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A20361 A true report of all the doynges at the assembly co[n]cernyng matters of religion, lately holden at Poyssy in Fraunce. Written in Latine by Mayster Nicholas Gallasius, minister of the Frenche Churche in London, and then present, [and] one of the disputers in the same, translated into English, by I. D.... Seen and allowed accordyng to the order appoynted by the Queenes Maiesties iniunctions; True report of all the doynges at the assembly concernyng matters of religion, lately holden at Poyssy in Fraunce. Des Gallars, Nicolas, ca. 1520-ca. 1580. 1561 (1561) STC 6776; ESTC S110901 50,348 138

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Lordes wordes This is my body whē he asked what we thought was meant by thys pronoūe hoc we aunswered that bread was meant therby and that the body was speken therof so y● therby we might wel perceine y● the bread is a signe of the body They on the contrary syde Sayd y● this pronoūe Hoc is of the neutre gender can not by the rules of Grammer be referred to the bread but was induuduum vagum And onely to note the body as if a man should saye This is oyle This is hony Thys is a building And suche lyke Therein imitating Durand Whom Gardyner also an open enemye of the Ghospell and alleaged by them dyd folowe We shewed that that repugned wyth the nature of a Sacramente forasmuche as if it lacke a signe if it be brought to nothynge or made as nothyng it ceasseth to bee a Sacrament And it is a great maruell that none of the olde fathers could see thys fiction of induuduum vagum But thys satisfied them not And therefore repeating thesame continually wyth great cryes they ceassed not after the maner of the Sorbonistes to babble til nyght Yea and one of them foolishlye impudently threatned Beza Saying Oh I would we had thee within oure colledge We in the meane tyme eyther helde our peace or modestly obiected certayne argumentes til the noise wer whusshed but bicause they wuld nedes eyther wynne or seeme to wynne with trifeling or loude crying we preuayled nothyng Wherefore to be shorte we sayd that all the auncient fathers made with vs and we woulde be iudged by them Neither did we depart tyll the Cardinal pronused vs to sende vnto vs the authoritie of Austene other auncient fathers whereby oure opinion is condemned But we could neuer haue them He meant hereafter to conferre by wrytyng bicause he saw that by our talke God opened the eares of many but chiefely of the nobles Afterwardes the order of our disputatiō was altered For there were fyue chosen to conferre with vs and those such as passed all the reste in learning witte and modestye Monluke the Byshop of Valētyne Calius Sigensis an other Bishop the Abbot of Saligne the Abbot of Botillery and doctor Spensa Agaynst those wer chosen on our part doctor Peter Martir Theodore Beza Augustine Harlorate Iohn Spina Nicholas Gallasius We agreed of the order place tyme and secretaryes whyche shoulde regyster the questions proposed and the reasons on eyther part And then the selfe same day which was the last of September we began to deliberate with what order we should begin the disputation We wished and desired that we might orderly prosecute euery article of our confession Whiche request to be reasonable they thēselues confessed saying that they coulde not allow that prosperous order that began at the last yet bicause we were alreadye entred into that article they thought it good to finish it afore we came to the rest Therfore the next daye at oure returne we entreated of the presence of the body of Christ in his Supper The Abbote of Saluine brought forth a place out of an auncient Greke copy of Cirilus a Bishop of Ierusalē wherof there was no long reasoning bicause it made much with vs. At the last after muche alteration we concluded thus That in that respect that fayth makes those thynges presente that are promysed that same fayth doth moste truely receiue the body and bloud of our Lorde Iesus christ by the vertue of the holy gost in that respecte we confesse the presēce of his body and bloude in his holy supper in the whiche he offereth giueth and exhibyteth trulye the Substauce of hys body and bloude by the operacion of hys holye Spirite And we doe receiue eate spyritually and by sayth that very body whiche dyed for vs y● we may be bones of hys bones fleshe of his fleshe that therby we may be quickned receyue whatsoeuer is necessary to our saluatiō A copye of this conclusion those that cōserred with vs gaue to the rest of the byshops and doctours y● were at Poyssye But they alowed it not wherefore the nexte daye another was proposed vs wherein there was somewhat chaunged For that whiche we attribute to fayth it attributed to the worde That when we perceiued was done of purpose y● it beyng left doubtfull euery man might interprete the sense therof at his plesure least any mā should therby be deceiued we woulde by no meanes admitte for forasmuche as we came together there to prouide for the quietnes of our conscience we endeuoured as muche as laye in vs to withstand all error and doubte Neuertheles least we should seeme to stick vppon wordes we were contented that they shoulde chaunge the forme of the wryting so they altered nothing of the sense This forme therfore that folowes they thought better and promised to moue all the byshops to agre there to We doe confesse that Christe in hys holy supper doth truly offer gyue exhibite the substance of hys body and bloud by the operacion of the holy ghost and that we receyue and eate sacramentallye spirytually and by fayth hys bodye that died for vs that we may be bones of his bones and fleshe of his fleshe That there by we maye receyue lyfe and whatsoeuer pertayneth to our saluaciō But forasmuch as faith groūded vppon the worde of god doth make those thyngs presente whiche are promysed by thys fayth we acknowledge that we trulye and verelye receyue the true and naturall bodye of oure lorde Iesus Christe by the vertue of the holy ghost In this respect we cōfesse the presence of the bodye bloude of oure lorde sauioure Iesus Christ in his supper All thoughe thys forme litle differed from the other yet they hoped that it woulde be better alowed of the lordes And therfore they toke it with them to communicate vnto them We sayde that we woulde in lyke maner communicate it with oure brethren and reserue oure selues libertye either to adde or expoūd any thinge therin as we should thinke good When the Cardinalles had sene this forme some of thē allowēd it very well reioyced as though we were tourned to them And diuerse tales were therevppon sprede of vs. But when it was perused by the doctours as well Sorbonists as others they lightly chaūged their opinion They added therto therfore as we here say their opynion whereby they shewed what they thought wanted in it or wherefore they thought it was not to be allowed Also thei made almost a Tragedy betwixt the bishops and those which had conferred with vs and had put in y● forme of this agremente of this article among thē ▪ as thoughe they did either agree with vs or mocke with them But bycause it is no part of my purpose to writ their cōtentions I will willingly leaue it And now I come to the declaration of oure opynion as concernynge the presence of the body of Christ in his supper which we reserued free to our selues least any doubtfulnes bycause of the shortnes of our fyrst writing myght breed any doubte or error We affirme that no distāce of place may let our coniunction with the body and bloude of Christ bycause the Lordes supper is a heauenly thinge And althought in the earthe we receiue with the mouthe of oure body the breade wyne the true Sacraments sygnes of the body and bloud of Christ yet by fayth the helpe of the holy ghost our mindes to whom this foode doth chiefly belonge caried vp to heauen feede on the present body bloude And in this respecte we saye also that the body is ioyned with the breade and the bloude with the wyne But no other wyse thā sacramentally that is to say not accordīg to place or situatiō but bycause they do effectuously signify y● God giueth it to those that faythfullye communicate they trulye receiue it by faythe Hereby it appereth in what sorte we thinke of the presence of the bodye of Christ in the Vse and Ministration of his Supper For we admytte neither Transubstantiation nor Consubstantiation Yea we refuse all maner presence wherby Christes body is thought to be in the earth without quātity or is affirmed to be any otherwher than in heauen We vse the name of substaunce to signifye that we meante not our fayth of anye fayned bodye or phantasme neyther of the vertue only of Christs passion or his merites only which neuerthelesse we confesse to be the spirituall catyng of Christes fleshe but euen of the true and natural bodye of the sonne of God which he toke of that virgin Mary and afterwards was crucified and raised again for vs and now resteth in heauen till suche tyme as yt shal com to iudge the quick the dead And this was the ende of the Conference For they that conferred with vs beyng yll intreated of they re fellowes came not agayne Neyther were anye other chosen in theyr roomes Neyther since that tyme dyd the Bishoppes signefy any thing vnto vs but though we oftentimes desired that we myght goe forwardes handle the rest that wer yet vntouched we could vnderstād nothīg of their mindes therin but that they minded to depart wer desirous to referre all thinges to the councell of Trente Therefore ordre being taken for the leauiyng of a subsedy wherof perhaps they were more careful than of anye thing els deliuering vp to the King the articles whereof they had agreed among themselues not making anye accompte of vs but leauing vs in the court they al repaired to their homes Finis ¶ Imprinted at London in Paules Churchyarde by Luke Harryson
shuld perish But neuerthelesse his decres or counsell is not therfore alowed as though he had rightfullye condēned Christ For the holy gost prophecied it not he which vnderstode not what he spake For he was styrred with a cōtrary spirit and altogether deuillishe For he gaue iudgement against the innocent Christ y● son of god Furthermore if this priuilege be geuē to general councels that they cannot erre either in y● rule of doctrine or forme of life we woulde fain know at what time this was done For there was alwaies one faith one church Ephe. iiii a. v In the olde churche vnder the olde testamont the histories prophets witnesse y● errours were commonlye taught receiued All their spies saith Esay be blind their dogges bee dūme not able to barke Psa lvi d x. Also Ieremy Bothe prophete priest do all forge lyes Iere. vi ● xv And least you should thinke yesame to be referred to the liues of priuate persons it in writtē in yesame prophet the prophetes prophecy falsly in my name Ier. xiiii c. xiiii For I sent thē not neither did I cōmaund them to speak neither did I speak vnto thē but lying visiōs diuinations yea nothyng or y● dece●…s of their own hert they prophecie vnto you Also Esai the wisdom of y● wise shal perish the witte of the witty shal hide it selfe Ps xxiiii c. xiiii Also Ezechiell The law shal perish frō the priest councel from the elders Ezec. vii g. xcvi Furthermore who cōdemned the prophets as Ieremy Michae yea the son of god himself his Apostles but y● councels of the priestes of Israel If any man answer that these things hapned vnder y● olde testamēt we will replie that he doth not satisfy our reasō nor speake any thing to y● purpose For not wt●…ding y● his cōclusion remaineth That y● caūs●…ls of the prelates albeit they wer vniuersal wer oftētimes ruled rather with y● spirit of error thā of god But that we may com to the newe testamēt did not Paul specially warne that church writīg to the Ephesiās y● wolues should com frō amonges thē Acte xx ● xix that the son of perdition shuld sit in y● tēple of god ii Thessa ii a. iiii And truely yf we weigh the coūsels seuerallye we shal find so much repugnant cōtrariety in thē that we must nedes cōfesse that the holye gost ruled thē not but Sathan whiche long since knowes how to trāsform hīselfe into an Angell of light There is a place very manifest in Austine as concerning this in hys seconde booke of Baptisme against the Donatistes the thirde Chapter wherein he plainly sheweth that the writinges of seueral Bishops are amended by particuler councels And prouiniciall Synodes by vniuersall And vniuersall counsels reformed by others after when by experiēce that is detected which afore was hiddē or that disclosed which afore was couered Where Austyne doth not entreate of the outwarde forme but of the doctryne and of the Aphricane councell wherin thei did deliberate whether thei ought to be Baptised againe that had bin Baptised of hereti●…es There wyll perhaps be obiected an other reason commō enough namely that Christe did promise as oft as .ii. or three are gathered together in his name to be himselfe in the middest of thē Math. vi viii c. xx And therefore much more he would be present at a general councel We graūt ye that may wel be presumed but farr differs a presumption from a necessary conclusion For such is the naughtinesse of men that they abuse the name of God to the decreeing of their own lyes And they often tymes haue the name of God moste in their mouthes whose heartes ar enemies and haters of God i. Cor. xv c. ix And whereas the weakenesse of mannes witt is such as dayly experience proueth and many are blynded with noughty affections We say that those that grounde on no other foundation than the iudgemente of men and coloure of a councell are in great perill How then Thynk we that the doctrine of the Church is vncertam for that she may erre No. For we graūt that although we knowe God onely in parte as Paule sayeth and in that respect error is mingled with the truthe yet God did neuer permit that the chiefe and substantiall poyntes were wholye ouerthrowen and buryed For alway●…s he hath reserued to hymselfe a flocke some tymes greater sometymes lesser to speake and vnderstande those thynges which it behoueth both to vnderstande speake As in Elias tyme in Israell Also in the captiuity of Babilō and about the comming of Christ At which tyme scarse Zacharias onely Elizabeth Ioseph the virgine Marye Simon and Anne the Prophetess●… remained that knew God and among●… so great corruption of the Scribes and Pharises did truely vnderstande the fulfilling of the Prophecies Suthe breaches whiche happen in the churche of God for our sinnes be as it were tempestes whiche afterwardes the Lor●… calmes and lyke cloudes which vanish awaye at the rising of the sonne Dooe we then condemne the olde councels God forbidde For if by theyr decrees thinges shoulde bee refourmed you knowe that you should be compelled to chaunge more than we Onely this we desire that the scripture maye be to vs as a touchestone whereby all thinges ought to be allowed that are doone or spoken in the churche Whiche yf anye man thinke vnreasonable let him read that famous saying of Austine writing to Maximinus the Arian in his second booke and .xiiii. chapter where he entreateth of the coūcel of Nice and Ariminum For I thinke there is no councell that maye rather bee called vnyuersall than the first councel of Nyce And contrariwyse all menne confesse that the councel of Ariminum oughte worthily to bee reiected and condened Vppon what occasion dothe Austine talke of those two councels About the controuersie of an article of our fayth nowe confirmed established Namely the consubstantialitie of the sonne of god And yet neuerthelesse Austine professeth that he would neither ground●… on the councel of Nyce nor yet of Ariminum But would be tryed by the scriptures whiche ought to bee the prooues on eyther parte If anye man obiect the darkenesse of the scripture we wyll graunt that whiche Paule sayeth that the naturall man dothe not perceyue those thynges whiche procede from the spirite of god i. Cor. ii d xiiii Also we with Peter saye that the scripture is not of priuate interpretation ii Pet. i. d xx But if y● darknes of it be such that it cannot lighte our minds why dothe Christe referre vs onely to these scriptures to take coūcel of thē Serch ye the scripture saith he ▪ Ioh. f. xxix Also whē Abrahā was desired of that rich vnhappy man y● was tormented in hell that he woulde sende some manne to warne hys brethren he aunswered they haue Moyses and the Prophetes If they beleue not them