sinning and so never sin But if thou say its impossible so to resist and that he must needs give way to temptations and so commit sin Then is this not to be counted a sin which thus is not willingly committed but as an enforced passion and is of the same accompt with a Rape which a woman may suffer without any guilt of sin section 52 T.L. Whether though none of our Hearers in this life either are or can be free from the reliques and remainders of sin Ro. 7.23,24 yet whether many of them are not perfectly freed from the condemnation of sin Rom 8 1 33,34 yea so far from the dominion and power of sin Rom 6 14 that though sin be in them yet they are not in sin but that we may comfortably believe that testimony of them which the Scripture gives of Iob Iob 1 1. That they feare God and eschew evil And that notwithstanding their human frailties and infirmities yet neverthelesse their hearts as the heart of Asa was are perfect all their dayes 2. Chron. 15.17 so perfect as to be sincere and upright Answ Concerning the righteousnesse and perfection of your Hearers I Answer That by their fruits they are known And if they be not free from sin then not dead to sin and so under the Law and not under grace Rom. 7.6 Rom. 6 18 22 In Rom. 3 23,24 Paul declareth his warring estate at which time he was carnal sold under sin verse 14 brought into the captivity to the law of sin verse 23 At which time he also cryeth out Oh wretched man that I am who shall deliver me from the body of this death But the same Paul in other places doth witness a far different estate from this for thus he saith When we were in the flesh verse 5 Ye are not in the flesh Rom. 8.9 For the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death Rom. 8 2 How can we that are dead to sin live any longer therein Rom. And if Christ be in you the body is dead because of sin Rom. 8.10 See also Rom. 7.6 From these and many other places that might have been alleaged it is most evident That Paul in this seventh Chapter to the Romans treateth of his warfare of the condition he then was in while yet he was not wholly dead to sin nor had yet obtained the victory over the carnal part and so was not yet delivered from under the thunders and tempest of Sinai's condemnation section 53 T.L. Whether any of you received the mystery of Christ by Revelation the same way that Paul did who received it by Christs speaking to him in the Hebrew tongue compare Eph. 3.3,4,5 with Acts 26.14 Answ This seemeth to me a very silly quaere as though the language in which God speaketh when he calls any one to the Ministery or other service were of any consideration or moment as in respect to the validity of such a Call and authority thereby received Let the Reader compare these two Scripturers in the quaere and he shall find the latter end of this question yet worse than the beginning section 54 T.L. Whether those faithful men at Ephesus to whom Timothy committed those things that he had heard of Paul 2 Tim. 22. and 3.14 And whether those Elders that were ordained in Creet by Titus whom Paul left there for that purpose Tit. 1.5 might not be truly stiled Ministers made by Jesus Christ i. e. by Christs appointment though they were not Apostles Prophets or Evangelists Answ 1. To that of Timothy I Answer 1. They were to be faithful men 2. It follows not That this committing of things heard c unto them did make and constitute such men ipso facto Christs Ministers 3. Timothy was able to judge who were fit and able To teach others also Did such a man or men as Timothy was give any of you commission to teach others Of this before Answ 2. Neither doubt I but Titus had good Authority to Ordain those Elders so as the place importeth And had your Ordainers as good also I should as little doubt theirs too Answ 3. If your Ordainers had Ordained such Ministers as Paul there describeth and appoints to be Ordained Tit. 1.6,7,8,9,10 I believe I should readily own and embrace them For such had been blameless sober just holy temperate and not given to Filthy Lucre c. which are such vertues and graces we cannot yet see in any of you no not though we stand never so near you Whereas the contrary vices are so vigorous in you that you yield a bad scent wherever you come with them that have senses incorrupt to smell it Answ 4 And is it not rather to be said That this ordaining of Elders was not a constituting of Ministers simply but an assigning or appointing of them that were such before to some new and special or particular charge or service The word is as well if not better englished Settle Place Also this sence the cohering words do favour In every City He saith not of such or such a place or Church nor yet Elders simply Finally It 's here to be remembred what kind of Ordination was in use in those Primitive times For this see Sect. 3. section 55 T.L. Whether Christs promise That he would be with his Apostles unto the end of the World Matth 28.19,20 can be any otherwise made good then in his being present with ordinary Pastors that should succeed in the Church to the end of the world Answ If the place be so to be understood as the Quaerent taketh it then where were those Pastors and Successors to the Apostles and how was God with them for so many hundreds or years even during all the time of Popish Apostacy which began even in the Apostles age But your main business is to prove your selves to be true Pastors of Christ which ye never can do so long as ye continue Hirelings See Iohn 10.12 section 56 T.L. Whether ordinary Pastors and Teachers are not as well said to be given for the Work of the Ministry c as well as Apostles Prophets Evangelists Eph 4 11,12 and that till we all come to the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ vers 13. which is not cannot be till the end of the world compare Ephes 4.11,12,13 with 1 Cor. 12.28 Answ 1 I deny your distinction of Pastors into ordinary and extraordinary taking the word Pastor as distinct from Apostle c This is your case ye are asham'd to claim to your selves the name of Apostle or Pastor in a Scripture sense which you seem to call extraordinary This one name therefore ye craftily divide into two that being driven from the possession of the one i. e. exttaordinary ye may yet as a reserve have the other to flye to imitating herein after a sort those Spirits that being commanded to go out of the man prayed they might have leave
to pass into the Swine Answ 2. Ye cannot away to hear of the Saints arrival to the measure of Christs stature Why Because ye your selves are so short thereof Also well know ye in your selves That as many as are come hither or fair in the way thereto be now tall enough to over-look all your deceits and failings Answ 3. I demand Whether All the Saints shall come to this neasure all at one time that is as you say at the end of the world If ye say Yea then it seems after your sense the Saints shall neither till then come to the unity of the Faith or the knowledge of the Son of God Forasmuch as both these are coupled together with the other which were very absurd to affirm taking the end of the world in that sense you take it and openly contradictory to many other places of Scriptures Whosoever is truly in the Faith is one with all others who are likewise in the same Faith The Beleevers of old time were all of one heart and of one soul Acts 4.32 were not these come to the Unity of the Faith also in the way of attaining to the measure of Christs stature c. The one Faith being in many makes them all of one heart mind and consent We are one bread fellow-members of the same body See also 1 John 1.7 Again how can a man be a true Believer that is not in some measure come to the knowledge of the Son of God See Iohn 17.3 1 Cor. 2.2 Phil 3.10 2 Thes 1.8 1 John 2.3 2.13 c. Now that all these things namely Unity of the Faith Knowledge of the Son of God and Coming to be a Perfect man are referred to one and the same time i e. the time of this life with coming to the measure of the stature of Christs fulness is very plain in that they are all alike joyned together in one form and manner of speech under the word until See more of this in Section 49 6. section 57 T L. Whether Magistrates are not truly styled Ministers of God though ordained by men Answ Magistrates indeed are Gods very Ministers but in Civil not in a Spiritual accompt And yet if the Magistrate so well as ye now account him should once abandon your Function to voluntary Contribution you would turne your Tale I beleeve section 58 T L. Whether those that say none other things than those which Moses and the Prophets did say should come Acts 26.22 and that determine to know nothing yea to Preach nothing but Jesus Christ and him Crucified and that according to the Scriptures may not be rightly styled to speak as the Oracles of God Answ They only are to be said to speak as the Oracles of God who speak by inspiration or revelation of the holy Ghost or else in the Light speak those things which themselves have handled and tasted both seasonably and aptly for the edification or benefit of the hearers But they that are in the flesh cannot please God Rom. 8 8. whatever they say or determine to know or preach And though ye may use the words of Scripture yet cannot ye thus be covered the Tempter so did and that cunningly too and yet got he thereby no thank at all at Christs hands No more do you neither by Preaching long Sermons compiled of words stoln in like manner out of the Scriptures and other Books T.L. That these are very vertues c. And yet we affirm That through Grace some yea many of us have attained to this That even the piercing eye of malice it self cannot see so far as justly to charge us Answ The eye of wisdome then sees farthet than the eye of malice for this sees you full of iniquities Now the eye of malice is of your side and therefore not so apt to charge you how far soever it may see into your guiltiness yea even this piercing eye hath a mote in it self and therefore cannot see a beam in yours T.L. That our Gifts and Conversations are not at least in a competent measure suitable to that high Calling whereunto we are called However not unto us not unto us you mean not here of Tythes and Augmentations c. but unto our God's name be the praise Answ Our Gifts If ye were indeed wise yet your Gifts would blind your eyes Your Conversations they are like a menstruous garment whereof is no part remaining clean but is wholly defiled Your Calling is from the Serpent and your Gifts and Conversations are suitable to it But why is your Calling an high Calling Because it sets you in the Pulpit on high It 's certain were it not for Tythes and rich Livings the most of your number would turn the deaf ear to this High Calling and say they never heard sound thereof But how bountiful ye are to God! To his Name be the praise A few empty words without any true ground Go offer unto God the firstlings of your flock and the fat thereof until ye so do the Lord will have no more respect to your Sacrifice than he had unto his who for envy slew his Brother a vice most truly yours section 60 T.L. Whether when the Obedience and satisfaction of Christ our Surety unto the Law and Justice of God is by God the Father freely imputed to us the righteousness of the Law may not in the Apostles sense Rom 8.4 be truly said to be fulfilled in us or by us 2 Cor. 5 19,21 Answ Here may the Reader take a taste whereby to judge what kind of Interpreters ye are of the Scriptures the which where they fit not your purpose or fansie ye stick not to wrest contract extend at the beck of each frivolous Opinion just as if they were a Nose of VVax But Paul hath sufficiently declared what he means when he saith That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us not out of us in that he adds immediately after Who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit And they that so walk do verily fulfil the righteousness of the Law By these words therefore he expresseth the mean or way wherein or whereby such righteousness is fulfilled section 61 T.L. VVhether those that are said 1 Cor. 14. to speak by immediate revelation were not extraordinary Officers and such as continued only for a time in the Church of God and its first planting and are now ceased Answ VVhile the Churches did abide in the Truth and wayes of God so long was God also with them and they did feel the movings of his Spirit and spake accordingly as of it they were moved But when they began to forsake their first love and to joyn with the whore and false Prophets and to worship the Beast then did God also justly with-draw himself from them then did their Sun begin to set and the shadows of Night ensued Now heard they not the VVord of the Lord nor the workings of his Spirit did they perceive but became
theirs to give nor then were not yet in being neither were they capable of so much as being certainly known whether as to their kindes or quantities Again it s in the choice of the owner of the land whether he will manure occupy it or not If he will not then are there no Tythes payable for or out of it which is a point considerable For now were it granted indeed to have been in our Ancestors power to break and transmit into posterity the duty or obligation of paying such Tythes as are above specified yet would it notwithstanding remaine in our own power stil wholly to avoid all effect thereof and this without being lyable to be punished or questioned by the Clergy Moreover it is to be marked that our fore-fathers who were Papists did little intend when they gave their Tythes that they should go and redound to the maintenance much lesse the luxury of Protestant Ministers so called vvho vvith such cruel hatred and detestation they persecuted even to bitter deaths and torments And one of our great ancient Lavvs saith Let the will of the giver be observed But if the Querent respect to latter times neither here do I knovv of any effectual Lavv yet inforce for payment of Tythes As for the late Ordinances of Parliament tending hereto its true that they vvere able to make a great noise siting the Parliament But vvhen once the Parliament vvas dissolved they could not novv longer lavvfully be discharged So you see you are disovvn'd both by Lavv and Gospel so called as to your pretence about Tythes vvhether vvill ye next go ye vvandring stars whether will ye fly ye Clouds without vvater Now as concerning withholding of Tythes from parish Ministers the forecited Iohn Wicklife seemeth not to have smelt any such Ananias and Saphira like spirit in them that should so do For thus he reasoneth in his complaint aforecited Therefore if our Prelates or other Priests whatever they be * Blemisht blecked by sacrifice of Maumetry as with covetise that is openly sacrifice of false Gods and other great sins as pride Simony Manquelling Glotany Drunkennesse and Lechery by the same skill i.e. Reason Tythes and offerings should be withdrawn from them by Gods Law and be given to poor needy men at ensample of rightful Toby and therefore it is lawful to Parishioners to withhold their Tythes for open fornication of the Curate and turn them into better use And much more they may ought to withdraw their Tythes for great sinns and open as for Simony that is Heresy as Popes Law saith and for covetousness that is worshiping of Gods as holy writ saith and for Pride envy and Gluttony and drunkenness sith by Gods Law and mans Law God curseth such mens blessings and prayers And a little after the first if Curates do not their office in word and in ensample that God commandeth then their subjects i.e. their Parishioners are not bound to pay them Tythes and offerings since the principal cause for which Tythes and offrings should be paid is wanting the paying of Tythes should cease Moreover in the same Article he thus determineth But suppose that such Parish Churches i.e. Benefices were Lawfully gotten yet sith they be superfluous to such men the Tythes and offrings should be given to poor needy men as St. Ierom and the Popes Law teacheth It seemes the Pope himselfe here to have been more modest and sober then to pronounce so black a Iudgement as you in effect have done against them that with-hold their Tythes from the Parish Curates or Ministers for he alloweth the Parishioners when the Curate or Priest hath superfluity of liveings to bestow their Tythes to other uses and this without purpose of ensnaring them in the guilt of an Ananias and Saphira-like sin or casting them into prison Concerning Moses respect to the recompence of reward I say that between your respect and his is a very great difference His was to that which was eternal yours to that which is temporal His was to Heavenly glory yours to filthy lucre Neither is it to be thought that Christ would have stiled the false shepheard an Hireling if his respect had been only to the recompence of eternal life as Moses's was and not chiefly to the Tythe of Lamb and Wool c. as yours is T. L. whether those whom Iude condemns for runing greedily after the error of Balaam for reward were not the same with those that perished in the gain-saying of Corah whose provoaking sin was as some of yours is an opposition of and rising up against authority in Church and State An. If the querent had told us who this same were that so rise up against authority c. He had done us some kindnesse for such do we mark and avoid Now who they be and of what colour that are opposers of Authority in State may easily bee knowne Read but King Iames's the second Epit. BASILICON DORON Doctor BAYLY'S History of Iohn Calvin but especialy the relation of Christopher Love's Conspiracy and thou shalt find that there lodgeth in this portion of men a spirit of pride stubbornness and rebellion not much inferior to the Jesuites Hereunto also may be added the †In his Disp with Rivet testimony of Hugo Grotius which is as I remember to this purpose viz. There is never any stir or rebellion in the Christian world but they who be called Ministers of the Gospel are chief contrivers or Promoters thereof Where was your obediene to Authority then when you not only refused to take the Engagement but preached aginst it then you refused to observe days of publike Thanksgiving Humiliation And this well know all Christian Princes And that he did not here exclude the men of your Judgement may easily appeare if we but consider the man with whom he hath there to do and to whose reproach he spake it Now as to them that be called quakers where and what opposition do they make against Authority both in Church and State Is not this indeed Nero-like who burnt the City of Rome and then laid the blame upon the Christians Name if you can one man of our way that hath done any wrong to others Contrariwise what kind of harme and injury have they not received from others especialy from the men of your Function yet when did they render evil for evil when did your cruelty overcome their patience Thrusting Beating Haleing and almost death it selfe do they many times endure at your hearers hands and fists and that before your very faces and even in your Solemn Assemblies yet who of them made ever any resistance in such case or did open his lips so much to revile And is not both this a right Christian spirit and that such a one as the Devil himselfe would be abasht to defend But wherin do some of ours make opposition or rise up against Authority c. Do they not ever come when the Magistrate sends
15 14 The Saints are Christs friends and therefore do they whatsoever Christ commandeth them and they that so do are perfect 3 The Saints are Gods workmanship Eph 2 10 But the workmanship of God perfect Deut 32 9 4 He that neither sinneth nor can sin is perfect But such are they that are born of God 1 Joh 3 9 1 Joh 5 18 5 He Christ gave some Apostles and some Prophets and some Evangelists c. for the perfecting of the Saints Eph 4 12 13 Did not those Apostles Prophets c. attain the end for which they were given Or else did their Ministery suspend its operation and effect until the last day 6 It 's possible for the Saints to come unto a perfect man to the measure of the stature of Christs fulness Eph 4 13,14 And they that be here be surely perfect Now that these things are all attainable in this life and that also many years before the hour of death is evident by what is immediately subjoyned viz. That we henceforth be no more Children tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of Doctrine by the slight of men c. It 's said that henceforth that is From the time of their being a perfect man and of being come to the measure of the stature of Christs fulness else will the sense be broken jarring and altogether incoherent And surely all those things that follow Henceforth do imply a much larger time than the last day Had Paul here been of the Querents mind That perfection comes not till the last day would he have said That henceforth that is That after the Saints be perfect and be come to the measure of Christs stature They be no more children tossed too and fro c. For what space time or danger or possibility could he then have conceived of their being tossed too and fro with every winde of Doctrine c. This is after the last day on which day the querents supposes that the Saints are to be made perfect and not before 7. If any man offend not in word the same is a perfect man Iam 3 2 Now it 's impossible that there should be such men as Iames here describeth Or did he here only propose the Idaea or Patern of a perfect man which never yet had nor never was to have actuall being This were rather to make him a Platonick Philosopher then one of Christs faithful Ministers and a nugatory speculator rather then a teacher of things to be done 8. Now the God of peace make you perfect in good works to do his will Heb 13 20 21 If we be not made perfect till the last day what space of time then remaineth wherein after one is perfect he may do the will of God Think ye that this prayer regardeth only the last day Was it needful to pray that believers might be made perfect in good works to do Gods will on the last day Would you not have Gods will to be done before that day See 2 Cor 13.1 Finally brethren farewell be perfect be of good comfort be of one mind live in peace c Are all these things not attainable before the last day Or are some before and some or one not till then 9 Mark the perfect man behold the upright for the end of that man is peace Psalm 37 37. Do these words so sound as if David held no man perfect untill the last day Is not the peaceable end here spoken of the effect or concomitant of perfection But if no man be perfect till the last day what sense can be gathered from these words What end is the perfect man to have at or after the last day And who is then to mark it 10. Heb 7.19 For the Law made nothing perfect but the bringing in of a better hope did c He doth not say shall that at the last day Again Heb. 10.14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified They therefore that are sanctified are likewise Perfected But men are sanctified before the last day Also Heb. 12.22.23 But ye are come unto Mount Sion c. and to the spirits of just men made perfect c. Now how could the Saints be then come to the spirits of just men made perfect If it be true that none be made perfect till the last day 11. Let us therefore as many as be Prefect be thus minded Phil. 3.15 Now if neither Paul himselfe nor any other were at this time perfect this exhortation were void of all sense and reason For if none were then perfect whom did he then exhort 12. Howbeit we speak Wisdom among them that are perfect 1. Cor. 2.6 Now if none can be perfect till the last day then will it necessarily follow that either Paul spake Wisdom among them that were not perfect or else among none at all But both these are false Objection Paul himselfe professes that he was not made perfect Philip. 3.12.13 Ans The perfection there spoken of is to be understood of a certain degree or measure of perfection which Paul at that time had not attained unto and not of perfection simply considered Otherwise this place should contradict other both many evident Scriptures yet doth the same Paul say in the following words But I follow after if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ and in Vers 14. He saith I presse toward the mark c. Now did he follow after and presse towards this degree of perfection in faith or not in faith If in faith then did he believe it possible to be attained unto See more of this point hereafter 13. Finally the Scriptures give this testimony of Noah Job and others that they were perfect men Gen. 6.9 Job 1.8 and this was long time ago section 50 T. L. Whether can you rationally expect that our hearers should be more perfect then the eleven Apostles Answ I grant indeed 't were very absurd to expect your Hearers should be perfect while they are under such imperfect Teachers Those stars of the highest magnitude in the Church Answ And yet the Priests Scribes and Pharisees could not abide them but sought to pluck them out of their Firmament Whom yet Christ upbraideth with unbelief and hardnesse of heart Answ There is a childhood in grace they had not as yet received the Promise of the Father which was the gift of the Spirit neither were their understandings yet opened c. Ioh. 15 26. 20.22 Luk. 24 45,49 Act. 2.1,2,3,4 section 51 Ob. Eccles 7.20 James 3.2 1 Joh. 1.8 Answ I do not deny but he that is a Saint may commit sin but ye the that abideth in Christ sinneth not Resist the Devil and he will flye Here I demand whether it be possible to resist the devil and all other temptations to sin If thou say it 's possible at all times so to resist then it follows That a Saint may forbear at all times from