supposeth it night be other wise where he sayeth least preaching the Gospell to others I my selfe become a cast away And though some fall away the dishonour of the foolish builder cannot be cast upon God but upon them who fall away for it standeth very well vvith the wisdome and power of God to suffer them to fall away who knowingly and wilfully depart from the Lord and will not concurre with him in the work as subordinate Instruments but resist him though her invite and call yea draw them The next thou citest is 1. Peter 15. Answ. Such as are so kept by the power of God it is through Faith but as they abide not in that power through Faith but wandâ—r from it they fall and cannot but fall away And as for Ierem. 32. 40. cited by thee it should be translated thus I will putt my fear into their hearts that they may not depart from me so Iunius and Tremellius version or not to depart from me as the Septuagint hath it Now to say that they may not depart is one thing and to say they cannot depart is another Yet where the fear of God coms so to be raised and established in the heart over all wee beleive such cannot depart but every one is not attained to that State where yet the fear of God may have some place And as touching these other Scriptures Ioh. 10. 27. 28. 29. And John 13. 1. and. 1. Iohn 2 19. they speake of those who are come to a through Regeneration who wee doe beleive can never fall away as being be got into the perfect Nature of the elect sheep and Children Nor doth it follow from this that one may be a Child of God to day and a Child of the divell to morrow for these who are once properly the children of God through a true and through regeneration can never become the children of the divel nor be cast out of Gods speciall love that hee beareth to his owne children For to end this matter thou sayest it is safer to question the truth of the graces of those that fall away then the doctrine of the perseverance of the Saints But doest thou looke upon the Quakers as having fallen away if thou doest how comes it that thou bespeakest them in thy Epistle as those who have had reall Grace saying to them did yee attaine to that knowledge of and acquaintance with God which yee have in the use of ordinances and againe yee did run well who did hinder you And againe why should they asperse these ordinances which have beene the means of their conversion Or are these words only a Ioabs kisse by vvhich thou vvouldest kisse the Quakers vvhile in the meane tyme thou hast a svvord hid under thy cloak to strike them thorough under the fifth rib But the Quakers are avvare of thee and having on the armour of God are out of thy reach In the last place Pag. 50. thou undertakest to prove that our errors as thou callest them tend to irreligiousnes and Atheism becaus they tend to take avvay the vvorship due to God but it hath beene heretofore proved that vvee deny not true VVorship but only your idolatrous superstitious worships vvhich cannot truly be called the VVorship of God Our vvay thou sayest tends to irreligiousnes becaus frequently wee goe to meat and come from it vvithout seeking a blessing or returning thanks which is to deny God a part of that Worship vvhich is due to him 1. Tim. 4. 4. 5. Ansvv. to receive the gifts and benefits of God vvith thanks giving and to vvitnes it blessed and sanctified to us by the word and prayer is ovvned by us and to knovv this so vvithout taking off the hat or using of formall speaking of vvords though it be a thing frequently used by us also tends to no irreligiousnes for it is a thing usuall among us vvhen vvee sit dovvne to eat to vvait upon the Lord for some time that vvee may feel his presence and knovv ourselves stated in his fear to vvhich the blessing isâ— and as vvee there stand if any outvvard expressions be required of any then in Gods fear they may utter them and this is to knovv the blessing indeed and to be in the place that is blessed But for people that are conversing out of Gods fear stated in a Light airy Spirit not only many tymâ—s laughing and scoffing but some times even blaspheming presently so soone as the meat cometh to clap off their hats and speake a fevv vvords in a custome and so soone as they have done fall to their former vvork againe is not this Atheisme and irreligiousnes for if such did think of God aright and knovv vvhat it vvere to fear him they vvould be far from addressing themselves in such postures unto him neither could they be so impudent as to expect a blessing from him while they stand in that condition to which the curse is annexed In the second place Pag. 51. Thou sayest Doth not the taking men off from prayer tend to Irreligiousnes and Atheisme Now you teach wee must not pray in private nor in families without an impulse therefore Answ. This is no sound argument to take men off from prayer tends to irreligiousnes is granted but to say that a man cannot nor ought not to pray without the Spirits drawing and motion which you commonly name by impulse a vvord vvhich common people doe not understand hath no such tendency or that it takes any off from prayer truly so called is denied For hath that a bad tendencie which take's men off from such Prayers as are abomination are not true Prayers but hypocritical and deceitful As all such Prayers are that are performed without the help of the Spirit Wee say whosoever can pray to the Lord indeed let them pray wee are not to forbid them but that any can pray without the Spirit that wee deny according to 1. Cor. 14. 15. I will pray with the Spirit c. And Rom. 8. 26. likewise also The Spirit helpeth your infirmities for wee know not what wee should pray for as wee ought Now if wee know not what to pray for without the Spirit how can wee pray without it Paul durst not adventure upon this duty without the assistance of the Spirit yea hee said no man could say that Jesus is the Lord but by the holy Ghost but here an arrogant generation will needs by praying without it which yet is not Prayer and such families where this only is used cannot be truly said to call upon God while such truely may be said so to doe that wait upon the Lord and stand in his fear and bring forth the fruits of righteousnes though they be not so much in the external signification of words which also at times is found in our families as the Lord requireth it and giveth utterance And whereas thou sayest That thou beleivest it will be found that some of us for the space of a whole Yeare have
that I deny for on the contrary Conversion presupposeth having light and grace by which and to which men are to be converted So that before a man be converted hee must have Saving grace in order to convert him even as the being healed of a wound presupposeth the plaister or salve but not on the contrary for the application of the plaister presupposeth not the being healed But whereas thou sayest what need is there of his turning when men are in this state already thou misrepresentest us for wee doe not say that all men are in a state of light and grace to be in a state of grace is to stand in grace which the wicked doe not stand in yet this hinders not but that grace is communicated unto them whereby they may come to a state or standing in it while the day of their visitation remains Againe thou undertakest to prove that all men have not sufficient light two wayes first that all men have not the Spirit of God jud 19. to which I answer that there may be a sufficient light in men who may be said after a certaine manner not to have the Spirit as being such vvho though the Spirit be in them to invite call and dravv them unto God yet resist his dravvings and so separate themselves from it so continuing untill the day of Gods visitation unto them come to an end concerning vvhom it is true that then they have not the Spirit so much as to invite and call them unto God or to give unto them the least tender of his love And though all have not the spirit bringing forth the fruits thereof in them to vvit love mecknes gentlenes c. as no vvicked persons have yet all even the vvicked in a certaine day have the Spirit in them to reprove and convince yea to call upon them and strive vvith them in order unto their Conversion for the Spirit of God reproves the world of sin John 19. 8. and Acts. 7. 50. Yee stiffe necked and uncircumcised yee doe alwayes resist the holy Ghost and Gen. 6. My spirit shall not always strive vvith or in man and many more to that purpose For a Second reason of its insufficiency thou sayest it reveales not Iesus Christ a saviour in respect it gives not a discoverie of his incarnation passion resurrection c. Citing 1. Cor. 2. 2. and from this place thou wouldst inferr that the Apostle preferred the knowledge of Christ as crucified outwardly to all other knowledge Answer Though wee willingly acknowledge that to know him even as he did outwardly come and was crucified c. Is a Good knowledge and of great profit and comfort to them who believe yet wee deny that the knowledge of him as outwardly crucified is the best of all other knowledge of him or to be preferred to all other wayes of knowing him nor does that Scripture 1. Cor. 2. 2 prove it For Paul is not speaking there of Christ as crucified outwardly in Iudea but of him as hee was inwardly crucified in the Corinthians when Paul first came unto them to preach the Gospell as the words doe plainly import being rightly translated out of the Greek for I determined not to know any thing 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 i. e. in you but Iesus Christ and him crucified This was the Apostle his care and travell in his ministrie to declare and hold forth unto the Corinthians and other gentiles Iesus Christ who was crucified in them in his suffering seed even that seed of light and truth which suffered and was crucified in them under the burden of their transgression in the time of their unbeliefe and to preach salvation and deliverance from sin and wrath through Iesus Christ according to his weak and low appearance in them in the suffering seed through their beleving in him and closing with him as manifest therein according to which hee said to the Galathians that Iesus Christ was evidently set befor their eyes crucified in them 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and Ephes. 3. v. 8. hee said this grace was given unto him to preach 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 i. e. in the gentiles the unsearcheable riches of Christ parallel to which is that of the Apostle 1. Col. 27. for so should all these places be translated which riches of Christ lay hid and wrapped up in them in the seed of the Kingdome which was the least of all seeds even as the riches and fruitfulnes of a tree lyes hid in the seed of it which coms to be brought forth as the seed takes root and gets liberty to grow up unto the due stature so for this the Apostle laboured that people might know Christ in them and might embrace him in their hearts that so hee might be formed in them Gal 4. 19. And they might know him to lâ—ve in them and his life to rule in them which is more then to know him as outwardly crucified and indeed none know the weight and greatnes of vvhat hee suffered outvvardly but vvho knovv him first as hee hath suffered in them and suffer and become crucified vvith him so as to have a Sympathy fellovv feeling vvith him even as the members suffer and are pained vvhen any thing hurts the head or heart And vvhereas thou sayest you see the Apostle judges the knowledge of Christ crucified to be that one thing necessary Wee deny that the knovvledge of his being outvvardly crucified is that one thing necessary for people must knovv him in them Know yee not that Christ is in you unles yee be reprobats 1. Cor. 13. 5. As for thy charge upon the Quaker saying with what face can you blame me for being in darknes seeing your opinion is that all men have sufficient light in them It is frivolous for though the light vvhich is sufficient be in thee thy opposition to the light blinds thee and hinders thee from seing light a man may have a candle burning in his house but if hee put it under a bushell it vvill not give him the sight of things in the house That there is no other name under heaven wherby any can be saved but the name of Iesus Christ is granted but that name is another thing then the bare expression or declaration and knovvledge of vvords or things as with out becaus his name is said to be a strong tower wherunto the righteous fly and are safe vvhich is another thing then the bare nameing of his death and crosse vvithout for many unrighteous plead a right to that and can fly unto it as vve see by the example of the Papists To vvhom it seems yee vvill needs joine your selves in this matter vvho say that the outvvard naming of Christ and signing vvith the crosse puts avvay Devils and that vvee are of another mind then you in this matter is much to our advantage becaus vvee knovv the inward is the maine thing and vvher it is enjoyed the efficacy benefit of the outvvard can not be vvanting though
Scriptures cited by thee for all these Scriptures speake of works with a limitation as Rom. 3. 20 by the deeds of the law there shall no fllesh be justified and Gal. 2. 16. knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law here the works of the law are excluded but not the works of Christinus which are not of the law for the law or first Covenant was weak and gave not strength to them who wer under it to fulfill righteousnes but these who were in Christ Iesus witnessed the righteousnes of the law fulfilled in them who walked not after the flesh but after the spirit And as for that other Scripture Tit. 3. 5. though it exclude works of mens doing as of themselves yet it excluds not all works nor inward righteousnes of Christ but expressely includs it according to his mercy he saved us by the washing of regeneration and renewing of the holy holy Ghost thou cauldest not have brought a more plaine proof against thy selfe for thou citest this Scripture as holding forth justification Now the Apostle sayeth he saved us according to his mercy by the washing of regeneration and renewing of the holy Ghost and is not the washing of regeneration and renewing of the holy Ghost a vvork which comprehends many particular works of the Spirit of Christ in the Saints And is not regeneration and the renewing of the holy Ghost a righteousnes wrought in us How is it then that thou art not ashamed to charge us with rank Popery for saying wee are justified by a righteousnes wrought in us seeing the very Scripture cited by thee is expresly for it May wee not pertinently returne these words upon thee which thou misappliest to us Oh tell it not in Gath publish it not in the Streets of Askelon c. That a man who pretends to teach others aright in the matter of justification hath so confounded himselfe that to prove that justification is not by a righteousnes wrought vvithin bring a Scripture which speaks expresly of a righteousnes vvithin to wit that of regeneration and renovation by which wee are saved And if any should say the vvords doe not say vve are justified by the vvashing of regeneration and renevving of the holy Ghost but vvee are saved therby as intending sanctification and not justification I answer This helps not the Author out of the ditch for he brings this Scripture forth applying it to the matter of justification But againe if these vvords exclude all works generally and vvithout any limitation then they exclude all works vvhich are vvrought by the Spirit of Christ from sanctification as if men vvere sanctified by no vvorks of the Spirit of Christ within them or if it be said that vvorks of our ovvne doing selfe-righteousnes are only excluded from having place in our sanctification but not the vvorks vvrought in and by the Spirit of Christ then I say vvhy may not the same distinction have place in all these other Scriptures vvhich say vvee are not justified by vvorks c. and indeed in all these Scriptures it holds true no lesse concerning sanctification then concerning justification As thus by the deeds of the Law there shall no flesh be sanctified knovving that a man is not sanctified by the works of the Law c. but it vvere vaine to infer from this that men at Sanctified by no vvorks of righteousnes wrought in them by the Spirit of Christ therefore it is as vaine to infer that men are justified by no vvorks of righteousnes wrought in them by his Spirit Pag 22. Thou sayest wee can shift of popery with this that they are not our good works which deserve and merit justification but the good works of Christs working in us yea I say wee doe justly cast of the accusation of Popery as having the expresse testimony of Scripture that wee are justified by works to wit such as are wrought in Christ and by him in us Iames. 2. 24. you see then that a man is justified by works and not by faith only compared with Tit. 3. 5. before-mentioned and as for the Papists works by which they seeke to be justified wee doe not acknowledge them to be such works as whereby or wherein any can be justified And vvhereas thou pleadest that the good vvorks of Christs vvorking in us are ours citing Isai. 26. 12. Matth. 5. 16. c. Wee grant it but they are not ours in that signification as vvhere it is said hee that is entred into his rest hath ceased from his owne works Hebr. 4. 10. There are works which are so ours that they are not the works of the sanctifiing renevving Spirit of Christ in us and such are works both of open unrighteousnes and of selfe fained righteousnes vvhich has no better root to bring them forth then mans ovvne will and Spirit and by such vvorks vvee deny to be justified yea vve deny all such vvorks and the justification by them and desire to stand in a continual denyal unto them and forbearance from them But againe there are such vvorks vvhich are so ours that they are Christs also vvho vvorks them in us and by us and are ours by his free grace and by such works vvee affirme men are justified Pag. 23. Thou pleadest That men cannot be justified by any works of Christs working in them because they are imperfect And for their imperfection thou instancest 1. Faith becaus it is said O yee of litle faith why doubt yee Answ. By this thou mayst as well exclude faith from justification every way as vvorks if it vvere granted that their faith vvas imperfect but that Scripture nor no other speaks not of imperfect faith but of little faith Novv little Faith is perfect in the measure of it as a little Gold is perfect Gold And though the Disciples had doubting yet the faith vvas not the doubting nor vvas it made impure by it for the least measure of true faith can never be defiled othervvise it could not purify the heart it is like the fire vvhich cannot be defiled vvith the impurities of those things it vvorks upon And as for the Disciples at that time as they vverein part justified or approved by the Lord in relation to their faith so were they reproved and not justified of him in relation unto or becaus of their doubting But this Scripture nor none other provs not that faith was or is alwayes accompanied with doubting Abraham beleived Gods promise without doubting and was strong in the faith giving glory to God and it was imputed to him for Righteousnes Rom. 4. 20. 21. 22. And said James His faith was perfected by works Chap 2. 22. For that which is perfect in a lesse measure can be further perfected in a greater Secondly Thou pleadest that knowledge is imperfect becaus the Apostle saith VVe know but in part 1 Cor. 13. 9 But the Apostle does not say our knovvledge is imperfect or impure Wee may knovv a thing in part and yet that
For notwithstanding the words of the Quaker are of thy owne framing and that they lye patent before thee yet thou hast not had so much honesty in thy answer as to subsume them aright The Quaker sayes I use not flattering titles and give thee not heathenish salutations and bowings least I should sin and be found an Idolater in answer to which thou beginnest with a false subsumption saying thou wonderest that he should call salutations and bowings heathenish and Idolatrous Indeed it is no strange thing that thou and others misrepresent us and belye us in repeating our words at a distance when in this manner of writing thou canst not truly repeat those words which thou placest for ours when they be just written before thee Is it not one thing to say that Salutations that are heathenish or heathenish salutations cannot be used without sin and idolatrie and another thing to say that salutations and bowings are heathenish and idolatrous Who is so blind as not to see here a vast difference As to the first who dares deny it to be a truth that vvill offer to call himselfe a Christian to vvit that salutations and bovvings that are heathenish cannot be used vvithout idolatrie and sin But as to the other that Salutations and bovvings are heathenish and idolatrous being taken in generall vvas never said nor judged by the Quakers and therefore to charge them vvith it is utterly false and a lye for such salutations as Christ commands and the Apostles practised the Quakers dearly ovvne and frequently use and find in them great refreshment becaus there through the life flovves and is communicated from one vessell to another but such salutations thou art ignorant of and of the life that is there through communicated vvhich bears testimonie against all that is heathenish and idolatrous and leads out of it and therefore in thy dark mind vvouldst from thence plead for the customary salutations of the heathen as appears by the proofs thou bringest vvherein thy folly is very much manifested Christ sayest thou commanded his disciples vvhen they entred into a house to salute it hee did so and what more And if the house be vvorthy their peace shall be upon it to vvit the peace through the salutation intimated or offered becaus they brought to that house the tender of the Gospell and glad tydings vvhich vvas a good salutation but vvhat vvouldst thou inferr from that that vve ought to doe of our hats one to another a thing vvhich they never did by vvhose example thou vvouldst presse us to doe it and it is knowne that it is a thing unusuall in that part of the world to this day That other proof alledged from Paul saluting the Churches makes as litle if not far lesse to the purpose Paul in his Epistles who was at a great distance vvisheth grace and peace to the Churches from God the Father and the Lord Iesus Christ Ergo wee ought to take of our hats Can there be any thing more ridiculous is this the great esteeme yee put upon the scriptures to take the salutations of the blessed Apostle Paul signified by the motions of the Holy Spirit vvhich vvas the very blessing of Paul to the Churches or rather of the Spirit through him for to prove your doing off hats one of the corrupt customs of this vvorld Is not this to make a mock of the Scripturs and a stretching them to plead for that against vvhich is the naturall tendencie of their testimonie Next thou givest us Abrahams practise but every practise of Abraham is not a rule to us nor to you either the like may be said of that of Moses Though Moses did obeisance to his father in law that makes nothing against us far lesse his kissing of him and asking him of his vvelfare both vvhich things the Quakers deny not Thou acknovv ledgest that religious vvorship given to the Creature is idolatrie What is Religious Worship but that vvhich is given to God and is not the bovving of the body and uncovering of the head the signification of your Worship to God And if yee give the same to the Creature also where is the difference for in the external signification it is not distinguished unles it be said to be the intention which if it be wee shall have the Papists pleading the same for their adoration of images and the relicts of the saints And truly your being found in these things gives them advantage in that matter That courtesie and Christianity are not repugnant vvee deny not and therefore for Christians to be Courteous one to another is very fit vvhich indeed that the Apostle commands wee acknowledge But that Courtesie consists in taking off hats and bovving to one another that rests for thee to prove In the next place to prove the indifference of using the plurall number instead of the singular to one person thou sayest thou art very confident the Kingdome of God consists not in vvords so am I too yet I strange thou shouldst say so considering thy principles for vvhat is all your preaching but words yea vvhat is the Scripture it selfe I meane that vvhich yee have of it to vvit the letter but words And seing the very Gospell according to you is but a company of words being a declaration of vvhat past many hundred years agoe hovv has thy zeale here to oppose the Quakers made thee forget thy selfe in this matter Thou sayest that to vvhich the singular number is agreeable the plurall may be applyed to without making a lye The proofs alleged for that be Matth. 23. 37. Luk. 22. 31. 3 Epistle of Iohn vers 13 evince nothing in this matter for the Contexts being rightly considered vvill clearly make out that the vvords are not applyed to one single person only exclusively of others and that of Luke is to a flock comprehending the disciples to vvhom hee vvas speaking just before but there is no confounding of the number vvhere one single person is only spoken to and that vvithout understanding of any more And though indeed it vvere good that the difference vvere not greater yet the differences in these things evidence that there be differences in greater matters And in respect that yee are estranged from the principle that leads out of corruption in all things therefor yee cannot see the vveight that is in these things vvhich is more then yee are avvare of Pag. 3. Thou seemâ—t to take great advantage of these words Heretofore I walked according to my light and the same I doe still and while in the integritie of my heart I walked in the way thou art now in I dare not say but God countenanced me in it Here thou makest a great stirr as if thou hadst brought the Quaker to a great Dilemma But to passe by thy examining of the weak objection which thou makest in the Quakers behalfe which I beleive was never alledged by any of them unto thee as that wherwith they either only or cheifly defend
the distinct knovvledge of it be not had The knovvledge of Christ his crosse within vvhich is his povver that crucifies unto the vvorld is more then the knovvledge of the outward and to knovv Christ after the Spirit is more then to knovv him after the flesh as is clear from the vvords of Paul though I have knovvne Christ after the fllesh yet hence forth know I him so no more The Apostle Peter knevv vvell that God vvas not so narrovv hearted as yee vvould have him to be therefore hee said that hee had seene that with God there was no respect of persons but in every nation hee that loveth righteousnes and feareth God is accepted of him You your selves dare not deny but that some infants and deaf persons are saved by Christ vvithout the externall knovvledge If you say they are not in a capacity to knovv these things I ansvver so neither are many of the Gentiles vvho never had these things revealed unto them But if the externall knowledge be necessary to the one vvhy not to the other And it thou sayest that some infants are in the decree of election I aske at thee or any of you vvho of you has seene the decrees of God and hovv knovvest thou that none of the Heathen are inrolled into them And vvheras thou sayest Is not the application of Christ his blood and sufferings necessary to them that would profit and get good thereby For though the blood of Christ be a healing plaister yet the plaister must be applyed ere the sore can â—e healed Now what application can the soul make of Christs blood who knowes no such thing the blood of Christ is applyed by faith but true faith is not a blind faith Answer It is granted but this blood is knovvne and felt within to wash and purge the conscience for Christ as hee is within is not without his blood which is spirituall even the pure blood of the vine and is that wine of the kingdome which is inwardly felt to wash and to refresh which hee givs to them who know not distinctly the outward sheding of the blood as it was many hundred years agoe and which many are ignorant of who have heard much of the outward shedding of his blood but know not the blood as shed and poured forth in them to sprinkle their consciences from dead works for it is a mistery sealed up from all who stand in opposition to his light within But there marke thy owne words The plaister must be applyed ere the sore can de healed Must not then saving grace be applyed ere the soul be converted or healed Contrary to thy other assertion Pag. 7. that having of saving light and grace presupposeth conversion that is healing As for thy deceitful insinuation to render us odious That if our principles were generally owned the nations in one age or two would be overspread with as palpable darknes as the heathen nations at this day are Seeing it has no just ground wee returne it upon thee as false and malicious for It is the owning the light other principles held by us therein which will make these nations and all others who owne it and them to overflow with the true and saving knowledge of God and Christ but so long as they follow such blind guides as thy selfe who oppose the light darknes will cover them as at this day notwithstanding all their professions and confessions of him while in works they deny him and remaine estranged from his light in them The reason thou addest is blind and unreasonable For according to you thou sayest the light within us is a sufficient teacher take heed to this and there needs no more For wee say the light within must not only be taken heed unto but beleived and obeyed and walked in which who doe it will lead them to read and make use of the Scriptures and will lead them to the assemblies of Gods people and to heare and receive the ministrie of those whom God sends yea to love and esteem them greatly for their works sake and it will lead them to owne Christ and the benefits of his death and sufferings in the outward and give them an understanding how to conceive and use a right those things as opportunity is given them Pag. 10. Thou sayst Christ is a light who communicateth light to all men but where find you that the light communicated to all men is Christ himselfe wee must not confound the light giver with the Light or enlightening given Answ. Wee doe not confound them but wee must not divide or separate them as thou and you doe for where the light or enlightening from Christ is there is Christ himselfe hee is not separated from it but is in it and with it wee must not be so grosse as to conceive that Christ enlightens men in such a way of outward distance as the body of the Sun being so many thousand miles above the clouds enlightens our naturall eyes but comes not neare us otherwise then by its influence and rayes for Christ is near unto every one no lesse then his influence for in him wee live and move and have our being And this nearenes of his unto all men in a day is more then that generall presence in respect vvhereof hee abides vvith all the works of his hands for as much as hee is in them to enlighten them that they may beleive Joh. 1. 9. compared vvith 7. Verse Pag. 11. Here because thou canst not deny but that there is light in all men thou sayest it is commonly called the light of nature and that some remainders of knowledge and principles of good remaine in man after the ruins of Gods Image in him as when a city is demolished some foundation of houses doe still romaine But how is this consistent with what you say to wit that there is no good thing at all in men unconverted and that man fell wholly from God and that Adams fall was not in part but wholly as to all things that are good And that wee derive nothing from him but that which is corrupted and defiled But the Scriptures testimony is plaine that since the fall the free gift or grace of God is come upon all unto justification of life It is not said justification is come upon all but the free gift or grace of God is come upon all unto justification so that all may be justified if they did close with it Rom. 5. 8. And God so loved the VVorld Iohn 3. 16. And this is the condemnation of the VVorld that Light is come into it Vers. 19. Which is after the fall And what ever any may conceive that remained in man of the Image of God after the fall that could not have any povver to convince man of evil or enable him to doe any thing that is good if it were not visited and influenced a new from the fountain of Light and Life but it would remaine as a thing without all Life
their tâ—stimony but by the inward testimony of the spirit Calvin after hee has said all that can be said of outward wayes at last concludes the only certaine way to know it in deed is by the testimony of the spirit l. 1. c. 7. Sect. 4. of his Inst. as to the course that Paul tooke with the obstinate Jewes it was very commendable becaus they said they beleived the Scriptures and seemed to esteeme them much though they opposed the truth witnessed to in the Scriptures so that it is evident that some great pretenders to the Scriptures can make a cloak of them to deny Christ himselfe as yee doe at this day And though Paul tooke that course with the Iewes yet wee see hee tooke no such course with the Athenians to whâ—m he cited no Scripture nor endeavoured to perswade them by it but told them they were the off spring of God and wished them to feel after him who was not afar of from every one of them thirdly sayest thou the saints had recourse to the Scriptures in the examination of Doctrines So have wee too as befor has beene declared but that will not prove the Scripture is the rule Pag. 16. Fourthly thou sayest wee ar commanded to search the Scripturs Iohn 5. 39. Answer The words may be translated you search the Scriptures as Pasor translateth them But wee doe acknowledge the Scriptures are to be searched but are not to be rested in which was the Iewes fault who vvould not come to Christ to get life thinking to have eternal life in the Scriptures vvhich Christ cheks them for and that the Scriptures are profitable for doctrine correction instruction vvee owne and are commended for their dignity and authority but they are thus profitable onely to such as come to the Spirit to guide and direct them hovv to make use of them else they may prove an occasion of stumbling as they did to the Pharisees hence it is said that the man of God may be perfect mark the man of God not every Man novv no man can be truely called the man of God but hee that is led by the Spirit of God Next thou vvouldst undertake to prove that it is not the mind of God that the Spirit within men should be the Rule in which thou fallest very short as appears by saying that Christ made use of the Scripture to prove himselfe c and not the light within And did these Jewes receive him who had the Scriptures did they not reject him and why because they hearkned not unto the inward voice and testimony of the Father concerning him and this was the testimony which hee said was greater then that of Iohn though Iohn was the greatest of the Prophets and those vvho beleeve had the witnesse in themselves 1 Ioh. 5. 10. but to thâ— unbeleiving Iewes hee said yee have neither heard his voice nor seene his shape Secondly Thou sayest there is an expresse command to try the Spirits 1. Ioh. 4. 1. Answ. but is there any word there of trying them by the Scripture Cannot the Spirits be tryed by the Spirit of God or is there any better way to try them How tryed Peter the spirit of Ananias and Saphirah And is not the tryall and discerning of Spirits the priviledge of the Saints now And how is it a peculiar priviledge to saints unles it be done by the Spirit of God For the Scriptures any can make use of the Apostle Iohn writing to the Saints concerning seducers points them to the Anoinâ—ing which remained in them and did teach them all things and by this they did know all things and consequently Spirits 1. Iohn 2. 20. 26. Thirdly thou sayest undoubtedly there are strong delusions c. Ans. there are so indeed But was there any more strongly deluded then the Pharisees Yet how much did they lay claime to the Scriptures how came they then to be deluded who wer so skilled in the Scriptures according to the letter of them and the poor People who were not so skilled so rightly to hit the matter And as to thy question what way shall the delusion be tryd if you neglect the VVord of God and look only within Answ As for the VVord of God nor yet the Scriptures testimony wee neglect not but what way thinkest thou shall the delusion be tryed If you neglect the Spirit within and look only upon the letter and words vvithout you if the Delusion be strong in the heart will it not twine and vvrest the Scriptures without to cause the Scriptures to seeme for it and suppose a man be deluded with a Spirit of delusion what can help him but God whose Spirit searcheth all the deepest things of Sathan and can and doth dscover them to those vvho love to be undeceived and are faithfull to God in what they certainly know And though the same deluding spirit who deceived first may deceive over againe that makes nothing against the insufficiency of the Spirit to discover the delusion but if a man be deceived either first or againe he is to blame himself for his defect in not being duely watchfull and faithfull in what is discovered to him of God truly and certainly Consider the tendency of thy argument which strikes not only at the certainty of the Saints faith now from the Spirit within and the assurance of knowledge there from but also strikes at the very certainty and assurance of all the Faith and knowledge the holy Prophets and men of God had from the Spirit vvithin when Seripture was not Wee are in no greater hazzard to be deceived now then they were then You that set up the Scripture as your only rule the many sects of you what jangling and contesting is among you while one pleads for his sence and another for his which all proceeds from their wandring from the Spirit that gave forth the Scriptures And as to satisfying of others wee refer recommend them to the same Spirit in them to receive their satisfaction from that which only can and will satisfy them who wait for it in singlenes Pag. 18. And whereas thou sayest the Saints are led and guided by the Spirit but it is according to the Scriptures So say wee too But it doth not therefore follow that the Spirit hath so tyed and limited himselfe to the use of the scriptures as alwayes to use them in every particular step of his guiding the Saints the Spirit is free to use or not use the scriptures at his pleasure and guideth the Saints in many particular steps of their life for which there is no particular scripture either to approve or disprove them in As for the more sure VVord of Prophesy wee grant it is the rule but deny that that more sure VVord is the Scriptures but it is that VVord in the heart from which the Scriptures came and in and by which the Scriptures are to be interpreted and is it not grosse blindnes darknes to say the Scripture is more
no commission to baptise vvith water is clear from that of Paul vvhere he sayeth I thank God I baptised none of you but Crispus and Gajus and the houshold of Stephanus c for said he I was not sent to baptise but to preach the Gospell 1. Cor. 1. 16. 17. Novv it is not questioned but his Commission vvas as large as any of the rest for he himselfe said that hee vvas not inferiour to the cheifest of the Apostles but that hee thereby denied hee vvas sent to administer the holy Spirit vvhich is the baptisme of Christ is absurd to think for a Fifth Reason thou sayest it is the will of Christ that this ordinance should continue and abide in the Church because hee promised to be with his Ministers to the end of the VVorld To which I answer that this promise related to the Baptisme of the Spirit which is Christs Baptisme is granted but that it related to the Baptisme of water is denied for hee was with Paul who yet professed hee was not sent to baptise with water And whereas some give their meaning to Paul his words that hee was not sent only or principally to baptise with water this is an addition to the Scripture Words for which they can shew no sufficient ground And if men will take a liberty to adde to Scripture Words from their owne Spirit they may wrest the Scriptures to defend the worst of opinions as when it is said Thou shalt not bow downe to them nor VVorship them one should put this meaning upon it thou shall not bow downe to them not Worship them principally and therefore would averre that graven Images may be worshiped this were a most perverse abusing of Scripture Sixthly Thou sayest Thoâ—e who cast off this ordinance doe what in them lyeth to rob themselves of all the excellent ends and uses of it which are held forth in these Scripture expressions Ans. I hat such who cast off the Baptisme of Christ by the Spirit may incurre that hazard it is granted but that any such thing will follow from the not useing of water is denyed as shall appear by examining the Scripturs cited The first is Act. 2. 28. Repent and be baptised every one of you for the remission of your sins Ans. Here is no mention made of outward VVater and Repentance and Remission of sins may be and are found without it and where it is both these are frequently wanting But though it should be understood of outward water it is spoke but to particulars and is no universal command The Second is 1 Pet. 3. 21. The like figure whereunto even baptisme doth also save us But the very follovving vvords doe give an ansvver to that and clear the meaning not to be of Water baptisme saying Not the putting away the filth of the flesh but the answer of a good conscience towards God by the resurrection of Iesus Christ. The Third is Act. 22. 16. Arise and be baptised and wash away thy sins But that a being baptised vvith vvater is a vvashing avvay of sin thou canst not from hence prove seeing the contrary is abundantly vvitnessed and suppose Water-baptisme vvere here to be understood it being but spoke to one infers no universal command The Fourth is Ephes. 5. ver 26. That hee might sanctifie and cleanse it with the washing of water But by vvater cannot here be understood outvvard VVater but that of the VVord and Spirit for the next Verse speaks of presenting it vvithout spot or vvrinkle Which the outvvard VVater cannot doe see the like place Iohn 3. 5. Vnlesse a man be borne of the vvater and of the Spirit hee cannot enter into the Kingdome of God Novv if by Water here vvere to be understood outvvard VVater it vvould inferre that VVater baptisme is absolutely necessary to Salvation vvhich thou sayest thou canst not affirme vvith Papists Lastly thou citest Gal. 3. 7. For as many as have beene baptized into Christ have put on Christ But VVater Baptisme cannot be here understood because many vvho are baptised vvith VVater never put on Christ nor bear his Image but the Divells and are found doing the Divels vvorks So that none of these Scriptures prove the VVater Baptisme to be of continual necessity in the Church for it being but a figure it vvas to give place to that one Baptisme Eph. 4. 5. And vvhereas it is said by some that the Water Baptisme and the Baptisme by the Spirit is but one because of that agreement betvvixt the signification of the Water and the Spirit thereby signified this is a vvresting of this Scripture as much as if one should say rhat all the tipes figures and shadowes of the old Testament were one with the substance signified by them and consequently that these Tipes are all now to be upheld and used whereas indeed the coming of the Substance ends the figures among which are the divers Baptisms for so should the place be translated Heb. 9. 10. which were imposed untill the time of Reformation but are no longer binding since the Reformation is come Thou endest this matter vvith asserting That thou canst safely say that the Spirit of God concurring with and blessing this ordinance It is a profitable meane to further our Salvation but if so be it be no ordinance of Christ as heretofore is proved then wee cannot expect that the Spirit will concurre with it but indeed that hee is provoked by it considering the abuses in your administration of it as First in administring it to Infants for which yee have no command nor example in Scripture Next in causing ignorant people to promise and engage before God that the Children shall forsake the Divel the VVorld and the Flesh while they themselves be slaves to all the three and many more abuses as that vvhereby yee pretend to inroule Children as Members of the Church of God which is pure and holy it being oftentimes an occasion of excesse and drunkennesse and is indeed rather like an inrolling under the Divels banner seeing it is for most part accompanied with doing his work therefore it is so farre from being hazardous to contemne such an ordinance of man that it cannot be but hurtfull to continue in it In the Third place Pag. 39. thou comest to prove that the Lords Supper so called is an Ordinance of Iesus Christ For which thou bringst as a First Reason that Jesus Christ was the Author and Ordainer of it but that proves not That it was to be of perpetual continuance Nor thy Second Reason for though the Disciples were bid doe it in remembrance of him they were not bid doe it alwayes Neither will Act. 2. ver 42. which thou bringest as a Third Proofe serve thy turn for by comparing it vvith Verse 46. it is evident that their breaking of bread was their ordinary eating for it is said they continued daily with one accord in the Temple and breaking bread froâ— house to house did eat their meat with gladness and
his outward coming for which you have no ground to say that hee bid them observe it till his outward coming so many hundred years after for the Scripture speakes nothing so but thus yee shew forth my death till I come now wee say hee did come according to his promise in a Spirituall and inward way of appearance in their hearts feeding them with the heavenly food and refreshment of his owne life and Spirit which is the substance and concerning this coming hee spoke unto them in many places particularly Iohn 14. 18. I will not leave you fatherlesse I will come unto you Yet a little while and the world seeth me not but yet shall see me and ver 23. If any man love me hee will keep my word and my Father will love him and wee will come unto him and make our abode with him which coming was inward according to vers 20 you in me and I in you And those that witnessed him thus come needed not outward bread and wine to remember them of him for his owne Spirit would bring all things to their remembrance they need not looke upon the figure and shadovv who have the Substance Paul said wee looke not upon things which are visible neither will Gods condescendence to their weaknesse who were but newly redeemed from out of a masse of heathenish superstitions prove a command or a rule to the whole Church or a warrant for any now to be found in the Administration thereof to hold up the outward figure doe cloake themselvs by shutting out and denying the Spirituall appearance of Christ as hee doth immediatly reveal himselfe in his children in whom he has made manifest the substance which ends the shadow For an Eighth Reason thou sayest that persons vvho cast off this ordinance are their soules great enemies for they stand in the vvay of their soules Spirituall good in that this is a Spiritual nourishing strengthening ordinance where Spirituall food is offered and delicate meat and drink for strengthening believers in their journey to heaven To vvhich I ansvver that those vvho neglect and despise having fellovvship and communion vvith God and laugh and scoffe at the usefull and necessary duety of vvaiting upon the Lord in silence vvherein his children feele their soules nourished with the Body and blood of Christ and with spirituall Manna which descends from heaven and is distilled into their soules not only once or twice a year which are the seasons wherein that which thou termst Spirituall food is ministred among you but daily and hourely by the fresh incoms of life such indeed are to their souls great enemies though they be sticking to the performance of some externall ceremonies wherein in former times God in condescendence to some becaus of the simplicitie of their hearts appeared and yet even then frequently as much and more at other tymes But now the Sun is set upon those who will needs be upholding the shadovv in opposition to the substance therefore their table is become polluted and may more truely be termed the table of devils then the communion of the Body of Christ where a mixt multitude of all sorts of wicked persons living out of Gods fear sit downe together being seemingly in words excommunicated from approaching by the Preacher and yet presently admitted to it by the same and to turne away from such an Ordinance so called is no sin nor hurt but all who become obedient to the light of Christ in them will find it their place to forsake it as being such an ordinance vvhich the Apostle said touch not tast not handle not vvhich is all to perish vvith the using In the fourth place Pag 41 thou vvilt prove that the ministerie of the vvord is an ordinance of Iesus Christ becaus first Christ appointed Ministers and Pastors to be in his Church But this cannot be asserted in opposition to the Quakers vvho grant the same And vvhy citest thou Eph. 5. 11. and. 1. for 12. 8. which if they prove the continâ—ance of Pastors and teachers prove also the continuance of Prophets Evangelists and Apostles vvhich yee deny As to the second Reason that the Ministrie is not common to all but that there be some Pastors and teachers is also ovvned by us Yet that hinders not but that any at a time may speake vvhen the Saints are mett together as the Lord moves by his Spirit according to 1. Cor. 14. 31. for it is one thing to be particularly called to the Ministrie and another to be moved to speak at a particular time vvhich distinction that it vvas usuall among the Apostles in the Primitive times is easilie observed in the forenamed Chapter For a Third Reason thou sayest whom God calleth to the Ministrie he doth it either immediatly without the intervention of men or mediatly by men authorised for that purpose but for this thou bringst no proofe neither art thou able to make out that ever God called any under the nevv covenant so mediatly to their Ministrie by men as they vvere not to have an immediate call in themselves Though the approbation of good and experienced men in its place is not denyed by us but dearly ovvned Fourthly thou sayest who ever pretends to an immediate call they ought for the satisfaction of others to shew signes and tokens of their Apostleship to which I ansvver That those who come preaching the Gospell not in speech only but also in Power and in the holy Ghost and in the evidence and demonstration thereof As it is 1. Thess. 15. and. 1. Cor. 2. 4. give sufficient proofe that they are called of God though they come not vvith outvvard miracles And though Paul came to some vvith miracles vvhere hee preached the Gospell yet many believed vvho savv no outvvard miracle Also many of the Prophets vvrought no miracle nor Iohn the Baptist. And though some miraculous things came to passe about his Conception and birth those doe not of themselves prove him to be a Prophet for miraculous things miracles vvere vvrought upon many vvho vvere no prophets If Miracles be necessarie to evince a man sent of God hee must come vvith these Miracles before the people vvhich Iohn did not nor did Ionas come vvith any Miracle to convince the Ninivites but simply declared his message And Iohn Calvin asserteth that there is no need of Miracles and yet hee maintaineth that in his day God raised up Apostles or Evangelists saying that it vvas needfull such should be to bring back the poor people that had gone astray after Antichrist Lib. 4. Chap. 3. Inst. Neither did any Protestants pretend to doe any Miracles they pleading against the Papists that there was no absolute need of any in respect they preached not a new Gospell but that which was already confirmed with miracles by Christ and his Apostles And so thy plea against us here is the same that vvas urged by the Papists against the primitive protestants An evill and adulterous generation said Christ