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A13774 The true copy of tvvo letters, with their seuerall answeres, contayning the late apostasie of the Earle of Lauall, after his returne from Italy VVherein the principall poynts in controuersie with the papists, are learnedly and fully confuted. By D. Tilenus. Faythfully translated by D.D.S. Tilenus, Daniel, 1563-1633.; Coligny, Guy Paul de, 1555-1586, attributed name.; D. D. S.; Laval, Antoine de, 1550-1631, attributed name. 1605 (1605) STC 24072; ESTC S118417 23,042 42

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great fame and his disgrace shall stand Inrol'd fer euer with a Brittaynes hand D. D. S. The Aduertisement of the Authour to the Christian Reader CVriosity and pleasure are two dangerous diseases and euery one apart is strong ynough to ouercome his patient how much more while being both together they conioyne to assayle him as it were agreeing both by the body and the soule the one ingendring himselfe within the spirit the other within the flesh each of them consuming and destroying the parts that breed it euen as the Worme destroyeth the Apple the Viper her mother They symbolize in many things and as two sister-like twinnes they attyre thēselues with one selfe same habit the definition of the one not much disagreeing frō the nature of the other So that to this end an ancient Father sayd That Adultery was nothing else but a curiosity of an other mans pleasure the one alienating the spirit of the patient from the knowledge of saluation and causing him to take appetite to those things wherof the ignorance is wisdome and the practice damnable maketh him the disciple of the father of lyes subiect to the Prince of darknesse the first inuenter of those mysteries of hell the other changeth his body which ought to be the member of Iesus Christ the temple of the holy Ghost into the member of an harlot and habitation of vncleane spirits both of them be bad very fit to corrupt youth to seduce it to the stewes of Antichrist where there is somewhat to please both those intising humours for what doth more resemble the curiosity of Magicke then the charmes of hallowed Agnus Dei of the Transsubstantiation to the characters of Soccrers then the marks of the beast deciphered in the book of Reuelation A great part of this deuillish Art bewrayeth itselfe by auricular confession imitating the forme of interrogatories registred in the decrees of Buchart Bishop of Wormes As touching the pleasure of the flesh where may a man find the exercise more free the excesse more enormous then within the great Babylon where the bodily lust hath no lesse sway then the spiritual Where haue bin inuented these sacred Canons which do not only with the Council of Toledo permit concubines but also commaund and ordaine the community of wiues with Plato and of goods with the Anabaptists Behold these two rocks which as wel as ambition couetousnes ouerwhelme the faith of many by lamentable shipwrack This is the course wherin lately the Earle of Laual ouerthrew himselfe to the great griefe of those who hoped hee would one day succeede to the piety and vertue of his predecessors but these qualities are gifts personall not hereditary as the name temporall goods After that he had languished a long time in these diseases possessing both his spirit his flesh there was also marked in him diuers symptomes and signes of an euil successe and among other things was perceiued a fact direct cōtrary to that which S. Luke describes for hauing past to change the ayre in Italy a country which is not thoght very good for those persons that be most wholsome and whole he did not refuse all kind of pleasures for his body besides made prouision of mortall receits for his soule buying at a high rate writings like to those which the disciples of the Apostles cast into the fire notwithstāding they were of great value so soone as they did imbrace the christiā faith at Ephesus by which purchase he declared very well to be more disposed to take place in the Temple of the great Diana of the Papists thē to haue preserued that wherwith it pleased God to haue honored him in his true Church who condēneth those detestable curiosities and in the end the Apostem beginning to grow gorge forth the venome contained in these his two letters in which he propoūdeth diuers questions not so much as to receiue light of his doubts wherin such diseases had tane away both his desire vnderstāding but because after a iust refusall of a verbal conferēce made vnto his vniust demaūds being addressed to those who vnderstood that resolutiō which he had already taken he had need thē of some other mask to end the Catastrophe of his Tragedy instead of extreme vnction funerall preparations of his religiō dead in his soule long time before dissembling in the mean time this spiritual death toward these who did their indeuour for his preseruatiō as appeares in matters of estate who cōceale for certaine dayes the death of their great Princes but seeing he could not so wel coūterfet the voyce of Iacob but that the hands of Esau did discouer him neither was he able himself to support any longer the pestilēt smel which his neutrality did breathe forth amōg the liuing the dead betwixt the preaching of the Gospel the Idolatrous masse but that he was forced to discouer his maske And hauing trāsported himselfe to the Couent of the Capucians in Paris he burted solemnly his religion accōpanied with many exorcismes abiurations confessions pentiencies and such ceremonies which did serue him no lesse to his obsequ●es thē did the desperate painting attiRes to Iesabel which she did take in the instāt houre she was to be cast Forth of the window to break her neck They had great desire to adorne the lamentable pompe of the poore young Earle by some pray which they thought to haue caught on our professors and to this effect after the refusall of the verball conference which he demanded the Iesuits had perswaded him to aduise in that same instant vpon the said doubts with diuers persons in diuers places hoping that in diuersity of stile they might incoūter certain differēces of beleeuing in those that should answer but not finding one iust subiect on our part to fal in any such inconuenience but rather to alienate him frō the wickednes of the corrupters of his youth We supposed nothing should diuert vs frō putting to light the obiections made on the one part the answers giuen on the other side to the end that cōFerring the one with the other euery one who hath eyes to see may vnderstād that those which wil not know that which is should imagine to thēselues to see that which they see not which be the two kinds of blindnes wherwith God by his iust iudgement doth punish those that forsake the spirit for the flesh the truth for vanity the light for darknes the Sauiour of the world for the son of perdition neuerthelesse we hope God willing that those who haue not much edified Christs Church by their life shall farre lesse ruine the same by their death seeing that their voluntary separation from our cōmunion doth no other thing then ease vs frō the necessary trouble of cutting thē off frō our society no more then the wind which driueth away the chaffe in the ayre easing thē which in the meane time are about to clense the floore
Farewell The first letter of the Earle of Lauall to his master D. Telenus SIR I am to render you exceeding great thanks for the receiuing in so good part the newes of my returne but if any other hath noted the contrary in you that hath bin against my intention meaning who haue nothing in more respect then to serue you and not in any sort to offend you These faire instructions which pleased you to giue me haue brought into me a great ioy and contentment imagining with my selfe that they haue proceeded frō a person of such learning as you be and that beare mee such good will as to loue me the one knowne to the whole world the other beleeued of me with a great satisfaction But this discourse which it hath pleased you to propound touching the manifest difference of 2. Religions hath moued in me a desire to learne more of you who hath left in me such a taste that I desire rather to make the demaunds of an ignorant then to be made wise in any thing by your answere I will rather intreat you to instruct me in the controuersies then to strengthen mee in my beleefe And first to shew me if the visible Church hath remained any space of time in her purity and how long or if she hath euerso remained or if she hath had only that quality of purity since Caluins time Secondly if ye hold for constant and firme the heads of Religion that were debated resolued vpon in the soure first generall Councils Thirdly if the calling or sending be necessary to Ministers and of whom had Caluin it Fourthly if the sacred Scriptures interpret them then euery one is capable for the vnderstanding thereof Fiftly all the Heresies that haue bene confuted doe wee not hold them iustly and well ouerthrowne Sixtly if we receiue the Fathers as witnesses only of matters of their time and as Historiographers or not Seuenthly if the inuocation of Saints be euil because it steales away the honour which is due vnto God or if it be superfluous and to no purpose because they vnderstand vs not Eyghtly if all bodies bee circumscribed or not I pray you now not to answere so subtilly that I cannot vnderstand you lest perhaps you may distrust that some other and not my self haue made them as you may iudge that the order and the stile cannot proceed but from such an ignorant person as I so also the subiect and matter is conceyued in my spirit by writing of that to which for the most part there is need of no other answere but your nay I craue your pardon for disturbing you from your graue and waighty affayres to learne me the A. B. C. and am and shall be more then any person Your most affectionate and bound disciple to serue you LAVALL D. Telenus Answere to the Earle of Laualls first Letter SIR I prayse God with my whole heart that in the end he hath put in your mind this iust right resolutiō as to keep one eare for the truth the which being in this world as in a strange for raine country or as it were imprisoned by the father of lyes incounters more enemies that accuse her then of aduocates that defend her I know her accusatiōs by those questions which it hath pleased you to demaund of me your modesty requires that I receiue them as from the part of an ignorant but it is a long time since I learned that the most profound Doctors of Sorbon could not bring forth more better nor more beautifull Neuertheles I reioyce to behold you to take on the quality of a disciple that binds your conscience to delay all reuolting at least vntill that time that sure knowledge shall teach you both the reason the groūd therof but I beseech you to pardon me if my answers surpasse a little the limits of yea and nay which your letter hath prescribed me considering that there requireth a little more time to draw a stone out of a pit then in casting of it in and that the center the circumference of an answer well made is not only so much the wil of him that makes the demaund but principally the need he hath to know vnderstand it Also I perswade my self that ye vnderstand not the name of disciple after the maner of the Pithagoreans that alledge for all reasons answers the yea and the nay of their master a style which for the present is not fitting but to the disciples of the Pope of whom only selfewil holds the place of all reason authority And although you desire to be rather instructed in the controuersies then fortified in your beleefe and that you perceyuing so clearely that such answers vpon doubtfull and intricate questions should serue meerely all eyther for the one or for the other and would increase in you rather the number of your doubts then lighten the darknesse of your ignorance by the light of that same knowledge which consisteth not in the simple affirmation or negation but in solide and necessary demonstration Such was the opinion of S. Austen praysing Nebridius which hated greatly a short answere to a great question iudging him that knew not how many things might and ought therevpon bee spoken was not worthy to haue propounded them And since that the almighty God would not permit that I should remayne neere your person vntill that time that your age should bee more capable of more exact instructions I thought notwithstanding my farre absence I was bound to repayre that breach that in taking vpon you the title of a disciple in your letter you haue honored me in that which sometime I inioyed and hauing not since changed any thing except my dwelling and not my affections to continue my seruice towards you I should bee thought vnworthy of your good will and kindnes if I should content mee after the maner of Trumpets to haue giuen you courage by my former letter without bringing now the helpe and succour which you craue against the assaults of your doubts The first Question or rather doubt which you demaund of mee is this If the Church visible hath remayned any certayne time in her purity and how long Or if she hath remained continually Or whether shee hath this purity since Caluins time To them then who assault you and that make no other Buckler but of the Fathers they shall suffer me to answere to this question by the mouth of Eusebius or by Egysippus who is more ancient then Eusebius and very neere to the age of the Apostles themselues who sayes in his History ecclesiastical that the Church hath remayned virgin-pure chaste and whole so long as the Apostles did liue and after the generation of those who had heard that heauenly wisedome with their owne eares then errour entred and tooke possession within the Church but to others that desire instruction there is required a more particular answere lest they should thinke that wee desire rather to