not admyt the scripture to be iudge but referre al thynges to theyr interpretation and spiritee Is not this an hygh blasphemie that a sinnefull man shoulde presume to sete hym selfe iudge ouer the word and wyl of god asthough he ought not to bee obedient vnto it excepte he were moued with his owne spiritee and mocion to reiecte or receiue it I harde ones a papiste doctour openly in a disputaciō saie that we whiche teache the gospell dooe teache the truthe and dyd alowe our teachynge veary well but that he coulde not nor durste subscribe vnto it exrepte our teachynge were adprobated and alowed by the bisshoppe of Rome Beholde my Symon what abhominacion is this that a mortall man shulde take vpon hym to adprobate alowe the diuine and heauenly veritee and set hym selfe iudge ouer god Therfore haue I put this conclusion in the forefront because that the Anababtistes doe for y ◠moste parte boast and aduaunce their spirite vnder such pretence deceiuyng the simple and rude people Symon Doeth not Paule teache this that the letter doeth kylle and the spirit viuifieth or doeth quieken ii Corin. iii And Christe doeth saie Ioan. xiiii The spirite shall teache you all truthe It is spoken by the lorde also Hieremy xxxi Euery man shall teache no more his neyghbour saiyng knowe thou the lorde but all shall knowe hym from the lowest to the hyghest Finally Iohn dooeth saie It is no neede that euery man dooe teache you but as the vnction teacheth you of all thinges whiche is true and is no lye What canst thou saye agaynst so manyfeste scriptures Ioiada To the woordes of Paule I aunsweare thus That Paul speaketh there of the lawe whyche kylleth vs as he dooeth declare more apertly in the .vii. chap. to the Romains And by the spirit he vnderstondeth faith and the consolacion or comforte of the gospell That it is so the texte of the whole chapter dooeth testifie Therefore this place helpeth nothyng your errour For whan we speake of the woorde of god we dooe not vnderstonde the bare and deade letter or voyde sonnde of it but the word well and truely vnderstonded and as it is in veary dede And as for that that Chryste dooeth promesse a spyrite vnto his dysciples teachynge them all thynges wee dooe admytte and beleue it But that spyrite can not bee contrarye to Chryste nor teacheth any other thyng than Chryst hath taught Therfore doeth he adde by and by teachyng you what so euer I haue saied vnto you What dooe these thynges perteyne to the spirite of the Anababtistes whiche teacheth contrary thynges to the spirite of Christe The prophecies of Ioel and Hieremye are vnderstonded of that same spirite that Christe dooeth bothe promesse and geue to his disciples as it is euidently sene in the seconde chapiter of the Actes and the eyght to the Hebrues Iohn in his epistell whan he speaketh of the vnctyon dooeth playnely expounde hym selfe saiynge I haue written vnto you that ye bee not deceyued or that ye dooe not suffer your selues to be brought in to errour whyche thyng will then come to passe if ye dooe stedfastely abyde in the doctrine of the spirite whiche ye haue harde at the begynnynge and swarue not at all from it The holy ghoste is the spirite of truthe which canne neither lye nor repugne against hym selfe beyng all waies constaunte vnchaungeable euery where lyke vnto hym selfe Now no man can denaye but that the same euerlastyng vnchaungeable and holy spirite hath inspyred the holy scriptures in to holy mens hertes and myndes Whereby it foloweth necessarily that the same spirite which speaketh agaynste the meanyng of the spirite that dooeth speake and expresse hym selfe in the diuine scriptures is not of god but rather an humaine mayne affection whyche if it bee styffe maie bee deseruyngly called a deauelysshe spyryte as Chryste dooeth proue agaynste the Iues. Iohn viii Or canst thou thynke in thy mynde that spirite to bee good whiche contemneth the cleare manyfeste pure and holy scriptures and when by them he is conuicted of errour doeth boste an other spirite whiche shoulde teache cleane cōtrary thinges Is not this to despise y ◠spirite of y ◠scriptures and to repugne against hym As though our spirit meaneth truely and the spirit of the scriptures most falsely Where haue the Anababtistes learned to set their spirit against y ◠scriptures yea and preferre hym to the holy worde of god Symon But who hath geuen you this libertee to iudge al thynges after the litterall sence or letter Ioiada That we dooe not as thou doest interprete the letter But we saie that the worde of god conteined in the scriptures of the Bible is a touche stone wherby spirites are tried For what spirite so euer doeth agree with the scriptures is of god the father of truthe And agayne what spirite so euer is contrary to the holy scriptures is of the dyuelle the father of lyes Seyng therfore that the spyrite of the Anababtistes wil not bee ruled by the holy scriptures but preferreth hym selfe to the woorde of god callynge by crafte the woorde of god a bare letterre yea and sette set him selfe iudge ouer it he cānot be of god For if he were of god he would come to light and speake that same thyng that the holy ghost doeth speake in al the holy scriptures But now sith y t he doeth not depende of the scriptures but will be at his own lybertie it is a token that it is a craft and subtiltie of the deuell whiche doeth alwayes scatter repugne against god Sy. Thou speakest these thynges mightily and stronglye but withoute the word of god And this is your familier custome to speake many thinges without scriptures As touching the spirite what he techeth I haue brought and alledged places and testimonies oute of the scriptures But that the spirit ought to be tried by scriptures or rather mācipated and bounde vnto them and not be at his own libertie it is thy parte for to proue Or peraduenture thou dost prefer the creature vnto the creatour Ioi What and yf I should say also My spirite hath taught me this thyng What couldest thou do or say vnto me Sym. But that is not to aunswere Ioi Nor ye do not answere sufficiently when ye bost your spirite without or agaynst the scriptures But in this thīg we do learne that whan it pleaseth you ye vse the scriptures agayne whan ye see to be expede ent ye boaste aud aduance your spirit Whan I affirme that the spirite must be tried by the scriptures I doe not mancipate nor subdue the creatour vnto y ◠creature but I will that the thynge whiche is vncertaine be tryed proued by y t which is certaine and that any spirit be tried by the holy spirit of god that is to saie by the scriptures whether he agreeth with hym self or not And if he be like euery where vnto him self to be receiued if not to be refused
reiected as false deceitful But whan ye speake of the spirite ye doe vnderstond a bare creature For your spirit is not the holy ghost but a carnall affection Sy. Ye dooe yet without any scriptures of the Bible enhaunce and magnifie the letter Io. Not so but rather we here ground ourselues bothe vpon y e scriptures of god and vpon examples Sy. Shew therfore y t the truthe muste be tryed by the scriptures not rather w t a fre spirit without scriptures Io. By thy wordes doe I perceine what thinge doeth begile you that is y t ye do seuer these .ii. thinges beyng vnited inuisebly knitted together y t is to saie the spirite the scriptures which can nor ought to be separated asunder the one from y e other For whē we name y e scriptures we doe vnderstande y e expressed worde of y t spirit For as y e voice or sound of y e worde can in no wise be separated from y e lyuely breth of y e liuing creature So y e scriptures can not be diuided from y e spirit y t inspireth thē for y e scripture is y e expressed wil of god but now wil I bryng y e testimonies places w t thou requirest our lord Iesu Christ vnto whom y e heuēly father did geue witnes from heuen who hath receiued the holy ghost after no measure did not despise y e sciptures in so muche that he dyd corroborate all his saiynges by them onely and did commaund that the Iewes should trye both his woordes and factes by the scriptures Ihon. v. and Luke xvi He biddeth them to lyfte vp their eyes to Moyses the prophetes and not to apparaunte spirites He reprouyng also the Saduceis did shewe that this was the cause of their errour be cause that they were ignoraunt in scriptures or neglected them Mark .xii. The Apostles as we may vnderstand by the booke of the Actes did receiue abundātly in the beginyng the holy gost that by a sertaine visible tokē And yet not withstandyng did thei not therfore forsake or contēne y e scriptures nor boste their spirite against thē But rather did proue strengthen all their sermons with the worde of god preachyng nothyng els but the pure and playne scriptures These thynges are euydently proued by the epistels of Peter Iohn doeth plainely shewe and teache that the spirites owght to be tried whether thei bee of god or not .i. Io. iiii Wherby it is euydent enowgh that spirites owght to be tried and that thei be not so free as the Anahabtistes will haue them And how thei muste bee proued it is manifestly declared in y t place Paule whiche was rauisshed in to the thyrde heauen and dyd learne his gospel of Iesu Christ beyng hym selfe the chosen vessel of god full of the holy ghost and heauenly wisedome neuer the lesse before the kyng Agrippa he doeth testify that he dyd teache nothyng beside Moises and the prophetes Act. xxvi In the epistell to the Galathians y e first chapter he saieth thus if I or an angel of heauen shulde preach vnto you any other thīg then ye haue harde let it be anathema or acursed He also warnyng and teachyng Tymothe that be shoulde beware of false and erroneous doctrines dyd directe and sende hym to the redyng of scriptures But reade thou the iii. chapiter of the seconde epistell to Tymothe and it shall appere what we owght to iudge and thynke of the Anababtistes secte what of the spirite and of the scriptures Sy. That place is knowen well enowghe and I am almost persuaded But this vexed my mynde that Paule saieth that a spirituall man iudgeth all thynges but he is iudged of no body Ioiada I longe to knowe of the of what spirite Paule doeth speake there Symon But I haue leauer to heare it of the Ioiada Considre the woordes y t go before For he saieth thus We haue not receiued the spirit of the world but the spirit whiche is of god that we may know what thynges haue ben geuen vnto vs by Chryst Symon But to what purpose did Paul speke here of the holy ghost Ioiada I aske of the wheather y t same selfe spirite dyd not inspyre the scriptures Symon Truely that same selfe spirite Ioiada Seyng therfore that it is all one and bothe the same spirite that Paule speaketh of here and that whiche speaketh in the scriptures haue I not proued that Paule by a spirituall man did not vnderstond hym which boasteth I can not tell what spirite despisyng in the meane season the scriptures but suche a spirituall man as is and will be ruled and gouerned by the holy ghost that waie that he sheweth and expresseth hym selfe in the holy scriptures He therfore that striueth againste the holy scripture and inspiracyon of the holy ghost can not bee that spirituall man whome Paule doeth speke of Now if he be not spirituall he can not iudge but he muste be iudged The Anababtistes therfore can iudge nothyng but ought to bee iudged and tryed by the worde of god Hathe not here the spirite of the Anababtistes lost bothe his win ges But I do remembre other ii places whiche dooe vtterly stoppe the mouthes of the Catababtistes The first is in the .x. chapiter of the Actes touchyng Cornelius the centurion which although he was elected by god yet not withstandyng beyng so tawght by the angell did sende messangers to fetche Peter y t he migh heare by hym the preachīg of our sauiour Iesu christ If that the spirite should disanulle and abolisshe the scriptures it shulde folow y t this outwarde preachyng and such like thinges wer done in vaine The other is in the .xvi. chapiter concernyng the Thessaloniens whiche after that thei had harde the preachyng of Paule dyd daily seke and serche the scriptures to knowe wheather Paule dyd teache true or not Which thing thei wolde not haue done if the spirites shoulde not be tried by the scriptures wherefore what so euer the Anababtistes dooe teache concernyng this thynge is false and erroneous and not vnlike vnto the errour of Montanus Sym. What monstruous thyng is y t Ioiada This Montanus about .xiii. hundred yeres a go was a great heretike who did almost speake of the spirite as the Anababtistes dooe For thei do cal in again the old abolisshed errours as it shall appere hereafter Sym. Go forth I praie y e and let vs discusse the argumentes of the second conclusion For I can not beleue that none of the saynttes whiche thyng thou doest affirme stifly did thruste them selues into the office of common preachers excepte thei were called What other thyng is this but as the bisshop of Rome hath done in times paste to hyde the truthe frome the commons that none saue onely thei that are learned dare speake and talke of it Where as not withstandynge god did manifest him self to the littell ones and not to the wise Mathew xi Ioiada I will doe it
accordyng to the preceptes of the apostle Donatus dyd gather a particuler Church Nonatus lykewyse bothe in Affrica And yet not withstandynge none of theim both was called or sent by god And their Churche also were no Churches but conuenticles or assembles of Heretikes Symon What thynkest thou by the saiyng of s Paule .i. Corin. xiiii where he doth geue free libertie vnto all men to preache or interprete the Scriptures Ioiada I am of the same selfe opinion that Paule is Two or three sayth he may speake in the church Let the other heare and iudge Finally if it be reuelated to an other syttyng by let the other holde his peace And by and by it followeth For ye may al prophecy one after another that all may learne and haue cousolacion Symon By these wordes it appeareth that Paule dothe not geue libertie to euery man to preache what he listeth whē he nameth ii or .iii. and byddeth the other to heare to geue attendance to that that the Prophetes in the newe Testament suche as do expounde the scriptures are called Prophetes do expounde and set furthe out of the scriptures Nor he doth not gyue lysence to the hearers to interrupte the sermons of the Prophetes excepte it be when any thyng is lefte or peruersly expounded by the Prophet or interpretor By this it foloweth that it is not semely ne comely that any mā shuld interrupt if the truthe be sufficiētly enucleated shewed muche lesse that any man shoulde vnder suche pretence and colour sewe in or bring in his errors I doo see perceiue that the effecte of the matter doeth consist in thys thyng If it be necessary if any thyng be omitted and lefte by them that are Prophetes that oughte not to bee omitted or whiche beynge lefte maye dooe harme and agayne which being shewed may edifi the churche that then it may be shewed vnto them by any mā but that with al sobrenesse and charitie If nothing be wanting or lackynge all the audience to holde their ptace Ioiada Thou takest the ryght sense of it For it foloweth by and by The spirite of the Prophetes is subiect to the Prophetes For God is not the auctor of confusiō but of peace The Holy ghost doth not breake furth rashely with affection and stryfe but is treatable nor he dooeth not styffely contende for euery lyght matter but suffereth him self to be instructed and taughte so geueth easely place to him that hathe better vnderstandyng But the Anababtistes are farre from al such thinges boastyng neuerthelesse a spirit but as Iudas did boast his Apostleship sayut Iames dyd not without a cause warne vs saiyng Let not many masters be among you knowynge that we shall receyue greatter dampnaciō or iudgement that is to say we that are teachers Symon But here thou haste brought me into a greter dout For now I aske the Whether of theym two ▪ is greatter the Prophet vnto whom the spirit is subiect or the spirit If thou sayest that man is gretter then the spirite beware that thou doest not attribute to much to a mortall and frayle man If the spirite is hygher how can that thyng which is gretter be subiecte to a thyng that is lesse If so bee that thou preferrest the spirite vnto men agayne wyll haue the saiyng of Paule to be true I do not perceiue by what reason it can stande Or howe can a man be greatter then the Spirite whiche maketh hym a Prophet Ioiada Thou dooest aske righte well this question But it is to be noted that Paul doeth not here take the spirite for the holy ghost whiche is the thyrde persone in trinitie but for the gyfte operacion of the spirite of God The sense and meanyng of this place is therfore that the gyfte of prophecy is so in the power of the Prophet that hath it that he maye bothe speake holde his peace in the congregacion of the sayntes when and as long as it is expedient for the hearers For they are not so instructed and moued with the spirit as mad and phantasticall men are that they shoulde all cryout at once with an vnsemely clamor murmuryng one agaynst another with a debatefull contencion stryfe For so one coulde not vnderstande another The spirite of God is gentle treatable and peasable not stirrynge or mouyng any man to contenciō and debate but to peace and vnytie Wherfore he sayeth ye may Prophecy all one after another To the which exposiciō Theophilactus agreith interpretynge this place after thys maner The spirite that is to say the grace of the holy ghost which is in thee the operacion or workyng that hath inuaded thee is subiecte to the gyfte or grace of another man which is moued to Prophecy that is to say dothe geue place hearing But now if thou be so pleased let vs go aboute the thirde Conclusion Symon I am well content begynne thou The. VI. Treatyse or Dialogue Of the Vnitie of the Churche against the Sectes of the Anabaptistes Ioiada IChynke that thou wylt say nothyng agaynst the thyrd conclusion For what canne be sayde more truly then that Christ and his Apostles dyd alwayes congregate or assemble the Churche and that thei dyd neuer tumultuate or moue sedision for outwarde and temporall thynges Or is there any man that can say the contrarye Symon I wyl shew hym vnto the by by that is to say Christ whiche dothe saye I am come not to bring peace but the swoorde Ioiada Thou dooest writhe and wrest the wordes of Christ For he speaketh nor these wordes of his Churche that they shoulde disagree within themselues as the Anabaptistes do moue tumulte in those churches where Christ and the Gospell is preached sincerely but doth expres the nature of the infidels whiche doo persecute the faythfull For whersoeuer Christ is preched they that are godly do receyue and embrace him gladly and they that are vngodly doo bothe let and persecute Christ and his Disciples Now Christ doth cal this discenciō a sword which sworde is not among the godly in the Churche but the infidels do vse it agaynst them that ar godly Dothe not Esaie say that there is no peace to the vngodly The cognisaunce or badge of them that ar godly is Charitie Peace and Concord Wherfore the Lorde dothe call them that be peasable or loue peace blessed and chyldren of God Mat. v. Symou I do easely graunte that peace and vnitie ought to be in the Church But that Christ and hys Apostles dyd neuer moue sediciō for temporall thynges thou doest affirme it scantly Ioiada yea and truly also or elles shewe thou the contrary Symon In the .xv. chap. of the Actes we do reade that Paule and Barnabas had no small discencion and reasonyng agaynst them which dyd teache Circumsicion Who wyll deny circumcision to be an outwarde thyng Ioiada I vnderstande call outward thynges that dooe helpe nothyng to our saluacion perteining to the body more then to the soule and
which though he hath feeleth in him self sinne and weakenesse of the flesh beyng tickeled with sensualitie affections yet not withstaÌ„dyng dothe not geue the bridell vnto the flesh ne vnto synne but resisteth styll and is alwayes a frayde to fall And if so be that he chaunceth to fall by and by draweth he backe his foote and repentyth Sy But they saye that a man may be without syn Ioi We are without synnes as dogges be without fleas in the moneth of August O abhominacion that men should thinke or presume suche thingê I passe ouer here that by this opinion they doo blaspheme the veritie of the gospel yea take vtterly away the grace mercy of God For where synne is not there is no grace where preuaricacion and transgression is not there is no Remission amonge them there is no transgression ergo the grace of God is not a mong them Is not this to abolish the grace of God What shall I saye but that these mad braynes do fal into another heresye that is to saye in to the heresy of that blasphemous maÌ„ Pelagius who dyd denye the grace of God magnifiyng and extollyng the strengthe of man He was .xi. C. yeares ago Sy. But they proue thys with scriptures Ioia The veritie of the scriptures dothe teache nothing so Beside that thou canst bring no exemple but the exemple of Lucifer which woulde be lyke vnto God as they wyll be without synne wheras no man can be pure and without synne but God onely Sy. Dothe not Iohn say that he whiche is of God synneth not Ioia He synneth not to death Sy. Thou doest so expouÌ„d it or this is thyne exposicion Ioai Consider the wordes that go afore and thou shalte vnderstand that I saye true Sy What synne is that or is not a man without synne when he synneth not to death Io. Christ saieth vnto the Iues If ye do not beleue ye shal dye in your synnes Ergo vnfaythfulnesse is a deadly synne or syn to death And though a faythful beleuer is without this syn that is to say without infidelitie yet he is not without vyce or syekenesse which he must be ware of always lest he be drouned in syn or soiled defiled w t the abhominable fylthynesse of sinnes therfore it followeth in Iohn We do know that all that is borne of god sineth not but he that is borne of god doth kepe himself theuyll toucheth him not So therfore the godly sineth not though he falleth by frailnes yet notwithstaÌ„ding that malicious Satan can not catche him For the diligent study labor that the godly dothe take in shunnynge auoidyng synne that is to say faith doth that syn is not imputed for syn It is written in the .viii. Rom. That ther is no condemnacion vnto theÌ„ that be in christ which do not walke after the flesh but after the spirit Els saint Iohn doth say in the same self epistle If we do say we haue no syn we deceyue our selfê truth is not in vs. If we do coÌ„fesse our sines god is both faithful rightwise to forgeue vs our sinnes and to clense vs from our iniquitie If we do say we haue no synne we make him a lier his worde is not in vs. There be many suche places euery where in the scriptures Dauid doth crye out O Lorde do not enter into iudgement with thy seruaunt for in thi sight no maÌ„ shal be iustified And agayne if thou lookest extremely vpon our synnes o lord who is able to abyde it In the xliii of Esa the lord doth speke thus by the Prophet vnto the Iues which dyd glorify boast them selues in the rightwysnes of y e law I am he I am he saith y â— lord that taketh away thyne iniquities for myne owne sake wyll not remembre thy sines Bring me into remembraunce let vs be iudged together telle furth if thou hast any thyng to iustifie thy selfe Thy father hath synned fyrst and thyne interpreters haue gone out of the way None of the most holy men were euer without sinne which thyng manifestly appereth in Adam Noe Abraham Isaac Iacob Moyses Aaron ` Dauid Iosias Ezechias Peter Paul Matew c. Therfore Iob speaketh truly Iob .ix. What am I that I should answer him and speake with him with my wordes which though I had some rightwysnesse wyl not answer but entreate my iudge If I wyll iustifye my selfe my mouth shall condemne me if I say that I am innocent my mouth shall proue me wicked c. Paule in the .iii. Rom. sayeth that al men haue sined do want the glory of god In y â— .xiii. of Ihon christ sayeth he that is washed hath no neade but to wash his feete for he is all cleane If he be all cleane what neade hathe he to wash his feete If he hath neade to wash his feete how can he be all cleane Therfore we ar clensed purified with the blood of Christ that was shed vpon the crosse from the filthines of syn be all cleane But it followeth not by this that we be no more i the flesh or that we be no more synners For the dregges of syn do remayne in our feete that is to say in our affections as long as we liue walke in this dust i and foule way we are soyled contaminated with the filthynesse of synne which we neade with perpetuall study and daily care to washe awaie and afterwardes to wype out these filthinesses with gret inward grefe repentaunce and teares in the vertue of the passion and death of Chryst Finally christ in the .xv. of Iohn saieth I am the trewe vine and my father is the husbande man He doeth take awaie euery bough in me that bringeth forth no fruite euery bowgh y â— bryngeth for the fruite he doeth purge make cleane that he mai bryng forth more fruite By the which saiynges we maie vnderstande y e we that are in Christ thorowe faith as a bowgh is in y â— vine doo bryng forth fruite liuyng godly haue neuerthelesse nede to be made cleane and that by the spirit and vertue of Christ Now y e which is made cleane must nedes to be vnpure vnclene So we that ar in Christ alredy ar made clene daily for we do offend in many thinges and no man is liuyng that sinneth not and that hath no nede of this clensyng Except the Anababtistes whiche in their hathe be made so pure clene by their water wherwith thei do wash their disciples among whom water doeth take awaie that which the blood of Christ doeth not take awaie in them that are godly Sy. I do not see yet proued that he which falleth againe after that he hath knowen the truthe doeth daily fynd grace pardon Io. It is sufficientli proued by y â— saiyngs of Iohn and by the exemple of Dauyd and of Peter For if we be all synners and yet neuerthelesse doo entre into the