taught his holy Prophets and seruants to vtter in their prayers and that this is the reason why there be so many prayers prescribed in the booke of the Psalmes and in other bookes of the Scriptures that whatsoeuer thing befall a man wherein he is in the feruent affection of his heart to pray vnto the Lord if he haue in memorie the spéeches which holy men in such distresse vttered it is a great help vnto him if not he may help his memory with a booke To this you reply that touching the vse of sentences and phrases of scripture you could easily consent but that ye perceiue I would not agrée with ye in certaine points the first that this is required only at the hands of Gods children with promise to be heard and accepted I wonder with what eyes ye can sée that I would not agrée with ye in this thing I put ye out of doubt I hold assuredly that none haue promise to be heard and accepted but Gods children though they vse neuer so much the sentences of Scripture in their prayers The first hinderance of your consent is remoued The second is that ye sée I would not agrée with ye that the same spirit doth now teach Gods childrē to pray which taught the Prophets holy men in other ages I professe vnto ye that I hold it a wicked opinion to deny that the same spirit doth nowe teach Gods children to pray which taught the Prophets c. and so the second let is remoued In déede héere you and I dissent that I hold that as our faith is wrought by the word of God so is it nourished and quickned vnto prayer and euery good work by the same and that the holy Ghost hath not only taught matters by the Prophets Apostles but also spéeches and phrases sit for to vtter y e same And you hold that because the same spirit now teacheth to pray which taught the Prophets Apostles that either we may not or we néede not vse their spéeches The third stop remaineth which is that I take it God should be delighted with words and sentences You greatly mistake it and do but cauill for I shewed my minde not that God would regard words sentences but we should be holpen and comforted by them Thus the third and last hinderance is also remoued and now you may consent that in our prayers we may vse the prescript formes sentences and phrases of the word of God To my next wordes where I sayd the reason why there be so many prayers prescribed in the booke of the Psalmes is that whatsoeuer distresse befall a man c. you reply yée thinke I halt greatly that our question being about Idolatrous leiturgies I séeke to shrowd my selfe vnder the vse of Canonicall scripture Indéed this would be a learned question whether idolatrous leiturgies be idolatrie or whether it be not idolatry to pray an idolatrous praier who would looke for so childish a shift you know our question is about the reading of a praier when one prayeth And if it be not idolatry to vse the praiers of the scriptures euen in their prescript forme then all read praier offred to God as a sacrifice is not idolatrie I reason thus it is not idolatry to pray the Lords praier or any other prescript forme deliuered in the Canonicall scriptures therefore it is no idolatry to vse a prescript forme of praier which is framed after the rules of true praier as to aske of God alone through the onely mediation of his sonne and for no matters but such as he hath promised to giue Yée say it is not true doctrine that those Psalmes and Scriptures were written that we should vse in our praiers the words there set downe Your reason is because there be other vses I doo confesse there be other vses but that might yet be a speciall reason why there be so many praiers prescribed Then yée say yée do not disalow the speaking according to the word of God but that we might not affect so much the phrases of spéech as the true féeling of our wants He that hath not the féeling of his wants in praier but affecteth phrases is but an hypocrite But ye are in a vaine opinion if ye thinke the vse of the phrases and sentences of scripture being fitly applied is any hinderance either to the féeling or opening our wants because where skill or memorie faileth I would haue them vse the helpe of a booke I am you feare papistically affected vnto words and sentences I haue already shewed that this is not to affect the words and sentences but the instruction the support and quickning which our faith receiueth by those words sentences And this doctrine is not as you charge it disagréeing from the counsell of the Holy ghost which willeth vs to continue in praier to striue in praier nor contrarie to Dauid which said O my soule c nor to Paul who teacheth that the spirit helpeth our infirmities and maketh request for vs. But your doctrine which saith we must continue in prayer therfore we may not vse such helps the spirit dooth helpe our infirmities and maketh request for vs therefore we may not be holpen by the praiers or by the words of the holy scripture is phantasticall for the Holy ghost doth helpe our infirmities and teach vs to pray by the written word You thinke it were hypocriticall worshipping of God to take helpe by a booke when we know not what to aske If a man know not what to aske he shall be able to vnderstand little by the booke But a man may know what he should aske and yet not so well able to expresse the same without helpe both for memory and feruencie Stinted praiers yée say are as Cushions for idle papists hypocrites and Atheists I graunt that such people doo abuse all the best things shall the godly therefore be debarred from the vse I doo teach that whether a man of himselfe pray without a booke or vpon a booke if he pray not in spirit with faith he dooth but offer the sacrifice of fooles his praier is abhominable Therfore it is but your lauish spéech when ye say I giue libertie to the lame sacrifices on the contrary if a man pray in faith vpon a booke or without a booke it is true praier and such as God heareth God will haue no strange fire put vpon his Altar say you I graunt it is so but praiers framed by the rules of scripture and offered vp in faith are not strange fire Yée wish all men to take héed of this craftie doctrine and I wish all men not to be to hastie in receiuing new phantasticall opinions Your answer vnto those two Psalmes which I noted were giuen as a prescript forme of praier to be vsed of the Church and the forme of blessing prescribed to the Préests to blesse the people withall Num. 6 is more then friuolous For touching the first which is 92 appointed for the
Brownists of necessitie if your spéeches be weighed séeing all Churches haue and doo things which you affirme to be most detestable idolatry but let the matter come into question to be debated among the Churches and you will be found Anabaptists for imagining such a Christian libertie and fréedome in the Church that nothing is to be receyued which is imposed by commaundement Then ye say that it breaketh our libertie S. Paul proueth most plainely to the Galathians and Colossians I pray ye then that we may sée such plaine proofe which as yet none but your selues can espy note the sentences that will prooue the matter You take it there is no warrant to set foorth any prescript forme of prayer because Christ hath prescribed a forme Ye thinke I might more safely reason thus Christ hath prescribed a forme of prayer therefore neyther Pope Byshop or Prelate ought to impose any other vpon Gods children vntill they can shewe some warrant from Gods word so to do I am fully of your minde that none ought to impose any other forme vntill they can shewe warrant from Gods word But nowe marke how the Argument will followe Moyses the Prophets and our Lord Iesus gaue prescript formes of prayer and praysing God to be vsed by the Church therefore the reading of a prescript forme of prayer when one prayeth or offreth vp the sacrifice of prayse to God doth not change the worke of the Spirit into an idoll nor is not a breaking Christian libertie nor idolatrie for the holie Scripture is farre from appointing any idolatrous thing Then I reason further that if the Prophets and our Sauiour gaue prescript formes to be vsed the Church may take order to sée them vsed And from hence it doth followe that the Church may impose prescript forme of godlie prayers which are framed aright If any thinke this a strange consequence let them consider that the Lords prayer in generall conteyneth in it matter touching the substance and summe of all prayers which haue béene made or are to be made aright The Psalmes and other prayers in the Scriptures doo expresse particulars with sundrie sentences and phrases most fitte to expresse the same Nowe the Church hath power and authoritie not onely to expound these prayers but also to applye them vnto euerie seuerall vse and necessitye This I adde withall that the Church hath no authoritye to bring in any one thing in prayer which is not conteyned in those prayers of Gods word but when the prayers be composed and framed of nothing but the doctrine of the Scriptures and after the rules of true prayer nothing is brought in which God hath not commaunded Lay aside therefore all your shiftes touching Apocrypha mens writings and inequalitie with Canonicall Scriptures and bring your Arguments against the prescript forme and the reading to prooue that they make a prayer holie in it selfe to become abhominable and contrarie vnto spirituall prayer That yee say our Sauiour neuer vsed the words of the Lords prayer when he prayed neyther commaunded his Disciples to say ouer these words neyther doo we reade that the Apostles did euer vse or enforced others to vse certayne words c. ye speake vntruly for the Disciples desired him to teach them to pray as Iohn taught his disciples to pray and he commaundeth when yée pray say thus Our Father which art in heauen hallowed be thy name c. Luke 11. and S. Mathew an Apostle with S. Luke the Euangelist hath deliuered the same to the whole Church if we reade not any where that they did vse the Lords prayer or commaunded others to vse it Will ye reason thus we do not reade that the Apostles or the Church in their time did baptize Infants therefore Infants were not baptized or will ye reason thus we neuer read that the Apostles did pray eyther before or after they preached therefore they did not your argument is the very same with these two former yet from hence ye will néeds conclude y t we will impose vpon whole Churches certaine words euen our own words stinting the spirit of God I haue alreadie shewed that the Church hath not authoritie to bring any forme of prayer into the assemblies but such as is agréeable to the rules appointed for prayer by the word of God And where ye call it a stinting of the Spirit I aunswere that the Spirit of God is not stinted but some men are furthered by prescript formes their infirmities requiring such an eye as I haue shewed before Argum. 4. Because true prayer must be of faith vttered with heart and liuely voyce it is presumptuous ignorance to bring a booke to speake for vs c. Argum. 5. To worship the true God after an other manner then he hath taught is Idolatrie But he hath commaunded vs to come vnto him heauie laden with contrite hearts c. How dare we then bring a dead letter vnto God to stand reading of the same in stead of faithfull petitions quenching the spirit Argum. 6. We must striue in prayer with continuance c. therefore not vpon a booke These thrée I ioyned together as hauing no waight Ye say I answere by playne contradiction without Scripture or proofe In déede you quote Scripture to prooue those things which are not doubted of as that true prayer must be of faith vttered with hart that to worship God after an other manner then he hath taught is idolatrie that we must striue in prayer with continuance But what scripture do ye bring to prooue that it is presumptuous ignorance to vse the help of a booke that those which reade vpon a booke come not with faith and contrite hearts c. but stand reading a dead letter which quencheth the Spirit and that a booke is no helpe for continuance in prayer what Scripture I say bring yee to prooue any of these is not my bare denyall as good as your bare affirmation and in this farre better that I haue before proued the vse of reading by y e word of God Dauid say you would prayse the Lord with hart and doyce therefore not vpon a booke S. Paule would pray with the spirit and with vnderstanding therefore not vpon a booke Dauid and Paule had not so much néed of the booke as other men But whē they will other to sing prayses to God as in Psalmes Himnes and spirituall songs did they not send them to the booke or to the prescript formes wherein others might praise God together with them although they binde not men alwaies to the booke Then yée adde a reason why praier read cannot be true praier which is that in reading we fetch the matter from the booke which mooueth the heart In true praier we fetch the matter from the heart which causeth the mouth to speake as I beléeued and therefore I spake This is a most ridiculous vanitie for tell me this when we bring foorth in true praier matter from the heart which causeth the mouth to speake
blasphemous collects which we vse in the Sacrament and all the hereticall collects of the booke doo trouble yée very sore and weary yée to repeat But if it pleased God I would ye were as weary of lying and slaundering as ye should be in séeking in all the collects of the booke if yée were bound to séeke and to finde I will not say some faultes séeing all things framed by the best men may haue imperfections and faults but some blasphemies or heresies If yée haue any regard at all what ye say gather your wits together consider what is blasphemie and what is heresie and then note the collect where it is and what it is There shall neuer any man be able to prooue that the Church of England dooth tollerate much lesse defend either blasphemie or heresie Yet you as if your words were true as the Gospell clap your wings and crowe saying but this candle may not be lighted least the people should sée into the abhominabl◠ingredients which you their Antichristian ministers doo giue them or rather sell them in the whore of Babilons cuppe All this is but your foule toong which is no way so eloquent as in rowling out slaunderous accusation of blasphemies heresies and abhominations with such like Moreouer whereas the case standeth thus in the church of England that there is controuersie about the Booke and that one part dooth approoue all things in the same as good and alowable or at least as tollerable the other condemne certaine things as corruptions and such as néede reformation I would know how ye could abandon all the assemblyes to this ye make a double answer first that vsing a part they do homage to the whole This is a foolish answer void of all reason for can we not praise the good things in a man but we shall allowe his faultes and imperfections Your second answer is this Neither can the cunningest of ye all make the best part of it other then a péece of Swines flesh an abhomination to the Lord. Who could imagin that such a frensie might take hold of any that in mad furie they should not spare after a sort to strike at God and to blaspheme that which is most holy for ye knowe right well that there is in the booke of Common Prayer much of the sacred Canonicall Scripture there is the Lords prayer the tenne Commaundements with many other partes and sentences there be the articles of the Christian faith are all these become Swines flesh an abhomination to the Lorde Let not simple men wonder that ye are bold to proclaime all the Ministers of the Gospell within this land to be the marked seruants of Antichrist when ye dare presume to set your stincking brand of pitch vpon the most holy things of God Ye will héere cry out of iniurie and say that ye estéeme all those parcels of the sacred Canonicall Scriptures in thēselues to be holy and pure What is it then which turneth them into Swines flesh and maketh them an abhomination to the Lord is it because they be bound together and make one booke with the hereticall Collects then take you héede least being in prison and fettred with heretikes ye be turned also into Heretikes If ye say it is our abuse which turneth so holy things into Swines flesh I aunswere that the abuse of holy things is abhominable but the things themselues remaine vndefiled and ye must remember that we deale touching the partes of the booke but abuse is no part thereof When ye say the best part thereof is no other then a péece of Swines flesh it can not be transferred from the partes vnto the abuses If it were graunted vnto ye which yet is to be denied as most fantasticall that all read prayer offred vp vnto God as a sacrifice is Idolatrie neuerthelesse your saying is wicked and blasphemous seeing that the reading is not any part of the booke neither doth it peruert or defile the things themselues which are read Thus your first accusation that we worship the true God after a false manner is with false sclaunder and furious outrage of spéech crying out of Idolatrie blasphemies and abhominations when as ye can shewe no one ground of the holy Religion and worship of God which is not holden sound and entire among vs only ye rippe vp corruptions and spots in Ceremonies orders and circumstances which touch not the foundation but are such as men may erre in and yet be Gods déere children and true woorshippers The Brow Iohn 4. 23. 24. God is a Spirit and must be worshipped in spirit and truth The reasons why wee disalow of read prayer in stead of spirituall prayers that though they may be read for meditation as any other mens writs yet is it Idolatry to offer vp to God such manner of sacrifices eyther priuately or in publique assemblyes 1 No apocripha must be brought into the publique assemblyes for there only the liuely voyce of Gods owne graces of the word and the spirit must be heard in the publique assemblyes And more lawfull is it to vse Homelyes then reade prayers vnto God 2 To do any thing in the worship of God without the testimonie of his word is sinne but there is no ground in the Scripture for such manner of praying as hauing no witnesse of the word whether God be pleased with them or no. 3 Admitte that it were a thing indifferent as we call it for the forme of prayer which is but a mockery to call reading in stead of spirituall calling on God to be but altering the forme or chaunging the manner whereas in deede it is changing the worke of the Spirit into an Image or Idoll Yet is it a bondage and breaking of that libertie which Christ hath purchased for vs and therefore most detestable 4 Because true prayer must be of faith and knowledge vttered with the hart and liuely voyce vnto God I am perswaded it is presumptuous ignorance to bring a booke to speake for vs such things as we could not otherwise vtter in Gods sight 5 To worship the true God after another manner then he hath taught is Idolatry but he hath commaunded vs to come vnto him being heauy loden with contrite hearts yea to cry out vnto him in the griefe of our soule yea and as S. Paule sayth The Spirit helpeth our infirmities with groning and sighing that can not be expressed and how dare we then being a dead tree vnto God to stand reading of the same in stead of faithfull petitions quenching the Spirit 6 We must striue in prayer with continuing with feruency without wauering which we can not doo vppon a booke 7 We must call vppon God in prayer at all times as the necessities of the time requireth not making a babling of many things whereof we haue not any present necessitie but stinted seruice cannot be so applyed so it is but a babling of vaine repetitions 8 All the deuises of Antichrist though it were otherwise lawfull not
being necessary ought to be abhorred of true Christians especially such reliques as maintaine superstition but to reade other mens bookes to God in stead of true prayers and stinted seruice were deuised by Antichrist and maintaine superstition and an Idoll Ministerie therefore ought to be disallowed The prayers and worship of such Ministers and people as stand vnder a false gouerment are not acceptable nor haue any promise in Gods sight not only because they aske amisse but because they keepe not his commaundements G. G. Read prayer is one chiefe thing for which yee condemne our worship as Idolatrous and most detestable and for that cause to be annexed vnto this first accusation God is a Spirit and must be worshipped in spirit and in truth The Brow THE Scripture doth most briefely and pithily seuer all fantasticall deuises of man from the pure and sincere worship of God prescribed in his Word For seeing all flesh is grasse and the wisedome thereof foolishnes with God it must needes follow that mē earthly minded should please themselues in such pretended religion as agreeth nothing with the diuine nature of God It is needfull then in the worship of God that we thus alwayes consider with our selues we haue to do with God himselfe and not with men who is so farre differing from vs that those things which are most easy and pleasing vnto vs is a wearisomnes and abhominable sacrifice in his sight and although God dwelleth in the heauens in his diuinitie incomprehensible yet haue we a perfect rule whereby we know what is agreeing to his will namely his written word for that we may be heere taught 1. That all hipocrisy in such things as hee hath commaunded be carefully auoyded 2. That wee attempt not to do any thing in his worship whereof we haue not speciall warrant from his word of which sort we take all manner of stinted prayers offered vp as a worshipping of God disagreeing from the nature of God which seeth in secret and so agreeth with our fleshly nature that we can not pray as we ought so we seeke to help our selues with such a broken staffe wearying our selues with our owne deuises without any promise to receyue blessing thereby And therefore where you affirme that a man may pray in spirit and truth with sighes and grones proceeding from faith when prayer is read that is not true for if their sighes came from faith it would minister matter and prayer without a booke yea no doubt a troubled mind is the penne of a readie writer and to worship God in spirit is when the inward faith of the heart bringeth forth true inuocation and it is then in truth when simply it agreeth with Gods word But you would teach men in stead of powring forth their harts to help themselues vpon a booke yea to fetch their cause of sorrowing sighing from an other mans writing euen in the time of their begging at Gods hand We graunt that prayers conceaued without faith ar not acceptable yet may the same be called spirituall because it is the gift of the Spirit though not sanctified in him that so hipocritically mocketh with God But what maketh this to our question of stinted read prayers in Gods worship But say you to make read prayers only to serue for meditation is false doctrine wherein me thinke you offer great iniurie for we affyrmed that it had such vse as other of mēs writings haue But it seemeth you make little cōscience to slander vs and heere you fall into an error your selfe affirming and going about to proue that reading of prayers is not for meditation at all the proofe you bring is that Christ said not to his disciples whē ye meditate say thus Our Father but when you pray say thus c. Where beside that you make no difference between your owne Liturgies the holy word of God which is not of any priuate interpretation Besides this I say you seeme to proue that the Lords prayer all other prayers in the Canonicall Scripture serue not at all for meditation Well you haue hereby made the matter apparant that read prayers vpon a booke are as acceptable as faithfull prayers conceiued by the spirit vttered with vnderstanding You say that prayers read or conceiued being void of faith is but vaine babling we say the same but what of this forsooth you cannot see by what censure it can be called Idolatry If false worship cannot be called Idolatry let the first and second Commaundements be witnesses so that it is not our pennes but the penne of Gods own finger that hath iudged all deuises of man hipocriticall worship of Idolatry And although all the breaches of the first Table were not Idolatry yet you know that to worship our own deuises is Idolatry Is not prayer a speciall part of the first Commaundement and our Sauiour Christ comprehendeth all the foure first Commandements in this that we loue God aboue all the transferring of any part whereof from God must needs be idolatry But say you if we do thus hold withall that no idolator can be saued thē surely are all lost c. This is countrey diuinity if the Salt haue lost his sauour what should be sesoned therwith we hold that no idolator cā be saued without true repentance renouncing their sinne so far as God shall shew it thē yea craue with Dauid for pardon for their hidden secret sins And doo you thinke any man liuing is void of idolatry either inwardly or outwardly so long as we liue or that we can keep any one cōmandement in perfection The Lord therfore giue vs repentance for in some things we sin all Methinks this should not be M. Giffords language to be so ignorant in the principles of religion if you haue waighed our arguments no better then your preface it shall be greeuous to me to make any aunswer To condemne and ouerthrow read prayer yée bring as the ground or foundation of all your matter this sentence God is a spirit and to be worshipped in spirit Iohn 5. This scripture indéed is cléere and strong to cut downe all carnall worship as disagréeing from the nature of God And if any doo maintaine that the very bodily action of reading prayer is the worship of God it may fitly be alledged against them But to apply it in that manner which you doo against red praier is friuolous vnlesse as I say yée could prooue that a man cannot pray by the spirit of God with sighes and grones procéeding from faith when the praier is read vpō the booke or vttered after a prescript forme To this you reply with diuers arguments The first is that if the sighes and grones were of faith it would minister matter of praier without a booke This reason by a connection is drawne from and dependeth wholy vpon the force and effect of faith to minister matter of prayer It is to be framed thus If the prayer with sighes
Sabaoth yée graunt it was at their méeting to magnifie the praises of God many other Psalmes But yée demaund what this maketh for stinted leiturgies papisticall and erronious imposed c. I say it maketh nothing at all for that which is papisticall and erronious But it prooueth that all read praier is not idolatrie and that it is no stinting of the spirit to vse a prescript forme of praier These fantasies of yours are first confuted thereby Then next I argue thus If I may vse a whole praier of the scripture and no idolatrie then a praier that is composed by the rules of the scriptures may be vsed and no idolatrie You deny that the argument drawne from the vse of the Psalmes dooth follow because praiers composed by men are not equall to the Canonicall scripture and so shut out all praiers if yée marke well what yée say that are framed by the Preacher For let them be holy and good yet yée may not set them as equall with the Canonicall scriptures Againe yée deny the argument by affirming that singing of Psalmes was no part of praier but onely for instruction and meditation ye take vpon ye to prooue this a little after and when I come to that ye shall haue answer The Psalm 102. ye say was not a praier of the Church because it is said O Lord heare my prayer and not O Lord heare our prayer a poore shift when vsually the church speaketh of her selfe in the singular number Touching the blessing ye say that forme of words was not to tie them to vse those words but after that manner which is manifestly false Touching the orders of singers appointed by Dauid I alledged it to no such end as you séeme to drawe it vnto But that in singing the Psalmes they did read them vpon the booke Héer now ye do not onely deny that singing of psalmes was any part of praier but also ye will prooue it by the testimony of S. Paul to the Ephesians and to the Collofs where he exhorteth thē to speake vnto themselues in psalmes hymnes and spirituall songs It is a foule audacitie contrary to the manifest word of truth to affirme that the Psalmes were not sunge to God séeing that not onely the speeches be directed in a multitude of places vnto him but also the Holy-ghost doth call vpon men in this wise Sing vnto God sing a new song vnto him sing praises vnto the Lorde But beside this you go further for in both places by you cited ye leaue out the latter part of the sentence which is that they should sing vnto the Lorde with grace in their hearts Let the reader peruse the places and iudge what kinde of tricke this is It is most cléere that they did reade the Psalmes vpon the booke when they did sing them It is also out of controuersie that they did sing them to the Lord vnlesse we will deny the flat word of the Holy-ghost and also affirme that albeit the spéech be directed to God yet they did not in singing speake vnto him It cannot be denied but that many of the Psalmes be full of petitions Also praise is a part of prayer and a spirituall sacrifice this was offered vp to God in reading vpon the booke for it is saide Sing praises to the Lorde therefore I conclude that read prayer hath warrant by the word and the reading dooth not make it idolatrie or contrarie to spirituall praier Héere yée complaine againe that this argument dooth not follow because praiers composed by men are not to be matched with the Canonicall scriptures I haue answered this poore stale shift already that the praiers composed by men are no further lawfull then they be framed by the rules of Gods word for prayer Thus haue I not as you charge me laid aside the question to make new questions but haue disprooued that your olde question by shewing that reading the praier which is godly dooth not make it contrary vnto spirituall praier nor idolatry Argu. 3. We may not in the worship of God receiue any tradition which dooth bring our liberty into bondage Read Prayer vpon commaundement in the assemblies is a tradition that dooth bring our libertye into bondage Therefore read prayer c. To the assumption of this argument I answered at the first which I particularly rehearsed how can yée then with any shew of truth say my words import a deniall of the Antecedents assumption and all My words are these The third argument saith that the forme of praier is a bondage and breaking our libertie with c. The prooues which I bring do onely ouerthrow the assumption for I did and doo acknowledge the proposition which you say my words import a deniall of I would wish yée to vse more simplicitie I say it is vngodlye and néere vnto blasphemy to affirme that prescript forme of prayer is a tradition bringing our libertie into bondage and a changing the worke of the spirit into an idoll My reason was and is that the Lord by Moyses prescribed a forme of blessing which the Préests should vse Nomb. 6. The Prophets as in the Psalmes prescribed many formes of prayses and prayers to be vsed of the Church Our Sauiour Iesus Christ prescribed a forme and sayd when yée pray say Our Father c. If the verie reading or vsing the prescript forme commaunded were a bondage breaking Christian libertie or a changing the worke of the Spirit into an idoll then the Lord God Moyses the Prophets and our Sauiour Christ are charged with a great fault Your reply is with some roughnesse of spéech which I omitte because it is but your fashion But for proofe that read prayer is mans inuention and thrust vpon the Church by constraint ye say England knoweth by wofull experience There hath béene I graunt in the Church of England variance about some matters to be read which are commaunded in the Leiturgie but not about the commaunding a prescript forme of prayer to be vsed for therein our Church doth agrée with all godly Churches that a prescript forme of publike prayers is conuenient yea the reformed Churches haue and do practise the same Héere therefore I would wishe the Reader to obserue that you Brownists doe not only condemne the Church of England but all the reformed Churches whatsoeuer and can be none other but méere Donatists For héere in this your third argument ye affirme that prescript forme of prayer commaunded is the changing the worke of the spirit into an idoll a tradition breaking Christian libertie and therefore most detestable In your fift Argument ye say it is a dead letter which doth quench the spirit But all reformed Churches doo by commaundement receyue and vse prescript forme of prayers Consider then what sentence yee haue giuen against all the visible Churches of our time and of former ages for it will come to passe that as the Donatists tooke themselues to be the only true Church in earth so must you
from the booke which also dooth instruct me the like may be said when the congregation dooth pray with their pastor they fetch not the cause of their sighing from him but are stirred vp by him Your next words stand thus The reasons why we disalow of read prayers in steed of spiritual prayers that though they may be read for meditation as any other mens writs yet is it Idolatrie to offer vp to God such manner of sacrifices either priuately or in the publike assemblies Yée are very angrie that I termed your reasons by which yée oppose read praier vnto spirituall praier spirituall fantasies But take you héed that they grow not to be worse Yée are also gréeued that I call them your stuffe but how good stuffe it is let the pure word try I said it is false doctrine to make read prayer serue only for meditation My proofe was this that Christ saith not when ye meditate but when ye pray say thus Our Father which art in heauen and héere ye fling about as if ye had Béez For first ye exclaime that I make smal conscience to sclaunder ye because I said ye make read prayer serue only for meditation which is false doctrine Meditation as I take it comprehendeth all that is done in studying and musing when one readeth the praying is another If ye can shew a third vse when one readeth prayer I will confesse an error otherwise though ye haue not expressed the word only yet ye haue in effect vttered so much when ye say read prayer is not to be prayed Secondly ye charge me to deny that read prayer serueth for meditation at all which is in deede false doctrine because I said Christ saith not when ye meditate but when ye pray say thus Our Father which art c. Do I not say truly that Christ saith not when ye meditate but when yée pray say thus Our Father which art c. How can you then but like Spiders sucke that poyson from thence Thirdly ye accuse me that I make no difference betwéene our owne Leiturgies and the Canonicall Scripture which is a most friuolous cauill séeing our question is about reading of prayer whether it be Canonicall Scripture or framed from thence according to the rules of godly prayer Thus haue ye answered nothing at all vnto that commaundement which I alleaged giuen by our Sauiour to vse that prescript forme of prayer but only by shift and cauill Then ye goe about to proue that euery sinne against the first Table of the Lawe is Idolatry but with no shewe of reason And heere ye scoffe because I sayd if euery sinne that is against the first Table be Idolatry who shall be saued and ye demaund who is frée from Idolatry an absurd spéech for the Scripture doth not call the godly either murtherers théeues idolaters or such like I thought we had not reasoned about the reliques of sin which remaine in the best so long as they liue héere but of such grosse idolatry as a Church is to be condemned and forsaken which is defiled therewith But séeing ye confesse that all men be idolaters that is touching the remnants of sinne it must néedes followe that there is no Church frée from all spottes for if all the partes and members be defyled the whole can not be cleane This doth ouerthrowe all the arguments which yée bring to condemne the Church of England which haue no force vnlesse yée will maintaine a perfection for if a Church and euery member in it can not but of necessitie be spotted and defyled with some remnants of idolatrie euen by your owne confession then can ye not reason thus this is a fault it is idolatrie therefore this or that assemblie which is spotted is no true Church but to be forsaken But ye must stand to prooue that the idolatrie is so grosse that it destroyeth the faith ouerthroweth Gods true worship and so destroyeth the verie life béeing of a Church Thus much about your preface now follow your argumēts No apocrypha is to be brought into the publike assemblyes All read prayer is apocrypha Therefore no read prayer is to be brought into the publike assemblyes In my first answere I did deale only with the assumption or second part of this Argument affirming that I could not sée how it can be proued and shewing sundry absurdities that would follow as namely that a prayer of the Canonicall Scripture being read when one prayeth should become apocrypha c. But you replyed that those absurdities grow from my mistaking your words and I sawe it was so for our question being about the reading of prayer and not about the matter it selfe I tooke it that although yee hold the Lords prayer and other prayers in the holy Scripture to be Canonicall in themselues yet being read to become apocrypha because ye say all read prayer is apocrypha and did not expresse it with this restraint all read prayer framed by men is apocrypha I must now take the Argument as you say your meaning is and deale with both the parts thereof First then touching the proposition no apocrypha is to be brought into the publike assemblies what can be more false Apocrypha is opposed vnto Canonicall if nothing may be brought into the Church but the Canonicall Scriptures then the Sermons and prayers of the pastors and teachers are to be banished I knowe your meaning is not at all to exclude these although your words taking apocrypha as it is in vse among vs do in déede shut them foorth and not only them but any paraphrase vpon the Scripture as the Psalmes in Metre Now to your assumption which saith all read prayer is apocrypha first it is false touching the Psalmes and the Lords prayer which be Canonicall when they be prayed Then further I sée no fitnesse in applying the name apocrypha vnto our spéech to God though it be vsed for that which is not his vndoubted word to vs. For by what name opposite to apocrypha will ye call those prayers which ye do allow ye will not call them Canonicall this Argument therfore is false and friuolous Argum. 2. We must do nothing in the worship of God without warrant of his word Read prayers haue no warrant of his word Therfore read prayers are not to be vsed in the worship of God To this I answer at the first that it is great audacitie to affirme that there is no warrant of the word for read prayer whē there be sundry testimonies to warrant the same vnlesse ye will make a difference betwéene that which a man readeth vpon the booke that which he hath learned out of the booke Further I said I do not remember that euer I haue read in the holy Scriptures that God commandeth the prayer shall be read vpon the booke for he commendeth this diligēce in all his people that they should throughly learne to vnderstand not only the matters but also the sentences and phrases which his spirit