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A44639 The seat of the scorner thrown down, or, Richard Hobbs his folly, envy and lyes in his late reply to my book called A looking-glass, &c manifested and rebuked whereunto is annexed my call from the Baptists, to walk in the true light : and a true testimony to the light and power of Christ in the heart with a few queries to the said R. Hobbs / by Luke Howard ; to which is added a further answer by T.R. Howard, Luke, 1621-1699.; Howard, Luke, 1621-1699. Looking-glass for Baptists.; Rudyard, Thomas, d. 1692. Water-Baptists reproach repeld. 1673 (1673) Wing H2987; ESTC R6501 43,144 60

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for want of power laying to our charge his spirit which we have deny'd ten years ago O ye Fools so soon as ever the King gives you a little Liberty to meet where you were afraid of man to meet but a little time since and so crept into Cor●ers is this the glorious beautifullest Fruit you have to appear with surely this is not the Wisdom which is from Above which is ●irst Pure then Peaceable and easie to be entreated but that wisdom which is from Beneath where the Serpent's life is which is earthly sensual and devilish which bites at the Heel Surely Dust is and shall ●e the Serpents meat and upon his Belly shall he go all the days of his life ●ere read your selves if you can understand what it means saith ●e who is a true Friend to all mens Eternal Peace Dover the 9th day of the 5th Moneth 1672. Luke Howard A Postscript This Baptist Pastor and as many of his Flock as are of his mind would have all people to believe That the spirit by which C. B. was acted when he h●d err'd in his heart from God was and is the spirit by which all the Quakers are led by as the very Principle of their Religion This is the thing which his printing is for to possess people with a Belief of and he thinks in his Serpent's Wisdom that he hath made it sure enough in saying That he was owned an eminent Quaker at the time of his Imprisenment and running out to which I have Answered already how he was then looked upon by Friends whom he reputes to be a Poor Mis●led and Deluded People but in that Way which he accounts Delusion to w●t Believing in the Light of Jesus which shines in the Heart and 〈◊〉 manifest in every mans Conscience do we worship God in even in th●●●p●●it and in the Truth which the Devilis out of and all which do his works of Envy And therefore something is yet in my Heart to s●e●k t● 〈◊〉 spirit of Envy in the Baptist Pastor as he stiles himself and that on th● wise Christ Jesus was glorified with the Father before the World was and in time manifested to the World in that Body which the Father had prepared him to do his Will in whose Name is call'd the Word of God by which the World was made who took upon him the Seed of 〈◊〉 and declar'd to be the Son of David according to the Flesh but ●he Son of God according to the Spirit by the Resurrection from the dea● who had all Power in Heaven and Earth given to him by which he gave Commission to his Apostles or Messengers to Baptize into the Name of the Father Son and Holy Ghost which is into the Nature and Life of each which is one divine Nature and these three being one in Nature and Beeing and every one which is herein baptized knows the Father and the Son b● the Spirit which to know is eternal Life which is to increase in which they also know John's Ministry and Baptism which was to decrease else there must be two perpetual Baptisms but there is one Lord one Faith and one Baptism which is to be contended for and lived in by all who are of the true Church which is in God the Father of Spirits and of our Lord Jesus Christ the second Adam the Quickning Spirit the Lord from Heaven who in his Body prepared him to do the Will of God in went up and down doing good and chose Twelve and one of them was a Devil not a Devil when he chose him Mark that for when he had part of the Ministry then a Servant of God but he erred in his heart and fell away and it was said Let his Habitation be desolate and let no man dwell therein and his Charge let another take What now Baptist Pastor wouldst thou not here have judged all because he walked and professed among the rest of the Disciples and yet afterwards in eating and drinking with them was called a Devil by him that had chosen him into his Service before in which he had so walked that each Disciple was ready to question himself Is it I and Is it I here would not thy spirit have said Ah! you are all alike led by one spirit here see thy spirit and face thou blind Pastor And Peter he deny'd his Master and cursed and swore he knew him not would not thy envi●us spirit have said Ah! they are all alike and led by one spirit for all ●hey have been a preaching up the Light yet would not thy Pharisaical ●pirit have condemned all for Peter and though he found a place of Repentance what is that to thee and thy judgment against the Truth in this ●ase for Judas found no more place then C. B hath yet found and ●et he had a part and might be and was reckoned a Disciple as well by ●he rest of the Disciples as C. B. was reckened a Quaker by some of the Quakers for to some he was manifest as I said before though you Baptists knew is not And then Demas he forsook Paul and embraced ●he present World what wouldst thou have said less then Ah! they are ●ll alike led by one spirit let them profess what they will for those ●hich said the Apostles turn'd a the World up-side down and contradicted ●nd blasphemed their Doctrine What do you Baptists in this your Work ●iffer from them And those which had the Form and not the Power ●hich were to be turned away from what would thy Jewish spirit ●ave said Ah! they are all alike led by one spirit for they speak ●like and act alike as this blind Pastor said Charles Baily did ●●st as the Quakers in all things both in Words and Actions ●herefore all one spirit said he And then John said They went ●ut from us because they were not of us that it might be made ●anifest they were not all of Us He doth not say They had never ●een among them Mark that but They were not of them ●ere wouldst not thou have been the Accuser of the Brethren and in ●nvy have been ready to have ●rinted against them and have ●aked Ten Years back to have proved them that went out from them to have been of them at such a time and at such a time and especially at that time when they held out their Golden Cup of Profession in good words as you do Here may you see your selves if the God of this World hath not blinded your Eyes And then in the Churches there was some Fault found with the most of them in some things if thou Pastor of Dover-Baptists hadst been in those dayes and heard of it would not this thy spirit have said It is all their Principles and one spirit leads them all as thou dost say concerning the Quakers against whom thou watchest for Evil both in words and action and then bringst it forth Ten Years after it is done so much out of Time that it
years backward to smite with the Fist of Wickedness and persecute the Innocent with your Tongues for want of power in your Hands to effect your Wills whose Opinions we well know and much more then is here said and what is here said is not there a cause for it let the Unbyassed in Heart and Mind judg● in the Case and let the Lord judge who judgeth not as man in the Fall judgeth but will judge Righteous Judgement But to return Now this Man your Root is gone and many which knew him not are gotten into his Form crying up your Water-Baptism as the Jews did Circumcision and a Temple with other things which God commanded in its Day as was Baptism to John which was to decrease but the one Baptism of Christ by the one Spirit into the one Body was to increase as John testified of him and stands a Witness in the Holy Scriptures against you all And so we say There is one Lord one Faith and one Baptism to be contended for and to be lived in by all who are of the Church which is in God of which Christ Jesus is the Head World without end when all things which are seen shall have an End And this Testimony lives in my Heart for God That it is neither Baptism nor not Baptism in Water that availeth any thing no more then Circumcision but a New Creature here read yourselves and as many as walk according to this Rule to wit of the New Creature Peace be unto them and to the whole Israel of God and now Wisdom is justified of her Children and every Tree is known by its Fruit so are you to all whose Eyes are open to see your Folly and Envy in raking Ten Years back as if you had sate brooding the Cockatrice Egg all this time to hatch forth the Serpent's Seed of Envy to come behind and bruise the Heel of an Innocent People which have deny'd and do deny and all along our Principle hath been against such spirits as C. Bayly's was of Ten Years since and is of now But Richard Hobbs who takes to hims●●f the name of Pastor of the Baptists in Dover s●●th in p●g● 7. of their Hatcht up Envy That ●f the Quaker● should de●● Charles Bayly to be owned a very eminent Man amongst them at the time of his Imprisonment that then they will render themselv●● 〈…〉 Persons that ever professed Religion Thus Capera●●● 〈…〉 ex●lts himself as it he spoke Truth and knew all the Q●●●●●s Minds at that time but his Anger over-ruli●g his Knowledge 〈◊〉 to seek of his Proof although he seems to prov●●t by his com●●● on Lords Day after as he saith to the Prison and there saw C. B. and most of the Quakers in Town with him and he Pray'd and some of them kneeled A poor Proof He there neglects relating That several of he Men Friends were then Prisoners in Dover Castle and besides amongst them at Liberty there were some which did not own C. Bayley so much as R. Hobbs reporteth of though to him it was not declared and besides Anne Howard my Wife I being then a Prisoner in the Castle did so far disown him that she sent up to London to the Elders of Friends and gave them an Account of his mad Actions who sent down two Friends to look after him and they testified against him when they saw him this Friends did not acquaint the Baptists with who we knew waited for Mischief but Friends Care was of him to preserve him if possible and to restore him in the Spirit of Meekness and Love as our Duty is according to Scripture but when no Recovery can be then deny'd as he was and is to this day And how can be charge the Principle or Body of our Friends with him save Envy it self And besides those Friends which chiefly were with him in the Prison were young Convinced and tender and could not easily discern and afraid to judge not knowing what to say but to us in the Castle Prison when they came up to us they would speak as it was but this did not we see meet to acquaint the Baptists with but rather endeavoured to get him to London which was done in order to his Recovery so that Friends are clear of him in the sight of God and according to Scripture although the Baptists in envy seek to lay Stumbling-blocks in the way of the Simple by it so do transgress the Law of God and Scriptures which they in words call their Rule which say Thou shalt not lay a Stumbling-Block in the way of the Blind but shalt fear thy God But they shew their Spirit to the full and the Lord judge between us and them for his Seed's sake And surely if these men had been in the dayes of Christ and the Apostles they would have done as the Jews did lay blame to the Life and Doctrine of them because of Miscarriages in Judas and others of which the Scripture declares much and that through them the Name of God was blasphemed but surely the Blasphemers were to bear their burden from the Lord as well as the Cause-givers and so mus● all now for the Lord will not be mocked but as every one sows so must he reap even the fruits of their own doings and so must you for all your Blasphemy against the Light of Jesus which we declare of which every man is lighted withal according to the Scriptures though you presumpuously sometimes call it Natural and scoffingly and enviously the Quakers dark Light with many more blasphemous words as the Jews of old did in whose steps you are found walking and whose works you are found doing in the spirit of envy which said This is the Heir come let us kill him that the Inheritance may be ours now he that envyeth is a Man-slayer or Murderer and we know that no Murderer hath Eternal Life abiding in him and we may justly desire of the Lord to be delivered from such unreasonable men which so shew your Teeth as very ready to bite if you had but power crying out in a publick Assembly of Baptists in Dover That he which answered your false Accusations of eight or mine years Envy deserv'd to have his Ears nail'd to the Pillory for only his setting two Letters for his Name which shews your spirit to all wise men sufficiently And therefore let your Profession be what it will the body of death is standing in you in which the Persecutor and Murderer lives for how unlike a true Christian are your works in raking for matter ten years back to beget in people an evil Opinion of the Quakers and what will you get by it amongst the wise in Heart but shame and contempt for our Rock is not as your rock is as late experience hath shown our Enemies themselves being Judges and now you shew what seed you are of by biting at our Heels and smiting us with the Fist of Wickedness and persecuting us with your Tongues
Certainly had R. Hobbs taken a dose of Opium he could not have more intoxicated his Brains then he has by this Occasion of Contest And to see an instance hereof take his own Words 3. In pag. 1. of his Reply speaking of his Antagonist we know not saith he but that he owned Bayly as much as the Rest did well them where 's the Owning Said R. Hobbs pag. 1. It appears by their then affirming and justifying him to be led by the True Light as they did by their hearing him preach and devoutly joyning with him in prayer Is this proof sufficient Said R. Hobbs pursuing the Question If this be not a sufficient proof they own'd him I know not what is or can be sufficient nor do I know any Rule the Quakers have by which I shall know when they own one another Here our water-Baptist tells us if this be not the Quakers Rule ●o own one another he 's at 's wits end for he knows no other But what will not he turn back and shew us his other side yes after R. Hobbs has told his Reader this fair Tale that L. Howard own'd C. Bayly as much as any and the only proof of owning him was by joyning in Prayer c. and if that was not sufficient Proof he knew not what was he bringing again an Objection of L. Howard that he and some more were in Prison did not own him so much observe L. Howard uses not that Expression of so much but its Hobbs his Forgery which Negation of L. Howard the Author thus answers If by so much you mean you did not joyn with him in his Devotion I grant it for your Restraint from him hindered you in that What 's now become of the only owning all this so much faln in the Dirt by a down-right contradiction How well then our Water-Baptist has proved his Charge upon his Antagonist I leave it to the Considerate Reader But more of Confusion I have not often found in so brief a Writer And I cannot but take notice of this Impostors Confidence that in despight of all his forgeries and lying Citations of L. Howard's Answer to his first confused Relation yet he 's so audacious to affirm that he says no more of Luke then he himself confesseth when Luke Howard's words sentences and expressions are as opposite to the Water-Baptist's protests and averments of them as Light to Darkness it self R. Hobbs let me advise thee as a Friend to receive Luke Howard's Book and thy own Reply and pass Just Judgment upon thy own Work if not give me thy Reason Let not thy Zeal and rage against us so blind thy understanding to produce such monstrous effects and after thou hast inspected thy own untimely Birth and seen as well as thy Reader of how little weight thy way of Argument is to rectifie the mistakes or resolve the Doubts of the unprejudiced and unbyassed Inquirer at this day Answer me whether if thy old piece of envy and new-vampt story of C Baily were really true as to him-wards what do's it more concern us then the many hundreds that about the year 1660. and since Apostatized from you yea many of your Pastors and Teachers that have Revolted and some to that Perswasion you frequently stigmatize us with all as being most obnoxious to the Gust of the people We have generally forborn to put them and their Miscarriages in Print as being weak Arguments to found Religion knowing that as well in the primitive times and the first Apostolick dayes as in these Latter Ages there were still such who made Shipwrack of Faith and a good Conscience and caused the Name of God and his Truth to be blasphemed and evil spoken of and so it is now But why dost thou quarrel that an Account of our Friends dealing with C. B. was not daily brought to thee It s more then the Roman Priest's themselves desire of persons not nearer related then thou and us Must thou be a Confessor else no plain dealing must we acknowledge to thee all passages of Christian Care to one or other else justifie an Evil-doer strange Inference It s scarce that time of Day when thou hast power command it till then thou and thy Calumny rest together I cannot but observe how natural it is for this water-Baptist to correct his Antagonist yet himself double guilty of being more like a Scold then a sober Christian truly next after a personal knowledge of both I recommend their Books to the Considerate Reader who may with ease determine where the fault lies besides Luke Howard's solid behaviour in Dover has not bespoke him the scurrilous term of wanton and lewd Ranter as this wicked water-Baptist most falsly insinuates whose upright Life and sober Conversation never merited such unjust dealing from this Traducer or any other And so I Justly Charge it upon him as a false Accusation And to evidence what spirit he is of the very dialect he writes in and his own Work will easily Discover Have we more Modest Expression from him then the vilest or debauchest of men canting at us as if meer Lascivious and wanton It he mentions the Women of our Friends guibing at them thus Their Female Companions and such like airy Epithetes if Sufferers upon the quaking account and quaking Principles with many more out of that Treasury of Envy and Hatred which in store he has long horded up against us and now belches it out as an unsavoury stink in the Nation I have read over the whole Discourse of two Sheets and truly I think the Press is not very often troubled to so little or so ill purpose and did not the Covetousness of the Printer exceed the Ingenuity of the Writer I Judge he had never passed h●● pittiful Pamphlet As to what is more in his piece it s either such as falls under the apparent nullity of the Forgers Arguments or with the confused heaps of his meer Imposturs and Abuse And if any thing else remains deserving Regard 't is in the Knowledge of such whose personal acquaintance with the Forger and Fact can more properly answer if not stop the Mouth of this envious and confused Babler with whom I leave him and his Piece as they see cause for further Reproof and Examination London the 1st Mon. 1673. Thomas Rudyard A Postscript THe Word of the Lord came unto the true Prophet Ezekiel against the false and foolish Prophets who followed their own Spirits and therein prophesied Lyes and false Divinations and caused people to Err And he said Wo unto the Foolish Prophets who follow their own spirit and have seen nothing And God said Mine Hand shall be upon the Prophets that see Vanity and that divine Lyes they shall not be in the Assembly of my People Ezek. 13.1 2 3 6 7 8 9. And hath raised True Prophets in this Age to cry against the False Prophets and particularly against Charles Bayly who was many Years ago judged and denyed by the Prophets and Servants of the Lord because he prophesied Lyes and false Divinations by the Leadings of his own unclean spirit which ruled in his deceitful Heart and because of these things he hath been shut out of the Assemblies of God's People in Scorn called Quakers for many years although he sometimes appeared amongst them as the false Apostles and deceitful Workers did in the dayes of the true Prophets and Apostles appear amongst them and as the true then judged and denyed the false so have we done unto C. B. in and with the Light Life and Spirit of God and of his beloved Son Jesus Christ and in and with the same we do and shall judge all Dreamers and Prophesiers of Lyes and false Divinations who follow their own corrupt sinful and unclean spirits from which the Mysteries and Secrets of the holy pure God lie hid And now Richard Hobbs who sayst That C. B. was led by the Quakers Spirit in that Delusion which he was given up to If by the Quakers Spirit thou dost mean the Quakers Light which thou so much scoffest at which I have cause to believe by thy own words in thy Book thou dost mean then I do tell thee thou dost speak Blasphemy against God who is Light and against his beloved Son who is the express Image of his Substance Brightness of his Glory For I do tell thee and all others unto whom these Lines may come That we the People of God called Quakers have never preached up or directed any man or woman unto any other Spirit or Light wherein and whereby Salvation is brought unto the Immortal Souls of Men and Women but the Spiritual Light of God and Christ who is that Light who lights every man that comes into the World John 1.9 and 8.12 1 John 1.5 6 7. God who commanded Light to shine out of Darkness hath shined in our Hearts to give us the Light of the Knowledge of the Glory of God in the Face of Jesus Christ and his Treasure have we in Earthen Vessels that the Excellency of the Power may be of God and not of us 2 Cor. 4.6 7. W. G. THE END