which hath been the Cause why so many have been bewildred about the things there declared Spiritual and heavenly Things are not diâ—cernable by carnal Men they are hid from their Eyes till the Light shine out of Darkness to give them the Knowledge of the Scriptures they are as a sealed Book and they labour in a Labyrinth of Uncertainties I do say again The Light in all Ages hath made known Doctrines fit to be obeyed though not the Histories and Narratives of other Mens Actions which is thy silly Objection against the Light 's Sufficiency But one thing I must not forget on which thou didst not depend a little as an Instance to prove thy Conceit viz. How could we have known that Swearing in any Case were unlawful if it had not been written in the 5th of Matthew Swear not at all Dial. 1. p. 22. But this I proved to thee to have been revealed above 400. Years before that was written but what is the Reason thou over-lookest that Answer Clinias was taught by it rather to suffer a great Fine then swear the Essaeaens had rather dye then swear which was long before Christ came in the Flesh Was not the Light then a sufficient Rule for their practising of an Evangelical Doctrine by thy own Argument But T. H. art thou not greatly ashamed that because I supposed upon thy Principle thy Light and Rule to be two Reas against Rail p. 39. That therefore I contradict my self and overthrow mine own Opinion saying If Light be given to understand the Rule then it self is not the Rule much less greater then the Rule and as if thou hadst come rightly by this Consequence falling into thy customary Insults telling me Tâ—is is so far from being Truth against Fiction that it discovers me to be a rash heady confident and ignorant Man one that neither cares what he sayes or affirms Hadst thou any Regard to God thy own Conscience thy Neighbour or thy own Reputation thou wouldst never commit much less continue to practise these horrid Wrongs against me However as I said before so again I affirm that supposing the Scriptures were the Rule that which informs me of the Rule and teaches me how to use it must be greater then the Rule in that it teaches me to know and do what the Rule cannot do of it self I query then if tâ—is Light be not the Rule how and which way I come to understand and use the Scriptures c. therefore eminently the Rule the Terms of my Argument for the Question lay not upon particular Rules C. The Primitive Christians took not their Measures from the Light within but from the Will of God revealed to them p. 46. Q. This is Confusion it self Are the Light within and the Will of God revealed inconsistent things Who was it revealed to them Paul turned from Darkness to Light the Will of God but the Light And what was it taught them the Truth when John said They had received an Anointing which abode in them and taught them all things unto which he directed and with which he left them John 1. 2 27. And doth not the same Apostle tell us If we walk in the Light we have Fellowship one with another c Was not the Light then the Rule of their Obedience and the Way in which they were to walk for the Accomplishment of that Prophetick Speech Isa 2.5 Oh ye House of Jacob come ye and let us walk in the Light of the Lord. And is there any thing plainer then that the Apostle Paul describes the Children of God to be such as are led by the Spirit of God Rom. 8.14 and that he exhorts the Galatians to walk in the Spirit chap. 5.16 and the Ephesians to walk circumspectly which was according to the Manifestations of the Light chap. 5.14 15 16. Finally does not the same Apostle pronounce Peace on as many as walk according to the Rule of the Nâ—w Creature Gal. 6.16 I further told thee that the Waldonses Lutherans Protâ—stâ—â—ts â—alvinists c. made the Testimony of God in their Consciences the chief Ground of their Belief of the Scriptures Reas against Rail pag. 48. C. That the Waldenâ—es c. made the Testimony of their Consciences the chief Ground of the Belief of thâ— Scriptures is confidently said but more then ever W. Penn is able to prove Q. But if W. Penn is able to prove that the Waldenses Lutherans Protâ—stants Calvinists yea and Independents and Anabaptists too have made the Testimony of God in their Consciences the Ground of their Belief of the Scriptures wilt not thou then appear to have told a confident Untruth Let us hear what they say That the Waldenses held so thou mayst inform thy self if thou pleasest out of their History penn'd by John Paul Perin of Lyons lib. 1. cap. 1 cap. 11 cap. 13. Luther taught That the Spirit is required to the Vnderstanding of the whole Scripture and of every part thereof Again The Scriptures are not to be understood but by that very Spirit by which they were wrot Tom. 3. fol. 169. John Bradford a worthy Martyr thus answered the Arch Bishop of York who catechised him how he came to know the Scriptures We do believe and know said he the Scriptures as Christ's Sheep not because the Church saith they are the Scriptures but because they be so being thereof assured by the same Spirit that wrote and spake them Book Mart. vol. 3. p. 298. William Tindal another faithful Martyr in Hen. 8 his time writes thus It is impossible to understand the Scriptures more then a Turk for him that hath not the Law of God written in his Heart to fulfil it Again Without the Spirit it is impossible to understand them W. Tind Work p. 319. p. 80. B. Jewel against the Papists hath this Passages Fâ—esh and Blood is not able to understand the holy Will of God without special Revelation therefore Christ gave Thanks unto his Father and likewise opened the Hearts of his Disciples that they might understand the Scriptures Without this special Help and Prompting of God's holy Spirit the Scriptures are unto the Reader be he never so wise or well learned as the Vision of a sealed Book Calvin saith It is necessary that the same Spirit that spake by the Mouth of the Prophets should pierce into our Hearts to perswade us of the Truth of what they delivered Instit lib. 1. cap 8 Beza saith That the understanding of the Scriptures should be fetcht from the same Spirit that dictated them Bez in Nov. Test 2 Pet. 1.19 Pet. Martyr taught That it is the Spirit of God that reveals the Truth in the holy Scriptures Com. loc p. 2 cap. 18. H. Bullinger asserted in his 4 Decad. 8 Serm. dedicated to K. Edw. 6. That men fetch the Vnderâ—â—anding of heavenly things and Knowledge of the Holy Ghost from no where else then from the same Spirit What sayest thou to this T. H Can the Holy
he loâ—â— Suffering thou froward he was good to his Enemiâ—â— thou base to thy Neighbours Surely thou hast forgâ—â— that if thou walkest as he walked thou must have do with that dangerous Doctrine of Perfection as thou else where reputest it But at thy Rate of quoting this Scripture and following of Christ thou mayst as well bring in Circumcision and the Passover as Baptism and the Supper Christ told his Disciples The Spirit should lead them into all Truth after his Ascension and his beloved Disciple John referred the Churches to the Anointing C. You tell us these Ordinances were used as Figures and Shadows no longer to endure then till the Substance comes viz. The Baptism of the holy Ghost The Reason can be no other then the vain Conceit of a deluded mind for they are no Figures of the Baptism of the Spirit therefore this can be no Reason for the abolishing of them Christ commands his Apostles to teach and baptize promising to be with them to the End of the World Q. Who ever said that Breaking of Bread was a Figure of the Spirit 's Baptism It 's a meer Fiction of thy making as p. 107. of Reas against Rail will shew But if Water-Baptism and Breaking of Bread are no Figures nor Shadows they must be Substances and what Difference then there is between thee and Popery in this Point let the Reader judge And for Christ's bidding his Disciples Go teach baptizing Matth. 28. I told thee That no Water was mentioned and that Luke in the first of the Acts sayes before the Commission mentioned by Matthew could be given at least executed John baptized with Water but ye shall be baptized with the holy Ghost not many Dayes hence And then comes the Commission in Force Go teach baptizing how with the holy Ghost turning People from Darkness tâ— Light from the Power of Satan unto God C. If the Baptism of the holy Ghost do put this Commission in Force as thou saist then the Obligation to those Duties signified in the Commssion cannot be taken off If so thy Argument falls Q. A poor Shuffle indeed Does my Argument fall because thou beggest the Question which is Whether their Baptism be with Water or the holy Ghost C. If Baptism of Water be not intended then none not the Baptism of Afflictions for the Apostles were not to persecute Not the Baptism of the holy Ghost for that was a Promise not a Commission p. 63. Q. Thou dost but triffle with us still Though to be baptized was a Promise yet to baptize was a Commission To be baptized not many Dayes hence was the Promise of Christ but go and baptize all Nations which followeth was a Commission and that it was with no other Baptism Christ's Distinction sufficiently proves viz. John indeed baptized with Water but ye shall be baptized with the holy Ghost not many Dayes hence stay till then and go and teach baptizing all Nations c. C. To baptize with the holy Ghost was none of their Duty it being properly Christ's Work p. 63. Q. It was both their Work and Duty witness that Simon Magus would have bought that Gift of Peter And that Paul baptized with the holy Ghost Acts 19. Did he not therein do his Duty C. Is it proper to say I baptize you with the Spirit into the Name of the Spirit Q. Yes if thou hast the Spirit unless thou wouldst make a counterfeit Christiaen of him whom thou without the Spirit baptizest into the Name of the Spirit wouldst thou have a Man baptized into the Name and not into the Nature of the Spirit Can a Man baptize into Spirit and into Life without Spirit and Life God did convert reconcile baptize beget and build up Thousands to himself by them unto whom the VVord of Reconciliation was committed and who were Embassadors in Christ's stead Now as for Water-Baptism what Paul sayes of himself I may say of his Commission It was not behind any of the rest yet he denies Water-Baptism to be any Part of it and is as plainly rejected of him in Point of Institution as any Thing in Scripture So that either Water-Baptism is none of Christ's Institutions or else Paul had no Commission to perform Christ's Institutions which were strange T. Collier determines this The Baptism of Christ is the Baptism of the Spirit But if any of you can shew a larger Commission then Paul had let him produce it if not I must conclude they Run and are not Sent. §. VII Of the Doctrine of Justification I Perceive â—y what thou hast writ of Justification thou intenâ—st to end at the rate thou hast manag'd the Controversie all along I mean with the same shuffles and injustice I will set down thy Charge the Answer thou makest me give and thy Reply C. Thou hast holdly affirm'd that Justification by that Righteousness Christ fulfilled for us wholely without us to be a Doctrine of Devils Apol. pag. 148. What sayst thou is this Q. This Apology cited was written against a malitious Priest in Ireland Reas ag Rail p. 68. If thy Position cannot be prov'd it will be no Excuse to say It was given to a malitious Priest yea thy Folly and Rashness is the more aggravated c. p. 96. Q. As if I had given that Answer not to inform Persons against whom the Book was writ and the Occasion of the Passage but as one unable to say any thing in my Defence to extenuate the Fact and Excuse my writing it I perceive rather then want Occasions to Abuse me thou wilt make them But what sayst thou concerning Justification C. Thou supposest the Doctrine of Justification by that Righteousness which Christ fulfilled wholely without us to be a Sin-pleasing and dangerous Notion What Reason hast thou so to esteem it p. 67. Q. I do so taking my Words in my Sense and my Reasons are 1st Because wholely witâ—out us is an unscriptural phrase 2 dly It takes away the necessity of all Inward Work 3 dly No man is justified without Faith No man hath Faith without Sanctification and Works therefore the Works of Righteousness by the Spirit are necessary to compleat Justification C. Whether a sincere Faith is necessary to our Justification is one thing But whether such a Faith be our sole Righteousness by which we are Justified is another p. 67. Q. And whether T. H. be not aâ— idle Shifter is another thing Was it the Question Whether our Faith were the sole Righteousness to Justification or whether Justification were by a Righteousness wholy without us and our Faith too If a sncere Faith be necessary then because Faith is not Faith without Work Justification is not wrought wholely without I told thee before that this Doctrine of thine speaks Peace to the Wicked whilst wicked But there is no Peace to the Wicked saith my God C. It is horrible wicked to conclude that what Christ hath done and suffered without us is to speak Peace to the Wicked whilest such
writ so many slight things we should not have seen that Envy Passion base Shuffling Insolence c. that thy Writings now abound withall Therefore under all thy higher Conceits thou standest condemn'd of the Light Be exhâ—â—ted first to obey it before thou undertakest to write of thiâ—gs thoâ— vainly thinkst beyond it Testimonies concerning the Light Within Munsterius Castalio Vatablus Drusius Clarius Coâ—ureus upon Job 24.13 chap. 25.3 They are of those who Rebel against the Light Vpon whom doth not his Light arise say that this Light is of the Divine Wisdom and Fountain of Light alluding to the Psalmist 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and Mat. 4.19 The People that saâ—e in Darkness saw great Light Also see â—â—ese Men Erasmus and Camero upon John 1.4 9. I shall for a further Defence of the Light produce some Testimonies from several Gentiles some Hundreds of Years before Christ Orpheus His Hand reaches to the End of the Sea his Right Hand is every where â—hen within of him alone are all things Clem. Alex. Strom. lib. 5. Thales thus There is but one God he is Glorious forever he knows Hearts and tells Thoughts He makes the Teller of his Thoughts God as in Amos 4.13 Pythagoras thus God resembleth LIGHT and TRUTH he is one he is not OUT of the World he is the SALT of all Ages ONE HEAVENLY LIGHT and Father of all things only Wise Invisible yet Intelligible The very Language of the Apostle Jambl. Just. Mart. Heraclitus thus God is not made with Hands Pythagoras What things are agreeable to God cannot be known unless a man HEAR God himself Again Having overcome thy Rebellious Appetite thou shalt know the COHABITATION of the Immortal God and Mortal Men whose Work is Immortality Eternal Life Tim. de Anim. Mund. Sophocles speaking of the Preceptâ— written in man's Heart saith God is their Father not Mortal Nature Neither shall they ever be abrogated for there is in them a great God that never waxeth old Again saith he This is with respect to man's Conscience a Divine a Sacred Good God the Overseer Oedip. Tyr. Cl. Alex. Str. l. 5. Socrates had the Guide of his Life within him and preach'd as he was moved by it even in â—he Streets And dyed for Reproving the Corruptions of the Atheâ—ians in Manners and Religion Ploâ—in taught That man had a Divine Principle in 〈◊〉 which maketh a True and Good Man Hiâ—ron called it A Domestick God They held Victory over their Sins by the Power of it witness Chilon Socrates Plato Zeno Antipater and others which Doctrine of Perfection thou T. H. with all thy pretended super-â—dâ—â—d Light can't tell how to swallow As they prest Perfect Living so they clearly laid down Eternal Rewards the Pure to Godâ— the Impure to Chains said Pythagoâ—as as if he had read that Scripture writ Six Hundred Years after him The Pure in Heart shall see God The Good saâ—d Socrates shall be united to God in an inaccâ—ssible Place the Wicked in conveniâ—nt Places suffer due Punishment And though they might not have the Jewish History and Chronicle yet they had a sufficient Law and Light within to Salvation and such as trusted in it came to Salvation by it and so much the Apostle sayes Rom. 2. And for the Fathers that they confirm the Testimonies of the Gentiles and speak not of another Eternal Law and Light briefly thus Justin Martyr in his Apology saith God has built to himself a natural Templâ— in the Consciencâ—s of men as the place wherein he would be worshipped and there men ought to look for his Appearance Clem. Alex. Admon ad Gent. It is the Voice of Truth that Light will shine out of Darkness Therefâ—re does it shine in the hidden part of Mankind Strom. l. 5. Man cannot be void of Divine Knowledge who naturally or as he comes into the World parâ—akes of Divine Inspiration Lactant. de Cult ver The Law of God is made known unto us whose Light clearly discovers the Path of Wisdom That Law is pure and unspotted Reason diffused through all the World Aâ—hanas contr Gent. The Way to attain to the Knowledge of God is Within us which is proved from Moses who saith The Word of God is within thy Heart and from this saying of Christ The Faith and Kingdom of God is within you §. II. Concerning the Soul of Man Counterfeit I affirm that G. Fox sayes the Soul of Man is Part of God's being without Beginning and infinite which is to say The Soul is God Dial. 3. pag. 19. Quaker I have two things to say First That in case G. F. so holds thou hast done unworthily to conclude generally against the Quakers In thy former Dialogues thou chargedst it upon the Quakers and now thou layest it directly upon G. F. Are such Shiftings Runnings from Generals to Particulars allowable in Disputation Is this equal Dealing But 2dly I deny that G. F. so holds what sayest thou to that C. G. Fox in his Great Mystery p. 90. in Answer to one that said There is a kind of Infiniteness in the Soul yet it cannot be Infiniteness in it self speaks thus Is not the Soul without Beginning coming from God returning into God again Hath this Beginning or Ending and is not this Infinite in it self Can anything be clearer then that G. F. makâ—s the Soul the Subject and not the Divine Life Ibid. pag. 20 21. Q. Yes that there may For it is clear enough that G. F. intends by the Soul and Breath coming out from God the Divine Breath or Soul of the Soul as Augustine calls it and as Mach Neshemah Pneunia Anemos and Spiritus signifie 'T was this made Adam a living Soul to God Thou dealest unfairly with G. F. and us in making his Questions about this both his and our Affirmation That the Soul or Spirit of Man is God A manifest Falsehood and Abuse And was not the Death threathned Adam upon Disobedience the Loss of this They that read G. F's Books with a more impartial mind then thou doest may see that sometimes he speaketh of the Soul as of the Man pag. 91. where he sayes That such as receive the Light receive Redemption whâ—r by their Spirits Bodies Souls are sanctified and sometimes he speaks of the Soul as respecting that Breath of Life by which it became a living Soul to God which is Man in the Heavenly Image He that reads page 90 91 100. may discern the Truth of this But why art thou not angry with the PRIEST for talking of a kind of Infiniteness in the Soul 'T is at the Quaker and not the Principle thy Gall is stirr'd For a kind of Infiniteness â—ust be Infiniteness and not a Finiteness Did G. F's words at most rise higher What further doest thou object C. But G. F. saith pag. 100. God breathed into man the Breath of Life and he became a Living Soul and is not this which cometh out from God part of God which Soul Christ is
not absurd yea blasphemous to talk of God's redeeming the Seed Ibid. Q. No more Blasphemy then is in the Scripture which sayes Out of Egypt have I called my Son a Place of Burdens But I the less wonder at thy Ignorance in these Heavenly Things who never yet drunk of his Cup nor was baptized with his Baptism nor knew the true Fellowship of his Death and Sufferings but art now adding to them by as provoaking Impieties as any man of this Age hath committed against him Give me thy Judgment of these Scriptures and my Consequence from them And God saw that there was no man and wondred that there was no Intercessor therefore his Arm brought Salvation to him and Righteousness it susteined him Isaiah 59.16 Again The Year of my Redeemed is come and I looked and there was none to help and I wondred that there was none to uphold therefore mine own Arm brought Salvation unto me and my Fury it uphâ—ld me Chap. 53.4 5. Whence it is no Contradiction to say That God did rid himself of the Enemies of his own precious Life or that he brought Salvation to himself C. I infer from your Words this horrid Absurdity that God redeems himself p. 37. This is thy Truth against Fiction Q. It is not from our Words but the Words of Scripture and but that thou art become shameless I should wonder that any Man pretending the Scriptures to be his Rule should charge plain Scripture with Absurdity and Blasphemy C. Thus Christ is at one and the same time at Liberty and in Bondage redeeming and redeemed conquering and yet pressed down And though this kind of Language be Folly and Madness yet thou tellest us thou art content to use it p. 38. Q. And it were well if thou wouldst be contented not to abuse it Is this thy Religion to vilifie the Language of other Peoples Religion nay of holy Scripture it self But how dark art thou T Hicks to make bâ—th a Wonder and a Scoff at Christ's conquering and yet being pressed down at the same Time when the Scripture so plainly holds forth that he is crucified by such counterfeit Christians as thou art at what Time he reigns in the Hearts of his Children And is not the Spirit said to be quenched by some at what Time it lives in others And is he not grieved by the Rebellions of some whilst he is delighted in others Was not God at Liberty at what Time he said They made him sâ—rve with their Sins And was he not whole at what Time he said He was broken Ezek. 6.9 Canst thou reasonably infer because of these Expressions us'd after the manner of men that it is Absurdity and Blasphemy that God heals himself delivers himself and eases himself of his Enemies Words of equal Import Methinks thy unsavory Carriage should reflect Shame upon W. Kiffin with his Elders c. to suffer such irreverent Trash to come out of their Congregation if they value their Credit they will not suffer thee any longer thus upon the Ramble But before I leave thee in this Section I have one thing more to charge thee with and that is not only the Abuse of our words by concluding from Man's being turned to seek after a lost God and Christ that God and Christ are in a lost Condition but that they only want Redemption and that Men and Women are not the Objects of Redemption as in 3 Dial. p. 37. Then which nothing can be more false and consequently injurious to a People But I have left wondering that thou shouldst be base §. IV. Concerning our Belief in Christ Quaker ANother Instance by which thou undertakest to prove the Quaker no Christian is his Denyal of Jesus Christ to be a distinct Person without him Is this true or no Counterfeit I accuse you for denying Jesus Christ to be a distinct Person without you p. 25. Q. I say that thou hast varied thy Charge and given thy self an Answer to it out of my Book which was never an Answer to any such Matter viz. Herein thou hast shewn thy Ignorance and Malice nor is it so in my Book but Ignorance or Malice Thou also omitteth the Ground of my so speaking which is not fair viz The Quakers say that Christ is in them Christ is God-man is God-man in them Again there is but one Christ born of â— Virgin that suffered at Jerusalem Can that Christ be in Man In Defence of which strange Construction of our Belief thou hast offered nothing to what I opposed Howbeit I desire my Reader to take notice that since thou pretendest to own but one Christ and sayst that it is impossible that Christ should be in Man that thou both denyest the Scripture and contradictest thy self there is not any Doctrine clearer in holy Record then that of Christs indwelling with his Saints Joh. 14.20 23. Chap. 15.4 5. Chap. 17.23 Rom. 8.10 2 Cor. 13.5 Cal. 1.16 Col. 1.27 Revel 3.20 The same Objection thou makest against us holds good against them as thus Christ is God-man can God-man be in the Corinâ—hians What might not a T. Hicks have cavilled against Christ and his Disciples â—s well as against us Is this the Way to prove the Quaker no Christian that makes that Thing Error which can only constitute Men right Christians For if Christ be not there no Anointing can be there which John sayes leads into all Truth Besides thou contradictest thy self as thou mayest see Dial. p. 22 23. But to thy present Charge C. This I object against you your denying Christ to be a distinct Person without you to which thou speakest nothing signifying thereby that yâ—u are pinched Ibid. p. 26. Q. I told thee under the Head of Perversions that this was not all thou madest us to deny for thou didst untruly infer Our Denyal of Christ's Bodily Appearance concerning which thou speakest nothing signifying thereby that thou art pinched unless it be to deny thou ever saidst so as p. 26 31. thereby adding a Lye to the Shuffile But why are we pinched because we say nothing to a Doctrine the Scripture sayes nothing of Give me one Place that mentions Christ to be a distinct Persoâ— without us art thou so destitute of common Sense as to think of proving the Quaker no Christian because he denies a Doctrine not expressed in Scripture and yet at that Instance to magnifie the Scripture as thy sole Rule Verely thou makest thy self a Derision to all wise Men. But go on make the best of thy Charge C. G. F. in his Great Mystery p. 16. writes thus Thou art deceived who sayest Christ is distinct from the Saints Can any Man eat the Flesh of Christ if his Flesh be not in them Q. This probably thou mayst have found in thy Brother Faldo 's Book and thou mightst have found it defended in mine Whâ—re is Distinct among G. F's Words which are these But God and Christ is in his Saints and dwell 〈◊〉 them and walk in
anointed the God-head and with what and to what End These are thy own Words and they belong to thy own Doctrine Thou didst object against our Principle and hapned to contradict thy own Principle in it I sent thee the Objection home again for thee to disingage thy own Principle of it First Thou growest angry tellst me of contradicting my self and returnest me the Objection never considered but back it must go and when thou hast found the way to clear thy own that shall serve for thine and mine too And thus I leave thee and thy Cavils in this Section §. V. Concerning the Gospel-Rule LEt us hear what thou hast to say to the Arguments I gave about the Rule C. You deny the Scriptures to be the Rule of Faith and Practice uâ—to Chriâ—tians p. 38. â— Thou would t here insinuate as if our Faith and Practice â—ere not according to Scripture because we do not assert them but the Spirit that gave them forth to bâ— the â—ule especially in new Covenant Times I grant the Scriptures are to be fulfilled and that many Heavenly Exhortations Reproofs Instructions therein contained are to be regarded by us but that which is my Rule to direct my Underâ—tanding what is fit for me to embrace and what to reject and how to understand that which is to be received mâ—st be the Spirit of Truth which alone gâ—ves true Discerning Therefore let us hear what thou sayest to my Argument Reas against Rail p. 25. as thou they self has cited it Dial. 3. p. 38. viz. That which is more Ancient more universal and more able to inform rule and guide that must more eminently be the Rule But that hath been and is the Light within therefore that hath been and ought to be the Rule of â—aith and Practice What dost thou offer to invalidate this Argument C. Then herâ—in I have not misrepresented your Belief p. 39. Q. But is this the Way to confute our Belief Or did we charge thee with misrepresenting it in this particular Dost thou think thus to evince the Truth of thy Objections to grant us the Matter objected It seems we are to take this for thy Answer and consequently that the Light within is eminently the Rulâ— for ought thou hast said against it Proceed C. â—ut forasmuch as you often say you own the Scriptures and the holy Rules therein contained In what Sense do you acknowledge them to be your Rule Q. Thou makest me to answer this Question thus The Scripture is the Rule of Historical Faith the Spirit can only be the Rule of saving Faith Reas ag Rail p. 40. But can any Man that hath the least Draghm of Honesty or Justice think this the Way to confute me to skip over near 15. Pages containing several Arguments made to evidence and confirm the Truth of the firâ—t Hadst thou not a Conscience that dares do and say any thing thou couldâ—t never have given me such an unhandsom Slip. But let us hear what thou sayst to that which thou hast cited C. If the Light within be more able to infâ—rm rule and guide and therefore more â—minently the Rule What need is there of an historical Rule p. 39. Q. Did ever any Man pretending to be in his VVits talk so idly what is it but to say If the Spirit of God was alwayes more able then the Scripture what need is there of having Scripture Is not this to infer from God's Condescension to Man's Imbecillity that the Light and Spirit of God are Imbecil Is not this to reprobate all external Means and to conclude God Christ the Light and Spirit insufficient because that any were ever used Is it a good Argument becauâ—e the Light does not reveal such a thing therefore the Light cannot reveal such a thing which is the utmost Strength of thy Opposition I further told thee that those who gave forth the Scripture came by the Enjoyment of those Thingâ— through the Light and Spirit of God or they could never have writ them therefore the Light and Spirit and not the Scriptures were the Rule of their Faith But of this and abundance more to the same Purpose thou takest no notice I further told thee that the Prophets saw him with this Light unless they saw him without Light and that those that believed him when come could not have received him had they not beheld him with an inward Eye Thus thou quotest me What Reply makest thou to this C. That the Prophets saw him by the Light of divine Revelation I grant And that none do believe in him what do not know him is true but that this Light or inward Eye is the common Light in every Man that thou must prove p. 42. Q. It was formerly and is again proved to be the same Light though not the same in Manifestations Every one had thâ— same Light but not the same Prohecies nor the same Sights When thou hast proved two Lights it will be Time for thee to talk at this Rate Noâ—hing did then nor can now lead truly to know and confess to the Word that took Flesh in which VVord was Life and that Life the Light of Men but â— uch Discoveries as proceed from a Measure of the same Light as hath been already proved And should I admit of thy Construction that the Light by which such as had a true Sight of Christ before and at his Coming was not the common Light as thou callest it but that which thou thy self allowest to be divine yet wilt thou give me Leave to infer in thy Name that the divine Light was insufficient before such time as it reveald those Things to the Prophets and gave thoâ—e that were alive at Christ's Spiritual Coming a Knowledge and a Sense of them because they did noâ— know them before they knew them For at this Rate thou â—reateâ—â—â—s aboâ—t the Light within the Light within doth not do this 〈…〉 the Light within cannot do it presumptâ—â—â—sly concluding it insufficient to discover those things that either do not need a Discovery because they are already known or that it seemeth good to God in his VVisdom to conceal C. If the Scriptures tell thee â—here was such â— Man as Moses David and Matthew c. without which thou couldst not have known any such â—â—ing so the Scripture tells thee what they spoke and wroâ— of therefore the Scriptures must be the Rule of thy Belief both concâ—rning those Men and their Sayings p. 45. Q. I grant that the Scriptures tell me there were such Men as Moses Dâ—â—id and Matthâ—w and that they wrote But what is it that gives me to believe the things they wrote to be true The Rule of â—aving Faith is that we speak of and not that which is historical It is impossible for me to understand the Truth of those Things till I come to that Spirit of Truth that gave them forth for no Man can know the Things of God save the Spirit of God The want of
Ghost be this Discoverer and Instructor and yet not eminently the Rule But in asmuch as thou chargest me with denying the Scriptures Authority and then railest p. 61. because I place it upon the Teâ—â—timony of the Light and Spirit of God In the Conscience Hear what D. John Owen sayes The only Publick Authentick and Infallible Interpreter of the holy Scripture is He who is the Author of them from the Breathing of whose Spirit it derives all its VERITY PERSPICUITY and AUTHORITY Exerc. 2.7 9. VVhat would have become of me T. H. if I had spoken so broad as this This makes the Spirit Interpreter Judge and Rule of our Knowledge therefore eminently the Rule T. Collier an ancient and considerable Baptist shall be my last instance here There is the Law and Testimony in the Spirit saith he as well as in the Letter The Law of God is in the Heart there it is written and there it testifies the Truth of God And if any man speak not according to this Rule it is because there is no Light or Morning risen in him See his Works pag. 249. Again Others know no other Touch-Stone nor Tryal no other Light by which they judge of Truth then Scripture thus putting it in the room of the Spirit which is Light and the Greater Light For they say they cannot know Truth till they bring it to the Letter for Tryal thus making an Idol of the Letter setting it up in the room of God Ibid. pag. 248. I could produce a great Cloud of more Witnesses both of Fathers and other Authors But I hope I have discharged my self of my Engagement and made appears That what I asserted was not too hard for me to prove and therefore thou T. H. wert too confident in saying so but thy notorious Ignorance in these things may a little excuse thee But thou chargest us with undervaluing the Scriptures a Fault I abhor to be guilty of Let me hear in what C. You contemptibly call the Scriptures the Letter whilst you entitle some of your own Pamphlets The Voice of Wisdom A Message c wherein you manifestly prefer your own Writings before the Holy Scriptures pag 55. Q. This Cavil has been answered again and again I told thee before and thou hast cited me thus If at any time we call the Scriptures Letter it is not that we mean our Books are the Spirit or that we irreverently set them the Scriptures below our own Writings but upon a Comparison only between the Scriptures and the Spirit that gave them forth What Return dost thou give to this C. It is aggravate not to excuse your Error Q. It is an Error to call the Scriptures the Letter in a Comparison with the Spirit And an Aggravation of that Error to prefere the Spirit before the Letter But as this all thou hast to say to the Matter C. Why have you not respect to this Comparison when you entitle your own Books But that you would have us to believe that your Writings are more eminently from the Spirit then the Sciptures p. 56. Q. How do we prefer our Writings above the Scriptures which we prove by the Scriptures I perceive it is become almost impossible with thee to make any other Constructions then what rather shew thine own Envy then our Sense Was there ever the same Reason for a Comparison between our Writings and the Spirit Did we ever set them up for the only Rule of Faith and Obedience and that in Opposition to the Spirit as the New Covenant Rule and those that maintain that Plea If there were the same Occasion thou shouldst quickly hear of the same Distinction and Comparison But go on C. Hence it is That when both stand in Competition you thus distinguish them Letter yea Dead Letter as the proper Term for the Scriptures but The Voice of Wisdom to your Books Art thou not ashamed of this Basâ—ness and Prophaneness pag. 56 Q. Whatever I am I perceive thou art not ashamed of making me base and prophane too and printing a most horrid Untruth to render me so There is not a Sentence in thy Book gives a clearer Testimony of the Injustice of thy Carriage then this in hand For nothing is more frequent with thee throughout thy Dialogues then first to invent something odious in our Name and then as if none so Modest and Righteous as thy self cry out Who would not be astonished at this Blasphemouâ— Absurdity p. 30. Art thou not ashamed of this Prophaneness and Baseness p. 59. O Impious Man c. p. 13. But let this determine this Point between us Produce but one of our Friends that ever brought his VVritings in Competition with the Scriptures calling the Scriptures the Dead Letter his own Books the Voice of Wisdom c. and I will yield thee to have written Truth If thou canst not thou hast but fastened Baseness Prophaneness and Lying upon thy self with thee I leave them for there thou ought est to rest till thou canst better clear thy self of them I charged thee with having wronged Geo. Fox and Rich. Hubberthorn in making them to say It is Dangerous for ignorant People to read the Scriptures and then fixing the Name of Jesuit and Romanish upon us producing their words at large which thou hast basely contracted to thy own Ends leaving out what might most make for their Innocency and the evincenâ—â—ent of thy own Forgery Thou givest the words thus The Letter killeth is Dangerous In my Quotation and in their own Book thus The Letter which killeth 2 Cor. 3.6 is Dâ—ngerous for thou Priest takest in hâ—re to war withâ—l against the Saints with thy carnal Mind giving out thy carnal Expositions upon it All this T. H. thou hast unworthily left out that thou mightest the better fasten thy Fiction upon G. F. and R. H. I ask Is it not Dangerous to read the Scriptures to these Ends And the Ministers of the Letter are the Ministers of Death here thou leavest out again which is to Condemnation and you take it to make a Trade with it and with what the Prophets Christ and the Apostles said so that some have 60 and some 100 l. a year but Christ cryed Wo unto such Whited Walls having left out this part that concerned the Hireling thou puttest in again And here you read with Danger who speak of them and speak a Lye because you speak of your selves Here again thou lettest drop and you wrâ—st the Scriptures to your own Destruction as the Unlearned and Unstable do and is not this Dangerous in them Then thou bringest in this And to you it is Dangerous to read or speak of them omitting all that here follows by me cited to clear them of thy Charge viz. who know not the Life of them as the Pharisees who were learned in the Letter but knew not Christ But I say Blessed is he that readeth doth understand All this so necessary to give the Undertstanding of their true Meaning thou
hast designedly overlookt However let us hear what Defence thou hast made for thy self C. The Question respects the whole Scripture which you say is Dangerous and Killing The Ministers of the Scriptures are Ministers of Death and it is Dangerous for such to read them What a shameless Man art thou thus to confess what I accuse you of and yet condemn me as a Forger pag. 57. Q. These foul and confident Questions thou usest to ask me with which thou wouldst insinuate thy Innocency do but aggravate thy Forgery For first How do I confess what thou accusest us of when it is neither to be found in my words nor theirs upon whom thou chargest them viz. It is Dangerous for Ignorant People to read the Scriptures 2dly I told thee they meant by Ministers of the Letter Ministers of the Law and Death because of Transgression and thou makest it Dangerous for such to read the Scriptures whereas G. F. and R. H. said It was Dangerous for Hirelings and whiâ—e Walls to use them against the Saints with their carnal Expâ—sitions opposing them Pharisee like to the Life of them wresting them to their own â—estruction It is Dangerous for such to read them to such Uses and Purposes not in any Sense as thou untruly sayest Of this thou takest no notice So that here the Reader may plainly see thy first Forgery since it was not the Man of no Letters but the Men of Letters such as the Scribes and Phariseâ—s who used them against the right Heirs of them of whom G.F. and R.H. â—poak And thy second is not less visible in that thou hast imposed upon the Reader my Confession of thy Accusation who never confessed any such thing These are some of thy wonted Tricks ever anon imploy'd to cover thy Nakedness with and to get off unsuspected from encountering the Difficulty of our Charge Proof or Argument I appeal to God's Witness in my Reader 's Conscience to right us against the many Injurious Practices against us And shall conclude with this Acknowledgment and Argument concerning the Scriptures We do receive and believe the Scriptures given forth by Holy Men of God as they were moved of the Holy Ghost and that they are profitable for Doctrine for Reproof and for Instruction in Righteousness yet since they are Writings relating to the things of God no man can understand them or have an assured Testimony of them but by the Spirit of God 1 Cor. 2. which alone reveals the deep things of God It was not the Scripture but the Father that revealed Christ to Peter Mat. 16.5 Further The New Covenant Times are Times of Fulfilling of the Scriptures by the pouring out of the Spirit therefore Peoples regard should be to the inward Drawings and Leadings of the Holy Spirit The Law outward was a Rule to the Jew though not eminently unto them for the Lord gave them also of his good Spirit what for if not to rule them But the Law of the Spirit of Life promised to be reveal'd within under the New Everlasting Covenant was certainly to be the Rule under that Covenant being a time for the more immediate Flowings forth of Spirit and Life We do not say that every one hath hereunto attained But we affirm that God hath given a measure of his Spirit unto Men Women that they might receive the pretious Promises unto w ch we direct them for that End I know that T. Hicks according to his wonted Baseness pag. 49. interprets our saying that we deny the Scriptures to be the Rule of Faith and Practice in honour to the Divine Light to be our denying rejecting the revealed Will of God thereby must hate their Parents because they are to love Christ first Mat. 10. This were to say that Paul's regard to the Law of the Spirit of Life in him as his Rule was not to fulfil but to deny rejâ—ct the Law without If this Consequence be false againsâ— Paul How can T. H.'s Consequence be good against us Is it to reject and deny the Scriptures to have the good things they declare of brought in by the Eternal Spirit And since the Scriptures can not fulfil themselves in us but the Spirit is not the Spirit the Rule and Guide to our Divine Knowledge and Enjoyments But from our asserting the Spirit to be the Rule T.H. infers That we deny to live according to the Scriptures a Miâ—take he fell into before which I offer'd to help him out of in my Answer for to own the Scripture to be the Rule and to live according to the Scriptures are not one and the same thing For the Gentiles did the things contained in the outward Law and yet had not the outward Law for a Rule Rom. 2.14 Nor is it to be doubted but that Paul and the primitive Christians lived up to the outward Law that is the inward Law outwarly declared by the Law of the Spirit of Life which was the Rule of their Obedience Yet can any infer that the outward Law and not the inward was the Rule of their so living And I must tell thee Th. Hicks that thy Exalting of the Scriptures is but an Endeavour to throw down the Spirit which Sacrifice be it known unto thee the Lord of Heaven loathes And I will say to thee as G. F. and R. H. said to the Priest They are Dangerous to be read and used for those Evil Purposes thou employest them upon But as they said though that also thou didst overlook so say I Blessed is He that doth read and understands them Testimonies concerning the Rule Irenaeus pag. 242 384 389. The Writing in the Heart is the Rule Again l. 5. c. 8. The Word giveth his Spirit to all to some according to Condition And l. 4. c. 30. The Fathers justified by the Righteousness of the Law in them therefore had no need of REPROVING LETTERS W. Perkins Works 3 Vol. pag. 220. The Light of Nature and Grace teacheth to do as we would be done to pag. 221. It is the Fulfilling of the Law the Rule to judge Scripture That of God made the Rule Something in the Conscience Happy Times if Men would follow it Bp. R. Sanderson De Obligat Conscient pag. 127. A Rule of Discerning without the Scriptures Regula discernendi extra Scripturam And T. Câ—llier in plain words saith The Spirit of God who is God is the ALONE RULE of a Christian Gen. Epist to the Saints chap. 12. The Spiritual Man judgeth all things by the RULE OF THE SPIRIT ibid. The Law of the New Testament is written in the Heart ibid. But what need is there further of my maintaining this Point concerning The Light being the Rule in all Ages since thou hast made such ample Confession That the Godly in all Ages before Christ in the Flesh were turned from the Darkness to the Light pag. 64. This Light must needs be within because the Darkness is there And it must needs be sufficient because
Auditory to prove thee guilty of Forgeries Self-contradictions and gross Errours from thy own Dialogues Instead of yielding to the Test even about matter of Fact where thou hast grossely abus'd us thou didst in plain termes shuffle by a fresh proposal of Question as if thou wert to teach us where and what to charge our Enemies with and then prescribe Rules with many taunting Expressions omitted in thy 3d Dial how to behave our selves on purpose to evade the Meeting I would have thee know it was our Right to make the Complaint and hadst thou been a man of any Honesty thou wouldst readily have considered it and joyn'd issue upon our Charge This in Reputation to thy self as well as Justice to us thou oughtst not to have declin'd And yet to aggravate these shuffles G. W. proffer'd in his 4th paper to thee a note of the particulars charg'd as Forgeries c. if thou desiredst it so willing was he and others to have seen thee in a publick Auditory Bâ—t seeing this would not do he and I went to John Gladman's desiring him to offer thee from us we wouâ—d meet thee and who else to defend thee in a publick Auditory with thy Dialogue in one band and the Bible in the other the fairest of tenders to make thy own Book the Subject and the Scriptures thou sayst we reprobate A Rule But this thou canst not but know was also rejected So that to conceal these Shifts nay to say thou art Shuffler and which is worse to charge G. W. with both Shuffling and Lying at what time thou art so manifestly guilty of both is to highten thy Vnworthiness to a monstrous pitch But as the Matter of thy Book is injurious so thy Languague insolent and scurrulous intitling us Cheats Impostors a mad arrogant abusive prophane Mâ—n Knave in discourse Coxcomb impious Cursers Lyars Blasphemers most implacable Enemies to the Christian Religion as vile Impostors as ever were influenced and inspired by the grand Impostor the Devil calling our Religion malignant Errors a mystical Romance Satan's Snarâ—s Blasphemy blasphemous Absurdâ—ties I proclaim to the World that your Religion is a meer Cheat calculated only to the Service of the Devil and your own Lusts and abusing our religious Language with such like Expressions as these Impertinent Canting your idle non-sensical and blasphemous Prating Termes that as much unbecome thy Pretences as they resemble the rest of thy Practices Canst thou with good Conscience upbraid E. B. with rebuking a Priest in Scripture Language whilst thou hast taken the Liberty throughout thy Dialogues when and where thou weâ—t never provok'd of such foul and frothy Expressions as becomes not any Man writing of Religion Is this to make the Scripture thy Rule or to act the Christian against the Quaker and to prove the Quaker none No such matter T. H. but much the contrary and that in the minds of not a few and those too of thy own Way though of a better Spirit who have disown'd them Root and Branch I would not after thy Example reprobate all with thee God forbid That God has turned these ill design'd Attempts to our Advantage remember what sort of Salute was lately given thee by a Religious and Ingenious Person in Bristol once a Preacher among the Independents at thy reflecting upon his adhering to the Way we profess viz That he read thy Dialogues before he ever read the Quakers Books or Answers and that the disingenuity of that Dealing apprehending it to be no real Dialogue was a FURTHERANCE of his INQUIRIES and so of his CONVICTIONS grounded upon thy ABUSES an Argument never to be answer'd by thee T. H. if thou shouldst write Three Dialogues more unless they were as remote from these as thou wert from Honesty when thou writ'st them who doest first Forge and then Lye and Rail to maintain it Think not with these Comical Courses to obtain thy Ends upon us nor raze the Foundation of our Religion by thy abusive Interludes in which thou hast not imitated Christ but Ap'd the prophane Stager writing a sort of Mock Religion instead of solid Controversie therein playing the Humourist with the Vulgar like Aristophanes of old though with worse Malice and less Wit who sacrific'd the Vertue and Gravity of Socrates and his Friends to please their Enemies and profit himself the Hinges on which thy Dialogues turn The First is manifest and so is the Last to the value of 300 Books at an Impression if some of thy Assistants do not wrong thee as we suppose not ask the Bookseller else besides â—erquisites hereby proving thy self one of those unruly Vain-Talkers who writest things thou oughtest not for filthy Lucre sake applyed to us in thy Title-page but due to thy Self And however sweet these Courses may relish to thy worldly Palate thou wilt find them deadly Poysonous in the End at what time thy own Dialogues and not I nor any influenced by me will prove so many ASSASSINATORS in thy own Bowels God if it please him give thee Repentance that thou mayst escape his fierce VVrath to come Amen Now sober Reader I shall address my self to thee and God's righteous VVitness in thy Conscience whether I have acquitted my Self in this Controversie as becomes a Christian-man against the Violent Uâ—fair Aâ—â—â—ults of my Adversary and if I may not with very good Reason conclude that he has all this while but counterfeited the Christian and abused the Quaker and consequently that he and not the real Quaker is quite another thing then a Christian Let Righteous Judgment take place 23d 6th Mon. 1674. A true Lover and hearty Wisher of thy Souls Felicity W. P. Not every one that sayth unto me Lord Lord shall enter into the Kingdom of Heaven but he that doth the Will of my Father which is in Heaven Mat. 7.21 For he is not a Jew which is one outward neither is that Circumcision which is outward in the Flesh But he is a Jew which is one inwardly and Circumcision is that of the Heart in the Spirit and not in the Letter whose Praise is not of Men but of God Rom. 2.28 29. But us then he that was born after the Flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit even so it is now Gal. 4.29 But be of good chear I have overcome the World Jo. 16. last Pag. 13. line 7. read two first Dialogues p. 34. l. 32. r. Dial. 3. p. 41. p. 35. l. 28. r. spoak l. 31. r. was p. 41. l. 26. r. 76. p. 46. l. 14. r. of â—his A Postscript by another Hand WE expect to hear what the Baptists in and about London will say as being appeal'd to concerning their Brother Thomas Hick's Proceeding in his Three Dialogues and whether they approve thereof or of such Play-Books or Romances about Religion yea or nay for they are highly concerned to give Judgment and to be plain to the World herein as they tender the Glory of God and Reputation of Religion c. NOw if you the Teachers and Elders c. among the Baptized People do not publickly clear your selves of Thomas Hicks and these his unjust Proceedings against us and hereafter he further persists therein VVe may take it for granted that you own his VVork and may justly deal with him and pursue him not only as Tho. Hicks but as the Baptists great Champion peculiar Agent or Representative But if you ingenuously clear your selves of him and his Corrupt Perverse VVork then his future Miscarriages will be chargeable only upon T. Hicks himself and you will appear to the VVorld so far clear thereof and approve your selves the more honest and sincere towards God Truth and Religion THE END * Not that I allow him to have rightly châ—rgd us in every thing in that Sense neither * Which was only admitted with respect to its Illumination or Measure of its Appearance in man It was never G. W's Principle or Words tâ—aâ— the Life which is the Light of men Joh. 14. is but in it seâ—f a meâ—r Effect for he owns it in its oâ—n Being to be no other then God himseâ—f and values not the Counterfeit's Quarrel * T. H. takes that literally which is metaphorically spoken both in Scripture and our Books and makes liâ—eral Consequences upon metaphorical Premises as if â—od had Hands Eyes Head Arms could be imbondaged broken c. after a Worldly Manner or in â— strict and proper Sense and â—ot rather in a more hiddeâ—â— c Metaphorical Signification He is herein eâ—ther very blind or very maliâ—ious I would ask him how he knows the Scriptures extanâ— are perfect both as to Number and Copy and Translations Several Books are â—oft that is certain does the Scripture tell us what they contâ—ined if not the Rule is impeâ—fect by T. H s Consequence The Copies are above Thirty in Number at least in which there are Thousands of different Readings the Translators greatly differ and have greatly câ—rrupted Aâ—so T. H is to look to prove the present Collection Canonical If he pleads the Testimony of â—od within his Cause is gone if Tradiâ—ion I ask how Is he assured the first Canon was rightly made The Council as either Faâ—â—ible or Infallible If the First what Assurance haâ— he If the last it grants Infallibiâ—ity since the Apostles 360. Years but begets the Quâ—stion How does T. H. know they were in the right And if in one Thing why not in alâ— But those â—ouncils conâ—radicted and none ever gave the Cataâ—ogue as now it is nor can T. H. give a Canon for it And if he cannot assure us that it is eâ—â—ct with the Origâ—nal free from Variation Corruption Mâ—s-translation c. as it is not he can never prove it the Rule as he eâ—â—eavour in Opposition to the Spirit for thaâ— iâ— alwayes pâ—in and peâ—fect But more of thiâ— in the Christâ—an Qâ—aker not to lessen Scrâ—pture but to conâ—ound such Caviâ—â—ers