that I deny for on the contrary Conversion presupposeth having light and grace by which and to which men are to be converted So that before a man be converted hee must have Saving grace in order to convert him even as the being healed of a wound presupposeth the plaister or salve but not on the contrary for the application of the plaister presupposeth not the being healed But whereas thou sayest what need is there of his turning when men are in this state already thou misrepresentest us for wee doe not say that all men are in a state of light and grace to be in a state of grace is to stand in grace which the wicked doe not stand in yet this hinders not but that grace is communicated unto them whereby they may come to a state or standing in it while the day of their visitation remains Againe thou undertakest to prove that all men have not sufficient light two wayes first that all men have not the Spirit of God jud 19. to which I answer that there may be a sufficient light in men who may be said after a certaine manner not to have the Spirit as being such vvho though the Spirit be in them to invite call and dravv them unto God yet resist his dravvings and so separate themselves from it so continuing untill the day of Gods visitation unto them come to an end concerning vvhom it is true that then they have not the Spirit so much as to invite and call them unto God or to give unto them the least tender of his love And though all have not the spirit bringing forth the fruits thereof in them to vvit love mecknes gentlenes c. as no vvicked persons have yet all even the vvicked in a certaine day have the Spirit in them to reprove and convince yea to call upon them and strive vvith them in order unto their Conversion for the Spirit of God reproves the world of sin John 19. 8. and Acts. 7. 50. Yee stiffe necked and uncircumcised yee doe alwayes resist the holy Ghost and Gen. 6. My spirit shall not always strive vvith or in man and many more to that purpose For a Second reason of its insufficiency thou sayest it reveales not Iesus Christ a saviour in respect it gives not a discoverie of his incarnation passion resurrection c. Citing 1. Cor. 2. 2. and from this place thou wouldst inferr that the Apostle preferred the knowledge of Christ as crucified outwardly to all other knowledge Answer Though wee willingly acknowledge that to know him even as he did outwardly come and was crucified c. Is a Good knowledge and of great profit and comfort to them who believe yet wee deny that the knowledge of him as outwardly crucified is the best of all other knowledge of him or to be preferred to all other wayes of knowing him nor does that Scripture 1. Cor. 2. 2 prove it For Paul is not speaking there of Christ as crucified outwardly in Iudea but of him as hee was inwardly crucified in the Corinthians when Paul first came unto them to preach the Gospell as the words doe plainly import being rightly translated out of the Greek for I determined not to know any thing 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 i. e. in you but Iesus Christ and him crucified This was the Apostle his care and travell in his ministrie to declare and hold forth unto the Corinthians and other gentiles Iesus Christ who was crucified in them in his suffering seed even that seed of light and truth which suffered and was crucified in them under the burden of their transgression in the time of their unbeliefe and to preach salvation and deliverance from sin and wrath through Iesus Christ according to his weak and low appearance in them in the suffering seed through their beleving in him and closing with him as manifest therein according to which hee said to the Galathians that Iesus Christ was evidently set befor their eyes crucified in them 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and Ephes. 3. v. 8. hee said this grace was given unto him to preach 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 i. e. in the gentiles the unsearcheable riches of Christ parallel to which is that of the Apostle 1. Col. 27. for so should all these places be translated which riches of Christ lay hid and wrapped up in them in the seed of the Kingdome which was the least of all seeds even as the riches and fruitfulnes of a tree lyes hid in the seed of it which coms to be brought forth as the seed takes root and gets liberty to grow up unto the due stature so for this the Apostle laboured that people might know Christ in them and might embrace him in their hearts that so hee might be formed in them Gal 4. 19. And they might know him to lâ—ve in them and his life to rule in them which is more then to know him as outwardly crucified and indeed none know the weight and greatnes of vvhat hee suffered outvvardly but vvho knovv him first as hee hath suffered in them and suffer and become crucified vvith him so as to have a Sympathy fellovv feeling vvith him even as the members suffer and are pained vvhen any thing hurts the head or heart And vvhereas thou sayest you see the Apostle judges the knowledge of Christ crucified to be that one thing necessary Wee deny that the knovvledge of his being outvvardly crucified is that one thing necessary for people must knovv him in them Know yee not that Christ is in you unles yee be reprobats 1. Cor. 13. 5. As for thy charge upon the Quaker saying with what face can you blame me for being in darknes seeing your opinion is that all men have sufficient light in them It is frivolous for though the light vvhich is sufficient be in thee thy opposition to the light blinds thee and hinders thee from seing light a man may have a candle burning in his house but if hee put it under a bushell it vvill not give him the sight of things in the house That there is no other name under heaven wherby any can be saved but the name of Iesus Christ is granted but that name is another thing then the bare expression or declaration and knovvledge of vvords or things as with out becaus his name is said to be a strong tower wherunto the righteous fly and are safe vvhich is another thing then the bare nameing of his death and crosse vvithout for many unrighteous plead a right to that and can fly unto it as vve see by the example of the Papists To vvhom it seems yee vvill needs joine your selves in this matter vvho say that the outvvard naming of Christ and signing vvith the crosse puts avvay Devils and that vvee are of another mind then you in this matter is much to our advantage becaus vvee knovv the inward is the maine thing and vvher it is enjoyed the efficacy benefit of the outvvard can not be vvanting though
Scriptures cited by thee for all these Scriptures speake of works with a limitation as Rom. 3. 20 by the deeds of the law there shall no fllesh be justified and Gal. 2. 16. knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law here the works of the law are excluded but not the works of Christinus which are not of the law for the law or first Covenant was weak and gave not strength to them who wer under it to fulfill righteousnes but these who were in Christ Iesus witnessed the righteousnes of the law fulfilled in them who walked not after the flesh but after the spirit And as for that other Scripture Tit. 3. 5. though it exclude works of mens doing as of themselves yet it excluds not all works nor inward righteousnes of Christ but expressely includs it according to his mercy he saved us by the washing of regeneration and renewing of the holy holy Ghost thou cauldest not have brought a more plaine proof against thy selfe for thou citest this Scripture as holding forth justification Now the Apostle sayeth he saved us according to his mercy by the washing of regeneration and renewing of the holy Ghost and is not the washing of regeneration and renewing of the holy Ghost a vvork which comprehends many particular works of the Spirit of Christ in the Saints And is not regeneration and the renewing of the holy Ghost a righteousnes wrought in us How is it then that thou art not ashamed to charge us with rank Popery for saying wee are justified by a righteousnes wrought in us seeing the very Scripture cited by thee is expresly for it May wee not pertinently returne these words upon thee which thou misappliest to us Oh tell it not in Gath publish it not in the Streets of Askelon c. That a man who pretends to teach others aright in the matter of justification hath so confounded himselfe that to prove that justification is not by a righteousnes wrought vvithin bring a Scripture which speaks expresly of a righteousnes vvithin to wit that of regeneration and renovation by which wee are saved And if any should say the vvords doe not say vve are justified by the vvashing of regeneration and renevving of the holy Ghost but vvee are saved therby as intending sanctification and not justification I answer This helps not the Author out of the ditch for he brings this Scripture forth applying it to the matter of justification But againe if these vvords exclude all works generally and vvithout any limitation then they exclude all works vvhich are vvrought by the Spirit of Christ from sanctification as if men vvere sanctified by no vvorks of the Spirit of Christ within them or if it be said that vvorks of our ovvne doing selfe-righteousnes are only excluded from having place in our sanctification but not the vvorks vvrought in and by the Spirit of Christ then I say vvhy may not the same distinction have place in all these other Scriptures vvhich say vvee are not justified by vvorks c. and indeed in all these Scriptures it holds true no lesse concerning sanctification then concerning justification As thus by the deeds of the Law there shall no flesh be sanctified knovving that a man is not sanctified by the works of the Law c. but it vvere vaine to infer from this that men at Sanctified by no vvorks of righteousnes wrought in them by the Spirit of Christ therefore it is as vaine to infer that men are justified by no vvorks of righteousnes wrought in them by his Spirit Pag 22. Thou sayest wee can shift of popery with this that they are not our good works which deserve and merit justification but the good works of Christs working in us yea I say wee doe justly cast of the accusation of Popery as having the expresse testimony of Scripture that wee are justified by works to wit such as are wrought in Christ and by him in us Iames. 2. 24. you see then that a man is justified by works and not by faith only compared with Tit. 3. 5. before-mentioned and as for the Papists works by which they seeke to be justified wee doe not acknowledge them to be such works as whereby or wherein any can be justified And vvhereas thou pleadest that the good vvorks of Christs vvorking in us are ours citing Isai. 26. 12. Matth. 5. 16. c. Wee grant it but they are not ours in that signification as vvhere it is said hee that is entred into his rest hath ceased from his owne works Hebr. 4. 10. There are works which are so ours that they are not the works of the sanctifiing renevving Spirit of Christ in us and such are works both of open unrighteousnes and of selfe fained righteousnes vvhich has no better root to bring them forth then mans ovvne will and Spirit and by such vvorks vvee deny to be justified yea vve deny all such vvorks and the justification by them and desire to stand in a continual denyal unto them and forbearance from them But againe there are such vvorks vvhich are so ours that they are Christs also vvho vvorks them in us and by us and are ours by his free grace and by such works vvee affirme men are justified Pag. 23. Thou pleadest That men cannot be justified by any works of Christs working in them because they are imperfect And for their imperfection thou instancest 1. Faith becaus it is said O yee of litle faith why doubt yee Answ. By this thou mayst as well exclude faith from justification every way as vvorks if it vvere granted that their faith vvas imperfect but that Scripture nor no other speaks not of imperfect faith but of little faith Novv little Faith is perfect in the measure of it as a little Gold is perfect Gold And though the Disciples had doubting yet the faith vvas not the doubting nor vvas it made impure by it for the least measure of true faith can never be defiled othervvise it could not purify the heart it is like the fire vvhich cannot be defiled vvith the impurities of those things it vvorks upon And as for the Disciples at that time as they vverein part justified or approved by the Lord in relation to their faith so were they reproved and not justified of him in relation unto or becaus of their doubting But this Scripture nor none other provs not that faith was or is alwayes accompanied with doubting Abraham beleived Gods promise without doubting and was strong in the faith giving glory to God and it was imputed to him for Righteousnes Rom. 4. 20. 21. 22. And said James His faith was perfected by works Chap 2. 22. For that which is perfect in a lesse measure can be further perfected in a greater Secondly Thou pleadest that knowledge is imperfect becaus the Apostle saith VVe know but in part 1 Cor. 13. 9 But the Apostle does not say our knovvledge is imperfect or impure Wee may knovv a thing in part and yet that
righteousnes which could proceed from his owne will and Spirit even all the willings and runnings which can arise from a mans selfe though he be a Saint without the immediate operation of the Spirit of Christ the Saints have this to watch against to keep downe the active and working selfe-will and stop it from working the selfe-righteousnes which if it be not watched against and stood against will fall a working its righteousnes which God accepts not as being but the bare righteousnes of man and this is that righteousnes which Paul denyed to have which hee even calleth the righteousnes of the Law but this which is of the Law thou cunningly omittest becaus it made against thee it seems Now what that righteousnes of God through faith was which hee desires to have hee plainly expresseth ver 10. that he might know him and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of his sufferings in being made conforme unto his death Now is not the knowledge of him and the power of his resurrection a work of the Spirit of Christ in the Saints by which they are justified according to that by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justifie many and is not the fellowship of his suffering or the suffering with him a work of his Spirit Lastly is not the conformity unto his death a work of his Spirit in the Saint comprehending the whole work of mortification Pag. 26 Thy last argument from 2. Cor. 5. 21 is most absurd and impious for accordingly it would follow that as Christ was made sin for us or suffred for our sins who himselfe had no sin no not in the least So wee may be made righteous before God though wee have no righteousnes no holines no faith no repentance no mortification no good thing wrought in us And doth not this strengthen the wicked ungodly and profane in their presumption to have title to Christ his righteousnes And so to returne thy misapplied instance in another case Suppose some of the profane who plead a right to Christs righteousnes having lost some of their number should happen to hear thee disputing against all good works as being profitable to justification might they not say concerning thee and thy brethren who teach such doctrine wee have not only gott the lost sheep but the lost shepherds and the cheifest of them too on our side let us rejoice wee have found them Wee find the Apostle maks a farr better inference from Christ his dying for us 2. cor 6. 15. he died for all that they who live might not any longer live to themselves but to God yea and every where hee holdeth forth inward holiness and righteous as that without which no man can lay claime to Christ if any man be in Christ hee is a new creature but he doth not say God reputes him a new creature though hee be not really renewed And though it be said that wee are made righteous in him this hinders not as thou vainly inferrest that wee are not made righteousnes by an inward righteousnes for hee is in the Saints aud fulfills the righteousnes of the Law in them that the righteousnes of the law might be fulfilled in us Rom. 8. 4. Therefore that 2. Cor. 5. 21. is thus to be understood that Iesus Christ who knew so sin was made to be sin for us that is suffered for our sins that wee who had really sinned and so deserved wrath might partake of the love and grace by him and through the workings thereof be made the righteousnes of God in him for that the Apostle understood here a really being made righteous and not a being esteemed or held as righteous while indeed impure is very evident by the whole following chapter but especially towards the end what fellowship hath righteousnes with unrighteousnes wherefore come out from among them touch not the â—uncleane â—hing be yee separate and I will receive you and yee shall be unto me for sons and daughters Now to be received of the Lord is to be justified of him and here wee see plainly that in order thereunto there is required a righteousnes by which they must be separated from the evill and uncleane and must not touch it And whereas thou sayest that the holiest actions of the Saints becaus of the sinfulnes of these actions deserve condemnation I aske thee whither did the Apostles sin in writing the Scriptures in preaching Christ and gathering the Churches Whither their being the instruments made these things sinfull which were done not only by the command but by the power and vertue of Christ in them and seing thou canstnot deny but the Scriptures called by thee the word of God were brought forth by the holy Spirit in the holy men of God and did flow as waters from the Spirit of God which gave them forth through the very first penmen of them becaus of the uncleannes wich thou supposest to have been in them If thou sayest Nay thou contradictest thy former instance of cleane water receiving a tincture of uncleannes from the uncleane pipe through which it passeth if thou sayst yea to wit that the Scriptures were defiled and corrupted by the penmen of them I leave it to all of any sound judgement whither you or wee be most esteemers of the Scriptures wee who say they wer pure words as gold without any tincture of uncleannes or corruption as they came forth from the Spirit of God through the penmen of them or you if you say that they were defiled with the uncleannes of the men through which they were given forth hee who has any true understanding let him judge concerning these things Pag. 26. Thou blamest it as an unsutable thing for a Quaker to say that that people to whom hee is joined are the most Christ-like Christians this day upon the earth and yet will any of you say lesse of your way for if yours be not the best way why doe yee plead so much for it Why doe yee preach it up Why doe yee study to draw people to it and complaine of those who have left it Now is not a good Principle a ready way to lead people to good practises And are not these who are in the right way of the flock of Christ And is not Christs flock like unto him Can it therefore be an unsutable thing for one who supposeth himselfe to be of Christs flock to say the flock with whom hee is is likest to Christ Will any of you say lesse except yee grant your selves not to be of Christ's flock Wee ar not the most Christ-like people sayest thou by what wee outwardly appear becaus the Monks and Hermits therein excell us nor yet by what wee inwardly feele becaus others different from us have felt as much As to the first thou hast shewed thy ignorance of the very appearance of Christiantiy for the appearance of Christianity is not in fleeing the Society of men or retireing the outward man making Vowes of
Truth cleared of Calumnies Wherein A Book intituled A Dialogue betwixt a Quaker and a Stable Christian. Printed at Aberdeen and upon good ground judged to be writ by William Mitchell a Preacher neer by it or at least that he had the Cheife hand in it is examined and the disingenuity of the Author in his representing the Quakers is discovered Here is also their case truly stated cleared demonstrated and the Objections of their Opposers answered according to truth Scripture and right Reason By ROBERT BARCLAY Isai. 53 1. Who hath believed our report and to whom is the arme of the Lord revealed Joh 5 39. 40. Yee search the Scriptures because in them ye think to have eternal life and they are they which testify of me and ye will not come unto me that ye may have life Matth 5 11. Blessed are yee when men shall revile you and say all manner of evill against you falsely for my sake Act. 24 13. After the way which they call Heresy so Worship I the God of my Fathers 1 Thess. 5 21. Prove all things hold fast that which is good Printed in the Year 1670. The Preface To the READER READER FOR thy better understanding the matters handled in this treatise I thought fit to premise somewhat by way of Preface and indeed the nature of the thing calleth for it that thou mayest receive a true information concerning the People here pleaded for and so generally opposed but more particularly in the City of Aberdeen that thou mayest understand how the case stands betwixt them and their adversaries in it Know then that after the Lord had raised up the witnesses of this day and had opened in them and unto them the Light and Glory thereof diverse of them at sundry times were moved of the Lord to come into these parts unto the towne of Aberdeen in love to the seed which there was to be gathered but their acceptance for divers ye â—res together was very unsutable For the enemy that had wrought and was exalted in the mystery of inquity to daeken the appearance of this day had prepared and stirred up his Ministers to resist them and their testimony by aspersing them with many grosse Calumnies lyes and reproaches as demâ—nâ—ed distracted bodily possessed of the devill practising abominations under Colour of being led to them by the Spirit and as to their Principles blasphemous denyers of the true Christ of Heaven Hell Angells the Resurrection of the body and day of judgment inconsistant with Magistracy nothing better then John of Leyden and his complices This was the vulgar and familiar language of the pulpits which was for a time received for unquestionable truth till about the yeare 1663. some sober and serious Professors in and about the said Towne did begin to weigh these things more narrowly and find the savour of that life in the testimony of that so much reproached people which some yeares before had stirred in others who were now come to a great losse and decay and this gave them occasion to examine the Principles and wayes of that People more exactly which proving upon inquiry to be far otherwayes then they had been represented gave them a further occasion to see the integrity and soundnesse of that despised People and of their Principles on the one hand and on the other to see the prejudic'd disingenuity and enmity of their accusers In these the Lord caused his word to prosper who were few in number yet noted as to their sobriety in their former way of profession and raised them up to own that People and their testimony and to become one with them now their adversarys finding nothing in these whom the Lord had raised up in these parts whereof to accuse them as to their conversation these Calumnies must bee cast upon strangers living some hundred miles distant where these untruths cannot be so easily disproved but as to these at home the tune must be turned therefor George Meldrum who hath more particulary espoused the quarrel against truth and its followers then any of his Brethren begins to say that it is no wonder to see Quakers forbeare grosse outbreakings for that Hereticks have formerly come as great a length but surely abstinence from grosse outbreakings and a cleane outward conversation is no good Argument against the Quakers so now the clamour is though they have been Professors and that noted ones too and though they be honest in their conversation yet they are deluded and deceived and are deceivers And thus as of old the truth and the witnesses of it have alwayes been reproached by those of the Pharisaical Spirit So now for sometimes they said Christ had a Devill sometimes the Apostles are drunck and other times mad Since these things have thus occurred there hath been no little industry used to suppresse this People by threatnings and persecution on which account divers of our Friends have been cast into Prison and some detained long in of the said towne and also by preaching and writing of which for thy information receive this account There were 30. Queries sent by the Bishop of Aberdeen so called to Alexander Jaffray Also about the same time a paper of 3. or 4. sheets subscribed by G. M. intituled The state of the controversy betwixt the Protestants and the Quakers The 30 Querys were not long after answered by G. K. in respect of A. J. his sicknesse at that time and returned to him from A. J. and sometime afterwards George Meldrum his paper called The state of the controversy c. was answered by G. K. to which papers of G. K. somewhat was premised by A. J. which papers being severall times called for but particularly in a letter from G. M. his own hand to A. J. wherein he intreats for an answer that hee might know as hee said in what things wee did differ or in what things wee onely seemed to differ were sent to him within 9. monthes after the receit of G. M. his papers Before all which a sermon on Purpose was preached by G. M. against the quakers in the ninth month 1666. wherein the summe of both his papers was asserted onely that it was digested in a Pulpit-way and introduced with an insinuating discourse of his pretended kindnesse for the persons of some Quakers and his unwillingnesse to medle with them were it not his office and zeale for the truth did ingage him to it but if it had been so indeed hee would have said no more of them then the truth whereas it is stuffed with lyes which are positively asserted to be the Quakers principles by this pretended Preacher of the Gospel from his chaire of verity so called or rather of falsehood whereas yet G. M. his Papers afore-mentioned were not so much as sent far lesse answered by which according to the words of his owne letter above mentioned he was to receive an understanding of the diffeâ—ences and yet before he received this understanding whilst he was
their tâ—stimony but by the inward testimony of the spirit Calvin after hee has said all that can be said of outward wayes at last concludes the only certaine way to know it in deed is by the testimony of the spirit l. 1. c. 7. Sect. 4. of his Inst. as to the course that Paul tooke with the obstinate Jewes it was very commendable becaus they said they beleived the Scriptures and seemed to esteeme them much though they opposed the truth witnessed to in the Scriptures so that it is evident that some great pretenders to the Scriptures can make a cloak of them to deny Christ himselfe as yee doe at this day And though Paul tooke that course with the Iewes yet wee see hee tooke no such course with the Athenians to whâ—m he cited no Scripture nor endeavoured to perswade them by it but told them they were the off spring of God and wished them to feel after him who was not afar of from every one of them thirdly sayest thou the saints had recourse to the Scriptures in the examination of Doctrines So have wee too as befor has beene declared but that will not prove the Scripture is the rule Pag. 16. Fourthly thou sayest wee ar commanded to search the Scripturs Iohn 5. 39. Answer The words may be translated you search the Scriptures as Pasor translateth them But wee doe acknowledge the Scriptures are to be searched but are not to be rested in which was the Iewes fault who vvould not come to Christ to get life thinking to have eternal life in the Scriptures vvhich Christ cheks them for and that the Scriptures are profitable for doctrine correction instruction vvee owne and are commended for their dignity and authority but they are thus profitable onely to such as come to the Spirit to guide and direct them hovv to make use of them else they may prove an occasion of stumbling as they did to the Pharisees hence it is said that the man of God may be perfect mark the man of God not every Man novv no man can be truely called the man of God but hee that is led by the Spirit of God Next thou vvouldst undertake to prove that it is not the mind of God that the Spirit within men should be the Rule in which thou fallest very short as appears by saying that Christ made use of the Scripture to prove himselfe c and not the light within And did these Jewes receive him who had the Scriptures did they not reject him and why because they hearkned not unto the inward voice and testimony of the Father concerning him and this was the testimony which hee said was greater then that of Iohn though Iohn was the greatest of the Prophets and those vvho beleeve had the witnesse in themselves 1 Ioh. 5. 10. but to thâ— unbeleiving Iewes hee said yee have neither heard his voice nor seene his shape Secondly Thou sayest there is an expresse command to try the Spirits 1. Ioh. 4. 1. Answ. but is there any word there of trying them by the Scripture Cannot the Spirits be tryed by the Spirit of God or is there any better way to try them How tryed Peter the spirit of Ananias and Saphirah And is not the tryall and discerning of Spirits the priviledge of the Saints now And how is it a peculiar priviledge to saints unles it be done by the Spirit of God For the Scriptures any can make use of the Apostle Iohn writing to the Saints concerning seducers points them to the Anoinâ—ing which remained in them and did teach them all things and by this they did know all things and consequently Spirits 1. Iohn 2. 20. 26. Thirdly thou sayest undoubtedly there are strong delusions c. Ans. there are so indeed But was there any more strongly deluded then the Pharisees Yet how much did they lay claime to the Scriptures how came they then to be deluded who wer so skilled in the Scriptures according to the letter of them and the poor People who were not so skilled so rightly to hit the matter And as to thy question what way shall the delusion be tryd if you neglect the VVord of God and look only within Answ As for the VVord of God nor yet the Scriptures testimony wee neglect not but what way thinkest thou shall the delusion be tryed If you neglect the Spirit within and look only upon the letter and words vvithout you if the Delusion be strong in the heart will it not twine and vvrest the Scriptures without to cause the Scriptures to seeme for it and suppose a man be deluded with a Spirit of delusion what can help him but God whose Spirit searcheth all the deepest things of Sathan and can and doth dscover them to those vvho love to be undeceived and are faithfull to God in what they certainly know And though the same deluding spirit who deceived first may deceive over againe that makes nothing against the insufficiency of the Spirit to discover the delusion but if a man be deceived either first or againe he is to blame himself for his defect in not being duely watchfull and faithfull in what is discovered to him of God truly and certainly Consider the tendency of thy argument which strikes not only at the certainty of the Saints faith now from the Spirit within and the assurance of knowledge there from but also strikes at the very certainty and assurance of all the Faith and knowledge the holy Prophets and men of God had from the Spirit vvithin when Seripture was not Wee are in no greater hazzard to be deceived now then they were then You that set up the Scripture as your only rule the many sects of you what jangling and contesting is among you while one pleads for his sence and another for his which all proceeds from their wandring from the Spirit that gave forth the Scriptures And as to satisfying of others wee refer recommend them to the same Spirit in them to receive their satisfaction from that which only can and will satisfy them who wait for it in singlenes Pag. 18. And whereas thou sayest the Saints are led and guided by the Spirit but it is according to the Scriptures So say wee too But it doth not therefore follow that the Spirit hath so tyed and limited himselfe to the use of the scriptures as alwayes to use them in every particular step of his guiding the Saints the Spirit is free to use or not use the scriptures at his pleasure and guideth the Saints in many particular steps of their life for which there is no particular scripture either to approve or disprove them in As for the more sure VVord of Prophesy wee grant it is the rule but deny that that more sure VVord is the Scriptures but it is that VVord in the heart from which the Scriptures came and in and by which the Scriptures are to be interpreted and is it not grosse blindnes darknes to say the Scripture is more
doe so are wee disingenuous and deceitful becaus wee deny them in your acceptation vvhich only comprehends the shadow that passeth away If Baptisme which is really and truly the Baptisme of Christ wee owne and participation of the Body and Blood of Christ which is really so I say if these things be really owned by us as they are indeed can wee be said to deny them becaus wee use not the shadow as yee doe while yee are ignorant of and strangers to the substance Nay it may be retorted much more properly and without deceipt upon your selves that yee do but pretendedly in VVords owne these things while indeed yee deny them so that herein yee are found to be the Equivocators who are contending for the husk and will needs have it accounted the kernell and there can be no errour more dangerous then to place the shadow for the substance for suchas so doe are those that trample upon the precious ordinances of Iesus Christ in which the work of grace is begun and increased Pag. 32. To prove thy assertions particularly thou beginnest saying that singing of Psalms is an ordinance of Iesus Christ vvhereby if thou understandest that singing of Psalmes was used by the Saints that it is a part of Gods VVorship vvhen performed in his will and by his Spirit and that yet it may be and is vvarrantably performed among the Saints it is a thing denied by no Quaker so called and it is not unusuall among them wherof I have my selfe beene a witnesse and have felt of the sweetnes and quickning vertue of the Spirit therein and at such occasions ministred And that at times Davids VVords may also be used as the Spirit leads thereunto and as they sute the condition of the party is acknowledged without dispute but that without the Spirit in selfe-will not regarding how the thing sutes their condition for a mixt multitude to use and sing the expressions of blessed David wee deny For that was not the method the Apostle spoke of 1. Cor. 14. 15. when hee said I will sing with the Spirit and I will sing with the understanding also therfore though singing of Psalms in the true use of them be allowable yet as used by you it is abominable and is a mock worship becaus yee cannot deny but that the persons using it are a mixed multitude knowne to be Drunkards Swearers VVhoremongers c. Now such cannot praise God for they are dead in their sins and it is the living that praise him and not the dead Next all lying is abomination but many times it falls out that by singing of Psalmes the people come to lye in the presence of God in stead of worshiping him by saying I am not puâ—t up in mind I have no deceitfull heart I water my couch with teares and much more of this nature which were the particular experiences of David and may be safely said by those that vvitnesse the same thing but as to you that use them are false untrue I say as thou doest that though every Psalme does not sute our condition yet in every Psalm there may be meditaion for edification but this no wayes meets the case for there is a great difference betwixt meditating upon a Psalme singing one vvhereby vvee apply ourselves to the Lord in the vvords of David vvhich unless they sute our condition cannot be done without a lye Pag. 33 and 34. Thou comest to prove that Baptisme with water is an ordinance of Iesus Christ for which thou givest as a reason First because John baptised with water and was really sent of God Which thing is not denyed because Iohns baptisme vvas a Baptisme vvith VVater But that that vvas the Baptisme vvhich vvas to continue is the matter in question to prove vvhich thou bringest in thy Second reason that the baptisme of Christ and the baptisme of Iohn differed only in circumstance and not in substance because they agree in the Author in the Matter and in the End To which I answer that though they agreed in the Author that will not conclude them to be one because by the same reason it might be said that the Old Testament and the New are one or that Circumcision Baptism are one for that God was the Author of both As to the matter they are not one neither for the one was a Baptisme with VVater and the other a Baptisme with the Spirit and with fire as Iohn himselfe distinguisheth them Mark 1. 8. Now in respect baptisme with water can be administred where the other to wit with the Spirit is not therefore they are not one in Substance They also agree not in the end for the end of the one to wit Baptisme with VVater is but to point or shew forth the other So that as the shadow and the Substance differ in their ends in like manner doe these two for the end of the shadow is but to point to the substance the end of the Substance in this thing being to cleansc and purifie the heart produceing that effect to such as it is truly administred unto but the shadow is frequently administred and the heart not cleansed therfor they differ in their ends Now to shew that they differ in substance it is written Acts. 19. Vers. 2. 3. 4. 5. that there were of the baptisme of Iohn who had not so much as heard of the holy Ghost far lesse received it Now had the Baptisme of Iohn and the Baptisme of Christ beene one they could not have had the one and beene altogether ignorant of the other For a Third Reason thou sayest that Iesus Christ commanded and enjoined the Disciples to baptise and that baptising they used water But wher hee commands them to Baptise Math. 28. there is no command to baptise them with VVater or into vvater but into the name of the Father Son and holy Spirit So here is the baptisme into the Spirit but not into outward water and the Apostles vvere Ministers of the Spirit and ministred the Spirit unto those vvho beleived And though they used the water baptisme at tymes yet it rests to be proved that they did it in obedience to that generall command Math. 28. and not in condescendence to the people vvho had received a great esteeme of Iohn and vvere so nursed up vvith outward Ceremonyes that it vvas hard suddenly to vveane them from such as they did the like in other cases vvhich also servs for ansvver to thy Fourth Reason vvher thou instancest Peter his baptising Cornelius after he received the Spirit for Peters vvords imply no command but only that at that occasion the thing might be done Can any man said he forbid water that they may not be baptised Acts. 10. 47. And though it be said Vers. 48. that hee commanded them to be baptised in the name of Christ yet it holds forth no command from Christ only the thing being agreed upon that it might be done he bid doe it but that the Apostles received