purpose teaching onelie that we are consecrated or made perfect by baptisme which is true in respect of sanctification and remission of sinnes but prooueth not that concupiscence which you confesse to be an euil thing remaining in the regenerate is chaunged in nature to be no sinne although it be forgiuen and shall not be imputed to the elect For the wrong quoting of Augustine do 〈◊〉 concupiscent You were best quarrell with your printer for Master Charke hath instlie charged your booke with error in the first edition whereunto he answered which you will not vnderstand but charge him with ignorance quarreling and impudencie whereas your quotation was twise lib. de nupt concupiscent And not as you saie now lib. 1. de nupt concupiscent You with that you were with Master Charke to see if he would blush at his ignorance by you discouered and cal backe your wish for feare of purseuants But I looke not at all that your brasen face should blush either at so small a fault or at so false a defense thereof which are not ashamed of a great number of more wrong and impudent quotationes then that is for which though no purseuantes shall attach you yet the reproch of them shall pursue you to the vtter confusion of your proude and arrogant Censure and more impudent and vnlearned defense Finallie Ambrose lib. 1. de voc gent. c. 5. hath not one worde to prooue that concupiscence in the regenerate is no sinne of it selfe But where Master Charke rehearseth not the verie wordes but the meaning of Saint Augustine expounding him-selfe in what sense he saith that concupiscence is not sinne you set abroad all the sailes of your rayling and venemous tongue and penne against him Saint Augustines words are dimitti concupiscentiam carnis in baptismo non vt non sit sed vt in peccatum non imputetur Quamuis autem reatu suo iam soluto manet tamen donec sanetur omnis infirmitas nostra proficiente renouatione interioris hominis de die in diem cúm exterior induerit incorruptionem non enim substantialiter manet sicut aliquod corpus aut spiritus sed affectio est quaedam malae qualitatis sicut languor Concupiscence of the flesh is remitted in baptisme not so that it is not but so that it is not imputed to sinne And albeit the guilt thereof be loosed yet it remaineth vntil al our infirmitie behealed the renuing of the inward man profiting from daie to daie when the outward man shall haue put on incorruption for it remaineth not substantiallie as a bodie or a spirit but it is a certaine affection of euill qualitic as a sickenes These words declare that concupiscence being an affection of euill qualitie which is as much to saie as sinne remaning in the regenerate although it be not imputed to them as sin for that if they 〈◊〉 against it it shall not preuaill against them to condemne them A sinne not imputed is a sinne of his owne nature The sinnes of Gods elect are not imputed to them they are forgiuen the guilt is taken awaie they are washed awaie in the blood of Christ they are as white as wooll and as snowe yet of their owne nature they are foule abhominable and detestable transgressions of Gods lawe so is concupiscence against the lawe thou shalt not lust as Augustine often confesseth therefore of it selfe sinne euen in the regenerate to whome it is remitted The similutude of a sickenes also whereunto Augustine doth often compare it sheweth the same For a sicknes if it be not healed either by strength of nature preuailing or by medicine doth either cause death or remaineth as long as life so concupiscence of itselfe would kill if the medicines of Christs redemption did not ouercome the malice of it and in the ende take awaie the disease from the rootes But for a cleerer proofe Master Charke alledgeth that Saint Augustine in an other place saith plainlie it is sinne You answer that he saith onelie of concupiscence in generall that it is sinne and not of concupiscence in the regenerate But that Saint Augustine speaketh of concupiscence in the regenerate it is manifest by this reason for that he saith concupiscence of the flesh against which the good spirit lustesh which is onelie in the regenerate As he him selfe saith in an other place by you quoted Non enim rectè cuiusquam spiritus concupisceret aduersue carnem suam nisi habitaret in illo spiritus Christi For no mans spirit should rightlie lust against his fiesh except the spirit of Christ did dwell in him But that concupiscence without consent is properlie no sinne you saie Saint Augustine prooneth by the wordes of Paule him-selfe who calleth it sinne in the chapter last remembred but that is false he only retaineth his vsuall acception of the word sinne for actualsin as Saint Iames doth whose termes of conception and bringing forth also he vseth yet he concludeth that concupiscence without consent is euill is to be chastised to be brideled to be fought against to be ouercome which prooueth sufficientlie that it is sinne though not actuall sinne yet properlie sinne from which we can not be deliuered but by the grace of Christ sinne of another kinde sinne in another degree called sinnne in the scripture and therefore without controuersie except we will trifle in vaine contention of termes and childish sophismes where the matter is plaine sinne in deede and properlie which of his owne nature deserueth death but that it is purged by the blood of Christ as all other sinnes of what sort or degree soeuer they be in those that are saued That Saint Augustine vseth other whiles the termes of veniallie and mortallie when he speaketh of sinning it can not defend your distinction wherebie you holde that there be some sinnes so smale as of their owne nasure they deserue not damnation contrarie to the scripture that saith generallie the reward of sinne is death Whereas Saint Augustine meaneth onelie degrees of sinnes whereof some are lesse some are hainous yet all deserue death For Saint Augustine must be vnderstood according to the scripture but the scripture must not be racked to agree with Saint Augustine Hitherto concerning the doctrine of the Iesuites that concupiscence in the regenerate without consent is not sinne Against this doctrine Gotuisus opposeth the wordes of our Sauiour Christ Mat. 5. 28. whosoeuer shall see a woman to lust after her he hath alreadie committed adulterie with her in his heart which text you confirme as you said before to be alledged ignorantlie and against him-selfe because here is a manifest consent of the heart expressed to make concupiscence adulterie And for that purpose you cite Saint Augustine and to all this you aske what sir William replyeth and answer your selfe Surelie nothing but maketh a long idle speake of praedicatum and subiectum as pertinent to the matter as Charing crosse to Billings gate If William Charkes
that immediately follow in Luther declare that now he would doe worsse then before for now he would compell the poore husbandes to graunt their wiues that libertie or els would he tugge them by the lockes of the heade And can there be anie more shameles dealings c. If Luther declare his opinion in the words following to be as you say I must needes confes that this was a great ouersight in Master Charke at lest if it were not shameles dealing But if Luthers meaning by the whole scope of that place be plaine not to giue the wife licence to lie with an other man the band of wedlocke continuing but to compell such an insufficient husband to be deuorced from his wife because she cannot haue the lawfull remedie of incontinency by his companie do you not plaie the papist in graine thus to exclame against Master Charks false dealing As for the phrase of tugging by the Locks being a Dutch prouerb signifying no more but inforcement to vse your owne words hath that man anie conscience trow you that will vrge it to colour such vnhonest and false accusations Verily you had bene better to haue held your peace for now you are and shal be more hereafter discouered while you slaunder him vntruely to vse deceit and do vse false plaie your selfe and that most impudentlie Another example of his false dealing you bring in the controuersie Whether concupiscense in the regenerate without consent be sinne Where Master Chark being sore oppressed by many places of Saint Augustines auctoritie brought by the Censurer findeth no other reliefe of his credit with the reader but to forge a place of Saint Augustine to the contrarie in which to deceaue the reader he foisteth in this word sinne reciting his words thus Concupiscense is not so forgiuen in Baptisme that it is not sinne By which addition of the word sinne the matter seemeth to stand cleere on his side And this cannot be excused by ignorance but sheweth open and wilfull malice in the man Hasty iudgement Peraduenture he may excuse the addition by the Printers fault and so it was neither ignorance nor malice in him But take it moste hardly that Master Chark did purposely adde the word sinne vnto S. Augustines text which yet in a strict translation where there is no neede is not alowable if it be manifest that it is Saint Augustines meaning the addition of a word for explication of the sense is neither forging nor foisting But it is most impudentlying in you sir setter forth to say he findeth none other reliefe of his credit with the reader but to adde this word sinne to S. Augustines text when immediatly after this pretended forgerie he bringeth a most cleere place of Saint Augustine in which he doth expressly affirme that concupiseense euen in them that haue the spirit of God is sinne which argueth that he needed not at al to forge and foist hauing Saint Augustines words so euident on his side and that he findeth not onely another but a farr better reliefe of his credit with trueth then he could looke to gaine if he had bene disposed to vse false dealing Master Charkes wordes are these Saint Augustines place making it no sinne in the regenerate without consent is expounded by him-selfe afterward saying Concupis cense is not so forgiuen in Baptisme that it is not sinne but that it is not imputed as sinne For a cleere proofe hereof in another booke he saieth plainly it is sinne and so shewing the occasion of his saying citeth the place at large Cont. Iul. lib. 5. cap. 3. in which are these wordes Concupiscense of the flesh against which the good spirit lusteth is sinne because there is in it a disobedience against the regiment of the minde Where he saith for a cleerer proofe it is probable that the word sinne in the formet text was not added by him at lest wise not to deceaue for with the addition you will confesse it is as cleare as can be for his parte But if he added that word as being of the plaine meaning of Saint Augustine yet subiect to cauilling because it is not in him expressed to take awaie al colour of wrangling about the terme he ioyneth a moste cleere proofe of Saint Augustines iudgement plaine that concupiscense in the regenerate is sinne in his owne nature although because it is forgiuen it is not imputed to them as sinne So that the sense is manifest that concupiscense in the regenerate is sinne but sinne forgiuen or sinne not imputed And therefore although in some sense a man may truely say that sinne forgiuen as adulterie is no sinne or sinne not imputed is no sinne because the guiltines there of is remoued from the 〈◊〉 remission couering or not imputing through Gods mercy or satisfaction of Christ yet it followeth not there of that sinne of his owne nature is not damnable because mercy hath made it remissible or that sin forgiuen as adultety or such like cannot be properly called sinne because it is pardoned but the cleane contrary doth follow of necessity euen so is cōcupiscens which is forgiuen in the regenerate yet remaineth in them not as a vertue or an indifferent thing but as an euil thing as Augustine els where confesseth yet no sinne able to condemne them because it is not imputed to them or because it is pardoned in them Therefore except you wil say that sinne forgiuen or not imputed ceaseth to be sinne in his owne nature concupiscense in the regenerate is sin although forgiuen not imputed to them But of this matter inough at this time seing it is to be handled more at large hereafter and to be plainly shewed that Saint Augustine although in some sense he say that concupiscense is no sinne yet in another sense he doth as plainly affirme that it is sinne and such as would condemne vnto death if it were not satisfied by Christ and remitted vnto the regenerate Your third example of his purpose to deceaue is that not hauing at hand the Censure of Collen it selfe he reporteth diuerse vntruthes against the Iesuites out of Gotuisus concealing his name quoting onely Censura Coloniensis which he is sure cannot be seene as not to be had in England andomitting Canisius whom his author Gotuisus doth likewise cite which may be had and red of euery man This is but a bare surmise without any sufficient reason to vphold it of two he citeth one Ergo he seeketh to deceaue And as for the Censure of Collen it is now as common to be had in England as Canisius his Catechisme although when Master Chark did set forth his first booke it was not to be sold in the shops yet many had it in their studies And it seemeth he did chuse to cite that which was like to be of greater authoritie among the Papists as done by consent of a wholl Vniuersity But it toucheth him more neerely that where Gotuisus did not beelie the Iesuites sufficiently Master
haue no sinne and of the obstinate Iewes If I had not come and spoken vnto them they should haue had no sinne If I had not done those workes among them which no other could doe they should haue had no sinnes Luthers meaning is therefore that vnbeleefe is the greatest and onelie sinne that damneth a man because all other sinns are forgiuen to him that beleeueth is baptized according to the promise of god Secondlie where Luther speaketh expresselie of a Christian baptized you say simplie a man where he saith with any sianes how great soeuer you sate doe what mischeefe he can And as for your blasphemous collection that a man cannot leese his saluation if he would neuer so faine c. and that he may doe what he will so he fall not into incredulitie Luther him-selfe in three wordes sheweth how farre it is from his meaning in his answere to the gatherers of errours out of his doctrine which delt more honestlie with him then you For they said Baptizatum etiam volentem c. that the baptized man though he be willing cannot leese his saluation Luther answereth Quia fides tollis omnia peccara facit volentem non pecca re Rom. 1. because faith taketh awaie all sinnes and maketh a man willing not to sinne For euen in his booke de captiuitate Bab. he addeth this condition which you doe fraudulentlie omitte Siredeat vel 〈◊〉 fides if faith doe returne or stand For by the same faith or rather the trueth of Gods promise all other sinnes are swallowed vp because God cannot denie him selfe if thou shalt confesse him and cleaue faithfullie vnto him that promiseth To conclude faith and good workes be vnseperable and the faithfull man although by corruption of nature he is apt dailie to fall away from God into most greeuous sinnes yet by grace he is either preserued from heinous sinnes or els he is brought to repentance and sorrow for the same So that Luthers doctrine of faith and vnbeleefe if it be vnderstood rightlie as he doth often expiicate himselfe is full of comfort to a troubled conscience yet giueth not bridle to sinne or carnall libertie And therfore howsoeuer you wrest his wordes from his meaning you shew yourselfe no lesse an impudent liar then the false witnesses that deposed against our sauiour Christ that he said destroie this temple and within three dayes I will raise it againe which wordes in deede he spake but not in that sense they deposed and therfore are condemned by the holie ghost as liars and false witnes bearers Luther saith onely infidelitie is the trouble of the conscience because there is nothing but sinne and damnation where there is no faith you conclude that nothing is sinne but vnbeleefe whereas in vnbeleefe there is nothing but sinne and being iustified by faith we haue peace with god And there is no condemnation to them that are in Christ Iesus who walke not after the flesh but after the spirit Againe where ' Luther saith that nothing maketh a wickedman but infidelitie because it is the roote of all wickednes and bringeth with it all wickednes you conclude that no other sinne maketh a man wicked which is true if it be vnderstood of him that hath faith is truly penitent for his sinne hath it pardoned by Gods mercie For to such one though his sinns were as redde as scarlet they are made as white as wol neither is he to be called Prauns a wicked man but rectus or iustus a right or a iust man who shall liue by his faith The second doctrine is so manifest a cauill that you doe in a manner acknowledge a satisfaction both by Master Hanmer and Master Charke onelie you would haue it considered how these wordes of Luther do sound in the eares of the people The enne commaundements appertaine nothing to vs. As though Luther did sette downe this Aphorisme so barelie that he did not plainlie declare his meaning For this he saith in his sermon intituled how the bookes of Moses are to be read with fruite Doctorem sanè c. truely we doe receiue and acknowledge Moses as a teacher of whome we learne much profitable doctrine as after shal be said but we do not acknowledge him to be a law giuer or a gouernour sithe he him-selfe restrained his ministerie to that people onelie Againe in answer to this question Why the tenne commaundements are to be obserued of vs Seeing Moses pertaineth not vnto vs he saith Sed inquis c. but thou saiest certainlie the commanndements of Moses that is of God are these not to haue straunge Gods to feare god to trust him and obeie him not to abuse his name to giue honour to parentes not to kill not to steals not to commit adulterie not to beare false witnesse c. is it not necessarie that we obserue these things I answere they are to be oserued of all men and they pertaine to all men not because they were commaunded by Moses but because these lawes that are rehearsed in the tenne commaundements are written in the nature of men For God hath imprinted these notices in all men euen in their creation Wherefore euen the gentiles to whome Moses was unknowen and to whome God hath not spoken as to them do know that God is to be obeyed God is to be called vpon parentes are to be honoured men must adstaine from murther and iniurie of others c. because these thinges displease God and are punished of him In the end he concludeth thus Dico igitur seruanda esse hee 〈◊〉 decalogi c. 1 saie therefore that these ion commaundementes are to be obserued not because Moses hath 〈◊〉 them which thing pertained to that people one lie but because all men haue these knowledges imprinted in nature with which Moses also agreeth If this be not sufficient to declare his iudgement to be farre from abolishing of the morall law I reporre me to you Now whether the ten commaundements appartaine more to Christians then to gentiles or Iewes we will not 〈◊〉 at this time Howsoeuer it be Luther saith not as you conclude that by this meanes they should no more appertaine to vs then to gentiles in whose nature also they were written But rather the contrarie maie be concluded by good Logick out of Luthers reason If they did appertaiue to the gentiles because they were writen in their nature much more to Christians in whose heart they are written also by the spirit of god What shall I saie more the Lord shall destroy all deceitfull lippes and the tongue that speaketh proudiie Thirdlie you reporte that Luther said It is a false opinion and to be abolished that there are 4. Gospels For the Gospell of Iohn is the onelie faire true and principall Gospel For this you cited his preface in nouum Testamentum which Master Charke cannot finde nor anie man els that I heare of in latine You saie it is not
operuerit numquid quia non est ex fide peccatum est prorsus in quantum non ex fide peccatum est non quia per se ipsum factū quod est nudum operire peccatum est sed de tali opere non in domino gloriari solus impius negat esse peccatum If an heathen man saiest thou doe cloath the naked is it sinne because it is not of faith yea out of doubt in as much as it is not of faith it is sinne Not because the deede it selfe which is to cloath the naked is sinne but not to reioyce in the Lord of such a worke none but an vngodlie man will denie to be sinne This and much more to this effect hath Saint Augustine in that place against the Pelagians which with the papists denied that such workes of the infidels were sinne But albeit Saint Augustine be directlie against you yet Saint Ierome you thinke may helpe you in Ezechiell cap. 29. whoe saith thus Caeterùm ex eo quòd Nabuchodonoser mercedem accepit boni operis intelligimus etiam ethnicos si quid boni fecerint non absque mercede Dei iudicio praeteriri But of this that Nabuchodonvser receuied arewarde of good workes we vnderstand that euen the gentiles if they haue done any goood thing are not passed ouer without rewarde by the iudgement of God To this I answere that God rewardeth vertue in the gentiles it prooueth not their morall workes are not sinne in as much as they are not done of faith as S. Augustine at large teacheth in both the bookes and places last cited For those good facts are of the reliques of Gods image not altogether blotted out which God doth reward as his owne worke in them but in as much as they doe not those good deedes well they are sinne in the doers as Saint Augustine saieth and therefore neither Saint Augustine nor Saint Ierome are against Master Charke in this cause The third fault of your definition Master Chark saith is that you restraine sinne onelie to voluntarie action Against which you oppose Saint Augustine in manie quotations where he repeateth these words so often Sinne is an euill so voluntarie as it can be by no meanes sinne except it be voluntarie But what his iudgement was of those wordes appeareth best in his retractations which you quote lib. 1. cap. 13. 15. In the former he saith patest videri falsa haec definitio sed si diligenter discutiaiur inuenieiur esse verissima Peccatum quippe illud intelligendum est quod tantummodo peccatum est non quod est etiam paena peccati c. This difinition maie seeme to be false but if it be diligently discussed it shall be found to be most true For that sinne is to be vnderstood therein which is onelie sinne and not also the punishment of sinne as I haue shewed before when I rehearsed certaine thinges out of my third booke of free will Although euen those sinnes which not vnworthelie are called sinnes not voluntarie because they are committed either by them which know not or which are compelled can not be committed altogether without the will because euen he which sinneth of ignorance sinneth willinglie when he thinketh that to be donne which ought not to be donne And he which doth not those thinges which he will the flesh lusting against the spirit lusteth truelie vnwillinglie and there in doth not what he will but if he be ouercome he consenteth to concupiscence willinglie and therein doth not what he will being free from Iustice and a seruant of sinne And that which in children is called originall sinne when as yet they vse not the free choise of will is not absurdlie called also voluntarie because being drawne from the euill will of the first man it is made as it were comming by inheritance The same in effect he saith C. 15. answering that he had set downe de duabus animabus c. 14. Propterea vera est c. That definition is true for this cause for that that sinne is defined which is onelie sinne and not that sinne which is a punishment of sinne Againe he saith sine voluntate nullum esse petcatum siue in opere siue in origine that there is no sinne without will either in the worke or in the beginning By which sayings Saint Augustines iudgement is plaine that in the particular worke there are sinnes that are not voluntarie as those that come of ignorance or compulsion or as concupiscence original infection yet al these may be called voluntarie in respect of the first mans offence in whome was freedome of will which Master Chark graunteth and therefore that childish insultation needed not but to shew your pride in contempt of others as though al learning had beene bred with you and were like to die if you did not plant it in vs. Saint Augustine therefore is cleere that that sinne which is a punishment of sinne is not voluntarie and that his definition as he calleth it was onelie of sinne which hath none other consideration but as sinne his disputation being against the Manichees which deriued sinne from an euill God and not from the free will of man or deuill first created good by the onelie good God But you haue scripture to prooue euerie act or omission which is sin to be voluntarie because Christ him selfe saith that those things which do defile a man do come from the heart as though nothing might come frō that corruptroote the heart of man which is not voluntarie You your selfe affirm that euil thoughts are not voluntary which he saith come from the heart Mat. 15. 19. Now concerning the obiection of originall sinne there hath beene inough said out of Saint Augustine concer ning the other obiection of manslaughter donne without consent of will which you affirme to be innocencie God defend euerie good Christian from such innocencie At least wise you might haue made such a fact committed by error a voluntarie sinne by the first mans sinne that was of free will which if it had not beene no man should haue erred in that case or anie other But the text you tel vs calleth him an innocent man liberabitur innocens c the innocent shall be deliuered from the hand of the reuenger So great a Rabbin as you would seeme to be by your quotations out of Rabbi Isaac Rabbi Mose and Rabbi Leui should not be ignorant that in the hebrew text the word is harotzeach that is the killer not the innocent which yet is adiudged to escape punishment of death by the politike law because in respect of mans iudgement he hath not offended for which cause also Deut. 19. his blood is called innocent Yet his flying to the citie of refuge and imprisonment there vntill the death of the high priest argueth as Master Charke saith that there is somthing in his fact or the error by which he committed the fact that hath neede of forgiuenes by Christ
creature can haue except he be also creator and God himselfe therefore Christ truelie as man receiueth that which is giuen but in respect and right of his godheade he is able to receiue and exercise that power which none can haue but God onelie These thinges indeede maie seeme vnto the simple to be farre fetched and farre from the question of priests power to remit sinnes but they are much farther from the truth of our Catholike faith and Religion that our sauiour Christ in respect of his Diuine nature should be spoiled of his authority or els should thereby worke nothing in a manner in the cheife most necessarie partes of our redemption that Popish priests might be made equall or not farre vnlike him in the power of pardoning sinnes ALLEN For as the due consideration of Christes authoritie and excellent office touching his manhood will helpe vp the decaied honour and iurisdiction that the guides of Gods Church by the right of his high calling do iustlie challenge so it shall expresse the boldnesse of certaine miscreants of this age who to further their sundrie euil in tents and detestable doctrines haue dishonoured Christes dignitie touching his incarnation and office of his redemption exceeding much both in himselfe and in persons of his Pristes and substitutes some of them fearing as I take it lest the honour and office of Christes Priesthood might by participation descend to the Apostles and Priestes of the Church letted not to hold that Christ was his fathers Priest according to his diuine nature of which blasphemie Iohn Caluine was iustlie noted wherein the wicked man whiles he went about to disgrace the dignitie of mortall men became exceeding iniurious to the second person in Trinitie One other of that schoole and of his owne neast denied that Christ in his manhoode should iudge the world lest there might seeme to be some force of punishment and correction of wickednes practized by mans ministerie in this life for the resemblance of Christes iudgement to come And so taught one Richerius of a Carmelite a Caluinist Other deny Christ being now in heauen to make praier for vs according to his manhoode because it tendeth towardes the intercession as Saint Paulin expresse wordes recordeth of him Quòd saluare in perpetuum potest accedens ad Deum per semetipsum semper viuens ad interpellandum pro nobis That for euer he is of power to giue saluation hauing accesse to God by him-selfe and alwaies Iiuing to make intercession for vs. Yea most of the Sacramentaries for the aduantage of their vngodlie assertion that Christ in his owne person as he is God and man should not be present in the sacrament doe couertlie blaspheme the blessed and highlie sanctified fleshof our sauiour auouching it to be vnprofitable whereby they vnaduisedlie dishonour the dreadfull incarnation of Christ and all the workes wrought by the meane of his flesh and blood and ministerie of his manhoode for the remission of our sinnes and purchasing saluation to his Church FVLKE The due consideration of Christes authoritie and excellent office touching his manhoode will nothing helpe to restore the decaied honour and iurisdiction of Popish priesthoode except you can both prooue your Popish priests capable of such honour and power as the sonne of God is and also bring forth the recordes out of the holy scriptures for that high calling whereof you boast That any faithful Christian whome you to maintaine an Antichristian authoritie call Miscreantes haue dishonoured Christs dignitie touching his incarnation and office of his redemption it is a slaunder stronglie aduouched but slenderlie prooued For first Caluine affirming Christ to be a priest in his wholl person God and man derogateth nothing from that dignitie neither is he iniurious against the second person in trinitie for Christ is an high priest after the order of Melchesidech and our redeemer not as a minister and seruant onelie but as the sonne as the King os peace and righteousnes without father without mother without genealogy hauing neither beginning of his daies nor end of his life al which things can not be restrained to the humanitie of Christ but are proper to him as he is equall and eternall with his father That Richerius should denie that Christ in his manhoode should iudge the world it might well be a slaunder of that grosse potheaded Cyclops Villegagnon which when he durst not abide the inuasions of the barbarous people in Gallia antarctica where he had enterprised a conquest he quarelled with Richerius and other godlie persons to haue a colour of returne and a wellcome of the Papists And as touching his slaunderous libell that you send the reader vnto I referre you them to the answere confutation of Richerius Thirdlie that Christ doth make praiers for vs according to his manhoode it is not sufficiently prooued by the text of the Apostle to the Heb. 7. because he may and doth make continuall intercession for vs by the vertue and worthines of the sacrifice of his death although he conceiue no prayers for vs in forme of wordes as men vse vpon earth And if it be graunted that Christ so praieth for vs yet it tendeth nothing towardes the intercession of Saints but rather against it because the interceffion of Christ is sufficient without them yea if the intercession of Saints were prooued it draweth not of necessity praier vnto Saints after it and therefore there were smal purpose in them that denie Christ in such forme to praie for vs to controul the inuocatiō of Saints which thing being either graunted or denied prooueth neither too nor fro that Saints are to be praied vnto or 〈◊〉 That any one of those whome you cal Sacramentaries doth either ouertly or couertly blaspheme the blessed flesh of our Sauiour auouching it to be vnprofitable otherwise then our sauiour Christ himselfe auouched if it were separated from his diuine and quickening spirite doth profitte nothing you are not able to iustifie and therefore you send vs in the margent to Cyrill vpon Iohn lib. 4. Cap 14. whoe sheweth in deede that the flesh of Christ as it is the flesh of the sonne of God hath quickening vertue and power in it to our eternall redemption but otherwise affirmeth nothing thereof that we all are not readie to subscribe vnto ALLEN Let vs therefore Christianlie confes with the scripture and with the Church of Christ that our sauiour not onelie by power equall to his father concerning his diuine nature but also by the sending and graunt of his father and vnction of the holie spirit beeing farre vnder them both in his humane nature doth remit sinnes Whereupon it orderlie followeth that whosoeuer denyeth man to haue authoritie or that he maie haue power graunted him by God to forgiue sinnes he is highlie iniuriouse to our sauiours owne person dispensation of his flesh and mysterie of his holie incarnation For though there be great diuersitie betwixt his state and others because
by them which haue the holie ghost in them-selues For when they remit or retaine the spirit which dwelleth in them remitteth or retaineth by them And that shal be by them as I thinke by two meanes first by baptisme and then by repeatence for either they induce men that beleeve and are approoued for holines of life vnto baptisme and diligentlie expill from them that are vnworthie or where the children of the Church doe offend they rebuke them indeede and pardon them that repent As Paul did once commit the fornicator among the Corinthians vnto the destruction of his flesh that his spirit might be saued and receiued him againe lest he should be drowned with greater sorrowe Therefore when the spirit of Christ dwelling in men performeth the worke of the true God how shall he not be God by nature which naturallie possesseth the power and dignitie of the diuine nature when he hath so excellent authority vpon the lawe of God This last argument of Saint Cyrill by which he prooueth against the Macidonian heretikes that the holie Ghost is verie God declareth that he neuer meant to deifie Priests with the same authority that is proper to god by which it should follow that the holie Ghost were not God if men had that authority of remitting sin that god hath wherefore it followeth that men are onely instruments by which the holie ghost speaketh declareth his own will of remission of sins not that the holie Ghost is subiect to the Censure of man which were intollerable blasphemie And therefore if the same father did anie where cal the ministers of the Church protectours an̄d curers both of bodies and soules it cannot be drawne to anie such meaning as though they were in deede deified and made as you would saie partakers of Gods nature to worke Gods owne office in the world but the ministers of God appointed to serue for the eternall saluation of the Elect both in bodie and soule Their order is diuine and they exercise the office of the holie ghost as S. Ambrose saith but yet so that nothing is communicated vnto man that is proper to God Who they were that did simplie and plainlie tearme the principall Pastours of the Church halfe gods not meere men you do not expresse perhaps you meane the Author of that blasphemous verse writen to the the Pope and by him not refused Nec Deus es nec homo quasi neuter es inter vtrumque Thou art neither god nor man but a neuter between both I finde in the scripture that ciuil princes are called not halfe Gods but whole Gods because they execute some parte of Gods authoritie among men Yet he that shall saie their persons̄ are therebie deified might well be accounted a most blaspemous flatterer We may now see out of what pudle the toades of the familie of Loue are crept that vpon pretence of the spirit of god dwelling in men moste blasphemouslie affirme that it deifieth their persons to make them of abilitie to exercise the workes of God whereas the power of remitting of sinnes is graunted euen to wicked Priestes in which the holie Ghost dwelleth not although he hath bestowed his giftes vpon them to make them sufficient in knowledge and vtterance to preach the gospell ALLEN But Saint Ambrose helpeth our matter with a long discourse all I will not now reporte for the present purpose thus he saith disputing against the Nouarians for the assertion of Priestly dignitie in assoyling our sinnes Qui Spiritum sanctum accipit sic enim scriptum est Accipite spiritum sanctum quorum remiseritis peccata remittuntur eis quorum retinueritis retenta sunt Ergo qui soluere peccatum non potest non habet Spiritum sanctum Munus spiritus sancti est officium sacerdotis ius autem spiritus sancti in soluendis ligandis que criminib est He thatreceiueth the holy ghost his meaning is in the taking of orders receiueth therewith the power to binde and loose For so is it written Receiue you the holie Ghost whose sinnes you doe forgiue they are forgiuen them whose sinnes you doe reseine they are reteined Therefore they which cannot forgiue mens offences they haue not the holie ghost that is to saie they haue not the gift of the holie Ghost which is giuen to the officers for their execution of their function in Christes behalfe for the gift of the holie Ghost is the office of the priest and proper right of remission of sinnes standeth in the holie Ghost Thus wrote Saint Ambrose against the heretikes of his time and both toucheth and ouer ouercommeth all the falsehoode of our daies against the minesterie of man which so ioyneth Gods spirit in all these diuine functions that it cannot without blasphemie and special contempt of God be contemned FVLKE S. Ambr. helpeth your matter neuera whit if you be not content with a mynistery a seruise a power subiect to the wil of God But you wil be halfe gods and more then men you wil haue your persons deified you wil be able to exercise the proper works of God For S. Ambr. reasoneth against the Nouatians which would take vpō them to binde them that were fallen but would not loose them nor receue them againe into the Church vpon their repētance signifying that the power of the one is as wel graunted to the Church as of the other that it was as proper to God to reteine sinnes as it was to forgiue them so that if they renounced the one they must renounce the other also by the same reason for it is the proper right of the holie ghost to doe the one as well as the other And the Nouatian heretikes were found transgressours of Gods commaundement who willeth the repentant to be loosed as well as the obstinate offender to be bound Ambrose therefore sayeth nothing for the deifying of mens persons but for the executing of gods commaundement of mercy as well as of iustice ALLEN But I remember Saint Augustine the Churches great Captaine against her aduersaries of those daies did euer in disputation against the Pelagians and other like enemies of faith make the greatest accoumpt of victorie and their ouerthrow when they were driuen to denie that which euer before had beene not onelie acknowledged of all men for trueth but also had beene vsed as a graunted trueth ground and principle for the notable euidence thereof to the impugning of other falsehoodes For there can be no doubt but that which our holie Fathers did vse without controlling and contradiction euen of their aduersaries to impugne their aduersaries withall there is no doubt but that it hath in it selfe exceeding much light and force of trueth as a thing hauing so litle neede of proofe that it may be made and taken for a probation of other matters that be doubtefull and vncertaine The matter which we haue now in hand is of that sort For the authoritie and power practized of priests in the
holie ghost was God by whose authoritie and proper power they did alwaies since Christs word was spoken remitte the same The which beeing true as it cannot be false that is so agreeable both to scriptures and to all our fathers faith the heresy of our time must needes directly impugne the vertue and power of Gods owne spirit For as the proofe of mans ministerie in this foresaid function induceth the true and euerlasting Godhead of the holy ghost by whome they practize that power so the denial thereof and robberie of priesthoode of this their moste iust claime doth directlie spoile God of his honour and of the euerlasting right that he hath in remission of sinnes So whiles these goodmen seeke to abase man vniustlie they blaspheme God highlie and together with mans ministerie they bring vnto vtter contempt Gods owne authoritie FVLKE Your deifying of popish priests doth altogether weaken the force of that argument which our fathers vsed against the auncient heretikes to prooue the diuinitie of the holie Ghost For it were an easie matter for Eunomius Macedonius or anie other heretike that was against his godhead to replie that by ministerie of God the holie Ghost might as properlie forgiue sinnes as Priestes do by the ministerie of Christ and of the holie ghost yea so farre forth as thereby they are made halfe Gods yea deified and made Gods in deede But you vtter repugnancie when you saie that by Gods authoritie and proper power Priestes do forgiue sinnes Where you make it not proper to God which is common to others with him Therefore you should speake more properlie to saie that God the holy ghost by his owne authoritie and power proper to the deitie doth forgiue sinnes in their ministery men thereto authorized do no more in proper speach and sense but testifie and declare what God doth for which declaration and testification seeing they are the embassadours and messengers of God vnto the world to declare his pleasure of reconciliation or condemnation they are said to forgiue sinnes or to retaine them which they do not properlie but pronounce the sentence of God concerning the remission or retention of mens sinnes And that this was the meaning of the Auncient fathers concerning the authoritie and power of Gods ministers it is moste manifest by this argument whereby they choke the enuier of the holie ghostes diuinitie from which you cutte of all the sinnewes and force it hath to prooue it when you communicate to men that which is proper to God and aduance men aboue the nature of meere men when you deifie their persons by meanes of the giftes of the holie Ghost giuen to them and make them of abilitie to exercise the proper workes of God As for the deniall and robberie that you ascribe I can not tell to what heretikes of this time we detest as much as ye not seeking to abase man beneath the nature and condition of man norseeking to extoll him by robbing God of his glorie and proper effects to magnifie menne to deifie the persoas of men as you do in plaine termes Whereby it is manifest we are as far from blaspheming god or making mans ministerie contemptible which he exerciseth in the name of God as you are from sobrietie thus to iudge if your meaning be of vs or thus to reason if you would defend the argument of the auncient fathers against the auncient heretikes ALLEN But for the readersease and more light of our cause I ioyne thus in argument with them againe vpon the second part of Christes owne wordes and action had in the authorizing of his Apostles Whatsoeuer the holie Ghost maie doe in this case by the proper power of his Godhead that may the Apostles and Priestcs do by seruice and ministerie through the power of the holie Ghost But the holie Ghost properlie and rightlie doth remit sinnes Therefore the Apostles doe rightlie remit sinnes by their ministerie in the said holie Ghost All partes of this conclusion stand vpright and feare no falsehood they be guarded on euerie side by Christes action by wordes of scripture by the Doctors plain warrant and by all reason With all which whosoeuer is not contented but will needes extinguere spiritum extinguish Gods spirit and violentlie take from the Church the greatest comfort of all mans life that in this infirmitie of our flesh standeth in moste hope by his gift in remission of sinnes for which especiall cause the said spirit was mercifullie breathed vpon the Apostles peculiarly before the mare common sending of the same from heauen aboue If all this reason and iust demonstration of trueth will not serue them I will charge them with this graue conclusion of S. Augustine vttered partlie against the Nouatians especallie against the desperate that would not seeke for Gods mercie by the Churches ministerie in the sacrament of penance To be briefe I will speake it in English Whosoeuer he be that beleeueth no mans sinnes to be remitted in Gods Church and therefore despiseth the bountifulnes of God inso mightie a worke if he in that obstinate minde continue til his liues end he is guiltie of sinne against the holie Ghost in which holy ghost Christ remitteth sinnes FVLKE I doe greatlie commend you that you haue such regard of the readers ease and it seemeth you haue good confidence of your cause that you flie not the light of Logicall iudgement by which the trueth shall more plainelie appeere to all sortes of men then by anie discourses at large vnder which many great errors may be often couered vnder sophistical cloudes ambiguity of words which in a briefe syllogisme is soone and easilie espied To answere your argument therefore First I distinguish of your Maior for if you meane by seruice and ministerie the expressing and declaring of the will and pleasure of the holy ghost wherunto they are authorized I acknowledge your Maior proposition to be true whatsoeuer the holie Ghost maie doe in this case by the proper power of his godhead that maie the Apostles and Priestes doe by seruice ministerie through the power of the holie Ghost But if you meane by seruice and ministerie that the proper power of God is communicated to men I denie your Maior as false and absurde For the Apostles and Priests maie not by seruice and ministerie through the power of the holie Ghost forgiue sinnes properlie which the holie ghost by proper power of his godhead may doe for this is a proper power not com municable vnto any creature but a declaration of the will of him that hath such power is the ministeriall authoritie by which men forgiue sinnes Secondlie I answere that your conclusion is deceitfull For your Minor Extreame or Assumption is not perfectlie ioyned with your Maior or Proposition in the conclusion For your Minor is that the holie ghost properly rightlie doth remit sinnes So your conclusion should be therefore the Apostles properlie and rightlie doe remit sinnes by their ministerie
the scriptures of the authoritie of councels auncient fathers traditions of the Apostles and primitiue Church they binde them selues to nothing but to the present Popes authoritie and determi nation in thinges which he may choppe and chaunge at his pleasure against which they admitte neither scripture Councell Fathers nor Church For example brieflie The scripture moste plainlie forbiddeh the worshipping of Images will they giue soueraigne authoritie to the scriptures All the primitiue Church for six hundred yeares after Christ condemned the worshipping of Images euen Pope Gregorie that allowed the vse of them shall the authoritie of the primatiue Church or of Pope Gregorie in this point ouerrule them No I warrant you they will set them al to schoole and learne them a new lesson Theodoretus Bishop of Cyrus and Gelasius Bishop of Rome doe in plaine wordes affirme that the substance of bread and wine doth remaine in the Lordes supper after consecration doth either the antiquitie of these fathers or the determination of the Bishop of Rome which otherwise they affirme neuer to erre in doctrine preuaile with them against their new here sie of transsubstantiation The councells of Constantiople the first and of Chalcedon decreed that the Bishop of Constantinople should haue equall authoritie and dignitie with the Bishop of Rome The councells of Constans and Basill determined that the Councell is aboue the Pope The councels of Constantinople the sixt and Nice the second condemned the Pope for an heretike will the Papists of these daies trow you stand to the determination of these Councells you maie be assured they will not But the traditions of the Apostles they holde fast and binde them-selues vnto yea verilie as long and as much as they list What beareth a greater shew of the Apostles traditions then the Canons of the Apostles which excommunicate a Bishop priest or deacon that putteth away his wiffe vnder pretence of religion which excommunicate anie of the cleargie that is present at the communion doth not communicate except he shewe a cause whie he doth not Which admmitted him that is maimed in his eie or other partes of his bodie being otherwise worthie vnto the office of a Bishop because the maime of the bodie doth not pollute a man but the filthines of the soules These such like traditions of the Apostles how are they regarded of our Traditioners euen as much as they list and that is neuer a whit at this time and yet these men binde them selues to Councells Fathers traditions primitiue Church you see how farre Yea you see that while they raile vpon vs for appealing to onelie scriptures they themselues relie vpon the present Popes authoritie onelie Let all indifferent men therefore iudge whether it be more safe for a Christian man to bind him-selfe to the authoritie of scriptures onelie or to the Popes authoritie onelie and whether claime a priuiledge of ease they that will admitte no testimonie irrefragable but onelie the scripture or they which chattering of many other things in the end conclude vpon the Church onelie which when it commeth to triall is nothing els but the Pope onelie for if all the Church saie it and the Pope denie it it is nothing worth with them and if the Pope affirme it thoughe all the Church denie it it must stand for paiment But seeing the sense and interpretation of scripture is the cheefe matter we haue to speake of let vs consider whether Master Charke be iustlie charged by our answerer to haue abused that scripture by interpretation which is the chiefe ground of his preface and which he saith is a full and plaine rule whereby to discerne and trie the spirites namelie the text of Saint Iohn 1. Iohn 4. Euerie spirite which confesseth Iesus Christ being come in the flesh is of God and euerie spirite which confesseth not Iesus Christ being come in the flesh is not of God and this is that spirit of Antichrist c. This text Master Charke doth so expound as that it conteineth a confession not onelie of the person of Christ but also of his office for which office sake that wonderfull person of God and man Iesus Christ was ordeined and sent into the world to be a Prophet alone to teach a King alone to rule a Priest alone to sanctifie vs and to reconcile vs to his father by the obedience of faith And if any spiritte shall teach that Christ is not our onelie teacher by his Gospell but that we must admitte vnwritten beleefe and traditions from we know not whome to be of like authoritie with the written worde Secondlie if any spirite make not Christ alone our King and head to rule vs by his holie spirite but teach that a mortal and sinfull man must sit in our consciences and for hatred or gaine which is his practise binde or loose at his pleasure lastlie if anie spirite impeach the all-sufficiencie and entire vertue of Christes sacrifice offered vp once for euer and teach that themselues must enforce it from day to day by the continuance of their daylie sacrifice of the Masse offered for the quick and the deade it appeareth manifestlie that such spirits are not of God c. This interpretation of Master Charke saith the answerer conteineth manie absurdities For first the auncient fathers did expound this place as of it selfe it is moste euident against the Iewes which denied Christ to haue taken flesh also against Ebion Cerinthus and other heretikes that denied the Godhead of Christ. Note here by the aduersaries confession that some places of scripture are of them selues moste euident whereof this is one against the Iewes other heretikes that deny the godhead of Christ. And I hope you shall see it shortly as euident against the Papists that denie his offices To this interpretation of the auncient fathers we agree that whosoeuer denieth the person of Christ or any thing proper to his person is of Antichrist But none of the auncient fathers doe affirme that this text is to be vnderstood against such enemies onelie as denie the Godhead or manhoode of Christ. For Augustine and Oecumenius do interpret it against all heretikes and schismatikes which although they confesse this matter in wordes yet denie it in deedes and Oecumenius against all wicked persons which haue not the spirite of Christ mortifying their vngodlie lustes which carie not the mortification of Christ in their bodie c. Augustine also expoundeth the place against all that breake charitie Omnes negant Iesum Christum in carne venisse qui violant charitatem All they denie Iesus Christe to haue come in the flesh which doe breake or violate charitie whie so because not onelie the person that came but the end whie he came must be considered in the interpretation of this place as Saint Augustine rightlie iudgeth or els all heretikes will after a manner in tongue and wordes confesse that Iesus Christ came in the flesh But Quaeramus saith
he quare venerit in carne Christus inueniemus qui eum negant in carne venisse Let vs inquire wherefore Christ came in the flesh and we shall finde who they are which denie him to haue come in the flesh For if you giue heede to their tongues you shall heare manie heretikes confessing that Christ came in the flesh but the trueth conuinceth them wherefore came Christ in the flesh was he not God was it not saide of him In the beginning was the worde and the worde was with God and the worde was God did he not feede the Angells and doth not he him-selfe feede the Angells did he not so come that he departed 〈◊〉 fromthence did he not so ascend that he did not forsake vs Then wherefore came he in the flesh Because the hope of resurrection ought to haue bene shewed vnto vs. He was God and he came in the flesh for God could not die the flesh could therefore he came in the flesh that he might die for vs. And how died he for vs No man hath greater loue then this to giue his life for his friendes therefore loue brought him to the flesh Whosoeuer therefore hath not loue denieth Christ to haue come in the flesh It is manifest now by this discourse of Augustine vppon some particuler causes of Christ comming in the flesh that his cheife and principall offices cannot be excluded in the right interpretation of this text and therefore Master Charke hath rightlie inferred that whoesoeuer denieth the offices of Christ or any parte of them is no lesse confounded by this scripture then they that denie his person or anie parte or essentiall propertie thereof and that by the consent of the auncient fathers exposition without the which also the text is euident of it selfe For the verie names of Iesus and Christ doe comprehende his offices which whoesoeuer denieth although in wordes he confesse his person and names doth make but an Idoll of Iesus Christe whoesoeuer therefore confesseth not Christ to be a Sauiour Prophet King and Priest is not of God but of Antichrist he whosoeuer confesseth not that he is a wholl and onelie Sauiour Prophet King and Priest is of the same spirite of Antichrist that denieth Iesus Christ being come in the flesh or as the vulgare translation hath that dissolueth Iesus For whoesoeuer setteth vp anie other Sauiour Prophet King or Priest in that sense that these offices pertaine vnto Iesus Christ dissolueth Iesus denieth Iesus Christ to haue come in the flesh whoe came to be our onelie Master-teacher according to the manifest texts of scripture which hath taught vs all thinges likewise our onelie spiritual King eternall and high priest whose office both kinglie and priestlie being confirmed to him by an othe passeth not from him vnto anie other in succession but remaineth alwaies the onelie mightie Prince King of Kinges and Lord of Lordes Whoesoeuer therefore derogateth from Christ anie parte of these dignities offices denieth Iesus Christ comming in the flesh and so doe the popish Catholikes or papistes by their doctrine of traditions Popes authoritie sacrifice of the Masse and such like Nay saith the answerer Martine Luther interpreteth this place to be vnderstoode of M. Charke and his fellowes saying That spirit is not of God but of Antichrist which dissolueth Christes flesh in the sacrament It cannot be denied but Martin Luther was in this case to rash and presumptuous in condemning other men for holding this contrarie to that wherein he erred him-selfe But this answerer is too impudent to faigne sayings wordes of his yea and to applie that which he saied further then Luther him selfe doth For first these wordes that are alleadged as Luthers saying are none of his but forged by the answerer Secondlie that which Luther saieth founding to such a matter can not be drawne against M. Charke and his fellowes who maintaine no such absurditie as Luther in that place oppugneth The very wordes of Luther in his booke intituled Defen verb Caenae Accipite c. are these Quare in superioribus dixi hunc spiritum non esse bonum neque per istos fanaticos homines quicquam boni machinari quanquam existimem hos concionatores contra quos haec scribuntur nondum mali quicquam in animo habere Sed bone Deus non sunt sui ipsorum compotes continentes à 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 captiui tenentur Quare eis nimium sidendum non ect Nam spiritus qui Christi carnem dissoluit non est à Deo inquit Ioannes idqque probam spirituum vult esse Hic spiritus verè dissoluit carnem Christi cùm cam inutilem pereuntem prorsus communem carnem affirmat qualis est bouis aut vituli Wherefore I saide before that this spirite is not good neither goeth about any good thing by these fantasticall men the rebellious boures although I suppose these preachers against whome these thinges are now written as yet to haue none euil thinge in their minde But good God they haue no power nor holde of them selues they are blinded and holden captiue by a spirite wherefore they must not be trusted too much For that spirite which dissolueth the flesh of Christ is not of God saith Saint Iohn and that he will haue to be the triall of spirites This spirite in deede dissolueth the flesh of Christ when it affirmeth that it is vnprofitable perishing and altogether common flesh such as is the flesh of an Oxe or a calfe This is Luthers saying now it is certein that M Charke and his fellowes doe neithet thinke nor speake so vnreuerentlie of the flesh of Christ animated with his spirite which they acknowledge to be verie true meate wherewith we are fed vnto eternall life They had some smacke of Nestorianisme therefore against whome Luther vttereth these wordes from which M. Charke and his fellowes God be thanked are free But now commeth our answerer after he hath forged a place of Luther and hammered it out against Master Charke to maruaile that these men can finde so many absurdities vpon one sentence of scripture and first he would aske whether Master Charke thinketh that the Papistes doe exclude Christ when they allowe Prophets to teach vnder him Kinges to raigne vnder him Priests to sanctifie vnder him or no. As though there were no waie for Papists to be guiltie of Antichristianisme except they did exclude Christ altogether whereas it hath bene prooued that whosoeuer doth not acknowledge the wholl and euerie part of his offices is of Antichrist As for Prophets Kinges and Priests to teach reigne and sanctifie vnder Christ is not the matter in question but to teach reigne sanctify beside Christ to claime like authotitie in teaching gouerning sanctifying with him as to be fellow Prophets fellow Kings fellow priestes with him to teach that Christ taught not to make articles of faith to dispense against Gods commaundements to make lawes to binde the
their aduetsaries it is well knowne that Master Charke and the ministers of the Church are none such neither haue they anie such authoritie It remaineth then that he accounteth the Prince her councell magistrates and ministers of Iustice his aduersaries who indeede haue good cause so to be not onelie in respect of their heresyes but also in regard of their manifolde and almoste infinite practises of treason against the Prince and realme for which some of them haue suffered moste iustlie and not for offering of disputation as this traiterous heretike euerie where moste slaunderouslie doth avowe But nowe for their partes he saith they offere the best surest and easiest meanes that can be deuised or that haue bene vsed in Gods Churches for triall and they are manie in number The first is the bookes of Scripture receiued vpon the credit of the auncient Church of which we are content saith he to accept for canonicall and allowe all those and none other which antiquitie in Christendome hath agreed vpon But this is false for to omit that they receiue for canonicall such as the Church of God before Christ neuer receiued they receiue also such as the greatest and best antiquitie in Christendome receiued not as the Church in Origens time witnesse Eusebius more then the Church of Rome receiued in Saint Ieromes witnesse Ierome himselfe prologo Galeato and Ruffinus in Expossymb more then the Councell of Laodicea did receiue for canonicall as is manifest by the 59. canon The second way of trial is the expresse plaine words of Scripture wherein they must needs be farre superior for what one expresse plaine text haue they saith he in anie one point or article against vs which we doe not acknowledge liberallie as they doe and as the wordes doe lie yes we haue manie but a fewe shal serue for example God saith Exod. 20. Thou shalt not make to thy selse anie grauen image c. thou shalt not fall down to thē nor worship them Againe Matt. 4. Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God and him onelie shalt thou serue Which are moste plaine expresse and manifest against worshipping of Images and other creatures in anie vse of Religion Christ saith drinke ye all of this they be expresse and manifest wordes against the popish sacriledge of the cuppe The 14. to the Corinthians the first Epistle is expresse and plaine against publike praiers homilies lessons in a straunge vnknowne tongue 1. Tim. 4. in expresse and plaine wordes the spirite pronunceth the forbidding of marriage and meates to be the doctrine of deuilles And Heb. 13. Mariage is honourable in all men And 1. Tim. 3. Tit. 1. a Bishop Elder or Deacon must be the husband of one wife beside a great number more But the papists saith our answerer haue infinit texts against vs which we cannot admit without glosses and fond interpretations of our owne A bolde speach as alwaies he vseth but it shall alwaies be founde that if we doe in anie text departe from the grammaticall sense there is necessarie cause why as if it be a figuratiue spcach which is tried either by circumstances of the same place or by other texts of scriptures for the most parte hath the iudgement of the most auncient writers agreing with our interpretation But the most of these examples he bringeth haue nothing in shewe that the expresle wordes of scripture are with them or against vs but by their fonde false vnreasonable collections and such as they can neuer conclude in lawful true syllogismes as for example We haue it saith he for the supremacie expresselie saide to Peter that signifieth arocke vpon this rock will I builde my Church We answere that we might followe the interpretation of the most auncient and approoued fathers that the rocke here spoken of is Christ whom Peter confessed but graunting them that they could neuer euict we confesse that the Church is builded vpon the foundation of Peter the Apostle but not vpon him alone or more principallie then vpon all the Apostles who are all rockes or stones vpon whose foundation as also vpon the foundation of the Prophets the Church of Christ is builded Neither is it possible to prooue the supremacie of the Pope out of those wordes of scripture or anie other But they haue further expresselie touching the Apostles he that is great among you let him be as the younger Luk. 22. We haue no where there is none greater then other among you Neither do we holde that none ought to be greater then other among vs but that the greatest among the ministers ought to be seruant of all the rest and that none ought to exercise Dominion ouer the Lordes inheritaunce yet the primacie of order we graunt euen among the Apostles according to which Iames was president of the Councell at Ierusalem Peter the cheife Aposlle of the circumcision Paull of the gentiles all which will not serue one whit to maintaine the popish tiranny For Paul was nothing inferiour to the highest Apostles But for the reall presence they haue expreslie This is my bodie we haue no where this is the signe of my bodie Neither doe we denie the sacrament to be the bodie of Christ neither doe we affirme that it is a bare signe But that this is a figuratiue speach we haue expreslie This cuppe is the newe Testament in my blood and as expreslie the Apostle speaking of the same sacrament the rocke was Christ which prooueth that it must be vnderstoode in a sigue and after a spirituall manner and so doe al the olde Doctors interpretit as hath beene often shewed We haue expreslie saith he The bread that I will giue you is my flesh Iohn 6. they haue nowhere It is but the signe of my flesh And we confesse as much for we neuer saide that the signe of Christs flesh was crucified for vs but his verie naturall bodie which he promiseth in that text to giue for the life of the world which by faith and the spirit of God is made the spirituall foode of all the elect children of God and without eating of which none can be saued Ioh. 6. 53. But they haue expresly A man is iustified by works and not by faith onelie Iames. 2. we haue no where a man is iustified by faith alone no nor that he is iustified by faith without workes talking of workes that followe faith First we confesse the text that a man is iustified by workes As Abraham was when he offered his sonne and as Rahab was when she receiued the spies that is a man is declared to be iust in the sight of men For Abraham was iustified before God by faith before he offered his sonne whome God did not trie to enforme himselfe but to declare vnto men by the fruites of obedience that Abraham was a iust man euen so by faith the harlot Rahab perished not with the vnbeleeuers when the receiued the spies in peace but by receiuing
some fault the other for sawe the seedes of superstition and Idolatrie then in sowing better then he yet are not Saint Paul Barnabas Ierome hereby noted for heretikes But for railing saie you and foule scurrilitie such as Protestants vse ordinarilie against vs and among them selues when they dissent I dare auow to be proper to them and their ancetora onelie All this while you tell vs not what you call railing and foule scurrilitie except you meane that the verie same odious termes which are lawfull or tollerable in you be railing and foule scurrilitie in vs onelie because you accompt vs heretikes and then we must accompt you to be trifling sophisters which to conuince vs of railing can bring none other arguments but that which is the wholl matter in contro uersie betweene vs namelie whether we or you be the heretikes and yet you dare auow railing foule scurrility such as Protestantes vse against you not onelie to agree to vs but also to be proper to vs our ancetors by whom you vn derstand none but heretiks Othe modesty of Papistes among whome no one person can be found that euer vsed railing or scurrilitie if this be true that you dare auow of the propertie of heretikes and of all them whome you take for such But it is good to examine your reason by which you would prooue railing to be proper vnto gospellers as you terme them and thereby easilie take a scantling of the diuersitie of their spirits from Popish Catholikes First the mouth speaketh according to the aboundance of the heart which is trew in such sense as it is spoken of by our Sauiour Christ for wickednesse is first bred in the heart before it breake forth of the mouth but it followeth not thereof that you conclude when you saie I meane a man maie be knowne by his speach for then the wickednes of euerie hypocrite might appeare by his talke which is vntrue But Saint Peter said vnto Simon Magus vpon his onelie speech saie you I see thee to be in the verie gall of bitternes c. yet was it no railing speech which Simon Magus vttered nor dissembled speech for he plainlie professed that he was desirous to buie the gift of the holie ghost and last of al it was not onelie speach for the text saith he offered mony for his march andise for otherwise his onelie words as they are reported by Saint Luke were not sufficient to discouer so great wickednes of his heart giue vnto me also this power that vpon whomsoeuer I laie my handes he maie receiue the holie ghost it might haue bene thought vpon this onelie speech that Simon latelie baptized was desirous to haue beene a Minister of the dispensation of the holie ghost to the benefit of gods Church by the graunt of the Apostles if he had not profered monie also by which his couetousnes and other wicked blasphemous opinions of the holie ghost were plainlie discouered You shew your selfe therefore to be a man mightie in the scriptures that can bring no better example or proofe that one by his onelie speech sometime maie be sufficientlie conuicted of the wickednes of his hart then this of Peter and Simon Magus where onelie speech was not vsed and the speech that was vsed was not of it selfe able to discouer the heart of him that spake In matters of greater controuersie betwixt vs perhaps you are better exercised or els we are like to finde feeble arguments on your behalfe To proceede you saie the scripture is plaine in this point what point that a man maie be knowne alwaies by his speech for that he maie sometime thereby be abundantlie conuinced we doubt not well what saith the scripture he that hath not the spirit of Christ appertaineth not to Christ. This is most true of the spirit of adoption which also sheweth it selfe in the fruites of mortification and renouation But hereof we maie not conclude thatall thinges in them that haue the spirit of Christ. are perfect so that they neuer offended no not in wordes or that in whomesoeuer appeereth anie thing which proceedeth not from the spirite of Christ as in the best there do manie things they are therefore to be iudged void of the spirit of Christ. And therefore we maie see what sound diuinitie you teach and how well you vnderstand the scriptures vpon which you conclude as followeth Now then if we consider the quiet calme and sober spirit of Christ and of all godlie Christians from the beginning and the furious reprochfull and vnclean spirit of Sathan and all heretikes from time to time and do compare them with the writings of both partes at this daie we maie easilie take ascantling of the diuersitie of their spirites Verilie it shall be found as hard a matter as it was before you made this demonstration for notwithstanding we acknowledge the quiet calme and sober spirit of Christ and Christians yet you confesse and the scripture is plentifull to prooue that Christ and his Apostles against the wicked and obstinate enemies of the trueth vsed most hott vehement and sharpe speeches and they which haue trueth on their side maie vse the like in like causes by their examples So that by vehemencie of speech the cause can not so easilie be discerned neither is your scantling right to be taken thereby Those kinde of speaches for the moste parte are to be accompted furious reprochfull and vncleane which are vttered of malice against the trueth when the same being spoken of zeale against falsehood maie wel stand with the quiet calme and sober spirit of Christ. Yet are there also certaine vncleane reprochfull and scurrilous speaches which serue not so much to describe falsehood and sinne to the detestation thereof as they seeme of them-selues to bewraie the hatred and intemperate heate of them that vse them against the persons of other and these in no case are commendable but to be reprooued whether they be found in Papistes or Protestantes as neither of both perhapsmaie be cleerelie excused of this falt By this it may be gathered what railing is properlie not euery hot worde as you saie but such as are vsed in an euill cause against trueth iustice of malice commonlie sometime of immoderate zeale such as be offensiue in what cause soeuer or of what zeale soeuer they be vsed and such railing I dare auouch you shall not be able to prooue that it is proper to Protestantes no nor to heretikes For there be heretikes which not with railinges and reprochfull speeches make diuisions in the Church beside the Doctrine of Christ but with faire smooth flatering talke deceiue the harts of the simple therfore railing is not a proper and perpetuall note of heretikes Now as concerning your examples first you begin with Master Charke asking what more venemous wordes can be imagined then these of scorpions poysoned spiders and the like vsed by Master Charke against reuerend men Here except you can first
worde can Master Chark now peepe against all this O you papists that with sinceritie of Religion haue not caste of all humane honestie doe you not blush at the impudent ignorance of this your defender And yet he is not ashamed to gather Master Charks absurd positions not one according to his meaning and but one onelie agreeable to his wordes First that sinne is no action where he holdeth that all sinne as the sinne of omission is no action Secondlie that no euill men doe sinne but the euill in men which he saith not but that man as he is the creature of God is not against the lawe but the euill in man Thirdlie that sinne is not voluntarie which he saieth not generally but of some sin speakeing properlie Forthlie that sinne is no humane or reasonable action which he saieth rather to be a beastlie and vnreasonable action of a man endued with reason Fiftlie that it requireth neither will nor knowledge in the doer where he saith that the transgression of Gods law is sin in some case and sort which is without the will and knowledge of the doer Last of all that fooles and madde men may as properlie commit sinne as others but this he saith not at al but that the infirmites of follie and madnes shal not excuse sin and that if a madde man or a foole kil a man in the Censurcrs iudgement it is properly no sinne Whereof you may inferr that it is sinne properlie but not that it is as properlie sinne as in others But if madde men and fooles coulde not commit sinne properlie whie are they punished for sinne To conclude where you saie that Master Charke reiecteth Saint Augustine about the definition of sinne it is false For these are his wordes Howsoeuer you alledge Austen to approoue your definition it is no waie so large as sinne and iherefore a most vnlearned definition These words of his declare that he reiecteth not Augustine in this matter but your false and fraudulent allegation of him which is manifestly shewed before by Augustines sound iudgement in his retractions The eight section Of sinne MAster Chark hauing said out of the definition of Saint Iohn which also Saint Ambrose doth vse as I haue shewed before that all transgression of the lawe is sinne was charged by the Censurer with transposition because the Apostles wordes lie thus in the text Sinne is transgression of the law Master Charke defendeth him-selfe alledging that these wordes sinne and the transgression of the law are as the definition and the thing defined which are mutuallie verified the one of the other The defender bringeth nothing to prooue that this is no definition but that which he hath saide in the section before which is ouerthrowne Onelie he quarrelleth that Master Charke said the Gospell is as generall as the power of God to saluation whereas Christ also is called the power of God to saluation As though the Gospell did not include Christ. For when it is said the Gospell is the power of God to saluation you must vnderstand the generall matter namelie the doctrine or the preaching That transposition of wordes is sometimes lawfull M. Charke sheweth by an example God is a spirite where the wordes lie in the text a spirite is God The defender wrangleth that it is not alwaies lawfull which shall be graunted vnto him without controuersie That in this question it is not lawful he hath nothing to prooue but a beggerlie demaund of that in question that transgression of Gods lawe is larger then sinne Where Master Chark alledgeth out of 1. Iohn 5. 17. that euerie iniquitie is sin he maketh no small adoe because the greeke word in that text is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the other 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which if they be not all one in sense let him enter an action against the vulgar interpreter which in both places translateth iniquitas Yea let him quarrell with Saint Augustine which vpon the place in question writeth thus Nemo enim dicat aliud est peccatum atque aliud iniquitas nemo dicat ego peccator homo sum sed iniquus non sum omnis qui facit peccatum iniquitatem facit Peccatum iniquitas est quid ergo faciemus de peccatis nostris iniquitatibus Let no man saie sin is one thing iniquitie is an other thing let no man say I am a sinful man but I am not vniust euery one that committeth sin doth commit iniquity for sin is iniquity what then shall we do with our sinnes and iniquities c You see here that S. Augustine accounteth sin iniquitie or vniustice to be all one So doth he in 1. Iohn Tr. 5. And where the Apostle vseth the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which is vnrighteuosnes what say you meaneth he generall iniustice or speciall If he meane generall as you must needes say for shame then it is as large as sinne and it is manifest that the Apostle vseth the worde Iustice as contrarie to sinne therefore iustice must needes be the same that sinne If you can make a diuersitie between general iniquity general iniustice you are wiser then the vulgar interpreter speciallie if he speake in this latter place of great sinnes onelie as you say whereas iniquitie in the former place may signifie such small transgression as is no sinne at all Verelie Oecumenius is against you and saith Simpliciter tanquam à genere peccati facit 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 omnis iniquitas peccatum est hoc est siue sit ad mortem siue non He maketh a plaine diuision of sinne as it were from the generall and saith all inquitie is sinne that is whether it be vnto death or not And vpon 1. 〈◊〉 3. he saith Sciendum autem quòd 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. We must know that sin is a falling from that which is good 〈◊〉 or 〈◊〉 is an offence against the law and both of them hath this beginning namelie sinne the 〈◊〉 from that which is good iniquitie to doe against the law that 〈◊〉 And they agree the one with the other and are about the same thing For he which sinneth erreth from the marke which is according to nature and in nature is selfe For the scope or marke 〈◊〉 nature is to liue according to reason farre from vnreasonablenes Likewise he that doth 〈◊〉 offendeth about the lawe giuen in nature beeing affected intemperatelie Rectè ergo discipulus domini 〈◊〉 inidem 〈◊〉 Therefore the disciple of our Lorde hath rightlie vsed the one for the other Here iniquitie is as large as sinne Against this what haue you to saie Aristotell in praedicam qual For which I send you to Aristotell Eth. lib. 5. c. 1. But 〈◊〉 euery iniquitie is not sinne you haue Saint Augustine lib. 2. cont Iulian cap. 5. When you can set downe his wordes you shall receiue an answere in the meane time as you saie Master Charke reserued a sure carde for the ende I may
scriptum est post concupiscentias tuas non eas sed non perficit quia non implet quod scriptum est Non concupisces He doth much good which doth that which is written goe not after thy lustes but he maketh not his good perfect because he fulfilleth not that which is written Thou shalt not lust These wordes and the wholl Chapter prooueth that Saint Augustine vnderstandeth the tenth commaundement of concupiscence whereunto no consent is added Againe lib. de spir lit cap. vltimo he saith that this commaundement Thou shalt not lust perteineth to the life to come because no man can fulfill it in this life but the other Goe not after thy lustes perteineth to this life because men may restreine by Gods grace consent and delectation in lust Your third quotation is lib. 19. Cont. Faustum cap. 7 where Saint Augustine saith no more for you then in the rest sauing that he saith That for as much as it is hard for vs to fullfill in euerie respect that which is written in the law thou shalt not lust Christ beeing made a prieste by the sacrifice of his flesh obteineth pardon for vs euen so fulfilling the law that by his perfection might be recouered that which by our infirmitie we could not In which saying except you will cauill vpon the terme of difficultie which in other places he maketh a flat impossibilitie there is no shadow for your assertion In your fourth quotation Cont. 2. ep Petil. lib. 3. cap. 7. or in steede of Petil. as I gesse you would saie Pelagianorum is nothing sounding to the matter but rather the contrarie that perfection cannot be in this life because there cannot be perfect iustice or fulfilling of the law Where fore I can but wonder at your impudencie in these quotations And yet as though you had found a great 〈◊〉 you saie it is most worthie of laughter which Master Charke for filling vp of a page discourseth of S. Pauls estate when he saith Paul compareth his estate before his knowledge of the tenth commaundement with his state afterward c. Verelie the Greeke prouerbe hath place in you 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. A foole lauheth when there is nothing worthie of laughter You aske how he could be ignorant of that commaundement considering his education yet be able to 〈◊〉 other sinnes by the light of naturall reason But Master Charke saith he knew other sinnes by the law and light of nature He knew also by his bringing vp that it was written in the law thou shalt not lust but he vnderstood it not otherwise then the Pharises did which thought they were able to keepe the law But after he learned what originall sinne and the lust thereof proceeding was he sound himselfe condéned by the tenth commaundement which he could not doe by the other nine from which it is perfectlie distinct nor by the light of reason for the philosophers could neuer atteine to vnderstand that sinne But concupiscence with consent and delectation they could perceiue to be vitious and sinfull So that your sardonicall laughter may be staide and turned to weeping if 〈◊〉 had grace to know that commaundement as Saint Paul had whereof it appeareth you are as ignorant as euerhe was Concerning the similitude of the latine tongue whereof the tongue is onelie an instrumentall cause as it answereth not the effect of originall sinne so being a contention of termes I will not stand vpon it Againe I confesse it is not necessarie that euerie effect of originall sinne should be sinne in the regenerate as hunger sicknes c. but originall sinne is not so the efficient of these as of actuall sinnes for the iustice of God is the good proper and principall next efficient of those punishments sinne is the cause moouing the iustice of God to punish but original sin is the immediat euil material cause of actual sin That the guilt of original sin is taken-away from theregenerate in and by baptisme we do not denie yet remaineth the sin after baptisme though it be not impured as sinne vnto condemnation in the children of God That Christ is called sinne because i. e is a sacrifice to take awaie sinne maie prooue as you saie that something is figuratiuelie called sinne which properlie is no sinne But that concupiscence should as vnproperlie be called sinne you can not prooue because it is a matter and increaser of sinne Your false quotation Rom. 8. where Christ is called sinne you would iustifie by the 3. verse where there is no such matter but that God sent Christ in the similitude of sinfull flesh and of sinne condemned sinne in the flesh But if the text will not serue you send vs to the commentaries which can not alter the text howsoeuer some do compare this place with that of 2. Cor. 5. 21. and other some do take it otherwise Touching the auncient Fathers 〈◊〉 in the Censure to testifie that concupiscence is not sin in the regenerat if consent be not yealed c. you saie he hath passed ouer Cyprian and Pacacius without anie word vnto him The cause is for that they saie nothing to him in the matter controuersed beteweene him and you For Cyprian in both the places sheweth that baptisme by the spirit of God purgeth a man and washeth him cleane from all spots of sinne Which Master Charke confesseth as concerning the guilt because concupiscence though it remaine is not imputed for sinne in the regenerated But the question is what concupiscence of it selfe deserueth 〈◊〉 in the regenerated if it were imputed by Gods iustice as it is forgiuen by his grace Albeit he be not bound to take all that Cyprian writeth for Gospel especiallie in that Sermon de ablutione pedum if it be Cypriant As for Pacianus he saith not all so much If you haue anie wordes in the Fathers that maie enforce your meaning set them downe plainlie and mocke vs no longer with dumme questiones Ambrose and Clemens Alexandrinus as Master Charke telleth you haue not your wordes nor sense for whatsoeuer they saie of the purenes of them that are regenerated we acknowledge with them in respecte of the remission of their sinnes not that the regenerated are voide of al sinne or naturall corruption more then they be voide of infirmitie and mortalitie Where Clemens saith that concupiseence alone is adultrie you labour in vaine to adde consent for the worde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 alone doth exclude what soeuer you can adde vnto it Where you cauill that he exhorteth the Gentiles to resist these motions of concupiscence and would prooue thereby that they are not the first motions which are vnauoidable it is a tale for he exhorteth the Gentiles to Christianitie where they should finde remission of all sinnes and all honnstie oflife Gregorie Nazianzen hath an oration or homilie intituled of holie baptisme but not de S. Iana as your Censure had in the first edition and in that oration he prooueth not your
of his godhead which is proper vnto it Andwhatsoeuer in holie scripture is read to be exercised of him through the might of Gods spirit by the vertue of his annointing by the finger of God by the sending of the Father by power receiued from aboue by Priesthood praiers or sacrifice by the Sonne of man of the head of the Church or iudge of the liuing and dead whatsoeuer is in this sort said to be done it is not otherwise lightlie meant but in respect of Christs humanitie by which and in which he worketh the same not as by the proper and naturall power or force thereof but as by iurisdiction receiued of the blessed Trinitie and imploied vpon the sonne of man for the procuring of saluation to his people whereof he is become in our very nature the head FVLKE This generall rule is so abridged with the exception lightlie that it is hard to bring anie instance against it but Allen would haue his starting hole in it Neuerthelesse seeing he concludeth the examples before remembred to be included within this rule we maie be bolde to charge him with a spice of Nestorianisme seeing those workes which are certaine to haue beene the workes of the Mediator God and man he ascribeth to the onelie humanitie by iurisdiction receiued from the blessed Trinitie whereby it should followe that the worke of Christe in this respect should not differ from the workes of Moses Elias Dauid or anie of the Prophets whoe receiued iurisdiction from the blessed Trinitie whereby they performed manie workes which the same blessed Trinitie had appointed for the procuring of saluation vnto his people ALLEN Therefore no Christian man maie doubt but as our Sauiour by the omnipotent power of his Godhead might and did forgiue sinnes to the penitent so likewise that as he was Priest the sonne of man he might by the right of his office vnction and ministerie in the vertue of the holie Ghost remitte sinnes also And for that cause principallie in the Prophet Esay it is said Spiritus Dominisuper me eò quòd vnxerit me ad annunciandum mansuetis misit me vt mederer contritis corde praedicarem captiuis indulgentiam clausis apertionem The Spirit of the Lord vopn me because he hath annointed me and sent me to signifie vnto the meeke that I should heal the contrite in heart to preach pardon to the prisoners and freedome to the closed The which place of the Prophet our Sauiour applied vnto him selfe in the Church of Nazareth and is to be vnderstanded onelie of preaching and pardoning by the holie vnction of the Spirit of God and his Fathers calling And therefore it must needes according to Saint Augustines iudgement concerne the shape of his seruice and manhood taken on him in which he preached so that yet it pleased him to affirme that his Doctrine was not his owne but his Fathers that sent him and healed the contrite in heart which is nothing els but to forgiue sinnes to the penitent after such a sort that it might well appeare to be receiued and practised by the vnction of the Spirit of God and sending of his Father whereby the Sonne of man might doe that as Gods minister in his manhood in earth which both he and his eternall Father with the holie Spirit of them both doe worke by their owne one and equall authoritie in heauen euerlastinglie FVLKE And seeing he willeth vs to note the ground of the cause which is that Christ as he was Priest and the sonne of man might remit sinnes by a ministeriereceiued by vnction of the holie Ghost it is not lightlie to be passed ouer That the sonne of man had power vpon earth to forgiue sinnes he him-selfe affirmeth Mat. 9. 6. but this was the power of his godhead which was not restreined nor abased by the shape of a seruant in which he appeered on earth That he was authorized by vnction of the holie Ghost to preach remission of sinnes vnto the penitent it pertaneth indeede vnto him in respect of his manhood although Saint Augustine in the place by Allen quoted saieth not so but citeth the place of Esaie to prooue that Christ in respct of his humanity was inferior to the holy Ghost but that this is all the power that Christ had vpon earth to remit sinnes it is not prooued by anie argument For this ministerie of reconciliation to remit sinnes by preaching of the Gospell doth remaine still with the Church the other that was proper to his Deitie no mortall man without Sacriledge can arrogate or vsurpe ALLEN And though God hath neuer 〈◊〉 mans fall vsed the meanes and seruice of man to his restore againe and to the reliefe of his lackes and therefore hath giuen authority by his holie spirite and vnction to diuerse of the olde law to offer sacrifice praier and procure remission to the people of all their offences and no lesse 〈◊〉 occasion serued and the matter required to correct their misdeedes by iudgement and iurisdiction giuen vnto them for which soueraigne calling they were called the annointed of God an externall ceremonie of anoyting being solemnelie annexed thereunto yet our Lord an Master whether you consider his high Priesthoode by which in moste ample manner through commission receiued he maie procure our pardone or his calling to be head of the Church by which he ruleth and keepeth all the bodie in due subiection and order or his ministerie of preaching whereby farre aboue all the Prophets and preachers of the olde law he openeth to his flock the Church the secret mysteries of Gods trueth Christ I saie in all these respectes being man is yet much more abundantlie blessed and anointed without comparison aboue all his fellowes and copartners as the holy Prophet Dauid doth testifie Vpon whose wordes touching that matter Saint Hilarie writeth thus Vnxit te Deus Deus tuus oleo exultationis prae participibus tuis non secundùm sacramentum aliud quà m secundùm dispensationem assumpti corporis Vnctio enim illa non beatae illi incorrupt in natura dei man enti natiuitati profecit sed sanctificationi hominis assumpti Nam in Actis ait Petrus vnxit illum Deus in spiritu sancto virtute Thus he meaneth in English God etien thy God hath anointed thee with the oile of ioy farre aboue thy copartners not in anie other meaning but according to the dispensation of a bodie receaued For that vnction could not be beneficiall to the holie vnspotted and euerlasting natiuitie in the nature of his Godhead but onelie it was agreeable to the mysterie of his manhood and flesh assumpted in his temporal natiuitie whereof Saint Peter speaketh in the Actes that God hath annointed him with the holie ghost and with power The holie Father also Saint Cyrill agreeth hereunto confessing that all this honour power and authoritie which the Prophets haue signified so long before by the annointing of the sonne of God came vnto Christ in consideration
30. entreating vpon this place Illud verò non praetermittendum quòd quando peccata paralytici dimisit non apertè potestatem suam manifesiauit Non enim dixit dimitto tibi peccata tua sed dimittuntur tibi peccata tua inimicis autem vrgentibus manifestius suam potestatem oftendit Ait enim vt sciatis quia potestatem habet filius bominis in terra peccata di mittere perpendisne quam longè abest vt nolit aequalis patri putari non enim dixit potestatem habere à deo filium hominis aut quia dedit sibi Deus potestatem sed potestatem habet filius hominis nec ad gloriam dico ait sed vt vobis persuadeam quia non blasphemo cùm meip sum patri aequalem faciam But this thing is not to be passed by that when he forgaue the sins of the palsy man he did not openlie manifest his power for he did not saie I forgiue thee thy sinnes but thy sinnes are forgiuenthes But when his enimies vrged him hee showeth his power more manifestlie for he saith that you maie knowe that the sonne of man hath power on earth to forgiue sinnes Doest thou not marke howe farre of it is that he would not bee thought equall to his father for he saide not that the sonne of man hath power from God or that God hath giuen him power but the sonne of man hath power neither saith he doe I speake it for to glorie in but that I might perswade you that I doe not blaspheme when I make my selfe equall with my father The same interpretatiō hath Euthymius vpon the place S. Ambrose also acknowledgeth the diuinitie of Christ to be prooued by forgiuenes of sinnes in Luc. 5. Cognosce interioris hominis sanitatem cui peccata donantur quae cùm Iudoaei asserunt a solo Deo posse donari deum vtique confitentur suoque iudicio perfidiam suam produnt vt opus astruant personam negent c. Acknowledge the healing of the innar man to whome his sinnes are forgiuen which when the Iewes doe affirme that they can be forgiuen by God alone they do confesse verely that he is god by their owne argument bewray their falshoode that they allowe his worke and denie his person Therefore euen of them the sonne of god receiueth testimonie of his worke requireth not the suffrage of their voice For falshoode can confesse but it cannot beleeue Therefore there wanteth no testimonie to his diuinitie but faith is wanting to their saluation for both it is more straunge for credit which they confesse vnwilling and also more pernitious to their fauls that they denie which are conuinced by their owne assertions Great therefore is the madnes of the vnfaithfull people that when they haue confessed that it pertaineth to God onelie to forgiue sinnes they will not giue credit to God when he doth forgiue sinnes And a litle after where he also acknowledgeth the power of remitting sinnes which is graunted to men he doth neuerthelesse affirme that God onelie doth forgiue sinnes Quamuis igitur magnum sit hominibus peccata dimittere quis enim potest peccata dimittere nisi solus Deus quiper eos quoque dimittit quibus dimittendi tribuit potestatein tamen multò diuinius est resurrecti onem donare corporibus For although it be a great thing to forgiue sinnes to men for who can forgiue sinnes but god alone whoe also forgiueth by them to whome he hath giuen power of for giuing yet it is a much more diuine worke to giue resurrection to mens bodies This 〈◊〉 of S. Ambrose sheweth not onelie that Christ by his diuine power as god forgaue sinnes in this place but that God onelie doth properlie 〈◊〉 when he vseth the ministery of men so that not 〈◊〉 S. Hilarie but euen the consent of al the auncient writers is a gainst your new imagination ALLEN But to returne 〈◊〉 to our 〈◊〉 when Christ had declared that the Sonne of man had in earth power to remit sinnes he then by this farther proofe and argument ouerturneth the wholl cause of their 〈◊〉 and inward 〈◊〉 against him for the same whether is it more easie to saie thy sinnes be forgiuen thee or to saie to the incurable person take vp thy bed and walke I due the one in all your sightes and he is cured at my worde why then mistrust you the other It was no lesse the propertie of God alone to he all him sodainlie of his corporall infirmitie that had beene desperatclie sicke so long then to forgiue sinnes but the one power though by 〈◊〉 it was proper to him selfe yet he gaue it in the sight of you all to the sonne of man in earth why then mistrust you but he might well giue the other This reason proceeding from the wisedome of Gods owne sonne shall helpe our faith much touching this article and shall not a litle further the dignitie of the 〈◊〉 whoe also after their masters example may prooue the force of their authoritie vppon mennes soules which cannot be open to our bodelie eyes by the apparant power that their wordes shal be seene openlie to worke on mens bodies especiallie if it be well weighed that Christ wrought miracles also not onelie by the excellent dominion and force of his godhead but also as Saint Augustine prooueth by the spirts of God in respect of his manhoode In quo spiritu sanflo saith he operatus est virtuies dicens Si ego in spiritu dei eiicto daemonia certè superuenit in vosregnum Dei In the pow er of which holie ghost Christ wrought miracles according to his owne saying in these words if I expel out deuils by the spirit of god then surelie the kingdome of God wil come on you The Iews therefore seing themselues thus ouercome in their cogitatiòns waxed affraied and glorified God who gaue such power to men For though no man euer had equall authoritie or like power to Christ who was both God and man yet of this plentifull spirit and vnction manie of his brethren haue through his ordinance recciued part as shortlie now is shall be prooued In the meane time arme thy selfe against 〈◊〉 with this approoued and certaine trueth that not onelie God by his passing prerogatiue maie forgiue sinnes but that he hath so soueraignclie 〈◊〉 Christ our Priest and head that as he is man and occupieth the said functions in earth he maie remit by the vertue of the holie Ghost our offences also 〈◊〉 That which before but doubtinglie and vnder correction of better learned men you propounded to the end that like a subull serpent you might writhe in your head now as a conquerer of the wholl cause you thrust in your wholl bodie and as though you had gained your purpose you affirme steadfastlie that although it was no lesse the propertie of God alone to heale the man sodainelie of his corporall infirmitie then to forgiue sinnes yet as he gaue the one power to
life the same should stand in force before God FVLKE Our sauiour Christ in this place doth first of all authorize his Apostles to execute the office of publike preaching of the Gospell in all the world vnto the which he had before chosen appointed them Then doth he furnish them with giftes of the holie Ghost meete for so high and painfull a calling last of all he ratifieth the effect of their ministerie to be accomplished in the remission of the sinnes of all them that beleeue their preaching and in the retaining of their sinnes that do not obey the voice of the Gospell to beleeue it For the power of remitting sinnes must not be separated from the office of teaching whereunto it is annexed by our sauiour Christ who doth not giue his Apostles authoritie to remit sinnes so that he would transferre into them anie thing that is proper vnto him-selfe For it is proper to him to remit sinnes which honour so farre forth as it pertaineth to his onelie person he doth not resigne to his Apostles but commaundeth them in his name to testifie the forgiuenes of sinnes that he might reconcile men to God by their ministerie For I haue shewed before in the words of S. Hilarie that to speake properlie God onelie by men remitteth sinnes not following the sentence of man but man following the iudgement of God which is to pardon all penitent sinners and to retaine the sinnes of vnbeleeuers vnto eternall condemnation Therefore it is much more then the place doth afforde that you affirme the iudgement and rule of our soules with al authoritie in correcting our sinnes in most expresse and effectuall tearmes and in moste ample manner is giuen to the Apostles and their successors in this place For Christ in this place doth constitute Apostles and not Iudges messengers and declarers of his good pleasure and will vnto men not rulers of mens soules he giueth them power to remit or retaine sinnes in his name to the inestimable comfort of all penitent sinners and to the terrour and in crease of damnation of all vnbeleeuers he giueth them not al authoritie and that in moste ample manner in correcting our sinnes neither are there in the place anie expresse or effectual tearmes our of which such omnipotent authoritie can be concluded as afterward when we come to your syllogisme we shall platnlie declare Againe there is no mention in the text of anie iurisdiction communicated vnto them but of the office of teaching whereunto Christ was sent for a time which he committeth to his Apostles and their successours For these wordes of our sauiour As my father hrth sent me I also do send you can not be enlarged generallie to all such purposes as God sent Christ but must be vnderstood according to the matter he speaketh of that is of the office of Preaching teaching which Christ at that time did cease to execute in his humanitie remaining yet still the onelie doctor and teacher of his Church because he is author of the doctrine that is taught and by his holie spirit teacheth continually in giuing effect to the labours of his Apostles Euangelists Prophets Pastours teach ers which he hath giuen vnto his Church for the external ministerie of instructing the same in al truth necessarie to the eternall saluation of his elect He substituteth therfore his Apostles in that necessarie office of preaching the Gospell he enableth them by his spirit which he testifieth vntothem by an holy signe to proceed from him He maketh an assured promis that they should not labour in vaine but that in pardoning retaining sinnes according to the doctrine of his Gospel whatsoeuer they did should stand in force before God ALLEN What dignitie could euer be giuen more in what tearmes more plain by what order more honourable for surelie if either Christ could remit sinnes as we haue at large prooued that he could by commission and sending of his father or if the holie spirit of God maie remit sinnes or if Christes word will procure man anie power to remit sinnes then vndoubtedlie maie the Apostles remit sinnes For they haue the expresse warrant of them all Much said Paul when he affirmed in the Apostles name and person of all Priestes Quòd 〈◊〉 erat in Christo mundum reconcilians sibi posuit in nobis verbum reconciliationis Pro Christo ergo legatione fungimur That God was in Christ reconciling the world to him selfe and hath put in vs the word of reconcilement therfore our calling is to serue as an Embasy in Christes owne stead These wordes be of great waight and exceedinglie set forth the vocation of the spirituall gouernours as of those that holde by the warrant of Gods sending and thereby occupie Christes owne roome Marie the place for all that appertaineth to their calling generallie as wel to preach as otherwise to guide the people of God in the behalfe of their Master to whome we al be subiect but this present text whereupon we now treat doth properlie concerne the commission giuen to the Apostles for the sacrament of penance and remission of sinnes For it doth in moste cleere and vndoubted sense giue to them the like right in that case that Christ him selfe had by the sending of God the father that is to saie the very same authority that he had in respect of his mediation and manhoode A Equalem patri filium nouimus saith Saint Augustine sed bîc verba Mediatoris agnoscimus medium quippe se ostendit dicendo ille me ego vus We know the sonne to be equall with the father but here we must acknowledge the wordes of a mediator For he shewed him selfe to be as a meane when he said He sent me and I send you That is to saie as Theophilact expoundeth it Take vpon you my worke and function and doe it with confidence For as my father did send me so I send you againe and I will be with you to the ende of the worlde FVLKE There is no dout but the Apostles had power to remit sins but yet for al your thetorical interrogations none other then I haue expressed before nor greater then may stand with the glory of Christ who maketh not men equal with him when he authorizeth them as his seruants to be ministers of his mysteries and stewardes of his gracious giftes And Paul trulie said much when he affirmed that god was in Christ recōciling the world to himselfe not imputing to them their offences which clause I know not why you haue omitted hath put in vs that word of recōciliation We are therfore embassadours for Christ c. For he said that it is proper to god to reconcile the world to forgiue sins or not to impute them that is but a ministery of reconciliation which he hath geuen vnto men she weth how this ministerie is executed namely by preaching reconciliation as the embassadours of God to desire men to be reconciled vnto God
otherwise but in his right name whosoeuer shall controlle or cōremne they not onely irreuerently touch gods annointed but they sacrilegiously laie handes on ipsum Christum Domini euen on him that is annointed aboue all his fellowes Well I conclud vp this matter with these few wordes of Saint Ambrose Vult Dominus plurimum posse discipulos suos Vult á seruis suis e a fieri in nominesuo quaefaciebat ipse positus in terris Our lordes pleasure is that his disciples should haue great prerogatiue he will haue the same thinges wrought by his seruants in his name that him-selfe did in his owne person when he was in earth FVLKE He that seeth not the difference of the ministerie of man from the power of God in those actions wherein God worketh by man gropeth in the darke seeth nothing as he ought to see Therefore let vs come to the light of your logick and thereby consider if we can the distinction of the one from the other If the maior or first proposition of your former syllogisme be vnderstood of a power or commission graunted to the manhood of Christ such as might haue beene graunted by God to anie other meere man then your Minor is not true that Christ by such a power and commission onelie setting his Godhead aside though truelie and effectuallie yet not in proper forme ofspeach by his fathers sending and commission remitted sinnes for then could he not be the author of remission of sinnes but onelie a minister thereof and therefore in proper forme ofspeach he could not be said to forgiue sinnes which is proper onely to god but to preach the forgiue nes of sinnes in Gods name or to testifie that God did forgiue sinnes as the ministers of the Church do Butif the Maior be vnderstood of such power commission as was giuen to Christ as the Mediator in respect of his manhood but yet such as he couldnot receiue exercise but in respect of his godhead such as could not be graunted to any but vnto that person which is God man such is the absolute principall power of remission of sinnes then I denie that such power was giuen to the Apostles at his departure For when Christ him-selfe did truelie effectuallie and in proper forme of speech remit sinnes he did it as God hauing equal and principall authoritie with the father and the holie ghost so to do The conclusion of your second syllogisme I graunt that the Apostles were sent to forgiue sinnes but retaining the former distinction of the authoritie of God and the ministerie of man For as Christ was sent of his father to preach the remission of sinnes so were the Apostles sent by Christ to preach remission of sinnes therefore such power as he had by preaching onely of remission of sinnes to forgiue sinnes such power be graunted to his Apostles whome he ordained preachers in his place but the proper pow er of his deity he graunted not nor any power which is proper to the person of the Mediator God and man Theresore these wordes of Christ As the father sent me so send I you must not be extended further then our sauiour Christ in that place meaneth For els infinite absurdities might be concluded thereof as that he sent his Apostles to redeeme the world to die for the sinnes of the world to be sauiours of the world c. or that he sendeth all ministers of the Church to whome this commission extendeth to clense leapers to raise the dead to giue sight to the blinde and to do all other miracles that he was sent to do According to this distinction that Rhetoricall amplification of Chrisostome is to be vnderstood and doubtles wonderfull great is the authoritie that man doth exercise in the name of God although that which is peculiar to God be not attributed to men The similitude that Chrysostome vseth in the same chapter Lib. 3. cap. 5. of a King graunting power to one of his subiects to imprison men and to release them sheweth that he knew the difference of the Lord from the seruant who if he abuse the authoritie committed vnto him deserueth sharpe punishment and therefore hath not absolute authoritie to do all things as his Lord and can not transgresse in doing And in the next Chapter he sheweth that Priestes do exercise this power of forgiuing sinnes by teaching admonition and by praier Not onelie by teaching and admonishing but also by the helpe of praiers and a manifest difference sheweth Saint Ambrose when he saith Christ would haue his disciples to do in his name the same thinges which he did on earth partlie in his fathers name and partlie in his owne name The power of priesthood touching remission of sinnes prooued by the solemne action of Christ in breathing vpon his Apostles and giuing them thereby the holie Ghost THE THIRD CHAP. ALLEN THe commission and power that our Master Christ receiued of his euerlasting father being in moste ample manner communicated with the Apostles made great proofe and euidence for the right that they claime in remission of sinnes but the present power of Gods spirit breathed by Christ vpon them and giuen vnto them for the ministerie and execution of that function helpeth our matter so much that whoso euer now denieth this authoritie of the Apostles concerning the pardoning of our offences doth not so much sinne against the sonne of man which of it selfe is greeuous inough as he doth controll the worke of the spirit of Christ which is the holie Ghost in whome both he and his Church doth remit sinnes The more plaine and more exact our master Christ was in the bestowing of that power to remit and retaine sinnes the more is our contempt in the disobedience and deniall thereof He sendeth them 〈◊〉 with his owne authoritie in this case he giueth them the verie spirit of God by whose diuine power they maie execute the function to which he called them he giueth them the expresse warrant of his owne word that sinnes they might pardon and punish and yet we make doubt of their vsurpation But how they might forgiue sinnes by Christes sending we haue alreadie said Now for the holie Ghostes power and prerogatiue in the same action which was breathed on the Apostles we must further conferre with such as call in question matters so plaine And first I am in goodhope that no man will denie but Christ gaue them the holie ghost for no other purpose so much as to remit sinnes Secondlie I doubt not of their faith and beliese in this point but they will confesse the holie ghost to be of power by nature and proprietie to forgiue sinnes Thirdlie I claime of their sinceritie thus much more that Christ being as well God as man was well able for the furniture of their calling to giue them the holie ghost all which being confessed of all men and denied of no Christian aline how the conclusion so beset with all
proofe on euerie side standeth not let the aduersaries tell me In the Apostles there can be no lack touching that officie for the execution whereof they receaued both Christes commission first and the holie spirit of God afterwarde In Christ there can be no default who was well able to giue and in deade did giue the holie ghost In the holie ghost there can be no let nor lacke whose power is infinie and his verie proprietie to remit sinnes All thinges then standing on so safe and sure groundes the giuer the gift and the receiuer competent and fullie answereable each to other on euerie side let the discontented ioyne in argument let him alledge why the Priests so authorized by Christ and so assured of the holie Ghost maie not either pardon or forgiue penance Neuer man auouched that he exercised the high action vpon his owne authoritie but that he maie not as a minister and seruant practize it vpon the warrant of Christ and present power of the holie Ghost that no faithfull person can affirme nor anie reasonable man stand in FVLKE The commission that our sauiour Christ receiued in his manhood to preach remission of sinnes was by him committed to his Apostles but in such ample manner as Christ had power to remit sinnes it is not prooued that Christ did communicate the same with his Apostles The visible signe of breathing by which our sauiour Christ testified that he did giue them the holie Ghost declareth that they were enabled with spirituall giftes to exercise their function the chiefe and principall end whereof was to pronounce in his name remission of sinnes to the beleeuers of the Gospell and condemnation to the contemners And this authoritie of the Apostles concerning the pardoning of our offences I know no man that denieth And therefore you spend vainlie the one halfe of your booke'in proouing that which no man doth denie namely that the Apostles and their lawful succesiours had and haue power by Christes graunt to remitte or to retaine sinnes The matters in question are these 1. Whither Popish Priestes be the lawful successours of the Apostles 2. What manner of power is this which is graunted and thirdly How it is to be exercised by Preaching the gospell or by Popish absolution and pardons For we denie your shauelings for the most part vnlearned to be the Priests or elders of the Church of god towhome this power is deriued from the Apostles we denie an absolute power to be graunted but a ministerie of testification and assurance of that which God onelie doth properlie and principallie Thirdly we deny that by Popish shrift absolution and pardons this power is to be exercised but by preaching of the Gospell whereunto are annexed the sacraments as seales of the doctrine These questions would haue beene directlie handled without such a tedious discourse to prooue confuselie the power that is graunted by Christ to his Apostles which is not denied but the kinde of power about which you wander vncertainly somtimes making it to be a meere ministery seruice vnder god the onelie worker therein sometime more then obscurelie insinuating that it is the verie same authoritie and none other but the same which Christ did exercise vpon earth and now hath committed it ouer or communicated it to Priestes as though he were bound to stand to their sentence in remitting or retaining sinnes or that they might remit as well as he and he must accept whatsoeuer they do in that case But seeing you wil not go directlie to worke we must follow you in your crooked path as well as we maie And for the first part of your conference where you are in good hope that no man wil deny but Christ gaue them the holy ghost for no other purpose so much as to remit sinnes I must say vnto you for my parte that forasmuch as remission of sinnes is the principall scope of preaching the Gospel they were indued with giftes of the holie ghost especially to call men to repentance forgiuenes of sinnes and to assure the repentant and beleeuers of the remission of sinnes by that authoritie and commission which they receaued of Christ. But if you meane that Christ gaue them the holie ghost for no other purpose so much as that they should heare mens shrift and giue them absolution in such forme of wordes as your Popish Priests do vse without preaching the gospell to them and setting forth the grace of god in Iesus Christ I denie that they receaued the holy ghost for any such purpose The other two partes I graunt but I know not what is your conclusion If you wil conclude that they haue power to remit sinnes I graunt it neither do I know anie man that denyeth it But if you meane to conclude thus because the holy Ghost which was giuen to the Apostles is of power by nature proprietie to forgiue sins therefore the Apostles did as properlie forgiue sins as god himselfe I denie your consequence And it seemeth you meane such a matter when you saie In the holie Ghost there can be no let nor lacke whose power is infinite and his verie propertie to remit sinnes which is verie true but yet it followeth not thereof that whosoeuer is endued with the holie Ghost hath infinite power and maie properlie remit sinnes For the holie Ghost is giuen in measure to all men not that his substance is diuisible that it maie be apportionated but that his gifts are distributed by him selfe in such measure as the wisdome of God seeth to be moste conuenient His essence is infinit and incomprehensible but he is said in Scripture to be present with them or in them on whome he bestoweth his graces and giftes Therefore I see not what consequence can be made of the holy ghostes infinit power and verie propertie to remit sins to conclude that the Apostles which receiued the holie Ghost rereiued infinite power or the verie propertie to remitre sinnes Where you will the discontented to ioyne in argument why the Priest so authorized by Christ and so assured of the holy Ghost may not either pardon or giue penance Thus I ioyne with you For remitting of sinnes I see authoritie but for giuing of penance none therefore I graunt the former and denie the latter For if by penance true repentance be vnderstood god onelie can giue repentance who onelie can turne the heart of man to feare him If you meane popish penance that is enioyning of satisfactorie works or punishment I denie that it is mentioned in the scriptures neither can it be contained in retaining of sinne Where you saie that neuer man aduouched that high action vpon his owne authoritie it is vntrue for Antichrist that lifteth him-selfe to be equall with God and Christ auoucheth vpon his owne authoritie although to cloke his manifest impietie that he might deceiue the simple he pretendeth the name authoritie of God Christ. But that the Apostles and their true successours by the
warrant of Christ his power receiued by the holy ghost maie as ministers seruants remit or retaine sins we do most willinglie consent and confesse But then they practise this power as seruants when they beinterpreters and declarers of the Lordes will and pleasure and require not that God should followe their sentence or attend how they be affected to forgiue or retaine and so to subscribe vnto their doing for that is an Antichristian vsurpation farre from the meaning of that power which Christ did graunt to his A postles ALLEN Some holie writers vpon this text of S. Iohn in which the order of Christes authorizing his Apostles for the remission of sinnes is described doe dispute of the difference of giuing the holie Ghost then to his Disciples and afterward on Whitsondaie some note the eternall ceremonie that our Master vsed when he gaue them the holie spirit which was by breathing on them that such outward actions might both be an euidence to them of that excellent gift which they inwardlie then receiued and should further be an euerlasting instruction to the Church that Gods grace and giftes be often ioyned to externall elements for the solace of our nature that delighteth to haue our outward man schooled as wel as the inward man nourished These and manie things moe be of profitable remembrance and consideration but not so much to our purpose Therefore let vs see whether the iudgement of the holie Fathers doe not wholie helpe our present cause prouing the Priests ministerie through the holie Ghostes authoritie that our declaration standing on the plaine wordes of scripture with their vndoubted sense maie obtaine inuincible force against the aduersaries worthie credit of the true beleeuers FVLKE If you had expressed what the writers are that thus dispute or discourse vpon this text we might better haue considred how pertinent or impertinent their opinions are to our matter in controuersie S. Chrysost. seemeth to allowe the opinion of some and Euthymius plainely affirmeth the same that the Apostles at this time did not presentlie receiue the holie ghost but onelie were prepared or made capable thereof which if it were true is contrarie to the title of your Chapter I like better of Cyrillus iudgement which thinketh they presentlie receiued the holie Ghost in some measure but not so plentifullie nor with such diuersitie of giftes as on the daie of Pentecost That the grace of God is testified assured and sealed vp vnto vs for the help of our infirmitie by outward signes and externall elementes ioined thereto we know confesse but as for the solace of our nature or delight to haue our outward man schooled I knowe not what they meane It is great mercie of God to beare with our weakenes but it agreeth not with the discipline of the Gospell that we should delight in outward thinges but rather to exercise our faith in spirituall and heauenlie meditations ALLEN We will make our entrance first with Saint Cyrill whoe debating with himselfe vppon the incomparable authoritie and power giuen to the Apostles for remission of sinnes standeth first as in contention with him selfe and with Christs words how it maie be that they being but men should forgiue the sinnes of our soules being sure of this that it is the propertie onelie of the true liuing god to assoile vs of our sinnes against whom onlie all sins be properlie committed And therfore being not of stomake as men be now a daies to denie that which Christes words so plainelie do import he made answere that the Apostles were in deed deified and made as you would saie partakers of Gods nature to worke Gods owne office in the world Qua igitur ratione saieth he diuinae naturae dignitatem ac potestatem discipulis suis saluator largitus est Quia certè absurdum non est peccata remitti posse ab illis qui Spiritum sanctum in seipsis habeant Nam cùm ipsi remmittunt aut detinent spiritus qui habitat in eis remittit detines By what meanes did our Sauiour giue vnto the Apostles the preheminence and power of Gods owne nature Surelie because it agreeth verie well that they should rimit mans sins that haue in themselues the holie Ghost For when they assoile or retaine sins it is the holie spirit that dwelleth in them which by their ministery doth remit or retaine sins Thus he I maruell not now whie this same father termeth the Apostles sometimes protectores curatores animarum corporum the protectors curers both of bodies soules it is not strange whie S. Ambrose should call the order of priestood Ordinem 〈◊〉 Neither that he should terme Officium Sacerdotis munus S. S. The Priests office to be the function of the holie Ghost No I doe not wonder at some of our forefathers that in the admiration of Gods Maiestic which they same to be so present in the execution of so high in office they did simplie and plainely terme the principall Pastours of the Church halfe Gods and not meere men not hauing respect to their persons which be compassed with infirmities as other the sinfull sort of people in the world be but casting eie vpward to the holie and excellent function which they practised by the spirit of God which dwelleth in them and deifieth their persons to make them of habilitie to exercise the workes of God FVLKE Saint Cyrill is farre from that blasphemie to saie that the Apostles were in deede deified and made partakers of Gods nature to worke Gods owne office in the world For ascribing to God that which is proper to him incommunicable to anie meere creature he maketh this obiection how our sauiour did graunt to his disciples the dignitie power of his diuine nature answereth that they were only made ministers instruments of the holy ghost to expresse his power in remitting sinnes by baptisme and repentance whereof S. Chrysostome also saieth vpon the same text that the Priest giueth onelie his tongue and his hand but the Father the sonne and the holie Ghost doth all things in this case I will rehearse the whole saying of Cyrillus that his iudgement maie more fullie appeare vpon this text Et certè solius veri Dei est c. And suerlie it pertaineth to the onelie true God that he is able to loose men from their sinnes For to what other person is it lawfull to deliuer the transgressors of the law from sinne but to the author of the law him-selfe for so in mennes affaires we see it to be done For no man without punishment doth reprooue the lawes of Kings but the Kinges them-selues in whome the crime of transgression hath no place For it is wiselie said that he is implous which shall saie to a King thou doest vniustlie By what meanes then did our Sauiour graunt to his disciples the dignitie and power of the diuine nature because trulie it is not absurde that sinnes may be remitted
truelie forgiue sinnes it is graunted but not that they doe properlie forgiue sinnes beeing but Gods seruants appointed to declare his forgiuenes Secondly your Minor bringeth in a fourth tearme Claue non errante beside that it is ambiguous that you saie Gods pardon followeth the preists pardon for if by following you meane succeading later in time or depending vpon the priests pardon your Minor is false wtih Claue non errante if you meane as I haue explicated in your Maior the worde ensueth it is true Last of all your conclusion ioyneth not your two extreames together as it ought to doe but leaueth out the worde which is of most importance and question among vs namelie this tearme Properlie For you should couclude that Priestes doe truelie and properlie remit sinnes which in respect of the worde properlie is false But as you set it downe with the worde assuredlie it is graunted For we acknowledge that the lawfull minister elder or priest of the Church doth truelie and assuredlie remit sinnes but yet not properlie So you misse the cushion and make a shew in your Maior as though you would reason directlie but in your Minor you giue backe with Claue non errante in your conclusion you fly quite from the question Where you interpret your Minor so that God in the same instant forgiueth in heauen you rid vs of one doubt of the posteritie in time But where you saie out of Saint Hilarie that mans sentence shall be as a sentence preiudiciall to God in heauen you giue vs to vnderstand that Gods sentence dependeth vpon mans sentence which is horrible blasphemie neither doe I beleeue that you are able to shew any such saying of Saint Hilarie for out of the places before alledged there is no such thinge to be seene or gathered That the same power of remitting and reteining sinnes which was giuen to the Apostles was nor bestowed on them in respect of their priuate persons but as they were publike officers and that therefore the like authoritie is committed by Christes graunt to all Priestes of Christes Church whoe in this matter are the Apostles successours THE FIFT CHAP. IF I had here to doe onelie with the learned it were enough that is alreadie prooued for the power preheminence giuen to the Apostles in remission of sinnes thereupon to ground most assuredlie the like right in the same cause to perteine to all Bishoppes and priestes of Christes Church But we studie to helpe such as cannot by this so farre consider that the power giuen to his Apostles or to any of them is one eternall power not ceasing in their persons but during in their succession to the worlds ende For I haue my selfe met with many such as could be content as they saide to acknowledge vpon so plaine scripture the singular priuiledge giuen to the Apostles and thereupon if they might haue had an Apostle they would not haue sticked to haue made there confession and sute to him for the remission of their sinnes but because I had not the like wordes of Christ spoken to all priests particularlie they thought it was no reason that any such challenge should be made for them nor any such charge to be giuen to others to confesse their sinnes vnto them This simplicitie of the common sorte or rather this rude frowardnes rising vpon contempt and disobedience to Gods Church is mainteined euen of the more learned sort whoe haue charged them-selues in all behauiour to be so populare and so plausible that euen against knowne order of things they will drawe backe from the light of the trueth with the common rude and vnlearned reasons of the people For Iohn Caluine a man borne to sedition and the Churches calamitie mainteineth the madnes of the multitude by this reason The Apostles saith he had the holy ghost whereof our priests haue no warrant But enquire of them whether they haue the holie ghost if they saie yea demaund of them further whether the holie Ghost may erre if they confesse that the holy ghost can not erre then they prooue themselues not to haue the holie Ghost because it is well seene that they may erre and doe erre both in loosing and binding many otherwise then Gods sentence will allow But brieflie to satisfie all sides in this case I shall declare the like power to be left by Christes meaning to al Bispopes and priests no lesse then to the Apostles them-selues to whome Christ then presentlie spake that both the peoples lacke of vnderstanding may be corrected and the false and craftie conueiance of their captaine may be to his shame and the diuells plainlie disclosed FVLKE It seemeth that those which you met with which would not acknowledge the same power to be in the ministers of the Church that was in the Apostles concerning remitting of sinnes were some of your owne chickens whome ignorance the mother of Popish deuotion had blooded vp in such phantasticall and soolish errors But least you should seeme to fight onelie with the simple sorte you saie the same opinion is vpon popularitie and plausibilitie mainteined euen of the more learned sort yea of Iohn Caluine him-selfe but you dare not set downe where or in which of his writings lest your impudencie should be manifestlie conuinced In deede Instit. lib. 3. Cap. 4. Sect. 20. he denieth that ignorant Popish confessours or shrift priests haue the power of the keyes which are voide of the spirit of God that is of the giftes of the holie ghost that they may know who me to binde whome to loose but he acknowledgeth the power of remitting sinnes to be perpetuall in the true preachers and faithfull ministers of the Ghospell And therefore you take needelesse paines to prooue this matter against him vnles you will take vpon you to defend the ignorance of your priesthoode and answere the arguments that he bringeth against it ALLEN First this is plaine that whatsoeuer Christ after his resurrection or before did institute for the commoditie of the people and weale of the wholl Church that did not decaie in the persons of them to whome Christ presentlie spake the wordes for ells all sacraments had beene ended and all gouernment ceased at the death of them to whome in person that charge was first giuen by Christ. For example Christ in his institution of the holie Sacrament of the altar spake onelie to his twelue to those present persons he onelie said presently hoc facite do this yet in their persons the Church was so instructed and all priests so authorized that the same soueraigne worke hath vpon that warrant beene truelie practized of the Church and by vaine imitation followed by their aduersaries euen till this daie And in deede the verie wordes of the instruction did importe no lesse for it is said Mortem Domini annunciabitis donec 〈◊〉 You shall set forth Christes death till his comming which could not be if the ministerie had decayed with their persons to whome Christ
gratia gratum faciens such a grace as maketh a man acceptable to God Therefore the holie Ghost breathed vpon the Apostles then by Christ and giuen yet to Priests in their ordering by Bishopes is a gift of God and a grace of the holy ghost not whereby man is made rertuous or cunning or happie before God but it is a gift onelie of God whereby man is called aboue his owne nature and dignitie to haue power and authoritie to doe and exercise anie function in Gods Church to the spirituall benefit of the people which is not onelie not alwaies ioyned to vertue and holie knowledge but it full often by calling due to them which are moste wicked persons without anie impaire of their authoritie And these kinde of giftes and graces of the holie Ghost be called gratiae gratis datae certaine giftes giuen to men for no desertes of their persons but freelie for the vse of other men to whome they be beneficiall euen there where they be hurtfull to the bestowers In which sense Saint Paule numbreth a great sorte in the fourth to the Ephesians and the first Epistle to the Corinshians and he calleth them not onelie the graces of the spirite but also the diuisions of functions and ministrations as the gift of working of miracles the gift of tongues the gift of prophecying the gift of preaching and so foorth all which being the giftes and graces of the spirit for the Churches edifying and of Saint Peter being called the holy Ghost in the Actes yet they were giuen to euill men often as well as to good without all imparing of Gods honoure yea with the great encrease of God glorie that euen by the wicked is able to worke his wil and holie purpose for the benefit of his Elect. And in this sense the spirite of God breathed vpon the Apostles was a gift of the holie Ghost whereby man should remit by lawfull power the sinnes of the people Whereupon Theophilact sayeth that Potestatem quandam donum spirituale dedit Apostolis vs remittant peccata ostendens quod genus spiritualium donorum eis dederit inquit quorum remiser it is peccata remittuntur eis that is to saie Christ gaue to his Apostles a certaine power and spirituall gift whereby they might remit sins for he shewed what power of the spirit it was that breathed on them when he said whose sinnes you doe for giue they be forgiuen Whosoeuer shall vndoubtedlie remit sinnes and absolue sinners must haue the same gift of the holie Ghost which the Apostles had whereby he cannot erre And this gift no man denieth but it maie be in a wicked and vngodlie man For euen such an one may preach the doctrine of Christ of remission of sinnes publikelie and priuatlie if he haue the calling that is required to that office Neither doth Caluine or any other that are of his iudgement otherwise require the like force of the holie ghostes assistance in al men that take vpon them to remit sinnes For there is not onelie a power but a knowledge required in him that shall assuredlie and vndoubtedlie forgiue sinnes And therefore the papistes doe vnreasonably make a diuorse of the keie of power from the keie of knowledge which power if it be no guided by knowledge doth nothing but insteade of opening and shutting with the keies committed to the Church throw forth the keies as the blinde man casteth his staffe which cannot happen so right in to the locke that they should open it to the penitent sinners For it is not the Priestes authoritie that can open the dore of comforte to a sinners conscience except he can declare vnto him out of the word of God how and by what meanes he maie be reconciled vnto God That the holie Ghost is giuen by Bishopes to Priestes in their ordering it is more boldlie affirmed then euer it can be prooued for Christ onelie hath authoritie to giue the holy Ghost and therefore to declare that it commeth from him alone among men he breathed vpon his Apostles which though the Bishops doe vntill their longues ake yet can they not furnish their parties by them ordered with giftes meet for their calling as Christ did his Apostles They must make choise therefore according to the Doctrine of the Apostle of those that haue those gratious and necessarie giftes of God before and to them they must commit the power and authoritie to exercise the same to the publike benefice of the Church But if they wil giue authoritie to them that haue no wisdome to exercise the same they make the most foolish iudges of all the world and such are worthelie contemned Therefore howsoeuer you distinguish grace you must not seeke to winne credit to them which haue nothing but pretense of authoritie when they be voide of all vnderstanding how to vse it as manie hundreds yea thousandes of your hedge Priests are if their calling were neuer so good as it is moste corrupt and vnlawfull ALLEN If our aduersaries be ignorant of these thinges which be so common in schooles of diuinitie yet we think they should remember that Saint Paul did not dissalow the authoritie nor power of preaching in such as were euil men and taught for emulation and not of sincere zeale of the Gospell and that Christ him-selfe stopped not such as cast out deuilles in his name and therefore were not without the gifte of workeing miracles though he professed that manie of them at the date of iudgement challenging some right of heauen vpou that acte should not be receiued to glory how the gift of prophecy was common in the olde 〈◊〉 not onelie to the wicked but to such as willinglie would deceiue the people And Caiphas he prophecied by the spirit of God as by force of his office being yet in purpose to worke wickednes against Christ himselfe for whose trueth he then by force of the spirit prophecied But of the Sacramentes of Gods Church euerie one that they may beministred beneficiallie to the receiuing in much wickednes of the giuer there is no man can be ignorant For it is a rule and a principle moste certaine that God worketh his will in them by the ministerie of men be they neuer so euill For elle they were mans sacraments and not Gods and we could not be certaine neither of our baptisme neither of right receiuing of Christes bodie in the holie sacrament of his eultar nor of any other spirituall benefit that we now by mans ministery receiue in the Church Much cōsort it were for al Christian people to hauesuch 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 then soules and such disposers of Gods mysteries as would could in all sinceritie and faithfulnes worke Gods 〈◊〉 and that would alwaies vse the high power giuen them to 〈◊〉 and neuer to destroie and that they would so doe both S. Peter and S. Paule doe often exhort them But neither the miserie of mans sinsull nature can suffer that nor our wickednes can
executed by any other man but onelie by our sauiour Christ the mediarour of god and man In which power he hath ordained man but as a seruant to doe nothing after his owne will but onlie to declare and pronounce the will of God therof In working of miracles it is otherwise in which mā so exerciseth that power either receiued of god or of the deuil that often times he causeth effects according to his owne wil contrarie to the wil of God reuealed in his word though nothing can be contrarie to his absolute will But the power of remitting sins no man can execute contrarie to the reuealed wil of God For Peter could not forgiue the sinnes of Iudes Iscariot Smon Magus Alexander the copper smith or anie other that sinned against the holy Ghost or that was not truly penitent for his sinnes or that beleeued not the promise of God Neither could Peter or can anie man retaine the sins of him that repenteth and taketh holde of Gods mercie by faith but he shall haue remission of sinnes though all the men in the world would saie the contrarie so that man hath no power in reteining or remitting of sins but by declaring the will of God wherof he hath no warrant but out of his worde For I aske this question of you if two priests hauing heard one mans confession at the same time be in contrarie opinions so that the one doth forgiue sinnes the other doth reteine them Whether of these sentences shal take place No doubt but you will saie that which is agreeable to the will of God Then doth it follow of necessitie that man doth onelie declare Gods will and hath no absolute or proper power to exercise this authoritie according to his owne will But as Peter saide to the lame man that which I haue I giue to thee and yet he had it not of his owne right of might but from God euen so saie you The power of pardoning sinnes is truelie and properlie in the priests as the power of working mitacles is properlie in Peters hands Idenie your consequence For although the pow er of working miracles were properly in Peters hands yet it followeth not that the power of pardoning sins was properlie in him For as I haue shewed there is great diuersitie betweene the one power and the other The power of miracles is graunted to Peter to be exercised according to the direction of Gods holie spirit agreeablie vnto the secret and absolute will of God But the power of pardoning sinnes is not graunted to Peter or any man but as to a messenger and declarer of Gods will as it is reuealed in his worde beside which if any presume to remit he doth but spend his breath in vaine But a wicked man hauing the power of miracles maie sometimes abuse it contrarie to Gods law as to mainteine false doctrine and Idolatry to hurt or to murther innocents thereby and yet wee may saie in some respect that the power of working miracles is not properlie in Peters handes both because it is not in him to heale whome and when he will but after as he hath a secret instinct of him that is the author of his gift and also because he is but an instrument of God whoe onelie doth great maruells properlie Psal. 136. as he confessed in the healing of AEneas Acts 9. saying Christ Ie sus heale thee So Acts. 3 His name hath made him strong and the faith which is by him hath giuen him his perfect health Where you conclude that the priests may saie likewise to the sicke soull That which I haue I giue thee In the name of Iesus Thy sinnes my sonne be forgiuen thee Although the sorme of speach be somewhat insolent and strange yet you confesse that the priest hath nothing to giue him but a declaration of Gods will when he saieth thy sins are forgiuen thee in the name of Iesus Yea if he shall saie in the name of lesus I forgiue thee thy sins the sense were no more but this Iesus doth assure thee by me his seruant and messenger that he hath satisfied for thy sinnes and therefore they shall no more be imputed vnto thee for God hath forgiuen them ALLEN And this worke of remitting sinnes is much more certain then the miraculous healing of the bodie beeing ioyned by Gods promise to a sacrament that shall neuer cease in the Church where miracles for most part ceased long since yea the name and maiestie of God is a thousand parts more honoured not onelie that God in his owne person but in the frailtie of hu ministers is able to accomplish such mightie miracles both in the cure of bodie and soull But the fondnes of this heresie is so great that it maketh those things to tend to Gods disgracing which he hath appointed properlie and onelie in a manner for the purpose to set forth the name of his sonne Iesus For if both sinnes of mans soull and sores of his bodie could not visiblie by externall meanes be healed in the glorious inuocation of Gods name it would surelie be forgotten in the Church of Christ that such power is giuen by God the father to his onelie sonne mans minde would not reach to that inwardly whereof he had no proofe nor assurance outwardelie I beseech you Sir the working of strange miracles giuen to some as well of the Prophets as of the Apostles of Christ were they any whit preiudicial to Gods honour or were they giuento man aboue his naturall power for the setting forth of God honour that the Prophets should see long before thinges that afterwarde did fall which is the proprietie of God alone and theirs onelie by gift and graunt of him to who me onelie it doth belong doe they dishonour God or els was it not alwaies graunted to some men for the glorie of God That Eliseus could see the heart and inwarde thoughts of Giezi his seruant which is Gods onelie propertie did it dishonour God or rather wonderfullie augment his glorie The passing preheminence that Peter and the rest receiued when they were hable by laying on of handes to giue the holie ghost can it not be practized without the dishonour of God or ells was it not principallse giuen to them to set forth the glory of God This was so great power that it was much more astonied at of the beholders then either working of miracles or remitting sinnes in so much that Simon the forcerer whoe was so glorious before that he called him selfe the power of God would haue giuen the Apostles money largely that vpon whome soeuer he had practized the like laying on of hands he might receiue the holie ghost also Then if the power of giuing the holie ghost or power of giuing grace which both Peter and Paull practized in a visible sacrament by a solemne ceremonie in the sight of all the worlde by laying on of their handes if this passing worke and moste proper to God I
that purpose And therefore hauing the grace of God and remission of sinnes ioyned vnto it by Christes promise it must needes be a sacrament as baptisme is which all the fathers doe insinuate when they make penance to be one prescribed ordinance of Christ to forgiue sinnes no lesse then Baptisme is Neither was it the preaching of the Gospell nor the inward sorowfullnes or repentance of former sinnes that Nouatus did condemne but it was the sacrament of penance and act of absolution by the Priestes ministerie which he so much abhorred and meant wickedlie to remooue For which cause as he was iustlie condemned of heresie by the Roman Nicen Councelles so were you Master Protestants both then in them and since in your Masters Wiclife Luther Caluine and the like accused by Gods Church and Councels FVLKE We will neuer graunt that baptisme or anie sacrament doth remit sinnes properlie but God by sacraments ministered by man doth assure vs that he doth remit our sins vnproperly we may say the sacraments and the ministers of them doe remit sinnes because the one is the mouth of god to declare his sentence of forgiuenes of our sins the other are the seals of god to confirme our faith in his promises of remission of sins To holde that the children of Christian Parentss in whome is no contempt or neglect of baptisme cannot be saued and receiued into heauen without it is to abridge the power of God as though he could not giue saluation without sacraments neither hath he declared anie necessitie of his will to the contrarie For the text of Iohn 3. Except a man be borne againe of water and of the spirit pertaineth not to the externall sacrament of baptisme more then the like saying of our sauiour Christ Iohn 6. Except you eate the flesh of the sonne of man and drinke hu blood you haue no life in you pertaineth to the sacrament of the Lordes supper That Originall sinne remaineth in the baptized though it be not imputed to the elect both the scripture and our owne experience teacheth Saint Paull did see another lawe in his members withstanding the lawe of his minde and bringing him captiue vnder the law of sinne which is in his members The Doctrine of onelie faith iustifyng and of imputed iustice although they be the Doctrine of the holie Ghost your blasphemous spirit calleth pelting paradoxes as your slaunderous malice not onelie imagineth but stoutlie affirmeth that we haue a secret Doctrine of Epicurisme which we teach secretly to certaine strangers at home c. Whereof let God who knoweth all secretes be iudge and reuenger Your argument of remission of sinnes in baptisme confirmed by testimonie of Saint Ambrose we graunt that it is no dishonour to God that man should remit sinnes by that power which god hath graunted him But whereas in his wordes you would haue the good reader to marke that poenitentia doth not signifie repentance but your popish sacrament of penance I will desire the good reader to marke the contrarie For Saint Ambrose by making obiection doth plainelie distinguish mysteriorum gratiam which is in baptisme from panitentia in which is onelie the inuocation of Gods name or the name of God aduouched for assurance of remission of sinnes which whether it be in the solemne act of reconciling those which are open penitents or in preaching and declaring remission of sinnes to al trulie repentant sinners it commeth all to one end For there is not in that repentance mysterium gratiae that is a promise adioyned to an outward sacrament which spirituallie worketh that which externallie it representeth Yet you saie there is an externall and visible action appointed by Christ 20. of Saint Iohn to reconcile sinners by the forme of absoluing which the Church vseth c. Here wanteth nothing but proofe of that you saie Here such syllogismes as you make at the end of euerie Chapter were necessarie to demonstrate this conclusion For we can see no external or visible action inthese words whose sins you retaine they are retained whose sins you remit they are remitted therefore no sacrament But all the fathers you saie doe insinuat the same when they make penance one prescribed ordinance of Christ to forgiue sinnes by no lesse then baptisme I denie this argument for euerie ordinance of Christ whereby sinnes are forgiuen is not a sacrament But it was not the preaching of the Gospell or repentance saie you that Nouatus did condemne but the sacrament of penance act of absolution by the Priestes ministerie Epiphanius and others doe writ that he denied remission of sins to thé that had fallen into idolatrie after baptisme although they were repentant Other more fauourablie write of him that he denied onely the outward reconciling vnto the Church or act of absolution by the priests ministerie for them that had so fallen But of the sacrament of penance there is no mention in any auncient writer of those or much later times Therefore Wiclif Luther Caluin and we all doe subscribe to the auncient Churches condemnation of Nouatus for an heretike and his opinion for heresie ALLEN The doctours therefore as I haue said ioyne lightlie in talking of remission of sinnes Baptisme and penance and some time extreame vnction also that you neede not doubt but they tooke them all three for sacraments workeing remission of sinnes For they doe not talke of inwarde repentance but of an action solemlie exercised in Gods Church whereof the priest as you heare by Saint Ambrose and Saint Chysostome is the minister And therefore Epiphanius saieth that the Church hath two penances one for an other insinuating thereby the double act of the Church and sacrament whereby sinnes be remitted As Saint Augustine also saieth by the Nouatians quòd poenitentiam denegant that they denie penance By which penance Lactantius teacheth vs also a way to discerne the true Church from the false as in which there is both confession and penance for the healing of mans frailtie Whereby it is euident that this penance which they speake of was an vsuall ceremonie and holy sacrament of the Church whereby sinnes were remitted FVLKE Such a sacrament such arguments the Doctorsioyne lightlie in talking of remission of sinnes baptisme and penance and sometime extreame vnction Therefore you neede not doubt that they toke them all three for sacraments And yet you haue not brought one Doctor that speaketh of extreame vnction For Chrysostome speaketh of the effect of praier made by the priest to obtaine remission of sinnes although the gift of healing be ceased in the Church And it is manifest that Saint Iames speaketh not of extreame vnction which you minister to none but such as are ready to die when he promiseth restitution of health to the diseased that were anointed in those daies Againe his vnction was onelie with oyle yours is with I cannot tell what slibbersauce cōsecrated by the Bishop That anointing was not extreame when it might be repeated
as sickenes might often take holde of men Yours is not extreame it may be repeated if it may not be repeated it is not the vnction that S. Iames speaketh of Of the sayings of Epiphanius and Lactantius we haue spoken before which it were needeles here to repeate That there was a ceremonie vsed in reconciling of publike penitents I denie not but that there was a sacrament of penance you haue hetherto brought no good euidence For your argument to prooue that they talke not of inward repentance but of an action solemnly exercised because we heare that the priest is minister is no good euidence for the priest is minister of the worde as well as of the sacraments ALLEN Which trueth Saint Cyrill vttereth most plainlie for our purpose treating thus vpon the words of institution of this sacrament Cùm ipsiremittunt aut detinent spiritus qui habitat in eis per ipsosremittit aut detinet fit autem id duobus modis primùm Baptisme deinde Poenitenita When the priestes remit sinnes or reteine them the holie ghost which which dwelleth in them doth remit or retein by them Which is done two manner of waies first in Baptisme and then afterward in penance Saint Cyprian also said that the holie ghost worketh remission of sinnes whether it be in baptisme or by other sacraments Whereby he cleerelie vttereth his meaning that there should be moe sacraments then one instituted by Christ for that purpose In all which congruitie of Gods holie working by diuerse sacraments the remission of sinnes we conclude against heresie that the priesis power herein derogateth no more to god nor our sauiour in the sacrament of penance then is doth before by baptisme or after by extreame vnction in none of al which as I haue prooued before Christ doth resigne his power and proper iurisdiction to the priestes but continuing euerlastinglie in like preheminence and power as before worketh his grace and remission of sinnes in all these Sacraments by the priests seruice and ministerie that it maybe yet as truelie as in his life time said and so shall be to the worlds ende Christ baptizeth Christ shriueth assoileth and anointeth sinners for remission of their offences Although Iesus doth none of these now nor much did in his life time but his disciples then and his disciples now doe the same holie actions in his name FVLKE There is nothing in Saint Cyrills wordes to prooue that there is a sacrament of repentance beside baptisme but that the holie ghost doth remit or reteine by his ministers by two waies namelie by baptisme by repentance after baptisme For if you will restraine the worde poenitentia to your pretended sacrament then this absurditie will follow that seeing there are but two waies by which the spirit remitteth sinnes they are not remitted without that sacrament neither by true contrition of heart without any sacrament not by receiuing the Lordes supper nor by your extreame vnction Therefore poenitentia in Saint Cyrill signifieth repentance and is necessarilie required in them that shall obteine remission of sinnes by participation of the Lordes supper or by faith without any sacrament That Cyprian maketh moe sacraments then one instituted by Christ to assure vs of remission of sinnes it is true For by the sacrament of the bodie and bloode of Christ worthelie receiued we haue this assurance also as well as by the sacrament of baptisme To conclude the power of Christ or of his ministers graunted by him we denie not but the institution of the sacrament of penance we require to be shewed out of the holie scriptures if you will haue vs to beleeue it ALLEN To conclude this matter I argue thus It is no dishonour to God for the priest to remit sinnes as well originall as actuall of all sortes and grauitie in the sacrament of Baptisme by the Protestantes owne confession nor by extreame vnction by the warrant both of scripture and Doctors Ergo remission of sinnes is not vnlawfull nor dishonourable to God to be giuen by the priest in the solemne sacrament of penance And further I ioyne with them thus The word of God is much more plaine and expresse for the priests warrant to remit sinnes in penance then in Baptisme but they may lawfullie doe it in Baptisme Ergo they may doe it no lesse lawfullie in penance Compare the wordes of institution of them both and iudge your selues of your indifferencie and sinceritie by what right you remooue the one and reteine the other I praie God you seeke not shortelie to baptize vs onely by your preaching as you now will onelie absolue vs by the same But truelie I thinke you be in the case that Saint Ambrose tooke Nouatus your forefather to haue bene in not onelie for that that he saieth Nouatus where he listed would admit power to priests of remission But where he listed not there the grace giuen to them must be dishonoured to God So that of thinges equallie commended by scripture and commaunded by God the good man must haue choise for his tooth not onelie in this point I now compare our choise men but much more in that which followeth in the saide Saint Ambrose of all Nouatians whome he trippeth pretelie with this terme delicati mei My delicate gentlemen saith he with their lustie lookes and swelling hartes can not abide in their brauerie to looke vpon a poore caitisse weeping for his sinnes abundantlie apparelled mourninglie in sad and sorowfull companie and so forth And this surelie is the disease of our daies which hath not onelie infected the vnfaithfull but also hath made these holie thinges lothsome euen to the better sorte of Gods people So much is mans will and pleasure pampered where Gods worde and writing should be onelie followed For the necessarie bearing with such frailtie euen of the good almost generallie the Church of God hath sought and allowed much more gentle remedies then the worlde had wont full gladlie to beare for their greeuous sinnes FVLKE We confesse that it is no dishonour to God that the minister lawfullie authorized should remit sinnes in such sorte as he hath commission namelie by declaring the wil of God that they are by him remitted and giuing the seales or sacraments of God for more full assurance of performance as euen the Master of the sentences teacheth out of S. Augustine and other Doctors whose words I wil set downe that the indifferent reader may see how you agree with your owne principal piller and post of Poperie who in this point seemeth to be more sound yet then you Cùm veraciter ad Deum conuerso peccata dimittuntur ab iis dimittuntur quibus ipse veraci conuersione coniungitur Spiritus sanctus ea dimittit qui datus est omnibus sanctis sibi charitare cohaer entibus siue se nouerint corporaliter siue non Similiter cum alicuius tenentur peccato ab eis tenentur quibus ille cordis prauitate disiungitur siue
notis corporaliter siue ignotis Omnes enim mali spiritualiter à bonis seiuncti sunt Ecce hic dicit peccata dimitti vel teneri à sanctis viris tamen spiritum sanctum ea dimittere dicit quod maiori consideratione dignum est idem etiam dicit quod Deus per se vel per sanctos suos tantùm dimittit peccata ait enim sic sacramentum gratiae dat Deus etiam per malos ipsam vero gratiam non nisi per seipsum vel pcr sanctos suos ideo remissionem peccatorum vel per seipsum facit velper ipsius columbae membra quibus ait si quibus dimiseritis aimittentur Ecce quà m varia à doctoribus traduntur super his in hactanta varietate quid tenendum Hoc sane discere sentire possumus quod solus Deus dimittit peccata retinet tamen Ecclesiae contulit potestatem ligands soluendi Sed aliter ipse soluit vel ligat aliter Ecclesia Ipse enim per se tantùm dimittit pecca tum quia enim animam mundat ab interiore macula à debito aeternae mortis soluit Non autem hoc sacerdotibus concessit quibus tamen tribuit potestatem soluendi ligandi id est ostendendi homines ligatos vel solutos vnde Dominus leprosū sanitati priùs per se restituit deinde ad sacerdotes misit quorum iudicio ostenderetur mundatus When sinnes are forgiuen to him that is truelie turned to God they are forgiuen by them to whome he him selfe by true conuersion is ioyned The holie ghost forgiueth them which is giuen to all the Saints which are knit together in charitie whether they know one another corporallie or not Likewise when any mans sinnes are reteined they are reteined by them from whome he is disioyned by prauitie of heart whether they be corporally knowne or vnknowne For all euill men are spirituallie separated from good men Beholde here he saieth that sinnes are forgiuen or reteined by the Saints or holiemen Ana'yet he saieth that the holy ghost doth forgiue them and that which is worthie of greater consideration the same Doctor also saith that God by himselfe or by his Saints onelie remittesh sinnes For thus he saieth The sacrament of grace god giueth euen by euilmen but grace it selfe not but by himselfe he causeth or by the members of that doue to whome he saith if to any ye shal forgiue they shal be forgiuen Beholde how diuerse thinges are deliuered by the Doctors concerning these matters and in this so great variety what is to be holden This truelie we may saie and thinke that onely God forgiueth sinnes and reteineth and yet he hath giuen power to the Church of binding and loosing but otherwise doth he him selfe bind and loose otherwise the Church For he him selfe by him selfe onelie forgiueth sinne because both he clensith the soul from the inward spot and looseeh from the debt of eternall death But this he hath not graunted to the priests to whome notwihstanding he hath giuen power of binding and loosing that is to saie of declaring men to be bound or loosed whereupon our Lord did first by him seifere store the Leper to health asterwards sent him to the priests by whose iudgement he might be declared to be clensed Thus writeth the Master of the sentences with more to this effect In your second argument brought to prooue that penance is a sacrament I denie the Antecedent that there is any wordes of institution to prooue your sacrament of penance Where you feare vainlie least we will shortly seeke to baptize by preaching as we wil absolue you onelie by the same you declare nothing but your harde conceit of vs. For we are olde enough to know the difference of the ministerie of the worde and the sacrament a sunder To compare vs with Nouatus either in the one point or in the other you haue no cause in the world but your owne malicious and slaunderous humor For we doe not admit the power of remission where we list but wheresoeuer God hath graunted it and in what manner soeuer he hath appointed it to be exercised We are readie to receiue the publike penitents that with plentie of teares and other outward signes doe testifie the inward sorowe of their hearts conceiued for their greeuous and notorious sinnes Yea we receiue them whose offences being not openlie knowne doe neuertheles secretlie bewaile their sinnes And therefore that you saie of pampering mans will and pleasure where Gods worde and writing should be onely followed seeke among your owne sect where it may take place For sinnes openlie committed or knowne to be committed we holde that they ought with open confession to be chastised for satisfying the Church that is offended by them As for sinnes committed in secret whereby our neighbour is neither hurt nor offended it is sufficient that they be acknowledged with hartie repentance before god if the offendours conscience be not troubled with further doubtfulnes about them In which case we holde that it is conuenient that he should consult with the learned minister for his further comfort and satisfaction out of the worde of God concerning the remission of his sinnes ALLEN And therefore the manner and order of Penance hath bin diuerse in sundry ages and countries sometimes solemne which could be but once taken in al a mans life somtimes not solemne but yet open and publike which might be iterated as ofien as mans mortal sinnes so required other times priuat onelie betwixt the priest and the penitent which is now vsed and long hath beene in a manner gencrallie thorough the wholl worlde Of all which diuersities we will not now intreat nor for our matter the consideration of them is virie needfull seing that in all sortes and in euerie of the sundry formes of doing penance this is a most firme principle that the penitent had remission of sinnes for which he did penance no otherwise but by the ministerie of the Priestes Therefore the substance of the matter being one of the diuersitie of vse and circumstances which maie be according to the time and manners of men altered we need not much to care Baptisme was once vsed with solemnitie at two or three principall feastes of the yeare for the time so required then and the condition of the people yet the same sacrament of Baptisme ministerea'now priuatlie as occasion serueth by the birth of euerie childe is of the same force and grace now that it was then Wherein to reprehend the wisdome of Gods Church that is assuredlie ruled by the spirit of God is ouermuch wantonnes of will and sedition not tolerable FVLKE There hath beene diuerse manners and orders appointed for the punishment of sins and for triall of the offenders true repentance conuersion vnto god but all these prooue not any sacrament of penance The manner which the Popish Church doth vse in the exercise of this pretensed sacrament is partly
tyrannical while you inforce men to confesse their secret sinnes to a popish Priest where of there is no commaundement in the holie scriptures and partlie it is an encouragement vnto securitie a pampering in sinne while the fraile and foolish man is persuaded that by the heard confession absolution receiued of the Priest he is cleerelie discharged of his sinnes and may be toti es quoties with a litle pretie penance enioyned him for satisfaction But it is a firme principle you saie that in all formes of penance the penitent had remission of his sinnes for which he did penance no otherwise but by the ministerie of the Priestes A heauie case where the Priestes were straight laced and would retaine sinnes where God was readie to forgiue What is this els but to restraine the mercie of God to the ministerie of vnskilfull men At what howre so euer the sinner doth truelie repent the Lord remitteth his sinnes But man can not allwaies see or by outward tokens iudge of true and inward repentance Therefore it is a firme principle that God often times forgaue sinnes to the penitent otherwise then by the ministerie of the Prieste Men maie erre in exercising outward discipline but Gods remission is not staied vpon mans error Where you conclude that as the diuerse vse of baptisme hindreth not but that in substance it is the same so the sacrament of penance notwithstanding the diuers formes and manners in which it hath or is now vsed Your comparison is nought For baptisme is a sacrament of Christes institution your popish penance can neuer be prooued to be a sacrament Therfore your argument à paribus is of no force Whether the Church did well to restraine baptisme to certaine solemne feastes I will not here dispute That remission of sinnes hath beene ioyned often both in the law of nature and Moses to some externall ceremonies and sacrifices whereof in the olde law Priestes were appointed ministers THE NINTH CHAP. LEt no man vpon consideration of these thinges either reprehend or maruatle at the counsel and ordinance of god that he being hable to gouerne his creatures and amend or correct pardon or punish euerie mans misdeedes by him-selfe without all helpe and seruice of anie other his subiect natures that it pleaseth his wisdome for all that to forgiue sinnes no otherwise in his Church but by externall orders ioyned to mans ministerie in sundrie sacramentes In sober consideration of these thinges mans reason maie well be satisfied if he can conceiue that it is the honour and estimation of our kinde with almightie God our maker that he gouerneth not our affaires onelie by him selfe in his owne person but also that we be ruled and led in the waies of Gods will by one an other that the maiestie of God which most appeareth in regiment and in remitting of sinnes in correcting of 〈◊〉 and iudgement might be cleerelie seene in our kinde amongst our selues to our comfort and Gods no disgracing nor dishonour at all And therefore Saint Augustine saith of the like doubt of some in his daies which would not be taught by man but by Gods owne spirit Abiecta esset humana conditio si per homines hominibus verbum suum Deus ministrare nolle videretur Quomodo enim verum esset quod dictum est Templum enim Dei sanctum est quod estis vos si de humano templo Deus responsa non redderet Mans state were too base if God would not that his word should be ministred by one man to another For how should this truelie be spoken the temple of God is holie the which temple you are if God gaue not answers by mans temple This is one great respect surelie especialle since the second person in Trinitie tooke vpon him our nature by whome the woorthines of mankinde is much increased and more fit then euer before to serue ech other as in the workes that be diuine and properlie by nature belonging to God himselfe An other respect why we should by externall sacraments and mans ministerie receiue grace and remission of sinnes is the singular respect had by God of our infirmitie as well of minde as bodie For the minde requireth in her assured deseruing of damnation some externall token by which she maie haue good cause to hope of mercie and grace For where I know and assure myselfe that originall sinne is remitted by baptisme when I haue once receiued the same then I am in no further doubt of my selfe nor anie damnation for that sinne which by the promis of God I haue learned shall be washed awaie thereby as by an externall instrument in which he conueigheth that benefit to my soule if my soule by indisposition and unaptnes do not hinder the assured fruit thereof So where after Baptisme mans life is often defiled by greeuons sinnes and God highlie displeased therefore what an infinite treaskre it is and how great a comfort to haue an assured helpe therof wrought so by mans ministery in a visible action that I maie know sauing for mine owne lack of connenient disposition my sinnes to be forgiuen and Gods mercie and fauour to be obteined againe We maie conceiue easily what a passing comfort it was to the parties that heard sensiblie by the outward wordes of Christes owne mouth thy sinnes be forgiuen thee The said persons beleeuing in Christ and lamenting for their sinnes past might haue had some hope of remission by Christ though he had said no such thing vnto them yet he that perceiueth not what comfort of conscience what inward ioy of minde what reioysing of the spirit they must needes haue that had Christes testimonie and blessing in plaine termes for the same purpose he seeth nothing at all FVLKE That God hath vsed in all ages to testifie and assure men of his grace and mercie to the forgiuenes of their sinnes by outward signes and sacraments and that for diuerse good causes we are allwaies readie to acknowledge But that it pleaseth his wisdome as you saie to forgiue sinnes no otherwise in his Church but by externall orders ioyned to mans ministery in sundry sacraments we do vtterlie denie For that were to tie the grace of God to the outward sacraments which is most free to worke either with them or without them The penitent publicane an example of persons that seeke iustification had his sinnes forgiuen him by the onelie grace and mercie of God taken holde of by faith without al external orders ioyned to mans ministerie in any sacrament For if we acknowledge our sins he is faithfull and iust to forgiue vs our sinnes and to clense vs from all vnrighteousnes And Iesus Christ is our aduocate with the father to obtaine remission of sinnes And if anie man shal see his brother sinne a sinne not to death he shall ask he will giue life vnto him that sinneth not vnto death By all which testimonies and an hundreth more that are euery where to
be found in the scripture it is most cleere that God forgiueth our sinnes otherwise then by externall orders or sacramets Againe the sacrament of Baptisme is a seale and assurance vnto vs of the forgiuenes of our sinnes not onely such as are com mitted before baptisme receiued but euen vnto our liues end whensoeuer we are truelie penitent for the same Also the sacrament of the Lords supper in which we are spirituallie fed with the bodie of Christ which was giuen for vs and with his blood which was shed for the remission of our sinnes is a sure pledge token and seale of the remission of our sinnes committed after baptisme that we neede not the Popish sacrament of pennance for the same ALLEN As for my selfe good Christian Reader I am not so free from sinne wo is me therefore nor so void of mans affection but as often I heare in the sacrament of penance the Priest who to me then is Christ in full power of pardoning saying the wordes of absolution ouer me me think truelie I heare the sweete voice of Christ saying with authoritie thy sinnes be forgiuen thee Whereof no mortallman shall euer forbid me to take hope and singular trust of remission of sinnes with the passing comfort that thereon ensueth All these that are without Christes folde seeke not to heare his voice for all their load of sinne from the heauenlie and intire ioy whereof they be as farre as from the conceiuing of of the felicitie to come in heauen it selfe But let them assure themselues that Christ writeth with his holie finger all their sinnes though to Christ they will not now confesse them whiles they refuse the power ofremission that he both had aud hath in earth to the worldes end without which outward solemne act of penance man should either dispaire of Gods mercie and liue in feare intollerable of euerlasting perishing which often fall to timerous consciences or els which is now of daies more common men would liue in such passing presumption and vaine securitie of heauen that they should neuer till the very last breath of their euill time either be sorie for sinne or seke to do any good worke at al. This time shall testifie with me herein and the verie diuersitie that is betweene these our corrupt conditions and the holy studies and endeauours of our forefathers shalltestifie but the daies that yet are to come must need most feele the smart of it when these that now haue the direction of other mens steppes shall be gone by whome for olde discipline wherein they were brought vp Some signes and remnantes of vertue be continued in the world For when they be spent and our yonkers that neuer heard of the Churches discipline but haue had their full swinge in sinne with the instruction of a most wanton doctrine shall be the principall of the people if this diuision so long continue which God forbid into what terms shal trueth and vertue be then brought Me think I see before hand the lamentable state of things and in a manner beholde the fruit of our onelie faith of this bolde presumption of Gods mercie of remouing the discipline of penance of refusing the onely ordinance of God for remission of our mortall sinnes Euil are we now but a thousand partes worsse shal they be then which in long nouseling in this naughtie learning of libertie shall be in perpetuall wo and haue no feele nor sense thereof And all this must needs follow vpon the lack of these outward acts external waies of pardoning punishing offences and intended either for mans present comfort and solace or els to keepe in awe the wantons of the world by the rodde of outward discipline which in the Church hath euer especiallie beene obserued in the sacrament of penance FVLKE When we heare the authorized embassadours and messengers of reconciliation pronounce in the name of Christ according to the scriptures and promises of God that our sinnes are forgiuen vs whensoeuer we be hartilie sorie truely penitent for the same we haue sufficient warrant out of Gods word to assure our selues of remission of them with inestimable ioy comfort of conscience But for the sacrament of penance or the Priest to be Christ vnto vs in fullpower of pardoning or to haue anie wordes of absolution said ouer vs because we haue no ground in Gods word whatsoeuer imaginarie pleasure you haue therein we finde nothing that is of force to staie a weake conscience to comfort a troubled spirit or to heale a broken heart To confesse our sinnes to Christ who onelie knoweth whether our repentance be vnfained God forbid that we should refuse But to confesse them to a Popish Priest or anie lawfull minister if they be secret there is no law or commaundement of God to require vs. If our conscience be not satisfied about anie offence that we haue committed how we should declare our vnfained conuersion or repentance we maie vse the aduise of the Godlie and learned pastor who is able out of the word of god toresolue our doubts and quiet our conscience That the want of Popish pennance will driue all men either to desperation or securitie and presumption it is affirmed without anie proofe God be praised experience cryeth out of the contrarie side But rather the doctrine of poperie concerning the pretensed sacrament of penance is manifest occasion of securitie in them that are carnallie minded of desperation in them that haue a tender conscience For the one thinketh he hath an easy remedy for his sinnes to discharge them into a priestes eare the other considering the impossibilitie of confession and vnsufficiency of the satisfaction that be parts of this counterfet sacrament can finde smal comfort in the priests absolution Your blasphemous rayling at the doctrine of God iustifying by faith onely which you cal the instruction of a most wanton doctrine and the naughtie learning of libertie is sufficiently confuted by the examples of many thousands of Gods Saints who acknowledging that they are iustified in the sight of God by faith onelie in the merites of Christ are more fruitfull in good workes then all the popish hypocrites in the world Where you terme your popish penance to be the onely ordinance of god for remission of our mortall sinnes you vtter not onelie a grosse contradiction of the trueth taught in the holie scriptures but also directlie contrarie to the doctrine of all Papists and euen of your selfe For what saie you M. Allen were you wel aduised when you said that penance is the onely ordinance of God for remission of our mortal sins If it be as you saie then the sacrifice of the masse is not the ordinance of God for remission of our mortall sinnes as al Papists beside you do holde and mantaine and extreame vnction wherof you haue latelie affir med the contrarie is not the ordinance of God for the remission of our mortall sinnes The discipline of the Church wherby wantons are kept in
in renecessarilie rife for theie of all Christian people doth him confession of euerie of their mortall sinnes vnto h as the same is also prooued by the doctrine of the olie Fathers of Chistes Church THE TENTH CHAP. ALLEN ANd now I must aduertise my louing breethrenof the necessarie sequele hereof which to some I know seemeth so hard and vpleasant that the verie consideration thereof hath driuen manie that haue not felt the sweetenesse of Gods spirit by which euerie of his commaundements be they neuer so rough in apparance are made easie and delectable to the feare misliking and lothsomenes of the sacrament of penance Which as it is for other causes manie much abhorred of the wantons latelie departed out of the Church and of some worldlie Catholikes to that be not so zelouse in following trueth as they be desirous to know trueth so it is most lothed and feared for that in it there is required a distinct simple sincere and plaine confesfion to be made of euerie sinne that is knowne or suspected to be mortall vnto a Priest which is the lawfull minister of the same Sacrament with such diligent and exact examination of our consciences as a matter of such importance doth of reason require This is the great offence and staie that the weaklings of Christes Church do so earnestlie respect and so long they shall be vexed and molested in minde with the sower remembrance thereof as they do not prooue the sweete gratious and incomparable effect ensueing most assuredlie thereon so long shall they stumble at so small a straw as they do not feele the burden of sinne feare the paines of hell follow the quiet of conscience foresee the dreadfull daie of iudgement so long shall they be bashfull to submit them selues to one mans most close secret meeke and merciful iudgement as they feare not the infinite shame open horrible confusion and euerlasting rebuke before God Angell man and Deuill at the seat and sentence that shall be pronounced in the face of all creatures which must fall to them that close vp vnder couer and compas of their conscience such a number of manifold sinnes whereof in that daie both account and confession must be made to their vttermost confusion Finally so long shal mans will and corrupted nature disobey Gods ordinance heerein as he earnestlie and humbly seeketh not by praier at Christes handes the grace and gift of obedience and repentance Fot as the fulfilling of euerie of Gods commaundements cannot otherwise be had but by his speciall fauour so saith Saint Augustine or as some thinke rather Fulgentius Firmissime tene nullatenus dubites neminem hic posse hominem panitentiam agere nist quem Deus illuminauerit gratuita sua mis ratione conuertis Hold this for an assurance that no man can here do penance except he be illumined and conuerted theseunto by his singular mercie Neither doth this Doctour mean of anie otherway of repentance then is vsed for mortal sinnes after baptisme in the sacrament of the Church putting there in a manner by expresse wordes a double sacrament one for originall sinne that is in children onelie and that he calleth Sacramentum fidei that other for sinnes afterward committed which he tearmeth Poenitentiam Penance FVLKE That auricular confession or popish shrift is a necessarie sequele of the power that Christ hath giuen to the ministers of his Church to forgiue sinnes we must now see in what sorre you are able to prooue In which argument though most needfull for your purpose you haue verie litle to saie and that nothing to the purpose in deede either out of the scripture or out of the auncient fathers First you saie that shrift seemeth hard to them that haue not felt the sweetenes of Gods spirit by which euerie of his commaundements are made easie and delectable Here therefore were conuenient place for you to shew where in all the scriptures God hath commaunded men to confesse all their mortal sinnes committed in thought word or deede vnto a priest of your order But now you are as drie as a kixe and as barren of proofe as a pumisse stone of water There be many other causes then you alledge why popish shrift is so burthenous And the principall cause is because it is a tradition of man to clogge the conscience with intollerable seruitude And in stead of al the causes of the contempt thereof that you alledge so long shall euerie Christian man despise your auricular confession as any thing necessary required of him vntill you be able out of the holie scriptures inspired of God to prooue that it is such an ordinance of God as you in many wordes to no purpose doe bragge of before you bring forth the worde of God to prooue it The saying of Fulgentius is verie Godly and grounded vpon the holy scriptures but that he doth not meane of any other waie of repentance then is vsed in your popish Church what argument haue you to shew He putteth there you saie in a manner by expresse wordes a double sacrament calling the one sacramentum fidei and the other poenitentiam the sacrament of faith and repentance This is a strange manner of expresse wordes to prooue poenitentia to be a sacrament because baptisme is so yea it is manifest by his expresse words that he acknowledgeth no sacramentum poenitentiae but baptisine Cap. 30. Firmissimè tene nullatenus dubites exeptis illis qui pro nomine Christi suo sanguine baptizantur nullum hominem accepturum vitam aeternam qui non hîc à malis suis fuerit per penitentiam fidemque conuersus per sacramentum fidei penitentioe id est per baptismum liberatus maioribus quidem necessarium esse poenitentiam de malis suis agere fidem Catholicam secundùm regulam veritatis tenere sacramentum baptismatis accipere Paruulis verò qui nec propria voluntate credere nec poenitentiam pro peccato quod originaliter trahunt agere possunt sacramentum fidei quod est sanctum baptisma quamdiu rationis oetas eorum capax esse non potest sufficere ad salutem Holde thou most stedfastlie and nothing doubt that except those which for the name of Christ are baptized in their owne blood no man shall receiue life euerlasting which shall not be here conuerted from his euills by repentance and faith and by the sacrament of faith and repentance that is by baptisme be deliuered And for them that be of yeares truelie it is necessarie both to repent of their euills and to know the Catholike faith according to the rule of trueth and to receiue the sacrament of Baptisme But for infants which neither can beleeue by their owne will nor be penitent for the sinne which they draw originally the sacrament of faith which is baptisme is sufficient for them vnto saluation so long as their age cannot be ca pable of reason yea it semeth by this saying going imme diately before
they are not crowned if they be not didicated But if they be washed in their own blood this mans will pietie also hath washed him Againe he saith speaking in an Apostrophe to him Quis dabit tefrater fratrem mihi lactentem vbera matris meae hoc est non quicunque te sed Christus illuminabit gratia spirituali ille te baptizauit quia humana tibi officia defuerunt Who shall giue thee brother to be my brother sucking the papes of my mother that is not euerie one but Christ him selfe shall lighten thee with spirituall grace He hath baptized thee because the seruice of man was wanting to thee By all which wordes it is manifest that S. Ambrose vnderstood not those wordes of our sauiour Christ of externall baptisme as you doe when he refuseth not them that haue a purpose and will to be baptized and are preuented by necessity of time But where you proceed and dare be bolde to saie that neuer man was saued that either contemned or neglected confession if you meane popish auricular and as you after call it sacramentall confession I dare be bolde to saie you speake vntrulie because the word of God prescribeth no such confession as necessarie to saluation Confession of that we beleeue and of our sins before God I knowe to be necessarie to saluation Neither can you prooue that they which dispise popish shrift be contemners of Gods ordinance for the Minor of your syllogisme that followeth is a lowd lie that your popish sacrament of penance and confession made to the Priest is the appointed meanes that God vseth in his Church for remission of mortall sinnes for God hath appointed no such sacrament or confession as necessarie meanes without the which remission of sinnes may not be obtained Your similitude of baptisme will prooue nothing except you can first prooue your confession to be of Gods institution as necessarie for doing awaie sinnes committed after baptisme as baptisme is by Christs ordinance the seale of regeneration by which we are assured of the remissiō of our sins ALLEN And yet me thinke I heare alreadie the sounde of the deceitfull voices of our Preachers It is Christes bloode that remitteth sinnes Come to me all ye that are heauie loaden and I shall refresh you I am he saith the Lord that putteth awaie thy sinnes with a thousand such like as though Christes bloode did not stand with Christes ordinances and sacraments as though they came not to Christ that keepe the waie of his will and sacraments to come vnto him as though God did not remit those sinnes which in his name and in his sacraments and by his appointed minister be remitted Protestant saie plainlie will thou refuse baptisme because Christes bloode washeth awaie originall sinnes If thou darest not openlie so preach although couertly thou maie chaunce so intend how darest thou deceiue the people and draw them from penance and confession because Christes blood doth remit sinnes For if the one sacrament may stand with the honour of God and with all those places that thou bringest so deceitfullie out of the scripture why may not the other seeing both are prooued alike to be instituted of Christ For the same selfe sauiour which said Come to me ye that be loaden and I shall refresh you he and no other said except you be borne of water and the holie Ghost you cannot enter into the kingdome of heauen The same God that said I am he that putteth awaie thy sinnes saith now to the Apostles and Priestss whose sinnes you doe forgiue forgiuen be they The same Spirit of God that said in the Prophet Confesse your selues to the Lorde for he his good said now againe in the Apostle confesse your sinnes one to another that you maie be saued By which he meaneth not as Origen venerable Bede and other doe declare so much brotherly acknowledging sor counsellor other causes the greefe of minde ech man to his fellowe as he doth the order of sacramentall confession to be made vnto gods Priests as it may well appeere by the circumstance of the letter For there he had willed them to send for the Priestes of the Church to annoile them streight after addeth this alledged text of confession and praing ouer the sicke The which place the heretikes sawe to sounde so manie waies as well towardes the sacrament of extreame vnction as the sacrament of confession both which they haue vnworthilie abandoned that they thought it not amisse either to denie the Apostles authoritie and the wholl epistle as no peece of holie scripture as Luther and other did or else which was after thought more handsome conueiance to corrupt the text and write instead of send for the Priestes of the Church thus call the elders of the congregation For they thought it might sounde euill to haue in one sentence priestes Church confession remission of sinnes release of paines for sinne annoiling praying ouer the sicke and so forth FVLKE It is no deceitfull voice of our preachers to affirme by these and a thousand such like textes of scripture that it belongeth to God onelie to forgiue sins properlie satisfaction being made for them by the bloode of Christ. And yet we derogat nothing from Christes ordinances and sacraments by which he worketh effectuall assurance of the same We acknowledge the ministerie of the Apostles and their lawful successours for the remission and retaining of sinnes both by preaching and by ministering of the sacraments instituted by our sauiour Christ. But we denie and dare stand to the deniall with all the papists that hath beene are or shal be that popish penance and confession is anie sacrament of our sauiour Christes institution for he that said whose sinnes you forgiue forgiuen be they hath not said whosoeuer will haue his sinnes forgiuen by you must haue some penance by you inioyned for satisfaction of Gods iustice yea there is nothing more contrarie to forgiuenes then satisfaction made by the partie to whome sinnes should be forgiuen And he that said confesse your offences one to another and praie one for an other that you maie be healed saith no where confesse all your sinnes vnto a Priest that you may be saued but willeth a mutuall acknoledgeing and reconciliation of one Christian man to another where there hath bin anie trespasse of such offences as one man hath committed against another and a mutuall acknowledging of our sinfullnes one to another that we may be sturred vp to mutuall praier By which textre the Priest is asmuch bounde to shriue himselfe to his parishioner as the parishioner to the Priest But Origen and Bede are alledged to prooue that the Apostle meaneth not onlie of such acknowledgeing nor so much thereof as the order of sacramental confession Verilie when the wordes of the scripture are plaine the sense 〈◊〉 to be gathered of the plaine words we may not restin anie mans opinion that is contrary to the same The word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉
the leprous persons that is to say should onely discerne which were by God remitted or not remitted they could not that doo excepte they sawe the varietie of the saide sinnes by mans confession But now seeing they haue further interest in our matters and must properly both pardon and giue iust penaunce for sinne how is it possible they should doo this without exacte knowlege of entry of oure greeuous offences In deed a general confession such as is often made in diuine seruice to God or his priestes such as be Catholik doth some times take away the common infirmities of our sinfull life that our light trespasses be not imputed to vs or such as we haue so forgotten that we cannot by anie conuenient search call againe to our remembrance But other greater crimes and deadly sinnes for which the sacrament of discipline was instituted and the priestes iudgement seat erected in the Church are not discharged before God without seuerall contrition and distinct confession with readie in tent of the penitent to accomplish such fruites of penance as by the priest shall be appointed for the satisfying for his sinnes And what a marucilous disorder is brought into Christes Church by plaine flatterie of our selues herein whiles we holde that this generall confession is sufficient we see by experience of these our euill daies where there is now put no difference betwixt small offenders and most greeuous sinners no diuersitie of penance no more sorrow in one then in other no confession of the most wicked no more then of the smallest sinner or most honest liuer A common murtherer a filthie whoremunger a dailie drunkerd a false robber a greedie extorcioner confes as litle do as litle penance lament as litle yea a great deale lesse then the honest sort of people do for much more small and fewer faultes All men repose them-selues now of daies so much in Christes passion and there onelie no faith that they will neither confesse to God nor man neither sigh nor sorrow nor do satisfaction for their sinnes Well let all men be assured that God in the next world will not go by general Chapters but will haue an accompt of all our proper works and misdeedes till it come to our idle words and vaine thoughtes The which iudgement because Gods Church and ministers sentence to whome Christ gaue all iudgement of our sinnes in earth doth most cleerelie resemble we maie be out of doubt that the like particular discussing and examination of our owne selues here before his ministers must needes be had that we be not iudged of our Lord in the life to come FVLKE By seeing the varietie of sinnes though the Priest could see them as clearlie as he that committed them yea though he were present at the doing of them and did see all the circumstances of them he could neuer discerne which were by God remitted or not remitted except he could see the repentance of the sins according to which God doth either remitte or retain sinnes Therefore confession to this purpose is neither necessarie nor profitable For the further interest you claime you must bring better euidence then he therto you haue shewed forth or els we maie neuer yeelde it vnto you And greatlie I maruaile how you can affirme that the Priest can properlie pardon sinne when he can not to anie man pronounce pardon of his sinne except he be true lie contrite and penitent before god God onelie and the partie penitent are priuy to the con trition of his heart which in an Hipocrit with a thousand confessions maie be dissembled And I trow you will not saie that without vnfained contrition of the heart the priest maie pardon a sinner The doctrine of your masters is but with condition if the partie be contrite without counterfayting therefore he that can not pardon absolutely can much les pardon properlie Where you make generall confession auailable either for small and light offences or else for greater sinnes forgotten you speake without proofe and therefore your authoritite may be denied without doubt The disorder you speake of for lacke of shrift was greater when most mé went to shrift and not fearing the iugdement seat of God and thought they were sufficientlie discharged of their sinnes if they had powred them out into a priests lape or friers coule God be praised they that repose them selues moste in Christs passion and by the merites thereof beleeue to receiue forgiuenes of sinnes by faith in his bloode are more ready to confesse their vnworthines both before God man then any popish hypocrite that trusteth in the merit of his workes and his owne satisfaction for his sinnes and doe more sigh and sorrow for their sinnes although they be such as mans lawe cannot punish although they were knowne then they that whisper halfe an hower in a priestes eare for the sinnes of one whole yeare whereas one howers offences if they were particularie called to minde and repeated would aske longer time to confesse them We know that in the next world God will haue an account of al our misdeeds euen to our idle words thoughts therfore our wholl life ought to be a continuall meditation and profession of repentance yet we know by his word and assurance ofhis spirit that the same infinit multitude heape of our sinnes shal not be laid to our charge because out sauiour Christ is the lambe of God that hath taken them awaie and satisfied the iustice of God for them That Christ hath giuen al iudgement of our sinnes in earth to his Church and the ministers thereof you often affirme thereupon build vp your court of confession but by what wordes this may be prooued you are neuer able to shew For that text whose sinnes you forgiue c. imporeth no such manner of iudgement but an authoritie to pronunce a sentence declaratorie of Gods mercie in pardoning all them that trulie repent and of his iustice in punishing all them that obstinatly refuse the grace of God offered in the preaching of the Ghospel The examining iudgeing of our selues whch the Apostle requireth that we be not iudged of the Lord vrgeth vs not to commit our selues to the examination iudgement of othermen but to a diligent discussing of our owne conscience before god that we come not with hypocrisie or without dew regard of his presence and benefites to the participation of his sacraments ALLEN And this particular discussing Saint Paull meant when he commended vnto the Corinthians and by them commaunded all Christian men to prooue trie and iudge themselues especiallie afore the receipt of the blessed sacrament of Christes bodie and blood which requireth moste puritie of life in the receiuer that can be For to attempt to receiue the holie bodie of Christ before we haue in contrite manner confessed our selues and purged our consciences by the iudgement of Christes Church of the guilt of deadlie sinne is exceeding damnable to vs and much dishonour to
Purgatory could not at al belong to the iurisdiction of the Church nor 〈◊〉 person therein yet in the life of the party some peece of the debt thereof oral may be released afore hand whiles the partie is in the power of the Church and her discipline ad so it must needs be at euerie time that the Church pardoneth the partie of all satisfaction or anic portion there of recompensing the same by application of Christes satisfaction and his saints For the bond of Purgatory riseth as I haue said vpon some satisfaction and penance to be fulfilled or done in this life the which 〈◊〉 bue either by our paines accomplished to the satisfying of Gods righteausnes or o therwise pardoned there is no debt or bond of purgatorie at all the which is so cancelled by thy Church our Mother that it can not be required of God our father FVLKE The Popish Church 〈◊〉 more sabtillie if shee take not vpon her at all either directlie or indirectlie to heale bodilie sicknes by pardons not because men can not iudge so well for what cause they are laid vpon the diseased but because shee knoweth right well that though shee may in the darke bregg of such a matter yet hath shee in deede no such power nor authoritie neither in the fortaken or reprobate nor in any of Gods elect But the bonde of Purgatorie where of there is neither argument nor experience shee may be bolde to deale with al at her pleasure either in preuenting or releasing Wherein I maruell you make the matter so deintie seeing it is holden on 〈◊〉 side that the Pope hath authoritie by his pardon 〈◊〉 onelie to release some out of the paines of purgatorie but also to spoile all Purgatorie and to leaue it 〈◊〉 Your example of the paines of hell that can not neither by God nor man be helped or released hath an instance in your owne schoole of the Emperour Traiane eased of hell paines at the praier of Saint Gregorie if the tole be true Beside Augustinus de Ancona disputeth earnestlie that the Pope hath power in hell to mitigate or release the paines of the damned or at the lest of some of them and that the Church praieth for that ende Wherfore you agree not with your fellowes nor with the Popish Church which praieth for the deade vt liberentur de ore Leonis de profundo lacu that they be deliuered from the mouth of the Lion and from the deepe lake But be it as you saie yet your argument of the similitude of hell and Purgatorie is of no force because we know certainlie by the scriptures that there is hell but Purgatorie we finde not in the holie scriptures as Saint Augustine saith of any third place But by the scripture we finde the ende wherefore Purgatorie is imagined to be forged false blasphemous against the sacrifice of Christ his death and satisfaction which was once perfectlie performed by himselfe and not committed to the application of any other man ALLEN And this mooued alwaies the Church of God diligentlie to prouide of her tender mercie toward her louing Children that they should neuer departe out of this life in any debt of penance knowing well that the residue not satisfied here should be required at their handes afore God in the next life And therefore though many yeares of penance were prescribed to all such as did notorious crimes yet there was made euer lightlie a prouiso that at the houre of their extremitie they should haue peace and pardon and the Churches blessing in the holie sacrament and so departe free from bond of the Churches discipline as far as in her laie might be also discharged of the temporall scourge in the next life as no doubt they were if their remained no other impediment in thēselues So doth Nice Councell moste mercifullie prouide and so doth Ciprian and other fathers of the Primitiue Church that saw in their high wisedome the temporall paine to come much to hang on the parties satisfaction and the bond of the Churches enioyned penance And euen at this daie prouision is also made that no penance be giuen but vpon condition of his recouerie to any man that lieth at the extremitie of death lest he depart hence Ligatus bounde as Saint Augustine tearmeth it whereby the debt of his enioyned satisfaction might be required in Purgatory And nothing in the world prooueth more the Churches doctrine of purgatory Pardons then doth the continuall concorde and moste agreeable practize of these holie acts of binding and loosing vsed in her gouernement FVLKE The auncient Church in deede not acknowledging that shee had any authority to release any punishment to be suffered after this life determined alwaies the times of Canonicall penance with the ende of mens liues as I haue shewed before now you do acknowledge no lesse But if the Church had power after men were deade to release them of any paines shee needed not to haue beene so carefull in that point as shee was willing to comfort the penitent offenders at their depar ture as for the cancelling of all debt due for the satisfying of gods righteousnes which you did ascribe vnto the Church was the proper office of our sauiour Christ who performed that most necessarie worke to our eternal benefit once for all when he did put out the handwriting that was against vs in decrees and vtterlie abolished it nayling it to his crosse Finallie if nothing in the worlde prooueth more the Popish Churches doctrine of Purgatorie and pardons then the continuall practize of binding and loosing iustlie vsed in gouernement as you doe constantlie affirme it will easilie appeare that nothing in the world can prooue at all your blaspemous heresies of Purgatorie and pardons seeing the right vse of that power can be none other then according to the authoritie graunted by our sauiour Christ of binding and loosing but neither purgatorie nor pardon out of that authoritie in any lawful forme of argument can euer be concluded howsoeuer in loose talke or scribling ignorant men may be caried awaie with the flow of wordes where there is no pitho argument How the practize of pardons of these late hundred veares differeth from the vsage of the primitiue Church and in what sense such great numbers of yeares and daies be remitted by the Popes pardons THE 8. CHAP. ALLEN BVt here we muste note some diuersitie in giuing Pardons and preuenting Purgatorie paines betwixt the primitiue Church of olde and ours of these latter hundred yeares which did moste iustlie rise vpon the alteration of ment manners state of things For in the primitiue Church enioyned penance was so large for euery mortal crime that it might seeme verie answerable vnto the nature of the faulte And doubtlesse it may not otherwise be thought but the spirit of God did limitate satisfaction by the Canons as agreeable in all pointes to the debt of sinnes forgiuen which God
required for answere And therefore when they gaue a Pardon of the enioyned penance there could be no great doubt but the penitent beeing in zeale and deuotion qualified thereunto was therwith fullie pardoned of Purgatorie and the bonde of all paines to come in the next life But now of daies when penance and large satisfaction our nature declining euer to the worsse and deuotion continuallie decaying is not enioyned according to the olde Canons and but a small signe thereof remaining onelie in secret satisfction which is not of it selfe in this exceeding flow of sinne any thing agreeable to the faultes committed in this case to remit onelie the enioyned penance were not enough commonlie to preuent Purgatorie paines or to discharge the penitent of all satisfactory correction to come Whereby the Church by instigation of Gods spirit dealeth so much more mercifullie now then before because the people had neuer so much neede to hang on pardon as when their sinnes be greatest and their recompense lest Neuerthelesse such is the frowardnes of our time that they had rather take away penance contemptuouslie then haue it released by the power of god lawfullie For the great infirmitie of this world was the manifolde 〈◊〉 vsed and yet the meekenes of the Church which by the motion of God shee applieth her selfe vnto for the distresse of these daies and for the sinners sake is yet moste of sinners now commonlie contemned and of verie many that haue full great neede thereof as meere follie laughed at Yet the Church for her childrens reliefe bestoweth mercie still and a great deale lesse it is offended on that side then the other as no doubt the holie ghost guiding her affaires she standeth vpright on both sides FVIKE You doe not amisse to note a diuersitie betweene the practize of the auncient primitiue Church from the late Popish Church touching the Popes pardons and purgatorie for the moste auncient primitiue Church knew neither the one nor the other But you will haue the difference to arise moste iustlie vpon the alteration of mens manners and state of thing 's Touching the state of things it is so large a tearme that I know not what you meane thereby And I maruell what state of things that should be that should bring in a new religiō into the church of Christ as this of Popes pardons purgatorie is But the alteration of mens manners if it require another forme of discipline the change of manners from better to worsse requireth a discipline to be changed from milder to sharper and not as your Popish Church pretendeth to haue done from sharper to mil der and from milder to none at all For Canonicall penance satisfaction you haue changed to arbitrary penance satisfaction which you confes to be but a signe of the Canonicall nothing agreeable to the faultes committed And of the same arbitrarie satisfaction with all the desertes thereof you haue set the release to sale in your popes Pardons which in effect is nothing else but to sel a lisentiousnes of sinne when you haue taken awaie all feare of punishment therefroe eternall by shrift and temporall by pardons and pelting commutations without exacting true repentance and the true fruites thereof which appeere in amendment of life But to follow your vaine you say the penance enioyned in the primitiue Church was so large that it might seeme very answerable to the nature of the fault It is true that as the faultes were greater so the discipline was harder for satisfying of the Churches iudgement in accepting the offenders repentance and reconciliation to the Church But there was no meaning to satisfie the iustice of god vnsatisfied in the sacrifice of Christes death howsoeuer you make it a doubtles case as also you vse to doe euerie thing by bolde and stout asseueration which you are not able to prooue by anie sound or probable argument Well if it were as you saie there was no vse of pardons in the primitiue Church nor feare of purgatory paines which is a true conclusion although it be brought in vpon false principles But now you saie the Church by instigation of Gods spirit graunteth manie great Pardons because the people in respect of their great sinnes and small or no penance and satisfaction for them had neuer so much need to hang on pardon In deed the greater mens sinnes be the more need they haue that grace and mercie should abound for the release of them but then they must haue recourse to the fountaine of mercie and onelie ground where grace groweth euen the God of all consolation reconciled in Iesus Christ vnto all them that trulie repent of their sins purpose vnfeinedlie to lead a new life agreeable to his lawes and commandements But whereas the popish Church taking awaie in a manner all sorrow for sione and feare of punishment by offering satisfaction of pardons openeth a wide field vnto all wickednes and beside teacheth men to depend vpon the pardon of a man who commonlie selleth the same for aduauntage and disposeth it at his pleasure it is out of doubt she doth this by the instigation of the Deuill and not by the spirit of God For the spirit of God is the spirit of trueth of purenes of holines giuing no licence encouragement or consent to continue in sin as the doctrine of pardōs doth most manifestly the blasphemie of which is more to be detested then the follie to be laughed at of al them that be zelous of Christes glorie saluation of his people ALLEN She seeing therefore that remission of the enioyned penance could not discharge vs of the bond of the transitory paine to come being sure that it is no les lawfull to remit the paines due by the canons is enioyned effectually by the canons she giueth now 〈◊〉 not onely de 〈◊〉 penitentus but also de iniun 〈◊〉 of such penance as by the nature of the fault before god or the decrees of Councells should or had wont to be enioyned For there is no man that hath in penance prescribed either of fasting or praying or such like a 1000. or moe years and yet it is knowen that many such pardons are and haue been giuen long Neither could the 〈◊〉 of Purgatory wholy be discharged now as it was of old by the pardons of the primitiue Church in which onelie there was remission of the penance appointed because al penance thought reedful was then appointed except there were releasing also sometimes of al the penance or a great peece of the penance that shouldby law and reason haue beene inioyned FVLKE The man of sinne supreame head of the synagogue of Sathan vpon earth seeing that his glorie power and profit ariseth principally by the increase of the peoples sins hath first taken away al bridles of canonical repentance auncient discipline secondly giuen pardon not onelie of penance inioyned which is nothing in effect as you confes but also of penance to be inioyned
the beginning of this Chapter that the satisfaction limited by the Canons was agreeable in all points to the debt of sinnes forgiuen which God required for answer of his iustice Further you must remember that the Canons did limit times of penance not onelie for an act of sinne but also for customable continuance in such sinnes as you may see in the decrees of Iuo quoted by you before and in the Ancyran Councell Now if you will faine a man to be such a monster as that he haue committed all these sinnes for which the Canons doe limit times and haue continued in them also accustomablie yet by those Canons he could not deserue so many thousand yeares of penance as the Pope graunteth of pardon Nay if you make your Audit of the times limited sor all offences adding all the daies yeares and Lents prescribed in the Canons together you shall not finde the sūme of one thousand yeares of penance due to be inioyned if a man had commited al those sinnes Whereof it followeth that so many 1000 yeares as haue bin ordinarily graunted by the Popes pardons can haue no such meaning as your dreame of Audit and account surmiseth and so it remaineth that these numbers of yeares were multiplied onelie to set a greater price of the pardons so to robbe both the purses of the people and deceiue their soules For the old Canons neuer appointed anie time of penance for anie time exceeding the time of a mans life but 7. yeares 14. yeares 24. yeares c or to the end of a mans life at the most and alwaies the partie to be receiued at his end though he had not accomplished his time perfixed It is not the time appointed by the old canons therefore that can excuse so manie thousand yeares of pardon for paine to be suffered in purgatorie seeing you acknowledge the time by them limited to be limited by the spirit of god as agreeable in all points to the debt of sinnes forgiuen which God requirerth for answer of his iustice But blessed be god who hath taken sufficient satisfaction to answer his iustice in the obedience suffering of Iesus Christ which is our iustice in whome seeing we are made the iustiee of God we neither feare Allens Audit for purgatorie nor desire the Popes mercie for pardon ALLEN Neither is it necessarie for the due paiment of that great debt of so manie yeares that the paine of purgatorie should endure so long or so manie yeares as had bene necessarie for the accomplishing of his penance in this life For the might the force the hougenes the excesse and the nature of the paine in the next world is so fearefull and so great as Saint Augustine often noteth that a great deale lesse time sufferance of the same is answerable to much more in the world and this present life For what comparation is there berwixt a daies fasting here a daies punishment in purgatorie better it were surely to suffer a hundred yeares such penance as the Church prescribeth in this mortall life that hath in it much worldlie ease and comfort for the release of the inioyned paine then to abide one daie or wecke in so greeuous a torment as the holie Doctours and all the Church holdeth Purgatorie to be Therfore to forgiue such a greeuous sinner in the latter end of his life receiued to mercie as we haue now spoken of a thousand or two thousand yeares of penance is as much in effect and nature of the termes as to remit and release him of so much punishment or the debt and bond of so much punishment in purgatorie as is proportionall and correspondent to so manie daies or years of penance as the penitent in this life was bound vnto by the Canons of the Church or the iust inioyning of his Ghostlie Father For the Pardons measure the matter not by the limites of Purgatorie the bonds borders or waie of limitation whereof the Church knoweth not but by the yeares and times of penance prescribed to sinners by the holie Canons vpon the bond wherof Gods iustice temporall in the next world doth as I haue prooued much depend To be short then plaine to giue a pardon of a 10001. or 2000. yeares or moe if the graunt goeth so is as much to saie as to forgiue so much punishment as might be answerable for so great penance not fullfilled in this life As if I were behinde with the Church and indebted to God hard before my death of a hundreth daies fasting in which case I cannot recompence if my Bishoppe then or the chiefe head of all the Eccle siasticall Hierachie doe forgiue me twenty of the said daies then my punishment shal be so much lesse in Purgatorie not by twenty daies I saie of Purgatorie paines but by as much as in force of satisfaction there is answerable to twentie daies fast here So that the Church measuring her mercies by the yeares of penance deserued by the law in this life or else where taketh effect not onely in this life where there cannot be so manie daies in our short time but especially in preuenting Purgatorie paines where there may well be punishment answerable in a verie short time to all the daies prescribed by the measures of the lawe and discipline of our present daies in the world FVLKE If the fire of Purgatorie be so much hotter then this elementall fire as this is hotter then a fire painted on a wall as some of your owne Poetes haue fained you maie adde this imaginarie proportion of greatnes of paine against length of time And whoe can let you to imagine what you list seeing you require to be credited vpon your bare worde without authoritie of scripture or witnes of the auncient Doctors But the holie Doctors you saie and all the Church holdeth purgatorie to be so greeuous a torment and Saint Augustine noteth it often namelie in Psal. 37. Verilie Saint Austen in that place saith that the fire by which some that builde strawe hay c. vpon the fundation Christ shal be more greeuous then anie thing that anie man can suffer in this life but else where he can say nothing of certaintie of the fire of Purgatorie whether anie such fire after this life be or no as de fide operibus c. 6. de oct dulcit qu. 1. as I haue shewed more at large in confutatiō of your booke of purgatorie You quote Origen also but I knowe not how nor what to finde by your quotation but certaine it is that Origen knew not the Popes purgatory although he allegorize of a certaine purgatory which neither the papists themselues do alow and it teacheth the heresie wherewith he is charged that the deuills and all wicked persons at length shall be saued To conclude the old canons graunting remission to euerte man that is preuented by death at his last end had no meaning of anie recompence of yeares and daies in Purgatorie as without all
that they haue any such power of healing bodelie diseases It is a better reason that you alledge out of Saint Augustine that remission of sinnes in the Church respecteth the iudgement to come but that he speaketh there of any temporal iudgement after this life you are not able to prooue Neither doth the citing of the text of Saint Paull I. Cor. II. helpe you which he citeth to prooue that temporall paines are laide vpon men in this life to them whose sinnes are done awaie that they should not be reserued to the ende as his wordes are plaine in that wholl Chapter Magis enim propter futurum iudicium fit remissio peccatorum In hac autem vita c. For remission of sins ie made rather for the iudgement to come For in this life it preuaileth so much which is written a heauie yoke vpon the sons of Adam from the daie of their comming forth of their mothers wombe vnto the day of their buriall into the mother of all thus we see euen litle children after the lauer of regeneration to be tormented with the affliction of diuerse euills that we may vnderstand that all which is doue by the healthfull sacraments doth pertaine rather to the hope of good thinges to come then to reteining or obteining things present Manie euills also seeme to forgiuen heere and to be reuenged with no punishments but the paines of them are reseruea vntill afterwarde For not in vaine is that called properlie the daie of iudgement when the iudge of the quicke and the deade shall come As on the contrarie side some things are reuenged heere and yet if they be remitted verilie in the worlde to come they shall not hurt Wherfore of certaine temporall paines which are laid vppon sinners in this life in them whose sinnes are done awaie that they should not be reserued vnto the ende the Apostle saieth for if we iudged our selues we should not be iudged of the Lord but when we are iudged of the Lord we are chastened that we should not be damned with this worlde Thus it is plaine by Saint Augustines iudgement that Saint Paull speaketh of temporall paines laied vppon sinners in this life to bring them to repentance not of temporal iudgement to be exercised after this life But you meane not that Popes or Bishops pardons should alwaies take away bodelie sicknes because Christ did not so vnto ai Nay rather because they are not able to heale a sore finger in any one man For Christ healed as many as he would if the Pope haue Christs power why should he not as well heale whome he will Your similitude that as Christ tooke away temporall paines so may Popes and priests holdeth not for there is great odds betweene Christ and his seruants he did what he would they may doe no more then he hath giuen chem power and charge And for releasing of times of repentance appointed to satisfie the Church they may by power giuen from him but for the releasing of debt to be paied in the world to come he gaue them neither authority nor cōmaundement That the priest doth dailie heale in your sacrament of aneling it is an impudent lie For first they anoint none in their dailie practize but such as are in dispaire of life of whom if any recouer by the wilof God it is sacriledge to impure it to the power of the priests anointing who hauenot the gift of healing as the elders of the Apostles Church had whome S. Iames willeth to be sent for to heale the diseased ALLEN But in Saint Paull we haue inuincible proofe of the authoritie and iurisdiction of Bishops and princivali pastcurs touching as well the power of enioyned pename and satisfaction for sinnes committed as the lawfull power of pardoning the same which before was enioyned and so in one fact of the Apostle a cleare practize of binding and loosing He first bound him by excommunication that had so greeuouslie offended and to shew what a terrible torment this kinde of panishment is and how much it is to be dred he maketh it euident by a slraunge corporall vexation that all Chrillian men might conceiue the miserie of those persons which be excommunicated hereafter when the externall signe and miraculous torment should ceasse in the Church I wili reporte the matter fullie There was amongst the Corinthians one of reputation that kept vnlawfullie his fathers wife the which being knowne to their Apostle Saint Paul who then was absent srom them and being accounted of him as in deede it was an exceeding grieuous fact and notorious he gaue in charge to the Church of Corinth to take the person that had so offended as excommunicated that is to saie to be separated from the sacraments the seruice and common fellowship of Saints But see with what a maiestie and might of operation with what force of wordes and authoritie of his calling with what a kinde of punishment Christes officer here correcteth the offender Thus runneth his determinate sentence on the offender that all the worlde may take heede and wonder at the Churches authoritie and condemne the vaine voices of them that doe restraine the power of Gods ministers onelie to the preaching of the Gospell I beeing absent in bodie but present in spirit haue alreadie giuen iudgement as well as if I were present that the person that hath thus wickedlie wrought should be deliuered vpto Sathan in the vertue of our Lorde Christ Iesus you there being gathered with my spirit in the name of our said Lord Christ Iesus and all for the vexation of his flesh that his soull may be safe in the daie of our Lord Iesus Christ. This in effect is the Apostles sentence on that incestuous person wherby he was temporallie tormented by the force of Saint Pauls power of binding sinners giuen by Christ and exercised no otherwise as you may see but in Christs vertue holie name Where it may be noted for a strange 〈◊〉 of mans word that the deuill himse fe should be therby appointed to torment a sinners bodie not as he would but as far as the diuine Magistrate shall limit him Diabolus enim quia ad hoc paratus est vt auerses à Deo 〈◊〉 in potestatem audita sententia corripit eos The 〈◊〉 saith Saint Ambrose who is alwaies readie to take them to his power that are turned from God sireight as soone as he heareth the sentence pronounced vpon sinners he doth afflict and correct them As it may also appeere by our Sauiours wordes in the Gospell of a woman that had spiritum infirmitatis the spirit of infirmitie whome the deuill had eighteene yeares together fast bound in sickenes for her sinnes to whome also Christ gaue a pardon by imposition of his holie handes Where we may haue an other example of his mercie in loosing the temporall band and punishment appointed for sinne But let vs turne to Saint Pauls patient whome we left by the key of the