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A44639 The seat of the scorner thrown down, or, Richard Hobbs his folly, envy and lyes in his late reply to my book called A looking-glass, &c manifested and rebuked whereunto is annexed my call from the Baptists, to walk in the true light : and a true testimony to the light and power of Christ in the heart with a few queries to the said R. Hobbs / by Luke Howard ; to which is added a further answer by T.R. Howard, Luke, 1621-1699.; Howard, Luke, 1621-1699. Looking-glass for Baptists.; Rudyard, Thomas, d. 1692. Water-Baptists reproach repeld. 1673 (1673) Wing H2987; ESTC R6501 43,144 60

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they are wrought in God but he that hates the Light brings not his Deads unto it lest it should reprove them And this is my Testimony with my many Brethren and the Saints of old born to the Eternal and True Light of Christ within the Hope of Glory and to my Call out of Darkness into Light and from the Power of Satan to the Power of God in which I stand a Witness for God and against all the Worshippers of the Beast who have received his Mark in their Fore-heads or Right hands and therefore plead for his kingdom of Darkness and against the Light Within These must needs be blind Watch-men of the Night saith Luke Howard who forsook the People called Anabaptists and their Water-dipping upon this Account ANd now by way of Reply in Righteousness to this Night Watchman's Scoffing Mocking and Lying Work who begins in his Title Page saying It is a Sober Reply But a sober Man so made by the Grace of God which teaches Sobriety will not so call a Pamphlet made up of Scoffing and Lying for in his Preface he begins to scoff in these word Charles Bayly sometimes a Prisoner upon the Quaking account in Dover As if Quaking were now become a Scorn and By-word if it be so it is but to the Fools in Heart who are ignorant of the Life of Moses Isaiah Job Ezekiel Daniel Habakkuk Jeremiah Joel and Amos who were Prophets of the Lord and all owned Quaking and Trembling in their Day And in the same Preface saith he But to show what Enormities the pretended Light leads them to c. My Answer is We are Real in our Testimony to Christ Jesus the true Light which lighteth every Man that cometh into the World and this to wit the Light Life and Spirit which moved in the Holy Men of God to give forth the Scriptures which the Scriptures bear witness unto which is the old time came not by the Will of Man but Holy Man of God spoke as they were Moved by the Holy Spirit but the Scripture is not that Spirit nor Life but testifies thereof nor yet this Night Watch-man's imagination of them who gives his corrupt Meaning to Peter's word and so Perverts them saying He meant the Scriptures when he spoke of the more sure word of Prophecy unto the which we do well to take heed as unto a light shining in a dark place until the Day Dawns and the Day Star arise in our Hearts these last words to wit the Day-Star arise in our Hearts he leaves out for against that to wit Light in the Heart are all his Arrows shot this he calls Erroneous a dark Light of the Quakers or any thing what his dark Mind is pleas'd to call it and therefore he may think he hath cause enough to wrest the words and to clip some off for if he testifieth against the Quakers Light as he scoffingly calls it then he must testifie against Peter Paul and John and the rest of the Prophets and Apostles for their Testimony and ours are one as may be seen more at Large in the Testimony following unto which I Refer the Reader Then in his first Page he begins with three or four Lyes first he saith that I said Some new converted Friends aid own C. B. when there are no such words in all my Book Then again he saith But the Men-Friends in the Castle did not own him so much These are his own words not mine to make his foul Work seem fair to make them serve his own End and this he calls My appearing with two faces So here is a Brat of his own begetting in his own Image spit out of his own Mouth speaking his own heart of Lyes in Hypocrisie for I never so said nor meant for my words were these Beside there were some at Liberty which did not own C. B. so much as Rich. Hobbs Reported of as may be seen in the Looking-Glass herein Annexed this his Charging of me with words which I never writ alters the Matter and makes it another thing as any may read that is not Blind Then again he saith I Confessed I owned C. B. as much as the Rest There is no such word in all my Book as may be seen and although these things may seem small as here related yet as they stand in his Corrupt Relation in Print they are Great because they so alter the matter and makes his Relation have a Face of Fairness like Truth but read my words as they stand in my own Book and his words would be found a Lye and that a Lye is in his Right-hand and a deceived Heart hath turned him aside And for these and such like causes to clear the Truth is my former added to this Again in pag. 2. he hath this Lye over again that I and three or four in Prison with me did not own C. B. so much as Friends at Liberty And their he makes Lyes his Refuge and under Falshood he hides himself and when he hath frameth up a Lye he sets it up as a Bulwark to batter against with Replies as if his Lies were mine and this Course this Night-watch-Man takes to make a foul thing seem fair and a Lye which is of the Devil seem true Several more Lyes I could gather out of his Lying Pamphlet in several places where he saith I said Many of his Flock were of his Mind my words were these As many of his Flock as were of his Mind which alters the matter and makes it quite another thing for to my knowledge Several of his Flock were not of his Mind Then again he saith that I know my wife reported C. B. had cured her Eyes when I know no such thing but the contrary and this I can prove by several Witnesses But in this work of bundling up of Lyes I have no delight but as constrained thereunto to place a few of them upon the Lyers Head as a Testimony against the Father of them who i● the Devil for my Time is precious and in the Mouth of two or three Witnesses is every word established And then he goes on in like manner of scoffing Language in his page 13. That I beguile the Reader into Fools Paradise in my saying in the Baptists Looking Glass That the Quakers worship God in Spirit and in Truth which the Devil and all that do his Works of Envy are out of And now if to worship God in Spirit and in Truth be Fools Paradise then what is the wise Man's Paradise seeing the Lord seeketh such to worship him as we do this Day witness Again in Page 10. he saith here is a great Cry and a little Wool A scoffer indeed And in Page 7 he saith I give my Glass a Rub and that to the Purpose too as I think saith he and thus scoffingly he writes these and many more like them not worth answering which I do Return upon his own head who sits in the seat of the Scorner for it is plain
for want of power laying to our charge his spirit which we have deny'd ten years ago O ye Fools so soon as ever the King gives you a little Liberty to meet where you were afraid of man to meet but a little time since and so crept into Cor●ers is this the glorious beautifullest Fruit you have to appear with surely this is not the Wisdom which is from Above which is ●irst Pure then Peaceable and easie to be entreated but that wisdom which is from Beneath where the Serpent's life is which is earthly sensual and devilish which bites at the Heel Surely Dust is and shall ●e the Serpents meat and upon his Belly shall he go all the days of his life ●ere read your selves if you can understand what it means saith ●e who is a true Friend to all mens Eternal Peace Dover the 9th day of the 5th Moneth 1672. Luke Howard A Postscript This Baptist Pastor and as many of his Flock as are of his mind would have all people to believe That the spirit by which C. B. was acted when he h●d err'd in his heart from God was and is the spirit by which all the Quakers are led by as the very Principle of their Religion This is the thing which his printing is for to possess people with a Belief of and he thinks in his Serpent's Wisdom that he hath made it sure enough in saying That he was owned an eminent Quaker at the time of his Imprisenment and running out to which I have Answered already how he was then looked upon by Friends whom he reputes to be a Poor Mis●led and Deluded People but in that Way which he accounts Delusion to w●t Believing in the Light of Jesus which shines in the Heart and 〈◊〉 manifest in every mans Conscience do we worship God in even in th●●●p●●it and in the Truth which the Devilis out of and all which do his works of Envy And therefore something is yet in my Heart to s●e●k t● 〈◊〉 spirit of Envy in the Baptist Pastor as he stiles himself and that on th● wise Christ Jesus was glorified with the Father before the World was and in time manifested to the World in that Body which the Father had prepared him to do his Will in whose Name is call'd the Word of God by which the World was made who took upon him the Seed of 〈◊〉 and declar'd to be the Son of David according to the Flesh but ●he Son of God according to the Spirit by the Resurrection from the dea● who had all Power in Heaven and Earth given to him by which he gave Commission to his Apostles or Messengers to Baptize into the Name of the Father Son and Holy Ghost which is into the Nature and Life of each which is one divine Nature and these three being one in Nature and Beeing and every one which is herein baptized knows the Father and the Son b● the Spirit which to know is eternal Life which is to increase in which they also know John's Ministry and Baptism which was to decrease else there must be two perpetual Baptisms but there is one Lord one Faith and one Baptism which is to be contended for and lived in by all who are of the true Church which is in God the Father of Spirits and of our Lord Jesus Christ the second Adam the Quickning Spirit the Lord from Heaven who in his Body prepared him to do the Will of God in went up and down doing good and chose Twelve and one of them was a Devil not a Devil when he chose him Mark that for when he had part of the Ministry then a Servant of God but he erred in his heart and fell away and it was said Let his Habitation be desolate and let no man dwell therein and his Charge let another take What now Baptist Pastor wouldst thou not here have judged all because he walked and professed among the rest of the Disciples and yet afterwards in eating and drinking with them was called a Devil by him that had chosen him into his Service before in which he had so walked that each Disciple was ready to question himself Is it I and Is it I here would not thy spirit have said Ah! you are all alike led by one spirit here see thy spirit and face thou blind Pastor And Peter he deny'd his Master and cursed and swore he knew him not would not thy envi●us spirit have said Ah! they are all alike and led by one spirit for all ●hey have been a preaching up the Light yet would not thy Pharisaical ●pirit have condemned all for Peter and though he found a place of Repentance what is that to thee and thy judgment against the Truth in this ●ase for Judas found no more place then C. B hath yet found and ●et he had a part and might be and was reckoned a Disciple as well by ●he rest of the Disciples as C. B. was reckened a Quaker by some of the Quakers for to some he was manifest as I said before though you Baptists knew is not And then Demas he forsook Paul and embraced ●he present World what wouldst thou have said less then Ah! they are ●ll alike led by one spirit let them profess what they will for those ●hich said the Apostles turn'd a the World up-side down and contradicted ●nd blasphemed their Doctrine What do you Baptists in this your Work ●iffer from them And those which had the Form and not the Power ●hich were to be turned away from what would thy Jewish spirit ●ave said Ah! they are all alike led by one spirit for they speak ●like and act alike as this blind Pastor said Charles Baily did ●●st as the Quakers in all things both in Words and Actions ●herefore all one spirit said he And then John said They went ●ut from us because they were not of us that it might be made ●anifest they were not all of Us He doth not say They had never ●een among them Mark that but They were not of them ●ere wouldst not thou have been the Accuser of the Brethren and in ●nvy have been ready to have ●rinted against them and have ●aked Ten Years back to have proved them that went out from them to have been of them at such a time and at such a time and especially at that time when they held out their Golden Cup of Profession in good words as you do Here may you see your selves if the God of this World hath not blinded your Eyes And then in the Churches there was some Fault found with the most of them in some things if thou Pastor of Dover-Baptists hadst been in those dayes and heard of it would not this thy spirit have said It is all their Principles and one spirit leads them all as thou dost say concerning the Quakers against whom thou watchest for Evil both in words and action and then bringst it forth Ten Years after it is done so much out of Time that it
Certainly had R. Hobbs taken a dose of Opium he could not have more intoxicated his Brains then he has by this Occasion of Contest And to see an instance hereof take his own Words 3. In pag. 1. of his Reply speaking of his Antagonist we know not saith he but that he owned Bayly as much as the Rest did well them where 's the Owning Said R. Hobbs pag. 1. It appears by their then affirming and justifying him to be led by the True Light as they did by their hearing him preach and devoutly joyning with him in prayer Is this proof sufficient Said R. Hobbs pursuing the Question If this be not a sufficient proof they own'd him I know not what is or can be sufficient nor do I know any Rule the Quakers have by which I shall know when they own one another Here our water-Baptist tells us if this be not the Quakers Rule ●o own one another he 's at 's wits end for he knows no other But what will not he turn back and shew us his other side yes after R. Hobbs has told his Reader this fair Tale that L. Howard own'd C. Bayly as much as any and the only proof of owning him was by joyning in Prayer c. and if that was not sufficient Proof he knew not what was he bringing again an Objection of L. Howard that he and some more were in Prison did not own him so much observe L. Howard uses not that Expression of so much but its Hobbs his Forgery which Negation of L. Howard the Author thus answers If by so much you mean you did not joyn with him in his Devotion I grant it for your Restraint from him hindered you in that What 's now become of the only owning all this so much faln in the Dirt by a down-right contradiction How well then our Water-Baptist has proved his Charge upon his Antagonist I leave it to the Considerate Reader But more of Confusion I have not often found in so brief a Writer And I cannot but take notice of this Impostors Confidence that in despight of all his forgeries and lying Citations of L. Howard's Answer to his first confused Relation yet he 's so audacious to affirm that he says no more of Luke then he himself confesseth when Luke Howard's words sentences and expressions are as opposite to the Water-Baptist's protests and averments of them as Light to Darkness it self R. Hobbs let me advise thee as a Friend to receive Luke Howard's Book and thy own Reply and pass Just Judgment upon thy own Work if not give me thy Reason Let not thy Zeal and rage against us so blind thy understanding to produce such monstrous effects and after thou hast inspected thy own untimely Birth and seen as well as thy Reader of how little weight thy way of Argument is to rectifie the mistakes or resolve the Doubts of the unprejudiced and unbyassed Inquirer at this day Answer me whether if thy old piece of envy and new-vampt story of C Baily were really true as to him-wards what do's it more concern us then the many hundreds that about the year 1660. and since Apostatized from you yea many of your Pastors and Teachers that have Revolted and some to that Perswasion you frequently stigmatize us with all as being most obnoxious to the Gust of the people We have generally forborn to put them and their Miscarriages in Print as being weak Arguments to found Religion knowing that as well in the primitive times and the first Apostolick dayes as in these Latter Ages there were still such who made Shipwrack of Faith and a good Conscience and caused the Name of God and his Truth to be blasphemed and evil spoken of and so it is now But why dost thou quarrel that an Account of our Friends dealing with C. B. was not daily brought to thee It s more then the Roman Priest's themselves desire of persons not nearer related then thou and us Must thou be a Confessor else no plain dealing must we acknowledge to thee all passages of Christian Care to one or other else justifie an Evil-doer strange Inference It s scarce that time of Day when thou hast power command it till then thou and thy Calumny rest together I cannot but observe how natural it is for this water-Baptist to correct his Antagonist yet himself double guilty of being more like a Scold then a sober Christian truly next after a personal knowledge of both I recommend their Books to the Considerate Reader who may with ease determine where the fault lies besides Luke Howard's solid behaviour in Dover has not bespoke him the scurrilous term of wanton and lewd Ranter as this wicked water-Baptist most falsly insinuates whose upright Life and sober Conversation never merited such unjust dealing from this Traducer or any other And so I Justly Charge it upon him as a false Accusation And to evidence what spirit he is of the very dialect he writes in and his own Work will easily Discover Have we more Modest Expression from him then the vilest or debauchest of men canting at us as if meer Lascivious and wanton It he mentions the Women of our Friends guibing at them thus Their Female Companions and such like airy Epithetes if Sufferers upon the quaking account and quaking Principles with many more out of that Treasury of Envy and Hatred which in store he has long horded up against us and now belches it out as an unsavoury stink in the Nation I have read over the whole Discourse of two Sheets and truly I think the Press is not very often troubled to so little or so ill purpose and did not the Covetousness of the Printer exceed the Ingenuity of the Writer I Judge he had never passed h●● pittiful Pamphlet As to what is more in his piece it s either such as falls under the apparent nullity of the Forgers Arguments or with the confused heaps of his meer Imposturs and Abuse And if any thing else remains deserving Regard 't is in the Knowledge of such whose personal acquaintance with the Forger and Fact can more properly answer if not stop the Mouth of this envious and confused Babler with whom I leave him and his Piece as they see cause for further Reproof and Examination London the 1st Mon. 1673. Thomas Rudyard A Postscript THe Word of the Lord came unto the true Prophet Ezekiel against the false and foolish Prophets who followed their own Spirits and therein prophesied Lyes and false Divinations and caused people to Err And he said Wo unto the Foolish Prophets who follow their own spirit and have seen nothing And God said Mine Hand shall be upon the Prophets that see Vanity and that divine Lyes they shall not be in the Assembly of my People Ezek. 13.1 2 3 6 7 8 9. And hath raised True Prophets in this Age to cry against the False Prophets and particularly against Charles Bayly who was many Years ago judged and denyed by the Prophets and Servants of the Lord because he prophesied Lyes and false Divinations by the Leadings of his own unclean spirit which ruled in his deceitful Heart and because of these things he hath been shut out of the Assemblies of God's People in Scorn called Quakers for many years although he sometimes appeared amongst them as the false Apostles and deceitful Workers did in the dayes of the true Prophets and Apostles appear amongst them and as the true then judged and denyed the false so have we done unto C. B. in and with the Light Life and Spirit of God and of his beloved Son Jesus Christ and in and with the same we do and shall judge all Dreamers and Prophesiers of Lyes and false Divinations who follow their own corrupt sinful and unclean spirits from which the Mysteries and Secrets of the holy pure God lie hid And now Richard Hobbs who sayst That C. B. was led by the Quakers Spirit in that Delusion which he was given up to If by the Quakers Spirit thou dost mean the Quakers Light which thou so much scoffest at which I have cause to believe by thy own words in thy Book thou dost mean then I do tell thee thou dost speak Blasphemy against God who is Light and against his beloved Son who is the express Image of his Substance Brightness of his Glory For I do tell thee and all others unto whom these Lines may come That we the People of God called Quakers have never preached up or directed any man or woman unto any other Spirit or Light wherein and whereby Salvation is brought unto the Immortal Souls of Men and Women but the Spiritual Light of God and Christ who is that Light who lights every man that comes into the World John 1.9 and 8.12 1 John 1.5 6 7. God who commanded Light to shine out of Darkness hath shined in our Hearts to give us the Light of the Knowledge of the Glory of God in the Face of Jesus Christ and his Treasure have we in Earthen Vessels that the Excellency of the Power may be of God and not of us 2 Cor. 4.6 7. W. G. THE END
save from Sin and the power of Darkness and Death which rules more or less in the Hearts of all the Children of Disobedience to the Light and those be they that rebel against the Light they know not the Way thereof neither do they abide in the Path thereof for to him that believes it is a Path shining more and more unto the perfect Day and in it doth the Lord meet with Man thou meetest him that rejoyceth and worketh Righteousness in thy Way and he that is the Light of men is the Way to the Father and he that knows him knows the Father also for he reveals the Glory which none of the Princes of this World by their earthly Wisdom can come to behold or ever could but we behold his Glory say they which had believ'd in the Light and were Children of it which by the wise Men were accounted Accursed and that they knew not the Law and so it is now To you it is given to know the Mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven but to others in Parables To you which believe in the Light and so receive the Power to walk in it and know the Way of it the Just Man's Path which is a shining Light and rebels not against it To you is the Father become a Fountain unsealed to you i● the Wel-spring of eternal Life opened to you is the Power given t●●ec-me the Sons of God now are we the ●on of God but it doth not ye●●ppear what we shall be now can we call God Father and cry to bi●● in ●iving Sense of his b●getting Power for dayly Bread that we may be strengthened with might in the inward Man and that his Kingdom may come which comes not by Observation as lo here and lo there neither doth it stand in Words but in Power and consisteth of Righteousness Peace and Joy in the holy Spirit And that you may have Fellowship with us herein is the Travel of our Souls and that you may know him whom the Father hath given to be a Leader and a Commander to all that receive him the Light and quickning Spirit and him that hath this Hope purifies himself as God is pure and hath the Witness in himself by his continuing believing and Walking in the Light where the Spring of Eternal Power is witnessed to become the Sons of God without Rebuke and now if we walk in the Light as he is in the Light then have we Fellowship one with another mark that and the Blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all Sins and this is the Fellowship which the Saints in Light have with God in the Church which is in God and one with another by one Baptism which is our entrance by the one Spirit into the one Body of which Christ Jesus is the Head World without end And this is a Plain Faithfull and True Testimony born through living Experience to the true Light of Christ Jesus which we in scorn called Quakers believe in and declare of to all men in the Love of God and of no other saith Luke Howard Here followeth a few Queries for this Night-Watch-man to Answer according to Scripture before ever he be by his Neighbour searched out the third time and found again as he hath twice been already a raking in the Bottomless Pit to fetch up Matter against the Light of Christ Jesus 1. VVHether the Light of Jesus be not the Light of Men and a Measure of the Spirit of Truth given to every Man as a Talent to profit withal and whether it doth not convince the World of Sin of Righteousness and of Judgment and is not the Condemnation of all that believe not in it seeing that the Condemnation is that Light is come into the World and men love Darkness rather then Light because their Deeds are evil II. Whether ever we called Quakers ever declared of or testified to any other Light then that which John called the true Light which lighteth every man that cometh into the World we saying with Paul That God hath shined into our Hearts with it to give us the Light of the Knowledge of the Glory of God in the Face of Jesus Christ and if we or any People else believe not in it then is●t not the Condemnation of all such but if we do believe in it we have the Witness in our selves even the Light Life according to the Scriptures which we do believe are to be fulfilled III. Whether all that oppose the Light in the Heart be not Opposers of the Life of Jesus seeing that in him is Life and his Life is the Light of Men and whether all that gain-say and oppose this Light of Jesus be not Fighters against God and Blasphemers against his Temple and the Worshippers therein and so have no part of the Inheritance with Saints in Light IV. What is the Word in the Heart that Man may hear it and do it and what is that Word which is said to be the Name of Christ Jesus the Power and Wisdom of God by which Word we may come to know him who is from Everlasting to Everlasting the same yesterday to day and forever V. What is the Manifestation of the Spirit which is given to every man to profit withal if it be not the Light within and what is the Light which lighteth every Man if it be not the Light within and what is the Quakers Light if it be not that which every Man is lighted with seeing thou makest a Difference crying out The Quakers Light and Wo be to him that walks by the Dark Light of the Quakers VI. What is the Grace of God and where doth it appear which brings Salvation that hath appeared unto all Men mark unto all men if it be not the Light of Christ in the Heart and whether th● Quakers have not a share in that Common Grace as well as others seeing it is to all Men then what difference between the Quakers Light and all mens in the first Gift to man VII What is that Leaven which the Woman took and hid in three Measures of Meal until the whole was leavened and what is the Grain of Mustard-Seed which a Man took and sowed in his Field the least of all Grains and grows the greatest of all Hearbs and what are the Fowls of the Air which lodge in the Branches of it And what is the Pearl hid in the Field and what and where is the Field and who is the Merchant Man and what is that he parts with for the Field and how and with what doth he dig deep to find the Pearl And what is the Groat the Woman lost and found again when she had sweeped her House and what is the House and Broom with which she sweeped And what is that Talent the Housholder gave to his Servants and then himself went into a far Country for a time and then at his return again called them to an Account And what is the Draw-Net cast into the