own that is to say howses and possessions and moreouer maye liue of the gospell THat the Anababtistes ar so enuious and do imagine al wayes and forge calumniacions and lyes who dooeth not see that it commeth of a hatered that they haue against the preachers of the gospell that they may crepe in and aduaunce theÌ„ selues eâ—tenuatyng therfore the faythfulnes and fidelitee of the sheapeheardes before the commons because they may the better bee beleued them selues CHristen men whiche are ryghtfully chosen may w t out any offeÌ„ce of god be are rule sith that power is the mynister of god THis power is not onely profitable but also necessarie for christen men therfore we must be obedient vnto it according to the doctrine of christ Peter and Paule THey which wyll not be obedient to the common magistrates and rulers or do resist against them doyng them at any tyme wrong and reproch fulnes be not christen men but Sanlonites THei that refuse to make laufull othes vnto the publike rulers do manyfestlye against the wyl of god beyng autours of sedicion and all dysobedience THe magistrate and rewler hath the sworde from God wherwith he may smite the malefactours and shed the blud of wicked dooers that both the malefactours may be punysshed and the good and righteous liue surely among the wicked THe libertie of a christen maÌ„ is not carnall they therefore that in the gospell do seke carnall thynges and fleshly are the fellowes of Symon Magus VVe doe not learne in y â— gospell that we shuld pay neither rentes nor tithes but that we ought to paie our debtes vnto whom so euer we owe any thyng THe administracioÌ„ of bodily thynges doeth perteâ—ue to y â— magistrates rulers whiche doe christen men lyke whan thei doe after this rule what so euerye will that men doe vnto you doe the same vnto other VVho so euer kepeth this law rule may be and remayne stil a christen man though he receiueth bothe rentes and tithes These articles haue I here put generally because that a great parte of y â— Anababtistes do hold against them â–ª for I know y â— it is impossible y t any man should reherse al their errours sith y t thei be iÌ„finit w tout number For it is no meruel y t thei do fall from one errour into an other seyng y t thei haue not y e same spirite of truthe Whiche thyng causeth y t so dyuerse contrary sectes do aryse among them that the one doeth condemne and excommunicate the other Symon If thou haddest rehersed these articles before them thou couldest not haue done it w tout a 〈…〉 and sharpe answere Ioiada I haue proued my Symon and that a greate whyle a go their poysoned and v 〈…〉 d hertâ—s and tounges bothe ready to all kynd of reuyling and opprobriousues and also more bytter than is any worme wode wher by any man maye coniecte and knowe of what spirite these phaÌ„tastical felowes doe speake But reade thou the thryde chapiter of the epystell of saincte Iames and thou shalte knowe that I saye true Symon I praie the that thou wylt reherse out of this chapiter the thinges y t moste chyefly doe for our pourpose Ioiada These are the wordes of the apostel Who is wyse and endued with knolage amonge you Let hym shewe by his good conuersacion his workes with a gentell wysdome If so be that ye haue bytter enuye and contencion in your hertes dooe not ye boaste of it nor be liers againste the truth For that wisdome is not connyng from aboue but yerthly beastelyke and deauelyshe For where tnuye and contentacion is ther is incoÌ„stancie and wicked workes But the wisedom whiche is from heauen or from aboue first is chaste after peasible meake tretable full of mercie and of good fruites withoute rache or vnaduised iudgement and simulacion Hitherto haue we rehersed the wordes of Iames. Ponder and iudge now whether the holy Apostle did not liuelye describe the fashions and doctrin of the Anababtistes For what do they els but ineth and rayle against other men and that of a despitefull enuye and bitternes oppressing theÌ„ w t preiudicial seÌ„tence and iudgemeÌ„t Sy. They promesse to make an aunswere before any manne and to geue a reasonable accoumpt of their doctrine and learnyng Moreouer that they wyll suffer them selues patiently to be conuicted of errour Ioiada Why dooe they promesse that whiche thei wil neuer perfourm Thou thy selfe haste knowen manye to saye the truthe they doe all of a pretudiciall sentence stiflie and with great pertinacy staÌ„d in their owne oppinions which saied that thei ware sufficieÌ„tly tawght dyd knoledge their erroure and offered them selues to recante yea and dyd forswere their errour And by and by as sone as they ware come to their complyces or felowes thei dyd renewe their heresee and against their othe and all honestye besyde dyd obstinatly defende it What should we doe with suche men Paule sayeth Shunne thou an heretyke after that thou hast warned hym oÌ„es or twyse Their doctrine therfore is a certaine pertenax contention and bitter wysdome suche as Saynt Iames doeth descrybe Symon In the meane season they wyll neuer graunt thy conclusions to be true Ioiada This is that I saye thei be more styfe more obstacle thaÌ„ doeth be come any christeÌ„ men to be But thou that haste lyued most famylyarly w t them knowest wel and perfitly their foundacions where vpon they grounde them selues Symon No Anababtyst better Ioiada I wolde therfore my Symon that thou shouldest now dispute agaynst my conclusions as the Anababtistes are wonte to doe but without stomake and conteÌ„cion I wyll endeuoure my selfe to corroborate and streingthen them with holy scripures and to proue that they be true Sym. Be it as thou saiest For I desire to be taughte Thou shalte haue me also obediente so that I may vnderstande and perceiue y t thy doctrine and teachyng is true ⧠The third treatie or dialoge How that the spirite which repugneth agaynst the spirite that speaketh in the scriptures is not from the father of truth but from the father of lyes the deuels Symon Fyrste and formost I dooe meruell what moueth the to put this conclusioÌ„ where as after myne oppynion and iudgmeÌ„t it is no nede therof Ioiada But it semeth vnto me to be verye necessarye For manie of the Anababtistes doe boaste I can not tel what spirite and father agaynste the manyfest scriptures For whan they perceiue them selues to bee ouer comed with holye scriptures and so holden in that they can by no waye escape by and by they crye oute sayeng that the spiritee teacheth them an other thyng that is to saye eyther to holde theyr peace or to speake forthe some tryflyng matter â–ª and that they bee neyther subiecte ne bound to the litterall sense or letter In the which thyng they dooe no lesse erre than the doctoures of the bysshope of Rome which in matters of fayth wyll
not admyt the scripture to be iudge but referre al thynges to theyr interpretation and spiritee Is not this an hygh blasphemie that a sinnefull man shoulde presume to sete hym selfe iudge ouer the word and wyl of god asthough he ought not to bee obedient vnto it excepte he were moued with his owne spiritee and mocion to reiecte or receiue it I harde ones a papiste doctour openly in a disputaciō saie that we whiche teache the gospell dooe teache the truthe and dyd alowe our teachynge veary well but that he coulde not nor durste subscribe vnto it exrepte our teachynge were adprobated and alowed by the bisshoppe of Rome Beholde my Symon what abhominacion is this that a mortall man shulde take vpon hym to adprobate alowe the diuine and heauenly veritee and set hym selfe iudge ouer god Therfore haue I put this conclusion in the forefront because that the Anababtistes doe for y ◠moste parte boast and aduaunce their spirite vnder such pretence deceiuyng the simple and rude people Symon Doeth not Paule teache this that the letter doeth kylle and the spirit viuifieth or doeth quieken ii Corin. iii And Christe doeth saie Ioan. xiiii The spirite shall teache you all truthe It is spoken by the lorde also Hieremy xxxi Euery man shall teache no more his neyghbour saiyng knowe thou the lorde but all shall knowe hym from the lowest to the hyghest Finally Iohn dooeth saie It is no neede that euery man dooe teache you but as the vnction teacheth you of all thinges whiche is true and is no lye What canst thou saye agaynst so manyfeste scriptures Ioiada To the woordes of Paule I aunsweare thus That Paul speaketh there of the lawe whyche kylleth vs as he dooeth declare more apertly in the .vii. chap. to the Romains And by the spirit he vnderstondeth faith and the consolacion or comforte of the gospell That it is so the texte of the whole chapter dooeth testifie Therefore this place helpeth nothyng your errour For whan we speake of the woorde of god we dooe not vnderstonde the bare and deade letter or voyde sonnde of it but the word well and truely vnderstonded and as it is in veary dede And as for that that Chryste dooeth promesse a spyrite vnto his dysciples teachynge them all thynges wee dooe admytte and beleue it But that spyrite can not bee contrarye to Chryste nor teacheth any other thyng than Chryst hath taught Therfore doeth he adde by and by teachyng you what so euer I haue saied vnto you What dooe these thynges perteyne to the spirite of the Anababtistes whiche teacheth contrary thynges to the spirite of Christe The prophecies of Ioel and Hieremye are vnderstonded of that same spirite that Christe dooeth bothe promesse and geue to his disciples as it is euidently sene in the seconde chapiter of the Actes and the eyght to the Hebrues Iohn in his epistell whan he speaketh of the vnctyon dooeth playnely expounde hym selfe saiynge I haue written vnto you that ye bee not deceyued or that ye dooe not suffer your selues to be brought in to errour whyche thyng will then come to passe if ye dooe stedfastely abyde in the doctrine of the spirite whiche ye haue harde at the begynnynge and swarue not at all from it The holy ghoste is the spirite of truthe which canne neither lye nor repugne against hym selfe beyng all waies constaunte vnchaungeable euery where lyke vnto hym selfe Now no man can denaye but that the same euerlastyng vnchaungeable and holy spirite hath inspyred the holy scriptures in to holy mens hertes and myndes Whereby it foloweth necessarily that the same spirite which speaketh agaynste the meanyng of the spirite that dooeth speake and expresse hym selfe in the diuine scriptures is not of god but rather an humaine mayne affection whyche if it bee styffe maie bee deseruyngly called a deauelysshe spyryte as Chryste dooeth proue agaynste the Iues. Iohn viii Or canst thou thynke in thy mynde that spirite to bee good whiche contemneth the cleare manyfeste pure and holy scriptures and when by them he is conuicted of errour doeth boste an other spirite whiche shoulde teache cleane cōtrary thinges Is not this to despise y ◠spirite of y ◠scriptures and to repugne against hym As though our spirit meaneth truely and the spirit of the scriptures most falsely Where haue the Anababtistes learned to set their spirit against y ◠scriptures yea and preferre hym to the holy worde of god Symon But who hath geuen you this libertee to iudge al thynges after the litterall sence or letter Ioiada That we dooe not as thou doest interprete the letter But we saie that the worde of god conteined in the scriptures of the Bible is a touche stone wherby spirites are tried For what spirite so euer doeth agree with the scriptures is of god the father of truthe And agayne what spirite so euer is contrary to the holy scriptures is of the dyuelle the father of lyes Seyng therfore that the spyrite of the Anababtistes wil not bee ruled by the holy scriptures but preferreth hym selfe to the woorde of god callynge by crafte the woorde of god a bare letterre yea and sette set him selfe iudge ouer it he cānot be of god For if he were of god he would come to light and speake that same thyng that the holy ghost doeth speake in al the holy scriptures But now sith y t he doeth not depende of the scriptures but will be at his own lybertie it is a token that it is a craft and subtiltie of the deuell whiche doeth alwayes scatter repugne against god Sy. Thou speakest these thynges mightily and stronglye but withoute the word of god And this is your familier custome to speake many thinges without scriptures As touching the spirite what he techeth I haue brought and alledged places and testimonies oute of the scriptures But that the spirit ought to be tried by scriptures or rather mācipated and bounde vnto them and not be at his own libertie it is thy parte for to proue Or peraduenture thou dost prefer the creature vnto the creatour Ioi What and yf I should say also My spirite hath taught me this thyng What couldest thou do or say vnto me Sym. But that is not to aunswere Ioi Nor ye do not answere sufficiently when ye bost your spirite without or agaynst the scriptures But in this thīg we do learne that whan it pleaseth you ye vse the scriptures agayne whan ye see to be expede ent ye boaste aud aduance your spirit Whan I affirme that the spirite must be tried by the scriptures I doe not mancipate nor subdue the creatour vnto y ◠creature but I will that the thynge whiche is vncertaine be tryed proued by y t which is certaine and that any spirit be tried by the holy spirit of god that is to saie by the scriptures whether he agreeth with hym self or not And if he be like euery where vnto him self to be receiued if not to be refused
reiected as false deceitful But whan ye speake of the spirite ye doe vnderstond a bare creature For your spirit is not the holy ghost but a carnall affection Sy. Ye dooe yet without any scriptures of the Bible enhaunce and magnifie the letter Io. Not so but rather we here ground ourselues bothe vpon y e scriptures of god and vpon examples Sy. Shew therfore y t the truthe muste be tryed by the scriptures not rather w t a fre spirit without scriptures Io. By thy wordes doe I perceine what thinge doeth begile you that is y t ye do seuer these .ii. thinges beyng vnited inuisebly knitted together y t is to saie the spirite the scriptures which can nor ought to be separated asunder the one from y e other For whē we name y e scriptures we doe vnderstande y e expressed worde of y t spirit For as y e voice or sound of y e worde can in no wise be separated from y e lyuely breth of y e liuing creature So y e scriptures can not be diuided from y e spirit y t inspireth thē for y e scripture is y e expressed wil of god but now wil I bryng y e testimonies places w t thou requirest our lord Iesu Christ vnto whom y e heuēly father did geue witnes from heuen who hath receiued the holy ghost after no measure did not despise y e sciptures in so muche that he dyd corroborate all his saiynges by them onely and did commaund that the Iewes should trye both his woordes and factes by the scriptures Ihon. v. and Luke xvi He biddeth them to lyfte vp their eyes to Moyses the prophetes and not to apparaunte spirites He reprouyng also the Saduceis did shewe that this was the cause of their errour be cause that they were ignoraunt in scriptures or neglected them Mark .xii. The Apostles as we may vnderstand by the booke of the Actes did receiue abundātly in the beginyng the holy gost that by a sertaine visible tokē And yet not withstandyng did thei not therfore forsake or contēne y e scriptures nor boste their spirite against thē But rather did proue strengthen all their sermons with the worde of god preachyng nothyng els but the pure and playne scriptures These thynges are euydently proued by the epistels of Peter Iohn doeth plainely shewe and teache that the spirites owght to be tried whether thei bee of god or not .i. Io. iiii Wherby it is euydent enowgh that spirites owght to be tried and that thei be not so free as the Anahabtistes will haue them And how thei muste bee proued it is manifestly declared in y t place Paule whiche was rauisshed in to the thyrde heauen and dyd learne his gospel of Iesu Christ beyng hym selfe the chosen vessel of god full of the holy ghost and heauenly wisedome neuer the lesse before the kyng Agrippa he doeth testify that he dyd teache nothyng beside Moises and the prophetes Act. xxvi In the epistell to the Galathians y e first chapter he saieth thus if I or an angel of heauen shulde preach vnto you any other thīg then ye haue harde let it be anathema or acursed He also warnyng and teachyng Tymothe that be shoulde beware of false and erroneous doctrines dyd directe and sende hym to the redyng of scriptures But reade thou the iii. chapiter of the seconde epistell to Tymothe and it shall appere what we owght to iudge and thynke of the Anababtistes secte what of the spirite and of the scriptures Sy. That place is knowen well enowghe and I am almost persuaded But this vexed my mynde that Paule saieth that a spirituall man iudgeth all thynges but he is iudged of no body Ioiada I longe to knowe of the of what spirite Paule doeth speake there Symon But I haue leauer to heare it of the Ioiada Considre the woordes y t go before For he saieth thus We haue not receiued the spirit of the world but the spirit whiche is of god that we may know what thynges haue ben geuen vnto vs by Chryst Symon But to what purpose did Paul speke here of the holy ghost Ioiada I aske of the wheather y t same selfe spirite dyd not inspyre the scriptures Symon Truely that same selfe spirite Ioiada Seyng therfore that it is all one and bothe the same spirite that Paule speaketh of here and that whiche speaketh in the scriptures haue I not proued that Paule by a spirituall man did not vnderstond hym which boasteth I can not tell what spirite despisyng in the meane season the scriptures but suche a spirituall man as is and will be ruled and gouerned by the holy ghost that waie that he sheweth and expresseth hym selfe in the holy scriptures He therfore that striueth againste the holy scripture and inspiracyon of the holy ghost can not bee that spirituall man whome Paule doeth speke of Now if he be not spirituall he can not iudge but he muste be iudged The Anababtistes therfore can iudge nothyng but ought to bee iudged and tryed by the worde of god Hathe not here the spirite of the Anababtistes lost bothe his win ges But I do remembre other ii places whiche dooe vtterly stoppe the mouthes of the Catababtistes The first is in the .x. chapiter of the Actes touchyng Cornelius the centurion which although he was elected by god yet not withstandyng beyng so tawght by the angell did sende messangers to fetche Peter y t he migh heare by hym the preachīg of our sauiour Iesu christ If that the spirite should disanulle and abolisshe the scriptures it shulde folow y t this outwarde preachyng and such like thinges wer done in vaine The other is in the .xvi. chapiter concernyng the Thessaloniens whiche after that thei had harde the preachyng of Paule dyd daily seke and serche the scriptures to knowe wheather Paule dyd teache true or not Which thing thei wolde not haue done if the spirites shoulde not be tried by the scriptures wherefore what so euer the Anababtistes dooe teache concernyng this thynge is false and erroneous and not vnlike vnto the errour of Montanus Sym. What monstruous thyng is y t Ioiada This Montanus about .xiii. hundred yeres a go was a great heretike who did almost speake of the spirite as the Anababtistes dooe For thei do cal in again the old abolisshed errours as it shall appere hereafter Sym. Go forth I praie y e and let vs discusse the argumentes of the second conclusion For I can not beleue that none of the saynttes whiche thyng thou doest affirme stifly did thruste them selues into the office of common preachers excepte thei were called What other thyng is this but as the bisshop of Rome hath done in times paste to hyde the truthe frome the commons that none saue onely thei that are learned dare speake and talke of it Where as not withstandynge god did manifest him self to the littell ones and not to the wise Mathew xi Ioiada I will doe it
accordyng to the preceptes of the apostle Donatus dyd gather a particuler Church Nonatus lykewyse bothe in Affrica And yet not withstandynge none of theim both was called or sent by god And their Churche also were no Churches but conuenticles or assembles of Heretikes Symon What thynkest thou by the saiyng of s Paule .i. Corin. xiiii where he doth geue free libertie vnto all men to preache or interprete the Scriptures Ioiada I am of the same selfe opinion that Paule is Two or three sayth he may speake in the church Let the other heare and iudge Finally if it be reuelated to an other syttyng by let the other holde his peace And by and by it followeth For ye may al prophecy one after another that all may learne and haue cousolacion Symon By these wordes it appeareth that Paule dothe not geue libertie to euery man to preache what he listeth whē he nameth ii or .iii. and byddeth the other to heare to geue attendance to that that the Prophetes in the newe Testament suche as do expounde the scriptures are called Prophetes do expounde and set furthe out of the scriptures Nor he doth not gyue lysence to the hearers to interrupte the sermons of the Prophetes excepte it be when any thyng is lefte or peruersly expounded by the Prophet or interpretor By this it foloweth that it is not semely ne comely that any mā shuld interrupt if the truthe be sufficiētly enucleated shewed muche lesse that any man shoulde vnder suche pretence and colour sewe in or bring in his errors I doo see perceiue that the effecte of the matter doeth consist in thys thyng If it be necessary if any thyng be omitted and lefte by them that are Prophetes that oughte not to bee omitted or whiche beynge lefte maye dooe harme and agayne which being shewed may edifi the churche that then it may be shewed vnto them by any mā but that with al sobrenesse and charitie If nothing be wanting or lackynge all the audience to holde their ptace Ioiada Thou takest the ryght sense of it For it foloweth by and by The spirite of the Prophetes is subiect to the Prophetes For God is not the auctor of confusiō but of peace The Holy ghost doth not breake furth rashely with affection and stryfe but is treatable nor he dooeth not styffely contende for euery lyght matter but suffereth him self to be instructed and taughte so geueth easely place to him that hathe better vnderstandyng But the Anababtistes are farre from al such thinges boastyng neuerthelesse a spirit but as Iudas did boast his Apostleship sayut Iames dyd not without a cause warne vs saiyng Let not many masters be among you knowynge that we shall receyue greatter dampnaciō or iudgement that is to say we that are teachers Symon But here thou haste brought me into a greter dout For now I aske the Whether of theym two ▪ is greatter the Prophet vnto whom the spirit is subiect or the spirit If thou sayest that man is gretter then the spirite beware that thou doest not attribute to much to a mortall and frayle man If the spirite is hygher how can that thyng which is gretter be subiecte to a thyng that is lesse If so bee that thou preferrest the spirite vnto men agayne wyll haue the saiyng of Paule to be true I do not perceiue by what reason it can stande Or howe can a man be greatter then the Spirite whiche maketh hym a Prophet Ioiada Thou dooest aske righte well this question But it is to be noted that Paul doeth not here take the spirite for the holy ghost whiche is the thyrde persone in trinitie but for the gyfte operacion of the spirite of God The sense and meanyng of this place is therfore that the gyfte of prophecy is so in the power of the Prophet that hath it that he maye bothe speake holde his peace in the congregacion of the sayntes when and as long as it is expedient for the hearers For they are not so instructed and moued with the spirit as mad and phantasticall men are that they shoulde all cryout at once with an vnsemely clamor murmuryng one agaynst another with a debatefull contencion stryfe For so one coulde not vnderstande another The spirite of God is gentle treatable and peasable not stirrynge or mouyng any man to contenciō and debate but to peace and vnytie Wherfore he sayeth ye may Prophecy all one after another To the which exposiciō Theophilactus agreith interpretynge this place after thys maner The spirite that is to say the grace of the holy ghost which is in thee the operacion or workyng that hath inuaded thee is subiecte to the gyfte or grace of another man which is moued to Prophecy that is to say dothe geue place hearing But now if thou be so pleased let vs go aboute the thirde Conclusion Symon I am well content begynne thou The. VI. Treatyse or Dialogue Of the Vnitie of the Churche against the Sectes of the Anabaptistes Ioiada IChynke that thou wylt say nothyng agaynst the thyrd conclusion For what canne be sayde more truly then that Christ and his Apostles dyd alwayes congregate or assemble the Churche and that thei dyd neuer tumultuate or moue sedision for outwarde and temporall thynges Or is there any man that can say the contrarye Symon I wyl shew hym vnto the by by that is to say Christ whiche dothe saye I am come not to bring peace but the swoorde Ioiada Thou dooest writhe and wrest the wordes of Christ For he speaketh nor these wordes of his Churche that they shoulde disagree within themselues as the Anabaptistes do moue tumulte in those churches where Christ and the Gospell is preached sincerely but doth expres the nature of the infidels whiche doo persecute the faythfull For whersoeuer Christ is preched they that are godly do receyue and embrace him gladly and they that are vngodly doo bothe let and persecute Christ and his Disciples Now Christ doth cal this discenciō a sword which sworde is not among the godly in the Churche but the infidels do vse it agaynst them that ar godly Dothe not Esaie say that there is no peace to the vngodly The cognisaunce or badge of them that ar godly is Charitie Peace and Concord Wherfore the Lorde dothe call them that be peasable or loue peace blessed and chyldren of God Mat. v. Symou I do easely graunte that peace and vnitie ought to be in the Church But that Christ and hys Apostles dyd neuer moue sediciō for temporall thynges thou doest affirme it scantly Ioiada yea and truly also or elles shewe thou the contrary Symon In the .xv. chap. of the Actes we do reade that Paule and Barnabas had no small discencion and reasonyng agaynst them which dyd teache Circumsicion Who wyll deny circumcision to be an outwarde thyng Ioiada I vnderstande call outward thynges that dooe helpe nothyng to our saluacion perteining to the body more then to the soule and
y t beleue In y e ii cha to the Ephe. ye ar saued thorow faith not of our owne selues It is the gift of god and cometh not of our dedes or workes For we ar his owne workmāshyp created in Iesu Christ to do good dedes which he hath prepared for vs to walke in in the .iii. to Ti we wer also folyshe disobediente deceaued seruyng to lustes and voluptuousnes liuyng in malice and enuye hatefull or odiouse and hatyng eche other But after y t the goodnes and loue of our sauiour God not accordynge to the dedes of rightwisnes whiche we haue done but accordyng to his mercye had made vs safe by the fountayne of regeneracion and renuynge of the holy ghost whiche he hath poured vpon vs abundantely thorow our sauiour Iesu christ that we beyng iustified by his grace shulde be made heyres of euerlastyng lyfe accordyng to our hope These places are plaine and can not be auoided For thei that speake againste them are no christen men but felowes of the false Apostles against whome Paule writeth callyng them euyll workemen and subuersours of the gospell of Christ And by these wordes not onely the Anababtistes but also all popishe doctours are noted and whosoeuer besyde doo attribute our rightwisnes and saluacion to our dedes workes Sy. I can saie nothing against the manifest veritee But I wold faine know of the in what reputacion thou haste the epistle of Iames and how muche thou doest esteme it Io. And I aske the first what thou thinkest or what oppinion and iudgement thou haste of the afore aledged places and howe strong thou coūtest them to be Sy. Thei are manifest and true and also strong enoughe and dooe attribute saluacion and iustifiyng to faith but Iamis doeth adscribe saluacion to our woorkes and dedes Ioiada What semeth vnto the then is it right y t many places shulde geue the ouer hande to one or one place to many Symon The interpretaciō of one place must bee taken out of many But what dooeth this to the epistle of Iames Ioiada Had the apostles all one learnynge and spirite Symon All one But I asked the touchynge the wordes of Iames. Ioiada I haue had alwaies in singulare reputacion the epistle of Iames and haue alwaies geuen great credit a faith vnto it though it hath ben suspected by Eusebius and other besyde counted lesse apostolicall But if it be Apostolical it foloweth that it hath the same meanyng and spirit that the epistles of Paul haue For this thou hast graūted before that thei had al one learnyng and spirit moreouer that the places whiche I haue aledged out of Paule and doo adscribe saluacion to faythe and not to woorkes are bothe true and stronge Now it foloweth necessarily that it is not the meanynge of Iames that woorkes shoulde iustifye and saue and that therefore this darke place and saiyng of Iames ought to be expounded by many plaine and manifeste testymonyes of Paule Symon What is that Ioiada That is to saie that Iames dooeth not goe about to proue that workes iustifie and that fayth iustifieth not but that faithe without workes is no faithe but an oppiniō and credulitie or light beleue which faith can not saue And y ◠it is sufficient to saluacion to trust leyne vpon this vaine oppinion It is manifest therfore y ◠Iames doeth not take here faith for that true and liuely faithe whiche faith is a gyft of God and renuyng of the mynde and lyfe but for a false oppinion which foolyshe men do call faith with the whyche faythe the diuell beleueth all quakyng and trēblyng but by it he is made neuer the better nor saued Besyde that he vnderstandeth not humaine or bare workes without faithe but faithe workyng effectually thorough charitee and loue Ponder the wordes of saynt Iames and thou shalt perceiue that he proueth there partly that faithe can not bee without workes partly that faith workyng thorough charitee doeth bothe iustifie and saue Therefore Iames dooeth not disagree from Paule but meaneth al one thing with him agreyng both in one spirit and learnyng Sy. Yet it semeth vnto me that our saluacion is adsribed to workes when it is attributed to faythe For if faith can not be without workes nor workes without faith thei must be all one thyng and that which is attributed to one is attributed to the other Ioia Faith and woorkes are almost so one thynge as the godhed and manhead are one persone in Christe And yet it folowed not that the godhed is mortal because that Christ dyed in very dede vpon the crosse Yet notwithstandyng it is all one persone whyche can not be diuided So we maie speake in this busynesse Faith iustifieth Here faith is taken for the election and grace of God and also for the redempcion whiche is not adscribed to our owne workes though thei can not be separated from faith and which folowyng most certainly of faithe are very sure vndoubted signes tokens of faith and election of god For so Paul doeth speake Whom he hath predestinated them dydde he chose whom he hath chosen them did he call whome he hath called them dyd he iustify And Iohn also We knowe that when he shall appere we shall bee lyke vnto hym and euery man that hath this hope doth make him selfe cleane as he is pure .i. Io. iii. In one sonne there is bothe lyght and heate and the one is not from the other Yet notwithstandyng the lightyng or illuminacion is attributed to the lyght and not to the heate and the heatyng or warmenesse is adscribed to the heate and not to the lyght Symon But the scriptures dooe often and in many places adscribe saluacion to oure woorkes and merites Ioiada That is done not because that the worke shoulde bee barely taken by it selfe but as a woorke or dede comyng of faithe wherby that whiche is farthest and chyefest that is to saie faythe maie be manifested and shewed I aske the can a man dooe any good thynge of hym selfe Symon No. For no man is good but god onely Ioiada And Christ saieth in the .xv. of Iohn As boughes can not brynge forthe fruite excepte they remayne stylle in the vine So ye can bryng forthe no fruite excepte ye remayne in me For without me ye can dooe nothynge Now I aske againe who bringeth forth the grapes and the wyne Symon The vine Ioia If god shoulde take awaie his strengthe frome the vyne and shoulde not worke in it that which we dooe see coulde that vine brynge for the wyne Sy. No. Ioiada The chyefe thyng therefore that geueth wyne is not the vyne but God and yet notwithstandyng we dooe adscribe the wyne to the vyne whereas it dooeth onely come of God Symon I can saye nothynge agaynste the truthe Ioiada It is all one reason when the saluacion and euerlastynge lyfe is attributed to oure owne workes where as it cometh of God onely and of gratuitee and free election For
Sy. At bothe tymes Ioi Neither of them can be trew and I do meruail that so grosse an answere dyd come from the. For seyng that the Soule can muche lesse slepe when she hath put awaye the burdeyn of thâ— body then when she beareth about yet the burdeyn of the body doeth not sleape when shâ— is yet in the bodye it followetâ— that she sleapeth muche lesse when she is deliuered from thâ— bodye And that she doeth not slepe beyng in the body it maye be knowen by thys that in the tyme of wakyng the body doth alwayes without rest quyet worke which actions do come from the soule Ergo it is manifest that whiles that the body waketh the soule sleapeth not And agayn when the body hath geueÌ„ it self to rest to slepe the soule worketh with a perpetual motion or mouyng doeth neuer rest or ceasse either she bretheth or doeth some thynge alwayes withe the vertue of remembraunce vnderstaÌ„dyng or with the other excellent vertues powers All mans lyfe is eyther wakynge or rest in none of them bothe doeth the soulesleape Ergo the soule doeth not sleape at all Therfore slepe longeth only to the body not to the soule For when the soule begiÌ„neth ones to haue life it is a perpetual Entesechia comeyng froÌ„ the euerlasting eternall fontayne of goodnesse the which perpetuall Entesechiia that is to say vnrequietable perpetuall action and mouyng in the soule if any man denayeth by that same reason he must denay the soule Sy. These thyngê are somewhat darke vnto me Ioiada Therefore I wyll declare them by an exaÌ„ple Fyer is a very pure actuall thyng whiche after that it begynneth ones can neuer ceasse from his operacion and workyng tyll it be quenched and that is when it hathe nothyng whervpon it maye shew and exercise his operacion If thou denyest the operacion working of the fier thou hast denyed the fyer The nature of the soule is very like which after that she is poured in to the body by god is a liuely and working spirite and can neuer ceasse nor be at rest Wylt thou haue no fyer take awaye the operacion If thou denyest the Soule attribute vnto her slepe For to say that the soule is a slepe and to saye that the soule is not is all one thyng If the soule slepeth she dooeth rest if she dooeth rest she worketh not if she doeth not worke she is not For to worke and to be in the soule is all one thing â—yth that she is a perpetual motion workyng But the soule is therfore shee sleapeth not Dooest thou vnderstande this thyng Sy. Very well Ioia Therfore did I say that the Aâ—ababtistes knowe not the nature of the soule Sy. Thou shuldest peraduenture haue persuaded somewhat to Timens and Phedrus Platos disciples I had leauer heare Scriptures Ioia The Saduces dyd teache that ther was no Resurrection and by this dyd denye the immortalitie and perpetual workyng of the soule yea and also Angels and all maner of Spirites Act. xiii The Lorde dyd stop their mouthes with these reasons Ye erre sayth he not knowing the scriptures nor the vertue of God God after the death of the Fathers calleth hym selfe the God of AbrahaÌ„ Isaac and Iacob which is not the God of the dead but of the lyuyng and that therfore Abraham and the other Fathers were a lyue and not dead Thei were dead in body a gret whyle afore and buryed Therfore Christ speaketh here of the lyfe of the soule Ergo the soule beyng separated from the body is in her owne kynde worketh lyuely and slepeth not This syllogysme and argument doo I put to all the Anababtistes to answer to that they may cleare them selfe frome the heresye of the Saduces For thei are lyke vnto the Saduces and Manicheans What shoulde I say of the wordes of Christ whiche hangyng vpon the Crosse doeth comforte the thiefe with these wordes saiyng To daye thou shalte be with me in Paradise Sy. Paradise and the Bosome of Abraham are all one thyng to the Anababtistes where thei say that the soules doo sleape Ioia Thei do affirme this with out scriptures and with an hereticall spirite Christ sayeth To day thou shalte be with me in Paradise Ponder euerye worde If Paradice is a sleapyng place Christ sleapeth in it also For he sayeth To daye thou shalte be Moreouer the thiefe prayeth Christ to remember him when he shoulde come in to hys kyngdome If the kyngdome of God is a Dormitorie or Sleapyng place what doo the scriptures speake of the Resurrection and Ascendyng of Christ in to heauen Ye ate obstacle asses O Anababtistes whiche dare make mention of suche sleapyng agaynst so manifest places of the scriptures What shall thei say to the wordes of Christ Iohn v. He that heareth my word and beleueth in him that hath sent me shall not come in to iudgement but is passed frome deathe to lyfe Whiche woordes are so cleare that no maÌ„ can denay them but heretikes Let the .xi. of Iohn and the .xv. of the first Epistle to the Corinthians Item the .ii. Cor .ii. be reade and it shal euidently he knowen that the sleape of the Anababtistes is a blasphemy agaynst the Gospell and Resurrection of Christ Sy. If the matter be better looked vpon the Anababtistes can not cleare them selues from the crime of ouer boldnesse ignorancye but they haue not pondered all these thingê so exactly Ioia Why dooe they presume to teach then take vpoÌ„ theÌ„ that which passeth their strengthe And agayne when they be conuicted wyll not geue the vpper hande to the truthe But because they wyll be sene stedfast they be founde in all thynges frowarde and obstacle To say briefly They doo all thynges with contention arrogancye and ignoraunce Sy. I woulde had questioned with the touchyng the .vi. Conclusion but that I must go to myne Iune Tomorow if thou canst haue leasyr I wyll be here betymes in the morning and reason farther with the. Ioiada I am well pleased for I wyll go to myne Inne also be thou to morow in better readinesse Symon God be with the. Ioiada Fare well SOLIDEO HONOR ET GLORIA â–ª ¶ Thou shalt vnderstaÌ„de good Christen Reader that immediately after this as sone as may be thou shalte haue the seconde Booke whiche entreate vpon as many thynges as this Booke doeth bothe fruitfull to be knowen and also most necessarye for these perillouse tymes in the which the Diuell doeth all that he can to extinguish the trew Doctrine of the Gospell whiche at this tyme thorough our godly Magistrates doeth reuiue and florish agayne Fare well and pray that we may performe the Woorke that we haue in haude