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spirit_n ghost_n holy_a power_n 17,679 5 5.2026 4 true
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A85329 Londons gate to the Lords Table. Where the eldership doth sit doing their office aright, in discovering and shutting out the ignorant, prophane, and meere civill honest man : in suspending the suspected formall, legall, and antinomisticall professor, and in drawing in the weakest humble beleeving soule. In a dialogue betweene a minister of the Gospell. Alexander an ignorant prophane man. Simon a proud professor. And Matthias an humble penitent. Imprimatur Edmund Calamy. Fisher, Edward, fl. 1627-1655. 1646 (1646) Wing F995; Thomason E1213_1; ESTC R210120 58,722 302

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good I can to any of you And truly neighbour Simon I was sorry you went away the other day in such a discontented manner for I should have beene glad if you had tarried longer that wee might have had further conference together Sim. Sir I thanke you it may be we may have further conference together about those things before we part but first of all I pray you hearken to our neighbour Alexander for he hath somewhat to say unto you Min. Come neer neighbour Alexander and tell me what you have to say unto me Alex. Sir I do acknowledge that as my neighbour Simon hath said I am a very ignorant man and am now and then subject to drinke more then I should doe and to sweare now and then an Oath when I am vexed but I am sory for it afterwards Now Sir I doe desire to know the reason why I for all this may not be admitted unto the Sacrament of the Lords Supper Min. Because you being an ignorant and sinfull man must needs be an unbeleeving man and the Sacrament of the Lords Supper was not instituted and ordained for any unbeleever Alex. But Sir though I be as I have confessed an ignorant and sinfull man yet I hope I am a beleeving man for all that Min. No no that cannot be Alex. Why Sir I pray you is every ignorant and sinfull man an unbeleever Min. No not so neither for there is a twofold Ignorance and a twofold sinfulnesse that is to say there is an ignorance and sinfulnesse in part and an ignorance and sinfulnesse in whole now a man may be ignorant in part and yet have true faith in Christ for the Apostle saith concerning himselfe and other true beleevers We know but in part 1 Cor. 13. 9. yea and a man may be also sinfull in part and yet be a true beleever witnesse the same Apostle when hee saith Rom. 7. 23. I finde a law in my members rebelling against the law of my minde and bringing mee into captivity to the law of sinne But if a man bee wholly ignorant of Jesus Christ and of himselfe and of the Sacrament as for ought I yet perceive you are and wholly sinfull as by your own confession it appears you are then it is impossible hee should have true faith in Christ Alex. But Sir I hope I am not wholly ignorant of Jesus Christ nor of my selfe nor of the Sacrament Min. Well because you say so I pray you give me leave to aske you two or three questions and first of all I pray you tell mee what is Jesus Christ Alex. Why he is Gods onely Sonne who was conceived by the holy Ghost and borne of the Virgin Mary Min. But the Scripture saith That GOD hath more sonnes then one as it is written Galat. 3. 26. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus why doe you then say That Christ is Gods onely Sonne Alex. Why I say so because it is so set downe in the Apostles Creed which I am sure I say many a time and often and if it be not true me thinks the Apostles of Christ should not have so set it downe Min. And what is the holy Ghost which you say Christ was conceived by Alex. Why truly Sir the Holy Ghost I think is that good Spirit whereby we are guided and ruled when we live and walke according to Gods will and Commandments Min. And why was Christ conceived by the Holy Ghost Alex. Beleeve me Sir that is too hard a question for me to answer and it would trouble a man that hath much more knowledge then I to answer aright Min. And why do you say that Christ was borne of the Virgin Mary Alex. Why I say so because it is so said in my Creed Min. But why was it meet that he should bee borne of a Virgin rather then of another woman Alex. Truly Sir I know no other reason then that I am perswaded it was the will of God it should be so Min. Well you confesse you are a sinner therefore I pray you tell me how you came to be a sinner Alex. Why by yeelding to the Devils tentations and mine own wicked and corrupt heart as other sinners do I thinke Min. But was you born a sinner Alex. Yea I was shapen in iniquity and in sinne did my mother conceive me Min. And was you a sinner when you were first created in Adam Alex. Yea surely or else how could I be borne a sinner Min. And what doe you beleeve that Christ hath done for you Alex. Why I do verily beleeve that he died for me Min. But what warrant have you to beleeve that Christ died for you Alex. Why Christ died for sinners and I am a sinner and therefore I doe beleeve that he died for me Min. And do you think that Christ died for all men Alex. Yea indeed if he died for sinners I thinke he must needs die for all men for wee are all sinners Mi. Do you then beleeve that all men shall be saved Alex. No indeed I am not so simple to think that all men shall be saved for as I doe beleeve there is a Heaven for some so do I beleeve there is a Hell for others Min. Why do you then thinke that Christ died in vaine for them that are not saved Alex. No surely I dare not think so Min. But if he died to save them and they bee not saved must it not needs follow that he died for them in vaine Alex. Truly Sir I cannot tell how to answer that it is too hard a question and therefore I pray you aske mee no more such Min. Well then I pray you tell me what is a Sacrament Alex. Why a Sacrament is the Lords Supper Min. And why do you desire to come to the Lords Supper Alex. That I might there worship and serve the Lord. Min. Well neighbour Alexander I might aske you many other questions touching these points but your Answers to these I have already asked you are sufficient to prove that you are wholly ignorant of Christ of your selfe and of the Sacrament for though some of your answers be true yet as wee use to say As good never a whit as never the better Alex. But Sir for ought I see those that have most knowledge in Religion and can talke best of it are as bad in their lives as they that are most ignorant and therefore if I have but a good heart and a good minde as I doubt not but I have I hope I shall doe as well at the last as if I could talke and prate more Min. I but whatsoever you thinke of your selfe and whatever your hopes are the Lord tells you Prov. 19. 2. That without knowledge the heart or minde is not good and although it be possible that a man of great knowledge may have an evill heart of unbeleefe and so perish yet it is without all question that hee who hath no knowledge hath an evil
truly have you ever gone to the Lord in prayer about your sins Mat. Yea indeed Sir I have of late divers times gone privately to prayer and have besought the Lord that he would be pleased for Jesus Christs sake to pardon my former sins and give me power to overcome my present corruptions but yet alas all in vaine for they doe still remaine with me Min. But doe you beleeve that your former sins are pardoned Mat. No surely Sir I cannot beleeve that so so long as my present corruptions doe still remaine unsubdued Min. Weepe not I pray you but consider that you have gone a wrong way to worke you would have your sinnes subdued before they be pardoned whereas the Lord doth first pardon sinne and then he gives power against sinne Mat. But Sir I have thought with my selfe that as when I was a childe and had by the committing of any fault displeased my Father he would at my intreating forgive me upon condition that I did so no more but if I committed the like fault againe then he would not forgive the former but reckon with me for them both even so I did conceive the Lord would deale with me Min. But did not you tell me that you did beseech the Lord to forgive you your sins for Christ Jesus sake Mat. Yea indeed Min. And why have you asked it for Christs sake Mat. Because he hath suffered death for my sinnes Min. And doe you no● beleeve that Christ by his death hath fully satisfied the Justice of God for all your sins Mat. Yea Sir I doe beleeve he hath Min. Why then doe you not beleeve that God for his satisfaction sake hath forgiven your sins Mat. Why Sir I doe beleeve it so long as I doe continue obedient unto God in doing his Will and not transgressing his Commandments Min. And can you not beleeve it any longer then you doe so Mat. No indeed Sir Min. Why then you doe not beleeve that God pardoneth your sins for Christs sake but for your owne sake not for Christs obedience sake but for your owne obedience sake Mat. Indeed Sir I cannot tell what to say to that Min. Well neighbour Mathias as you have besought the Lord to pardon and forgive you your sinnes for Christ Jesus sake doe so still but withall beleeve that he hath done so according to your Petition yea and that absolutely and not conditionally as you have done and answerably as you doe so you shall be sure to finde and feele your sinnes mortified and subdued doe but beleeve that you are washt by the Blood of Christ from the guilt of sinne and you shall be sure to finde that you are cleansed by the Blood of Christ from the filth of sinne let a man saith Doctor Preston but beleeve the On the new Cov. the promise of pardon in the Blood of Christ and the very beleeving the pardon will be able to cleanse his heart from dead workes for that faith which doth lay hold on Christ crucified saith another godly Divine doth Dyke on the Sacr●ment p. 292. fetch a Crucifying vertue from him whereby the body of corruption is enfeebled and weakned Mat. O but Sir I feare I shall not beleeve that my sins are pardoned so long as they remaine unsubdued Min. If you will not beleeve that your sins are pardoned till they are quite subdued then will you not beleeve it whilst you live for so long as you live here you shall finde and feele some remainders of sinfull corruptions unsubdued though you doe beleeve and if you doe not beleeve you shall not have them subdued at all by the sanctifying Spirit of Christ Indeed it is possible that after much striving against your corruptions in your owne strength you may see there is no strength in you to subdue them as you would and may thereupon goe unto Christ by Prayer for grace and power to leave sinne and doe better and so live upon Christ that you may live upon your selfe I say you may goe unto Christ for power to doe your worke that so you may earne your wages and it is possible you may hereupon grow in legall righteousnesse as the stony and thorny ground seed sprung up and increased much and came neare unto maturity and yet this not be the worke of the sanctifying Spirit of Jesus Christ wherefore I beseech you goe not this way to worke doe not seeke to have the righteousnesse of sanctification infused into you before you seeke to have the righteousnesse of Justification imputed unto you and so as much as in you lyeth to goe about to pervert the Lords owne order and method Doe you not remember how I told my neighbour Simon that the Lords order and method in justifying and sanctifying a sinner is First to justifie him by imputing the righteousnesse that is inherent in Christ unto him and enabling him to apprehend it by faith and then to sanctifie him by infusing of righteousnesse into him by his Spirit and this is the method which the Prophet Micah proclaimes by way of admiration saying Who is a God like unto thee that pardoneth iniquity and passeth by the transgressions of the remnant of his heritage he retaineth not his anger for ever because he delighteth in mercy Here is the righteousnesse Micah 7. 18. of Justification and then in the next Verse he proclaimes the righteousnesse of Sanctification saying He will turne againe he will have compassion upon us he will subdue our iniquities c. And this method the Prophet David was well acquainted with and therefore in the first Verse of the 51. Psalme he beseeches the Lord According to the multitude of his mercies to blot out his transgressions and then in the tenth ver he saith Create in me a cleane heart O God and renew a right spirit within me Wherefore I beseech you againe and againe to acquit your selfe with this way and endeavour to goe on in it Mat. O Sir that I could doe so for surely I should thinke my selfe a happy man if the Lord would both pardon mine iniquities and subdue them for truly Sir I have lately had in my heart such a deale of feare terrour of the direfull displeasure of God and of Death and Hell for want of being assured that my sinnes are pardoned and I doe so hate loath and abhor those corruptions which are still in me that I verily thinke I shall never be quiet in my minde whilst they and I live together Min. Weep not I pray you except it be for joy for surely this feare is a worke of the Spirit of the Lord Jesus for ordinarily after conviction he lets into the hearts of his Elect such feares as these for although t is true there may be in a meare naturall man certaine naturall feares arising from the accusation of his naturall conscience yet they never affect his heart so as to worke a separation betwixt his heart and his sinnes but your feares doe so affect