some more visible glorious power and gifts as at first by which they may be discerned to excell all other Societies 13. That the fulnesse of time is not yet come for Ordinances For as there were severall seasons for the givings out of Truth before so now Seeking or Seekers So called What their Way is and what they hold THat there is no Church nor Ordinances yet That if they did not end with the Primitive or Apostles times yet they are to begin as in the Primitive times with gifts and miracles and that there is as much reason for the like gifts to make out the Truth of any of the Gospell now to an Antichristian estate as formerly to a Jewish or Heathenish That such a Belever as can dispence Ordinances must be qualified as the Beleevers in Mark 16. and as the former Disciples were That there is a time and fulnesse for the Spirit and for the latter pure spirituall dispensations as there was formerly for the first dispensations And whether this shall be while the Angels are but powring out their Vials or not or when Babilon is fallen And whether there is not as much need for new Tongues to reveale the pure Origionall to us it being conveyed with corruptions and additionals in Translations by which Truth may be more purely discovered and the waters of Life that now run muddily may flow more cleare and Crystal-like from the Throne of God The Exceptions 1. THat Jesus Christ did promise to be ever with his Church and therefore cannot be reasonably presumed to leave them without Church and Ordinances 2. That if Scriptures were not so pure and cleere to us as the Word of Life were not sufficiently there God were lesse gracious to us now under Grace and Christ come in the flesh then before to the Jews who gave them a Book of the Law which remained with them to the coming of the Messiah 3. That such gifts and miracles were rather for bringing the Word into the world and for glorifying Christs first coming in the flesh then for after 4. That if we must have miracles to make us beleeve and not beleeve any truth till then we must have for every Truth as well as for one or two a miracle to give it evidence and so there must be a continuall and new miracle working for every new beleeving 5. If there must be miracles for beleeving Truth is not of that excellent nature that it seems for if it be not able to make it selfe evident and cast a native and spirituall f shine or brightnesse upon that soule it comes into it is but weake dark and insufficient 6. If Truth be not discernable in it self by its own glorious lightsome nature by beames from it self it is of a worse condition then many things below as the Sun and Stars and Candles c. which bring that light in their own nature and dispensation by which they are discerned 7. If every Truth be a became of Christ the truth then every beame hath light in it selfe because it streams from the fountaine of light and so is discernable 8. That it is more glorious to take evidences from the Spirit then from any thing without which can at the farthest of it self but convince the outward man 9. That all shall now in the last times be in a secret invisible inward spirituall glory no more in grosse carnall visible evidences and materiall beams as gifts miracles And this is to know Christ no more after the flesh 10. No miracles can in their own nature make one beleeve without a spirituall conviction from the Spirit of Christ going along with it so as we see when miracles were wrought some beleeved and some beleeved not So as then there is no such reason for miracles as pretended because that conviction which comes from the Spirit through the work of a miracle may come by any other instrumentall or originall way Or it is a more glorious operation by how much more single or by way of immediate revelation it works 11. To beleeve meerly by the Spirit is far more glorious then by any other outward means though never so outwardly glorious by how much the Spirit is more excellent then any thing else by so much more divine and spirituall are the impressions of it 12. That when miracles are wrought yet a pretender may work a miracle for the contrary like the Sorcerers of Egypt against Moses and Antichrist is spoken on rather to come with signes and wonders of the two then Christ So as here shall be a losse to any that think to beleeve meerly by miracle So as the Spirit is that which must make us beleeve beyond all the power of miracle which can give out its power but upon the sense at farthest being meerly outward and visible 13. That there is no such power for Ordinances as is pretended but Beleevers as Disciples may administer and so did the Apostles and Beleevers formerly as they were Disciples 14. That the Scriptures of the Gospell or New Testament are of such a divine and even Spirituall glory in the Letter as no other word There is a power to discover the reason and secrets of the heart which the reason and heart of man witnesses unto There is a power to convince and accase and terrifie and comfort clearly and undeniably and
â—ut wish one of your experience and abilities like Pant to preach for that Truth which before he destrayed Our hearts desire and prayer should be for any of Israel And for that you say of me in your Observation that I am rather opiniâ—native then passionate I cannot take it so ill from you that will needs be no enemy to me I interpret any thing from such a one on the better side of it But I shall allow you your liberty as my self And if the truth of God may more abound through my opinion as you take it unto his glory I have enough Master Ley's Resolution Page 4 5. I wonder he who hath writ a whole Booke of Policie should be so unpolitick as to think it seasonable since it tends to retard the establishment of Government whereto the Parliament is so much ingaged by Declaration c. by Solemne League and Covenant Art 1. already setting it up in Ordinance for Ordination c. Though the liberty of speaking lengthens the Debates and delayes the Votes c. and so much the more because they are more in number then we and because their determinations are finall as ours are not Answer For some things in my Book of Policy I praise the Lord I can looke on them as on part of the darknesse I was in And I can freely joyne with any in censuring any unregenerate part in me as I esteem much of my carnall reason to be When I was a childe I spake as a childe neither have I any fruit now as the Apostle sayes of some of those things Nor would I have any goe thither for direction but so far as they find Scripture or sound Reason I cannot but give a Caution concerning this Booke because I would have Readers to looke on any thing from me as Luther speaks of himself as I receive in light And me thinks I scarse doe any thing which I could not with Augustine when it is done find something to retract in it either somthing is too dead or too darke or too carnall Thus you see I willingly help you against my selfe and I account it a part of my condition here not to see all at once For the unseasonablenesse of my Quere you alleadge the Declaration of Parliament and the Covenant in Art 1. wherein they are ingaged to endeavour Reformation and the Ordinances c. Now where is my unseasonablenesse The Parliament is endeavouring c. May I contribute my moneyes my vote my paines my informations to the Civill ingagements and not my notions to the Spirituall Are we not to bring in all our disbursements either Naturall Civill or Spirituall into that publike Treasury Though you of the Assembly cast in of your abundance may not the poore ones cast in their mite Are we not by the same Covenant bound to discover any thing against God and the State and the glory and peace of both And if I find my conscience perswading me such or such a thing is not accordingly ought I not by all the Obligatious that are upon me of Gospell Parliament and Countrey peaceably and meekly to speak a word May we discover any thing to the State we conceive of malignity or danger in Civill things and not in Spirituals Is not the Spirituall or soul-liberty the more glorious liberty of the Subject We cannot but speak the things which we have seen and heard saith the Apostle And What you heare in the eare that speake you on the house top saith Christ We know who it was that said Prophesie not here for it is the Kings Chappell And for things of a Spirituall nature we are allowed almost the fulnesse of time for season Be instant in season and out of season saith Paul But What better season could I come in then such a one wherein things were but ripening and moving towards establishment Where nothing is setled there can be nothing disturbed Where nothing is concluded there can be nothing repelled Where nothing is established there can be nothing disordered But since you put me to a further account I shall give it My Spirit was not my own so wholly then but his I hope whose motion I obeyed the Lords Such breathings of Heaven who dare safely quench It is as fire in the bones saies the Prophet and like that of Mordecai If thou altogether hold thy peace at this time c. And whereas you say that the Parliaments determinations are finall That holds better for me who might have spoken to much lesse purpose had I stayed till all had been done and the determinations ended and become finall sure it was time then to speak before determinations were final or never and by your own account too for you are pleased to reckon up the proceedings of State in the businesse of Religion which are such as had I stayed I had had a worse season however as the Prophet saies I have delivered my soule they were you know the foolish virgins that came not with their oyle till the doore was shut Whatever my Oyle or my Lamp was yet I think it not agreeable to the wisdom of that Parable to come and knock only when the doore is not open Master Ley's Resolution page 6 7 and 8. The title of the Quere is baited with Truth and Peace He a private Divine to put such a Quere both of State and Religion and to suggest such a suspition of hast and to tax the Ministers for putting in for a power not consonant to Scriptures and Prudence c. His rendring the originall word metaphorically His artificiall colours Rhetoricall c. And my marshalling his reasons in a right method Reply I have gathered up into one bundle your pieces of a lighter concernment I would not stay tything Annise and Cummin but I hasten to the weightier matters of the Law A word only to each For baiting my Quere with Truth and Peace you allude to Christ's allegory that we are fishers of men and if I have no worse things to bait with then these two Truth and Peace none need I hope be afraid of the hooke And for the proof of them both argument and time will evidence For me a private Divine to put a Quere of State and Religion What were John Hus Wickliff Luther Paphnutius who in their severall ages gave out their testimonies They were but single men compared with Councels and Synods Not that I would compare with them who am lesse then the least of all the mercies of God yet they were but single though singular men And what if a private Divine Jesus Christ may bid a private man stand and speake to the people There is a Law of the Spirit commands to speake as well as the Law of a State and though you speak by the later Law another may speak by the former And what though a Quere both of Religion and State Is not our Covenant mixt accordingly of Religion and State Doth not the State
Because the Discipline is an hedge or wall about the Doctrine a goad to the Means of Grace a curb to licentious courses though with many it go but to the outward man that is not to be imputed to the Discipline but their corruptions c. 4. Because where the Discipline hath been rightly chosen and setled God hath blessed it with better fruits as in Scotland where there is no Heresie nor Schism c. 5. For that of Elihu in Job Why do not daies speak c. it makes not for his purpose but that Wisdom is with the ancient and gray-headed to be heard before young or green-headed Counsellors c. Reply To your first That the fault was in the choyce of a wrong Government c. I answer That is the feare now least there should be a choyce of a wrong Government and so the same fault should be committed again And this very Government hath no Image of Divine Right upon it nor hath it warrant in all things from the Word as your self acknowledge To your second That Doctrine and Discipline go together c. Yea pure Doctrine and pure Discipline go rightly together and if either be impure or unsound there is so much the more danger So as this is an Argument rather against you because where Doctrine opens the conscience and lets in any thing of Discipline but that of the pure Word there is one evill only mended with another And for your instance of a Schoolmaster who both teaches and corrects You know we are not to prove but to illustrate by similitudes And that of a Schoolmaster is a fitter illustration for the Pedagogie of the Law and that Discipline then the Gospels You know the Apostle uses it only to that The Law was our Schoolmaster c. Gal. 3. To that of your description of the Government that it is a curb a goad c. I answer There is nothing you say of Government in these words but may be said of any civill Government nay of Prelacy when it was in its primitive form But that only which you ought to say and that which only differences it from all devised forms of men as your Covenant binds you and ought to be your only reason for erecting and setting it up is this Is it the Scriptures form or model Is the people so in the exercise and capacity of it as in the Gospell times If so then you prove something And further All this you say is true in a kind too of Christs Government but yet in some sort communicable with devised Governments The only distinguishing and essentiall marks are not to be a curb and goad but the Scriptures only mark and image and some spirituall operations c. which no other devised form of man hath To your other of the blessings and blessed fruits in Scotland that there is no Heresie nor Schism there Let Master Coleman our learned and pious Brother speak for us both from his experiences And for that Kingdom time will shew whether it will prove to be a blessing or no to want that which you call Heresie or Schism Surely to be free from Heresie and Schism in a Scripture sense it is such a blessing as the whole Gospell cannot patern What No Heresie in a whole Kingdom No Schism in a whole Kingdom Never such a pure Church heard on Corinth Ephesus Colosse Jerusalem Antioch all not comparable The worst I wish our Brethren there is that all were so pure as we heare on Indeed Scotland had the honour to awaken us first in the work of Reformation and Liberty but lest Scotland should be puffed up England shall have the glory I hope to improve that liberty to a fuller light which some would close up too soon in the narrownesse of a Presbytery Methinks there is something of this nature considerable in the Lutherans who though they follow the first Light in Germany yet the Lord hath suffered them to stick there without a fuller Reformation that the first may be last and the last be first For if a State be covenanted so close to the Word they had need be favourable and free to all that are accordingly covenanted for each mans conscience is the Interpreter in himself of what makes for or against the Covenant he takes and by this very Covenant you are all to be tender to consciences because the Spirit of God not power of men can intterpret the Will of God but in their civill and prudentiall things only they may interpret themselves To that of Job That with the ancient is wisdom and with the gray-headed which you apply in way of reproach to the younger whom you call as it were green-heads I answer That the elder I esteem as fathers and the younger we know are such in whom the Lord speaks more gloriously as he himselfe saith Your young men shall see visions and upon your sons and daughters I will powre out my Spirit your old men shall dream dreams Now whether is it more excellent to dream dreams or to see visions The Lord delivered Israel by the young men of the Provinces Surely we may more safely hearken to the younger that see visions of Reformation then to the elder that dream dreams of it only Master Ley's Resolution pag. 15 16. There is great disproportion of times Men were then converted from Paganism and while they were so they were uncapable Our Congregations in England are professed Christians and though there be many not so wrought on by the Word c. That is rather a reason for the establishment of it Ezek. 22. 26 1 Cor. 4. 21. Prov. 23. 13 14. Nor can Sabbath nor Sacraments be administred without it Reply To that of the disproportion you speak on of times and conversion c. I answer The Apostle's and Primitive times are the times we are to looke at for a patern and modell 'T is true there is great disproportion for they were Apostles who gave the government then yet are but private Divines as you say by me if you be compared with them For that of the conversion from Paganism to Christianity There is no such disproportion there neither but that very proportion which our Saviour hath himself foretold and set forth For how doth a Iewish and Antichristian State differ Nay how doth a Heathenish or Paganish State differ from an Antichristian or Parochiall State as Parochiall or Parish is in that notion Christ hath put them that are out of the Church under that very notion Matth. 19. 17. and the spirit in the Revelation makes the Antichristian State to be as unlawfull as a Paganish and cals out equally from that as from the other as by comparing 2 Cor. 6. 17. Rev. 18. 4. together will appeare So as speaking of things and notions I cannot but speake in a Scripture way nor am I uncharitable in this neither though I thus speak I looke on thousands in this State as godly beleevers It is not the
We are not of those that speake evill of dâ—gâ—iâ—ies or despâ—se government unlesse you count your Presbyterie to be that government and dignitie spoken on by the Spirit and that remaines to be proved That which cannot be proved to be a Scripture-government cannot challenge a Scripture-law to defend or secure it You say If the Byas run most towards government it is but as it should be Yea if towards a Scripture-government else it is as it should not be and not as it should be You say The Bishops government 's put down some must be set up and that is Presbytery But there is one set up already a civill Parliament arie government and will you set up another above that or cordinate with that Will you set up one government to rule another or tutour another And must you needs set up as large a Dominion as the eivâ—ll Power hath Must our Presbytery be full as ample as high and supream as our Parliament Will no lesse territory or Kingdom serve it but all England Whole Nations Must Christs government be just as broad and long as the worlds You find not the golden Read for the Temple of that length Now Reader judg which government affects Dominion Which brings in whole Nations under the Scepter of it Poore Scripture-government can be content to sit down in a Village To the Church in thy house saith the Spirit In a City as Corinth and over but a few there the Saints only in fellowship to the Church in Corinth In a Countrey not over a Countrey so the seven Churches in Asia not to the Church of Asia or the Church Asia a Church taking in halfe part of the world Sure if Christ would have had such a Nationall compreliensive Church he could have converted King and Princes first and they should have given up their Scepterâ— and Kingdoms to Jesus Christ in the way of a Presbyterian Nay it ought to have been so Jesus Christ was bound in the way of righteousnesse to have be un the practice and modellâ— to us over whole Kingdoms having not left it in precept in the whole Gospell and we ought either to have had practice or precept to order and command us in what we obey You say If other Truths be set by it is by those that so oppose Government and not by the Presbyteriall I see the Presbytery must be in no fault Happy men that have nothing but Truth on their side You wish I had more caution in my mind and paper and â— shorter Refutation had served Cautions are not amisse both for you and me and I think you had need of more caution of the two by how much more vast and nationall the Government is you manage You that put yokes upon whole Nations in a day had need to have the cautions of a yeers provision laid in before hand And for your Refutation of my paper do not beare witnesse of yourâ—selfe let Truth judge bet wixt us and let the Reader pray for a spirit of discerning to judge both what is Truth and which is Truth that which you or I affirme Nor will I say I have made here a Refutation of yours If I have done well What have I that I have not received And if I have not the Lord enlighten and enable me to refute my selfe Master Ley's Resolution pag. 36 37 38. To that of his that the matteriall Temple was more clearly left and known then the Gospell paterne c. Answer 1. He would not be thought to side with Sanballat and Tobijah and so endeavours to shew some considerable difference 2. If it beâ—toâ— soon now for the Government will he set a time for it when it will be seasonable or will he have it stay till it be a matter all building or till we have inspired Prophets 3. It cannot be of too quick dispatch if we set it up by the dictates of the Holy Ghost in the New Testament nor the determination sudden if after consideration with Scriptures with the best Divines and collation of the exactest paterns after long debates in the Assembly of Divines where the dissenting and liberty to object and lastly received by Parliament 4. By the builders speciall regard hath been had to Jesus Christ for Foundation c. And now by Master Saltmarsh his consent the work may go on c. Reply You say I would not seem to side with Sanballat and Tobljah You say true I would not But every building is not Temple-work And though I would not with knowledge hinder the Temple of the living God yet if another kind of frame were in building I would do my best to hinder and be no Sanballat neither But they are Sanballats not whom man but whom the Lord counts so But surely they hinder more that set up another kind of Temple then Christs then he that advises to look well that all be right and Temple-worke that is set up To the difference I made of the materiall and Gospell-paterns you say nothing and that is the only considerable It may be as you said by me you are best able to deale with the other You say I should set a time then for the setting it up Yea I shall set you a time yet not in mine own authority but Christ's When your Patern is all Gospell and your people all qualified in that Gospellpatern then is my time for setting up and then is Christ's time too Nor would I stay you for a materiall building as you say You know I call you on to the Gospell I am very far from turning you back to the Law I call you on to Christ I would not turn you back to Solomon And for the inspired Prophets you tell me I stay for and would have you stay too Is not that a very Gospell-way to stay for the Spirit 's coming into the servants of the Lord Take heed of denying inspired Disciples You know it is part of the fâ—lâ—illing of the great Prophecie Acts 2. Indeed some of the Prelates many of them being uninspired themselves and having little of the Spirit or none would needs say therefore All inspirations and Spirituall enlightnings c. were ended in the Church because ended in them and because they were so carnall themselves they thought none was Spirituall And you remember how they made Laws even against the Spirit in Prayer I speake thus only to remember you who spoke most against inspiration and the Spirit lest you may let fall some words which may be taken up by some of that way to countenance them in their Invectives Not but that I esteem of you as one inspired your selfe in a measure and having the Spirit of God in you therefore I know the Spirit will be very tender in opposing the Spirit You say you ought to dispatch the Government because you have followed the dictates of the Holy Ghost of the Assembly and Parliament Then let me put one Question Why is it not called Christs Government Why
SIR FOr the Controversie in substance betwixt us I cannot think the Truth I defended so weak as to need a new Treatise to beare it up I see it is otherwise with you who dare not let your former Books stand by themselves without another to support them It is indeed the way of the Popish Schooles to fill the world with Volumes and Tomes and rather to astonish then convince and this is one thing which hath made the world wonder after the Beast There is no end in making many Books How hath Truth been carried out of sight from the Reader in the Labyrinth of Replies and Rejoynders Your selfe gives us an Experement in this Book for how are you puzled to let the Reader know what was yours and what was mine at first and what is yours again and what was mine afterwards and what is yours again in answer to mine and what Truth is after all this I find it to be the wisdom of the Spirit of God to leave the world a sufficiency of Scripture and Truth but not to write all list the world should not contain it And Pilate was not amisse in that What I have written sates he I have written when they desired him to write more So as things being thus I hope I shall write you as much if not more in One Sheet and an halfe as you have writ me in Seveâ—teen for he that writes anything of Truth more properly writes much then he that writes against it though in more Paper The Summe of your Book is this 1. YOur Epistles which are a competent Treatise of themselves and the very Cisterne of your reasoning from whence you fill all the other Pages of your Book 2. The parrs of my Treatise with your Answer or rather much of your former reply which in things of most weight is no refutation but a reference to other Divines who have writ of the like subject c. it seems you have a common stock of learning amongst you or a Argumentative Treasurie to which you referre us with much ease but I cannot take this for good paiment to be put over to another man when you are bound to pay me your selfe I could turne you over thus to as able Divines as you do me to Mr Tho. Goodwyn Mr Burton Mr Iohn Goodwyn Mr Nye Mr Tombes Mr Prâ—â—â— Mr Burrough Mr White Mr Eator Mr Den Mr Knolls c. 3. The Appendix to your Book writ by a Master of Arts whether your friend or your selfe for I know not whom you make the two letters C. D. to stand for who brings in testimonials of your abilities learning piety good carriage worth c. who methinks speaking so much to your praise as he doth stands a little too neere you we should not seek glory one of another our praise should be of God not of men Thus I have contracted you to save you some evill in the multitude of your words now to your matter 1 THat they should counsell me not to cry down the Government 2 That no Presbytery Parochiall c. assumes such power as the Prelaticall 3 That if the question were rightly stated men would be convinced Magistracy and Christian Liberty would be preserved 4 That I should restore such Tythes if unlawfull as I formerly received because the sin till then is not remitted 5 That I would have men beleeve as they list 6 That he was wished rather to a neglect of me then alloud conquest over me 7 That he had rather consute Bellarmine then my new-sprung Notions 8 Because I am against Logick and Formes of Art I am no right Disputant 9 That I am an Ubiquitary in my Beleefe because of the Opinions set down in The Smoake c. 10 That I am an Antinomian and deales with some late Divines as some with Luther 11 That I am unstable 12 That I glory in the quick dispatch of my worke To which Tertullian and some old Poetry and other Authors with a Story of a Noble-man and a Brewer is brought 13 That my Interposition is like to be no delay to the Government 14 That he may be better imployed then in writing and others shall undertake me To the first 1. ARe you in such feares of your Government that you make friends to me to be silent Is it so weak that it may be cryed down To the 2. Is Presbytery because Parochiall Classicall Provinciall lesse Tyrannicall then Episcopall because many rule in that and in this but one or rather not more Tyrannicall because one Tyrant is not so much as many together Evill in a Community is stronger more diffusive then in Vnity To the 3. Is not the Question of the Presbytery yet stated Yea surely What else hath your Assembly and others been doing Is it not a power in your Eldership and Presbytery how little or large soever over the Churches and Congregations Independent upon the Magistrate coercive to all that beleeve not as they beleeve as to Hereticks and Schismaticks And yet men are not convinced nor is Magistracy or Christian liberty so preserved as you say let both the Magistrates and Christians judge who in the mean time you would be Iudges over To the 4. For my restoring of Tythes now unlawfull to me I have done it I have returned to the State my property of a full yeers Arrearage nor did I take Tythes since I was in Kent but the peoples free composition from the first and being even convinced against that too a yeere since I forbore it But take heed how you put forgivenesse of sin upon restitution for that is not only Popery but like the Pope you would sell Pardons only to the rich and none to the poore and you would put more upon Sacrifice then upon Mercy To the 5. Nor would I have men beleeve as they list as you say of me I would only not have men forced to beleeve as others list as you or your Brethren list I would have Faith wrought by the Spirit of God not by the spirits of men who have no Dominion over Faith To the 6. And why do you speak so of a loud Conquest over me Truth is not conquer'd when the man is trampled on It is not your being great can make you a Conqueror no more then your calling by the Bishops a true Presbyter To the 7. And for your desire rather to deale with Bellarmine then me I did not think I had been so formidable an enemie but I will not presume Indeed Bellarmine is a more easie adversary because he opposes the Truth and I though a weake one may be more considerable because Truth defends me rather then I the Truth for I will rather make it my Champion then my selfe a Champion for it And for my new-sprung Notions as you say call Truth Notion or new or what you will you can never call it out of its own nature or essence And Truth is Gods own Notion neither mine nor yours and new
only to the old man not to him who after God is created in righteousnesse and true holinesse To the 8. Nor am Ilesse a Disputant in Divinity because against Forms of Art and Logick as you say I may dispute in Christs Schoole though refused in the Schoole of Tyrannus And if you will challenge me in any poynt of Philosophy I shall not refuse you there in Logick or Forms of Art They are Forms only for the wisdom of men not the wisdom of God Nor dare I take my discoveries of Christ from Reason nor seek the glory of him in Forms so much below him and fashion the Creator like to the Creature who is God blessed for ever You and I must die more to vaine Philosophie to the wisdom of the Greek to the rudiments of the world I allow Learning its place any where in the kingdoms of the world but not in the Kingdom of God To the 9. For my being a Vbiquitary as you say in beleefe and your proofe of this from the severall Opinions stated in my Book Can you be so unfaithfull to that Book Can you who would be counted an Orthodox and a Divine thus force and compell those Opinions upon me or not rather upon the Paper only where they were printed Because I stated the Opinions of man am I therfore a man of all those Opinions The best is the world may convince you of this and of my purpose in that And now you are thus unfaithfull in a little I may suspect you for more Are you one of those who pretend to be in the Mount with God and to give Laws for Religion Can we trust you in the more excellent mysteries of the Father while you trifie thus and deceive the Brethren To the 10. For my being an Antinomian If to say we serve not in the oldnesse of the Letter but in the newnesse of the Spirit If to say The Law was given by Moses but grace and truth by Jesus Christ If to say We are not under the Law but under Grace If to say We are delivered from our enemies that we might serve him without fearâ— in holinesse and righteousnesse If to say The Commandement is holy qust and good If to say Shall we sin that Grace may abound God forbid If this be Antinomianism I am one of that sort of Antinomians I know no other for my part though you have filled the world with a noise if this be Heresie so worship we the God of our Fathers nor have I mis-quoted any but only singled out that truth from many in one leafe before they spoyled it in the next and like Pilate who asking only what truth was would not tarry by it but departed To the 11. And for my unstablenesse If to be sometimes darknesse and now light in the Lord If to put off the old man with the former lusts and to put on the new If to come out of Babylon when the Spirit cals If to adde to faith vertue to vertue patience to patience godliness c. If to grow in the encreasings of God to a fulnesse of stature in Christ If leaving things that are behind and pressing to things that are before be unstablenesse let me be alwaies thus changing till he who can only change our vile bodies fashion me like unto his glorious body To the 12. Nor do I glory I hope in the quick dispatch of what I do but do not you as well over deliberate as I over dispatch and glory in that But are you no better acquainted with the Spirit in the things of God Are we to be ever consulting with flish and bloud did the Disciples and Brethren when they spake the Word of God tugge first amongst so many Schoole-men so many Fathers so many moderne Divines so many Commentators so many old Poets as you do Or rather only with the Word and Spirit and power of Christ and for that of your Poetrie and your Brewer I desire not to shew so much of the old-man or former corruption as to sparkle so lightly with you To the 13. For my Interposing being no delay to the Government as you say Why do you say then in other places I presented you with a former Book against M. Saltmarsh his Remora And again Mr Saltmarshs Quaere to retard the establishment I pray now be friends first with your self before you be too much an enemie to the truth or to me and though I cannot stand in the way of the establishment I am the least in my Fathers house I am but as the fliâ— upon the wheele yet truth is mighty and of that power as it can weigh heavie upon your Chariot-wheels when you would be driving into the red Sea of persecution and pursuing Israel To the 14. Whereas you say you are wished to be better imployed then in writing they are your friends indeed that wish so you cannot be worse imployed I am sure then in speaking ill of your brethren in advancing your selves in Lordino it over the heritage in tryumphing upon the vantage ground of your place and power in supplicating and at the same time judging the Magistrate or in a word intreating them that they may rule not you or your Presbytery but whom you allow them from your Presbytery And for others undertaking me as many as please for I feare not an host nor a multitude of pen-men I see more for us then against us I know this present Presbytery may have many pensioners there are such great livings of hundreds a yeers to spice the Government the silver shrines had many that cried great was Diana in the Ephesians Master Leys Treatise 1. THe subordination of Assemblies is made good by the learned Book of Mr Rutherford against the Congregationall Independency 2. The subordinate Presbyteries are not Churches out of Churches as yours are not in such singularity with free choyce more conveniencies in Parishes more for preservation of Peace more agreeable to the Apostles Acts 15. more authorized by Parliament That tythes are spoken against by those that scruple not at slander or sacriledeg that they usurp upon God and his Ministers that alienate them from his Worship and Service That Old men are more honourable then the Young therefore called Senators Elders Sages that Dreams are more glorious then Visions because of more Communion with God in the sleep then waking and because of many Divine things revealed in dreames and that John was old when he had his vision That it is lawfull to jest at mis-application of Scripture by Gods example in Gen. by Eliahs by others c. That the other Church-Government comes not under such tryals of the Parliament as Presbytery but is set up without their authority That Gospell-patternes are as much in the Letter as the Legall because written That Mr. Prinn Dr. Bastwick Mr Burton Mr Lilburne were cruelly used by the Bishops Mr Lilburne whipped from Fleet-Bridge to Westminster so cruelly
flying away to a Book of Mr Gataker one of the Assembly intituled A Mistake c. and the Book of the namelesse Author called The Plea both writ against me And a very short ANSWER in a word to a Book by another namelesse Author called An After-reckoning with Master Saltmarsh and to Master Edwards his Second Part called Gangrena directed to me Wherein many things of the Spirit are discovered Of Faith and Repentance c. Of the Presbytery And some things are hinted to the undeceiving of people in their present Ministers By John Saltmarsh Preacher of the Gospell Acts 7. 26. Sirs ye are brethren why do ye wrong one to another LONDON Printed for Giles Calvert at the Black Spread-Eagle at the West end of PAULS 1646. Reader IN this Answer to Master Gataker I conceive thou hast a taste of the true Notion both of the sweetnesse and glory of the Gospell Imprimatur May 26. 1646. IOHN BACHILER To the Right Honourable the Lord Maior Aldermen and the Common-Councell of the City of LONDON Right Honourable MAny who call themselves Ministers and Prophets of God accuse us of Heresie and Schism before ye But I hope ye will take notice they are but men as we are and of like passions with us neither Apostles nor Prophets of the first Baptism or gifts of the Spirit Yet if the Priests and Elders or any Oratour as Tertullus accuse Paul to Festus or Agrippa be cannot but answer for himselfe I have but few words to speak to ye Noble Citizens That ye would in that Spirit which is of God judge the Doctrines of Men and single them from Traditions Customes Councels Synods Interests Ye are bid to try the spirits whether they be of God or no. Try whether it be according to God for some Ministers and those not Apostles to call others Hereticks who beleeve not as they beleeve What will become then of the strong and weak Christian of the children fathers and young men Trye whether they ought to preach to ye to suppresse all but themselves since they are not infallible but may erre and where is the Remedy then if they erre Who shall judge the Iudges Try whether this make for unity of spirit to allow no more fellowship nor brotherhood then in Horme and practice And what will they have ye do if Formes should alter For States may change England hath done so Try whether this make for the glory of Christians to persecute or banish as they would have ye all but themselves May they not as well tell ye that God hath made England only for men of the Presbytery or one opinion to live in and worship in And where find they that Trye whether some by their daily Invectives from Presse and Pulpit against Independent's and others bring not in the Popish Designe in another Forme to divide the godly party both Presbyterian and Independent and so to ruine all Try if all such Doctrine as they commonly preach and write to ye resolve not it selfe most into their own interests profits place power And what doth the Scripture and Histories tell ye of that And now I have done praying for ye That ye may be still a free City and not disputed by the miscelany of Logick and Divinity of some into bondage That ye may be still populous and not your streets growing with grasse through any un neighbourly Principle of Persecution which must needs lose ye many and much resort from this famous City under the name of Hereticks not letting such live beside them That ye may be a peaceable City and not raised up and dashed by any breath of men against the other and greater part of your selves the Parliament England hath long enough broken it selfe against its own walls let it now be our strength to sit still and to stand still and see salvation And since the Lord hath let the most of the successe of the Presbytery which is so much desired come thorow the hands of those and that Army whom they have told ye over often were Hereticks let this be but taken notice on by ye what God hath told ye in the successe of that Army and I trust ye will never regard the Messengers by whose hands the Presbytery in a kind came by beating them out of doores Thus rests he Who would rejoyce in your Peace Prosperity and GOSPELL-unity JOHN SALTMARSH REASONS FOR Vnity Peace Love THe Nations and Kingdoms of the world shall bring their glory to Christ and be at peace with all his according to the Prophesies isai 11 6 7 8. Revel 21. 26. Isai 49. 23. And how happy is that Nation or Kingdom which shall be first in this truth and have rather a peace of Prophesie than Policie a peace of God than man How happy shall this Kingdom be to fulfill any of this Prophesie of peace to one another and to the Saints That all Kingdoms and Nations and Princes and People prospered according to their love to Christ and his Pharaoh for Ioseph Ahasuerus for Mordecai Artaxerxes for Nehemiah and the people of the Iews and those Nations have been ever nations of bondage and tyranny to themselves which became so first to the Saints That Ierusalem hath been ever a burdensome stone and a cup of trembling to all that oppressed her and the stone cut out of the Mountaine without hands too mighty for all the Mountaines of the world And the bloud of the Saints where-ever spilled and where ever found in literall or mysticall Babylon never left crying till that very place had bloud given them to drink for in her was found the bloud of the Prophets That the true Peace indeed is more spirituall and comprehensive then men usually think it and takes in severall natures nations people languages of every tongue and kindred so severall spirits consciences judgements opinions not a Peace only of such or such an Opinion not a Peace only of such or such a Society of such or such a Body not a Peace of Presbytery only nor Independency only nor Anabaptisme only but a Peace of All so far as that all or many may be one which is that unity of spirit in the bond of peace That true Peace is an enemy to all selfish interest and selfish preservation and selfish unity or selfish peace because that when Uinity Peace Preservation gathers up from that common interest Peace and Unity to which they are appointed by the law of Creation and Institution and becomes only their own and not anothers their own peace their own unity their own preservation they breaking that law of the Spirit and Communion of their first Creation each perishes in their single private and unwarrantable way of saving themselves And the eye saith unto the hand I have no need of thee and the head to the foot I have no need of you That there is no such impossibility of being one under divers Opinions as we are made beleeve no more then there was for
those that eat flesh and those that eat herbs for those that regarded a day and those that regarded it not for those that used milke and those that eat stronger meat for those that were zealous of the Law and those that were more in the Gospell to be one or together or to please one another to edefication Did Paul bid the eaters of flesh call the eaters of herbs hereticks or them that regarded a day the others that regarded it not hereticks or them that were zealous of the Law them that were of the Gospell Heretickes or thus Flesh-eaters and Day-regarders and Legalists as we doe Presbyterians Independents Anabaptists That there is so much in every one of these wherein they appeare to stand in need of one another that the Presbyterian cannot say I have no need of the Independent nor the Independent I have no need of the Presbyterian nor either of them say we have no need of you Anabaptist For the Presbyterian may need the Independent because he is for a purer Communion of Saints then he They both the Anabaptist because he baptizeth Beleevers as the Apostles alwayes did They both the Seekers because none of them have these Ordinances by the first patterne in the Word as by Apostleship and Baptisme of Spirit Nor these the Presbyterians because there may be some gift some power of the Spirit some principle of Administration in them which may help the Body and the Common-wealth or Parliament All these because they are all members of the same State That Love is the more excellent way revealed then either the way of Gifts or Ordinances and therefore no gift or ordinance is to be preferred before love Love neither envies nor vaunts nor behaves it self unseemly but beareth all things and hopeth all things and this is that love which is of God and extends it self as God and comprehends and embraces men not as this man or that man meerely not as a man of this or that opinion but because it is love from the fountaine of infinite love it flowes upon all and hath a kind of peace with all and loves all God is love and therefore just and unjust good and bad are taken into something of him seeing he giveth to all things life and breath and all things and the more this love is amongst men the more they love as God and the more large in love and universall in love That love which is only to one kind is but low narrow and naturall the meer love of creatures as creatures but that love which can love those of other kinds as Presbyterian Anabaptist Independent is not that love of a creature only so as the more we love any that are not as we are the lesse we love as men and the more as God That the first and most glorious and spirituall unity is that of spirit and therefore things that are outward formall and perish with using nor any Ordinance were ever made an hinderance to that unity let not Christians think they cannot be One nor in any communion of spirit till they be like one another in the body first and in the Ordinance first which it may be they never shall be for we see God hath hid outward Ordinances deepest from discovery so as they that find most find but pieces and parcels and one one part and another another part and another another part all finde not all because all should not want one another and we find these things last because there was lesse need how many hundred yeares from Christ and nothing of these yet Christ was knowne and some of the more spirituall glory of Christ and if Christians should not be one till they be like one another how little would the peace be even as little as that unity they contend for and what peace would it be but that of flesh and forme the peace of Ordinances not of Spirit I desire this may be considered that according to the first patterne the Baptisme of the Spirit or Gifts and Ordinances were together never asunder from the Apostles times to the falling away and let there be a Word held out for Ordinances by themselves without the like Gifts or else let us be in more unity of Spirit then we are Christians are truly so alike and so one and the same as they are one in Christ in union and spirit one in God as they partake of the Divine nature of the Image of Christ as they are branches in the same Vine members in the same body so God loves all his as they are of him born of the incorruptible seed being the glory of the second Adam quickned by that life that eternall life God looks not nor loves not as men are Presbyterians or Independents or Anabaptists we commonly love so who begin to love at the outward man before the inward God loves us first as in Christ and loves us because in Christ God loves according to the figure of himself in us and so we should love one another if we will love according to God let Papists love Papists only and Prelates love Prelates only because they are so let us love according to that of spirit we discerne by the same spirit in each according to that of love faith meeknesse patience purity faithfulnesse glory which are the fruits of the Spirit let us love as we judge and that is in spirit as spiritually discerning according to fruits of righteousnesse and holinesse not according to this and that forme which is carnall for as he is not a Jew which is one outwardly no more is he a Christian which is one outwardly circumcision and Christianity is not of the letter but of the spirit so as loving thus we should not thinke nor speake against these and these because they are not Presbyterians as we are because they beleeve not as we beleeve and think not as we think Were it not madnesse to fight because we are not like one another in the face in feature in complection in disposition in a word because we are not alike in body and what were it lesse to sight with one another because we are not alike in the Spirit in soule in judgement in conscience in opinion If the whole body were the eye where were the hearing If the whole were hearing where were the smelling The lesse we endeavour this bond of peace the more we shall take in new fuell to our old fire the more advantage and opportunity will be opened to let in the old remainders of the war amongst us which shall be as a train of powder to kindle us into new contentions and thus new divisions will spring out from the ashes of the old and those whom we conquer one day will be conquerors amongst us another day and we shall not know them from some of our selves and all our victories and conquests will be but the enemies design of recruiting our misery they whom we subdue finding the veine of enmity running
are not so to him who hath chosen them nor to him in whom they are chosen And this is the mystery why Christ is offered to Sinners or Rogues or whatsoever you call them they are as touching the Election beloved for the Fathers sake I speak of such to whom Christ gives power to receive him and beleeve on him and become the Sons of God and Christ findes them out in their sins and visits them who sit in the region and shadow of death and them that are darknesse he makes light in the Lord. To your fourth That God may be provoked to wrath by his Children I pray Can God be as the Son of man Is there any variablenesse or shadow of change in him Can he love and not love Doth he hate persons or sins Is he said to chastise as Fathers otherwise then in expressions after the manner of men because of the infirmities of our flesh must we conceive so of God as of one another Can he be provoked for sins done away and abolished Hath Christ taken away all the sin of his Hath he borne all upon his body or no Speakes he of anger otherwise then by way of Allusion and Allegory as a Father c. And is that He is a Father after the fashion of men Or speaks he not in the Old Testament according to the Revelation of himselfe then and in the New Testament of himselfe now only because our infirmity and his own manner of appearing which is not yet so but we may beare him in such expressions and yet not so in such expressions but we may see more of him and his love and the glory of Salvation in other expressions and not make up such a love as you commonly do of benevolence and complacence Did David and Peter as you say make up their peace with God by Repentance Is there any that makes peace but one Jesus Christ who makes peace through the bloud of his Crosse Can Repentance make peace Or Obedience make peace Is there any sacrifice for sin but that which was once offered even he that appeared in the end of the world to put away sin by the sacrifice of himselfe And was not this called by the Apostle One sacrifice for sins for ever Repentance Obedience c. may make way for the peace made already for sin that is in such workings of the Spirit the love of God in the face of Iesus Christ may shine upon the Soule more freely and fully and the more the Spirit abounds in the fruits of it the more joy and peace flows into the Soule and the more the Soule looks Christ in the face so as peace with God is not made but more revealed by the Spirit in obedience and love c. To your fifth That God loves us for his own graces in us I thought he had loved us too in himselfe and from that love given Christ for us and yet loved us in Christ â—op Can any thing without God be a cause of Gods love Doth God love as we love one another from complexions or features without or loves he not rather thus God is love and therefore we are made and Redeemed and Sanctified not because we are Sanctified therefore he loves us We love him because he first loved us he loved us because he loved us and not because we love him not because of any Spirituall complexion or feature in us because of his Image upon us that is but an earnest of his love to us that is only given us because he loved us he loves us from his will not from without for though we are like him yet we are not himselfe and he loves us as in Christ and himselfe Whereas you say God is as man and as a Father I hope you meane not as in himselfe but as in his wayes of speaking and appearing to us and if so we are agreed But your taking things more in the Letter then the Spirit makes your Divinity lesse Divine and your conceptions more like things of men then of God This makes the Gospell so legall and carnall when we rise little higher then the bare Letter or Scripture not the inspiration by which it came all Scripture being given by inspiration To your sixth That Faith is not a persâ—â—sion more or lesse of Gods love and that all may have that I pray mistake not Can all beleeve from the Spirit Can all be more or lesse spiritually perswaded Do I speake of any perswasion of Christs love which is not Spirituall Deceive not your selfe nor your Reader nor wrong not your Author or do I speak of Faith abstracted from all Repentance Obedience c why deale ye thus When you say men may beleeve too suddenly because I presse men to beleeve and you instance in Simon Magus Was he blamed for beleeving too suddenly or for mis-beleeving because he beleeved the gifts of the Holy Ghost were to be bought with money Can any beleeve too soon if some mis-beleeve or beleeve falsly what is that to them that truly beleeve Shall the unbeliefe of some make the Faith of God without effect God forbid Can Christ be too soon a Saviour to us Can the Fountaine be too soon opened for sin Can the riches of Christ be too soon brought home Paul counts it an honour to be first in Christ Salute Andronicus and Iunia who were in Christ before me and the Church in Prâ—scilla's house and Epenetus who were the first fruits of Achaiâ— unto Christ To your seventh That Christ bids us repent as well as beleeve yea first repent Yea but will you take the Doctrine of the Gospell from a part or summary of it as you say and not from the Gospell in its fulnesse and glory and Revelation Will ye gather Doctrines of Truth as Ruth for a while did gleanings here one eare of Corne and there another and not rather go to the full sheafe to Truth in the Harvest and Vintage Will you pluck up Truth by pieces and parcels in Repentance and Obedience and Selfe-dentall and not reveale these as Christ may be most glorified and the Saints most Sanctified and these gifts most Spiritualized and improved Will ye Preach Doctrines as they lie in the Letter or in their Analogie and inference of Truth The Papists Preach Christs very flesh and bloud to be in the Wine And why but because they looke but halfe way to the demonstration of Truth in the Spirit they shut up Christ in one Notion and not in another and so loses the Truth by revealing it in that Forme of words which is too narrow for it and too short of the height and depth and length of it You say We are to try our Faith So say I too if you would not pick and choose in my Book to make me some other thing then you find me But you mean we must try our Faith for assurance as your other words imply and so far I say too but you
will not heare me speak But you would have the best assurance from tryall but so far I say not as you say is that the best Spirituall assurance that is from our own Spirits in part or from Gods alone from our own reasoning or his speaking Can a Spouse argue better the love of her friend from his Tokens and Bracelets or from his owne word and Letter and Seale One of the three that beare witnesse on Earth is the Spirit and in whom after ye believe ye were sealed with that Spirit of promise Can any Inference or Consequence drawn from Faith or Love or Repentance or Obedience in us so assure us as the breathing of Christ himself sealing assuring perswading convincing satisfying I will hear what God the Lord will say for he will speak peace to his Servants A Saint had rather hear that voice then all its own Inferences and Arguments which though they bring something to perswade yet they perswade not so answerably till the voyce speake from that excellent glory To your eighth That I clog men with conditions of receiving as well as you of repenting c. I answer I preach not Receiving as a condition as you do Repenting I Preach Christ the Power and Life and Spirit that both stands and knocks and yet opens the doore to himselfe I Preach not Receiving as a gift or condition given or begun for Christ but Christ working all in the Soul and the Soul working up to Christ by a power from himselfe And if you would Preach Repentance and Obedience as no other preceding or previous dispositions we should agree better in the Pulpit then we do in the Presse To your ninth That the sum of my Divinity is That men may be saved whither they Repent or no or beleeve or no. I answer Should I say to you The sum of your Divinity is this That Faith and Repentance and Obedience are helps with Christ and conditions with Christ to mans Salvation and that Salvation in not free but conditionall the Covenant of Grace is as it were a Covenant of Workes Should I do well in this to upbraib you and those of your way Say not then that I thinke men may be saved that never repent nor believe Why do you thus set up and counterfeit opinions and then engrave our Names upon them Could not I piece up your Book so if I would be unfaithfull as make ye appeare as great an Hereticke as any whom you thus fancy because I preach not Repentance or Faith as you do because I make all these as gifts from Gods love in Christ not as gifts to procure us God or his love or Christ because I make all these the fruits of the Spirit given to such whom Christ hath suffered for to such whom God hath chosen in him because I Preach Faith and Repentance and Obedience in that full Revelation in which they are left as in the New Testament and not in that scaâ—tling of Doctrine as they are meerly and barely revealed in the History of the Gospel or Acts of the Apostles onely where the Doctrine is not so much revealed as the Practise and the Story in Summaries because we Preach thus therefore we are all Antinomians Hereticks men not worthy to live Brethren must ye forbid us to Preach because we follow not with you because we Preach not the Law as ye do nor Faith as ye do nor Repentance as ye do therefore do we not Preach them at all We Preach them all as we are perswaded the New Testament and Spirit will warrant us and as we may make Christ to be the power of all and fulnesse of all as we may exalt him whom God hath exalted at his own right hand And we wish that ye and all that heare us were both almost and altogether as we are except in reproaches CONCLVSION FRom the 29 Page to the last all your Replyes amount not to any thing of substance but of quarrelsome and humorous exceptions and I shall I hope redeem my time better then in making a businesse of things that will neither edify the Writer nor the Reader There are some things you might had you pleased raised up into some Spirituall discourse as that of Works and Signs for assurance c. But you say of your self how becoming such a one as you I leave that you were like an Old Steed which neighs and prances but is past service so as I must take this of your age and infirmity as a fuller Answer or Supplement to what you faile in against me There are two or three things more observable then the rest 1. That you tax me for saying That the markes in Johns Epistles and James are delivered rather as marks for others then our selves to know us by and I affirme it againe not as you say excluding that other of our selves but as I said rather markes for others though for both in their degrees and kindes of manifestation So in James 2. 24. where he saith By Workes a man is Justified not by Faith So in Vers 18. 21. All which set forth Works a signe to others rather then our selves So in 1 John 3. 14. Hereby know we we are passed from death to life because we love the Brethren compared with Ver. 17. 18. shewes That it is a love working abroad in manifestation to the Brethren and yet I exclude not any evidence which the fruits of the Spirit carry in them as in my Book which yet you alleadge to that purpose after you have been quarrelling so long with it pulling my Treatise in pieces to make your selfe worke and then binde it up againe after your owne fashion For your Story of your Lady and your fallacy That she might as well conclude her selfe damned because she was a sinner as one that Christ would save because she was a sinner And durst you thus sport with a poor wounded spirit that perhaps could see little but sin in her selfe to conclude upen Know you not that Christ came to call sinners to save sinners And durst you make use of your Logick to cast such a mist upon the promises to sinners Suppose one should aske you how you gather up your assurance now you are an old man how would you account to us Would you say such a mâ—asure of Faith so much obedience so much love to the Brethren so much Zeale Prayer Repentance and all of unquestionable evidence But if we should go further and question you concerning your failings when you writ in the behalfe of Cards and Dice of the Common-Prayer-Book if we should aske ye of your luxuriarcy in quotations in your Books and Sermons whether all be out of pure zeale no selfishnesse no vain-glory Whether all your Love was without bitternesse to your Brethren of a diverse judgement whom you call Antinomian c. Whether you preached and obeyed all out of love to Iesus Christ and not seeking your own things not making a gaine of
That some of the dissenting Brethren hold Synods Ordinances of God and this Assembly so I know some of our Brethren for the Presbytery hold Infant-Baptism unlawfull and Antichristian and hath better defended it then any yet whom I have read hath answered it And for this Assembly to be an Ordinance of God I thought that had been but an Ordinance of Parliament and stood by that power by which they were called by at first Yet deny not but that consultations for holy ends about the things of God are lawfull by the Word To the Tenth That Presbyteries because not infallibly gifted are of no Divine Right and so concludes against all Presbyteries and Ordinances Yea against all your Presbyteries to be of Divine Right as the first But our question is rather whether the first was any such Presbytery as you now affirme and for ought I see you can no more prove the truth of the Presbytery then in the sense you take it then your Presbytery to be one with it one only in Divine Right not in Divine power or gifts And how are these things sutable To the Eleventh That I contradict the pure Government I plead for by pleading for yours as prudentiall It were true indeed if I pleaded it in mine own behalfe I plead it occasionally for them who will needs have what the State cannot in conscience allow them and yet will not practice any other but what the State shall give them and so trouble both the State and their own consciences and would cast a snare upon both Brethren if ye will needs have the State to allow ye your Presbytery Why are ye not content with what they can allow ye If ye will have a Divine Right which they cannot allow ye why do ye trouble them and sit down under a bondage of your own making But how justly is this yoke come upon you who would have brought a worse upon your Brethren To the Twelfth That the first Presbyters and Apostles c. were not infallible as in divers practices What is this to the truth and gifts they taught and taught by They failed as men but not as Apostles They erred as they were Peter and Paul but not as moved by the Holy Ghost Take heed by opening the Apostles failings to justifie your own you speake not worse Blasphemy then you name in me and make that glorious Word of Scripture questionable which they preached like the words that your selves preach from that Scripture To the Thirteenth That to say the Apostles did advise in place of the written Word is Blasphemy What Blasphemy is it to say that the same Word which they writ and preached the same Spirit spake in them and spake the same truth in them which writ in them And is it so with any of your Presbyters Therefore till the same Spirit speak truth in them so as in the first Presbyters will they challenge the same right the same power Will they have a Divine Right acted by a spirit lesse Divine then the Right To the Fourteenth That the Presbyterians in France Scotland and the Netherlands do not embroyle Kingdoms There is good reason in France they cannot if they would I wish you would walke under the Magistrate as they do and as your dissenting Brethren here and not make him serve you And in the Netherlands do you as they do there and leave your Brethren to the like liberty that is in that State and they will not grudge ye your Presbytery amongst your selves For Scotland they are Brethren I wish no worse to then Truth and Peace and power above their Ministers To that of excommunicating kingdoms being a bugbear You do well to say so till ye be established but you that dare so capitulate with States whom ye are called to advise in things onely propounded what more may be expected upon all your principles I leave to be judged To the Fifteenth That they aske not of the State a power but a liberty to exercise that power Well and will ye trouble the State no further Will ye not intreat them to punish such a one and such a one whom ye judge an Hereticke and a Schismaticke to fine and imprison when you have done with them at Excommunication May the State be quiet if they say to ye go all that are so perswaded as you are and worship and practise as your dissenting brethren and other Saints and trouble not us to provide for your Tythes and Rule for you in things of your own cognizance over Consciences But you would onely have liberty from them your power is of Christ But you cannot so cleare things as you thinke If your power and liberty respectively to your selves and the Magistrate be so distinct why have ye mingled them and confounded them all this while Why make ye the truth and power ye have from Christ wait so at Parliament-doores as Master Case said If the powers on earth will not do for Christ as you would make the people beleeve Why do not ye your selves more for Christ Is it better to obey God or man Thus the more ye would single your selves in your power and right from the Magistrate the more your practice makes an argument against ye To the Sixteenth That I should say 〈◊〉 sound Church Church-officers shall excommunicate and judge of offences and in an unsound the Magistrate and the Inference there I answer I spake and writ so according to your principles not to my owne Nor can I see how you can chalenge such a one entire and simple Discipline exclusively to the Magistrate upon no more true pure and Scripture-principles then your present Presbytery is And I conceive the powers on earth or in the world have to do in every Government that is more of the world then of Christ For if ye exclude them from a part in that Government which is partly prudential and of man you exclude them from off part of their owne Kingdome which is theirs by inheritance and of more Divine Right then I conceive yours to be And whereas you would make us beleeve you stand onely in a pure Gospel strength and power and desire no more of the Magistrate but liberty can this be so in truth when all is esteemed invalid and nothing if the Magistrates power doth not actuate the Ministers power I know you may distinguish of powers Scholastically and Spheres of working for those powers and so tell the Magistrate and us he doth but act in his Sphere when he acts in yours and indeed acts yours making it to be stronger then it is in it selfe But is not his Civil power that which puts life as you think into all your Presbytery Yet he must think he doth but as a Magistrate still as if so be that the Magistrate were made to be rods in the hands of the Church and Swords to be drawn by them and Iron whips at their girdles We are not now as Aarois and Moset we are not