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A86667 The rebukes of a reviler fallen upon his own head, in an answer to a book put forth by one Iohn Stelham, called a minister at Terlin in Essex. Wherein is shewed unto all spiritual men, that he himself is justly proved to be a contradictor of the scriptures, while he falsly accuses others thereof, that are clear, and the saying is fulfilled upon him, he is fallen into the pit, which he digged for others, for even that way which he calls heresie, do we worship the God of our fathers. By R.H. Hubberthorn, Richard, 1628-1662.; Burrough, Edward, 1634-1662. 1657 (1657) Wing H3229; Thomason E919_7; ESTC R207520 62,017 83

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proofs are impertinent what is this to prove Infants Baptisme so that is passed by here as making arguments against Believers Baptisme except one professing that were our present adversary but in this he is pursued from all the Scriptures he cannot prove in justice that ever Infants Baptisme was either commanded or practised though he craftily wind about never so much in his Imaginations and consequences And in the general I answer Much by us have been written and spoken to this purpose so our judgements in this charge is fully known of which we are not ashamed before men as being fully justified herein in the sight of the Lord and so as to this particular more need not be said Again in the 12th Head of Scripture Contradiction as he saith concerning the Lords Supper I. S. makes much ado because of our denyall of carnall Inventions and Imitations practised by many in the exercise of that called the Supper of the Lord though with one heart and mind we say and witness that Christs flesh and blood is our meat and drink and none hath life in them without it yet doth receive it in the Spirit and power of God and doth bear our testimony against Imitations and false likenesses set up in the World as the Wicked and Prophane people such as live in pride and wickedness and covetousness both teachers and people eating a little Bread and drinking Wine so many times a year in such a form and manner and way as Christ nor his Apostles never practised such things in and no change wrought among people but both before and after if not in the very time fulfilling all wickedness and unrighteousnesse in words and wayes and thoughts yet by false suggestion from their Teachers believing vainly themselves to be the better or Saitns for the practice of such things whereas they do the more thereby vex the Lords soul and grieve his Spirit by hypocrisie and deceit this we call carnal Inventions and doth deny it in the presence of the Lord that it is evill and not accepted of God but condemned in his sight I. S. proves not that any thing which Christ instituted to be practised among the Saints only even was practised in the World among such who are not called neither sanctified and this is abomination to the Lord to practise the Saints words or wayes and have not the Spirit of the Father which we cannot see among the people of this Age no nor manage them professing to be selected Church members but pride and envy abounds among them all and in that spirit of disobedience in which they live to the Ordinances of Christ they have no right to practise that which only is to be practised among them that have the Spirit of the Father and nothing that Christ instituted for his Saints do we deny in its life and age but lives are changed and Antichrist hath roled and even the things which once he instituted your practise of them who are poluted are abomination to him and this is a full Answer in generall as to the thing though I pursue h●m not in every particular word and argument to lay open his folly but our judgement in this is known he that can receive it let him and the belief of the wicked we shall not begg in these things we are approved of God and in the denyal of all false Imitations and who is he that shall condemn In the 14th Head concerning Prayer Concerning Prayer we do not contradict the Scripture in our practice I. S. is the lyer herein who hath made it a subject to treat two leaves upon for praying in the Spirit and by the Spirit and in publick and private too we own and do practise as is known to thousands our enemies can witness for us and according to the Scripture too and not contradicting to it any way but this is the offence against him at which he is troubled that we should deny the prayers of the Pharisees or of such who are in the steps of the Pharisees viz. who for a pretence make long Prayers and stands praying in the Synagogues who are out of Christs and the Apostles Doctrine and the prayers and practises of such we do not deny according to the Scripture which saith the sacrifice of the wicked are abomination to the Lord and they shal receive greater condemnation who makes long prayers for a pretence as it is manifest concerning many in this Generation and against the praying of the Hypocrites and of hirelings who pretends to pray in love to Souls when as if they had not a great sum of mony from the people would not pray among them but seek a place to pray at among such who wou●d give them money and hire and this praying is for a pretence and we do deny it in publick and doth not offend God herein though we vex I. S. hereby because some will not worship the beast and bow a hat off while he is praying in an Idols Temple which he complains of in I. P. though he himself that prayes have a Cap on and himself confesses not wicked mans prayers are accepted publick or private and here he hath condemned all his own praying who confesses he is wicked and sinfull and his heart is old and lying Let all take notice of this which if he had not confessed it it is sufficiently proved then why shall he ever hereafter be offended seeing his prayers are not accepted according to his own confession if any tel him so or declare against his praying and before any can truly pray they must receive the Spirit of the Father and them we know who are not led by the Spirit of the Father them and their prayers are to be declared against by the Saints and are condemned in the sight of God And I. S. saith If this counsel be followed viz. waiting in the Light till the Spirit leading be known it makes known nothing of Publick Ministers Church officers Baptisme Lords Supper publick order of prayer nor of Christ as Mediator nor of the Spirit of promise c. The light that every man hath makes manifest nothing of this he sayeth he in this is a Lyar and slanderer of the people of God who are led by the moving of the Spirit in the light of the word Christ Jesus that lighteth every man and owneth the publick Ministry of Christ which is received by the holy Ghost and Church and Baptism and Christ as Mediator and the Spirit of promise and all these thing all the Saints upon earth who have the spirit of Christ shal witness against I. S. herein to be a lyar of the light and Spirit of God and so is a transgressor and his wickedness may largely be laid open but the least of the children of light may see his folly and madness who also lyingly saith that Quakers they nourish up people in the light that every man hath which is the light of Christ Jesus in opposition to Scripture
of what they falsely accuse us in words for such who walks in the steps of the false Prophets as he and they doth that preach for hire and takes Gi●ts and Rewards for preaching are contrary to all the true Ministers of Christ and the Scripture and the Spirit that gave it forth condemns them and much as to this we have publickly spoken and written and so here I need say the lesse though much might be said to manifest I. S. folly and vanity though they that plant a vineyard may justly eat the fruit thereof yet what is this to purpose he is a thief that eats of the fruit of that which he hath not planted but is hired thither for so much per Sermon or per annu● and plants nothing for the Lord and he that preaches the Gospel may live of it but this shames I. S. and this Generation of Teachers who many of them might begg bread at peoples doors had they not a Law by violence to compell maintenance from them which thing is a very shame to all righteousness which is practised by most of the Priests of England at this day grievous to be related what unjust proceedings are acted upon the poor people by unjust judgements against them for to maintain Ministers so called what is the thing that I. S. pleads for Tithes or a hundred or two hundred pound a year he is a Lyar to say that we contradict the Scripture because we cannot uphold this but must bear witness against it so whilst he falsely charges us with contradicting the Scripture in the very same thing he and his Generation are found in this practise contrary to all the Ministers of Christ that ever was sent by him and in the very practice of the Deceivers Antichrists and false Prophets in making merchandize of people through covetousness in preaching for hire and in seeking for their gain from their quarter and this is the very truth let I. S. and all his fellows read their own contradiction to the example of all the Ministers of Christ in their cursed practise of maintenance which is the greatest oppression this day in England and this is their grief against us because God hath opened our mouths to declare against them and to shew their folly and wickednesse unto all people and when the Law of the Land ceases to maintain them which will come sooner then they expect then may they begg their bread or perish for want and that is all the fruit that their vineyard of wild Brambles will bring forth to them and if every particular of his words should be searched much rottenness might be let forth but in plainness I have spoken as to the truth of things in pleading for truth and in denying his deceits and the oppression of hirelings which I cannot call Ministers maintenance His 18th Head concerning immediate Calling In this we do not contradict the Scipture I. S. is a Lyar herein also but we say such as are called of God are called by his Spirit and lead with it and fulfills the will and work of God in the Spirit and such as are called by the Spirit of God are appoved by all the Saints of God who with the same Spirit bears witness to such as are called by it and speaks by it the Ministry of God is not of Man nor by Man but by the revelation of Jesus Christ which is not learned by natural arts but received in the Holy Ghost and this the Scripture bears witness to but the Call to the Ministry by naturall learning at Oxford and Cambridge this I deny and trample upon and all your arts and knowledge and humate study and languages is not able to make a Minister of Christ this I do affirm though they approve one another yet are they not approved of God without his Spirit and they that have his Spirit denyes naturall learning as to be made a Minister of Christ hereby and E. B. his words are owned transcribed by I. S. cited page 16. in the warning c. and all that he saith doth not prove that any of the Ministers of Christ were called by the Church or approved unto that work of the Ministry by them who were not called by the Spirit and guided with it he saith the sending of God is two-fold and for this he hath no Scripture to prove it and so holds forth that which the Scripture will not evidence And further he saith he pretends to no such Call of an Apostle if he have not the same Call by the same Spirit as the Apostles had he is no Minister of Christ and in measure he hath confessed to be without the same Call as the Apostles was called with and will not pretend such a Call Again He falsly Charges R. F. with Crucifying the Ministers of Christ which is a Lye and of the Devil though none of us may spare to call Hirelings greedy dumb Doggs and devourers and lazy sheperds and in this we do not contradict the Scriptures nor work offence towards God nor our neighbour And he concludes Who of us we or they shall have the worst of it in Conclusion the day shall declare unto that day we are willing to come by which we and all the blind Priests of England shall be manifest and we know Liars such as I. S. shall not have the better who is to us made manifest already to be out of the way and out of the power and life of God His 19th Head concerning immediate Teaching In this we do not contradict the Scripture as I. S. falsly charges us withal but doth say that we are taught of God and needs no man to reach us but as the anointing of God which abides in us and the promise of God is fulfilled upon us Jer. 31. we are all taught of God from the least of us to the greatest with whom the Covenant of God is established and this is the cause wherefore we let forth our selves to the world who are yet in the unconverted state that they also ma● come to the knowledge of the wayes and teachings of God in the Spirit and may come into the Covenant of peace where none need to say know the Lord but all these are taught of him yea and immediately too by his Spirit and this we do witness and the Lord doth witness with us though the unbelieving heart of I. S. and his fellows cannot believe it but doth gainsay it as being contrary to the Scripture when as themselves doth contradict the Scripture in denying it so proving themselves guilty of what they do accuse us of falsly but this is that their folly may appear to all men as it doth to us and I. S hath belyed the Scriptures Dan. 9. 1. 1 Tim 4. 14. in saying it is contrary to those Scriptures to say the teaching of God is immediate let the Reader try and I. S. saith he is yet to learn the promise of the immediate teachings of God to be
generation of ungodly and when we read the plain words of Christ Luke 17. The Kingdom of Heaven is within you he saith we madly wrest the reading of the words when we neither ●dd nor diminish now he seems to say It is the Kingdom of heaven among you and not the kingdom of heaven within you and so blames the Scripture and confounds the doctrine of many of the Independents who say the Scriptures is believers Rule but he seems to charge the Scripture with false translation and therefore is subject to alteration and so cannot be the rule of Believers according to his own account and thus by wicked men are we blamed when we do not speak according to Scripture language and now as wickedly charged by I. S. for speaking just in the Scripture expressions with madly wresting the words but thus it was before and whatsoever we do now by our enemies must be reviled and our words abused contrary to our innocent intents Then in the end of his Epistle he desires the Prayers of his Church that his Reply may be accompanied with power according to the truth of it Indeed so it shall and no more according to the truth of it which is very f●lshoods and deceits so shall the power of the Lord confound it and turn it into folly and confusion as may be seen by a sober man who this following doth with patience read and weigh Then many things is uttered by him in his Epistle to the Reader he seems to shew he saith how R. F. and his Associates have made up A Litter and Fardel of Erronious Divinity and secretly charging us with making up of what we profess from some Writers before us But to this I Answer His reproachful words Litter and Fardel and Erronious we bear with patience rather rejoycing that we are accounted worthy of the reproach for the truths sake from an envious man than to be angry with our reproaches But however let him and all our enemies know what we profess and bear witness of we receive not from man but from God even the Gospel which we testifie of by the revelation of Jesus Christ in us we received it and informs others to the same door which is by our Ministry that they may receive the same and this is but his poor shift to undervalue the power and truth of Jesus in the sight of men who would falsly make men believe That our Doctrines are but the spawn of many ancient Errors as he saith brooded by some Moderne Writers when as the Doctrine of Christ and the Apostles we bear witness to by the same Spirit and not to any other Authors who were without the Spirit of Jesus and all these shifts ●aves not the Priests of England from being discovered and their deceits and abominations to be made manifest by our Light and Doctrine which is the Light of Christ and the Doctrine of the holy men of God before us And further his wickedness appears by reproaching and reviling dead men such as H. N. Jacob B. W. E. with others whom I confidently believe were men in their Generation more honest than himself and more upright with God and sincere in what was made known to them than this same reviler who is set to revile both living and dead if they do but cross his fancy Let all men take notice of these things and of his rebukes with an evil heart whom the Lord doth and will rebuke by the Spirit of his mouth in the day of his just judgements who art a reviler of the just both living and dead and all along in that Epistle as in the rest of his Book which is the Rebukes of a Reviler he bends his very tongue as the poyson of Asps being under it against the Quakers reckoning them with the Papists and such others but this is but as the Pharisees his fore-fathers did who numbered the Son of God and condemned him with transgressors and betwixt two theeves And in the end he desires his Reader to receive in Love what in his Book is found agreeable to the Spirit of God in Scripture truth agreed so let it be and therefore many things in his Book which is not given forth by the Spirit of God nor according to the Scripture truth which the honest Reader may find upon a serious reading and search with the Spirit of God and according to the Scripture is to be judged and condemned and not received what shall the honest Reader receive this for truth That the Light of Christ Jesus is A Preverse Principle and that Christ blessed Infants Baptism with very many such like things of the like nature proceeding from the same spirit which is proved not to be of God but of the Devil for every tree is known by its fruit and every spirit by its works and words many other things more devilish if more devilish can be he charges us withal in a most unreasonable manner that our Religion is the Fort of Babel and that Jesuitical Plots and Designes are carried on by some of us and Quakerism is built upon the fourfold pillar of Papistry with such like the very transcribing of his words shewes his wicked spirit by his unsavory words which things we do deny in the presence of the Lord and are clear in his sight from these divilish accusations though I. S. play the Devils part in this Epistle as well as in his whole Book and is an accuser of the brethren and is to be cast out and judged with the life of God and to give testimony against his lyes and slanders is sufficient Answer and the next time he enterprises the like Work we demand of him witness of his words what these Jesuitical Flots and Designes are we do carry on Which slander is so divelish could he prove what he saith his words would take away our lives but to raise the unclean spirits against us though the Nations is truly supposed the purpose of his words and not being content with what he himself can believe us in his work reaches to raise the rage of whole Nations to execute their fury as well as his own upon us and so his words gives ground to all the wicked that doth believe h●m for none else can to persecute the people and way of the Lord under the false account of being Plotters and of having ill Designes which things we stand witness against and seeks the peace of all men though he have bent his tongue for Lyes and brazen'd his face to utter them without fear or shame to suggest evil into mens minds that they may harm the upright but it is known by his words what lodgeth in the heart of such a person who thus openly and impudently doth slander just men to the taking away of life if any were so divilish to witness lyes and slanders as he is in forging of them and declaring of them and that to the Protector and his Council too but from these things we being
one with him are not from being guarded with a Popish Law and these are truly Romes Subjects who are guarded with his Law more than we are Romes Emissaries which secretly he would cast upon us and make the Protector and his Council believe it if their hearts be so hardened But better is thought upon concerning them though I. S. would make them evil suggesting evil into their hearts But a false Prophet is known by his Lyes and Slanders and secret smiting and then he saith He would have some of this Sect * more narrowly watched c. and stigmatized Oh cruelty out of the abundance of the heart his mouth utters like a Pot boyling with anger that cannot contain it within the mouth what lodges in the heart of this man consider what less then in their hearts who were Q●een Maries Jesuits and Priests if the Protector and Council would answer the cruel intent of his mind as Queen Mary did theirs Balaam or worse he is for he hath sought inchantment and would curse before they sent for him to do so but it shall return on his own head who is watched against for a Wolf and Devourer and stigmatzed for a Deceiver and false Deviner one who art marked for a false Prophet and known to be so by every one who is taught of God and in the end of all this secretly uttered wickedness and cruelty insinuatingly expressed to suggest evil into the minds of men more honest than himself he wishes for Blessing upon his Highness and Honours that they may discern true Spirits from false such who proceed out of the mouth of the false Prophet from such as proceeds from the Father and from the Son indeed of such a gift of discerning they have need and by the fruits they may try every Spirit and in a just tryal by just judgement are thou tryed and thy spirit is made manifest to be the spirit which proceeds out of the mouth of the D●agon who wars against the Saints and out of the mouth of the B●ast who hath many Heads and many Horns which Beast arose up in the Apostacy since the Apostles dayes and thy Spirit is made manifest to be that spirit of the false Prophet who deceive the Nations for thy fruits doth discover thee a lyar aslanderer a perverter of the right way of God art thou proved and such things proceeds out of the mouth of the false Pro and so let them beware of thy Spirit who art not guided by the Spirit of Christ Jesus nor of the Father but a worker of darkness and a reviler of the light of Cstrist calling it false Prophet-like as being led with the Spirit of the Dragon and of the Beast Perverse Principle We have measured thy spirit to be as I have said and he that speaks otherwise speaks a lye and if the Protector and his Council believe otherwise they believe a lye and cannot obtain a blessing though thou with thy lying Spirit pray for them whom God the Father of blessings hears not but is against thee and this is my prayer The Lord rebuke thee and thy wicked tongue and give the Protector and his Council a better understanding than to believe thee else will the Lord make them cursed to themselves and to the Nations of them my heart hopes better things and this might serve for a full Answer to thy whole Book and by this little of thy work that I have viewed turned nto the sight of all art thou discovered to be an enemy to God and a secret envier of his people and by what thou hast said it appears what the rest of the whole matter can be an evil spirit cannot bring forth good works but yet a little further is thy matter unvayled for the sake of the upright And further I. S. after his wicked Presentation to the Rulers of this Nation with lyes and evil Speeches proceeding out of his old heart he writes an Epistle out of the same heart to the Church as he calls them wherein is many words uttered but altogether tasted with that leaven of his malice against Quakers and Quakerism who seems to be the greatest burthen upon his evil heart because truth is among them and if truth go on his deceit will be more made manifest wither and perish and so as subtilly as may be he would defend himself in the sight of his Church that his shame may not appear before them it may be lest his Hire should be abated and he seems to cast a cloak upon them but whether out of pure love to their Souls or for his own Gain and such a sum of Money God knowes however the least Child in the truth dwelling in the light sees his length and can measure his state and knows that good cannot come from an old lying heart and he speaks something of wondring after the beast and false Prophet but hath not described what the Beast is and the false Prophet And I refer the Reader to a Book called The Measure of the Times wherein the Priests of England such as I. S. is reproved according to the Scripture to be the very branches of the same Root of false Prophets which all the World wondered after in Johns time and though he speak much to his Church of Christ without and of his birth blood and his righteousness and justification thereby c. but to all that I say All are Reprobates but such in whom Christ is within them and none are justified but such nor hath any part in the inheritance of God though they may profess never so much of Christ without and what he hath done for others yet except he be within them too to change and renew them and give them power over all their sins their profession of him is vain I am no picker of Quarrels else many of his words might be searched which I run over hastily knowing his voice to be the voice of a stranger and not of Christ who never made use of an old sinful heart to pen Epistles to Churches But into this lets search he saith Christ blessed Infants-Baptism Where or when I ask proof of this and till then I say I. S. hath belyed Christ and the generation of the just Well may he belye us when he hath belyed Christ who could not bless that which there was not there was no Infants Baptism that ever we read of in his dayes sure people will be more wise than to be established through Lyes else their sin be upon them if through hardness of heart they be given up to believe Lyes that they may perish He speaks of a well ordered Conversation Indeed this seems Hypocrisie to exhort others their Churches to that which many of the Independen Teachers have not themselves who are Hirelings and takes Gifts and Rewards for Preaching and is in the way of all the Deceivers of old and they that do these things have not a well ordered Conversation but a Conversing with the
which ungodly sinners have spoken against him as Jude beareth witness and he also saw and Prophesied of Israel according to the flesh that they should do wickedly and slay him who was the light of the world And much more which is not written in the Bible And that which was manifest unto Paul which he wrote to the Corinthians in an Epostle not to company with fornicators that whole Epistle is not in the Bible 1 Cor. 5. 9. And likewise that which was revealed unto Paul in the dispensation of the grace of God given unto him how that by revelation God made known unto him the mystery which he wrote unto the Ephesians in a few words whereby they when they read they might understand his knowledge in the mystery of Christ which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men as it was then revealed unto his holy Angels and Prophets by the Spirit which Epistle in which that mystery was written is not in the Bible Ephes. 3. 3. And the Epistle which Paul wrote to the Laod●ceans which he charged the Colossians to read amongst them and that theirs should be read in the Church of the Laodeceans wherin his thanks and prayers to God was for their stedfastness in the truth wherein he made manifest the unprofitable talkers who went about to draw them from the truth of the Gospel and from their diligence in good works of eternal life as many vain and unprofitable talkers are in the world now doing the same work And whereas I. S. saith That the Epistle of Paul to the Colossians was read as the Word of the Lord in the Church of the Laodeceans Why doth he not as well ●ear witness that Pauls Epistle to the Laodeceans was read as the word of the Lord amongst the Colossians Col. 4. 16 And if he read in his Church the Epistle to the Colossians as the Word of the Lord why doth not he read to his people that which was written to the Laodeceans they both being given forth from one Spirit So let him consider of those things above mentioned and try whether his words will stand unreprovable 67 page saying God might have revealed more than is in the Scripture but he pleased not so to do In that page mentioning Samuel Moses and the Prophets Christ and the Apostles saying All that they have spoken is written both according to what was Written before and for substance the same Answ. What I have spoken and shall here speak may sufficiently make manifest that his words proceed from the old lying heart in which dwells no truth for I have shewed out of the Prophets and out of the Apostles many things which was both revealed and declared which is not in the Bible written And likewise I shall shew farther of the things concerning Christ testified by John and we know that his Testimony is true saying And there are also many other things which Jesus did the which if they should be written every one I suppose that even the world it se●f could not contain the Books which should be written John 21. 25. So that all is not written which was revealed wrote and spoken which if much more were written which was made manifest by it with that which is written could they not know the Lord their minds being from the light of Christ which doth reveal and make manifest that which may be known of God in them And many who have the Letter and are Ministers of it are sensual having not the spirit nor the word of God nor the testimony of Jesus and their Ministry is but as Chaff to the Wheat and the Lord is against them For what is the chaff to the wheat saith the Lord Jer. 23. Is not my word like a fire saith the Lord and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces Now many have the letter and know not the word of the Lord as a fire neither is the rock broken with the letter and such use their tongue for it is their own and the power of the Lord is not come over it such cause the People to err and doth not profit them being not sent nor commanded of the Lord for who are sent and commanded of the Lord the Lord useth their tongues to speak his words which he puts into their mouths and such words doth profit the people and not cause them to err being spoken according to the law which is light And the testimony of Jesus which is the Spirit of Prophesie and such do witness the Scriptures that as they cannot be broken so they cannot be denied by the Spirit which gave them fo●th to be a Declaration of those things which was reveale● known and believed But they are not that which they are a declaration of the letter testifies of the eternal life but it is not it neither gives it It testifies of the Light of the glorious Gospel shining in the heart which gives the light of the knowledge of the glory of God but it is not that light which gives that knowledge It testifies of the Way but Christ is the Way and of the Word but God is the Word and of Redemption but Christ is the Redemption and not the letter though it testifies of Justification and Sanctification but they are wrought by the Word in the grace and power of Christ and so every one who will own the Scriptures as they were given forth to be owned must first own that of God in them which is manifest to work in the Creature that which they testifie of that Christ the power of God they may witness working all their works in them and for them according to the Scriptures But contrary to the Scriptures I. S. from the root of Errour saith That the written letter is the spiritual Arm and Sword of the Spirit and that the very power of the written Letter puts Satan to flight● And in the same Page saith That the Devil hath Scripture in his mouth Answ. Let the People take notice and read the Scriptures and see if there be any such thing that the sword of the Spirit was ever in the Divels Mouth for the spiritual Armour which is said to be the Word of God But the Word of God w●ich is the sword of the Spirit is that by which he is to be destroyed and is in the mystery hid from him and all that follow his lusts But though the Devil which did not abide in the truth and his Ministers who are out of the truth may take the letter in their mouths as they have done and say its written so but the word of the Lord s not in their mouths which is the sword of the Spirit and such will use the letter in their mouths which cannot cease from sin whose eyes are full of Adultery beguiling unstable Souls their heart being exercised with covetous practises cursed children which have forsaken the right way and are in the Errour of Balaam loving the wages of
that we contradict our selves concerning sin and Christ but his whole Section I leave to be read in his Book and let the wise Reader judge whether his proof be any such thing only his lye will prove what he saith he saith We hold Christ to be in all this is his Lye for we say Christ is not in the Reprobate neither did we ever affirm that Christ is not in the Reprobate and so is not in all neither do we concerning Justification contradict our selves in the Spirit of God though so it may appeare to I. S. blind mind and so would make it appear to others by blind arguments by his own meaning Again I. S. would charge self-contradiction upon because we bear witness to the New Covenant and doth say the children of God are taught of God and needs no man to teach them but as the anoynting within them and yet doth write and print here he saith we condemne in others what we allow in our selves Now to all honest people this is no contradiction neither a condemning in others what we allow in our selves for therefore we write and print and speak that all may come to the knowledge of this thing and may be converted to God and know his teaching within them but what would I. S. have said of John who told them they needed no man to teach them but as that within them and yet did write Epistles to them very like he would have called this contradictions And the same is our cause who doth and must do though I. S. and his companions be grieved therewith because their folly is laid open thereby print and write and speak that people through the Ministry be brought to know the teaching of God in themselves and yet herein in the light of the Spirit of God do we not contradict our selves let I. S. say what he will neither do we allow in our selves what we condemn in another this is one of I. S. his lyes we allow the Ministry of Christ yet doth not allow the Ministry of Deceivers and yet is not in contradiction and this in short may give the Reader to understand the deceit and deceivableness to lye in I. S. who is found seeking offences against us without any cause given him and he layes snares for another which doth entrap his own feet And whereas he hath transcribed E. B. his confession in the warning to Vnderbarrow which confession is still owned and no self contradiction proved by it for though God s●ake by G. F. to him this doth not contradict the teaching of the Spirit of God as that E. B. was not taught by the Spirit of God for as I have said G. F. did minister as many doth at this day that people should come to the teaching of God in themselves and herein we do not contradict the Scriptures let I. S make as many blind arguments as he can and that instance about I. L. being of the same nature with the former the Answer supplyes both his proofs neither of which doth prove us in contradiction but is a witness to the Ministry of Christ and to the conversion received through it wherein we are taught of God and needs no man to teach us but as the anointing the Spirit of God within us which is immediate and yet we preach the Gospel to others that they may come to witness the same with us even the teaching of the Spirit of God and for this end is the Ministry of God sent by us to bring others to the knowledge of God through it and this is no self-contradiction let I. S. say what he will Further I. S. doth instance E. B. his calling mans light natural and carnal in the Warning c. and would call his contradiction to some who doth deny the light of Christ to be natural and carnal as the Priests of England terme it but this is no contradiction for though w● do deny that the light of Christ Jesus is natural and carnal and doth not allow any so to call it yet the light of man by which carnal men doth judge of carnal transgressions is natural E. B. doth never say that the light of Christ is natural and carnal but the light of Man is so he saith and in this Instance there is no contradiction neither in any parts of the words following which is transcribed and much might be said as to the occasion of those words being uttered when E. B. was in prison falsly as many have been since who was one of the first that by ●mprisonment was a sufferer for the name of Jesus in the North of England before I. S. was troubled with any of us but it is sufficient what is said to the mans light by which carnal men judgeth of any thing is one thing and the light of Christ Jesus which is spiritual mens guide is another thing E. B. speak of mans light and I. S. foolishly opposes him as if he spake of the light of Christ Jesus and so opposes his own conception And further I. S. asserts That Scripture light is the standing rule for faith and manners so are not immediate revelations and teachings Here he hath set up the Scriptures above the Spirit of God and above the Revelation of Jesus Christ the Saints was led by what the Spirit revealed and taught Christ said he should teach into all truth and they that were the Sons of God were loved by the Spirit of God and that was their rule to be led by in their Faith and manners but yet see a hypocrite I. S. is he that pleads for Scripture to be the rule and yet is acting in many things contrary to the Scriptures as at large may be instanced neither is in all the Scripture the Scripture called light but Scripture saith Christ is the light Further he saith There is sufficient light in the Scripture to guide men to salvation mark his Doctrine whether he hath not preached another thing than Christ to be the way and whether he hath not made Christ and the blood of Christ of none effect without which no salvation But he saith there is sufficient in the Scripture to lead men to salvation and neither Christ nor his blood is in Scripture let it be moved Further he saith The Scripture was given by the Spirit for a rule this we desire a proof off by plain Scripture and till then we deny it And further he saith The Spirit gives out himself by Scripture and yet he saith he never said the Scripture did give the Spirit and this is an absolute contradiction as may be noted so I. S. is taken in the snare contradicting himself in one quarter of a sheet of Paper and hath not at all proved us to be self-contradictors concerning any of these things mentioned by him Further he saith in his 8th Head That our possessing perfection and Quaking after Moses example cross shines on the other but wherein he doth not shew neither can the honest-minded