the holy Ghost his set vs downe by that chosen vessell the blessed Apostle who prayeth Christians to walke worthy their calling whereunto they are called with all humblenes of minde meeknes with long suffering supporting one another in loue endeuouring to keepe the vnitie of the Spirite in the bonde of peace There is one bodie and one spirit c. looke the place To discerne and distinguishe therefore thinges aright here needeth the Spirite of the Lorde the spirite of wisedome vnderstanding the spirite of counsaile and strength the spirite of knowledge and of the feare of the Lorde that may make vs prudent in the feare of the Lord c. whereof the Prophet sayth It shoulde rest vpon Christ who receyued the fame for the behoofe of his Churche and vs to be guided by Wee haue receiued sayth Saint Paule not the spirite of the worlde but the spirite which is of God that we may know the things which are giuē vs of God And the Anoynting which yee receiued of him dwelleth in you saith Saint Iohn and Yee neede not that any man teach you but as the same anoynting teacheth you of all things it is true and is not lying and as it taught you yee shall abide in him Agayne our Sauiour Christ It is written in the Prophetes And they shal be all taught of God A good and sure Schoolemaister is this Spirit of truth to lead vs into all trueth to bring into our remembrance whatsoeuer Christ hath tolde vs and to redresse and direct our wayes according to God his holy woorde which is the truth God only vouchsafe to 〈◊〉 our eares and to touche our heartes continually to heare beleeue and obey this truth Thus much in respect of some certaine for their better satisfiyng if it may be This matter beside the scriptures which may and ought to suffise hath 〈◊〉 and is diducted at large by some writers both olde and new as they are called where the same for them that list may be seen namely Augustine in his writings aforetime against the Donatists and such like wadeth herein very godly and wisely in my opinion and such godly men in our time also as write against Anabaptistes and y e like that are infected herein that I neede not to adde there vnto And besides I doe but here touch the same by the way as a caueat to preuent or cut of cauill and quarrelling if it may be hauing rather to occupie meselfe in answering the 〈◊〉 sarie at this time as one that what reason or answere soeuer other may be thought to haue and to make he surely his fellow Romanists haue very litle or none as who may be thought to haue beene in the orders of this Churche sufficiently if not too muche respected and borne with nowe aboue these twentie yeeres whiche may serue with all the worlde to our 〈◊〉 and the States 〈◊〉 here towardes these men And that a through and full reformation of the Church need not be forborne in respect of them I woulde this great and necessarie matter might as easily be obtayned which our sinnes onely let as it is not harde to answere what euer those fellowes can nowe alleadge for them selues Unto the examination therefore of this mans particular Reasons for refusall of comming to Church I nowe turne my selfe THE first Reason why I being a Catholike in minde may not goe to the Churches or seruice of the contrary Religion is because I perswading my selfe their doctrine to be false doctrine and consequently venemous vnto the hearer I may not venture my soule to bee infected with the same So that the firste proposition or grounde of this first reason to make it in forme of argument is this No man that perswadeth himselfe the doctrine nowe professed and taught in the Church of Englande is false and venemous to the hearer may venture his soule to be infected therewith But euery Romane Catholike is a man that perswadeth him selfe the doctrine nowe professed and taught in the Church of England is false doctrine and venemous to the hearer Therefore no Romane Catholike may venture his soule to be infected therewith First Sir such Catholikes as are of contrary opinion vnto you herein for whose sake you wrote this discourse must you suppose will denie one of your two propositions finde shifts to auoyde all your proofes which will not bee harde to bee done for those of your religion But let them shift with you as they and you can agree I am no patrone of theirs I will speake and answere to the matter Therefore to this first Argument or Reason I answere that it is vayne and naught because it is grounded vpon opinion fancie and ones perswading of him selfe and doing after his perswasion and not vpon the matter and truth Nowe these two matters be diuers and doe differ much I perswade my selfe that such a thing is thus or so And such a thing in deed is thus or so The reason why because one may be and to often is deceiued in perswading himself of things otherwise then they be But the truth is alwaies one and 〈◊〉 not according to our perswasion neither 〈◊〉 thereon What if one perswade himselfe y t he is a Prince or haue a bag of money is he so or hath he it euer the more or euer the sooner for that neuer a whit sure Or if one perswade himself there is a snake in his bed shall he not sleepe neere it or if your fellow perswade himself you go about to deceiue him shall hee not trust you Surely our doing or not doing of thinges euen appertayning to this lyfe to haue the same well done must not depende vpon our own perswasion which is very changeable and vncertayne but our perswasion to doe any thing must depende rather vpon the trueth and goodnesse of the matter that wee minde to doe Otherwise one perswading him selfe that euery man hee shall meete will kil him may not venture to goe abroad about his 〈◊〉 nor come in the companie of any man perswading himselfe that what euer hee eate or drinke poysoneth him hee may not venture to eate nor drinke for being 〈◊〉 And so within a while die like a foole and be guiltie of his owne death because hee will not lay away his owne 〈◊〉 perswasion In religion and matters of 〈◊〉 is this argument much more 〈◊〉 vaine as y t which hath 〈◊〉 and doeth from Gods truth and is the mother and nurse of all superstition and 〈◊〉 So as if this disputer or reasoner will needes grounde this argument or reason vpon his perswasion yet must he giue seaue to 〈◊〉 the grounde of his perswasion whether it bee good or bad true or false And not say as he doth elsewhére that he will not dispute thereof but howe euer that bee the perswasion may not be done against be it true be it false First rather let him prooue the goodnes truth therof
is a great blocke in your waye that you can neuer prayse your duetifulnesse to her Maiestie but you must euer with all craue pardon for your vndutifulnesse in the greatest matters as you here doe for not leauing Pope and Poperie and conforming your selues to religion c. And yet yee doe the same cunningly and vnder couerte of conscience forsooth grounded on the reasons that are in the treatise which must stande in steade of al satisfaction to her Maiestie where-of in place God willing wee shall see I am sorie I am enforced to followe and examine your wordes I woulde there had been some grounded matter for I am afraide as I wearie my selfe so doe I some wise and discreete readers but I must craue pardon in respecte of other that are more simple and rude who it were pitte shoulde be by glosing seduced or deceiued 8 ANd that the Catholike religion in generall for I medle with no mans particular fact is vniustly touched by any sect of our time for teaching disobedience or rebellion against their princes it may appeare plainely by the different doctrine which eche part deliuereth vnto his followers First Iohn Wikliffe one of their progenitours teacheth That a Prince if he rule euil or fall into mortal sinne is no lōger Prince but that his subiectes may ryse against him punish him at their pleasures Secōdly Mar. Luther following the same steppes teacheth That Chistians are free and exempted from all Princes lawes Whereof followed immediatly that famous rebellion of the countrey men againste their Lordes in Germanye in the yeere 1525. and in the same two hundred thousande slaine in one day Thirdly Iohn 〈◊〉 not dissenting from the rest teacheth That princes lawes binde not subiectes to obedience in conscience but onely for externall and temporal respect Wherof enseweth that if by any occasion this externall feare for the which only the subiect obeyeth be taken away as when he were able to make his partie so strong as he feared not his Prince then he should not sinne in rebelling against him And in another place holding plainely the doctrine of Luther he sayth That the consciences of the faythfull are exempted from the power of all men by reason of the liberty geuen them by Christ. Lastly the writing against the regiment of women in Queene Maries time for that the gouernment then liked them not all men can remember Which errours all the Catholike Church vtterly condemneth teaching her children together with the Apostle true obedience to their Princes for Conscience sake euen as vnto God him selfe whose roome they doe possesse and to whom they are bounde vnder the paine of mortall sinne eternal damnation patiently to obey how hardly so euer they deale with them in their gouernment otherwise By the which your Maiestie may perceyue howe falsly the Catholike religion is charged by her enemies of the contrary crime 9 Besides this if your Highnesse wisedome shall but enter into a litle consideration of the demeanour of Catholikes and of other of newer religions towardes their Princes this day in Europe it shall easyly appeare whiche of them are of the quieter spirites and milder in obedience I will not make mention of greater matters but onely to quite this aforesaide Puritane which so falsely hath infamed vs I will set downe here certaine propositions gathered out of two sermons of two of his preachers by a minister present there in Stamforde at the generall fast this last Sommer Which fast being prohibited with the preachings at the same by the expresse letters of the Lorde Superintendent of Lincolne bearing date the 5. of September to the Alderman and Comburgeses of the said Towne the preachers would not obey but stepping vp into the pulpit vttered as followeth 1. In such actions as may further the publique fast flesh and blood must not be called to counsell to doe the Lordes commaundement but they must be vndertakē without such warrant 2. The religion that Ionas preached did not as ours now doth depend and hange vpon Actes of Parliament For we when we go about such actions as God is to be glorified in 〈◊〉 first inquire whether there be any acte of Parliament to warrant our doings or no. 3 It is the manner of her officers and Counsellers now 〈◊〉 dayes to reforme matters by acts of Parliament and by pollices and not by Ionas his preachings 4 Her Counsellers neuer inquire what newes at Poules sermō but what reports are abroad that if any disliking thing should come to the Kings 〈◊〉 they might stop it from thence 1. He is of no spirite that will not promote that whiche God commandeth though all Edictes be contrary for we must not obey fleshe and blood 2. They that are ruled by the Edictes of men will change their religion with the Prince and they are of no conscience though they be neuer so much grounded in diuinitie 3. What if nether the Queene Counsell nor Bishoppe haue been present at the Fast nor allowed thereof yet wee ought to vndertake it Put case it is not in the Queenes chappel what then 4. This fast hath been hindred by certaine prophane carnall wretches 10 Here loe your Maiestie may see with what temperate spirite these men doe proceed and what they would teach and doe if they shoulde be contraried in great matters seeing they boult out suche doctrine against their Magistrats for crossing their appetites in so small a matter as is a litle phantastical age of fasting sodainely come vpon them for a desire they haue to heare themselues speake ten or twelue houres together after their continuall railing against fasting for these twentie one yeeres past But this is their spirite to rushe into euery thing with inordinate violence and to like of nothing that order and obedience layeth down vnto them The which your Maiesties great wisedome considering together with the quiet and modest proceedings of the Catholike part shall I doubt not easily perceiue what daunger it were to permit muche to such kinde of spirites and to bereaue this your Realme of so important a stay as Catholikes are in euery of your countreys against the perilous innouations of these and the like men whose finall ende is as their doctrine declareth to haue no gouernour or ruler at all 11 And this may bee one great Motiue vnto your Maiestie in respect of the safetie quietnes of your whole 〈◊〉 to extende some more mercye and fauour to your trustie and afflicted subiectes the Catholikes Who as they were moste ready at the beginning according to their bounden dueties to place your highnesse in that Royall roome wherein nowe by the fauour of God you stande So are they and will bee alwayes in like sorte ready with the vttermost droppe of their blood to defende the same in all safetie peace and quietnesse vnto the ende In consideration of which goodwil and seruice they can not
scriptures directing ruling your consciences thereby On the other side againe wyll you as honest dutifull Subiects renouncing all forraigne power of Prelate Prince or Potentate whatsoeuer betake your selues hence forwarde to bee gouerned by her Maiestie and the temporall lawes of this lande and such Statutes as for the good and peaceable guiding thereof be by her Maiestie the State made agreed vpon in the high court of 〈◊〉 according to the order of this Realme What say you to this condition I aske you because I am in doubt whether you will in the ende stand to the resolution and iudgement of her Maiestie the State herein Nor to any in deed but vnto your Pope your selues and yet had yee neede I tell you resolue be resolued in this point before you make sute to her maiestie so earnest sute to haue publike disputation as wherevpon your eternall saluation dependeth c. And to this point answere hardly in your next writing for in this Epistle DEDICATORIE your wordes hetherto seeme to imploy som cōtradictiō in this matter or els your sute seemeth yf not hollowly yet cunningly made to your vantage but preiudiciall and perillous to this quiet and peaceable state setled nowe aboue these xxii yeeres together in this kind of gouernement of reiecting the authoritie of the Pope of Rome and Popish religion and receiuing the profession of the Gospel and acknowledging her Maiesties Royall soueraigntie ouer all States and degrees All which is wel and sufficiently warranted and maintained by the expresse testimonie of Gods holy worde and the wholesome lawes of this Realme as hath beene and is still both for the one the other by proofe published to the viewe of all the worlde You M. Howlet and your late start vp Iesuites and other English Romanistes or Rhemistes to be plaine with you are too weake in the shoulders God haue the glory to take in hande by disputation or otherwise to vndermine or shake this Godly State or to prooue your owne cause good Yee are but princockes and babes for the most part in comparison of those of your side aforetime that stoode in the front of the battaile whose force yet God be thanked haue beene well tryed and met with all It is vnto you a harde 〈◊〉 of the decay and vtter ruine shortly to fall vpon your huge Antichristian kingdome as that was an after demonstration in the Poet Naeuius that Tullie mencioneth when newe Oratours foolish young men arise and take in hande the administration of the common wealth who were wont so to bragge of gray haires olde men c. Yea 〈◊〉 is that that hath alreadie beene a great part of the vndoing ofit on your behalfes Young men I speake not to reproch age nor to touche towardly youth may haue good heades fresh memorie quicke sight sharpe wit ioly art and prompt and readie tongues and wordes at will which thinges if they bee well applyed wherein is all haue their commendation as in young men But in heauenly matters Gods truth reuealed in his written worde his feare a setled vnderstanding and iudgement framed by Gods holy spirite ioyned with simplicitie and sinceritie in Christes religion and a reuerent humble minde to Godwarde directed alwayes by the sacred Scriptures in young or olde are a great deale more worth and yet by your vaunt you seeme to trust much to the other and thereupon are you so earnest for disputation Of your vaine Scholasticall disputations and arguments pro contra that can make quidlibet ex quolibet or as wee speake Make men beleeue that the Moone is made of greene cheese or that the Crowe is white by your sophistrie The Churche of God to the hurt thereof hath had too great experience afore time and the faithfull at this day see but too muche of this stuffe in your subtill Doctor Scotus your Angelicall Doctors Quodlibetal questions and in numbers of bookes of that stampe We haue beene faithfully warned by the holy ghost to take heed of admitting that kind of dealing a great while since namely in Saint Paules Epistles to Timothie And in deed by tryall we find dayly that by wrangling iangling and vaine disputiug the truth commonly goeth to wracke and is lost besides other inconueniences that arise thereby There be other meanes to try out the truth by then this This kinde of exercise vnlesse it bee very soberly kept and vsed with great moderation is very dangerous in matters of diuinitie And yet God be thanked for his gifts you may be and are euen in this exercise matcheable and to bee matched if neede were with your equals heere at home You that make these great bragges were but yesterday to talke of in Oxeford you haue left your fellowes and your betters too behind you in Oxeford Cābrige abrod also if you will giue other besides your selues leaue to iudge but let vs heare what you tell vs more of y e particulars for you offer also of your liberalitie two other wayes of dealing besides publike disputation These are your wordes 15 ANd as for the particulars wee shall easily agree with them For wee offer all these three wayes both iointly and seuerally that is either by trying out the truthe by briefe scholasticall arguments or by continuall speeche for a certaine space to be allotted out the other part presently or vpon studie to answere the same or finally by preaching before your Maiestie or where els your Maiestie shall appoint And for our safeties we aske nothing els but only your Maiesties worde set downe vnto vs in no ampler maner then the Councell of Trent made the safe conduct to our aduersaries which they notwithstanding refused to accept But I hope they shall see that wee will not refuse or mistrust your Maiesties worde if we may once see it set downe by proclamation or otherwise by letters pattents for our safetie but that within 80. dayes after by the grace of God wee shall appeare before your highnesse with what danger soeuer to our liues otherwise for the try all of Gods truth which we make no doubt but to be cleare on our side 16 If our aduersaries refuse this offer they shall shewe too muche distrust in their owne case for it is with great labour perill and disaduantage on our partes and on their sides nothing at all I woulde they durst make but halfe the like offer for their comming hyther on this side the Seas it shoulde bee most thankefully taken and they with great safetie and all gentle intreatie disputed withall aud made to see as I presume their owne weakenesse But seeing this is not to bee hoped for wee relye vpon the other beseeching your Maiestie most humbly instantly that our iust demaund may be graunted for the tryall of Gods truth most necessary for vs all too our eternall saluation YEE talke vnto vs of three wayes of conference both ioyntly and seuerally as yee speake but all must
that cause that is for your abominable masse 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 take it your popish priestes and all and away with the same out of Christes church to the Diuell if yee will 〈◊〉 it first came amōg vs. Your doctors c. haue 〈◊〉 are so answered as I neede not stand therein vpon this occasion If yee take that or any other matter in hande yee cannot goe vnanswered God be thanked for his giftes I list not now to repeate that is and hath beene so often well and truely tolde you heerein The like to this I tell you of your popish and apish ceremonies Wee liue not in a ceremoniall time nor in a ceremoniall Churche to heape vp the number of them nowe Wee are content you be the fathers and fosterers of your superstitious and vnnecessary ceremonies of your seuen sacraments yea seuen hundred if you wil for your priest in his pontificalibus and massing apparell is compounded I trow of nothing if we will beleeue you but of misteries and so of sacraments all your religion is ceremoniall and mysticall but all of your owne deuising Wee as those that are called to worship God in spirite and truth that is after a more spirituall and heauenly maner inwardly in a seruice more agreeable to Gods nature then that which is shadowed by Ceremonies content our selues heerein with Gods wisedome desire to keepe sobrietie and following the rule of the Scriptures referre all heerin to order comelinesse and edification especially But not such as is fleshly and agreeable to fleshly men minds but suche as is correspondent and agreeable with the crucifides kingdome and the preaching of the Crosse. Our sacraments we confesse are not ashamed in this time of y t Gospell vnder Christ to cōfesse thē being in number most fewe in obseruation most easie and yet in signification most heauenly When you can prooue that ye heere only say that wee either haue not most fewe that is two Sacraments Baptisme and the Lordes Supper according to our Sauiour Christes holy institution or are bounde to haue moe you shall heare what wee haue further to answere and say vnto you If y t which haue beene alreadie saide content you not as it may doe any reasonable men that wilfully 〈◊〉 not themselues Our Communion can bee no Sacrament you say yet you cannot bee ignorant that the word and matter are taken out of the Scripture much lesse then can your priuate Sacrifice and Action that is secrete coniuring sole receauing c. bee a Sacrament Houseling and being houseled once a yeere which is a halfe receiuing of I wote not what not of a Sacramente sure where you haue left no Element is suche a prophanation and contempt of Christes Sacrament as hardly can there bee a greater Let not vs then among 〈◊〉 the Communion of the body and blood of Christe is celebrated monethly or quarterly at least of euery one bee called contemners of Christes Sacramentes and charged with Sacriledge and you Papistes bee let goe scotfree who in steede of ofte receiuing content your selues with gasing crouching kneeling c. The like I tell you of prayer for the dead of our prayers c. in the mother tongue You are alwayes so like your selfe as yee can hardely deceiue any that once knowe you or will knowe you THE eight Reason is grounded vpon the losse of the benefite of the Romish Catholik religion If they goe to Churche heere which is made a great matter a waightie Before wee enter into that is particularly saide heereof let vs examine this generall grounde Heere is no more alleadged for the Papistes refraining from our assemblies then may bee alleadged by the Iewe the Turke or any Heathen by the Arrian Anabaptist or any Heretike who in communicating with an other religion leeseth the benefite of his owne And therefore as we may answere the one so may wee doe the other that is that it is no losse at al to forgoe that which is not beneficiall to any but hurtfull to all yea as some losse is a gaine so is it a great gaine not only to forgoe so Diuelishe and poysonfull a religion but with all to gaine the truth by the profession of the Gospell How beneficiall soeuer a man haue esteemed and founde a 〈◊〉 and lying aforetime to bee yet hath he loste nothing thereby that leaueth that custome and vseth himselfe to the telling of the truth yea hee hath gayned greatly by that change To haue mens eyes opened by the ministerie and preaching of the Gospell that they may turne from darkenesse to light and from the power of Satan vnto God that they may receiue forgiuenesse of sinnes and inheritance among them that are sanctified by faith in Christ c is no losse but an incomparable gayne And this is your very case to the worlde warde more gaine and benefite many wayes by your voluntarie religion then by the sincere profession of the holy Gospell of Christe Iesus I graunt to the soule and Godwarde no profite but vnspeakeable hurt gotten by the profession of Poperie Where vpon I counsel all to leaue those filthy puddles of Poperie and to drinke of this pure fountayne of the water of life that is to leaue that god the Pope his lawe and traditions his idolatrous Religion and superstitions and to betake them selues to the true God of heauen to Iesus Christ his holy Scriptures and worde to be guided by contayned in the Byble and booke of God That which this discourser calleth a losse that let them count an inestimable benefite And what euer these men slander vs withall yet wee protest it before the eternall God that our meaning is not to drawe any from Poperie to any Religion deuised by men howe wise or mightie soeuer they bee but to the true Religion of Iesus Christ set vs downe in Gods booke Let them betake themselues to that let them professe the gospel of christ Iesus they shal go long enough vnblamed for their profession by vs let them answere their profession and liue according thereunto as is set downe in the same booke of GOD they shall please vs marueilously wel it is all wee require at their hands wee wil wishe peace vnto them and to the Israel of God Though then wee wishe men to depart frō that whoorishe Babylon of Rome though wee 〈◊〉 them saue them selues from this frowarde generation c. Yet wishe wee them well to marke whether we cal them we leaue them not at randon we call them not to followe our Religion framed at our pleasure much lesse call wee them to Atheisme but we call them from that vsurper and woolfe to Christ Jesus the Prince of Pastours our onely high Priest and the Byshop of our soules Reade the 1. Peter 2. if but onely the last verse of the Chapter and see whither and to whome S. Peter himselfe called men euen the Church Let his successour as he falsely pretendeth doe the like at least if he call