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A69047 A dialogue betwixt Cosmophilus and Theophilus anent the urging of new ceremonies upon the kirke of Scotland Calderwood, David, 1575-1650, attributed name.; Murray, John, 1575?-1632, attributed name. 1620 (1620) STC 4355; ESTC S114406 21,825 48

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of bodily or country libertie will follow by warding confining or banishment Theoph. O inconvenient ceremonies which drawe after them such inconveniences I see it is a just complaint which many worthy divines take up against them affirming that these indifferent ceremonies as yee call them have bred greater difference and division in the kirk and yet do then the doctrine it selfe They have ever been as the story of the Kirk in all ages reports that apple of contention cast in by that old and subtile Serpent which hath vexed the Paradise of God Therefore would to God say they that the Kirk were once rid and freed of them Cosm. Tush Theoph. they will be and will abide in the Kirk when ye and I both are dead rotten Theoph. I hope yee shall prove a false Prophet Cosm. and if so be what shall I say offences must come but woe unto them by whom they come Heresies schismes and troubles must be that they vvho are approved of God may be known 1. cor 11 Cosm. But answer to the poynt Theoph. I perceive yee would fain shift it Theoph. I confesse I vvould faine shift your ill if I could but not an answer to you I vvould understand by vvhat reason yee can enforce obedience to these things And if not by what equitie ye can bind their punishments upon their backe● in case of non-obedience Cosmoph It is sufficient that king and kirk will have it so Theoph. It is not will Cosmoph but reason that I crave Gods vvill I know must aud should go for reason but mans vvill vvants that priviledge I have answered before sufficiently to that onely wil-argument or violent reason of yours Cosm. Think ye it not very equitable Theop. that the benefits of the Church be denied to those who deny obedience to the Church and that they may be justly fined in their purses vvho will not obey in their persons the command of the King and Kirk and last that they are unworthy of his Maj●sties favour or of a place of state in his kingdome vvho will not follow his practise and obey his precept Theoph. Not surely Cosm. For vvhat equity is it to deny the benefits of the Kirk to those vvho are both in and of the Kirk or to punish either in purse of person for obeying rather God then man As to vvorldly favour and places it is better to keep Gods favour then coilye mens better keepe peace in conscience then place in earthly kingdomes Cosm. Now I will leave the Professors and come to the Preachers It will go very hardly with them if they obey not For the Church will take their calling from them and close their mouth and the king their living and their liberty Theo. That is a hard saying indeed drawes with it a great hinderance to the free course of Christs Evangell and a furtherance to the Antichristian course Yet if so shal be the comfort of faithfull Preachers is that no creature is able to take a good conscience the love of God and the liberty of the Spirit from them But I will aske what kirk is this of yours that will close up the mouthes of the faithfull servants of Christ. The good people it cannot be for they heavily regrate such iniquity The faithfull Pastors it cannot bee for in none of their meetings generall provinciall or presbyteriall have they allowed such work So it rests that your Bishops must bee this crabbed Kirk who being once so solemnly banished out of our Kirk as belonging to that Antichristian crew hath cropen back againe upon us and minds after this manner to revenge the old quarrel Alas Cosm. if they proceed after that fort how shall the rooms of honest Preachers be supplied Cosm. Ye may be sure Theoph. they wil get anew to fill their rooms Theoph. There may be anew Cosm. and yet little worth who will rather defile their roomes then fill them who will love the fleece better then the flock who will study more to be Patrons of Episcopacie ceremonies to please the Bishops then paternes of pietie charitie and sobriety to profite the people Cosm. But ye must consider more deeply of this matter Theoph. ye must not think that your Ministers should leave their calling and forsake their flock for such things that wil be an ill and ungodly doing Theoph. Ye mistake the matter very farr Cosmop for they are not leavers of their calling but your Bishops are reavers of their calling from them They are not forsakers of their flockes but your Bishops are wilfull and violent ruggers of them from their flock They are patients not agents sufferers of violence and not actors in that wickednesse who would rather leave and forsake their lives if it lay in their hands Your Bishops indeed Cosm. for their worldly ease profit and preferment in effect willingly have left their former calling or pastorall charge and violently thrust honest men out of their places because they will not allow their evill course Cosm. Nay but they should not suffer themselves to be deprived of their ministery and loose the exercise therof for matters of this indifferent nature Theoph. Ye must confesse then Cos. that farr lesse should your Bishops whose words these are d●prive them from their ministery for matters of that indifferent nature and if they doe they are damned of them own selves Tit. 3. 11. They avow and argue them to be matters indifferent but they urge them as matters of necessity and lay upon their omission the pain of deprivation Therefore our faithfull Pastors who count them not indifferent may lawfully suffer themselves rather to be deprived from their calling then deprive themselves of a good conscience by doing any thing against it Cosm. Let alone Theoph. I tell you over again it is better for them to yield to these things then to loose their ministery or the exercise of it Theoph. They loose no ministery Cosm. who keep a good conscience and give testimony by suffering to Christs cause that is a speciall poynt of their ministery when they are called to it They stand in the reputation of GOD faithfull ministers let men account of them as they will As to the closing up of the exercise thereof ye may perceive how the contrary will fall out For the liberty taken from them in their own parishes by mens malice is given to them in prison or banishment by Gods providence Albeit they be cast in bands or under banishment yet Gods word is not bound nor banished C. Beside the former wil ye consider Theo. their inconveniences also they will loose their worldly moyen and maintenance and this yland will not keep them Theoph. Will yee consider Cosm. that the earth and the fulnesse therof is the Lords and that this Iland is but a silly angle of it If it cast them out and close the doore upon them their provident and gracious Lord who hath called them will care for them and open in forrain