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A70289 A short answer to a book called The fanatick history published with the approbation of divers orthodox divines (so called) and dedicated to the king by Richard Blome (against the Quakers) : which being examined and tried, is found to be a packet of old lies, many of which was seven years since presented to the Little Parliament, and since to other parliaments and protectors, which by us was answered and confuted in the year 1653 many other lies and false reports is gathered up since by them, which herein is answered and disproved : and herein also is a short relation of the twelve changes of governments which have bin in this nation in those eight years, under all of which we have suffered and been persecuted for that truth, which we yet stand witnesses for, against all its opposers / Richard Hubberthorne ; James Nayler. Hubberthorn, Richard, 1628-1662.; Naylor, James, 1617?-1660. 1660 (1660) Wing H3232; ESTC R6755 22,690 31

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Christ hath given to some discerning of Spirits and the Spiritual man judgeth all things as saith the Scripture 1 Cor. 2.15 1 Cor. 12.10 and this Privilege the Saints had by the Spirit of Christ in them and the same we witness every one according to our measure as we have received the same Spirit 1 Cor. 11 12. And thou chargest one Nicholas Kate to have said 1. That Mariage was made by man 2. that Christians were worse than Beasts 3. that any woman was as free to him as his Wife 4. that his Wife was no Wife of his she was a Limb of the Devil 5. that he was holy and all things that he touched were holy 6. that when the fullness of time was come he should work Miracles To which we say the man we know not neither the truth of thy Accusations for they may be as false of him in these things as thou art found in many other things concerning others yet to the first of these we say that though true Mariage be of God and that which hath his blessing yet there be too many Mariages at this day made without God in the lust To the 2d we say that there be many who are called Christians that by nature are worse than Beasts and b● practise also though none deserve the name of Christians truly but such as are in Christ Jesus and being sanctified by his Spirit such are holie as saith the Scripture ●or the rest we leave it as that which is none of ours Thou further accuses us for saying that the Redeemer of man is not that Person the Son of man that dyed at Jerusalem but the light which is in everie particular man c. To which we say thy Accusation is false for we own no other Redeemer but that Person the Son of God that dyed at Jerusalem who is the light within us and the light of the world as he said of himself Iohn 8.12 though this be a mystery to thee and tha● which has been hid from Ages even Christ in us the hope of glory Col. 1. Again thou accusest us for saying The Scripture is not the way to find out the knowledge of Christ but a turning the mind within c. To which we say Christ is the way the light and the life and no man comes to the knowledge of him but by the Father Mat. 11.27 nor to the knowledge of the Father but by him though men without both may read the Letter as the Jews did whom thou tells on and their searching of the Scripture who for all that never came to the knowledge of Christ nor would they come to him that they might have life So ignorant is flesh and blood of his way and knowledge from the Letter and therefore we do say that without first turning to the light and Spirit of Christ there is no comming to him nor his knowledge Luke 10.22 And for the Blasphemies thou chargest against us as first that we say we are equal with God as holy just and good as God himself and this thou sayes was affirmed by George Fox and James Naylor before Witnesses To which J. N. sayes thy Charge is utterly false concerning me who in the presence of God can say that I never spoke these words secr●t nor open nor did it ever enter into my heart so to think of my self It is true George Fox was accused at Lancaster of saying that he was equal with God and to his Answer we refer you for satisfaction as it is in Sauls errand Page 10 11. Which answer is in these words Answ. That was not so spoken but that he that sanctifieth and they that are sanctified are of one and the Saints are all one in the Father and the Son of his Flesh and of his Bone this the Scripture doth witnesse and ye are the Sons of God and the Father and the Son are one and they that are joyned to the Lord are one Spirit 1 Cor. 6.17 they that are joyned to an Harlot a●e one fl●sh But as for saying he was as holy just and good as God himself this was never charged upon him And many other such false charges are laid upon us which we are not guilty of and which there is no proof for from our words or writings as that we should say that we are more perfect than Christ and that Christ is a sinner and that we should call the Apostles carnal men with other things of that nature which wee neither thought spoke nor writ and so these things being disowned and disproved by us is returned back again to be condemned with the accuser of the brethren from whence they did arise Again as concerning the dispute at Cambridge which thou mentions in the Fanatick History put forth by T. S. that is answered and his false accusations disproved by George Whitehead in a book called The Key of Knowledge not found in the Vniversity of Cambridge which is to be sold at the Black spread-Eagle in Martyns And also the false Relation of the disputation at Sandwich is answered and the truth of it clearly declared Again concerning thy relation in the 11. Chapter of the Phanatique History of the Petition of divers Ministers in Westmerland c. the substance of clamors therein expressed and the charges against G●o Fox and Ja. Nailor is fully answered to satisfaction of those that desire to understand the Truth in a book called Sauls Errand which is to be sold at the B●ack spread Eagle at the West end of Pauls And as for thy Narrative of publick proceedings against the Quakers in divers Counties and Cities and how they were imprisoned without the breach of any Law and for speaking the word of the Lord as they were moved and because they could not swear and because they were signs against pride these things doth all testifie for us how innocently we have suffered and how unchristianlike they have been that have so persecuted us for doing the will of God in love to their souls who have thus hated us And our being so hated persecuted and imprisoned by the Powers that have ruled in this Nation do plainly shew unto those of understanding that they have wanted the Spirit of Christ Love Meeknesse Mercyfulness and have shewed Cruelty without Mercy therefore the same measure which they have given unto others is justly come upon themselves and he that would provoke the Magistrates now to persecution as others that have gone before them they would bring them into the same Cause of Condemnation for which the Lord God might justly cut them off as he hath done others which would not be warned in their day untill their time was no more A short Relation of the twelve Changes of Government that hath been in England within these 8. years under all of which we have suffered Persecution SInce by the Lord we were called chosen and separated to be his People and had unto us committed the word of Reconciliation and
the light which condemns it in every enlightened Conscience and there will clear himself to be no Author nor Actor therein and I know by the Spirit of Jesus which I have received and which worketh in me that this is not his work nor his seed nor in him that loves thy Enemies thou art not but the old accuser of the Brethren it is that worketh strongly in thee and in the light which thou reproaches art thou seen to be the man that makes lies and carries tales to shed blood Ezek. 22 9.12 Again concerning the false charge in Chapter the 5. pag. 108. concerning the Quakers in North-wales That some Quakers had such swellings in their Bodies shreekings and howlings that not only frighted the beholders but caused Dogs to bark Swine to cry and the Cattel to run about Answer this Charge is altogether false and not a word of Truth in it as we who live in North-wales and have been constant at them meetings do testifie John ap Iohn Roger ap Iohn and as for William Spencer that is false also that any humming or hissing was heard by him or that any Quaker did lay his H●ad on his Shoulders or Blow towards his Mouth as the F●ther of Lyes hath said in the Phanatick History Page 109. Again also in t●e ●ame Page is another Slander cast upon the Quaker● saying that in October the 9th 1654. in Durham a Minister prayed amongst them his Legs trembling and that they roared in a strange and hideous manner which is false for there was no such thing as many can witness who was present at the meeting And in Page 110. several Lies is repeated without any proof as that one Bu●nt the Bible and another appeared in Essex in such a sh●pe a● c●used them to break up their meetings Another concerning James Purnell in Colchester that when he would have eaten could not which is all false and there is no proof for any of those things but the false Accusations of our Opposers as for instance R. B. his Quaeres is brought for a proof to the first as Quaery the 10th Do not some of you say the Bible ought to be burnt c. Our Answer is No for it ought to be read believed and fulfilled and yet the impudency of those t●at put forth the Phanatique History is not ●shamed to say that we b●rn the Bible or disswade men from reading it but all People who are not given up to b●lieve Lies may know to the contrary and may know that there is no People in the Nation that doth more honour the Scriptures by living the life of them and fulfilling that which they speak than we do and that shall be our chief Witness against all our Oppose●s and Accusers whereby they shall be ashamed Again whereas several is accused ●s for going naked Nakedness is a sit sign for you who are covered with Lie● and Unright●ousness and as the Prophet Isai●h was called of the Lord to be a● a sign to the Aegyptians and Ethiopians first in Sackcloath and then naked and bare foot and to walk so for three years as a sign and wonder amongst them Isaiah 20.2 3. which things would have been a Subject for those pretended Orthodox Divines to have published Books from and so to have accused him to be mad or a Phanatick or bewitched as they do accuse some now which do it in obedience to the Lord and as signs unto them And those that do thus accuse from the ground of enmity they must be as much uncovered from that Veil of Darkness that is over their Hearts before ever they see God as ever any Quaker wa● naked or uncovered outwardly and when that comes to passe the Scorner will leave his scorning and the wicked man his way and turn to the Lord and will leave reproaching of the Quakers Again others are accused for comming into the Church so called and for working of Needle-work Answer whether is it better to do the thing which is usefull and lawfull than for a man to preach for hire in that place which is a thing which God hath alwaies declared against since that sinfull practise came up for it is that which in all Ages hath grieved his holy Spirit and hath b●en testified against by his Prophets his Son and his Apostles as you may read Isaiah 56.10 11. Jer. 5.30 31. Mica 3.11 Ezek. 34.1 2 3. John 10.12 Titus 1.10 11. And God is yet bearing his Testimony against all such both by words and actions for they that preach for filthy lucre do not serve the Lord Jesus Christ but their own Bellyes as the Lord is now plainly making manifest unto many thousands and will also manifest it more and more Titus 1.10 11. Many other Lyes and false Accusations is gathered up in this Phanatick History Page 114 115. and no proof for any of them but that lying Book called Hell broke loose put forth by Tho. Vnderhill whom God did manifest his indignation against for while he was gathering up those Lyes now published in the Phanatick History before he could perfect his work God cut him off in his wickedness and so that Scripture was fulfilled upon him The wicked shall not live out half his daies and all those that do succeed him in the same work shall receive the same reward for God is just and will reward every man according to his work Which Lies and Accusations in that Book related is answer●d by Francis Howgill in his Book called The pits mouth stopped c. Another false Slander is charged upon the Quakers that in September 1659. there was a discoverie of divers Witches in and near Shirebourn in Dorset shire there being near two hundred of them at one meeting most of them Quakers and Anabaptists and that five of them was committed to Dorset shire Gaol and have confessed c. and saith likewise that they did torment bewitch and destroy Mr. Leyford Minister of Shirebourn tormenting him with a sharp painfull Disease that he dyed and that Mr. Bamfield his Successor they forced by their Witchcraft to desert the Town Answer here thou hast proved the Ministers to be under the power of Witchcraft and not in the power of God and so no Ministers of Christ for they could not be bewitched but had power over that unclean Spirit A● they would have if they were in the power of God But there was no discoverie of any Witches amongst the Quakers neither was there ever any of the Quakers that ever did confess or wa● proved to be Witches for the Quakers is in that life and spirit which the Devil and Witches have no power over and therefore it is that the Devil Witches False Prophets Hirelings and Deceivers is so inraged against us and so these being but all forged lies which may be manifestly known to all people which desire to know the Truth doth prove nothing against us but doth fulfill the Scripture which saith that all manner of evil
that Moses and Josh●a was Tyrants and Oppressors and so will they do unto the King now who are seeking to cleave unto him by Flattery and Deceipt which if he denie to be the Patron and Defender of their lies will crie as much against him so that he or they are blessed whose Ears are not open unto their Clamors but whose Hearts are joyned to the Truth and who is led by the Spirit of God as their Instructor for such shall discern Hypocrites and False-hearted men under every pretence of Flattery or Dissimulation for the Folly of these begins to be manifest unto all men 2 Tim. 3.9 Now as in Answer unto the History concerning John Tolderrey asserted by a company of Priests as Brooks Cocking Goodwin Jenking J●comb Alderrey Tombs and Pool whom themselves say that they have but perused a part as pag. 99. and yet pretend to witnesse the whole whose witnesse is disproved and denied by the same John Tolderrey both by his own Book given forth from him and by his Life and Conversation being now a living witnesse not against but for the Way Doctrine Principle and Practice which the Quakers do live in against those lies published abroad concerning him And as for thy Charge thou hast against J. N. through the everlasting mercy of my God I have yet a being amongst the living and breath to answer for my self though against the intents of many bloody cruel Spirits who pursued my Soul unto death as much as in them lay in that day of my calamity when my Adversarie was above And wherein I was made a sign to a back sliding Generatio● who then would not see nor hear what now is comming upon them but rejoyced against this piece of Dust and had little pity towards him that was fallen into their hands wherein God was just in giving me up for my Disobedience for a little moment as a Father to correct yet should not they have sought to aggravate things against me as thou dost for it was a day of deep distress and lay sore upon my Soul and the pitifull God s●w it who though he was a little displeased ye his thoughts was not to cast off for ever as it is at this day glory be to his name from my delivered Soul eternally And in that day there was many Spirits flock'd about me and some whom while my Candle shone upon my Head I ever judged and kept out from me who then got up and acted and spoke several things not in the light and truth of God by which they who sought occasion against me then was strengthned to afflict this Body he that watches for evil in thee and some others makes use on still against Gods truth and innocent people whose Mouths the God of my mercy stop and so finish the trouble of my heart as to that thing for my Soul hath long dwelt among Lyons even among them that are set on Fire whose Teeth are spears and ar●ows and their Tongues a sharp sword speaking mischievous things to shed blood But oh man or men what ever you be whose work it is to gather together the failings of Gods people in the time of temptation or nigh● of their tryal and aggravate them and adde thereto the wickedness and mi●chi●vous lyes of your own hearts as thou hast done in thy Book and then come out with those against Gods everlasting holy truth it to reproach I say you are set on work by an evil Spirit and you do but shew your selves to be enemies to God and his Children And it is our sorrow that any of us should give such Spirit● occasion to Blaspheme and it hath been trouble of Soul to all the people of God that have ever loved righteousness when they thus have occasioned the Joy of the wicked or to feed that man that watches for iniquity and feeds on mischief yet know this you that art of that brood God will not cast off his people though he be sometimes provoked to correct them even before their Adversaries which is a sign to them yet is his anger but for a moment and his favour shall return as streams of life Then shall the food be taken out of the mouth of the Viper and the prey from between the Teeth of the Devourers and God shall feed them with their own vomit the poyson that hath long lain under their Tongues shall be bitter in their own Bowels thus will God certainlie plead with Zions Enemies as he bends her Sons for himself and God will make up her breaches And this hath my Soul seen Jacobs Captivitie restored and the Diggers of the Pit are fallen therein neither hath he smitten him as he smote them that smote him Or is he slain according to the slaughter of them that are slain by him but this is all his fruit to purge away his sin So he that had long watched for my faltering then got advantage against me yet had I then power to bear his utmost envie through Christ Jesus whom I then confessed before men who then was my support in all and under all and who is over all blessed for ever of all who have proved him in the depth But that which was and is the sorrow of my heart is the advantage the Enemy then took against the name of Christ his Truth and his despised People in that time of Temptation which is that which thou art now persuing with hatred and lies as that I had a Woman in bed with me the night before I suffered at Bristol when there was six or seven Persons in the Room that night and a man to wit Robert Rich in bed with me But this and several other false things thou hast written in thy Bo●k of which I am clear before the Lord so they touch me not at all nor shall I here mention them against thee in particular but to God alone I look in his time to be cleared fr●m all offences in his sight who only knows my heart in this thing in whose presence I can say that nothing is more odious and burthensome to my soul than that any of that glory or wo●ship which belongs to God or to Christ should be given to fl●sh and blood in my self or others and how it was with me at that day many talk of but few knows so the Judgement of such I bear desiring that none in Judging me might have condemned themselves in Gods sight whose Counsels are a great deep and the end of his works past finding out till he himself reveal them but in the end he will be Justified of all and in all he doth that all flesh may be silent before him And however my self or many others may be left to themselves to be tryed in the night yea should any utterly fall or whatever may be act●d by any man or woman that is not Justifiable in Gods sight yet in vain dost thou or you gather up sin or watch for iniquity to cast upon