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A88157 An answer to nine arguments. Written by T. B. Wherein is plainly from the scriptures shewed, the weaknesse of his arguments, whereby he undertakes to prove both the Church and Ministry of England true; as likewise describing the nature and properties of a true Church and Ministry. Written long since by that faithfull servant of God and his countrey, John Lilburne Lieftenant [sic] Collonell: and now published for further good, by a well-willer to him and the truth. Lilburne, John, 1614?-1657. 1645 (1645) Wing L2081; Thomason E25_7; ESTC R212845 46,842 48

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virtue of his power and Lawes which he hath left recorded in his last Will and Testament for the bodies of his particular visible Churches to elect chuse and ordaine their owne Officers either let them doe this or else I say and will against them all maintaine it that they are Antichrists Ministers set in by the power of Satan in the Kingdome of the seaven headed and ten horned Beast in direct opposition and professed hatred against the Kingdome and Septer of Jesus Christ the eternall S●n of God for they are but false Prophets false Shee Pheards and false Teachers like those in Jeremiahs time that runne before ever God sent them and say they are of his sending when as indeed thiy lye Jer. 14.14 23.21.32 Ezeck 18.6.7 for he never sent any of them Rev. 9.3 Therefore doe you and all those that are under their Jurisdiction looke to it as they and you love your owne soules for the Lord hath not only threatned to plague false Prophets false Ministers and false sheepheards but also all those that give care and submit unto them and are seduced by them Esa 9.16 Jer. 14.15.16 23.15.16.34.39 27.15 29.8.9.18 Ezeck 13.8.9.10 So that it is not enough for a man that takes upon him to be a Prophet and a Sheepheard to come in the name of the Lord and doe part of those things which a true Prophet and Sheepheard of the Lord doth but first of all he must prove his Authority and that he is of the Lords sending else none of Christs Sheep are to give eare unto him John 10. the beginning for Christ hath bid them beware of such seeing many of them were and still a●e to come abroad into the World coming in such a foule deceiving flattering way that they should deceive if it were possible the very Elect Mat. 7.15 24.11.24 Mar. 13.22.23 2 Pet. 2.1 1 J●hn 4.1 and the reason wherefore they should beware of them and try and examine their Authority from whence it is as the Church of ●●●●esus did for which she is highly commended Rev. 22. is because that false Apostles and false ministers all of them are deceitfull workers transforming themselves into the Apostles of Christ and ministers of righteousnesse Therefore all Gods people had need exceedingly to labour for true knowledge and understanding is it is their duty that so they may be able to try and know false Ministers and Sheepeards from true ones least their soules run vpon the Rockes and so be in great danger of suffering shipwrake in submitting and giving ●eare unto those Ministers and Preachers that never were of the Lords sending nor never received their errand from him in the number of which are all the Ministers in England as well the best as the worst done of them being Christs true Ministers but Antichrists Locusts which came out of the smoake of the bottomlesse pit and are fully described in the ninth of the Revelation But I know what evation you will have to prove your Bishops Preists and Deacons true which is to fetch and derive their lineall succession which Rabby Pocklington in his Sunday no Sabboth boasts of from his impiety of Rome that Antichrist and man of Sin and Son of Perdition 2 Thes 2.3 and so thinke to avoyde all that I have said against them and also you will rune to your greasie mouldy Consecration and laying on hands by which you give them your own Holy Ghost namely the spirit of errour of blindnesse and ignorance and therefore if you goe to the Pope and derive their authority from him as of absolute necessity you must this being your best and only Argument you have to prove them true which Mason to the utmost makes use of against the Papists who deny your Bishops Preists and Deacons to be true ones because you schismed away from them and so they want Cannonicall Ordination as they call it and therefore Mason in his booke of Ordination of Bishops Preists and Deacons proves it at large to be a false accusation and that they are true having had an inviolable canonicall Ordination and Consecration from the Bishops of Rome as there you may largly read pag. 10. 41. 58. 62. 64. 88. and so forward to the end Now if you goe this way to worke too as of necessity you must having no other way at all to goe to prove them true then what doe you else but even you your selfe prove your Ministers to be Antichristian whom Mason in his foresaid Booke pag. 77 doth prove by the authority of the Scripture that if they be so it is the duty of all Gods people to seperate from them And as for laying on of hands I say it was but a Ceremony which ceased when the visible working of miracles ceased which if you say to the contrary I put you upon it to prove it a durable and permanent action in the Church of God absolutely essentiall to the making of a true Pastor Teacher Elder or Bishop Also you will say one minister must make an other but your ministers and officers are made by other ministers and officers therefore they are true But I deny that either he that is made or he that made your ministers is true But for the Argument I absolutely deny the proposition and I affirme that it is not essentiall to the makeing of a true Bishop or elder which is all one Titus 1. to be made by other Bishops or Elders for those Bishops Elders and Deacons that were made in the Apostles times were elected and made by the Church who only hath power for that end and the Apostles and Evangelists did nothing else by that action of laying on of hand but shew their likeing and approbation of that action that the Church had performed and of those persons that the Church had made Officers to officiate in her and at the laying on of the Apostles hands God was pleased to worke miracles even to give the Holy Ghost unto those upon whom they was layd which were no officers in the Church Acts 8.17.18 19.6 and also at the curing the Father of Publius of his Feaver Paul laid his hands upon him and healed him Acts 28.8 yea Ananias who was no officer in the Church but a Disciple or a private man as you call them yet he laid his hands upon Saul at the doing of which he received his sight and also the Holy Ghost Acts 8.20.17 So that you see l●ying on of hands in the primative time was not only peculiar to the Apostles and Evangelists themselves bat also to others which were no officers but Brethren out of office and was not only used at the shewing their approbation and likeing of those men that the Church had chosen into office but also at the workeing of miracles as the giving of the Holy Ghost and healing of the Sicke so that I affirme that Action ceased when the visible working of Miracles ceased and is not in the least essentiall to the