want unless they be of that Phanatick Party which is meer Faction and no Christian Charity at all Answ It seems by thy words thou once didst believe better of us then now thou dost it may be that was when in thy Mind thou wast more one with the Truth then now thou art but now thou art of a Prejudiced Spirit and Evil-minded against us or else thou mightest believe as well of us now as formerly for any Alteration that is in us from those Good Things we formerly were adicted unto according to that thy former Belief of us And whereas thou sayest That most of us are extreamly Covetous and Narrow-breasted without all Bowels of Pitty or Mercy towards those that want c. I require thee to prove what thou hast said of us herein or otherwise to acknowledge thy self to be a False Accuser and a Slanderer of us I doubt not but many who are not of us can witness thee to be a Lyar herein And for Phanatick Party which thou reckonest us of that thou mayest take home to thy self for thee and such as thou art may more truly be called Phanaticks then We. Again Whereas thou sayest That whereas many of them have been known to have been Persons of mean Fortunes at first are now Rich and Wealthy and none of them though very Poor before they turned Quakers now in a necessatous Condition being maintained as 't is very probable by their New Masters the Jesuits a very Rich and Opulent Society who make more Proselytes by the Length of their Purse-Strings then by the Strength of Argument or personated mimical Gestures Answ It may be it troubles thee that such of us who were formerly of mean Fortunes are now Rich and Wealthy and that none of us now are in a Necessatous Condition If God Almighty hath added to our Outward Substance so that many of us who before we owned that Holy and Blessed Truth possessed by those called Quakers which thee and many more do not though you profess the same Truth have more of Outward substance then before why shouldst thou be troubled at that so as to judge it is obtained by us by Extream Covetousness The Proverb is Ill-will will not speak well So thou being ill-minded towards us takest things the wrong way and wouldst insinuate thy evil suggestions into others that they might be like-minded with thee therein And if Care be taken by us that none that are truly of us are in a Necessatous Condition dost thou judge amiss of us therefore If thy Religion teacheth otherwise I desire not to be of it because it cannot be a good Religion so not according to the Apostle's Religion who said Do Good unto all but especially unto the Houshould of Faith And whereas thou say'st Being maintained as it is very probable being maintained by their new Masters the Jesuites c. I say if there be such a Society they may tell thee as well as we thou hadst not just Cause to say that that was every probable they being unknown to us and we to them And art not thee a Possessor of their Tythes and Peter's Pence Doth not that come in thy Purse that formerly came into the Jesuites And as for thy Words they converting us with their Purse we deny â—â—em and abhor their Practices for is not that thine and the Jesuites Practice who practise that which you call Converting for the Purse But have not you Priests Imprisoned and Plundered Us sufficiently to make us poor Again Whereas thou say'st As for their Humility and Lowliness 't is evident they shew no such Virtues in their Carriage towards their betters their Contempt of Gold Rings Silver Lace and Rich Attire is no Infallible Proof of their Humility Diogenes may be as Proud in his Tub as Alexander in his Pallace he may trample upon Plato's Pride with greater Pride as Haughty a Spirit may be hid under a Plain Country Russet as under the Richest Sables Answ What are those Carriages of ours towards any that do not shew Humility and Lowliness Surely those who are not one with us in Judgment yet being of a Moderate Unprejudiced Spirit perceiving that we are Conscientious in what we do though we cannot carry our selves towards them as they do one towards another in many things have a better Opinion of us then thou hast and God unto whom our Souls are subject knows that it is otherwise with us then thou judgest of us who will plead our Cause with thee who smitest at us without a Just Cause And I say Who cannot for Conscience sake wear Gold Rings and Silver Lace and Rich Attire as formerly they could have done do shew more of being guided by the Holy Infalliable Spirit of the Lord then such as practise those things and are better Followers of the Apostle who would have others to follow him as he followed Christ then such as do contrary herein which holy Apostle saith Let your Moderation be known unto all men for the Lord is at hand And the Truth if it be minded will lead to Moderation in these things And the Apostle Peter saith where he speaks of Women's Adorning themselves Whose Adorning let it not be the Outward Adorning of Plaiting the Hair and of Wearing of Gold or of putting on of Apparel but let it be the Hidden Man of the Heart in that which is not Corruptible even the Ornament of a Meek and Quiet Spirit which is in the Sight of God of great Price see â— Pet. 3. 3 4 c. Now Friend consider what Spirit thou art of who smitest at us for doing according to the Apostle's Exhortation herein And who walketh most according to the Truth We who are Conformable to God herein or Thou who seekest Occasion against us therefore What any People may do as to things which are good in themselves and ought to be done they doing them in Imitation only that they may be reckoned Humble and Lowly-minded and not in Obedience to God is one thing but what is done for the Lord's sake in true Obedience to him is another thing so there ought to be a Distinction made between such in things which the Blessed and Holy Truth leadeth them to do where it is kept to and such as do like things yet not so led thereunto And though things may be done by some by Imitation only which are good in themselves yet ought and may the same things be done by others by the Leadings of the Spirit of Truth and where it is so such things are rightly accounted the Fruits of the Spirit and such are reckoned by Christ as the Good Tree which brings forth Good Fruit so by what the Tree brings forth it may be known whether the Tree be good or evil so who do things by the Leadings of God's Spirit those things are the Fruits of that Good Spirit and are so owned by this Holy Spirit though not owned by it where the like things are done In Imitation only that
be called the least in the Kingdom of Heaven And whereas thou say'st in thy Dubitantius I know these and many more to be the Positions of the Quakers and that they are directly contrary to the sacred Scriptures Answ Whereas thou say'st Thou knowest these Pâ—sitions and many more of ours are directly contrary to the sacred Scriptures I say thou hast belyed us herein for the Scriptures make for us in these Positions which we own to be ours as I have shewed thee before and wherein thou hast said we hold that we do not hold thy Lyes are thrown back upon thy self and I doubt not but God will rebuke thy lying Tongue for thy slandering of us and turn the Mischief thou would'st bring upon us thereby upon thy own Pate And whereas thou say'st in thy Firmianus These Things are so clearly confuted by the Word of God by which I suppose thou meanest the Scriptures and Tradition of the Catholick Church c. Answ Thou hast said so but thou hast not brought one Scripture to confute us in those Positions we own to be ours and so hast accused us without a Proof which will not serve thy Turn for the carrying on of thy envious Work against us with People of Understanding but the rather thy Folly and Ignorance and Madness is the more made manifest to such as are honestly minded and are willing to try and to prove all Things and to hold fast that which is good And therefore cease from thy Work in this and in Things of this Nature for by thy Strength thou must not nor shalt not be able to prevail against us because the Truth is for us which is stronger and of more Might then any Thing beside it and takes our Parts against thee herein And whereas thou say'st Our Practices are extreamly opposite to all good Manners and the Civilities of all Nations which are not grosly barbarous as well as the Holy Scriptures and whereas you have observed their Carriages to be very demure austere and that they are of a sad Countenance 't is no more then our Blessed Saviour reproved in the Scribes and Pharisees long since c. Answ Wherein are our Practices so extreamly opposite to all good Manners and the Civilities of all Nations that are not grosly barbarous as well as the Holy Scriptures Friend let us know if thou art able to do it wherein our Practices are contrary to the blessed Truth and if our Practices are not contrary to the Truth but agreeable therewith as surely I may safely say they are then wherein can they be said to be opposite to all good Manners and the Civilities of all Nations Friend I can say and the Witness of God in my Conscience justifies me herein thou art one of those that calls Good Evil and Evil Good and so art not led by that good Spirit that the Holy Apostle and Servant of Christ was led by who said As Obedient Children not fashioning your selves according to the former Lusts in your Ignorance 1 Pet. 1. 14. So thou who arâ— ignorant of the Light of Christ and of the right Way of the Lord may'st call that good Manners and Civility which is according to the Fashions â—f this World which pass away but that which the good Spirit of God doth lead into is contrary to that which thou may'st account good Manners and Civility But thou and such as thee art are nearer in Nature to the grosly barbarous then we are as this thy Work manifesteth for I am of the Mind thou art not of so meek a Spirit as to bear with any Man or Woman that cannot put off their Hats and bow to thee for Conscience sake though what they do herein doth accord and agree with the Scriptures and so we are not contrary to the Scriptures but according to them for Mordecai who was a good Man could not bow to Haman as thou may'st see Ester 3. 1 2. For which Cause Haman was full of Wrath as see Ester 3. 3 5. So thou who art angry with any that cannot for Conscience sake put off their Hats and bow to thee I speak not of such as thus do in Contempt to any Man's Person but for Conscience-sake towards God art like Haman herein and not like Mordecai whom God was with c. Further say'st thou of us That we are very demure austere and of a sad Countenance whereas a sad sour Face a hanging down Look too much resemble Cain's Mark and is a very probable Sign of a disquieted discontented guilty troubled if not a malitious Mind Answ Thou judgest of us according to thy own Thoughts But Friend thoâ— should'st not judge of us according to the outward Appearance in thy prejudiced Mind but judge Righteously of us and if thou wouldst so judge then thou must judge nothing before the Time 'T is probable that thou may'st judge us to be of a malitious Mind because we cannot appear as one with People in their Folly in being jolly and merry with them out of the Fear of the Lord which is because we know such Things are contrary to Godliness and that whereby his good Spirit is grieved and by which he is provoaked to Anger daily the Consideration of those Things makes us sad many Times and we cannot avoid it well many Times but must by our Words and Carriages shew our Dislâ—ke thereof because we well know that People by such Things do provoak the Holy God against their own Souls who hath long born with their Evil Manners herein and striven with them by his good Spirit to reclaim them therefrom but his long Suffering will soon come to an End with such and his good Spirit will cease to strive with them therefore let such repent and amend their VVaves and their Doings before it be too late but thou shewest thy self to be one with them which thought it strange of the Saints formerly because they could not run with them into the same Excess of Riot which they run into as see 1 Pet. 4. 3 4. And though thou say'st of us that in this or in such Things before-mentioned of us it too much resembles Cain's Mark I say Cain's Mark may easier be seen in thee who hast wrote so malitiously against us as thou hast let the VVitness of God in thy Conscience testifie whether thou hast not wrote thus against us out of Malice and whether thou hast not done it out of the Enmity in thee unto that which is good Again sayes Firmianus This Practice of theirs is against the very Light of Nature as well as plain Scripture a meer levelling Device of their Seducers the Popish Priests and Jesuits to make a Confusion amongst us to destroy all Government to take away all Honour and Respect which is due to our Superiours for what Honour or Reverence has that Man in his Heart towards them who will express none in his Words or Gestures according to the â—â—udable Custom of the Country where he dwells Answ
VVhat is that Practice of ours that is against the very Light of Nature as well as plain Scripture which thou callest a meer levelling Device of our Seducers the Popish Priests and Jesuits c. Is it in not respecting Perâ—ons in that Way which the VVorld doth with Cap and Knee Is this the Respect thou lookest for from us Hast thou learned Christ no better then so Did not Christ reprove such as lov'd Greetings in the Markets and to be called of Men Rabby Rabby And did not Christ say to the Jews I receive not Honour from Men and how can ye believe which receive Honour one of another and seek not the Honour which cometh from God only See Mat. 23. 1 2 3 4 5 6 c. and John 5. 41. 44. Is this contrary to the very Light of Nature then may'st thou say Christ's Doings were contrary to the very Light of Nature thou may'st with Shame enough give over thus abusing the Scriptures and us who dost not know that which thou callest the very Light of Nature nor the Scriptures to guide thee nor to say as thou dost herein but the contrary So it is thee that art contrary to the very Light of Nature and the Scriptures and not we Therefore thou false Accuser Repent of thy false Accusations against us herein And as for the Popish Priests and Jesuites whom thou falsly say'st have seduced us herein I say thou belyest them in these Things who are one with thee in those Things thou practisest more then one with us in what we practise and so 't is more probable that thee and such as thou art are seduced by them because your Practices do better acccord and agree with the Practice of the Popish Priests and Jesuites then ours do and so both denyed by us And what is the Honour thou would'st be honoured withall viz. with putting off the Hat and bowing the Knee to thee Can Honour and Reverence be shewn no other VVay but by this VVay Certainly one Man may have a good Esteem of another in his Heart and yet not shew it by such Gestures as these else why doth the Apostle say Honour all Men in the Lord So People may have a good Esteem of each other in their Hearts without shewing it by such Gestures as thou would'st have them to shew it by 'T is possible one Man may bow to another and say to him Your humble Servant Sir as if he were ready and willing to do him Good and yet for all that would if he had an Oportunity for it do him an Injury what are these the laudable Customs thou would'st have us do and practise Friend what by the Light of the Lord we are led unto in these Things we can do but that which is contrary to his Holy Light we may not do lest we make our selves Transgressors against him thereby Again Thou sayest in thy Dubitantius Truly I have often admired at the Vncivil Behaviour of the Quakers in saying THOV and THEE to their Betters in not Bowing the Knee or putting off the Hat to their Superiours Answ Is not Thou and Thee most proper to speak to One Person seeing You signifies more then One And if I say You when I speak but to One I speak Contrary to the Truth seeing You signifies more then One or Many is it not according to the Scriptures to say Thou to One when one speaks but to One Was it not the Language of Almighty God to Adam in Paradice And did not Adam say Thou to God again see Gen. 3. 9. 12. And frequently in the Scriptures Thee and Thou we find was used to One and what is it Uncivil in us to speak as we find it is recorded in the Scriptures of Truth herein Oh! blush for Shame for so saying And now tell us who is contrary to the Sccriptures Thee or Us speak the Truth herein And wherein may one Man be said to be Better then another except it be in his being more Honest and Just then another and so in being more in the Truth then another is 'T is not because one man is better by Blood then another seeing God made of one Blood all Nations One man may be better in his Estate then another but how that man can be a better man then another I know not except in his Estate seeing God made all Nations of one Blood But thou who art for Respecting of Persons committest Sin who art contrary to Christ and contrary to his Apostle and the Scriptures and so art judged by the Scriprures and by the Spirit of Truth from which they were given forth for our Civil Behaviour to any does not lie in putting off our Hats Again Thou sayest in thy Firmianus But pray you what think you of their pitching a certain Price upon their Commodities of which they will not bate one Farthing c Answ Wouldst thou make it a Crime in us to keep to what we say If we say in case we are selling a Commodity to any Person We will not sell it under such a Rate or Price is not thus to do to keep Christ Jesus our Lord's Command herein who sayes Let your Yea be Yea and your Nay Nay for whatsoever is more then these cometh of Evil And can we do that which is Honest and Right in the Sight of God herein and do otherwise For shame give over Writing and Speaking against those things which in themselves are good and ought by every true Christian to be observed Again Thomas Good saith in his Dubitantius concerning us I believe That these men most of them are as great Cheats as ny in the World Answ But what is thy Reason for thy thus saying If thou believest that the most of us are as great Cheats as any in the World thou shouldst shew why thou so believest Thomas Good this will not serve for thy Purpose herein What! Must People believe thus of us because thou dost People that be wise will not believe what thou sayest of us herein except thou canst shew a better Reason for thy so believing of us then thou hast Indeed thou givest no Reason at all but 't is only thy so saying without giving or shewing any Reason for it But it may be thou thinkest If thou sayest thou believest it it is sufficient for others to believe so too But I tell thee Nay that will not serve for thy Purpose herein for they that be Wise will require some further Testimony for thy so saying then thy bare Words in saying Thou believest so of us And so thou hast manifested thy own Folly and Envy in this Matter Again Thou sayst in thy Dubitantius I did once believe them to be great Contemners of the World Meek Humble Lowly c. but 't is evident they are quite contrary to what they seem to be for sayest thou I know that most of them are Extreamly Covetous and Narrow-breasted without all Bowels of Pitty or Mercy towards those that