are the seauen Spirits sent out into all the World Now it will be hard to make the Holy Ghost to be the hornes and eyes of Christ the Lambe Againe how will you make the Holy Ghost to be sent out into all the World What are the wicked also partakers of him But if you apply these phrases vnto Angels they would most expedite N. It may be Iohn by seuen Angels vnderstandeth an vncertaine number for a certaine as the seuen spirits in the first Chapter are taken for the Holy Ghost pouring out seuen that is infinite spirituall gifts vpon the Church I. When the seuen plagues are denounced by the seuen trumpets and poured out by the seuen Vials of the seuen Angels will you make these plagues trumpets and vials to be of this vncertaine and indefinite number will you not hereby inwrap all the Apocalyps in vncertaintie And were all this granted might not we say that the Angell in Tobit also doth by seuen vnderstand an vncertaine number N. But the number of seuen is Magicall as apeares by the Storie of l Numb 23. 1. Balaam I. You may aswell say that the seuen hornes of the Lambe were Magicall by this reason Indeed to put confidence in the number of seauen as Balaam did is Magicall But to vse that number for the signification of perfection is not only Propheticall but euen m Psal 119. 164 Prou 9. 1. 24. 16. 26. 1â— vsuall N. Howsoeuer it be not Magicall yet is this number Popish For doe not wee blame the Papists for framing nine Orders of Angels out of Dionysius I. Indeed it was too much curiositie to forge nine orders of nine such words as either concurre in signification namely Thrones Principalities Dominations Powers Vertues Or be taken from a particular message as the name of Seraphim or from some speciall representation as the tearme Cherubim because they were pourtrayed like Children Or bee not found in Scriptures as the word Archangels or agree to them all as the title of Angels For euen they that stand before God are sent out as n Math. 18. 10. Luke 1. 19. Heb. 1. 14. messengers But what is this to the number of seuen Angels which is found in Scripture N. From the number of Angels I proceed to their office or action which is ordinarie or extraordinarie Of the first kind is the bringing of the Prayers of the Saints to memorie or the presentation of them to God which the o Tobit 12. 12. 15. Angell in Tobit doth arrogate vnto himselfe being the peculiar office of Christ as appeareth in the p Apoc. 8. 3. vision of Iohn I. How did Elias call the widdowes sinnes to remembrance before q 1. Kings 17. 18 God N. The widdow thought hee did it by his prayers I. And how doth the Deuill accuse the Brethren day and r Apoc. 12. 10. night N. He doth vrge God with the memory of our sinnes I. Why is Satan said to stand at the right hand of the wicked when they Å¿ Psal 109. 6. pray yea and sometimes of the t Zach. 3. 1. godly N. Hee doth it to accuse the one and to resist the other in his prayers I. Why did the Angell stand at the right hand of Zachary when hee told him that his prayer was u Luke 1. 11 12 remembred The like phrase to which is found in the Angels speech to x 1. Acts 10. 4. Cornelius N. I know not except it were to declare that he helped the one or the other in his prayer I. Why make you scruple of that Thinke you the Angell was not as readie to helpe Zacharie as Satan was to hinder Ioshua N. It may bee the Angell did helpe But the manner of the helpe is vnknowne I. If the Angell receiued his prayer why might he not present it to God N. It is Popish to say the Angell receiued his supplication I. Did not the Angell receiue Lots y Gen. 19. 21. Prayer N. That Angell was Christ For it is said in the Storie that Iehouah from Iehouah rained downe z Gen. 19. 24. fier c. I. Iehouah did it but by his Angels whom he sent to destroy the a Gen 19. 13. place N. But will you haue God put in minde by Angels as Princes are by their Remembrancers I. God hath no such need as Princes haue and yet he accepteth of the prayers of Men and Angels who doe in a sort call things to his memorie as you head before of Eliah N. Doe you thinke then with Papists that Angels pray for Men I. That the Saints in Heauen doe in generall pray for vs is denied of none But why the Angels who know our wants in many particulars and abound with Charitie asmuch as the Saints should not in speciall pray for vs either render you a reason or call it not Popish N. This yet will helpe the Popish opinion touching the inuocation of Angels I. A Christian that is in Tartaria prayes for his friend at Mosco May the Muscouite therefore desire his absent friend to pray for him N. Hee may by a messenger or letter but not else I. So the Angels pray for vs yet may not we request them so to doe vnlesse they appeare to vs which is rare or we could dispatch some messenger to them which is vnpossible I. But Christ onely presenteth the prayers of Saints as you heard by Iohn's Vision I. Such a mysticall place will hardly be argumentatiue But were it granted that this Angell was Christ wee may thus answere that Christ alone doth present the prayers of all the Saints in his owne reall intercession Doth this hinder that an Angell may not present some mens particular Prayers and in his own Prayer recommend them to God through Christs merits It is true Angels pray for vs and assist vs But because wee are ignorant when they doe it it were too much familiaritie to intreate their prayer of whose presence we are vncertaine N. Then you make Angels Mediatours of intercession which is only Christ's royaltie I. No more then we make Abraham because hee prayed for a Gen. 19. 29. Lot Yea Beza will tell you that the Mediator mentioned by Saint b Gal 3. 19. Paul was Moses N. Though Master Caluin be of an other opinion namely that it was Christ yet with reuerence I rather assent to Master Beza namely that Moses was in a sort a Mediatour of intercession yet subordinate vnder Christ I. The same we affirme of Angels yet with this caution that they must bee present to vs as Moses was to the Israelites before we may intreate their Prayers N. From the ordinary action of Angels wee descend to the extraordinarie namely eating and speaking the first exceeding the order of Nature the second of Moralitie Touching the former the Angell in c Tobit 12. 19. Tobit saith I did neither eate nor drinke but you saw it in a Vision whereas the Angels which were
but withall haue ouerwhelmed it with sundrie errours The first is this You pretend them to bee refused by the Iewes because they were written in a language not vnderstood by them What Did not Hierome out of Chaldie translate Tobit Did not the Iewes in their Dispersion vnderstand the Greeke tongue namely in the Greekish Septuagint Why was the Epistle to the Hebrewes written in Greeke if they were ignorant of the language The like is to be said of the Epistles of Saint Iames and Saint Peter Now tell me Doe not you acknowledge our Apocryphall Bookes to haue beene written in Greeke and yet was not Sirach's Sonne a Iew Did not Philo and Iosephus being Iewes write in Greeke The second is rather a scoffe then an errour Not vnlike that of some men partly Arrians and partly Barrowists which call the Athanasian Creed the Creed of Sathanasius This is like that which is more then yea and nay for it comes of euill Your third errour is that you acknowledge the traditionarie testimonie of the Church for the Bookes of Scripture and yet explode all tradition not only as needlesse but euen as damnable Your fourth errour is that you ascribe more to the Iewish Synagogue then to the Christian Church For you heard before out of Hierome that the Christians receiued these Bookes N. They receiued them but as Apocryphall I. And yet they read them in the Church N. They were men and might erre For wee are assured that these Bookes are not agreeable to the Canon as containing and maintaining manifold errours and therefore may bee the Canon neither of Faith nor of Manners I. Wee denie that you can finde any errour in these Bookes concerning Manners Now touching Faith fundamentall errours wee acknowledge none in them If any pettie fault or slip be found our subscription is safe But now bring forth the errours in their numbers and armies N. The Apocryphall Bookes are either such as are reputed so by the Papists themselues namely the third and fourth of Esdras and the prayer of Manasses besides some other Bookes not expressed in our Common Bibles or such as are so accounted of by the Protestants onely whereof some be not read some be Of the first kinde are certaine portions of Hester also Susanna Bell and the Dragon and the two Bookes of the Maccabees And here I maruell much that the first Booke of Maccabees is not read in your Church considering you say it is a key to the Mysteries of Daniel I. Euen for the same cause that wee reade not other Bookes of the Chronicles and Other Volumes of holy Scripture N. This cause shall hereafter be tried Now the Bookes that you read are Historicall or Dogmaticall The Historicall be either whole Bookes or a fragment Of the first sort are Tobit and Iudith The Booke of Tobit containeth errours of things to be beleeued or to be done The first sort concerneth either Angels or the Meanes of our preseruation Angels bee good or euill In the good we may consider the name and nature concerning the first The Booke setteth downe the name of an Angell calling him Å¿ Tobit 3. 17. Raphael whereas Angels names ought not to be enquired t Gen. 32 29. after as being u Iudg. 3. 18. secret I. The Bookes of x Dan. 19 21. â—0 21. Daniel of y Luke 1. 19. Luke of z Iud. 9. Iude and of Saint a Apoc. 12. 7. Iohn doe set downe the names of Angels after which we should not enquire because they be secret are they therefore Apocryphall N. These names are not secret to God's Spirit which hath reuealed them to vs in these Bookes I. And why may not God's Spirit reueale the name of Raphael in this Booke N. This name Raphael is not extant in any other Booke of Scripture and therefore it seemes to be a tearme Apocryphall I. If a Iew should thus reason I finde the names Gabriel and Michael specified no where but in Daniel it seemes therefore the Booke should be Apocryphall what answere would you returue if you were a Iew and beleeued neither S. Luke S. Iude nor Saint Iohn N. I would answer It is sufficient that these names are recorded in one Booke of Scripture I. So it is sufficient though Raphael bee named no where but in Tobit vnlesse you beg the question Besides the names of Angels are of two sorts Some expressing their nature some their office Of this latter kinde is the name of b Isa 6. 2. Seraphim which signifies burning because one of them touched the Prophets lips with a burning coale To this head wee may referre Raphael which signifieth one that healeth from God because he healed Sara and Tobit Lastly the place in Iudges by you alleadged is impertinent The Angell which appeared might bee Christ who said his name was Secret or Wonderfull The like Isaiah saith of c Isa 9. 6. Christ hee shall call his name the Wonderfull and so forth So that the Angell may seeme rather to haue reuealed his name to Manoah then to haue d God shewed the burning of Sodom to Abraham and yet not to Lot The time of death to Ezekiah not to vs. concealed it from him N. From the name of Angels we come to their nature wherein wee will trie their number and their office Touching the first this Booke determineth that their are seauen e Tobit 12. 15. Angels c. which is partly Magicall partly Popish For first the Magitians especially the Iewes numbred seuen Angels according to the seuen dayes of the weeke For Sunday Raphael then Gabriel Sammael Michael Izidkiel Hanael f See Iunius vpon this place Rephariel I. The Booke of Tobit doth not designe these Angels by dayes much lesse reckoneth their names though two of them namely Gabriel and Michael are found elsewhere in Scripture By what tradition the Iewes vnderstood the rest we know not But first we are sure the Angell tels Daniel that hee was one of the chiefe g Dan 10. 13. Angels Secondly this number of seuen may probably be thus collected The seuen eyes in h Zach. 3. 9. Zacharie are by Saint Iohn expounded to bee the seuen spirits which are sent into all the i Apoc. 5 6. world And what should be meant by these Spirits but Angels Againe Saint Iohn twice mentioneth seuen k Apoc. 8. 6. 16. 1. Angels it is not sufficient for you to exclaime that this is Magicall Wee rather credit the Scriptures affirming then your negatiue supposals N. The seuen spirits are expounded the Holy Ghost I. The exposition is but your owne N. What Doe you suppose that Iohn prayes for grace and peace from Angels I. Not as from causes but as from instruments Againe though they be interpreted of the Holy Ghost in the first Chapter yet in the Vision of the fift Chapter that exposition will be violent For there it is said that the Lambe had seuen hornes and seuen eyes which
to shew that the People might say after the Minister not that they might answer him The reason and end whereof I cannot conceiue I. The end thereof First is to ease the Priest Secondly to raise vp in the People memory attention and zeale the first to prepare the minde the second to make it concurre with the Priest The third to apply the Publique sayings to each priuate mans vse N. If a good intention might make a good action the money changers in the Temple might be iustified which helped the people to the money of the Sanctuary but where is the warrant of your practice I. Our warrant is drawne from proportion As the Priest would not suffer Dauid and his followers to taste of the holy bread vnlesse they had beene seperate from women by analogie to Gods Commandements vpon Mount Sinai So wee cause the People to answer 1. Sam. 21. 4. Exod. 19. 15. the Priest by a proportionable reference to the practise of Miriam and Anna. Againe seeing diuers of the Psalmes are prayers And Exod. 15. 20 21 Luke 2. 38. Consider the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 publique psalmodie is approued by all men of tempered wits Wee know not why the peoples Responsals or answers in praier should be reiected N. There is no lesse errour in the matter then in the persons The first fault of the matter is their vsing of Gloria Patri which is but an human inuention I. Were it so yet were it tolerable as we shewed when wee spake of Set Prayer But true it is that Athanasius a man inuented it and the whole Church approued it which as we thinke had the Spirit of God N. That whose first vse is decayed ought to be abolished but the vse of Gloria Patri is now decayed which was to detest Arrians and Macedonians denying the God-head of Christ and of the Holy Ghost now therefore it is to bee abrogated I. First the Maior is vntrue For though the first vse of the Arke were to preserue Noah with his Family yet Moses made an Arke for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 an Arke to preserue things aliue Gen. 6. 14. whence Thebes was called by the houses thereof built of Cadmus ships 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 an Arke to keepe things without life Exod. 25. 10. another vse And though the first vse of Manna were to feed the people yet it was reserued in the Golden Pot many hundred yeares The like is to bee said of the Brazen Serpent which though it healed not them that looked on it yet was it kept till the dayes of Ezekias Againe your Minor is weake For at this day we know by a certaine migration of soules or art of Endor sundry both Arrians and Samosatenians and Tritheites Turkes and Iewes which doe no lesse impugne the Trinitie then did the Old Heretiques Besides the Grecians denying the Holy Ghost to proceed from the Sonne denie withall in our opinion the Sonne 's equalitie with the Father which seemeth to bee acknowledged by this Gloria Patri Are there not amongst vs many Familists which are said to disclaime the God-head of the Holy Ghost Are there not many stiffe-necked Atheists which all in their liues some in plaine words denie the Glorie Trinitie and Eternitie of God which three things are orderly combined in this Doxologie Nay is any man of that trāscendent capacitie to whom it shal not be auailable to haue this more then Super-celestiall Mysterie often inculcated into his flitting memorie N. The words wee might better indure were they not so vnseasonably reiterated at the end of all the Psalmes and sundry Hymnes I. You complaine as I heare that Alleluia Prayse yee the Lord is omitted seuenteene times in the end of certaine Psalmes and yet when we at the end of euery Psalme doe most distinctly praise God which Alleluia doth enioyne vs to doe you seeme to be in Choller Againe the end of this rehearsall is First that the ignorant which cannot reade may be aduertised where each Psalme endeth Secondly that the true vse of Psalmes which is the praising of God may bee manifested in practice Thirdly That many irreuerent persons by meanes of this which seemeth to be a kinde of prayer may bee put in minde of the dutie which is most decent in the hearing of the Psalmes namely vailing the Bonnet which many doe with as little regard neglect as they which depart from Baptisme before the Thankesgiuing Of which kinde of Sacrilegious prophanenesse we obserue many lamentable trials among the dissolute multitude N. The second fault in the matter of these prayers is found in these words after the Apostles Creed There is none other that fighteth for vs but only thou O God I. Are there not sinnes enow why make you more what is the knot in this bulrush N. First you seeme to pray for peace in your owne time without regarding the posteritie I. We pray for the one as being a blessing of God promised to two worthy Kings of Iuda 2. Kings 20. 19. 22 10. the latter we neglect not Only we dare not presume that peace shall remaine with vs with her wings clipt for euer When we aske bread for this day doe we neglect to morrow Doe we not tread as neere as may bee in the steps of Christ who forbids vs to take care for to morrow N. Againe when you pray for peace because none fighteth for you but God you seeme to intimate that you would not feare warre if any should fight for you but God I. This is rather our meaning That we feare no warre but expect an eternall peace if God defend vs who is the Lord of Sabaoth that is of Hoasts At which word in the Te Deum some haue cauilled not remembring that it is found in the Greeke Text of Saint Paul For had it beene in the Te Deum Sabboth Rom. 9. 29. not Sabaoth might not that also bee iustified Did not sundry ancient Iewes tearme God the Lord of the Sabbath Day Is hee not indeed the Lord of rest which that word implieth But to returne from this seeming digression God is our a Psal 18. 2. 121 4 127. 2 shield and b Psal 73 25. watchfull keeper him only wee haue in Heauen and Earth And now remember you auouched c Dan. 10. 21. Michael to bee Christ Consider the words there written There is none that holdeth with mee in these things but Michael your Prince If Michael here bee Christ are not the words the same in effect with these in our Liturgie at which you stumble In summe though Angels and Men fight for vs ministerially and in the nature of instruments yet God only fighteth as principall Agent teaching our d Psal 18. 34. hands to fight CHAP. VIII Of the Letanie N. THe Short Prayers being handled I proceed to the Letanie being a more continued forme of Prayer which as I take it doth want things needfull and abound with things needlesse
can his seruants I. Can they not relinquish his seruice and become Reformed Christians N. They may but then they cease to be his seruants I. You meane then That wee may pray for them as Bishops but not as Popish Now we pray that God would illuminate all Bishops that is deliuer them from the darknesse of Poperie and all manner of errours Againe why beate you the bush in this manner I know you meane that our Lord Bishops are Popish and the seruants of Antichrist Neither can you be ignorant that for their sake principally this Prayer is intended N. If it be so I am the more sorrie except you meane to pray for their conuersion Howsoeuer it be I will not now enter into that combat But from your Intercession I make haste to your Deprecations which either concerne things spirituall or temporall Of the first kind is this Prayer From fornication and all other Deadly Sinnes wherein you seeme to make fornication no sinne I. Doe wee pray to be deliuered from it as from a Punishment or as from a Sinne N. You made the doubt your selfe Bee you the Oedipus sure I am you make it no sinne as may thus be proued All sinne is deadly as no Protestant will denie But fornication in your Letanie is no deadly sinne and consequently no sinne The Minor thus appeares You say Fornication and all other deadly sinnes whereby you distinguish Fornication from the other as not being of that kinde I. When Dauid saith Sheepe and Oxen yea and the beasts of the field doth hee exclude Sheepe and Oxen out of the number of the beasts of the field When Saint Paul saith As the Apostles and the brethren of the Lord and Cephas Doth hee denie the Lords brethren and Cephas to bee Apostles Doe not the Papists themselues acknowledge Fornication to be one of the Deadly sinnes And doe you vilifie vs in respect of them N. You vilifie your selues in making seauen deadly sinnes like Papists which some humorous men haue applied to the seuen Planets according to the dayes of the weeke As Pride to the glorious Sunne Enuy to the pale Moone Wrath to fierce Mars Couetousnesse to subtle Mercurie Gluttonie or Drunkennesse to prodigall Iupiter Lust to wanton Venus Sloth to dull Saturne I. I dispute not now whether these men did inuent this method partly for memorie partly to shew that lanets though they compell not mans minde yet they incline his affection vnlesse he breake and tame his naturall disposition Only this I demand Doe the Papists make no other deadly sinnes then these seuen Is not heresie with them capitall Doe they not make sixe sinnes against the Holy Ghost Presumption Despaire Finall Impenitencie Obstinate Malice Inuidence or Enuie against Gods grace in our brother resisting of the knowne truth N. Yea your selfe made Enuy not long agoe In a Sermon vpon Rom. 1. 29 a sinne against the Holy Ghost I. It was then declared that there is but one sinne against the Holy Ghost and therefore that those sixe things reckoned by the Schoolmen out of Saint Austine are rather parts then kindes of that sinne Also it was shewed that Enuy was of two kindes The first whereby one desireth anothers happinesse to be translated to himselfe Another whereby he is sorrie that any vertue remaineth in the Matth. 13. 28. world This latter is in him that is called the enuious man and may be a part of that dreadfull sinne against the Holy Spirit N. But you said in another Sermon that Witches sinne against the Holy Ghost I. I said it not of my selfe but recited it out of the Kings Maiesties Booke called the Demonologie The worthinesse whereof I thought to bee such though it had beene written by a man vnknowne or meerely priuate as might stop all Cauils But now what can you alleage against it Doe not some Witches plainly renounce God and that with a voluntarie and direct obstinacie Doe they not often blaspheme that God whom they haue known and acknowledged Can this iniquitie bee distinguished from the sinne against the Holy Ghost N. It was affirmed by them that reported it to vs that these were your assertions Witches sinne against the Holy Ghost Enuy is the sinne against the Holy Ghost I. Men of your profession should be diligent hearers and slow beleeuers For you know that Fame is like the vrine which till it bee chafed and tried is as deceitfull as an Harlot N. Well if the Papists and you make more deadly sinnes then seuen why are these seuen only reckoned I. Let the Papists themselues tender a reason of their owne popular diuision As for vs wee account all firme in it owne nature to bee mortall N. But you seeme to imply the vulgar Popish distribution of Sinnes into Mortall and Veniall I. Doe none diuide Sinne in this manner but Papists Doth not Bellarmine tell you Bellar. lib. 2. de peccato that Lutherans hold all the sinnes of the Elect to bee veniall of the reprobate to be mortall Dare you denie the Publique Doctrine of our Church that all sinnes except that against the Holy Ghost howsoeuer in their owne nature they be deadly yet are made through the merits of Christ veniall and pardonable N. From spirituall things I come to temporall Whereof both the number and matter are by vs disliked Touching the first The number of your prayers for Temporall benefits exceedeth them which are made for Spirituall graces whereas of the six Petitions in the Lords Prayer the fourth only is for Temporall things I. When wee pray in the sixt Petition Lead vs not into temptation against what temptations doe we pray N. Temptation is from God either immediately without meanes as that which is termed the Diuine temptation namely when the wrath of God doth immediatly seize vpon the Conscience Or else by meanes which are three First the Deuill who stirres vp the blasphemous temptation Secondly the flesh or part vnregenerate from which doe issue both the temptations of sinne affrighting the Conscience and of Fancie molested with Melancholy Thirdly the world by and in which are raised outward temporall afflictions I. I will not now dispute about your diuision Only you confesse that in this sixt Petition you pray against temporall affliction and so for a temporall blessing But now tell me I pray you when in the seuenth Petition wee say Deliuer vs from euill what euill is vnderstood N. These words not the seuenth but a part of the sixt Petition For the coniunction But knitting them to the former words doth make them but one sentence and one Petition I. By this your reason there wil be but foure Petitions Considering to these words Giue vs this day our daily bread the rest of the Prayer is annexed by three coniunctions Namely twice And and For. Againe Beza telleth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 you that the word But is oft times taken for And. N. To grant that these words may make the seuenth Petition yet by
N. That part of the Minor is to bee applyed to Orders and Matrimony I. Belike then you affirmed that ioyntly of all the Sacraments which should haue beene deuided among them N. We most insist vpon the last clause Namely that they haue no visible signe I. Neither is that built vpon a Rocke For haue not Confirmation and Orders the visible signe of imposition of hands Can you conceiue of Matrimonie without hand-fasting Or of Extreame Vnction without Visible Infusion of oyles Nay if Sensible bee Visible and Audible be Sensible Is not Confession in Penance directly Audible so Visible by your owne interpretation N. What then Doe you reuiue the Seauen Popish Sacraments I. Nothing lesse But onely I manifest vnto you with what leaden weapons you impugne the iron enemie namely the Papist Against whom while you deferre to fight our Church becomes like the Oake cleft with wedges made out of her owne bodie N. If this Argument be weake you condemne the Booke of Articles which propoundeth the Art 25. same reason I. You mistake the meaning of the Booke yea and the words also The words are thus Being such as are growne partly of the corrupt following of the Apostles Partly are states of life allowed in the Scriptures but yet haue not like nature of Sacraments with Baptisme and the Lord's Supper for that they haue not any visible Signe or Ceremonie ordained of God Here first you perceiue that the word Partly was twice left out of your argument wherevpon came your fallacie of Compounding and Diuiding And so it may bee the hauing of a visible signe taking Visible in his proper sence doth exclude Penance They being onely a state allowed in Scripture doth shut out Matrimony as the corrupt imitation of the Apostles doth Anoyling Some such like thing may bee thought of Confirmation and Orders But it is vncertaine N. Yea but they all fiue are denied to haue a visible signe I. Some coniecture that by Visible is meant that which is perceiued by many senses and this kind of Signe may bee proper to Baptisme and the Lords Supper But the plaine answere is That no Sacraments excepting those two haue a visible signe generally necessarie to saluation N. Without Orders there can be no Ministery without the Ministery no Visible Church without which there can bee no ordinary salution I. Orders are mediately necessarie for all but immediately for Ministers alone N. From the number of the Sacraments I come to their end Namely their necessity against which I thus argue Those things without which saluation may be obtained are not necessary to saluation But such are the Sacraments Ergo. I. I thus encounter your Maior Those things without which saluation may bee obtained are not necessary to saluation But without Miracles Saluation may be had And therefore Micracles euen those of Christ shall bee needlesse to saluation N. Miracles are no ordinary meanes to saluation but extraordinary I. So Sacraments are not extraordinary Which heresie denieth all outward Sacraments but direct and ordinary meanes for vnlesse you be a Swingfeldian you must acknowledge that neglect or contempt of Sacraments is a Barto life eternall And so both the doubtfulnesse of your Maior and falshood of your Minor doe at once appeace in their colours N. My second reason is this Things necessary to saluation doe conferre grace But Sacraments do not and so are not necessary I. Your Maior is not well poised For is therefore the Sabbath needlesse to saluation because it doth not conferre grace Againe your Minor wants the bridle of bondage and limiting distinction For though Sacraments doe not actiuely Physically and by infusion conferre grace yet none but publique enemies to all Sacraments will denie that they bring grace passiuely and by the assistance of the concurrent Spirit of God Euen as the Circles of Magicians and Spels of Witches are said to bee operatiue not of themselues being meere quantities but by the concurrent assistance of Satan with whom the bloudie couenant is stricken Now that Sacraments are necessary to Saluation it appeares by three things First because they are Gods Ordinances and so most needfull Secondly because they are markes of the Church visible out of whose bosome there is no ordinary saluation Thirdly because faith is begun in Baptisme and strengthned in the Lords Supper The necessitie whereof is greater then of water and fire nay then of friendship N. This shall bee tried in the particular Sacrament to which wee now descend It seemeth then that you make fiue Sacraments Baptisme Confirmation The Lords Supper Penance and Orders which last because it is not expressed in the Liturgie we will now omit I. You confest before that wee made only two Sacraments generally necessary why doe you then place Confirmation betweene Baptisme and the Lords Supper And where doe you finde our Sacrament of Penance N. The reason of these things shall afterwards be z In Confirmations and the Visitation of the sicke declared Now I come to Baptisme In the dignitie you giue to Baptisme we note two errours First you corruptly cite the words of Christ to Nicodemus Vnlesse a man be borne of water and of the Holy Ghost For by water you vnderstand the Baptisme of the Floud as you terme it Whereas indeed by water you should conceiue nothing but the purging efficacie of the holy Spirit I. Wee embrace the literall sense why doe you flie to a figure without important necessitie N. Yea necessitie doth vrge vs so to doe For else we should grant the necessitie of externall Baptisme to saluation I. You heard before that Sacraments were thus necessarie Why doe you now rowle the same stone N. Proue in particular now Baptisme to bee necessary to saluation I. First Circumcision was thus necessary For the soule vncircumcised was to be a Gen 17. 14. cut off from the people of God Yea God would haue slaine Moses because hee neglected the Circumcision of his b Exod. 4. 24. Sonne Nay the necke of the Asse-coult not c Exod. 13. 13. redeemed was to bee broken which redemption was proportionable to Circumcision as appeares by the d Exod. 22. 30. time thereof But Baptisme is answerable to e 1. Pet. 3. 21. Circumcision therefore equally necessarie Secondly Baptisme is tearmed the lauer f Titus 3. 5. of regeneration whereby the Church is g Ephes 5. 26. sanctified It is also called the Baptisme of repentance vnto remission h Marke 1. 4. Acts 19 4. of sinnes Yea Peter and Paul being demanded what men should doe to be saued The one in direct words both in practise did vrge i Acts 2. 37 38. 16. 30 33 34 Baptisme aswell as beliefe Yea Christ himselfe saith Hee that beleeueth and is baptized shall bee k Marke 16. 16. saued And Peter peremptorily auerreth that Baptisme l 1. Pet. 3. 21. doth saue N. First it seemes by these places That saluation is not ascribed to Baptisme
but rather to Faith in the Acts to Repentance in Marke to the putting away of the filth of the flesh in Peter I. Tell mee I pray you by whom are these three things wrought N. By the Spirit of God I. And what relation hath the Spirit to Baptisme N. It is the essentiall inward forme thereof whereby the water is assumed as the manhood by Christs God-head I. If that were true why doe you separate the forme from the matter which God hath conioyned But I must here aduertise you that you sticke in a vulgar errour For I demand Is a Sacrament a thing simple or else compounded N. It is compounded of a thing earthly and a thing heauenly I. What is that heauenly thing N. The Spirit of God which purgeth our sinfull soules as water doth our vncleane bodies I. Then obserue this argument Those things of which a thing is compounded are the matter thereof but of water and the holy Spirit Arist Phys lib. 2 cap. 3. Met. lib. 1 cap. 3. lib. 4. cap. 2. Baptisme is compounded these therefore are the matter thereof N. What then doe you make the forme of Baptisme I. The vnion of the Water and the Spirit as the vnion of Christ his Deitie and Humanitie is the forme of his Person And as the vnion of the soule and bodie is the forme of man And this to bee true you might haue learned by Athanasius Creed the matter whereof you Obserue by this that most heresies in diuinitie do proceed from errours in Logique and Philosophie could not before disallow The wordes are these For as the reasonable Soule and flesh is one man So God and man is one Christ By this you may obserue That the Spirit is not disioyned from the water in Baptisme considering they both concurre to make the matter thereof N. But wee cannot be assured that the Spirit doth alwayes concurre with the water howsoeuer you do confidently auouch that Children In the rubrick of Confirmation before the beginning of the Catechisme being baptized haue all things necessary for their Saluation and be vndoubtedly saued Touchinh the former clause thereof I intreate you now to be silent because I will obiect it in Confirmation I. The latter clause then needes little defence For seeing Baptisme is the ordinarie meanes of saluation why should wee causelesly doubt of their Saluation which haue beene made partakers thereof For not only Charitie but euen Equitie forbids vs to doubt N. Yea but some scruple remaineth because we want the certaintie of infallibilitie I. That certaintie is needlesse in our ordinary censures of other mens eternall state For where prudence vpon necessitie doth not weigh down the ballance Charitie must heaue it vp and according to the Law fauours must be inlarged And now let me admonish you of the like cauill made against the words in our Liturgie in the Buriall which are these In sure and certaine hope of resurrection to eternall life By which wee doe not imply a certaintie of infallibilitie but of equitie alone For although persons bee baptized yet if they bee excommunicated or other wayes hainous Malefactors wee denie them the vse of Christian Buriall Forasmuch as by the rule of prudence wee presume not to speake of them in that manner N. Of your Popish Superstitions in Buriall wee shall treate in due place Now against your Scriptures brought for the necessitie of Baptisme although I might except against these words in Genesis shall be cut off from his people as being meant of Temporall Death not of Eternall Damnation yet because I finde some of our owne men so to expound it also I will omit it and come to my second exception which is this You pretend that Baptisme is before Faith whereas both in Marke and the Acts it is set in the latter Acts 8. 37. place Yea and Philip requireth faith of the Eunuch before hee would admit him to Baptisme I. We denie not but in men of yeares faith may come before Baptisme N. By Faith alone wee are saued what need then of Baptisme I. If you speake of absolute necessitie God could haue saued vs not only without Baptisme but euen without faith yea euen without Christ For if hee had giuen vs immutable grace before our fall Christ's death should not haue beene necessarie and so faith had beene void and consequently Baptisme But if you intend a conditionall necessitie in regard of God's Decree it will appeare that Christ's death was an efficient cause howbeit not the principall for that was God's loue but a working Iohn 3. 16. meritorious cause As also that faith is an instrument actiue and Baptisme passiue applying to vs the merits of Christ's death Againe whereas you say that wee are saued by faith alone Doe you imagine that faith may bee void of good workes N. I detest that Poperie But what is this to Baptisme I. Is it not a good worke and fruit of faith to seeke for externall Baptisme N. Yet by this it is manifest that Baptisme succeedeth faith which contradicteth your assertion I. Though Baptisme do only confirme faith in men of yeares is it therefore needlesse to Saluation But yet Infants faith is apparantly concurrent with Baptisme by which it is begotten For as Infants may be elected by Predestination and also may be comprehended in the Couenant and faith of Parents So withall there must be required in them the Spirit of God which shall worke analogicall faith or the Seed-plot thereof from which at the time of effectuall Vocation or Conuersion shall issue the seasonable fruits of Sanctification N. My third exception against your Scriptures is this Whereas it is said He that shall beleeue and be baptized shall be saued it is immediately added He that shall not beleeue shall be condemned So that Baptisme is omitted as no necessarie meanes of saluation I. Your proofes are taken from silent witnesses which cannot bee of force In this manner Baptisme is not mentioned as needfull and therefore is not needfull N. Yet according to the rules of discretion Baptisme should be named aswell in the negatiue as in the positiue I. By the same rule what is largely set downe in the former is vnderstood in the latter because it is presupposed that no heartie beleeuer will neglect Baptisme N. Besides these exceptions against the texts by you alledged wee haue other reasons to disproue the necessitie of Baptisme As first many Persons Circumcised and Baptized haue yet failed of eternall life And therefore it seemeth that these are not necessary meanes of saluation I. Many that haue had sufficient cold and drought in their bodies haue yet died of grieuous diseases and therefore these qualities are not meanes of life N. Heate and moysture must also concurre or else these are insufficient I. So the Spirit must concurre with Water or else it is not auailable For though the Spirit be not tied to Meanes yet may we not vilifie the meanes as vneffectuall or moue
causelesse doubts touching the assistant cooperation of the Spirit N. I secondly thus argue Paul came not to 1. Cor. 1. 17. baptise Therefore Baptisme is not necessarie to saluation The Consequence is apparant For Paul without controuersie came to procure all things necessary thereunto I. Your Consequence is ambiguous For an ordinary Pastor's office is necessary to the saluation of many And yet Saint Paul being an Oecumenicall Apostle who had the care of all Churches could not attend that function Againe your antecedent is impertinent The meaning is open That hee was sent rather to preach then to baptize For that hee baptized some appeares out of that place The like Phrase is in these words I will haue Math. 12. 7. mercy and not Sacrifice That is rather mercie then sacrifice What will you make Sacrifice not necessarie in the time of the Law By all this it appeareth That for feare of the necessitie of Baptisme you relinquish the letter of the text without necessitie N. Though this were yeilded yet for two other reasons we may not here expound water literally First because where the Holy Ghost and fire are conioyned fire may not be taken according Luke 3. 16. to the letter vnlesse wee will follow the vaine custome of the Aethiopians which set fierie prints vpon their Infants through the mistaking of this text I. We need not goe so farre as Aethiopia for our interpretation Compare the Storie of the Acts and there will be no ambiguitie for Acts 1. 5. 2. 3 4. as Iohn fore-told and Christ promised So the Apostles indeed were baptized with the Holy Ghost by the Ministerie of fiery tongues which if the Aethiopians could procure wee would not blame their fierie Ceremonie N. Our second reason is this The scope of Christs speech is to intreat of regeneration which is the worke of the Spirit alone And therefore Iohn 3. 8. it is not probable that there hee should speake of outward Baptisme I. Your sequell is euidently refuted by the words of Christ If when I tell you earthly Iohn 3. 12. things you beleeue not c. where by things earthly wee vnderstand things elementary which appellation may well agree to water in Baptisme In summe remember this That whereas many through a seeming subtletie do embrace tropicall expositions they bewray themselues to be of stomacks distempered not induring solid ordinarie meates N. The second thing whereby you magnifie Baptisme appeare in these wordes By the Baptisme of thy welbeloued Sonne Iesus Christ didst sanctifie the floud Iordan and all other waters to the mysticall washing away of sinne where finde you any warrant for this new deuice I. I wonder where the knot lieth for I conceiue it not as yet Is it in this That we say that all waters are sanctified to the mysticall washing away of sin in Baptisme Thinke you that Abana and Pharphar are better then other Riuers Can you prohibit any kinde of 2. Kings 5. 12. water to be vsed in Baptisme N. That is farre from our meaning But wee dislike that you ascribe the Sanctification of water to the Baptisme of Christ as to the cause I. Why was Christ baptised N. That all righteousnesse might be fulfilled Math. 3. 15. I. What doe you meane the righteousnesse of the Law N. I meane of the Gospell I. Did he fulfill it for himselfe or more principally for vs N. I am no Papist to dreame that he merited any thing for himselfe I. Nay was hee borne did hee liue or die for himselfe N. All for Vs without doubt I. He was then baptized for vs. N. I may not denie it I. Wherefore as his Birth Life and Death did sanctifie the same things in vs So by the water of his Baptisme all waters are sanctified euen as all beasts drinke safely when the Vnicorne hath put his horne into the water So that hee may bee called the first-fruites of the Baptized aswell as of the Dead N. Hitherto of the Dignitie and holinesse of Baptisme Now follow the actions of witnesses or Godfathers as you call them which are foure First you admit questions to bee propounded to them Secondly they promise sundry things for the Children Thirdly the Children by their meanes are said to haue Faith and Repentance Fourthly They impose names vpon the Infants Of which the three first are absurd vnreasonable and almost ridiculous and therefore prophane or blasphemous The fourth is vniust considering it is the parents due to giue names to their Children I. I should maruell much but that amongst Nouelists nothing is to bee wondred at that you can tolerate Godfathers But now I remember my selfe they bee suffered in Geneua Now tell me pray you by what Scripture do you allow them N. Some pretend an ancient custome begun by a Roman Bishop in the dayes of Antoninus Pius who first ordained that certaine choice witnesses should present the Children to the Congregation in case their Parents were dead or fled for persecution Others alledge the witnesses recorded in Isaiah the Prophet Isa 8. 2. I. But now you know are the times of peace and so the former cause is void As for the latter it was drawne from a Propheticall and singular practise and therefore hardly may be vrged as imitable Could we produce no firmer Scriptures for our Ecclesiasticall practice then such as those would you not cry out vpon vs as Hercules Furens or as Orestes N. What better proofes then haue you for your Godfathers I. Children are truly said to be baptized into the faith of others which speech is by many mistaken For they suppose they are baptised into the faith of their immediate Parents only which being granted the Children not only of Pagans and Turkes which are taken in Warre but euen of persons excommunicated yea of all that are destitute of true faith shall be interdicted the vse of Baptisme Whereas the truth is that Infants are receiued into the faith and bosome of the Church which is the Keepresse of the Couenant The Church therefore chuseth certaine witnesses as representatiue persons to whom the questions are tendered and by whom the promises are vttered in the behalfe of the Babes No maruell then though by their meanes Infants be said to haue Faith and Repentance and to receiue their Christian names from them as being their Fathers in God and therefore not vnaptly tearmed Godfathers The generall proofe of which thing is drawne from all Lawes which allow sundry actions done by Guardians in the minoritie of their Wards to be as firme as if the Pupils themselues had performed them in their owne persons being come to the yeares of discretion N. To admit this reason yet to preiudice the Parents who should haue the right of naming their Children cannot but bee very iniurious I. You are worse afraid then hurt For they are very contentions Godfathers which aske not the Parents consent in this matter But where be your Scriptures to proue that