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A01041 A defence of the lavvful calling of the ministers of reformed churches, against the cavillations of Romanists Whereto is subioined, an epistle to a recusant, for clearing and maintaining some points of the former treatise of defence, challenged by a Roman Elymas Bar-Iesus-it. With a short discovery of the adversarie his dottage in his impertinent and rediculously deceitfull demands. By Patrik Forbes, of Coirse. Forbes, Patrick, 1564-1635. 1614 (1614) STC 11146; ESTC S114324 93,515 180

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Church why doe our adversaries make no end of bitter contention against vs We have indeed great sure promises that the gates of hell shall not prevaile against his Church but that the ordinarie Ministers shall alwayes and all in common holde the trueth not one syllable yea contrarie we have not only manie and serious warnings of false prophetes to arise in the bowells of the church in sheepes clothing but also most clearlie foretold that such an Apostasie should come whereby Antichrist in al effectual deceyt should even sit and beare rule in the Temple of God If they will saye that the Church of Israel had not such promises of continuall presence and preservation of truth as the Christian Church hath It is a treacherous sophisme For they had also sure promises of continuall presence and preservation of truth according to the measure dispensed albeit not of so great measure of presence and light And as for that point whereof our adversaries glorie most and wherein now at last they are faine to place all defence namelie the prerogative of places and persons the Church of Israell had much more for them in so ample and many promises made of Ierusalem And to the house of Levie and familie of Aaron where as the Church vnder the Gospell in which neither at Ierusalem nor in any mountaine but every-where and of all men God is to bee worshipped in spirit and truth albeit having great sure promises of presence and preservation yet of tying God or his truth to any places or persons in all Scripture shee hath not so much as any shew of a warrant which if the holy Ghost had minded hee might with much lesse ado have reduced those many grave and earnest warnings given both by Christ in the dayes of his fleshe and by his Apostles thereafter of the perill of false prophetes and those carefull instructions of notes how to discerne and avoid them to a short and sure compende against all fraude bidding the Church but holde whatsoever the Bishop of Rome did holde for that hee forsooth could not erre If our adversaries yet oppone that howsoever the Church vnder the Law did sometime fall away all in common and that albeit the Christian Church should also in like manner yet the truth of God his promises should not therefore faile but that no such thing hath befallen the Christian Church or could befall her in respect of the great measure of light and cleare dispensation by the Gospell It is many wayes both foolish and impertinentlie alleadged for first it is a plaine taking of that which is in question Next as the state of our question is whither possiblie the Church may erre communiter tota and God his promise yet abyde true to oppone that shee hath not erred is alse ridiculous as if in disputation de iure one should answer de facto If God his promise still may consist albeit shee did so erre wee have the point wee pleade for And whither shee hath erred or not they must of necessitie come with vs to trye by such rules of examination as wee only labour to reduce them to and they in an evill conscience alwayes flee onely crying against vs The Tēple of the Lord The Temple of the Lord And the Church can not erre Thirdlie this their presumption of the ones possible and easie falling away and of the others assured standing in truth grounded vpon the lesse and greater measure of light it sheweth their foolishnes in divine matters For as whatsoever measure of light dispensed is God his free benefite so is our either imbracing or abyding therein his only gift Who as hee iustlie will give over presumptuous and secure men to groape even at noone day so is hee faithfull and wil not suffer his owne to bee tempted above that they are able but will give the issue with the tentation Wee have indeed to glorifie God and even to glorie in him for the huge measure of light and gracefull dispensation by the Gospell but so farre ought men to have bene from vaine boasting thereof or carnall and secure relying thervpon as in all watchfulnes and godly care they should have remembred with all that accordingly Satan was to advaunce the mysterie of iniquitie by all effectual working with all power signes and lying wonders and in all deceaveablenes of vnrighteousnes among them that perish because they receaved not the love of the truth that they might be saved and therefore God should send them strong delusion c. for Sathan as a craftie warriour and subtill enemie reserved and framed his last cunning force and maner of working according as he did see that for deceaving was requisite and accordinglie by God his wise permission iust iudgement obtained a throne even in the temple of God And as in the dealing of God it is not to be esteemed strange that he so farre gave over the world to the efficacie of errour whereby he iustlie punished the contempt of his truth and clearlie foretold the case so is it nothing derogatorie either to his goodnes and truth of his promises made to his Church or to his power of performance as our adversaries because the Lord whom they would make a varlet to their lustes hath iustlie cast dunge vpon their faces therefore by a doting dilemma would inforce vpon vs this blasphemie as a necessarie consec●arie of our doctrine For that if the Church have erred it must have beene that either GOD would not or then that hee could not keepe his promise to her But it is the propertie of their king Abaddon to blaspheme the name of God his Tabernacle and them that dwell in heaven Wee both acknowledge his goodnes and praise his truth and power and confesse that by this course of dealing they are more highlie manifested then if the gates of hell and smoake of the bottomles pit had never assailed the Church Or if the weaknes of men had never appeared to the praise both of his goodnes and power For as his incomprehensible goodnes and constant truth are herein magnified that though all men be liers yet hee abydeth true and the infidelitie of men can not make his promise of none effect so did his infinite power exceedinglie extoll the selfe in this that as hee bringeth light out of darknes and maketh his light to shine in darknes as hee bringeth life out of death and preserveth the children of death so in the middest of Antichrist his vsurpation and such absolute domination in the holy Citie and Court of the Temple the visible Church as no possible meanes appeared of intertaining light yet hee not only all the while preserved two candlestickes and two olives true witnesses and Ministers of light and grace but also when spyed out by Antichrist they were cruellie murthered and in his and his sectatours estimation vtterlie vndone hee revived them in furder vigour to his and their terrour That while all the earth
extraordinarie calling wee have to worke miracles Who of any sound mynd can not but extreamlie wonder how by so manifold and childishe a cavillation men affecting the opinion of learning and holynes should so evidentlie make themselves ridiculous and bewray openlie an evill conscience For first as I have already cleared for our Churches in common they are impudent to deny our ordinarie vocation But to let this passe with them if my doctrine proove it selfe to bee the truth what place have such men as it convinced to bee ●yers to except against my vocation which justifieth it selfe sufficientlie even by that fame Doe men gather grapes of thornes or fygges of thistles And if necessitie were of miracles what greater can bee then this that The stone even reiected of the builders is yet made the head of the corner Which by the Lord his owne Testimony is marveilous in our eies and yet it is the Lod his doing If our doctrine bee truth their mouthes are stopped who directlie impugne it and if it bee false what foolishnes is it to crave a warrant of our callings as if all the miracles which ever were wrought could warrant a man to teach lyes Besides all this that miracles are alwayes requisite for iustifying an extraordinarie callinge it is falslie assumed For of Iohne Baptist whose callinge Christ his answer to the Priestes prooverh to have beene extraordinarie it is witnessed that hee wrought no miracles as neither did divers Prophets before him And whatsoever was then either vsed or requisit while that manner of dispensation had place yet now when the whole Counsell of GOD is reveiled and that manner of dispensation altered miracles in these our tymes without any more were even enough wherefore to mistrust the worker For that howsoever at the beginning of the Gospell in so strange and great alterations as were the inbringing of the Gentiles and the abrogation of the legall worshippe which was of GOD his owne appointement it was as sayeth Augustin miraculis inchoata begun with miracles yet now the Sonne of man having long agoe come in his kingdome with power and the Sinagogue beeing buried with honour the case in these last tymes varieth so farre as miracles and wonders are the badge of Antichrist who hath come with all effectuall working of Sathan in signes lying wonders and strong delusion So as whosoever now worketh miracles quanto magis mira●ilia confi●emur tanto cautius vitare debemus How much more wonderfull wee confesse them to be wee ought the more warilie to eshew them as sayeth the same Augustin And this diversitie o● dispensation the holy Ghost in goodly and convenient types most fitlie expresseth Chapter 4. and Chapter 15. of the Revelation In the first is put a cleare Christallin Sea with seven burning Lampes apart So to designe the pure word worship according thereto in these first tymes accompanied with the powerfull cooperation of the holy spirit but in such sort as then there was a distinct outward and visible dispensation and donation of the holy spirit by imposition of hands and kything in visible symbols of the holy spirit and divers gifts and miraculous operations In the fifteene Chapter is shewed again that the Sea is cleare as Christall and hath the ioyned operation of the holy spirit but the Sea is mingled with the fyre To shew in the last dispensation for overthrow of Antichrist a puritie of the word and worship the vertue of the spirit ioyned therewith as at first but yet so as no dispensation of the spirit should be but by and with the word as mingled therewith all outward and visible extraordinarie donation of the spirit and miraculous operations now ceassing And verelie an other manner was requisite for bringing in first the Gentiles to the faith and so casting Satan from heaven even that the Gospell should be miraculis inchoata then for overturning his fraudfully reerected throne in the church vnder pretence of the Lambe his hornes and to much different dealing for burying the Synagogue with honour then for thrusting Antichrist to the doore with shame At first the Lord had to procure credit to his Gospell as to his owne sacred will word next again he had by this Gospell so now obtaining as the partie to be detected and overthrowen thereby dare not openly denie the authoritie thereof but to convince the traitour covered vnder false pretences 25. To disproove this power of plaine and prevayling truth and to discredit the argument of our miraculous successe thereby our adversaries yet ryse against vs with two obiections The first is that if successe and wyde obtayning were a note of truth then also or more iustlie might Arrianisme and Mahometisme acclaime the title thereof as wee But these instances are sophisticallie brought against the truth and vs. For albeit wee confesse heresie to bee verie contagious and the word thereof to be fretting as a gangrene through the conveniencie it hath with the vaine humour of man who is naturallie a lyer yet when soever it is put to iust tryall by the truth then can it retaine no strength It is indeed true that truth alwayes prevayleth not for then the mysterie of iniquitie had never attayned to such height but this falleth not through the weaknes of truth but partlie through the vanity of men who falling away frō the love and due regard of truth are in God his iustice given vp to the efficacie of errour Partlie through their vniust furie reiecting and persecuting the truth vntryed wherein yet the great odds betwixt veritie and lyes is wonderfull in that even in the highest degree of prevailing error while Satan hath a throne in the verie temple of God yet even then as in Pergamus the truth still dwelleth and a number keep the name of God even where Satan his throne is and against the terrour of bloodshed Whereas on the other part truth being but admitted to plead for it selfe albeit the holders have little strength as in Philadelphia yet the adversaries are forced to come and worship at their feet But this we maintaine and hold that when ever it pleaseth the Lord to send out his light and truth for leading men to his holy mountaine and that herefie howe stronglie soever grounded is reduced to due examination thereby that then albeit it hath vsurped even the holy citie court of the tempel yet by the true measuring reed it will be clearlie found to be cast out Their argument is a deceitfull falacie by confounding of divers cases and causes of the truth admitted to plead and of the same againe after in God his iustice hid or by mens crueltie and vniust violence debarred from all defence And this is evident in both the alleadged instances For Arianisme albeit having for it great but vnsanctified both learning and eloquence yet was ever ashamed before the truth till by the crueltie and violence of Easterne Emperours in Asia and
Satans throne in it and the vndoubted subversion of their execrable Ilium they cry out a great cry and a bitter That if thus men once depart from the iudgement of the Church what certain warrant can they ever finde to stay on or What guyde can they be sure to follow for finding out of truth So still they cease not to dallie and shameleslie in one sort Wee would not have men to depart from the iudgement of the Church which is the piller and stable seate of truth and without which is neither veritie nor lyfe but howe much we are necessarilie to cleave thereto so much the more carefullie by the right rule of examination to trye and discerne betwixt the Church and the pretending harlot and to this end the Lord hath given vs his word his spirit and in all ages hath recommended them to his owne children as vndoubted guydes in all doubtfull cases so vnder the lawe men are ever exhorted to the lawe the Testimonie David and the Prophets direct al men alwayes thereto they have the Lawe and the Prophets saith Abraham in parables And our Lord for cleare testimonie of himselfe biddeth the Iewes search the scriptures Peter from an other spirit then have our adversaries calleth the word of the Prophets a sure and certaine word and exhorteth to attend thereto And Paul even vpon this that the Church is the house of God the piller and stable seat of trueth and that godlines is a great mysterie groundeth both a reason why hee did write to Timothie and an earnest exhortation to take heed to the reading of the scripturs for that many diverting therefrō and giving themselves to spirits of error and fables should fall from the truth and teach doctrines of Devils We read many warning not to be miscaried with common errors or the authoritie of men yea as I have before touched divers times both Pastors and people in common are taxed for falling away from the word We are exhorted carefullie to proove and try what word men doe offer vnto vs but never in all scripture have we so much as one mine of secure relying vpon the authoritie of ordinarie Pastors without due examination and the iudgement of al sound antiquitie accordeth hereto One of the Fathers saith thus Qui vuls cognoscere quae sit vera ecclesia non cognoscat nisi tautumm●d● per scripturas and sone after Christiani ergo volentes firmitatem accipere doctrina verae ad nullam rem fugiant nisi ad Scripturas ali●qui si ad alia respexerint scandaliz abuntur peribunt non intelligentes qu● sit vera ecclesia per hoc incident in abhominationem desolationis qu● stat in sanctis ecclesi● locis the place is remarkeable in English thus who wil know which is the true church let him not seeke to know it but only by the scriptures c. Christians then willing to receave the stable assurance of true doctrine let them runne to nothing but to the scriptures otherwayes if they look to ought else they shall stumble and perish not vnderstanding which is the true Church and shall fall hereby in the abhomination of desolation which standeth in the holy places of the church This same is yet more plainly shewed in these wordes quum videritis c. that is when ye shall see vngodly heresie which is the armie of Antichrist standing in the holy places of the Church then let them who are in Iudea flee to the mountaines that is they who are of christianitie addresse themselves to the scriptures because when once that heresie hath obtained place in these Churches there can bee no tryall of true christianitie neither any other refuge for christians willing to know the veritie of the faith but the divine and holy Scriptures And the same Chrisostome in the same place Antea multis modis c. before many wayes was shewed which was the Church of Christ but nowe no maner of way but by the Scriptures Thus is cleare not only that the scripture is the sole rule of tryall but that the necessarie reason why only to have recourse thereto is Antichrist his obtaining so farre within the Church as to escape the abhomination of desolation standing therein also wee must runne and runne only to the Scriptures Non enim per alium saieth Ireneus dispositionem salutis n●strae cognovimus quam per eos per quos Evangelium pervenit ad n●● quod quidem tunc praecomaverunt postea ver● per Dei vol●●tatem in scripturis nobis tradiderunt fundamentum columnam fidei nostr● futurum that is for by none other have wee knowne the disposition of our salvation but by these by whom the Gospell hath come vnto vs which then they preached and thereafter by the will of God delivered to vs in the Scriptures to remain in all tymes to come the foundation and piller of our faith The same father in another place speaketh thus Plantatus est enim Ecclesiae Paradisus i● hoc mundo ab omni ergo ligno P●radisi manducabis id est ab omni scriptura dominica c. that is for the Paradise of the Church is planted in this world thou shall eat therefore of every tree of Paradise that is of all the Lord his Scripture And as Ierome sayeth both pleasantly and pertinently When ever the Church looketh to any other warrant egreditur de finibus suis she passeth out of her owne bounds let any man in whom is left any spunk of spirituall sense conferre these sayings of the Fathers with the dealing and doctrine of Rome now labouring ever to divert men from this Paradise of the Scriptures where only is the fruit of lyfe to a barren wildernes without water and Cisternes of their owne digging and thus making millions to fall in that abhomination of desolation which standeth in the holy places of the Church but their soares are seene they shal prevaile no longer 22. They exclame here against vs that thus we pervert all order in God his house making every privat Christian iudge over Pastours and subduing the spirit of the Church to every privat spirit And O how they both please themselves and play themselves in amplifying the absurditie as they think of this point But to calme a little their chear heerein First I aske them is it not a common direction for all Christians to trye spirits and not to believe every spirit Are we not cōmanded to proove al things to hold that which is good Are we not often carefully exhorted to beware of false Prophets While they cannot or dare not though they would gainsay so cleare Scripture they runne to this that the only sure trial is to acquiesce in the iudgement of the Church But shameles men is not this all one thing as if they said the best triall were to ●se no triall at all And what doe they hereby but still assume the question It is