Selected quad for the lemma: spirit_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
spirit_n	fit_a	young_a	youth_n	40	3	8.1235	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A88105	Light for smoke: or, A cleare and distinct reply by Iohn Ley, one of the Assembly of Divines at Westminster, to a darke and confused answer in a booke made, and intituled The smoke in the temple, by Iohn Saltmarsh, late preacher at Brasteed in Kent, now revolted both from his pastorall calling and charge. Whereto is added, Novello-mastix, or a scourge for a scurrilous news-monger.	Ley, John, 1583-1662.; C. D. Novello-mastix.	1646 (1646)	Wing L1883; Thomason E333_2; Thomason E333_3; ESTC R200742	90,377	128

besides your disparagement of old men I have some what to say to you for mistaking and misapplying the words of the Prophet Ioel 2.28 brought in by the Apestle Act. 2.17 first for the defence of old men you make as if it were safer to hearken to young men then to them as if the young men were wiser counsellours then the old I grant before-hand that sometimes there may be young men as Ioseph Daniel and Samuel who may have a spirit of wisdome and thereby may be fit to give counsell and to governe the wayes of the aged but setting aside singular and extraordinary examples compare age youth in the generall and the resolution of reason and example will be that old men are fitter to direct and guide the young then contrariwise for in old men the passions and perturbations of the minde which give great impediment to prudence for they are to reason as fumes and vapours about a candle which dimme the light thereof are more subdued then in young men Besides experience which is both the parent of wisdome of which it is begotten and the nurse which bringeth it on to a further growth and proficiency falls not within the fathome of a young mans reach but of the old man hence is it that Solomon saith The hoary head is a ●rowne of glory if it be found in the way of righteousnesse Prov. 16.31 and that by the law the younger sort were to rise up before the hoary head and to honour the face of the old man Levit. 19.32 For with the ancient is wisdome and in length of dayes understanding Iob 12.12 And hence it is that the Counsellours and Governours of Common-weales are called Senators and their Assembly * Senatus nomen dedit aetas nam i●dem patres sunt Quintil. Instit orat l. 1. c. 6. p. 38. Senatus from age and in the old Testament they are called the Elders of Israel and in the New those whose function requireth of them a wisdome of the best kinde and highest degree for it must be such a wisdome as must goe beyond his subtiltie who deceiveth all the world Rev. 12.6.9 are called Presbyters a word in Greeke of the same signification with Elders in English And for example you cannot be forgetfull of the Story of R●h●boams old and young Counsellours 1 King 12. nor what prelation is given to the old above the young in that Story and while you remember it you should not sway the preeminence on the young mens side against the old men as you have done Besides the Scriptures there be manifold instances against your fence in the difference of age and youth I will minde you of some as that of a Tuum est undecunque evocare ascribere tibi exemple Mosis senes non juvenes Ber. de Cons lib. 4. cap. 4. col 886. Bernard counselling Eugenius to call to him Counsellours as Moses did that were old men not young men and of the Lacedemonians of whom b Apud Lacedaemonies ii qui amplissimuns magistratum gerunt ut sunt sic etiam appellantur senes Cicer. Cat● Major seu de Senect Tom. 3 ●p●rum Cicer. pag. 408. in fol. Cicero saith that they who are the chiefe Magistrates whose authoritie is of most ample extent as they are so they are called old men And among the Romans aged prudence was so much honoured that c Vt quisque atate antecellit ita sententia principatum abtine● Ibid. pag. 415. in the Colledge of Sages Sentences were partly valued by senioritie And there is good ground for this great estimation of old men d Maximas Respub per adolescentes labefast●s à senibus suste●●ates resti●●as reperiatis Ibid. p. 408. for great Common-weales as he sheweth which have been ruined by young men have been repaired and restored by old men Such as Agesilaus was whom though among the vulgar Egyptians when he came into their Countrey and they saw no stately traine about him but an old gray beard laid on the grasse by the seaside a little man that looked simply on the matter in a thread bare gowne fell a laughing at him yet the chiefe Captaines and Governours of King Tachis honourably received and were marvellously desirous to see him for the great fame that went abroad of him and he was famous for his wisdome both Military and Civill as c Plutarch in Agesil pag. 629.630 Plutarch reporteth in the Story of his life To him I could adde many examples of later time and neerer home I will name only one and that is my Reverend brother f See his booke de Diphthongis aut Bivocatibus Mr. Tho. Gataker who though he have been an old man a great while hath given of late since his sicknesse and secession from the Assembly such a specimen of a pregnant apprehension and faithfull memory as may assure a judicious Reader that albeit his body be weake his braine is not so though his head have been long gray his wit is yet greene and flourishing Secondly Now for mine other exception against your comparison In it you not onely give preeminence to young men before old but preferre them in this that young men see visions of reformation and old men dreame dreames of it onely wherein you wrap up three particulars which you take for granted but it will be an harder taske then you imagine to prove any one of them First That Revelations by visions are more excellent then those that come by dreames Secondly That visions ascribed to young men are denied to old men Thirdly That young men have visions of reformation old men onely dreame of it whereas First g Duo Revelationum modi per somnium scilicet per visionem imaginariam vigilanti objectam non se superant mutuo ratione excellentioris potentiae vel praestantioris modi cognoscendi cum uterque perficiatur in imaginativa Jacob. Bonfrer in Numb 12.6 pag. 78● col 1. some learned men have resolved that visions are not more excellent then dreames and the reasons may be First because in Scripture they are brought in as Revelations though different yet without prelation of the one before the other as Numb 12. If there be a Prophet among you I the Lord will make my selfe known unto him in a vision and speake unto him in a dreame Num. 12.6 Secondly as great matters are represented in dreames as in visions as the affliction of the children of Israel in Egypt and their deliverance was revealed to Abraham in a dreame Gen. 15.12 and the intercourse betwixt heaven and earth in the ministery of Angels was represented to Jacob in a dreame Gen. 28.12 It was in a dreame that Solomon had the singular wisdome imparted to him 1 King 3.5 By a dreame was the conception of Iesus Christ by the Holy Ghost revealed to Ioseph Matth. 1.20 and the plot of perdition against him with the way to prevent it Matt. 2.13 Thirdly as for the matter so

say certainly you intend a terrible Government though you speake to me you doe not meane it of me for you have said * Smoke p. 23. before What if such as your selfe and some other godly meeke of your way propound nothing but wayes of meeknesse to your selves can you undertake c. whereby you seeme to acquit me from the accusation of such rigour as you suspect in others and if that be your meaning you are not mistaken in my spirit for if I know any thing of it it is farre from that height of heat against any opposers whatsoever which was in the Disciples of our Saviour against the Samaritans when they received him not Luk. 9.54 And I confesse in the presence of God who knoweth the hearts of all men that if a spirit of meeknesse and sweetnesse and of all affectionate and faire insinuations would prevaile with the most perverse and blasphemous heretique to winne him to be cordially Christs I could wish the golden Scepter held out to invite him into the communion of the Church rather then the iron rod to bruise or breake or to affright him from the Church And though you meane this of others who shew themselves Zealots for the Presbyteriall Government you are too inconsiderate too uncharitable too confident in your charge for how can you be so certain as you make your selfe when the thing they move for hath no terrour in it It is true that according to the French Proverbe He that would have his neighbours dog hang'd gives out that he is mad so your party that would have the Presbyteriall Government literally suspended and made away as a mad dog as if it would as Paul was before his conversion be mad against the Saints Act. 26.11 and breathe out nothing but threatnings and slaughters against them Act. 9.1 give out that it is an intolerable Tyranny and ten times worse then the Prelaticall Domination When indeed if men will lay aside all prejudice partiality and passion they shall finde the spirit of Independencie more terrible then that of Presbyterie For First that which is so much stuck at as an incroachment upon Christian liberty and a meanes of the Ministers domineering over the people the suspensiō from the Sacrament of the Lords Supper are not the Independents more rigid then the Presbyterians are for they generally suspend whole Parishes from the Sacrament except some few of their covenanted disciples for divers yeers together without any law or rule at all the Presbyterians generally doe not so or if some doe forbeare communions for a time it is not upon such principles as the Independents maintaine and they doe all they can to expedite the removall of all scandals from the Sacrament wherein the Independents refuse to joyne with them Secondly the Independents deny not onely the Sacrament of the Lords Supper as hath been said but they deny the Sacrament of Baptisme to all such as are not the children of their covenanted members the Presbyterians accept of them for a federall holinesse professed by their parents and if there were no more but these two differences betwixt them it were enough if men would not give up themselves to be grosly befooled by flattery and calumny to cry out upon the Independents for their injurious invasions upon Christian libertie and to love the Presbyterians for their mildnesse and charitie in these particulars but further Thirdly The Independents Government though to speake properly Independency is rather Anarchy then Government is more terrible then the Presbyterian because under it are united all sorts of sectaries among whom many are of furious spirits men of blood and Belial and such as have made many bloody massacres in Germany and have threatned if otherwise they may not have their will their libertie they call it that they will have it by the sword for have they not an Independent armie to force their way against the Presbyterians I quoted to this purpose Mr. Prinnes fresh Discovery and Dr. Bastw Preface to his second part of Independency but I quoted not their words now I will became since Mr. Edw. put forth his last Booke some of that sect have spoken bloody words against his person and though he be so confident in the goodnesse of his cause and the integrity of his intentions that he beleeves he should lesse feare to be killed then any to kill him yet since I finde the Independents deale with the Presbyterians as Ahab did with Elijah charging him with his own fault 1 King 18.17 and that like the beast in the Revelation they speake like a dragon Revel 13.11 and are horned rather like a ramme then a lambe I thinke it fit that their spirit be better known that they may be lesse trusted especially where they pretend more meeknesse then they finde among Presbyterians their words are these Two Predicant Captaines apprehended and questioned for preaching in Newport Pannell against the Ordinance of Parliament of the 26. of April 1645. among other speeches averred a Mr. Prinnes Epist Dedic before his Fresh Discovery of some prodigious new wandring blazing-starres and firebrand fol. 3. p. a. That if the godly and well affected party were thus persecuted they should be forced to make a worse breach then what was yet when they had done with the Kings party telling one Ensigne Ratford and his Souldiers that they were worse then Cavaliers and that when they had made an end of the warre with the Cavaliers they should be forced to raise a new Army to fight with them And in Dr. b Dr. Bastw his second part of Independency not Gods Ordinance in the Preface fol. 14. p. b. fol. 15. p. a. Bastwicks Preface to his second part of his Independency not Gods Ordinance he saith thus Among those they thinke they may confide in they affirme they will not be beholding to the Parliament nor any body else for their libertia for they will have it and aske them no leave they have the sword now in their hand and they thinke their partie strong enough to encounter any adverse and opposing partie and they professe they care not how soone they come to outting of throats and speake of nothing but the slaughtering and butchering of the Presbyterians And though I confesse there may be many Independents and some I know to be such as your selfe of a meeke and gentle disposition yet as Peter Du Moulin said of many of the Priests in France that they were for their loyaltis not beholding to the maxim●● of Italy so I say for their mooknesse they are not beholding to the Principles of Independency for where they most prevaile they puffe men up in pride selfe-conceipt and disdaine of their Christian brethren though in gifts and graces farre better then themselves many of them being Anabaptists and of the spirit of that ins●lent hereticke who when c Cum ego humaniter pro liuguae mea more cum compellarem nunquam aliter dignatus est mecu