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B02748 The doting Athenians imposing questions, no proofs. In answer to their questions and most apparent mistakes, about the people commonly called Quakers and their profession. This being our 5th. answer to their Mercuries of the 7th. 11th. and 14th. of June last. 1692 (1692) Wing D1954A; ESTC R174714 7,803 2

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Power which upholds all things and which giveth Men Life Light and Understanding and from whence the Holy Scriptures first proceeded Q. And whether there was ever one of your Writers who granted it A. Probably some have though not in a strict and proper Sense and Scriptural way of Speaking but in a Figurative putting 〈◊〉 Words or Sayings of God for the Word from whence they proceeded Q. Whether they do not affirm and esteem it imperfect and no compleat Rule of Faith and Manners A. To the first part No if you mean the Holy Scriptures the Law of the Lord is perfect the Divine Truths and Doctrin contain'd therein being given by Divine Inspiration are perfect To the last part by compleat Rule of Faith and Manners Do you mean the whole Bible both old and new Testament Or do you mean the Scripture or Writings therein abstractly and literally taken without Interpretation If with Interpretation who must be the Interpreter Is not the Spirit of Truth the best Interpreter And how can this be excluded a Compleat Rule Or to take you in the best Sense do you not intend The Cooperation of God's Spirit together with those Divine Truths contained in the Scripture working in us Faith and Obedience as your own Word are Do you not think all this Essential to a Compleat Rule of Faith and Practice Though we freely grant the Holy Scripture as it cannot be broken is not only a Rule of Doctrin but contains many very precious Rules to be believed and practised The principal Supream Guide and Rule of Faith being the Spirit Christ promised to guide true Believers into all Truths Q. And whether you think not your own Writings of equal AUthority with it i. e. the Bible A. No. Q. And whatever any true Quaker either Writes or Speaks in their publick Assemblies to be really as Infallible as what was Spoken or Written by our Saviour or any of his Apostles A. No But whatever the Spirit of Christ speaks in and by such or any other fearing God The Truth is unalterably the same for ever Q. 2. Whether you own Jesus Christ who was born of the Virgin to be God equal with the Father from all Eternity A. The same Jesus Christ the Emanuel God with us God manifest in Flesh was certainly God in relation to his Divine Being from all Eternity though as born of the Virgin according to the Flesh he was Man of the Seed of David Q. And whether you own the Man who was of the Seed of David and born of the Virgin and suffered upon the Cross to be the true Christ your Christ and God blessed for ever A. Yea we own him to be the true Christ our Christ and also God blessed for ever Rom. 9. 5. Q. Whether you expect to be saved only by the Merits of what he then suffered A. Our Salvation is only by Christ our Saviour and Redeemer both with respect to the Merits of what he then suffered for us and also to his work of Grace in us to save us from Sin and Condemnation being reconciled by his Death that we may be saved by his Life 'T is only by his Merits and Work and not by our own Q. Or whether you think the same Christ really suffered for you who now sins in Heaven at the right hand of the Father A. Yea the same Christ really suffered for us and for all Mankind he tasted Death for every Man he died for our Sins and rose again for our Justification We see by this your Question what young Students you are and how unskilful in our Christian Principles and Profession and what strange and groundless Jealousies you have harboured against us Q. 3. Whether you own the Holy Spirit to be God distinct from the Father and Son or any of their Properties are distinct from each other A. We ask you Whether the Father Son and Holy Spirit be not One God blessed for ever We say Yea what say you And where doth the Scripture so term the Holy Spirit God distinct from the Father and the Son Or when you say The Father is God the Son is God the Holy Ghost is God do you mean that each is God distinct from the other would that be good Doctrin think ye And what mean you by their Properties distinct from each other Is it not proper to the Son to be called Father Yea the Everlasting Father and to the Son to be sent or to proceed from the Father as well as the Holy Ghost Q. Whether you own the Holy Trinity or Three Persons and One God blessed for ever A. If by Trinity be meant the three Divine Witnesses in Heaven 1 Joh. 5. 7. we own them to be One God blessed for ever Q. 4. Whether you own your Light within to be God the Father Son or Holy Ghost or all three together or only their Grace and Operation within you A. We own our Light within to be a Divine Light of God and Christ 't is a Light of both the Father Son and Holy Spirit who are One inseperable Being and Fountain of Light God who is above all and through all and in you all is our Light and our Salvation whose Light in us and all Men though gradually made known to us is a Divine Principle of Life and Grace which is more than an Operation only Q. 5. Whether you partake of either of the Sacraments in your Assemblies and don't absolutely neglect 'em as they are outward Symbols used by all others who wou'd be accounted Christians A. What Rule in Scripture have you for the word Sacraments and for applying that term to the Elements of Bread and Wine The substance whereof or things signified by those outward signs we partake of in our Christian Communion which you have nothing to do withal Q. 6. Whether you believe Angels or any immaterial Spirits besides the Soul of Man A. Yes we believe there are Angels which are Ministring Spirits besides the Soul of Man What you mean by immaterial Spirits is a question seeing you seem in your 11th Article to grant Angels Spirits to be distinct Substances i. e. then by your learned definition Angels must be distinct Substances without matter or substance distinct Substances yet immaterial Spirits Pray where had you this Learning Q. 7. Whether you believe the Soul of Man to have had any Beginning or distinct Existence thereof after Death A. Yea both that the Soul of Man had a Beginning and must have a distinct Existence or Being after Death We really believe we shall be individually and numerically the same Souls preserved in our distinct Beings by him that gave us life and being and that our Souls shall be as many in Number after Death as now they are before Death And therefore your Charge of the Soul being intirely absorpt i. e. supt or swallowed up in God so as to lose its individuation is an ignorant idle and false Charge 't was the old Ranters Notion never our's
Q. Whether you don 't in terms deny the Resurrection of the Body An. No. Q. And call those fools who affirm we shall rise with the same Bodies we had while living A. The Apostle calls such fools also who question with what body c. and tells them thou sowest not that body that shall be and distinguisheth between the Natural Body and the Spiritual Body between Bodies Coelestial and Bodies Terrestrial 1 Cor. 15. ch Q. Whether you believe any real Resurrection or mean any thing besides Regeneration in this Life A. Yea a Real Resurrection not only by Regeneration from Sin but from Sufferings here and unto Glory hereafter Q. And whether you think every Man's Soul shall be reunited to a distinct Body at the Day of Judgment A. Yea to distinct Body proper to it as it shall please God to give it 1 Cor. 15. Q. 8. Who was your first Founder Or to avoid Cavils who do you esteem your first Restorer Or who first taught Quakerism as Quakerism here in England or in any other Nation A. Christ Jesus was our first Founder Foundation and Restorer and he made use of several Instruments as he pleased powerfully to preach Him and his Name and Power among us Your term Quakerism we reject as being a Nick-name in scorn and contempt cast upon our Christian Religion and Profession Q. 9. Did your People Quake and Tremble or no when they first appeared in England Do they Quake now If not what you give as the Reason of one and t'other A. Many did and some do both fear and tremble at the Word of the Lord in several states conditions and exercises because of the Glory of the Lord and of his glorious Power that 's risen in our day as his Servants did in former Ages though you seem but scornfully to question us in this matter Q. 10. Where we may find your Creed or any account of your Religion and whether 't is not alter'd in several particulars since your rise A. Come and see come into the true Light and see and you may find our Creed our Belief our living Faith in Christ Jesus the Author of it the same not altered but the true Apostolical Creed and therefore neither need nor shall we subscribe to any at your demand and to what purpose should we give you one that is a Creed of our own for you to credit us since you have so grosly reproached and stigmatized us and our Profession as you have done to discredit us with the Titles of Heresies dangerous and detestable Opinions horrid Blasphemies Idolatry c. Merc. Jun. 7. And give Positive Judgment That Fanaticism Enthusiasm and Infidelity together make up the Creed of a Quaker And yet now you are very solicitous to enquire and find out ou● Creed thus preposterous and contradictory you are in your pr●cedure first to give judgment pass sentence and then enquire o● the Parties condemned by you for matter of fact against themselves May you not be sorely ashamed of such extrajudicial proceedings both contrary to common Law and Justice and especially seeing you have no power to impose an Oath Ex Officio to force persons to b● their own accusers and prosecutors It had far better become you to have been sparing of your sentence and condemnation upon the Quaker and his Creed until you had known it and been better informed as to matter of fact charged by you You say It is in vain t● bring an Act of Parliament to prove our selves Christians but you mistake we did not bring it for that end but to shew you that our Profession is recognized by Act of Parliament as Christian but slighted by you tho' it be a Profession of our Belief In God the Father and in his Son Jesus Christ and in the Holy Spirit one God blessed for evermore and withal acknowledging the holy Scriptures of the Old and New Testament to be given by Divine Inspiration But tho' this has the Approbation of Parliament and Sanction of Law for our Exemption or Liberty of Conscience from certain Penal Laws yet you are not pleased with it no more than with our Liberty You flatteringly yet jeeringly say of the Parliament viz. For with all respect possible to that August Assembly there are other things which they can't do besides making a Man a Woman You might have been more mannerly towards that Assembly however than thus to Cant or Carp at their Proceedings in the said Act and Confession in it against which you can also confidently make your Exception viz. There is not a word in 't asserting the Trinity of Persons nor of the Scriptures being the Word of God or Compleat Rule of Faith and Manners It seems the Parliament wanted you to dictate to them Here is not a word of asserting the Trinity of Persons say you and what then is theirs defective therefore No. Therein it appears the Parliament was far more ingenuous than your selves they did not impose upon us an unscriptural Profession but were content with one in Scripture-terms which you are not but rather striving about words even when the thing you intend is granted in Scripture-phrase This your Affront to the Parliament does not bespeak your Humility no more than your Turbulent Work of scandalously Libellizing and Branding peaceable Subjects even a whole Body of Christian People with being Blasphemers Hereticks c. to make division among the People as if nothing less than Persecution would satiate your Envy And seeing your Faith stands so much in Words and Terms we would ask you what Rule you have in the holy Scriptures for the words Trinity of Persons or had you them not rather from your Mother-Church and if so then the Scripture is not the Rule of your Faith therein but the Church And then how esteem you the Scriptures the compleat Rule of your Faith You seem to ask pardon for your accusation about the Soul 's sleeping after Death but then instead of true Repentance you add two gross Falshoods to it viz. That we hold after Death no Soul no Resurrection Also your gross lying story against John Whitehead about his monstrous Bigness you endeavour to extenuate by telling us That the extravagant pleasantness of the Relation i. e. of that unlucky Story as you call it tempted you beyond your Design But this will not excuse your blind Credulity of a lying Story nor your malicious Confidence in divulging it to the Nation which you greatly abuse with these your Libels And you have many more lying Stories against us in general to retract particularly 1. That the Quakers use to say that there St. Paul had not the Spirit viz. in saying God is my witness Rom. 1. 9. God knoweth that I lye not 2 Cor. 11. 31 c. as in your Merc. June 7. 2. And that the Quakers Worship each other Pray to Man Worship Man c. 3. And that they deny the distinct Existence of the Soul after Death 4. And that they hold it s intirely absorpt in God and to lose its Individuation 5. And that they rest on their own Merits Merc. June 14. With many more notorious and known Falshoods and lying Stories and Defarnations cast upon us in your Accusations and Charges both in this your Mercury of June 14. and the other two preceeding already answer'd by us for which we say The Lord rebuke you and grant you Repentance and Forgiveness POSTSCRIPT NOW you our obscure Adversaries or Athenian Mercury Writers We whose Names are under-written do fairly Propose to you that it may appear to the World that we are not ashamed of our Christian Principles and Profession nor affraid to stand by and defend them against your Perversions Oppositions and Clamorous Reproaches to own what you have writ or may write against us by subscribing your real Names to the same and not lye lurking in obscurity and smiting in the dark if you dare own and stand by all you write against us or intend it to be of any credit that we may know where to find you and more readily shew you your Mistakes And as persons well known in and about this City we hereunto subscribe our Names Charles Bathurst Iohn Edridge William Meade Theodor Eccleston William Ingram William Crouch George Whitehea● Walter Lenthal Thomas Barker LONDON Printed for Thomas Northcott in George-yard in Lombard-street 1692.