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Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
spirit_n	good_a	grace_n	lord_n	7,245	5	3.6848	3	false

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A96893	Inquiries into the causes of our miseries, whence they issue-forth upon us: and reasons wherefore they have born us down so low; and are like to carrie us yet lower. The Independents and the way of worship, they stand-up for, is renderd clear of this grievous charge... This charge is drawn-up against the Independents, by three worthies, men, I think, of name, all (I) D.P.P.W. Pryn Esquire; but more fully and with more devouring words, if more can be, by Dr. A. Steuart in his last book... In six sections. Whereof the first onely is here; a just vindication of the way of worship very commonly misunderstood; very falsly interpreted; but very truly called Independent... By Hez. Woodward.; Inquiries, into the causes of our miseries. Part 1.	Woodward, Ezekias, 1590-1675.	1644 (1644)	Wing W3491; Thomason E22_1; ESTC R21697	22,269	25

my words more than another neede to doe yea and abominate such words also all and every one which have such an Aspect upon my brother but I say again and I say truly I have not yet found any such word in my booke but I can too easily over-looke my own words or actions as an unfit Judge in such matters Yet let me tell you what I ought to doe and what I would doe so I shall the better argue against my three brethren hereaster That if I were to speake to Turker or Jewes Atheists or Papists the most untoward and roughest men in the world yet I would render my words as smooth as oyle and as s●ft as Butter that the men I speake unto might know in their hearts and be perswaded in their soules that I have no war against them in my heart no but that I keowing the terrour of the Lord doe seeke their peace their soules peace that I would perfwade with them for their everlasting good And by this means J would hope to make my words keene in the hearts of our Lords and His Christs chiefest enemies and if J had a word from the Lord by the grace of God that J would fet-on with all my might but with the spirit of meeknesse We have an excellent patterne for this To speak so to my Brother as that my Brother may perceive that I would do● him good with all my Heart and all my soule For so the high God the great Lord of heaven and earth Even so he speaketh to his poore servants I will doe you good sayes He with My whole heart and My wh●le soule Oh the goodnesse of God! His kindenesse to his creatures so he treates with men O! blessed be His name Have these three servauts of the Lord imitated their Master I should not put it to Question for past all Question they have done cleane contrary What the good King said in the Anguish of his Spirit the same these men have said in the tartnesse frowardnesse eagernesse Isa 38. of their own 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 bitternesse bitternesse bitternesse in their tongues and that could not be but when there is more in the heart aboundance of bitternesse there whence it is that their pens have beene dipped in vinigar and steeped as in gall bitternesse bitternesse as if they intended not as sure they did not to informe their brethren and recall them from error if in any they are but to inbitter their spirits and give them a bill from their hands in full assurance that they will endeavour without the grace of God to discover and lay open their brethrens nakednesse to all the world with their whole heart and with their whole soule Is this to imitate the Lord God Father of mercies God of all Consolations To put this out of question I le say this more that there is not a man on this side our narrow seas whose hand has appeared for the Presbyterian way of Church Government not one man except that excellent man Mr. Herle it were a notable indignity offered unto him not to except him that has not bent the same hand against his brethren making his words sharp as arrows shot-out against their very faces I had almost said and hearts too so giving all the vvorld to knovv I speak my jealousie at least that their passions are strong but their cause is weak But this I know That we have not so learnt the Lord Christ This is not after our Lords manner nor after the Customes of the Churches of God I have said vvhat I have to say touching this filthy and putred matter vvhich like a box of the vilest and impurest oyntment is suffered to run abroad through Church and State to fill the house there vvith its filthy savour I le close this box vvith this stopple it may be of use to stop the mouth against devouring words Such kind of vvritings or Reasonings savouring so strong of flesh and blood vvill never do the world good to make them knovv they lie in evill Nor the cause good mightie Adversaries thereunto nor the Church good To make them knovv their sins and confesse their errors never do the State or Church good this vvay vvhile the world stands unlesse by accident as the Logicians say i e by the wise disposing and gracious ordering of an Almighty hand so they shall do all good But not per se as vve say not by their own naturall working vvhile the world stands And when the vvorld must fall to peeces and the Things there crumbled all to nothings and the persons there must render an account of all they have said and done then these kind of writings will be bitternesse bitternesse Their Authors shall taste if they repent not of their own Gall and wormwood there vvhich they themselves have put-in and it shall be their drink and portion for ever Then the tongue which was seton fire of hell and repented not shall have Hell and fire long enough as long as eternitie is long for ever and ever It is a sad period I will not put Amen to it my soule deprecates praies against this end But I le pray in prayer if I could in prayer I would pray Lord give the brethren all foure I might say fourescore here and there and every where give them Lord repentance for all their hard words and ungodly deedes against the brethren the faithfull servants of the Lord Amen make them Lord as all the Tribes shall be all one as one stick in Thy hand to beate away the doggs and swine All as one assembly of Saints built-up as a Ciey that is compacted together or as a house founded upon the Rock of Ages fast and sure for ever notwithstanding the fierce windes great rains and water-flouds for this Rock is our Rock He will be our guide even unto the death 1 Pet. 3. 8 9. Finally be ye all of one minde having compassion one of another be as brethren be pitifull be courteous Not rendring evill for evill or rayling for rayling but contrarywise blessing knowing that ye are thereunto called that you should inherit a blessing FINIS

INQVIRIES Into the causes of our miseries whence they issue-forth upon us And reasons wherefore they have born us down so low And are like to carrie us yet lower The Independents and the way of worship they stand-up for is renderd clear of this grievous charge That they hold forth the licentiousnesse of wicked consciences Tolerations of all sorts of most detestable Schismes Heresies and Religions as Idolatries Paganisme Turs●sme Judeisme c. so opening a floodgate to let in this inundation of sins and sorrows upon the Land This charge is drawn-up against the Independents by three worthies men I think of name all 1 D. P. P. P. Pryn Esquire But more fully and with more devouring words if more can be by Dr. A. Steuart in his last book which in reference to the Brethren thousands in Israel relisheth as does the Gall of Aspes or Adders poyson under the tongue In six Sections Whereof the first onely is here A Just vindication of the way of worship very commonly misunderstood very falsly interpreted but very truly called Independent Most humbly devoted to the Honour of Almighty God and King of Saints presented to all the three Assemblies in all the three Kingdoms in Parliament now with hearts engaged upon the great matters of the Kingdom but before and above all to beat out a way of worship holding forth to the world a sutablenesse to the Great God full-up to His Mind and Rule in His Scriptures humbly presented to all these and to all Christian people whose habitation is on earth and conversation in Heaven By Hez Woodward Prov. 25. 18. A man that beareth false witnesse against his neighbour is a ma●●le and a sword and a sharp arrow Job 42. 7. My wrath is kindled against thee and thy two friends for ye have not spoken of Me the thing that was right Isa 2. 23. Wo unto them that take away the Righteousnesse of the Righteous from him Warranted by the God of Heaven being ordered according to His Churches book on earth and published for His Churches sake in the very close of this year 1644. Section I. VVHere the Reader is satisfied in point of Licencing books Informed in the meaning of those words Dependent Independent And the men so called are cleared from the cavils of the froward Mistakes of the ignorant heavy charges of knowing men with other grace matters worthy all mens sad and serious considerations Section II. Some praecognita matters already known and granted are premised As that the evils of Sin and Punishment are from our selver Punishments are merae mearly so where Gods Hand is immediate and Man passive or mixtae where Gods Hand is and mans also what God dies and Man does Gods Hand has the preheminence Gods End and Mans Ends how differents Gods End the Glory of His excellent Goodnesse His Churches Glory alse Some things granted in point of Reformation how active the Divell with his servants are in Reforming times and have been alwayes as at this day c. Section III. Enquiries touching Peace what it is how we improve the Peace we have Who they be that petition for Peace and of whom whether not of those who world but cannot give it And of those who if they could will not give it while the world stands being adversaries and enemies to their own peace to the peace of God and good men and true Religion of God the worshipping of Him in spirit and truth All this declared and confirmed by two most notable stories out of the Chronicles of God Section IIII. Conclusions ●●uching war that it is an evill an onely evill that our war is no more unnaturall than it is for fire to burn nor a civill war as when a Kingdome fights against it self but sacred when the kingdome of darknesse fights against the kingdome of light as now it is Enquiries touching the Battels of the Lord what they are who fight these Battels and what Souldiers they ought to be how furnished What hinders victory what brings it as upon Eagles wings Section V. Enquiries touching our keeping Covenant and Fasting dayes what we do and what our Ministers should do before us Section VI. Enquiries touching our evill Doctrines and what may be the causes thereof and whether the remedies used for the removing these Causes are soveraigne having the stamp of God upon them and warrant from His mouth Section 1. REader now that you have taken-up the book I le do my best to close with thee at the first as one not a little ambitious of thy favour and therefore can be content to crave thine eye and eare both thy best attention all along Do not fear to afford me this favour I crave it for Gods sake for His Causes sake for His servants sake for your sake the Lord knows and not mine own Doubting not to speak all along like a free man and a true Subject and not as one abusing my liberty or my glory But using it as a subject of the Lord Christ to His glory and the good of my Brother Therefore I cannot doubt neither That my words I shall speak can need an Apology And yet that my words may have a good relish upon your pallate and a sweeter touch upon your eare I will preface a little touching some matters first 1 Touching my licence here I have no Imprimatur no licence to speak To which I could answer Yes that I have for by the grace of God Truth and Reason the old Licensers of old have licenced my words all along And truly my spirit could never go forth with any other way of licensing or midwifring such births as are books into the world surely no better hand to officiate there than what Truth and Reason affords me And if so be our Conceptions and Births want either one or both let the parent smart for his lye and be fast locked in Bedlom till he recover his wits again And if he be Libellous as too many are let his own place the pillory instruct him to better manners But if he hasblasphemed God or the King of Saints lot him find neither friend nor enemy but let him dye if he has blasphemed his God Gods Law this and mans Law that carried all along through a series of time and never interrupted nor reversed or made null till it came thorough the Inquisition Court at Rome whence we have our Imprimatur Let this be printed And then sure enough it served to promote the Doctrines and practises of the Church there which my soul abominates It will be said here That I go a crosse-way to an Ordinance of Parliament Truly that startles me not a little the Lord knows I look upon an Ordinance of Parliament as an Ordinance of God not to be disputed but obeyed I kisse the hand of Authoritie and am readie to be called forth to its foot therefrom to be made Active or Passive yet I cannot conceive that I have gone a crosse-way to that Ordinance for licenfing-books

I went in obedience thereunto craving a licence though I think it my due and ought to be given me but could not obtain it The truth is If the Book bear Independent upon its front and be thought to speak for that way which God Himself will cleer and justifie before all the world it is silenced before it speaks And so is dealt more injuriously with than have been the greatest offenders in the world for they have had leave to speak for themselves in all ages of the world upwards to as it is at this day It is replyed That writing for this way of Church Government does but hinder our course in the way of Reformation making the Divisions greater and the Rent wider I answer If I were perswaded so I would rather put my hand in fire then unto paper But I am perswaded in my heart clean otherwise and by the grace of God shall be able to make it appear in the sequell all along It is said agen These are my thoughts that this scrible will do no hurt will not make the rent wider my Judgement onely I answer not mine onely I have asked advise about it enquired seriously into the matter and why should I be ashamed to say more I have given up my judgement unto the Lord and I have this answer from him and assistance from his right hand so guiding mine That I shall so I hope and am confident speak nothing which shall dishonour his holy holy holy name nor his cause nor his people the congregations of God I have a sober confidence that I have licence from Gods hand and shall keep close to the word of his mouth and therefore sith I could not have a licence from man I can be carelesse of it That it may not be said I am ashamed of my name for indeed I am not being it was a very good mans name which yet I know cannot make the man the better I have for commanding reasons affixed my name though very unwilling to appear so openly as I was most willing to do with a Licenced But the want of it can be no shame to me some little blame rather to him who would not give it me having no time to enquire into the papers as some too superstitiously perhaps but their superstition teacheth were wont to do to enquire into a paper which lay as low as their foot before they would put their foot upon it with neglect lest the name of their God or something of God should be there Certainly the Name of God is here and I will not doubt to say again I have His Licence to print it But the great stop was because this answering is like to cause answer upon answer I answer God knows that and will turn all to good I am a free man and may take my liberty not standing charged as servants do not to answer again And indeed I cannot conceive what they can answer unlesse as some did who had spoke roughly enough and being modestly reproved for being so rough answered as roughly that sith their hand was in they were resolved to put it forth again as roughly as ever As pleaseth men let it be but if I am honoured with any answer from a Doctor for the other that learned and excellent man I hope his apprehensions are more digested now and he has repented of them that they were indeed subitan but for the Doctor I hope he will learn at length to reprove his Brother modestly and meekly and then I shall accept his reproof with all thankfulnesse but if any roughnesse appear as it hath to others which I must rather expect his reproof will do me no good I shall sleight it sure putting it to some privy shame or open reproof And so much touching licencing books and my want in that particular And so I come to that my soul does more desire to give you satisfaction in according to the Scriptures of God and to unfold your understanding First touching the true sense and meaning of these words Dependent and Independent as I find them legible and explained through the Doctrines and Conversations of those men amongst us called by that name Briefly now and as is best fitting this place Dependent is a learing upon the Lord Christ the onely Beloved of the soul upon His hand for strength upon His mouth for Direction It is a setting-up the Lord Christ as King yea it is the advancing of the Lord Christ in all His offices King Prophet and Priest to in and over His Church the souls and spirits of men It is a cleaving of the soul to Christ a closing of the heart with Him saying Thou Lord art my Righteousnesse and my strength and my wisdome and my glory and my crown of rejoycing This is to be Dependant when our Lord Christ who is All to the soul has all its Dependence And this is to give the Lord God His due the glory of all His attributes specially these two the glory of His power and of His wisdome And to the Lord Christ King of Saints His dues the glory of all His offices anointed of the Father King Prophet and Priest of His Church And hence I issued my thoughts and thus concluded That the people no matter whether many or few poore or rich learned or unlearned Master or Disciple that the people we call Independants are the most Dependent persons in the world This is the sum I shall return to this again Now to the other word 2 Independant What is that I le tell you what it is in the judge●ent of they say as good a Logician as is in England now he is here I le name him for honour sake Doctor Adam Steuart adding onely this the Lord adde to His Logick that one thing necessiry which one man cals Baptized Reason He and we mean sanctified by the Word and prayer in the Holy Ghost and then he will be good indeed Pag. ●8 This man saies A That Independent is a proud and abominable word proper to God Almighty B It is granted so to be as He consters the word and in vulgar construction also as we silly men understand it too that to be Independent is to be as an Island cut off from other Land to live as men turned-in-upon themselves regarding themselves bearing fruit to themselves as an empty vine to Nemini fructuosa Hos 10. 1. do as they list speak as they please to hold out and maintain what Doctrines agree best with flesh and blood and to spread them abroad before Israel and before the Sun under the very look of the Magistrate What has he to do with them Be they Jews or Gentiles Turks or Infidels Atheists or Papists be what they will be as abominable as they are rendred to be or as we can conceive them to be why yet it is their conscience so to be and what hath the Magistrate to do there or with them So Dr. Adam Steuart forceth matters against these

men and forceth his conscience too I verily think all along I should have been fuller here But Reader if this be true in whole or in part if these men we call Independents be such men in judgement and in practise as they are suggested to be then let the Civill Magistrate do with them as K. Hez with the Altars and high places pluck them down lay them even with the ground leave them not while there is any one standing And as with the brazen Serpent that King dealt with grinde their faces beat them as small as the dust and then hold them up to the winde throw them into the River as the best Christians were dealt with of old that the enemy might take from them as he could all Hope of a better Resurrection let I say the Magistrate do as much to these men for so much King H●zekiah did to the fore-mentioned Idols And it is full-up to the mind and heart of Dr. A. Steuart and so it follows in his Logick and so he concludes against them seven times at least That these men are as contrary to the true Doctrine Worship and Discipine as Altars and Idols were and now are I le speake for these men and though they neede not my Apology yet I thinke my selfe charged so to doe I have observed their conversations I have heard their Doctrines almost these 16 yeares I have read them specially of late with all diligence these I mean touching Church-Government I shall speake now in the Language of the three Tribes as heartily as they did being verily perswaded so these men would speake to clear themselves in these matters so forced against them Joshua 22. ver 22. The Lord God of gods the Lord God of gods Hee knoweth and Israel be shall know if it be in rebellion or if in transgression against the Lord save us not this day That we have spoken or done ought to turne from following the Lord or if to offer to the Lord prayers of our own or to the people the Church of God Doctrines of our own Ordinances of our own let the Lord Himselfe require it And let him to whose hand the Lord has committed the sword consecrate the fame sword on us to the cutting of us off from the earth So these servants of the Lord can say And Reader be not deceived with vain words but be perswaded in thy heart that these men so slandered doe regard others as they stand charged by the word of God to regard them They account thy soule and mine more precious then is the whole world and all the treasures there for these may be valued but the soule cannot And knowing the terrous of the Lord they perswade men to bee reconciled They abominate those in Doctrines and practises al which turne away from following the Lord. * Deut. 13. They know the Command of the Lord is in as full force and vertue now as ever it was let such practisers intisers rather be cut off that their mouthes neay be stopt They admit not of any Toleration neither that Jews nor Papists be tolerated in a Kingdome any surther then as means may be used whereby to enlarge the bounds of their Lord Christs Kingdome To bring them under the subjection of the Gospel so far to be tolerated no farther not as Jewes and Turkes are tolerated for gaine of money or as we tolerated Papists here suffered them in the Land engaged our selves against all means for their conversion that is abominable But to suffer them amongst us with a pure aime to the gaining of soules and a single eve to Gods Glory this is tolerable sure for it is according to the will of God that the bounds of his Sonnes Kingdome should be enlarged and all meanes used whereby to concince the ganesayers To Conquer the Rebellious to make them obedient both in word and deede And for this great conquest over the soules and spirits of men the throwing down those Reasonings the strong-holds there for this mighty worke the sword of the Spirit the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of God is appointed and consecrated for that very end by God himselfe so I say nay so the Lord God sayes and so say the Indepeaedents from his mouth A. But it is a proud and an abominable name proper to God Almighty sayes the Doctor B. Proper to him indeede to him alone and yet not improperly given to a peculiar people a Royall Priesthood to be Independant upon man Dependant upon the Lord Christ leaning upon that beloved the onely stay and staffe of His People A. The very name Independent renders them odious to all men It overthrows all kinde of government takes away the rights and priviledges of Assemblies Councels Sinods takes from them their dues B. Noe These men give to men their dues all and every whit to the least scruple They will raise men up to their proportioned heighth no highter for that were to doe unto men the greatest injury that could be imagined to raise up men above the Starres of God is to throw them downe even to the sides of the pit To make men Lords over the consciences of men is to render them abominable to God and good men and as Antichristians every whit as are Arch-Bishops and Bishops They will give unto men the power which God allows them They will raise-men-up to their proper pegg as high as befitteth the highest creatures upon earth yet so as exalting ever more the high God their Creator and the Lord Christ King of Saints These men will appeale also to men in point of Counsell and power both so far as they will consult with the Scriptures of God with their Rule and Iudge there both one So Dependant they are even upon men Independent in this sence only not bottoming themselves or their faith upon men for that were to doe as a foolish builder who built his house upon the sands nor stating their determinations touching Church Government after the mindes and pleasures of men not as they say and would have it but as the Scriptures of God will have it where they have their Rule A. But who shall be judge of that rule B. A strange Question The Spirit of God there for as was said He is the Rule and Judge both And this seemes to come up close to the good word of God which we read And the reamnant of Iacob shall Micah 5. 7. be in the midst of many people as a dew from the Lord as the showethe rs upon the grasse that tarrieth not for man nor wayteth for the sonnes of men And thus Sir I have given you as plain and briefe * a Commentary on these It is more enlarged in my Answer to six Questions 24 will shrinke up 10 so few which wayt a licence but have lost nothing by wa●ting so long two words Dependent and Independent as possibly I could And now if you will reckon me among the Independents I shall account

it no wrong I shall not put it to the head of injuries And 2 then account me in the number of such evill doers and Troublers that I doe helpe with them to open a floud-gate c. If or so they are suggested to doe Truly Sir I must account this an honour For fo they persecuted A lesser matter then this in fight is registred a persecution when it was as this is against the beloved childe and faithfull servant of the Lord who walked after the Spirit so they that were after the flesh persecuted the first Fathers Patriarkes Prophets and Apostles all the Saints and Armies of Martyrs upward to as it is at this day Therefore as the saying is verbera pursue your persecutions you doe it I know out of ignorance sedaudi beware and consider what you doe and now harken while I shall endeavour to render you satisfied touching these two matters especially the second 1 I am indeede an Independent in judgement my soule goeth out with them in that way with them perswaded in my soule that their ayme is wholy to the setting up the Lord Christ Him in all His Offices in and over the Church in the soules and spirits of men And that their eye is single in all this looking strait-on to the Glory of the high God and salvation of soules 2 And that Independencie is no more nor any more intended by it then purely to take themselves and others off from their own bottomes that all might be set upon the Foundation indeede the Rock of Ages the Lord Jesus Christ 3 And all this so as they give the Rulers of the people their standing firme fast and unshaken like the perpetuall hills and everlasting mountains A fast-standing I say while the world stands in their full power force and vertue for no Law or Ordinance have they against this the Rulers standing being the Ordinance of GOD appointed and decreed by Himselfe 4 For that way of worship and Church-government my judgement stands for I am verily perswaded it is the way of the New Testament new if you will but no more Novell than is that Testament 5 For their walking in that way it is in such order with such agreement complying of Spirits such an eying and fixing upon the rule what is decent and expedient what serveth most aptly tends most compendiously to promote the edification the building-up of the Temple of Christ That I have this perswasion that they who have observed the way and the brethrens walking in it will speake of it in the Apostles words Joying and beholding your order and your stedfastnesse Col. 2. 5. of your faith in Christ Truly Sir my judgement is for that way of Government Gods way I am verily perswaded As for mans way Master or Discipline my judgement is not for it further then as they walke in the way with a right foote nor for their gathering of Churches further then as they doe it by the call of the word so as man may not bee said to doe it but God rather by the call of His Spirit and word of His truth Nor is my Judgement for mens scatternings in the way though there will be scatterings there Let those scatterers be marked and rebuked sharpely for they should walke exactly All about them in sight cloathes gesture And all from without them in the eyes and eares of men their words and actions should be vocall all as we say speaking forth holinesse to the Lord grace and edification to the hearers and beholders But yet if men walke as men scattering their wayes yet these their scatterings must not cast a reproach upon the holinesse of Gods way after which my soule goeth forth And yet my foote my standing I mean is in the other way whereof my thoughts have beene ever honourable as becommeth So of my Minister also one that feareth God above many set over me in that way of Church Government I reverence him heartily I approve his care and acknowledge his aymes and ends to be holy just and good The glory of God The eternall good of soules A. What and yet your judgement for the other way surely looke what way the judgement goes your foote should goe where your heart can fixe there your standing should be B. Truly it may be a truth in what you say but I am not resolved so For first I stand not alone but together with a whole household with me in severall relations to all these as a Husband a Father a Master And truly I dare not attribute so much to my judgement or to a way I think more excellent as to fit loose from my Reverend Pastor or remove my selfe and mine for I cannot allow of a ●ragling family the head going one way and the other part another way I said my selfe and mine from under his care and charge whom I know the Lord has set to look and see-over me and mine 2 I stand still in my spirit resolved there that seeing by a good providence two parties have so eagerly clashed together and so charged themselves and before their God to find out the way of God both of them I hope with pure aymes and a single eye I am at an agreement with my thoughts That the good Lord will beatforth and make plain his own way so as what lay too loose and scattering in the one way shall be gathered-up and strengthened and what might be too high and rough in the other way may be taken down and made more levell smooth and strait for us to walk in I mean and I am full of hope so it will be That there will be by the good hand of God upon His servants notwithstanding their charging and recharging a sweet compliauce anon an yeelding and bending each to others way as neer as can be keeping neer and close to the Word and as is becoming Brethren holding the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace I stand still in my spirit and full of hope touching this matter The meeting of both these wayes inone the good and Holy way Though truly I cannot conceive wherein the Independants can yeeld one foot or one hoof of a foot for they must be daintie if not imperious in Gods matters except in point of power An high point that where and in whom it must be stated state it where they will for I know they will state it as neer as possibly they can look to the mind and will of their God in his Scriptures But I would not have that which the Scripture calls the keyes intrusted in our hands common people For truly what ever we think we know yet is it a point of knowledge too high for us to know how to use them Yet I could speak much more in the commendations of us Laymen then I can for the Clergie-men for when we were at the worst we were better then our teachers not half so brutish as they sound some of us when our Ministers were rotten most

too upon men though they put no great trust there neither stay nor staffe God knows yet dependent upon man for his advice and counsell And accountable for their actions unto men also who shall in the name of Christ require an account of them or of their repentance and faith towards God They will Appeal to men also that is the great question so be they will Appeal to the Scriptures thereunto is their great Appeal to the Rule and Judge there So Dependent these men are whom we call I would we had a fitter name sith it is so ill understood and construed but sure we have not a fitter name then Independant for herein they are content and desire rather to be accounted and called by that name because they have concluded from their Lords own mouth and from the practise of His Disciples in the best times purely primative That every particular Congregation hath from Christ absolute power to exercise of and in it selfe every Ordinance of God No Dependencie in Government or direction in worship from any other than from Christ their Lord and Law-giver made unto His Church their wisdome their righteousnesse their Justification and their Glory Sir There are the premises Now marke what these three men infer how they draw-up rheir charge from hence 1 Ergo These Independents are the prime and chiefe causes of our plagues and miseries sayes the first scribe 2 Ergo These Independents are the Seminary of c. and open a floud-gate to all c. saith the Lawyer this once and I thinke never but this once cleane besides the case doubtlesse God has forgiven him so have his good brethren too 3 Ergo Those Independents are as abominable as were Altars High-places the Brazen serpent when made an Idol so abominable are these men and to be dealt with by the Rulers hands as those Dunghill gods were dealt withall when they were throwne-out as an abomination and accursed things so these men should be dealt withall sayes the Doctor and so concludes And yet has set downe no premises taken out of the Word of God whence he concludes so though by his conclusion he has rendred the brethren the most odious men and abominable that are in the world the causes of all the miseries and distractions here Well let him go on so will I and by the grace of Almighty God I will contest against this conclusion with all the power God will be pleased to vouchsafe unto me And though I shall conclude nothing yet I shall make such inqairies into our miseries the causes thereof as that these inquiries onely shall serve to make a full discovery to all the world touching those matters and with the same labour I shall render the Independents and the way of worship I have not called it their way or mans way as white from those blacks cast upon them and the way as is the cloath that hath gone through seven la●ers I shall have free leave for this sure a licence I meane to enquire what may be the cause of our woes and sighes That every one may put it to question in his own heart set-up the Inquisition court there and so resolve the Question But this is the subject matter of the Third Section Here Sir I have given forth the premises touching the Independents and their Doctrines as the good word of God gives-themforth to me and I have set down the Conclusion which three men one after another as if all had one and the same Spirit have drawn from premises of their own deducible neither from Scripture nor from Reason no nor from sense neither unlesse their own and that darkened with prejudice all along Surely the man that has so much Logick should not have so done I suppose the other two have as my selfe and other men have very little or none at all in comparison with him But he should not have so concluded against his brethren That they are as plagues and pests in Judah Land even as were Altars High-places the vilest Idols there And yet has set downe no premises and so forth as aforesaid It is replyed A That the two brethren plead for a Toleration And that pleading carries more danger in it to Church and State than does the pleading for the Service-Booke Arch-Bishops and Bishops Altars and Organs Crosses and Crucifixes that these may stand in their full force power and vertue And from hence the Doctor has so concluded against his Brethren for the casting-of them all forth B. I Answer and grant That the two Brethren doe plead for a Toleration not of all Religions sure no nor of any which withdraws from God surely no sober man can plead for such a Religion They plead for a Toleration of that Religion or way of worship which they are perswaded in their soule drawes-neerest to God And for Toleration of these men amongst us who have ever lived peaceably with us have spoken good things for us before the Throne of God whose Doctrines have come-up fully to the good word of God and their conversation also as becommeth the Gospel Now God forbid that any rough-hand should be put-forth against these men Yea God forgive our hard words and unchristian thoughts that way A. But surely many whom we call and they call themselves Independent do think themselves exempt from all Laws except that law which rules in their members And think as the Nimrods and Giants of the world do think themselves accountable for their Actions to none but God B. It were well if they could bethink themselves seriously That they are accountable to God but so they do not think But this I know That many walk disorderly loose from their God the Gospel and way of His worship But if there be any who understand Independency so let them be as odious and abominable in mans eye as the Giants and Nimrods of the world mightie hunters before the Lord are in Gods eye and let all men come out against them as they should do against such mighty oppressors To thrust them out of the Land Now let us hear also what is commonly said A. That more have fallen off from that way we call Independent walking their own way following their own fancies than from the other way of Church Government We know not how many have gone-out from us unto them been received there and then have turned away from them again unto abominable wayes of errors not to be remembred here I answer B. This may be and yet the way good and Holy yea an Argument all this of the goodnesse and Holinesse of the way because so many have turned to it and then quickly away from it They went-out from us but they were not of us saies the Apostle And lightly come lightly gone saies the Proverbe These entred upon the way without due consideration upon very light motions before they weighed and pondered their own way or the way they were entring upon And so they are like a ship