Selected quad for the lemma: spirit_n

Word A Word B Word C Word D Occurrence Frequency Band MI MI Band Prominent
spirit_n ghost_n holy_a reason_n 6,112 5 5.0295 4 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A38061 A preservative against Socinianism. The first part shewing the direct and plain opposition between it, and the religion revealed by God in the Holy Scriptures / by Jonath. Edwards. Edwards, Jonathan, 1629-1712. 1693 (1693) Wing E217; ESTC R24310 65,484 89

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believe_v socinus_n lib._n supra_fw-la cit_fw-la eodem_fw-la cap._n and_o indeed_o it_o be_v no_o wonder_n it_o shall_v hinder_v man_n from_o go_v to_o heaven_n if_o it_o be_v true_a that_o volkel_n tell_v we_o that_o this_o doctrine_n of_o the_o trinity_n be_v not_o a_o error_n that_o be_v owe_v to_o the_o ignorance_n and_o mistake_n of_o man_n but_o to_o the_o delusion_n of_o the_o devil_n 9_o that_o it_o be_v a_o blasphemous_a doctrine_n as_o another_o of_o they_o say_v trin._n hatch_v in_o hell_n and_o from_o thence_o fetch_v by_o the_o son_n of_o perdition_n and_o obtrude_v upon_o the_o church_n and_o if_o this_o be_v so_o ay_o i_o must_v profess_v myself_o to_o be_v of_o the_o same_o mind_n with_o franz_n smal._n and_o to_o hope_v with_o he_o that_o this_o absurd_a and_o most_o false_a doctrine_n as_o he_o call_v it_o will_v short_o be_v chase_v and_o hiss_v out_o of_o the_o world_n but_o far_o particular_o concern_v christ_n they_o tell_v we_o that_o he_o have_v no_o existence_n before_o his_o formation_n in_o the_o womb_n of_o the_o virgin_n and_o the_o be_v which_o he_o then_o have_v be_v pure_o humane_a and_o therefore_o what_o be_v say_v of_o the_o divinity_n of_o christ_n be_v a_o mere_a fable_n innotuerat_fw-la owe_v to_o senseless_a and_o absurd_a interpretation_n of_o holy_a scripture_n 20._o the_o account_n of_o his_o eternal_a generation_n be_v a_o mere_a romance_n false_a impossible_a a_o plain_a contradiction_n ar._n the_o hominum_fw-la contrivance_n of_o some_o idle_a trifle_a person_n who_o have_v nothing_o else_o to_o do_v but_o to_o invent_v such_o absurd_a and_o incredible_a notion_n here_o by_o the_o way_n i_o must_v desire_v the_o reader_n to_o take_v notice_n not_o only_o of_o the_o impiety_n but_o likewise_o of_o the_o unparalleled_a impudence_n and_o scurrility_n of_o these_o blasphemer_n and_o consequent_o whether_o it_o be_v fit_a to_o entertain_v any_o favourable_a opinion_n of_o the_o doctrine_n of_o these_o man_n and_o much_o more_o to_o have_v their_o person_n and_o write_n in_o admiration_n 2_o lie_v concern_v the_o spirit_n of_o god_n they_o tell_v we_o that_o he_o be_v not_o a_o person_n as_o the_o church_n of_o god_n have_v hitherto_o vain_o imagine_v but_o only_o a_o quality_n a_o accident_n sometime_o take_v for_o the_o innate_a power_n and_o virtue_n reside_v in_o god_n and_o sometime_o for_o the_o operation_n that_o proceed_v from_o that_o virtue_n and_o faculty_n passim_fw-la crellius_n have_v write_v a_o particular_a treatise_n de_fw-fr spiritu_fw-la sancto_fw-it and_o therein_o he_o tell_v we_o that_o the_o word_n spirit_n in_o its_o first_o and_o proper_a signification_n denote_v 455._o that_o breath_n which_o be_v expire_v out_o of_o the_o mouth_n of_o man_n or_o other_o animal_n and_o from_o the_o resemblance_n that_o be_v to_o be_v find_v between_o they_o it_o be_v transfer_v to_o signify_v that_o divine_a virtue_n in_o god_n which_o we_o call_v the_o holy_a ghost_n and_o therefore_o when_o christ_n joh._n 20._o 22._o breathe_v on_o his_o disciple_n and_o thereby_o confer_v upon_o they_o the_o holy_a ghost_n ibid._n he_o do_v thereby_o give_v they_o to_o understand_v that_o the_o holy_a spirit_n be_v a_o emanation_n from_o god_n not_o unlike_o a_o vapour_n or_o breathe_n at_o this_o rate_n the_o holy_a ghost_n shall_v it_o seem_v be_v a_o subtle_a and_o tenuious_a substance_n contrary_a to_o what_o he_o assert_v cap._n 1._o where_o he_o plain_o tell_v we_o that_o the_o spirit_n of_o god_n be_v not_o proper_o a_o substance_n but_o a_o quality_n therefore_o call_v in_o the_o scripture_n the_o power_n of_o the_o most_o high_a &_o virtus_fw-la proprie_fw-la qualitas_fw-la est_fw-la p._n 466._o but_o forasmuch_o as_o many_o thing_n by_o his_o own_o acknowledgement_n be_v affirm_v of_o and_o action_n ascribe_v to_o the_o holy_a ghost_n which_o can_v well_o agree_v to_o quality_n but_o must_v suppose_v the_o thing_n to_o which_o they_o be_v ascribe_v to_o be_v a_o substance_n such_o as_o be_v local_a motion_n bodily_a shape_n division_n and_o the_o like_a to_o reconcile_v therefore_o these_o seem_a difference_n he_o be_v of_o opinion_n that_o the_o spirit_n of_o god_n consider_v abstract_o in_o itself_o be_v a_o mere_a quality_n but_o yet_o this_o virtue_n may_v be_v impress_v upon_o and_o convey_v into_o some_o subtle_a and_o celestial_a matter_n &_o ejus_fw-la naturae_fw-la valde_fw-la congruae_fw-la which_o be_v agreeable_a to_o its_o nature_n ibid._n as_o we_o find_v the_o vital_a energy_n of_o the_o soul_n communicate_v first_o to_o the_o animal_n spirit_n and_o by_o they_o to_o all_o the_o other_o part_n of_o the_o body_n and_o as_o we_o find_v the_o influence_n of_o the_o celestial_a body_n and_o quality_n of_o terrestrial_a one_o heat_v light_n and_o odour_n convey_v in_o some_o subtle_a effluvium_n from_o the_o body_n in_o which_o they_o be_v into_o the_o air_n and_o some_o other_o subject_n at_o a_o great_a distance_n so_o say_v he_o by_o the_o spirit_n of_o god_n be_v sometime_o mean_v that_o 476._o tenuious_a matter_n which_o contain_v a_o divine_a quality_n in_o it_o and_o by_o which_o it_o be_v convey_v into_o the_o mind_n of_o man_n and_o in_o this_o sense_n he_o conceive_v the_o spirit_n of_o god_n may_v be_v call_v a_o corporeal_a substance_n which_o have_v extension_n and_o be_v capable_a of_o division_n as_o other_o body_n though_o spiritual_a be_v ibid._n and_o by_o this_o notion_n he_o think_v he_o have_v find_v out_o a_o easy_a way_n to_o solve_v the_o former_a difficulty_n concern_v the_o local_a motion_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n and_o particular_o his_o descent_n upon_o our_o saviour_n at_o the_o time_n of_o his_o baptism_n and_o upon_o the_o apostle_n in_o the_o day_n of_o pentecost_n of_o his_o be_v pour_v out_o of_o his_o be_v give_v sometime_o in_o measure_n and_o sometime_o without_o it_o of_o his_o be_v divide_v and_o distribute_v and_o the_o like_a which_o though_o we_o interpret_v of_o the_o gift_n he_o 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leave_v it_o to_o the_o reader_n discretion_n to_o conjecture_v though_o he_o have_v give_v sufficient_a intimation_n how_o he_o will_v have_v he_o govern_v his_o opinion_n for_o in_o the_o other_o instance_n which_o he_o produce_v the_o quality_n and_o the_o effluvium_n proceed_v from_o the_o same_o subject_n and_o he_o give_v you_o no_o limitation_n no_o caution_n in_o the_o least_o to_o think_v otherwise_o in_o this_o case_n it_o be_v plain_a that_o some_o of_o his_o friend_n as_o he_o tell_v we_o be_v of_o that_o opinion_n that_o the_o spirit_n of_o god_n be_v nothing_o but_o a_o emanation_n a_o tenuious_a steam_n flow_v from_o the_o very_a substance_n of_o god_n as_o the_o breath_n do_v out_o of_o our_o mouth_n and_o nostril_n deo_fw-la quam_fw-la sententiam_fw-la say_v he_o in_o medio_fw-la relinquimus_fw-la he_o will_v not_o give_v you_o his_o opinion_n in_o this_o case_n it_o be_v but_o fit_a that_o in_o matter_n of_o religion_n every_o man_n shall_v be_v leave_v to_o his_o own_o freedom_n and_o therefore_o he_o fair_o leave_v you_o to_o your_o own_o it_o be_v plain_a if_o he_o be_v not_o himself_o of_o that_o opinion_n yet_o he_o think_v there_o be_v no_o harm_n in_o it_o otherwise_o he_o will_v have_v give_v his_o reader_n some_o caution_n about_o it_o which_o he_o have_v not_o in_o the_o least_o do_v and_o now_o we_o be_v come_v to_o the_o bottom_n or_o if_o you_o please_v to_o the_o very_a dregs_o of_o socinianism_n and_o that_o which_o be_v the_o true_a cause_n and_o source_n of_o all_o those_o extravagant_a and_o indeed_o blasphemous_a notion_n which_o these_o man_n have_v of_o almighty_a god_n who_o in_o their_o most_o refine_a and_o exalt_v speculation_n can_v raise_v their_o thought_n to_o conceive_v any_o substance_n above_o matter_n it_o be_v true_a they_o call_v god_n a_o spirit_n but_o it_o be_v as_o certain_a that_o they_o mean_v
the_o ministry_n and_o the_o person_n to_o who_o christ_n have_v commit_v the_o care_n and_o government_n of_o his_o church_n their_o distinction_n and_o authority_n to_o preach_v the_o gospel_n and_o to_o exercise_v discipline_n in_o it_o concern_v the_o sacrament_n and_o the_o end_n of_o their_o institution_n and_o particular_o concern_v the_o nature_n and_o efficacy_n of_o baptism_n and_o the_o lord_n supper_n last_o concern_v a_o future_a state_n and_o the_o condition_n of_o man_n after_o this_o life_n to_o which_o may_v be_v add_v some_o other_o doctrine_n which_o do_v not_o seem_v to_o have_v any_o connexion_n with_o the_o former_a but_o yet_o be_v of_o dangerous_a consequence_n to_o the_o peace_n and_o welfare_n of_o all_o civil_a society_n those_o i_o mean_v which_o he_o have_v advance_v about_o the_o power_n and_o authority_n of_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n the_o lawfulness_n of_o war_n and_o oath_n in_o a_o christian_a commonwealth_n which_o have_v as_o mischievous_a a_o 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together_o with_o some_o addition_n of_o his_o own_o not_o indeed_o so_o seem_o absurd_a as_o those_o of_o mahomet_n but_o i_o be_o afraid_a no_o less_o dangerous_a to_o the_o christian_a religion_n of_o which_o he_o have_v retain_v only_o the_o name_n together_o with_o the_o empty_a sound_n of_o the_o word_n but_o with_o such_o false_a gloss_n such_o force_a and_o malicious_a interpretation_n as_o have_v quite_o destroy_v the_o true_a notion_n as_o the_o whole_a design_n of_o the_o gospel_n in_o opposition_n to_o which_o he_o have_v give_v we_o a_o kind_n of_o natural_a and_o new_a religion_n not_o such_o as_o the_o spirit_n of_o god_n have_v reveal_v in_o his_o word_n but_o such_o as_o his_o own_o carnal_a reason_n suggest_v to_o he_o in_o opposition_n to_o that_o revelation_n and_o that_o this_o may_v not_o be_v look_v upon_o to_o be_v a_o uncharitable_a because_o a_o groundless_a charge_n i_o shall_v lay_v before_o the_o reader_n a_o scheme_n of_o the_o religion_n reveal_v by_o 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though_o they_o deny_v the_o eternal_a generation_n and_o divinity_n of_o christ_n and_o say_v that_o he_o have_v no_o existence_n before_o his_o be_v form_v in_o the_o womb_n of_o the_o virgin_n and_o appearance_n in_o the_o world_n and_o that_o the_o be_v which_o he_o then_o have_v be_v pure_o humane_a yet_o after_o his_o resurrection_n from_o the_o grave_n and_o his_o ascension_n into_o heaven_n they_o say_v that_o god_n the_o father_n as_o the_o reward_n of_o his_o obedience_n and_o suffering_n exalt_v he_o to_o the_o honour_n and_o dignity_n of_o a_o god_n not_o indeed_o to_o be_v the_o supreme_a and_o eternal_a god_n but_o however_o deus_fw-la verus_fw-la a_o true_a god_n distinct_a and_o separate_a from_o his_o father_n and_o socinus_n take_v it_o ill_a of_o his_o adversary_n that_o they_o shall_v charge_v he_o with_o deny_v christ_n to_o be_v god_n 645._o and_o complain_v against_o they_o that_o will_v not_o be_v bring_v to_o confess_v and_o worship_v he_o 631._o for_o their_o lord_n and_o god_n who_o be_v once_o a_o weak_a and_o infirm_a man_n and_o herein_o he_o say_v the_o power_n and_o goodness_n of_o god_n be_v discover_v and_o his_o admirable_a wisdom_n display_v in_o extol_v and_o deify_v this_o man_n beyond_o what_o we_o can_v imagine_v ibid._n and_o to_o the_o objection_n that_o may_v be_v make_v against_o this_o opinion_n as_o that_o which_o do_v unavoidable_o infer_v a_o plurality_n of_o god_n wolzogenius_n will_v tell_v you_o that_o if_o by_o two_o god_n you_o mean_v one_o of_o who_o be_v all_o thing_n and_o we_o in_o he_o and_o one_o by_o who_o be_v all_o thing_n and_o we_o by_o he_o we_o be_v so_o far_o say_v he_o from_o be_v ashamed_a of_o worship_v two_o such_o god_n that_o we_o rather_o glory_v in_o it_o christi_fw-la but_o if_o it_o shall_v be_v far_o say_v that_o to_o do_v they_o right_o they_o
45_o 46_o 47_o 48._o to_o declare_v unto_o we_o by_o this_o repetition_n the_o certainty_n of_o this_o thing_n as_o in_o the_o case_n of_o pharaoh_n dream_n which_o be_v double_v to_o assure_v he_o that_o the_o thing_n be_v establish_v by_o god_n gen._n 41._o 32._o the_o wit_n of_o man_n can_v not_o ●ind_v out_o word_n more_o full_a and_o significant_a to_o express_v the_o eternal_a duration_n of_o these_o punishment_n and_o god_n unalterable_a purpose_n to_o inflict_v they_o now_o to_o say_v notwithstanding_o all_o this_o that_o yet_o in_o the_o conclusion_n thing_n may_v happen_v to_o be_v otherwise_o then_o what_o the_o son_n of_o god_n have_v declare_v and_o this_o servant_n of_o god_n have_v foretell_v be_v with_o great_a boldness_n to_o contradict_v they_o both_o and_o if_o it_o be_v possible_a that_o these_o prediction_n may_v not_o be_v accomplish_v than_o the_o word_n be_v not_o faithful_a and_o true_a that_o be_v be_v not_o undoubted_o and_o absolute_o true_a so_o that_o at_o the_o same_o time_n that_o socinus_n put_v a_o end_n to_o the_o certainty_n of_o hell_n torment_n he_o do_v likewise_o put_v a_o end_n to_o the_o certainty_n of_o the_o write_n of_o the_o new_a testament_n and_o the_o prediction_n that_o be_v contain_v there_o which_o be_v high_o derogatory_n to_o the_o authority_n of_o those_o sacred_a write_n and_o particular_o of_o the_o revelation_n of_o st._n sohn_n which_o look_v too_o much_o like_o the_o take_n away_o from_o the_o word_n of_o the_o prophecy_n of_o that_o book_n which_o yet_o i_o hope_v it_o be_v not_o because_o of_o that_o dreadful_a punishment_n which_o attend_v those_o that_o do_v so_o rev._n 22._o 19_o in_o short_a if_o thing_n may_v happen_v otherwise_o than_o st._n john_n foresee_v and_o foretell_v some_o sceptic_n and_o infidel_n which_o the_o age_n we_o live_v in_o do_v too_o much_o abound_v with_o may_v be_v apt_a to_o account_v that_o a_o dream_n which_o he_o call_v a_o vision_n and_o to_o think_v the_o holy_a man_n be_v be_v scarce_o awake_v when_o he_o pretend_v to_o foresee_v these_o thing_n neither_o ought_v the_o case_n of_o temporal_a threaten_n be_v object_v here_o in_o favour_n of_o socinus_n assertion_n forasmuch_o as_o god_n himself_o have_v tell_v we_o that_o in_o all_o such_o threaten_n a_o condition_n be_v to_o be_v suppose_v though_o it_o be_v not_o always_o express_v so_o that_o though_o they_o be_v deliver_v in_o term_n seem_o absolute_a yet_o god_n without_o any_o impeachment_n of_o his_o veracity_n may_v upon_o the_o performance_n of_o the_o condition_n revoke_v they_o at_o what_o instant_n say_v god_n i_o shall_v speak_v concern_v a_o nation_n and_o concern_v a_o kingdom_n to_o pluck_v up_o and_o to_o pull_v down_o and_o to_o destroy_v it_o if_o that_o nation_n against_o who_o i_o have_v pronounce_v turn_v from_o their_o evil_n i_o will_v repent_v of_o the_o evil_a that_o i_o think_v to_o do_v unto_o they_o jer._n 18._o 7._o 8._o and_o this_o be_v the_o case_n of_o niniveh_n where_o though_o the_o threaten_a be_v seem_o peremptory_a yet_o the_o execution_n be_v suspend_v upon_o their_o repentance_n which_o be_v the_o end_n of_o the_o threaten_a but_o as_o to_o the_o punishment_n of_o the_o life_n to_o come_v the_o threaten_n of_o they_o must_v be_v absolute_a and_o unconditional_a forasmuch_o as_o there_o can_v then_o be_v no_o room_n for_o repentance_n and_o amendment_n every_o man_n state_n will_v then_o be_v final_o determine_v he_o that_o be_v filthy_a will_v be_v filthy_a still_o without_o any_o possibility_n of_o change_n or_o hope_v of_o pardon_n and_o this_o be_v that_o which_o fill_v up_o the_o measure_n of_o the_o punishment_n of_o the_o damn_a he_o that_o sin_v without_o the_o fear_n of_o god_n in_o this_o life_n shall_v be_v punish_v without_o mercy_n in_o the_o next_o and_o this_o despair_n will_v be_v that_o worm_n which_o will_v feed_v upon_o he_o to_o all_o eternity_n which_o shall_v ever_o torment_v but_o never_o devour_v the_o sinner_n who_o will_v then_o become_v a_o terror_n to_o himself_o and_o a_o everlasting_a amazement_n in_o short_a therefore_o and_o to_o sum_v up_o all_o that_o remain_v to_o be_v say_v upon_o this_o subject_n he_o that_o go_v about_o to_o weaken_v the_o force_n of_o those_o declaration_n which_o god_n have_v make_v concern_v the_o eternal_a punishment_n of_o the_o wicked_a give_v a_o dangerous_a blow_n to_o all_o reveal_v religion_n of_o which_o we_o can_v have_v no_o certainty_n if_o once_o we_o undermine_v the_o veracity_n of_o god_n which_o be_v the_o foundation_n upon_o which_o it_o be_v build_v and_o by_o which_o it_o be_v support_v but_o you_o will_v say_v the_o hope_n which_o socinus_n give_v the_o sinner_n be_v but_o very_o slender_a and_o those_o remote_a one_o which_o no_o man_n in_o point_n of_o prudence_n or_o safety_n shall_v venture_v to_o rely_v upon_o i_o confess_v i_o think_v so_o too_o but_o for_o all_o this_o sinner_n will_v be_v bold_a and_o presumptuous_a and_o you_o can_v wonder_v that_o man_n shall_v grasp_v at_o any_o thing_n lay_v hold_v upon_o any_o the_o weak_a twig_n rather_o than_o sink_v into_o hell_n but_o if_o this_o be_v not_o enough_o socinus_n can_v give_v the_o sinner_n more_o positive_a and_o direct_a encouragement_n such_o as_o will_v not_o only_o put_v and_o end_v to_o the_o torment_n of_o hell_n but_o likewise_o to_o his_o own_o vain_a and_o superstitious_a fear_n concern_v they_o and_o will_v extinguish_v those_o flame_n which_o our_o bless_a saviour_n who_o one_o will_v think_v shall_v best_o know_v have_v assure_v we_o be_v unquenchable_a but_o of_o this_o more_o hereafter_o now_o if_o what_o have_v be_v hitherto_o say_v be_v not_o sufficient_a to_o show_v the_o impiety_n and_o detestableness_n of_o these_o socinian_n notion_n he_o that_o will_v be_v at_o the_o pain_n to_o peruse_v their_o write_n or_o will_v but_o have_v the_o patience_n to_o read_v what_o be_v here_o transcribe_v out_o of_o they_o will_v find_v if_o it_o be_v possible_a yet_o great_a abomination_n than_o these_o particular_o in_o the_o account_n which_o they_o give_v of_o those_o affection_n and_o passion_n which_o they_o ascribe_v to_o god_n and_o with_o which_o indeed_o the_o scripture_n represent_v he_o to_o we_o but_o in_o a_o quite_o different_a sense_n than_o they_o be_v understand_v and_o interpret_v by_o the_o socinian_o who_o give_v we_o such_o a_o description_n of_o almighty_a god_n as_o be_v repugnant_a to_o piety_n and_o to_o the_o general_a sentiment_n not_o only_o of_o all_o sound_a christian_n but_o even_o of_o jew_n and_o many_o sober_a heathen_n who_o have_v have_v true_a and_o more_o honourable_a conception_n of_o the_o nature_n of_o god_n than_o these_o man_n furnish_v we_o with_o who_o clothe_v he_o with_o all_o the_o passion_n and_o weakness_n of_o man_n ascribe_v to_o he_o love_n and_o hatred_n mercy_n and_o compassion_n hope_v and_o desire_n joy_n and_o sorrow_n fear_n and_o repentance_n which_o they_o make_v to_o be_v true_o and_o proper_o in_o god_n though_o not_o exact_o in_o the_o same_o manner_n as_o they_o be_v in_o man_n no_o more_o than_o they_o be_v in_o other_o create_a spirit_n or_o the_o soul_n of_o man_n itself_o in_o its_o state_n of_o separation_n from_o the_o body_n that_o be_v they_o be_v there_o but_o without_o any_o motion_n or_o sensible_a alteration_n of_o the_o blood_n and_o spirit_n such_o as_o be_v to_o be_v find_v in_o man_n but_o our_o religion_n and_o right_a reason_n will_v inform_v we_o that_o these_o thing_n be_v attribute_v to_o god_n but_o it_o be_v 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d in_o a_o figurative_a sense_n represent_v thereby_o to_o we_o the_o various_a administration_n of_o god_n providence_n towards_o divers_a object_n who_o as_o they_o be_v endue_v with_o different_a quality_n and_o disposition_n so_o god_n be_v please_v to_o exercise_v different_a action_n towards_o they_o which_o action_n in_o man_n indeed_o arise_v from_o different_a principle_n and_o passion_n but_o do_v not_o so_o in_o god_n who_o amid_o the_o variety_n of_o the_o action_n and_o disposition_n of_o man_n and_o his_o deal_n suitable_o to_o they_o yet_o in_o his_o essence_n continue_v still_o the_o same_o without_o any_o perturbation_n or_o the_o least_o shadow_n of_o change_n and_o therefore_o divine_v tell_v we_o and_o particular_o limburg_n that_o these_o thing_n be_v ascribe_v to_o god_n 10._o not_o with_o respect_n to_o god_n but_o with_o a_o regard_n to_o those_o object_n about_o which_o the_o act_n of_o his_o providence_n be_v conversant_a according_a to_o that_o know_a maxim_n of_o the_o schoolman_n affectus_fw-la in_o deo_fw-la notant_fw-la effectus_fw-la and_o so_o far_o he_o be_v orthodox_n but_o a_o little_a after_o in_o the_o same_o section_n he_o overthrow_v what_o but_o just_a before_o he_o assert_v and_o so_o interpret_v and_o