Selected quad for the lemma: spirit_n
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A48935
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The good order of truth justified wherein our womens meetings and order of marriage (by some more especially opposed) are proved agreeable to Scripture and sound reason / by an old and true friend to liberty of conscience, but not to disorder, William Loddington.
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Loddington, William, 1626?-1711.
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1685
(1685)
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Wing L2803; ESTC R21478
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11,744
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15
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dissanulled I know nothing can be urged in opposition to the Order of our Womens Meetings or in behalf of the mixed Meetings before mentioned The Second thing in the Order of Truth by some opposed is Our way of Marriage which though established by the Wisdom of God in our Meetings being comely and commendable even in the Eyes of sober discreet People of the World yet some professing Truth A Shame to see it are so pettish and conceited that nothing will please them unless a liberty be granted to Marry what way yea and what Persons too they please And except we will consent to and approve of such a Liberty they cry out Imposition Formality c. And they are very ready to urge the Apostles granting liberty of eating Herbs and Flesh Rom. 14. as a good Argument for them Is Marriage of no greater concern than such things According to my measure in Truth I affirm they may more plausibly contend for a liberty to put off their Hats in Salutations as the World doth for this would not so much reflect upon Truth as diversity of Marriages The World doth not regard our Gestures or Salutations as matters of Religion but Marriage is generally owned to be Gods Ordinance Wherefore if our Meetings which we believe have greater light in Religious matters than other gatherings should not agree in the manner of celebrating this Ordinance of God would they not render themselves very weak yea below the Wisdom of other Churches so called Will the Jew tolerate his Circumcision the Baptist Water-Baptism or the Bishops their Matrimony to be administred after divers ways and different forms Do not we truly conclude against all them who contend for Water-Baptism that they are all in the dark about it because they cannot agree either as to the subject or to the manner of its Administration And would they not say the same of us if we should fall into the like Controversie But blessed be God a Remnant are kept by his Power over all these vain janglings and Oppostions These Hearts are knit together in Love and Peace by his Spirit and they strive together and are strengthened by his Might to hold fast the Faith and Order of his blessed Truth But the great scruple is Propounding Intentions of Marriage to the Womens Meetings and no other Reason for it as I remember but that it was Needless A few words to this If one principal end of publishing Intentions of Marriage is to prevent Abuses and to discover deceit in either Party if there be any then all means very serviceable to this end ought not to be accounted needless But our Womens Meetings have been very serviceable to this end Therefore I know not which part of this Argument can be deny'd If it be queried in contempt of them What Service have they done which might not as well have been done by the men Ans This is a gross Reflections take heed of it It s all one as to say A Man might have slain Sisera as well as Jacâ—… Judg. 4.22 A Man might have directed Naaman to the Prophet as well as the little Maid 2 Kings 5. Men might have brought the Tidings of the Resurrection of Jesus as well as the Women Matth. 28. But who art thou that replyest against Gods Instruments Many Instances might be given of later date than the Scriptures of Gods making Women serviceable in divers things of this Nature Therefore such deserve a sharp Rebuke as would put Women out of all Service in the Church and confine them to their Houshold Affairs which I fear is indeed the Bottom and Root of the Scruple If it be replyed That these Services I instance were done by particular private Women and not by Womens Meetings and that they could freely tell their Intention of Marriage to any particular Women but not to a Meeting of Women Answ Then the scruple falls upon them as a Meeting Then the Question will be Whether their Act only of coming together be disliked or their Business The first is proved before and the other must needs be approved by these Instances last mentioned For if the Scripture testifie That God hath often blessed the Advice and Instructions of particular Women much more Reason have we to expect and hope for good Advice and Assistance from them in matters propounded to them when they are solemnly met to wait upon the Lord for Wisdom and Counsel in things committed to their care For there is an absolute Promise of Gods Presence to two or three met in his Name Mat. 18.22 Who dare say this was made only to men Much might be written upon this very Argument But I love both hearing and speaking few words and they in disputable cases especially as close to the point as possible Now I am writing about the form of Godliness I feel it necessary to add a little to prevent the fears that may enter lest some who contend for Form lose Power and turn Persecutors as others have done for their Forms when got into temporal Power and Authority That some may fall from Truth 's Principles is too true but that contending for the Form of it is either a sign they are fallen or a means to make them fall I must deny If others have turned Persecutors it s no wonder because the Principles upon which they stand if well considered do naturally lead them to Persecution And if any of them do not persecute it s either for want of Power or they refrain in Policy or esle the natural goodness tenderness of their own Dispositions over-power their Principles for many mens natural Tempers are better than their Religions But now Truth has taught a little Flock such peaceable Principles as destroy Persecution Root and Branch How is it possible he should persecute that heartily believes Every Religions Meeting ought to have liberty worship God according to their Consciences Can men desire more Moderation That it s not lawful to hurt any mans Person good Name or Estate for matters of Religion and Conscience towards God Can civil Property be better secured from Persecution In brief our Gospel teaches our Hands to seed them that would starve us our Tongues to pray for them who curse us And the God of Peace glory to his Name has brought this little Flock into his Lamb's Nature the New Creature that cannot kill hurt or do violence to any And without this New Nature all Religion is but sounding Brass Now if any man cannot be content with this Liberty that is to joyn himself to what Meeting best liketh him but he will thrust in for Fellowship with us and will exclaim against us as Persecutors if we will not let him have a liberty which we cannot take our selves doth not such a pretending Friend become rather a Persecutor of us than we of him To force a liberty to break Order and to force to conform to it are Impositions alike to be denyed There is a caution necessary to
THE Good Order OF TRUTH JUSTIFIED Wherein our Womens Meetings and Order of Marriage by some more especially opposed are proved agreeable to Scripture and Sound REASON By an old and true Friend to Liberty of Conscience but not to Disorder William Loddington Formality not Form feeds the Spirit of Persecution So the Service of the House of the Lord was set in Order 2 Cor. 29.35 Though I be absent in the Flesh yet am I with you in Spirit joying and beholding your Order and the stedfastness of your Faith in Christ Col. 2.5 Printed and Sold by Andrew Sowle in Holloway-Lane in Shoreditch 1685. The Good Order OF TRUTH JUSTIFIED UNITY in Spirit is the true and firm Foundation of Love and Fellowship All Vniformity and Conformity not springing from this is but Hypocrisie Where there is Unity in the Life and Spirit of Christ there will be Uniformity if no Temptation hinder in the visible Life and Order answerable to the measure received Do men gather Grapes or Grape Leaves of Thorns The Sap puts forth the same Leaf as well as Fruit in every Branch Yet the comparison holds no further than to the faithful because Men may counterfeit but Trees cannot Outward appearances beget a Name as to outward Fellowships He shall by men of the World be reputed a Quaker that is conformable to their Language and Gesture but the true Quaker or rather true Christian takes his Measures from better Foundations There are Vertues Behaviours or Operations of mens Spirits discernable to the Spiritual more or less and according as they feel Unity in these they joyn together to exalt his Glory who brought them to a sence of Life Immortal into which the Hypocrite cannot enter though from this men may fall Never more need to watch and pray that we be not deceived for Truth was never more lively counterfeited nor never did the Mystery of Iniquity work more plausibly to break Sion's Peace What more hated than Imposition What more nauseous than Formality What more ridiculous than impertinent Ceremony The Serpent knowing all this covers himself in some places with pretences for Moderation and Liberty of Conscience as it were in opposition to all Imposition when indeed it s to bring in Bondage to corruption But the Daughter of Babylon is known though decked with Pearls and fine Array glorious words of Truth This Spirit never had a fairer advantage because so many have turned Persecutors under pretences of Conformity to Religious Order and Government so that many Arguments now brought in behalf of good Order though sound and rational yet are slighted because formerly some Persecutors have made use of them to a wrong end Hence strong Delusions get over such as receive not the Love of Truth that they may be saved Yea some who I believe did in love receive it yet not keeping to it are drawn into opposition to its Order whereby Divisions and Offences arise contrary to the peaceable Doctrine of Christ Jesus our Lord. Two things are principally pretended to be the subjects of their Dissatisfaction viz. our Womens Meetings and Order of Marriage But alas if these two things were removed other Dissatisfactions would spring up and others after them till and Order and Government were dissolved They know not what Spirit it is which makes them stumble give it an Inch and it will take more Nay some have even lost all their Profession of Religion by doing so Now because I am verily perswaded in my own Spirit that good Words and fair Speeches deceive many simple hearts I feel a freedom for their sakes some are so far gone pure Reason doth not reach them to write something of what the Lord not man nor by Man opened to me about these matters that after my searching and trying them I might be established glory to his Name in his blessed Truth and enabled in some measure to give a Reason of my Hope and Practice 1. As to the First then this Question in my Understanding contains the whole matter Q. Whether it be agreeable to Scripture for our Women Friends to meet by themselves or to sit speak and act equally with men in Meetings of Business of an outward or temporal nature or tendency Answ I put Scripture in the Question because I know its a common Objection That Womens Meetings are not to be found there Is not this plain limiting the Spirit of the Lord to those only times when that was written as if nothing of Order hereafter may or must be necessary and expedient but what was so in those days There is a general Rule not the worse because Superstition hath abused it in 1 Cor. 14. That all things be done Decently and in Order but the particular Circumstances of Decency and Order are left to the judgment of Christians in every Age a the Lord shall direct them But to come closer to the Question it s very clear to me that our Womens Meetings are plainly agreeable to the scope and fence of the Apostle Paul in 1 Cor. 13.3 where he weightily argues and earnestly presseth us to take notice of it saying I would have you to know That the Head of the Woman is the Man If so then if our Womens Meetings consist with the Headship they are justified by this Scripture but such Meetings as are destructive to it and take it away cannot be lawful That the first are consistent with this Headship and the other destructive appears by what follows If Women be taken into Mens Meetings appointed for outward or temporal Concerns with equal freedom to sit speak and act with them then I see no Headship man hath For if he hath any it must be either in Temporal or Spiritual matters In Spirituals he hath none for the same Apostle Gal. 3.28 affirms That Male and Female are all one in Christ that is in services purely spiritual relating only to Christ and the Soul such as Prayer and Prophecy Therefore in 1 Cor. 11. equal freedom is given to the Woman as much as to the Man to Pray and Prophecy But on the other hand Women Friends meeting by themselves may without the least suspition of usurping Authority over the Men confer and reason together how to serve Truth in their places in such things as are most proper and suitable for them still submitting to the Wisdom of God in the Mens Meetings Whereas being mixed together if a man should make a motion about any business and a Woman should stand up and signifie her dislike of it though in most mild and tender words would not any Man yea an Unbeliever if he should come in and hear it would he not conclude the Women in such Meetings had as much Power as the Men Let none Reply It matters not what Vnbelievers say for Paul himself was very careful that nothing might be done in the Church of Christ that might stumble Unbelievers as hereafter will be noted from 1 Cor. 14. Wherefore he knowing Man's Headship to be owned