Selected quad for the lemma: spirit_n

Word A Word B Word C Word D Occurrence Frequency Band MI MI Band Prominent
spirit_n heaven_n zeal_n zealous_a 79 3 9.4016 4 false
View all documents for the selected quad

Text snippets containing the quad

ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A64833 Venning's remains, or, Christ's school consisting of four classes of Christians, I. babes, II. little children, III. young men, IV. fathers : with their several characteristical differences and attainments, also the doctrines proper to be taught to each of them : being the substance of many sermons / preached by Ralph Venning and fitted by him for the press before his death. Venning, Ralph, 1621?-1674. 1675 (1675) Wing V225; ESTC R27039 205,701 393

There are 5 snippets containing the selected quad. | View lemmatised text

of great use Qui dubitat qui saepe rogat c. but carnal men as the Pharisees and Sadducees were askt Christ many a captious and quarrelsome question yea the Devil abused our common Mother by a Quaerie and in this the Babes are as carnal that they take up a great deal of time and discourse about impertinent and little things The Corinthians troubled Paul about such things as common discretion would have determined and therefore he tells them so often in relation to it thus say I not the Lord 1 Cor. 7.6 and 12. and 25 26. and 40. as much as to say these things are not so much matter of Religion and Conscience as of prudence and discretion As about Marrying so about eating they seemed to be very solicitous and much concerned 1 Cor. 8. which yet was an indifferent thing Vers 8. only such liberty must not be abused to the offence of others Vers 9. else 't is not a matter of Conscience whether I may eat or not this or that for any thing that is sold in the Shambles and good for food is lawful to be eaten without a dispute 1 Cor. 9. 27 33. so the Disciples till Christs Ascention were full of pitiful questions who shall be greatest Matth. 18.1 what shall this man do Joh. 21.21 Wilt thou at this time restore the Kingdom to Israel Acts 1.6 Alas what a poor low way of questioning is this indeed to ask What shall I do to be saved what is the Will of God concerning me in my place and relation how shall I attain to a more perfect state such things are considerable and worth the asking but to be taken up about little and low things is to be as Babes and as carnal more nice than wise 7. These Babes live much more by Tradition and the example of men than by rule or reason They are as to their Faith a kind of implicite believers and believe as the Church or such and such a great wise and learned Doctor believes and their practice is a kind of imitation of some men in such and such things This made Paul speak to his Corinthians to follow him but as he followed Christ if you will follow and have an example of me look on me only as in and walking in the steps of Christ Jesus 1 Cor. 11.1 3. I fear that to this day many persons take into such a track because such and such men whom they affect do so more than for any conviction that is upon them or any account they can give that it is the way of God But remember Non quâitur sed quâ cundum est we should not walk by what is done but by what ought to be done Morth 19.1 9. 8. They are as carnal in having more zeal than knowledge to manage it of the Jews the Apostle speaks thus Rom. 10.2 3. and in like manner doth he speak of the Galatian-Babes and upon the like occasion Gal. 4.16 21. and Chap. 3.1 5. They no sooner get a notion by the end but they are all of a flame they like tinder take fire presently and suffer zeal though without discretion to eat them up Paul himself while carnal was a most zealous man but 't was in the daies of his ignorance Zeal like fire is a good Servent indeed but 't is a bad Master it need be well watch'd When the Disciples in their zeal would have called for fire from Heaven 't was from their unacquaintedness with their own spirit And 't was in such a fit that Peter drew his Sword But this is not the way of Christ whose Kingdom is not of this world and therefore will not that his servants fight Matth. 26.51 with Joh. 18.10 and 36. 't is like carnal men to think we do God good service by killing them that do not deserve it as being not of our way Joh. 16.2 and usually this zeal of such men shews it self most in the presence of their leaders and dies in their absence Gal. 4.18 2 Chron. 24.2 I will not undertake to tell who are and how many such Babes there are in our daies but I am afraid there are too many 9. Babes are as carnal in this that they can hardly bear a reproof or an Exhortation carnal men and Babes that are as carnal look on reproofs as reproaches and cannot bear them They are not without heart risings and grudgeings against them that reprove them the Corinthians were nettled at Paul's dealing roundly with and rebuking them sharply that they might be found in the Faith they could hardly bear with him but almost called him fool for his kindness and love 2 Cor. 11.1 and 12.11 15. the Author of the Epistile to the Hebrew-Babes is fain to entreat them to suffer a word of Exhortation Heb. 13.22 I beseech you Brethren suffer the word of exhertation for I have written a Letter to you in few words Though one speak but a little but a few words they think them too many if they like not what is said though perhaps it concerns none so much as themselves Eli's carnal Sons could not bear reproof from their Father nor can Babes as carnal bear any though from a Father And beside this they are loth to suffer for Religion but will rather comply and conform with to the rudiments of this world as the Hebrews with Jewish and the Corinthians with Gentile Rites rather than suffer persecution 'T is true the Hebrews after they were illuminated indured a great fight of affliction at first Heb. 10.32 but they had weak hands and feeble knees and began to faint and be weary which occasioned that quickening exhortation Chap. 12. which he intreats them to suffer Chap. 13.22 The Disciples themselves were scattered and fled at the smiting of the Shepherd so tedious a thing is suffering to them that are but Babes and as carnal If thou saint in the day of affliction thy strength is small Prov. 24.10 10. To name no more some of them are apt to measure Gods heart by his hand as carnal men do love and hatred by the things before them which is a false rule If Gods hand be open to and fill them with his blessings then all is well but if his hand be shut up from or laid upon them then like Sion of old God hath forsaken them this is their infirmity for the best of this world is not good enough to be a Love token nor the worst of it bad enough to be a token of hatred If God slay their Son or take away what they love they draw sad conclusions as if God had no respect for them so it seems the Corinthians were apt to do when God afflicted them and therefore the Apostle tells them 1 Cor. 11.32 when we are Judged though for this cause Vers 30. yet we are chastened of the Lord that we may not be condemned with the world And so the Hebrew-Babes were heartned by the like consideration that they might not measure Gods heart
bringing in and building up but still remember that the excellency of the power is of God and not of the Earthen Vessel It shall be granted that thou maist love if thou wilt not Idolize thy Father Paul not call him Father as the Jews did the Pharisees It may be Boanerges may suit one and Barnabas another better but remember it must not be judged by humour Hear thine Apollo but receive the Word not as his but as Gods or else 't will not work effectually 1 Thes 2.13 do not call him thy magnus Apollo thine Oracle Believe the truth who ever Preach it Paul or Apollo but do not pin thy Faith on any mans sleeve be it white or black be of what Church thou wilt so thou be of the Church of Christ and do not glory in this I am of Paul and I of Apollo for there is no Church in Scripture called this mans or that mans 't is the Church of God and the Churches of Christ I could say other things but I intend to spare you all I can though there are many more carnalities yet to be mentioned pudetque referre c. 2. They were as carnal in that they were proud of being in Church communion though they had and kept communion with very unclean persons and their lump was leavened That they did so is clear from 1 Cor. 5. and yet were pussed up Vers 2. and gloried Vers 6. they boasted of being in fellowship though it were with gross and unheard of sinners Vers 1. which puts the Apoille upon such Exhortations as we find in Vers 11. and 2 Cor. 6.14 When persons can content themselves with and be proud of such common prophane and therefore fulsome and offensive communion at large 't is an argument of their being as carnal when content with Ordinances disorderly administred they are as carnal 1 Cor. 11.17 34. when humane partitions steal the name of a Church and mixt participations the name of communion and Christians can please themselves with and glory in it they are as carnal Be not therefore unequally yoked and if any that is called Brother be a Fornicator c. with such an one don 't you eat 3. That these Corinthian-Babes were as carnal appears by their going to Law with one another before the unbelievers and unjust 1 Cor. 6.1 8. this they were bold and daring in durst any of you Vers 1. this they did for toyes and trifles the smallest matters Vers 2. they had cause to be ashamed of it Vers 5. as if there had not been one wise or honest man among them 't was utterly and undeniably a fault Vers 7. And yet being but Babes and as carnal this they durst to do Such Babes are all they who do after this fashion so is every one such another piece of carnality who refuseth the hearing of the Saints and goes to Law with his Brother before unbelievers and the unjust The Apostle speaks angerly in this case What dare you know ye not c. Can you profess and pray and yet not forgive nor suffer but wrong and defraud and that your Brethren Oh what a strange thing is this it cannot be excused nor any plea can be made for it 't is utterly a fault 't is altogether and wholly a fault as the gr 't is base all over 4. Babes appear to be as carnal in this that they pass from one extream to another in their actings and are not acquainted with the golden mean and moderation they either under or over do A while these Corinthians were so careless that they did not mind to cast out or censure the incestuous person 1 Cor. 5. and anon they are so violent that they will not forgive him but suffer him to be swallowed up with overmuch sorrow 2 Cor. 2. Thus they go from the extream of desect to that of excess and are not acquainted with the divine mediocrity to walk in the midst of the paths of Judgement So the Galatian Babes at the first they admire Paul and bless him but after a while they carry it to him as if he had been their enemy Gal. 4.14 16. and this was soon done Chap. 1.6 At the beginning who but Paul they were ready to Deify him after a while he was no body they were ready to defie him thus do they not veeze about by degrees but chop about from one extream to another being tossed with every wind of doctrine Ephes 4.14 they sail with that wind that blows and are carried with the last man they heard poor weather-cocks that they are When our Saviour began to wash the Disciples feet John 13. saies Peter Vers 6. Lord d●st thou wash my feet he seems to put it off with scorn what have I no more manners than to let thee wash my feet thou shalt never wash my feet Vers 8. and yet when Christ had told him but a word or two saies he Vers 9. Lord not only my feet but my hands and my head The one extream was thou shalt not never wash my feet and the other extream is wash my head he passeth from one extream to another in a moment as ' t were In matter of practice the Corinthians were in the extream one while not cast out another not take in the incestuous person in point to affection the Galatians would now pull out their eyes for Paul and then pull out his eyes and as for protestation Peter is one time for not at all and by and by for all over this is the way of these Babes and this their way is their folly for they are as carnal 5. They are as carnal in this that they take great exceptions at a little matter they will take pet at nothing almost If you be not of their way and follow them they will take it ill even to the forbidding of doing Christs work as the Disciples did Mark 9.38 but they were as carnal in this and therefore Christ forbids them to do any such thing and on weighty reasons too Vers 39 40. Babes in Christ are many of them of a touchy peevish and sowr humour So when the Disciples met with colder entertainment than they lookt for they were for fire from Heaven which was an evident sign that they knew not what spirit they were of Luke 9.51 55. When the Apostle Paul had made a promise to the Corinthians of coming to them 1 Cor. 16.5 7. and was disappointed they presently accuse him of lightness and complement which puts him upon Apologising for himself 2 Cor. 1.15 24. and surely they are as babish as these were that are so rash and censorious that take pet and make exception without cause they are as carnal 6. Babes are as carnal in making many questions either trivial or needless ones they concern themselves much about things of little concernment to their edification Under the notion of a case or scruple of Conscience they will ask many an impertinent question The way of asking questions may be
and consequently that honoureth my Son I will honour saith the Lord. What honour will God confer upon such viz. they shall be called not only be but be called manifested and declared to be the Children of God and behold what manner of love this is 1 Joh. 3.1 When the Spouse was sick of love she was much made of and to Mary who loved much there was much forgiven and special manifestations of love made unto her Our Saviour tells his Disciples that the Father loved them for this very reason because they loved him and that shortly they should have clear and plain manifestations of the Father Joh. 16.25 27. according to what he promiseth to all that love him Joh. 14.21 23. 4. God hath promised to be known as a Father to them that do separate from and are not unequally yoked with unbelievers and that do not touch the unclean thing 2 Cor. 6.14 17 18. which is more as to manifestation love and joy than to be known to us as our God Vers 16. with Heb. 1.5 Wherefore come cut from among them and be ye separate saith the Lord touch not the unclean thing and I will receive you viz. into my favour embraces and bosom and I will be a Father to you and you shall be my Sons and Daughters and you shall be treated accordingly For this reason was Christ himself anointed with the oyl of gladness above his fellows Heb. 1.9 and as any of his are conformable to him in the separation which love of righteousness and hatred of iniquity makes the more are they like to be anointed with the oyl of gladness above their fellows 5. God usually gives out manifestations and assurances of love to such of his as are about to do and suffer great things for him and this he gives them as a preparation thereunto Christ Jesus had the voice from Heaven a little before he entred upon his ministry The Apostles had the Spirit sent to prepare them for doing greater things than they had done in Christs time And the reason that Paul had so early an assurance of his election and being dearly beloved of God was because he was presently to go about great undertakings and to undergo great sufferings Acts 9.15 16. so that he in a very little time in a few daies past from the Babe-state to that of a little Child and from thence into that of a Young-man Saint which few so suddenly do but on such an occasion as this Thus have I discovered some of them I cannot say all for there is no confining nor limiting of God to whom he is pleased to make himself known as a Father to call them out of the Form of Babes and to place them in the second higher Form that of Children and to give them assurance of his love that they may say unto him Thou art our Father Though I cannot say for whom of us God will do this yet according to these presidents 't is more than probable that if we be found among this number we shall in due and it may be in a little time know the Father But I must proceed to shew something more largely how he is thus made known by the witness of his Spirit CHAP. II. Continued and inlarged Shewing how they come to know the Father by the witness of the Spirit in five Sections SECT I. AT the beginning of this Chapter I began to shew how they came to know the Father or which is equivalent and all one that they are the Children of God and dearly beloved of him and that was by not barely the working of the Spirit in them but after and over and above that by the Spirit witnessing to them clearing up that work to be of God which is wrought in their own hearts and spirits Rom. 8.18 Here are two witnesses and both Spirits that out of the mouth of two knowing witnesses this thing may be establisht our spirit affirms and the Spirit of God confirms Our spirit knows what acts and workings are wrought in us and by us our spirit affirms that such Repentance Faith Love c. there is in us but whether this be wrought according to God our spirit by it self cannot tell without and until the Spirit of God bear witness to it that it is according to the Will of God Rom. 8.26 27. with 1 Cor. 2.10 11 12. of which I have given some account above in this and more in the former Treatise of Babes From whence I infer these two things 1. That this witness of the Spirit is not a thing common to all Saints for Babes have it not though they have the things which do assure yet they have not assurance because they have not the Spirit witnessing with their spirit 't is not a thing that runs parallel with saintship as having the work of the Spirit doth If we have not the Spirit of Christ we are none of his that 's true Rom. 8.9 but 't is as true that we may be his though we have not the witness of his Spirit in us for we are his before we have the witness of it and the witness doth not make us so but the Spirit finding us to be his doth witness and declare that we are his The witness doth not make us but manifest us to be and to us that we are the Children of God as the Text and thing it self is clear plain and full Rom. 8.16 That which is witnessed to must be before 't is witnessed unto I shall add but one Text more to confirm this Ephes 1.13 14. where this is evident and apparent that as they heard before they believed so they believed before they were sealed with the holy Spirit of Promise which is the earnest of our inheritance and which we had a little before we had this seal and earnest So that we were the Children of God by Faith Gal. 3.26 before we have the witness of being Children And though it be said 1 Joh. 5.10 that he who believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself as if every Believer had it yet I have two or three things to say hereunto 1. That St. John perhaps writ not to Babes but to all the higher Forms of Children Young-men and Fathers and all these indeed have the witness of the Spirit in themselves But 2. If we take in all Babes among the rest it may also be said of them that they have the thing which doth witness and the witness of their own spirits but it will not thence follow that they have the witness of the Spirit or assurance which is the thing that I am speaking to 'T is as true that the three witnesses in earth in us below agree in one as 't is that the three witnesses in Heaven are one Ver. 7 8. Yet all three do not give out their witness all at once the water and blood may and do witness before the Spirit doth Yet again 3. The witness in himself may be understood
treat of viz. to shew what is meant by the evil one what the dispute between the wicked one and the Young men is about that the Young men do overcome and how they do overcome the wicked one c. Of these things I shall speak in the Model and order first proposed which brings me to the fourth Chapter CHAP. IV. Shewing what or who is meant by the wicked one THE evil or the evil one this expression especially if read in the Neuter Gender 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is meant of more evils than one yea of all evil and so it may be understood in that Prayer which our Lord taught Matth. 6.13 and that Prayer which our Lord made and Prayed Joh. 17.15 and so in Rom. 12.9 1 Joh. 5.19 but here it seems to be of the Masculine Gender 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and refers to one viz. him who is eminently and principally the evil one or the wicked one whether spoken of a man or of the Devil It is used to denote and set out a notorious wicked man that hath no fellow in wickedness a Devil incarnate an Antichrist as 't is in 2 Thes 2.3 9. for though the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 be not there yet 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 an equivalent word is there Hesychius makes these words to be synonymous 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 all noting a most flagitious profligate and terribly wicked person as this word doth 1 Cor. 5.13 but it doth most usually refer to the Devil himself who is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the wicked one so eminently as none is beside him and this may be observed to be undoubtedly true by comparing these following Texts Matth. 13.19 with Luke 8.12 Ephes 6.16 1 Joh. 3.12 now this is the evil or wicked one not excluding others that these Young men have overcome by being strong and the Word of God abiding in them The Devil being the Captain-General the ring-leader the Master of misrule and mischief the rest fall with him In telling us that they have overcome the wicked one 't is implyed that there was first a fight an hot and sharp encounter between the Devil and the Young men the Devil did set upon them and tempt them shrewdly and they had not a little to do till they won the field and day of him And surely 't were not temptations in common but some singular ones that these Young men were under the Babes meet with common ones but these with special ones 1 Cor. 10.13 As Christ Jesus would not teach the Babes Doctrine which they could not bear so he would not lead them into temptations which they could not overcome but these Young men who are his Champions and Worthies they encounter Giants as Davids did they war not against flesh and blood weak enemies but against principalities and powers c. Ephes 6. It will therefore be expedient if not necessary to enquire after what the special temptations are which Young men encounter and overcome or what the thing is that the dispute is about between the Devil and the Young men Christians CHAP. V. What the dispute is about or what the temptations are which Young men do undergo and conquer IT must be remembred that these Young men are taken out from among the little Children who have received the witness of the Spirit that they are the Children of God and about this thing is the dispute between the Devil and them viz. whether they be the Children of God or not and so some understand that place which speaks in Military language as if it properly referred to the state and condition of these Young men Ephes 6.12 reading that which we render in high or heavenly places about heavenly things viz. our Title to Sonship and so to Heaven this is the thing which the Spirit witnessed to their spirits this the Devil calls in question and offers arguments against it but all these arguments do the Young men overcome by the Word of God abiding in them which strengthens their Faith to give glory to God and his Spirit as the faithful and true witness notwithstanding all the cunning insinuations of wiles and the Devil To clear this up a little more I humbly offer this to consideration That the Saints members of Christs body are all of them more or less conformable to his Image and to the several states and conditions wherein he was Now such was the condescension of our great and good Lord Jesus that he not only took flesh and blood the humane nature in common but was found in our fashion and tempted like us in all things yet still without sin he went through all our states he was once as a Babe viz. made under the Law and was in the likeness of sinful flesh and so judged as carnal withal he was under Tutors and Governours and was obedient to them Luke 2.46 51. where 't is added that he increased in wisdom as in age which argues without any disparagement that his attainments as in the flesh were gradual After a while he being Baptized and Praying hath the witness from heaven that he was the Son of God Luke 3.21 22. and then was Jesus led up of the spirit into the Wilderness to be tempted of the Devil Matth. 4.1 and so past from the Child 's to the Young mans state So then in conformity hereunto I conceive and declare that the temptations which the Young men undergo are the same and about the same thing which Jesus Christ underwent when after the witness of the Spirit he was tempted by the Devil The Spirit first witnesseth then the Devil calls this into question and puts Christ upon the proof to which Christ answers and conquers by the Word of God abiding in him and just so it was with these Young men the phrases and things do so accord that it seems to me to be unquestionable To come up then to what I intend by steps and degrees The Saints in conformity to Christ Jesus are but Babes at first under the Law in the likeness of sinners as carnal and are in subjection to Tutors and Governours after this God is pleased to make himself known to some of them as a Father by the witness of his Spirit and so they arrive to the state of Children and then God singles out some of these to be tempted of the Devil about their Sonship and they become 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Young men and brave Souldiers who are taught to draw and wield the sword of the Spirit the Word of God against the Devil as Christ also did God was pleased to take this care of and about Israel under the Law That when a man had taken a new Wise he should not go out to War neither should he be charged with any business but he should be free at home one year and cheer himself with his Wife Deut. 24.5 So by way of allusion I may say that when the Saints marry a new Wife the Fathers Love they
takes another course and falls to offering of terms and making of Bargains saith he Matth. 4.9 All these things the Kingdoms of the world and the glory of them will I give thee if thou wilt fall down and worship me Here are fine and brave things grandeur and gallantry pleasure prettiness and pomp here are the lusts of the eye the flesh and the pride of life the things which the Young men in the world are inamour'd of even to fondness and dotage these are the things which the Alexanders and Julius Caesars of this world the Nimrods and hunters after glory pursue with might and main ambition do but fall down and bow the knee to worship me and all shall be thine And this seems to be the Devils Saera Anchora last hope if he cannot prevail this way he despairs he hath choaked many a forward and far-gone Professor as the thorny-ground hearers with this bit and bait as he did our first Parents even in innocency and therefore S● John immediately after his having spoken to the Young men subjoyns this Love nor the world nor the things thereof 1 Joh. 2.14 15. But let us hear the Answer from the Word of God written not only in the Bible but in their hearts Then Jesus and the Young man Saint saith unto him Get thee hence Satan for it is written Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God and him only shalt thou serve q. d. No man can serve two masters God and Mammon God and the Devil God is too good a Master to be left and the Devil too bad an one to be served Get hence vile varlet wretched caitiff thou wicked one dost think I will leave Heaven for Hell God for the Devil the Kingdom and glory of God for the Kingdoms and glory of this world which is all but vanity and vexation of Spirit Is God and Heaven and my soul no more worth than this avaunt Devil get hence for shame dost think I will fell my Soul for a paultry vanity and become a Lover of that which will make me the enemy of my God and make a God of mine enemy no no avoid Satan and get hence Now after this the Devil leaves him and runs away he cannot stand before the Word of God if he be resisted by being stedfast in the Faith he will flee and if he flee he is for the present conquered and he is put to flight and conquered by the It is written the Word of God abiding in power and efficacy in the Young men as he was by our Saviour Thus I have briefely shewn the parallel between the temptations which attended Christ and which attend the Young men after the witness of the Spirit concerning their Sonship which are defeated and put to flight by the Word of God The signs of this victory shall be shewn openly as in triumph in due time but at present I shall speak to one and only to one temptation more which assaults some of the little Children and the Young men and then proceed to prove the victory by the spoiles which shall be brought forth as signs thereof SECT 4. One Temptation more which they undergo and conquer too THere is one Argument which the Devil could not make use of against Christ who was without sin but doth often make use of against the little Children and Young men too if possible to make them call their Sonship into question 't is that they are not without sin but do in many things offend either by doing evil or omitting good or by falling short of their duty and giving God the glory due to his name Thou saith the Devil canst not be a Child of God nor know him as a Father for such do not commit sin nor can they do but read 1 Joh. 3 4-10 and 5.18 and tell me what thou canst say to these things if thou say thou sinnest not I will prove it if thou say thou hast no sin thou dost lie and sinnest in saying so and if thou sin how canst thou say that thou art born of God when the Scripture saith that he who is born of God doth not commit sin This is a two-edged Sword an Argument that cuts on both sides it seems to put these poor souls to a Dilemma but yet by the Word of God abiding in them they defeat this also To this they Answer 1. By following the example of Christ Jesus in opposing truly quoted and rightly understood Scripture to the Scripture which is falsely quoted and misapply'd which latter is as bad as the former the Devil wrests and so wrongs the Scripture and knows it though it be to his own confutation and confusion they say as our Saviour did again It is written and as the Devil knows that the seeming opposite Scriptures may be reconciled so he cannot endure that they should be reconciled he will rather be silent and answer nothing as when Christ opposed his half quotation by a whole one Thus then may the Young man Answer Satan thou knowest that Abraham Moses David c. were born of God and had the witness of his Spirit that they were his Children and yet were not without sin but sinned after their new birth or conversion and thou knowest that if we say the we spoken of in the foregoing Verses who had fellowship with God if we say that we have not sinned since conversion we make him a lyar and his Word is not in us 1 Joh. 1.10 This the Devil either cannot or will not reconcile though he knows 't is reconcileable with the fore-alledged Texts and therefore they are misapplyed as to the case in hand and the persons concern'd in this dispute But 2. Say the Young men the Texts which thou hast quoted do not seem to speak of every or any sin in any degree but of a special Sin viz. hating or not loving of the Brethren which they that are born of God cannot be guilty of 1 Joh. 4.20 but thou knowest Satan and that to thy vexation that I love the Brethren and am past from Death to Life To this purpose see what 's said in the Treatise of Babes in the Chapter of their love to the Brethren Or else it may refer to the sin unto death 1 Joh. 5.16 17 18. Yet 3. If the Text may not be restrain'd to that I can say further that I do not live in sin nor make a trade of sin as thou dost I am no sin-maker as thou art I sin not as they that are of thee who workest in the Children of disobedience that they may fulfil the lusts and wills of the flesh Ephes 2.1 3. and of such thou canst not deny but the quoted Texts do speak 4. I can say yet more in a true sense as the Apostle doth Rom. 7.15 20. that 't is not I who am born of God that sin but sin that dwelleth in me though I with my fl●sh may alas that I do serve the Law of sin yet thanks be to God