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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A65842	A brief discovery of the dangerous principles of John Horne (a priest in Lin) and Thomas Moore junior both teachers of the people called Mooreians or Manifestarians, (and called by some free-willers or independants.) In answer to their book called A brief discovery of the people called Quakers, and a warning to all people to beware of them and of their dangerous principles, &c. Which book is a false narrative of two disputes, the one which they had with John Whitehead at Gedney in Lincoln-shire, and the other with Geo. Whitehead and Geo. Fox the younger, at Lin in Norfolke, both in the seventh moneth, 1659. Also priest Horns testimony against his brethren the priests. This is to go amonst the professors in England in discovery of the truth; ... By the truth which is in George Whitehead. John Whitehead. George Fox the younger.	Whitehead, George, 1636?-1723.; Whitehead, John, 1630-1696. aut; Fox, George, d. 1661. aut	1659 (1659)	Wing W1896; ESTC R220960	30,510	44

they say that we said the same body that suffered was glorified at Gods right hand in heaven yet still they say we meant but his Church either by his body or by the heavens and then they charge it upon us as a fundamental error Answ. Now they that discerne the body of Christ may see how these wise men of Babylon have confounded and stifled themselves in their own confusion one while saying that we would not be drawn to answer their question another while confessing that we said the same body that suffered was glorified at Gods right hand in heaven and now when they can get nought against our words they charge us ignorantly with what we meant and here it appears they hold that Christ hath two bodies in telling of a mystical body and not receiving that as an answer that his body is the Church the fulness of him that filleth all in all so that from their words they would have Christ to have a body besides or distinct from the fulness of God when as the Scripture doth not say that Christ hath two bodies nor that his body is a body of flesh and bones without the blood in it in the Heavens as John Horne and Thomas Moore have told us for its not proper to say that a body of flesh and bones is in the Heavens as if it were in many places at once for Heavens are more then one and the body is one and hath many members 1 Cor. 12. 12. and this body is not carnal but spiritual which they who were carnal as these men are could not discern though the outward bodies of believers they might discern and yet this body of Christ is discerned by the believers who are led by the Spirit of God and its in the heavens above the clouds which they who are gazing abroad and looking carnally to see Christ they discern not the Lords body for they see not thorow the Clouds into the Heavens so Christ is taken out of their sight But Stephen who was full of the Holy Ghost saw the heavens opened and the Son of man on the right hand of his Father and John in the spirit saw into heaven and a door opened in heaven and Christs body is not distinct from the spirits of all men as it is distinct from carnal bodies as you imagine by your Question for the just men who are come unto mount Zion where the Lamb Reigneth in his glory I say their spirits rejoyce in him and the true Church in Christ which discerneth his body in his fulness is but one compleat body in the fulness of God which filleth all in all both in Heaven and Earth though you imagine two bodies of Christ And this know that what the Scriptures do declare of Christ and his body we own and the same that descended into the lower parts of the Earth is he that Ascended far above all Heavens that he might fill all things the same Christ that suffered in the body at Jerusalem who appeared in divers forms after his Resurrection and in the transfiguration before the same rose again and was taken in his Ascending out of the sight of them that gazed after him and is glorified in the same glory which he had with the Father before the world was John 17 and as he who is the Word became flesh so when the dayes of his flesh were finished he was translated into his own glory which he had with his Father from Eternity and so the second Adam is a quickening spirit and his body is spiritual not discerned by you whose minds are out from his spirit neither can his glory by which he was transfigured and is glorified be seen but by them who pass thorow death and follow him into the mount And now you who so much contend about the body of Christ we ask you this Question whether do you believe that the body of Christ which the Saints upon earth do discern and which the world cannot discern is a body of flesh and bones in the Heavens yea or nay seeing you own the believers or the Church to be a body of Christ and plead for another body of Christ distinct from them John Horn and Thomas Moore p. 5. Say that believers are members of his body namely his mystical body of his flesh and of his bones not flesh of his flesh and bone of his bone Answ. This is grosse confusion to say that believers are members of Christs flesh and bones and then to say they are not flesh of his flesh and bone of his bone as if Christ had two bodies of flesh and bones one of which the Saints are not members when the Apostle saith as much as they were flesh of his flesh and bone of his bone in his saying no man ever hated his own flesh but nourisheth it and cherisheth it even as the Lord the Church for we are members of his body of his flesh of his bones Eph. 5. 30. J. Horn Tho. Moore bring 1 Thes. 4. 15. 16. and Phil. 3. 20. 21. where it is said Christ shall descend from Heaven not from but to his Church say they yea this of the Quakers denying that body glorified doth at once turn up by the roots all the faith of Christs appearing in the presence of God to mediate for us Ans Was there ever the like confusion and falshood uttere'd as these men do appear in a little before they say of the Quakers that they said the same body that suffered was glorified at Gods right hand in Heaven and now charge us with denying that body glorified it were well they would be ashamed of their lies and confusion and as for that 1 Thes. 4. 15. Concerning the coming of the Lord from Heaven which these men aforesaid would blindly put afar of as to a coming of Christ with flesh and bones the Apostle saith we which are alive remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are a sleep so that coming of Christ the Saints who then were alive remained unto it and in that of Phil. 3. 20. 21. there it is said our conversation is in Heaven from whence also we look for the Saviour the Lord Jesus Christ so their conversation was in Heaven and there they looked for the Saviour they did not say their conversation was at a distance off above the Clouds from whence you look for a Christ like your selves but that he hath no blood in his body as you imagine whom we desire not the knowledge of and that your Faith which is not grounded in Christs appearing in you is to be turned up by the roots Again J. Horn and T. Moor do accuse us to be Reprobate concerning the Faith touching the Resurrection of the dead as chiefly they accuse us for affirming that the same body that dyes shall not be raised again and that George Fox would not be brought to say whether the spiritual body was ever dead but answered in general

A BRIEF DISCOVERY OF THE Dangerous Principles OF John Horne a Priest in Lin and Thomas Moore junior both Teachers of the people called Mooreians or Manifestarians and called by some Freewillers or Independants In Answer to their Book Called A brief Discovery of the People called Quakers and a Warning to all people to beware of them and of their dangerous principles c. Which Book is a false Narrative of two Disputes the one which they had with John Whitehead at Gedney in Lincoln-shire and the other with Geo. Whitehead and Geo. Fox the younger at Lin in Norfolke both in the seventh Moneth 1659. Also Priest Horns Testimony against his brethren the Priests This is to go amongst the Professors in England in Discovery of the Truth For in this Answer the Truth is cleared and John Horne and Tho. Moores Ignorance discovered concerning Perfection and the Resurrection and the Body and Blood of Christ and his Light and other things of concernment and their abusing the Truth which is set over them and their deceits made manifest By the Truth which is in George Whitehead John Whitehead George Fox the younger Jer 10. 21. For the Pastors are become bruitish and have not sought the Lord therefore they shall not prosper and all their flocks shall be scattered Printed for Thomas Simmons at the Bull and Mouth near Aldersgate 1659. TO THE READER THat all People who reads this Treatise may see the confusion and Ignorance of John Horne and Thomas Moore who long have been owned as eminent Teachers by many that are deceived by them it is seen sit that they seriously here take a view of some of the Principles affirmed by the said John Horne and Thomas Moore at the dispute that we had with them as ordered of the Lord at Lin in Norfolke the fifteenth day of the seventh Moneth 1659. for their booke which is hereafter confuted hath some relation to their Principles which are laid down as followeth Thomas Moore affirmed That sin is a natural Heritage in the believers while they are here That their nature is restored in Christ speaking of their own nature and that their nature is a filthy nature and Christ took upon him their nature John Horne That they that had no guile in them had sin in them That every sin is not guile T. M. That the blood of Christ shed is not in his Person in heaven but the virtue of it T. M. That the blood of Christ shed is the foundation of their faith but where it is they answered not nor could they tell T M. That the Life of Christ is not in the bloud of Christ so from this then the foundation of their faith hath not the Life of Christ in it T. M. That the Light with which Christ lighteth every man is both natural and spiritual T. M. That the Person of Christ viz. of flesh and bone is a quickening spirit and dwells in the believers by faith and to prove it he said That the Corinthians dwelt in the heart of Paul J. H. To that of 1 Cor. 15. 45. The last Adam was made a quickening spirit John Horne said That he was distinct from the Eternal Spirit T M. To prove sin a natural heritage in believers so long as they are here he brought that of Rom. 7. 17. These Doctrines with many such like were taken notice of by many as they were asserted by the said John Horne and Thomas Moore and contradicted by the Truth at the Dispute aforesaid wherein it is so easie to see their darknesse and confusion that we need say little about them at present but proceed to Answer their Booke which in effect hath the very same Doctrines in it with many such like so that we desire that our following Answer may be seriously read without prejudice or envy against us and let the Light of Christ judge between us and our Accusers whereby the Readers hereof may see the errours and confusions of these men aforesaid confuted by the Truth and us who love it cleared from their slanders and revilings ANd now John Horne and Thomas Moore you have charged us called Quakers with being guilty of great errors 1. In that you say we plead for and maintain a perfection of sinlessnesse in our selves in this life and to prove this a great Error you say that the Apostles never said of themselves or any other man or woman besides Christ Jesus that they had no sin in in them Answ. Here you are found in the great Error your selves who deny the perfection of sinlesnesse in the believers in this life the Apostle said he that believeth hath the witnesse in himself 1 John 5. 10. which witnesse is perfect and sinlesse so not without the perfection of sinlesnesse and he that believeth hath obtained witnesse that he is righteous and having this perfect witnesse in himself he is not without the perfection and purity of it in himself for the witnesse of God cannot be divided from the nature of it and John said speaking of Christ as he is so are we in this world 1 John 4. 17. so you have manifestly wronged both us and the Apostles and we do not say that there is any perfection in ourselves without Christ who is our righteousnesse and we the righteousnesse of God in him Again to prove our maintaining perfection in this life an Errour you say Christ was manifested to take away sin and in him is no sin 1 John 3. but never is it said so of any other and that it is no where said by any one of the Saints of themselves or of any of their Brethren that they had no sin in them or were not sinners Answ. Here you would accuse the Saints or Brethren with having sin in them and with being sinners while in this life But mark how fairly you have contradicted your own doctrine you tell us It is said indeed that he that abideth in him sinneth not and he that is born of God doth not commit or worksin because the seed of God abides in him neither can he sin that is commit work or yield up to sin because he is born of God you say So you may here see what J. Horn and T. Moore have confessed that he that abideth in Christ sinneth not and that he that is born of God cannot sin nor yield up to sin because his seed remains in him whereas before they have counted our maintaining a perfection of sinlesness in this life a great errour and would accuse the Saints and Brethren with being sinners so any that are not wholly blind may see their confusion and how they have broken themselves upon the stone which they have been making warre against for if Christ be made manifest to take away sin then they in whom he is made manifest are not to have sin remaining in them so long as they are in this life and if he that is born of God cannot sin nor yield up to sin then he is not a

if they believe that there was no blood left in Christs body when he was crucified And when T M. had pleaded for a body of flesh and bones in the Heavens he did not own that Christs body there is a carnal body see how flatly therein he contradicted his own words and the Priests doctrine for Priest Higginson and others affirmed that Christ is in Heaven with a carnal body but his body i● a Mistery which these men of Babylon can never know who are thus in confusion for Christs body is onely known with that by which God is seen and known who is not the Authour of their confusion but of peace And in page 12. T M. and J. H. speak as that Job said Behold God is great we know him not and to prove it bring Job 36 26. which is a sad mistake against Job for it was Elihu that spoke these words who was one of them that spoke against Joh Joh 35. 2 and 26. 1. for Job knew God when they that came against him did not but this their Accusation against Job is even like John Horns pleading for sin in a Letter to Eliz. Underwood for which he brought Eliphaz his words who was one of them that came against Job and sooke not the thing of God that was right where he said in Job 4. 1● and 15. 14 15. Behold he put no trust in his servants and his Angels he charged with folly which were none of Jobs words but his against whom the wrath of God was kindled Job 42. 7. and in like manner hath John Horn often belyed the servants of the Lord both in his Book and ●a●se Letters which he sent abroad in the Countrey to several that were brought to see his deceit and therefore are turned from him and many more of his lyes in several of his Letters against us I could produce i. occasioned to it In page 12. J. Horn and T. Moor say That it is rather a vertue to which we are advised not to be wise or think or guess above what is written but presently they begin to guess that which is not written and so confound themselves in their saying That there are indeed very probable arguments used to prove that that precious blood was reunited again with the body of Christ in the Resurrection But how shall any that are ignorant believe them or be instructed with their confusion For again they have to mend this their matter confuted these they call very probable arguments to prove that Christs blood was reunited again with the body of Christ for in contradiction to this in their Post-script they say But these being but probabilities at most and on the other side the Scriptures speaking of Christs Resurrection mentioning only that which was buried without any mention of his blood reunited So from hence we clearly see that J. Horn and some of his Company have had much reasoning about the blood of Christ and are in themselves confounded about it one while saying that there are very probable arguments to prove that it was reunited again with the body of Christ another while not owning that it was reunited again and with that they conclude See what blind guides these men are we might have received as good an answer from School-boyes about the blood of Christ as they might have guessed at it as J. Horn and T. Moor hath done and have told us that it is either in the body of Christ or not in it But mark how again they have guessed about it They say in page 12. Again that which was blood before may be in the changed state turned into pure life and spirit the thing or substance remaining Answ. Here again they have guessed and thought above that which is written and how can blood be turned into spirits and the substance of it remaining this is a meer dream and one of John Hornes divinations and it contradicts Moores words for he said that the life of Christ is not in his blood Again if the blood that Christ shed be turned into pure spirits and life what is his body of flesh and bones turned into or what reason is there that his blood should be altered more then his flesh and bones but all this confusion and dirty stuff of John Hornes and Thomas Moores is seen thorow and made manifest with the true light in which they that walk shall feel the blood of Christ which cleanseth from all sin and know that the spirit the water and blood which bear record in the earth agree in one and the blood is the life which is in Christ whose body is not a body without the blood in it as these dreamars aforesaid imagines and as the Prophet said we witness that by the blood of the Covenant the prisoners are sent out of the pit which can hold no water Again in pag. 14. We are falsly accused with denying what the Scripture asserts about the body of Christ and the Resurrection of mens bodies and about the knowledge of Christ Answ. Here we see plainly that this John Horne and Thomas Moore do love lying rather then to speak righteousness for we own what the Scripture asserts about the body of Christ and the Resurrection but deny their imaginations and here again I shall bring their own words to confute them in pag. 5. they have confessed that we said of Christs body that the same body that suffered was glorified at Gods right hand in Heaven which might have stopt their mouths from accusing us as they did and as for our not asserting that the same earthly bodies of men shall rise again they have in their post-script confessed that the raised body in the resurrection shall not be flesh and blood to which I say then not that body which is sown or buried for that is a body of flesh and blood Again touching Christs appearance after his resurrection when he shewed his Disciples his hands and his feet we do not believe that his body then had no blood in it for he then did eat before them of the broiled fish and honny comb which they gave him which is nourishment to both flesh and blood Luke 24. 41. 42. and the blood is the life of that which hath need of such outward nourishment yea the life of all flesh is the blood Gen. 9. 4. 5. Levit. 17. 14. but as Christ is Ascended into his Fathers glory in Heaven he is in a further state for he hath not need now of such outward nourishment as broiled fish or a hony comb for he is in the same glory which he had with the Father before the world began and as for the Saints also their bodies in the resurrection shall as far exceed these our earthen bodies in glory as the glory of the Sun Moon and Stars do exceed the glory of Birds Beasts and Fishes but the mystery of these things is for ever sealed as in Parables from such blind guides as these aforesaid who have long abused the