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spirit_n ghost_n holy_a lord_n 23,094 5 4.0162 3 true
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A01272 An other boke against Rastel named the subsedye or bulwark to his fyrst boke, made by Ihon Frithe preso[n]ner in the Tower Frith, John, 1503-1533.; Frith, John, 1503-1533. Disputacion of purgatorye. 1537 (1537) STC 11385; ESTC S105656 24,707 52

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wyll saye so agayne take it as he wyll Also he recyteth as a great reproche that I shulde saye I meruayle howe oure scolemen maye abyde this felowe And surelye the same I say againe for he prouethe bothe Saynte Thomas and them also foles and double foles whyche yf I shulde so doo wolde be counted haynous heresye Then he reherseth what I say of Master more and my lorde of Rochestre and all to helpe his mater that whē I say the smal probacions and slender reasons that those .ii. wytted men syr Thomas More and my lorde of Rochestre had brought to confyrme purgatory made my harte to yerne what raylynge or yestynge this is let other mē iudge but this I dare auow that I sayd the truthe for what shulde a mā do or say to se thē so cōtrary in their tales Master More saith that their is fyer no water ī purgatory my lord of Rochester saith that their is both fier water .m. more saith that the mynister of punyshment are deuels And my lorde of Rochester sayeth that the minister of punyshment are angels Master More sayeth that bothe the grace and charyte of them that lye in paynes of purgatory are increased my lord of Rochestre saith the soules of purgatorye obtayne there nother more fayth nor grace nor charyte then they brought in with thē Now iudge good reader whether I haue rayled or sayed the truethe but all this doth● Rastell leue oute full craftely he recyteth ful diligently bothe the hede tayle but the middle which expoūdeth the matter wyll he not let you se He allegeth also agaynst me that I say Master More is sore disceyued and set on the sand euen at the fyrste brunte and in the begynnynge of his viage and that I wolde wysh master More a lyttell more wytte Euen that I say agayne and affyrme it to be true and is so euydently proued in the begynnynge of my answere agaynste Master More that I neade to saye nothynge but only referre the reader vnto the place Also he improueth me for sayinge in an other place that master More sheweth hym in one texte twyse ignoraunte and that he is to busye for he vnderstondeth not the phrase of scrypture This and suche other sayinges he allegeth which I passe ouer for I counte it folye to spende paper and laboure aboute the rehersynge of thē for yf you reade my boke you shall se all these poyntes so playnly proued that he moughte be ashamed to make mencion of them This he counteth gestinge sclanderinge and raylinge sayinge that no reasonable man wyll thynke these poyntes to be thīges belonginge to vertue but rather spyces and branches of pryde and that I shewe not my selfe therin charitable but rather malicious nor no wysdom therin but rather folye addynge that yf I had bene halfe yere at two scoles that is to saye the scole of discrecion and the scole of cheryte I shulde more haue prospered in vertuous lernyng then I haue done in other scoles this .vii. yere And sayeth that I haue ben at the scoles of slanderynge raylinge and gestinge Dere brother yf it had bene so that I had spoken certayne wordes in deade which● might haue semed in your yies to be raylinge detractinge and slanderynge as I haue not sauynge a lyttell gestyng wolde you disproue my doctrine therby what wyl you then say to S. John̄ baptist which called the pharyses then hedes of the churche as are now our doctours generacion of viperes wolde you therfore conclude that his doctrines where noughte I thynke you be not so chyldishe And it semeth this one sentence to be more raylinge and slanderlyng then all that I haue wryten what wyll you say to Chryste which called the scrybes and pharyses hypocrytes Math. 15. 16. 22. and in the .13 he semethe to rayle aboue measure where he calleth them hypocrites and blynde gydes paynted sepulchers whiche onwardlye appere ryghtwyse but wythin are full of ypocrysye serpentes and generacion of vipers Besydes that he calleth herode fox Luce .xiii. and the ●ewes he called a frowarde and aduouteres generacion Math 12. 16. and in the .17 he sayeth o vnfaythful and ouerwharte nacyon wolde you thynke it shulde excuse the iewes whyche refused his doctrine to saye that he rayled and that no reasonable man wolde thynke those thynges to be poyntes belonginge to vertu but rather spices and braunches of pryde and that he shewed not hymselfe charitable but malicious nor no wysdome therin but folye wolde it excuse them to say as you do to me that yf he had bene one halfe yere at scole of discreciō and chartye he shulde more haue prospered in vertuous lernynge that he had ben at the scoles of sclandering raylinge iestynge Finally S. Paul in your yies might appere to raile slāder to be clene destitute of goddes sprete which as Luc. saieth replenished with the holy gost said to Elemas that resisteth hī Act. 13. o thou full of al suttelty deceite thou son̄e of the deuel enemy of all rightwisnes ceaseth not to ꝑuerte the rightwayes of the lord I cā brīge many m● such sainges of Peter Joh. James Judas yet I thinke you will not inproue their doctrine therby but because I studye to be shorte I shal coūte it sufficiēt to haue warned the reder of this Notwithstōdīg ꝑaduēture Rastel wyl not yet be āswered but wil say that albeit I haue touched ynough as cōcernīg those thinges that appere ra●ling slāderig in his yies yet I brought non that iest as I do wher vnto I maye answere allege for me her●as the ꝓphet which both mocked the false prestes gested with thē sayinge calle lowde vnto your godes for ꝑaduēture they are a slepe cā not here or els they be gone out of towne I cā not ynough meruell that my brother Rastel wolde vse such maner of reasoning with me as to imꝓue my doctrine because of my raylinge and gestynge For therwith he hathe made a foule hole in his kinsmās beste cote for euery mā ꝑceyueth that M. More his bokes are so full of raylinge gesting bandye tales that yf the furyous momus venus had take out their pertyes theyre shulde be verye lyttel lefte for vulcanus After this Rastell dissenteth to the purpose of his mater wolde proue that my exposicions of scripture are not good because they are an occasyon to brynge the people to boldnes of synne to moue the people to deylte in other mens fautes and to laughte therat and to put you an ensample he sayeth yf I shulde take vppon me the exposicion of this texte In principio erat verbū et verbum erat apud deum c and expounde it after this maner In the begynnynge of this yere John̄ Frith is a noble clarke He kylled a mylstone wyth his spere Kepe wel your geese your dogs do barke I trowe