Apostles faith was so strong as it needed no meanes to stirre vp the same And I would tell you you say vntruly but that your skore is so full that now you be desperate Of these two bastardly propositions conceiued and brought forth by your selues and not by me you frame a Contradiction saying therupon that I will turne â—re I burne yea with the turning of an hand turne the cat in the pan and then you tell my pupils they may be pestilent proud of such a turne-about tutor Here wee may beholde as your honest dealing with me so your eloquence and modestie Besides I auouching the Apostles strong faith after Pentecost able for miracles whatsoeuer and therefore vnlikely the Lord should appoint a peculiar course for them for so short a time as from his transfiguration till then you collect from hence the weaknes of their faith till Penticost which I graunt you and more then that namely that their miraculous faith was vtterly extinct at this time And therfore no vse of fasting and prayer for the extraordinarie work but onely as it serued to the vsual maner of the Church in this case But you wil proue the apostles miraculous faith might faile aâ—ter Pentecost because their faith failed sometimes in doctrine and 〈◊〉 That we may vnderstand your meaning what do y◠〈◊〉 by Doctrine what by iudgement Doctrine vsuall is publike teaching and instruction Iudgment priuate thinking and opinion Did the Apostles erre in publike teaching You saye The Apostles and bretheren which were in Iudâ—a thought the word of God was not to be preached to the Gentils Act. 11. 2. You ground this ouâ— of these wordes And when Peter was ascâ—nded to Hâ—erusalem they of the circumcision contended against him VVho contended with him The Apostles say you but without any warrant from the text It seemeth S. Luke hauing mentioned the Apostles in the first verse doth of purpose in the second vse these generall termes They of the circumcision to distinguish these contenders with Peter froÌ„ the Apostles It may be the Apostles did not yet â—o clearly vnderstand this mistery yet it is not likelie they were in this caâ—e no more but equall to the weake brethren whereby theâ— should ioyne in contention with them Grant we also an errour here it was only in iudgement not in doctrine And as for Peters not going rightly to the truth of the Gospell it was not error Gat. 2. 13. 14 either in doctrine or iudgement but a timorous dissimulation for the time Iohn his falling downe before an Angell was errour through Râ—ue 19. 10 sodaine passion not proceeding from setled iudgement much lesse auouched in publike teaching Considering therefore these places proue not that the Apostles erred in doctrine and iudgement and that the Lord doth principallâ— promise that the Spirit of truth should lâ—ad Ioh. 16. 13 14. 26. 1. Cor. 3. 10. Ephes 2. â—0 them into all truth and bring all things to their remembrance which Christ had told them whereupon they be called Skilfull Maister-builders and the Church is said to be built vpon the foundation of the prophets and apostles It is admirable you dare so considently auouch such an assertion vpon so little or rather no warrant and of so dangerous consequence You childishly cauill at my speech where I say Their faith did not faile them after they receiued the holy Ghost in â—ag 127. c That fâ—â—nesse as if I had attributed such a fulnesse to theÌ„ as is not incident to a creature and yet I expresly distinguish it by note of restraint Act. 7. 55. 13. 9. Luc. 1. 41. Act. 2. 2. 4 That fulnesse that is such a plentifull measure as I had spoken of before Such an one as was said of Stephen â—hat hee was ful of the holy Ghost and of Paul and of Elizabeth when shee brake forth into that heauenly salutation of the blessed virgin that she was filled with the holy ghost The same is said of Zachaâ—y when he prophecied and of the Apostles that they were filled with the holy ghost And all these in the Concret but in the Abstract without all limitation to haue the fulnesse â—f the Spirit belongeth onely to a diuine person the Father the Sonne and the holy Ghost So that whatsoeuer person hath the simple fulnesse of the Spirit the same is God as well as hee who hath the fulnesse of the Godhead Of Christ his fulnesse to whom the Father hath not giuen his Spirit by measure do all the elect receiue not the fulnes it selfe but grace for grace that is graces or gifts of the Spirit heaped vpon graces euery one according to the measure of the gift of Christ some eueÌ„ vntil their cup runne ouer All which discourse when at last you pag. 133. conclude that howsoeuer the Apostles were subiect to errour yet they could not posâ—iblie erre sâ— long as they heard the voice of Christ and but followed the onely directions of the spirit of truth And that they did neuer vniuersally erre Moreouer that they did neuer â—â—cline from the foundation it selfe lastly that they wâ—re recalled from their eâ—râ—ursâ— what singular thing do you ascribe to the Apostles that is not common to all beleeuers Are not the Apostles to be preferred aboue all other Ministers of the Gospell and beleeuers since theire dayes Yet you seeme to put them in the very same raâ—ke Nay you say in the top of the same page that there â—e some Fâ—stâ—noniâ—s of the Apostles which onely but slipped from humane infirmities and that these â—ow glorious soeuer in shew are not the testimony of Iesus therfore not the spirit of prophâ—cie you speake here very daungerously that I say no worse You argue the defect of the Apostles miraculous â—aith from their pag. 135. Act. 4. 29 30. 9. 40 〈◊〉 8. 8 praying in working miracles which rather is an argument for the continuance of it For if it had â—in vtterly extinâ— it had not bene to â—e obtained by prayer but if you say Prayer declareth the â—eaknes of it and that you meane such weaknesse as without prayer haâ— not beene able to effect the worke it is false 〈◊〉 hath beene oft â—emembred vnto you but if you take weaknesse for some lesse measure of Matt. 17. cheerefulnesse which had neede be stirred by inuocation of Gods holy name I graunt you such a weaknesse but this is too weake to strengthen any whit your cause you charge mee falsly in saying I denie that the apostles faith might did faile before they were filled with Doct. pag. 46 48 Doct. 49 pag. 136 the holy Spirit I know not how oft I affirme this which you say is the very point I denie Neither do I say it was but fortie dayes betweene Christ his transfigiâ—ation and Pentecost I do writtingly let passe manie of your lies it is a trouble to repeate them you see no inconuenience to approper these words This kind
you mention their swelling arising from the Mother their foming from the Epilepsie their extraordinarie strength from mania c. and so had a compounded disease percase of as manie seueral diseases as they had seueral effects Tel vs also whether you haue seene one partie afflicted at the same time with Melancholy Lunacie Phrensy Epilepsy Mother Convulsion and the Crampe Besides whether you haue known such an one diseased with all these grieuous maladies restored againe naturally to his health in one day When you haue resolued these doubts we wil hold our selues satisfied for this argument In the meane season it remaines for all your answere in as ful force as euer it did And here we may obserue how all that they prattle both here and else where of diseases whereby they woulde perswade that the passions of the Demoniaks were not supernatutural but might wel proceed from some natural disease themselues do ouerthrow in affirming they are Counterseits Againe I shewing that The toyes and fooleries and blasphemous speeches vttered by the parties in their supernaturall passions could not come immediately from God and good Angels and therefore no doubt from the diuell You answer first They were not supernaturall effects but this is your Cuckow song oft auouched neuer proued with anie reason that might so much as beseeme William Sommers one too renowmed in his time Secondly that this supposed impossibilitie pag. 15. for either God or good Angels to effect any such fantasticall vaine and filthy effects is too grosse and absurd Indeed you are the Maisters of absurdities you may bestow one where you wil as this is a notable one and not to be named that one should imagine the most Holy Lord and his holy Angels should immediately by themselues worke filthy effects The blasphemies which arise from hence are not to bee remembred There is neuer any filthinesse committed but either by the filthinesse of our corrupt flesh or by the working of vncleane spirits farre be it from vs we should once let it enter into our thoughts that it did first issue either from the fountaine or froÌ„ the streames of puritie The Lord his iudgements are tied to a seemely maner of effecting rightly vnderstood which you denie that is that all his iudgements should bee effected by meanes best beseeming their nature as iudgements of committing sinne are wrought by sinfull meanes the Diuel and wicked men and such like and not immediately by holy meanes for this was to confound light and darkenesse holinesse and sinne together It is lamentable that anie carrying the name of Ministers amongst vs should be so impiously blind and yet more lamentable that they which will sit at the helme wil suffer such impieties to be offered with their authoritie to the world Thirdly you answere That these vncleane effectes do no more argue an vncleane spirit then those holy effects as Confessing of Cor. 11. 4. Christ and Expounding the Creed argue an holy spirit As if you had cleane forgotten The diuell can transforme himselfe into an Angell of light If you had remembred this and your old crosse-row That there is no reasoning from contraries in common attributes you would neuer haue bewrayed such intolerable babishnesse Lastly say you All this inferres noreall inherency because the diuel can worke greater matters then these remaining without concerning which wee Pag. 15. 16. wil see God willing in that which followeth Againe wheras is vrged the Diuels entring in going out of the partie possessed you answere All these speeches and whatsoeuer text can possibly be alleaged throughout the whole Scriptures concerning either Angels or Spirits or Diuels are to be taken metaphorically and for â—ob 1. 7. Matt. 12. 43 Pâ—t 5. 8. this purpose you bring the diuels compassing the earth his walking through drie places and his roaring like a Lyon As if because in these places there is some Metaphor therefore all other must bee metaphorical too Nay then let vs conclude because these texts of Scripture be metaphorical therefore all the Scripture is metaphoricall and not onely those mentioning Angels and Diuels And so we shal reuiue the wickednesse of the Libertines of the Family of loue and of the Suenckefeldians acknowledging no literal sence of the Scripture but a figuratiue meaning inspired into themselues which only with them is the word of God VVhen you disputed of the Serpent in Euahs tentation you contended indeed The Serpent was onely meant figuratiuely yet seemed after to reiect this opinion and I liked well of it But I crie you mercie now I vnderstand you more fully Wel then the Angel Gabriel came to Marie and brought tidings of her Luc. 1. 30. Luc. 1. 12. c. Luc. 21. 43. conceiuing the Sonne of God was this done Metaphorically Was there also no such thing literally done as is reported the same Angel spake to Zachary concerning Iohn the Baptist whom hee should beget Was that in figure too that the Angels comforted our Sauiour Mar. 9. 22. before his passion Belike when the Diuel cast the child some time into the fire sometimes into the water there was no such matter Mar. 5. 7. indeed but onely by way of Metapher And when the Diuel cried VVhat haue I to do with thee O Iesus the Sonne of the most high God this voice was Metaphoricall Howsoeuer these and many like Scriptures are canonized by you to bee Metaphoricall yet your selues Metaphor are most properly a couple of the absurdest Dunses that euer put pen to paper You goe on and labour to ouerthrow the literall entring of the Diuel because in Marke it is said There was a pag. 17. 1 19. Mar. 1. 23. man in the Synagogue in an vncleane spirit If the words say you bee taken literally then the man was essentially inherent within the diuell I answere Neither are these wordes taken literally neither for this cause is the entring of Satan mentioned else where to be vnderstood figuratiuely The same thing may bee and is vttered sometimes by figure and sometimes by proper speech One while our Sauiour Christ cals himselfe The way and a Doore In another place he saith That they which beleeue in him shall not perish expounding in plaine tearmes that which is spoken by similitude else where As for this Scripture To be in an vnclean spirit is not as a thing coÌ„tained in a thing containing as water in a vessell and such like but to be in the power of an vncleane spirit as our vulgar tongue expresseth fitly when we say Such an one is in a Feuer M. Beza in opening the meaning of this speech vseth this selfe same example and you your selues call it A very apt resemblance Seing therefore it fitteth so wel let me demaund of you when we say A man is in a Feuer whether you thinke the feuer is within or without him You had thought to haue played you with this feuer but it shaketh you a little better then you were aware
means to certaine men whereupon it must needs follow that there being an Apistia an vtter defect of miraculous faith in these Disciples it was not to be recouered by fasting and prayer You answere It was not 1. Cor. 12 9. begotton without meanes because it was giuen by inspiration of God By which you make the holy Spirit to bee a meanes whereas a meanes is but an instrument And the holye Ghost together with the other two persons of holie Trinity is alwayes a principall efficient Thus you confound heauen and earth together make nothing in the world to be done without means neither any thing in the world to bee more then ordinary for whatsoeuer is done by the same vsuall and neuer ceasing meanes must needs bee reputed ordinarie There be few places in the fielde more replenished in the spring with stincking nettles and weedes then your whole booke with such poyson full Hemlockes as these But with all we haue a Discourse of an Habituall Actuall miraculous faith pag. 114. whereof the habitual is begotten by the Spirit and the word Seeing therefore these causes cannot alwayes be effectlesse and that they be euer working in the Church till the end of the world it cannot be auoided but that Miraculous faith should be in the Church for euer And the rather if we consider what by your saying miraculous faith is which you define to be nothing els but an vndâ—uted perswasion by which we firmly beleeue that there is nothing impossible to God But all the faithfull do vndoubtly beleeue this and therefore we haue still Miraculous faith remaining amongst vs and shal haue so long as the Church soiornes on earth yea the very diuels beleeue this and so hauing miraculous faith by your leaden rule shall bee workers of true miracles I adde they which were endued with the miraculous faith had besides the perswasion of Gods omnipotencie an vndoubted perswasion of the will of God for the effecting of the wonderful matters which besides or contrarie to nature they atteÌ„pted for the good of the Church Now for as much as the knowledge and assurance of the said will of God is not to bee had from the word therefore the written word is not the onely ground worke of miraculous faith neither doth it come by the hearing thereof as you affirme For Actuall faith you will haue it a speciall motion from the spirit of God raised vp extraordinarily whereby the action of faith shall not proceed from the Habit as from the next cause as the action of iustice cometh from the habit of iustice and so in all other qualities of that kind but there shall be something in Actuall faith extraordinarily more then was in the Habituall If a man had your sharpnes he might quickly go beyond Actius Nauius that cut the whetstone in peeces with his rasor For the increase of miraculous faith by means it is but needles to stand vpoÌ„ it coÌ„sidering we affirm an vtter defect therof at this time in the disciples not some couered sparkes remaining in them to be raised into flames by fasting and praier For true miraculous faith how litle soeuer is able with out these helps to atchiue her desined worke But then you will say yea in effect do say that the Apostles did superfluously ioine praier pag. 116. with it I answer no more superfluously then the Church doth ioyne Sacraments with the word Faith of it self is sufficient to apprehend Christ vnto saluation and this faith is begotten by the word Yet Sacraments haue their necessary vse not to inable faith to that which it could not with out them but to confirme and strengthen it to doe her worke more cherfully and with fuller assurance Praier is the general instrument to be vsed in all holy workes what soeuer and therfore the Apostles had warrant for their praier were free from all will-worship therin I omit here pag. 117. 118 for breuitie fiue of your slanders and two contradictions wherewith you charge me my selfe being not author of any one of the contradictory proposions I prouing that these wordes in S. Mathewe this kind goeth not Matt. 17. 21 out c. belong not peculiarly to the Disciples say that if our Sauiour had rebuked them for not fasting praying they might haue excused pag. 119 120. 121. their want of time you trifle exceedinglye about this at last you affoord vs this worthy answere that considering our Sauiours staying in the mount which for all the circumstances you can alleadge can not be long they had time ynough to pray Antiquum obtinct Crito you must run your old byas impudently flap vs in the mouth with time for prayer wheÌ„ the question is of time for fasting and prayer Againe you wil haue these words This kind goeth not forth but by fasting and prayer to be no sever all reason rendred by our Sauiour why his Disciples failed in their purpose whereas we haue shewed it is a distinct thing from Miraculous faith and not necessarily ioyned with it and therefore not to concurre in making one reason with the â—ag 122. â—g 123. 124 same Moreouer say I â—f the Apostles in each weaknes of this faith must of necessity haue betaken themselues to fasting and prayer they should haue bene a whole day about a miracles the exercise of fasting requiring this space which would haue bene great hinderance to their speedy travell ouer the whole earth You answere This is Iudaisme Belike also it is Iudaisme for Christians to pray because the Iewes did so But vnderstand good Reader that the practise only of such cereremonies as the Lord appointed to be a difference betweene the Iewes and other people is Iudaisme not the exercise of such duties as be common to both That which you doubt what should become of the other part of the day if the diuell should be cast forth before noone beseemeth men which acknowledge no other seruice of God but for their owne turnes Is there no duty of thanksgiuing no request for strength to the party dispossessed no desire that the eye-witnesses might profit by it you would haue Christians serue God as the dog his maister for a bone The rest is vnworthy to be repeated so was this but that I would giue the Reader a taste But what say you that wil not haue a fast to continue for a day to A Walker alias â—â—g 5. Io. Deacon who in a booke of his called the Footpath to fasting saith that in the day of our fast we must be exercised in hearing applying and praying for the remâ—uing of God his iudgements euen from morning to night Do I you false tongues in pag. 48. and 49. of the Doctrine pag. 125. say that the Apostles should haue stirred vp their weake faith by fasting and prayer when I spend those whole pages to proue the contrary O palpable slaunder and extreame impudencie Likewise you say I affirme else where The
misconstructions wrestings of Scriptures in absured collections in impudent reiecting the authoritie of the ancient in shamelesse pretending the names of good authours against their owne meanings in childish stumbling in the first rudiments of Arts in most frequent lying and slaundering and which is greatest of all in dangerous and scandalous assertions mixed with some notorious blasphemies and then it may be you shall carie the bell of al that haue written in our times Great cause there is we should all make bonefires for the publishing of your bookes or rather of your published bookes but especially M. Bishop who got the priuiledge ad imprimendum solum I beleeue he beshrewes your fingers for it A REPLIE TO THE THIRD DIALOGVE YOur Vses are sutable to your doctrine For what other thing can proceede from a Cockatrices egge then a serpent Yet Lycanthropus admires and applaudes them and so perhaps may some 1. Ioh. 2. 27 doe that be not well in their wits But they which haue receiued the annointing that teacheth vs concerning all things will abhorre your prodigious dotage and the more when they consider your vses which manifest plainly that your errours be not about strawes and rushes such as without danger might be contemned and neglected but which draw after them most perillous consequences mightily shaking the verie foundation and chiefest pillers of our faith You pretend that this your doctrine of finall determination of possessions dispossessions of Spirits and Diuels affordeth first an holy meditation concerning the vndoubted faithfulnesse and truth of our eternall God in that he promising four thousand years fully before to send the seed of a woman which should bruise the serpents head hath in his owne determined time fulfilled the same by sending his sonne We beleeue and know it that not one iote of the Lordes promise hath failed but doth your doctrine yeeld any confirmation of it Nay verily but doth vtterly ouerthrow it and make the Lord of truth to haue falsified his word The Lord hath promised by sending his sonne fully to subdue and vanquish Satan your doctrine doth teach vs that Christ by his death hath onely made an end of possessions and dispossessions of diuels that is that he hath only deliuered Demoniaks such as were actually tormented in their bodies by the Diuels What Are all the Elect Demoniakes Haue you not taught vs. that Possessions were very rare before Christs time and that it was verie probable there were none at all in Israel till a little before his comming and none after the Apostles Are only then these men deliuered by Christs death You haue quit the Lord indeed wel of his promise He promised the breaking of Satans head you make that Christ hath scarce pulled one lock of haire froÌ„ his head He promised deliuerance for al his elect you restrain this deliuerance only to m enactually possest with diuells He promised vs a giftâ— as iâ— were of an hundreth thousand talents you make him to haue satisfied his promise in bestowiÌ„g vpon vs an huÌ„dreth pence Do men satisfy bondes in such manner Doth a Creditor to whome is owing a thousand pound hold himselfe contented in receauing two or thre shillinges â—ye vpon your comfort you are miserable comforters But this determination you say of Satans Actuall possession may confirme faith and hope for the vtter subuersion of the whole kingdom of darknes I answer you ly falsly if your doctrine be true For hope can expect no more then faith doth presently imbrace but by your teaching faith doth not imbrace a ful vanguishing of satans kingdome by Christs death but onely an end of Actual possessions which neither was accomplished as hath bene shewed and therfore hope cannot looke for any further subuersion of Satans kingdome then is alredie Now let the godly iudge what lyeth hiden in your doctrine whether they be things to be tolerated and cooly dealt in or no or rather of such nature that if you will not reclaime them all louers of the truth ought to spit in your faces in detestation of your errours So likewise when you speak of God his al sufficiencie of Christs triumph and of the Diuels captiuitie who so euer trusts to your doctrine in these poynts shall perceaue he leanes vpon a staffe of reede which when hee shall stand in neede of it will breaâ—e a sunder and run through his body as may sufficiently be seene by this little that I haue nowe remembred as also by that hath beene more fully declared in Suruey of your Sixt Dialogue your vses then are wretched and therefore I leaue them The proper vse that can be made of your doctrine is that Christians should now shew their wisedome in practising that rule our Sauiour Christ hath taught them namely this beware of salse prophets which come to you in sheepes clothing but inwardly they are rauening Math. 7. 15 wolues Thou hast seene in this book of theirs good Reader these men professing themselues The Lord his vnworthiest on earth In the subscription to three of theiâ— Epistles when they beginne their disputations to begin the same with prayer recreating themselues with singing of psalmes to wish the Reuerend brethren if they haue faulted either in matter or mannerto confute them and spare not withall desiring the blessing of God to light on their hearts for their labour that way to haue vsed many wordes of Dial. Discou pag. 7â— 262. Epist Dedi Ans goodly pretence of great obedience to the magistrate of great care of their brethrens good of great synceritie in calling euery thing to the triall of the Scripture and many such other faire shewes On the other side thou may st see by this Suruey and Reply what abundance of vile and grosse errors is packed vp in these their treatises What litle conscience they make of god his truth Of lying slandering how exceedingly they haue trifled in ech seuerall poynt and now by these vses how all tendes to this to descredit God his truth in fulfilling his promise to impeach his sufficiency for van quishing of fatan to restrain Christs triumph to a thing of nothing to limit Satans captiuitie with loosing of a skonse and such like which thinges beeing thus now it will shortly and easily more appeare whither these men be false prophets or no Foâ— if they shal recant themselues of their errours and as they haue giuen publike scandall to the Church in labouring to draw men after their fancies so againe in submission to the truth disclame all such opinio n dissonant from the sacred word throwing the first sâ—one at themselues to the end all other may beware of them then they shall be manif ested to haue shipped but of infirmiâ—ie and to be such indeed as they would seeme Otherwise if they will still maintaine defend them then thou â—eest good reader these mens sheepes clothing and how for thy sake I haue pulled it ouer their eares wheâ—by thou maâ—est behold them
to be inwardly rauening woules if they be to be iudged wolues not only which rent the meÌ„bers of our bodies in sunder but also much more they which by infecting men with pestiferous opinions deliuer theÌ„ to saran to be torne in peeces both bodies and soules In this case it will behooue the Christian Magistrate both Ciuill Ecclesiasticall to take order that such cruel deucuring beasts may be driuen from Christs fold that they would consider that they make not dissensions scandales contrary to the doctrine we haue learned which stand for the truth but they which oppugne the truth It is the rebell that makes ciuil war the faithful subiects wepons are not agaiÌ„st the peace but for the peace neither is it the dog barkiÌ„g in the night that disquiets the shepheardes but the Wolues approching the kepers stirring is to be commended the theues assaulting he is to be defended This vse then the Magistrate is to make of your doctrine generally all the Christians of this land are to take it as a watchword to auoyd you as Scorpions that they may know you to be men â—hil 3. 19. â— Tim. 3. 5. â—ud 16. which haue made your bellies your god to glory in your shame which haue a forme of godlynes haue denied the power of it whose mouthes speake proude things hauing the persons of men in admiration for aduantage sake These manner of men are fortold should come in these last dayes our Church doth already feele it by lamentable experience If thou shalt make this vse Christian reader â— Cor. 11. 19 of their booke it shall not bee altogether vnprofitable for thee For It must needes be that heresies should come that they which are approued amongst vs may be knowne The Lord therefore strengthen vs so many as be of this number to stand for his truth and giue vs wise dome to discerne those which would craftily vndermine it that all such wicked workers beeing defeated wee may constantly walke in the puritie of it till the day of our Lorde Iesus Christ to whom with the father and the holy Spirit be all honour and praise for euer Amen FINIS Here foloweth my answere to the Contradictions they charge mee with contradictiâ— 13. The Discoursers charging me with a shamfull companie of Contradictions no lesse then fiftie I first framed an answere to them with full purpose to publish it therein haue made it plaine there is not a contradiction But this my Treatise prouing much larger then I intended the answere to them being of litle or no vse saue only to cleare my selfe of this slaunder and to discouer their filthinesse which needeth not I thought good rather to suppresse then publish it yet so as I will giue thee good Reader a taste thereof and of their vpright dealing herein assuring thee of my credit that euen such be the rest of their contradictions Answere Darell say they in his Doctrine pag. 54. saith that prayer and fasting being vsed aright will certainly prosper either to the remouing or sanctifying of the iudgment But pag. 56. he saith their is no assurance to preuaile contrad 23 I answere There is no assurance to preuaile that is we can not be sure the partie shall be deliuered the meanes being vsed for so are my wordes Had then I sayd pag. 54. fasting will certainlie prosper to the remouing of the iudgement and no more I had contradicted that I say pag 59 but adding or sanctifying a child may see here is no contradiction Such a contradiction is this Certenly the Discoursers wil ether be ashamed of their contradictions or their sinne is the greater Assuredly they will not be ashamed of their contradictions And this The sun is either vnder a cloud or set It is not vnder a cloud In his Detection 163. Darrell saith fire hath poweâ—r to burne in the same pag. hath no power to burne Ans All that we reade Detection 163. is that Somers hand being in the fire was not burnt Would euer any man these two excepted hence collect a contradiction How many thousands in this land haue said the same and among them not a few that be learned yet I dare say neither learned nor vnlearned euer feared they spake contraries Shadrach Meshech Abednego being in the fire were not burned and yet they that cast them into the fire were burnt I trust you wil not say here is a contradiction But confesse both these to be true Fire naturally burneth but restrayned by God the ouer-ruler o nature it doth not burne Secondly you should first haue shewed where I say Fire hath power to burne before you told vs that I speake contraries â—ntrad 24. In his Dotrine pag. 2. he saith that it suteth altogether with Satans â—ature to be filthie or wicked in speech But Detection 175. he saith that it sutethe as well with his nature to vse good and holy speeches My wordes Detection 175. be Holy wordes haue beene vttered by satan Tel me is this a false proposition Or yet this vncleane and Ans blasphemous speeches sute excellently with the nature of the vncleane spirit If both these be true which none will deny with what truth doe you say that I speake contraries whereof the one must needs be false These men sure had forgot when they doted of this contradiction that the diuel is as well by nature subtil and in his subtiltie ready to transforme him selfe into Angel of light as vncleane and wicked Of this stampe they haue 18 contradictions more In his Doctrine 47. He saith the disciples by vertue of their so large â—ontrad 11 a commission could cast out a diuel of any kinde But pag. 50. the Lunatike child was possest with one of the worst kinde of spirits and that thence it came the disciples could not cast him out To make this contradiction they haue detracted part of my words Ans in either proposition In the former these if their faith failed not which words or words to the same effect in the aforesaid pag. 47. the two pages precedent I vse no lesse then twelue times In the latter proposition where I say thence partly it came they detract this word partly wherby I intimate the Disciples faith did at that time faile them when they could not cast the diuel out of the lunatike child so that their incredulitie was one let which oft els where I expresse And this you well knewe as appeareth by your next contradiction the twelft I meane What meant you then thus to separate and rent asunder those words which of purpose I had coupled together And by detracting that which in either of the propositions iâ— so materiall and in the one I inculcate so often to pretend a contradiction where you knew none was Who hath bewitched you to vse such curled deuises for the compassing of your contradictions A cursed pretence must this needes be seeing it can not be done in ignorance For you
my writings might make most for your purpose euen purposely maymed my writings which you deny and I affirme iudge thou indissirently betwene vs good reader And whether you will acknowledge and redresse the offred wrong whereof I complaine and which I trust to be a wrong I haue made manifest by this my Replie vnto all men to your owne consciences as you pretend you will nay seeme to abhorre not to do it if once the wrong shal be made to appeare saying God forbid that we should not doe it very willinglie in time both thou and I shall know And thus much for answer to their supposed contradictions For breuitie sake I omit my reply to the Absurdities wherewith you charge me and your slaunders conteined in them Here not vnfitly may I charge you with the contradictions Absurdities I find in your writinges and if it fall out so that your selues be found faultie in that wherof vniustly you accuse another then thereby learne henceforward to plucke rather the beame out of your own eyes then busie your selues so much about lesse then a mote in your brothers eye In their Answere page 55 and page 179 of their Discourses they say that the manifestation of Christ his deitie and declaration of his glorious spell were the maine ends of possâ—ssion and a little after that the possession of diuels were especially for these two ends therby in sinuating that there were some other ends or end Yet page 67 of the same booke they say that these were the two only ends of this vonderfull iudgement 2 In their Dial. dis page 58 they say angels doe euermore worke after an inuisible insensible and spirituall maner And the next leafe page 60 they say that angels in all their ambassages they do other manifest themselues by seeing and hearing or assist vs estsoonâ—s by some other sensible means And they bring Augustine flatly affirming that the angels do outwardly helpe vs by certaine visible apparitions or sights which they propose and offer before our eyes 3 In their Discourses pa. 42 they say the mind it selfe and it only is that wherein motion consisteth and the body is but the minds organon or instrument hauing naturally in it selfe no motion at all or no further motion at the most then for those only actions wherin the said mind whose organon it is imployeth the same But in pag. 74 of the same booke they affirme that the body it selfe hath and may accomplish or effect corporall operations and motions by it selfe alone without anie the direction moderation guidance or 〈◊〉 of the soule 4 In their Discourses pag. 116 they say the diuell did so bewitch and charme the Serpent as that through his craftie suggestion shee was very wel able to propound such a diuination or soothsâ—…ing as dâ—d presently circumuent or deceiue Fuah And in the same booke page 1 9 they say that a reasonable speech cannot possibly bee framed or vnderstood of anie but of a mind hauing vnderstanding and reason 5 In their Answer pa 50 they say These eight dâ—moniakes might be possessed though the diuell was not essentially inherent in anie one of their bodies But page 43 of the same booke they say The pâ—ssession of diuels whatsoeuer is ceased long since 6 In their Discourses 173 they say The Apostles might autheÌ„tically auouch for insallible truth whatsoeuer they preached But in their Answere page 126 128 129 130 they say that the apostles sometime failed in doctrine And a little after all these were their errâ—urs in doctrine and iudgement And againe It was expedient for the apostles to erre in some things that is some points of doctrine And this they vnderstand after the holy Ghost fell vpon them as is plaine by the aforesaid pages 7 In their Answer pag. 7 they say that wonders and miracles are flatly confounded but in their Dialogicall discourses 209 they say the diuel may worke wonders but can effect no miracles And pag 310 thus A thing effected by essentiall means howsoeuer it may be a wonder yet no miracle in any respect 8 In your Discourses pag. 352. for your parts you assure me that you are very farre from all suspition of a precompacted confederacie betweene Sommers and me Yet in page 42. of your Answere you say why should we wonder at all that two â—unning companâ—â—ns Meaning Sonnners and my selfe consedâ—rate together before should conclude such a course betweene themselues as the one by the helpe of the other should progmsâ—icate strange and meredâ—ble euents 9 In pag. 39. of their Discourses they tell vs There is not anie one sound Diuine that dâ—thâ—n t vnderstand Possession as they doe and none as I fondly imagine and yet in the â—pistle to the Reader prefixed before that booke that which they deliuer concerning possession and d sposs ssion of dâ—uels they call thâ—t priuate opinion and in page 195 of their Answere The Lord his lately revealed counsels Part of their absurd and vnsound Positions 1 Godby good Angels may effect fantasticall vaine and filthie effects Answers 15. 2 Good â—ngels may effect vaine and filthy effects ibid. 3 VVheresoeuer the Scriptures speake of Angels or diuels they speake only by metaphore ibid. 4 The Diuel hath no desire to be in any mans body Ans 22 5 The Iewes in Christs time did partly know the parties which were possessed from the often reuelation of the parties themselues answ 32 6 Godby his Spirit instructed the Cananitish woman mentioned Matth. 15 22 of her daughters malacie answ 33 7 The manifestation of Christs deitie and the confirmation of the Gospell the only ends of Possession answ 67 8 Christ hath put a finall end to the possession of diuels by his death and resurrection answ 66 9 The supernaturall actions or effects of the Diuel in Demoniaks cannot possibly be comprehended by humane senses Ans 69 10 The working of miracles was only in Christ and his Apostles dayes answ 90 11 God hath appointed plowing and sowing for a meanes of abundance or barrennes vpon the ground answ 172 12 Good angels do euormore worke after an invisible insensible and spirituall manner Dialogical discourses 58. This is to bee refuted by all those places where angels are said to haue appeared and spoken in visible formes vnto men 13 The body hath and may accomplish by her selfe alone corporall actions and motions without anie her soules direction moderation guidance or consent Dial. disc 74 14 The dead carcasse of a man or the body being separate from the soule may and doth also effect corporall actions and motions ibid. 15 The Diuel did so bewitch and so charme the Serpent as that through his craftie suggestion shee was very well able to propound such a diuination or soothsaying as did presently circumuent and deceiue Euah Dial. disc 16. Absurd that the Diuell should not onely thus make the Serpent it selfe to speake but also argue the matter like a reasonable creature 16 The apostles erred in some points of doctrine after the holy Ghost fell vpon them Yea it was expedient for them so to erre answ 126 128 129 130 17 It is verie erronious for able to imagin that the eyes may possibly be deceiued in discerning betweene spirits that is bodies assumed by spirits and true naturall bodies Dial. disc 157. You forget that Abraham and Lot were deceiued as appeareth by Gen. 18. and 19. FINIS I am to craue thy patience good Reader specially the authours for the late comming forth of this booke for I confesse it hath layen in my hands almost this halfe yeare