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A18448 The oration of the most noble and reverende father in God the Lorde Cardinalles Grace of Lorrain made and pronounced in thassemblie [sic] at Poyssi, the kyng beyng present, the sixtene daye of Septembre, in the yeare of our Lorde 1561 / translated out of Frenche into Englishe by T.S. Guise, Charles de, Cardinal de Lorraine, 1525-1574. 1561 (1561) STC 5010.5; ESTC S283 23,800 31

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thou dooest reigne and commaunde thou haste it by the benefyte and grace of IESVS CHRIST But wherevnto serueth this conference of kyngly or priestlye dignities namely vnto vs whyche neuer ne yet oure predecessoures haue at any tyme experimented of oure moste Christian kynges any vnseemely enterprise and that bee and doo succede in the states of them who neuer denyed the due obedience to their kynges no not once called the same in question The effect of his first proposition Lette then Sire the firste discourse of this proposition bee to this ende principally that all menne maye bee wytnesse in what reuerente sort we humble oure selues And howe muche wee woulde that bothe we and all they that be vnder our charge should shewe their faithfull obedience Let it be also a manifest declaration of the authoritie that God hath left to vs in the guidyng of soules in the doctrine of our faith and that vnder your protection to the ende that leauyng all other thynges aparte I maye make you vnderstande my charge and by whom I am therevnto authorised SYRE in this companie by your commaundement assembled we be a great numbre of Archbishops Byshops vpon whom thimposition of handes haue ben layd by their Metropolitanes and other byshops of the same prouince and through the grace of Iesus Christe the holy ghost hath ben geuen nominated by the kinges your predecessoures who do succede in the right of their people they referryng themselues to them and into theyr handes themselues beyng discharged of all that is necessarie to their choise or election We be receyued vpon the view and consent of our clergies and of our peoples that be vnder vs after our institution made by our holy fathers the Popes and the holye see Apostolique whom we acknowledge for our Superior and all these signes and markes be accompanyed with one succession from thapostles vnto vs very well continued There be also a good numbre of priestes sente by the Byshops that bee absent and by the chapters and Clergie and also Doctors of Parys whom I name for honors sake and of other famous vniuersities and to theym all I am inferior in vnderstandyng knowledge and eloquence and yet neuerthelesse by them all ordeyned to make you vnderstand one thyng The vnity of the prelates and 〈…〉 nce wherin thankes be vnto God we be all of one harte one soule of one fayth vnder one God vnder one head our sauior and redmer Iesus Christ vnder one onely Catholike churche his spouse hym we serue in spirite vnto hym with one intention mynde and prayer we bowe the knees of our heartes we worship and adore hym and by hym we aske the graces and gyftes of the holy ghost and haue no spotte of Idolatrie howesoeuer some men go about to lay vnto our chargs Vnderstande therfore Syre theffect of my message It is nowe eyght dayes passed that by your expresse ordinaunce a certayne number of persons were broughte into this place 〈…〉 and 〈…〉 who of long tyme haue seperated themselues from vs to our great sorow and griefe makyng a contrary profession of faithe and woulde not be obedient to our orders and obseruations and yet in wordes shew themselues as though they were desyrous to lerne and to be instructed reentryng into this their countrey and into the house and company of their fathers whom when they will acknowledge for fathers they shall be receyued and embraced for children Against theym we purpose not to obiecte any reproche but beare with their infirmitie not reiecte theim but call them agayne not separate them but vnite theim to th ende that we maye all with one mouthe geue honor to God the Father of our Lord Iesus Christ To them therfore in all charitie and spirite of mekenesse we answer that we are verye glad of their profession made of tharticles of the Crede commune to all Christian men and doo desire with all our hartes that like as they dooe agree in woordes so also they woulde agreee with vs in sence and vnderstandyng as it hath appeared vnto vs they haue not doone by their definition of the catholike churche callyng the same to be the congregation of the chosen After that they touched summarily diuers pointes cleane contrary to that whiche the Catholike church doth teache and beleue and in so greate numbre that beyng well compared vnto our profession wherof not to speake without lawe but to proue if accordyng to holy doctrine euery poynte nedeth a whole day and so the debatyng of this matter woulde require whole monethes This hath ben the cause why at this tyme I haue charged my selfe of two pointes onely whereof the principall is to separate them and to make them strangers thother is the only rule wherby we may measure our controuersies and so come to agreement This latter is of the Catholike churche of the authoritie of the Scripture of the holy councelles and interpretations of the fathers 1. Tim. 3 whych point I will firste entreate of and the other is of the veritie of the bodye and bloude of IESVS CHRIST in the holy sacrament of the Eucharistia The one is the piller the strengthe the staye and establishmente of the truth The other is the sacrament of our vnitie beynge by hollye communion and participation of the bodye and bloud of our lord vnited and incorporated to our sauiour made all members of one body well composed and agreing wherof IESVS CHRIST is the head It is six score yeares and more before the counsell of Constance before which counsel there were some did affirm that the chirche was of the chosen only and that whosoeuer was a synner coulde not be accompted of the church and namely that a bishop whom God had reproued and so consequently whiche was a member of the diuell had no power ouer the faithful Ther folowed them other which saide that the vniuersall churche was onely of such as were predestinate Proffes that the Churche cōsisteth in good and euil Mat. 3. Luc. 3. Mat. 22. Mat. 25. Ioan. 15. Esai 5 Math 2 Mat. 12 Luc. 2 These errours and the renuers of them were in that councell reproued and condempned as altogether wholy repugnaunt to the holy scriptures wherin it is sayd that in the floure of our lord there shall alwayes be found chaffe with the corne which shall continue to the ende at what tyme the same shal be purged and clensed by the fanne of IESVS CHRIST The flocke of our lord doth conteyne both sheepe and goates the same shall not be seperated vntill his return Al the world is bidden to the banket but vpon the view which god shal make he that is found euil apparailed is driuen thens Among the virgins were founde fiue fooles against whom the gates were shutte The vineyarde of our Lord hath not brought foorth good grapes but also bastarde grapes whiche was not only tilled by good husbād men but also by euil whome god will destroy and
sundry ages because we shall fynde theym all to agree In the firste hundred yeares let vs appeale and calle for the apostelles and their successours as S. Clement s Ignatius and s Denis In the second hundred Alexander the firste Iustine Ireneus Tertullian Origene and Cyprian In the thirde hundred yeares Arnobius Lactantius Eusebius Athanasius sainct Hyllarie Emissene Isichius Nazianzene S. Ambrose S. Hierom S. Augustin S. Iohn Chrysostom In the fourth hundreth Leo the great Prosper Theodorite and Cyrill And in the .v. hundred let vs come to S. Gregorie further more if ye will let vs call Damascene and long after hym S. Bernard These shal be the iudges of our controuersies which be not to be suspected and of those which be most notable and ancient ye shal haue a brefe repetitiō or recital to thintent ye may acknowledge that by the cōmune vniuersal agreement of the holie Fathers there is no place or occasiō lefte vnto vs herein Hilla li. ● de trinitate to doubte of the veritie of this body blood For by the words of our lord by our faith It is verily flesh verily blood which beyng receiued Accepta ait hausta doo so worke and make that we be in hym and he in vs. Is not this tho truthe But this can not be true to them which wholly deny Iesus Christ to be very God and to be the same which hath alwaies been in the churche of God so generally in all mens mouthes that amonge the sacramentes of the cōmune faith the veritie of the body and blood of IESVS CHRIST was not had in silence no not by the mouthes of infantes Leo epi● 13 vnto whom as to all other for otherwise we shold not beleue it much lesse vnderstand the same it was and is daiely saied and shall be vttered by the moste graue authoritie of the Churche that the same which is taken of the fruites of the earth and in the celebration of this sacrament placed vpon thaltare receiued after the custome of religion consecrated by mysticall praier offred and geuen and after the celebration finished as it appertayneth receiued to spirituall saluation vsed or consumed in the remembrance of the passion is the body and bloode of Iesus Christ whiche we perfectely beleue hath appeared in the kynde of humaine fleshe and that this likour or drinke did runne downe and distill from the side of him that was perced vpon the crosse Augu. li. 3. de trinite 4. 10 These good Fathers I say did teache their Auditorie to doubte nothyng at all before they should communicate at this holie table of the veritie of the body and blood of IESVS CHRIST Iohn 19 Leo sermo 6. de Ieiu 7. mens Chrys hom 7. operis impfect 1. Cor. 1. Isychius Leui. 22 For that is by the mouthe receyued whyche by the harte is beleued And in vaine they answer Amen which disputeth against that whiche they receaue They made no difficultie to saie that by the hande of the priest there is geuen and receaued not onely that which is seen and sanctified by him that gaue it but also that whiche there is vnderstanded is that sanctification whiche sanctifieth the receauour euen the bodye without doubt of our Lorde whiche as Sainct Paule writeth was made a sanctification for vs by the Father Contrary wise doo they affirme that he which ignorantly or through ignorance receaueth this holy misterie there not withstandyng he knoweth not the vertue thereof yet the same is the true bodye and bloode of our Lorde IESVS CHRIST In this wise thus plainly did the holy doctors both Greke and Latine speake touching this matter now long sithens Whose words specially of som of them we haue repeted so faithfully as we coulde So plainly I say haue our ancient fathers writen that one of them beyng the first Berēgarius apud Gu. Malingberien lib. 3 de gestis Anglo which long time after thē did otherwise teach that is to say that the body blood of Iesus Christ was none otherwise in this sacramēt but as a token or signe And after he had therof wel aduised himselfe disputed reasoned did not only in his lyfe time chāge his opinion but also at the point of deth which is the time to confesse the truth or neuer in his last words affirmīg stedfastly spake as foloweth Truly we beleue these misteries after the benedictiō or ecclesiastical cōsecration to be the very body blood of our sauior being induced and perswaded to beleue the same by thauctoritie of thancient churche We thā beleue cōfesse acording to the saying of the scripture and of the holy fathers that the body blood of Iesus Christ by thunspeakable operation of the grace of god the power of his holy spirite is in these holy misteries present geuen receiued we passe ouer to speake of the greatnes therof Chrysoh●… i. 8● in Mat. Wherby we shold seme to make our lord to be here outwardly visible sensible or perceptible Nothing saieth a holy father is here geuen vnto vs sensible but vnder visible sygnes inuisible thinges are there deliuered vnto vs. Ho. 60 ad popu antioch We absteine also from such maner of speache whereby contrary wise we might here seme onely to represent oure said sauiour being absent as in a tragedy or comedy Truely the maner and facion wherby he doth here present him selfe to vs wherby he geueth himself The maner of Christhi being in the sacrament Iohn 1. Cy. li. 4. in l 3. ca 1 14. Cy. Lu. 22 citāte Tho. 3 parte que 25 articu 1. Ioan. 6 where by he is receiued and participated is secret not humaine or natural and yet not therfore the lesse true We comprehend it not by sence reason or nature but by faith By which as the holy counsel of Nice the first of the foure chiefest dooth teache vs not to basely respectinge the visible elementes but lifting vppe the spirit we consider by faith the lābe of god to be there set in this holy table taking away the sinne of the world and truly we there receaue his precious body and bloud Better it is to follow the councell of the auncientes firmely to beleue the wordes of oure lorde god leauing vnto god of this his worke the meane the way and knowledge then in so highe a matter to thinke or vtter this Iewish word Quamodo a worde I saye of incredulitie perdition to the Iewes such as follow them Beleue saith the holy fathers vpō these words so often repeted Hoc est corpus meum Make no doubte thereat whether they bee true but receaue by faith the saying of our sauiour For seing that he is the truth Bernat ser 2 de caena he cannot lye Greate meruelies my brethern and thinges to be wondered at are saide of this sacramēt faith is there necessary Reason superfluous knowledge doth builde her foundation vpon