Selected quad for the lemma: spirit_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
spirit_n	father_n	speak_v	word_n	8,168	5	4.4024	3	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A89859	Weaknes above wickednes, and truth above subtilty. Which is the Quakers defence against the boaster and his deceitfull slanders. Clearly seen in an answer to a book called Quakers quaking; devised by Jeremiah Ive's against the dispised contemptible people trampled on by the world, and scorned by the scorners. In which the deceits are turned into the deceivers bosome, and the truth cleared from the accuser. In much plainesse, that the simple may see and perceive, and come to be gathered to the Lamb, from amongst the armies of the wicked, who have now set themselves against the Lord, and sees it not. Also some queries to Jeremy Ive's touching his false doctrine and deceits. / by one who is called, James Nayler.	Naylor, James, 1617?-1660.	1656 (1656)	Wing N327; ESTC R207303	22,439	32

Church which is his body which cannot be said to be Christ distinct from that body and so cannot properly be said to have two bodies the one of them being the Christ Neither doe we herein deny that Christ our head to take flesh wholly as thou falsly accuseth us but we own him that came from Heaven and is ascended into Heaven that word that became flesh and dwelt among us which thou knowest not who hath denied that faith which is the gift of God with Himancus Pluentus with whom thou wouldst charge us adding a lie thereto as though we say the Resurrection is past And another lie thou tellest that one of us being asked the Question answers that Christ was but a figure and to prove that lie thou sayest See Sauls Errand to Damascus page 54. when that Book hath but 37 pages in it a sutable proof for such a lie Neither is there such an Answer by any of us in all that Book as thus thou proves thy work with thy owne shame And thou goes on to tell whom we have affinity with as Gnosticks and Mamchers c. but is not thy affinity with them who art so well skill'd in their Opinions which we meddle not with and is it not by their Spirit which thou boasts to know what ten of us will say before hand their Spirits we deny and thine also with the Papists and the rest which thy filthy mind would compare us to to make us odious that with the rest of thy bundle of light vain frothy talk and stories which thou hast set in thy Book which airie spirit stinks and its words in the nostrills of all sober men as thy long story of a Monk set in a Chaire of carrying a bushel of coals to Newcastle of Hares and Hounds of Apes and coulting language and such filthy stuffe as thou fillest thy Book with might sute a Stage-play more like then a sober Christian all which we turn thee back with the heap of thy confusion which in thy Book is not worth answering Then thou comest to the conclusion as thou sayest and thou exhortest that every one would compare what thou hast writ with the holy Scripture and then judge So say I also that they may see thee a perverter of Scripture and a liar as I have proved thee Another lie thou tellest also that all that thou hast writ against us is either from our own mouths or our own writings when the greatest part of the accusations thou hast gathered out of a bloody persecuting Petition of the Priests of Westmorland which are their lies cast upon us not our words nor writings And the rest are such as with thy Divination thou hast raised out of the bottomlesse pit which with the truth are turned upon thine own head but us they touch not Something more thou makest as though thou couldst say of the evill manners of some of our Teachers but thou forbeatest To which I say they that are blind may believe it is thy moderation but who hath an eye to see how into the depth of Satan thou art gone to drag up all this filth in thy book to cast upon us who are clear of it I say he who well notes this will find cause to be of another mind Thou addest a Postscript to thy Book no lesse full of wickednesse then the rest and that is wherein thou hast perverted my words into a lye who was speaking of the two Seeds the Old Man and the New one born after the flesh the other after the Spirit and because I said that Christ is not born after the flesh but after the Spirit this thou wouldst pervert as though I denied Christ come in the flesh at Jerusalem which some seeing thy murtherous mind at that time did write down the words then spoken and have set to their hands which may shew thy wickednesse and clear the truth as followeth 22d 4th Month 1656. At the Bull Mouth in Martins London JAmes Naylor declaring of the two Seeds the Seed of the Woman and the Seed of the Serpent the light being in the One and the Darknesse in the other in reference to what Jeremy Ives alledged from that Scripture He that walketh not according to this Rule it is because there is no light in him said That Christ was not born after the flesh but after the Spirit That that which was born after the flesh was flesh and that which was born after the Spirit was Spirit and except a man was born of water and the Spirit he cannot see the Kingdome of God Jeremy Ives hearing what was spoken said I have now what I lookt for and afterwards demanded of James Naylor the same thing againe James Naylor said That Christ was not borne after the flesh but after the Spirit and immediately adjoyned For that which is born after the flesh is flesh and that which is born after the Spirit is Spirit And also said that Christ was begotten of the Father and born of the Virgin that he was true flesh and true blood and that he appeared in the likenesse of sinfull flesh but was not sinfull Hest And these words he spake together whereof we are Witnesses George Bishop Richard Greneway Robert Rich. William Wilson Richard Davies Humfrey Wollrich Robert Dring John Clarke AND whereas thou sayest the Scripture makes no such distinction as born after the flesh and after the Spirit read Gal. 4. 29. and thou mayest see that lie contradicted And that be that is born after the flesh is a persecuter of him that is born after the Spirit So it was before Christ suffered at Jerusalem and so it is now Neither was Christ as he was born of Mary born after the flesh but by promise begotten and brought forth though he was true and holy flesh in the likenesse of sinsull flesh but not sinfull flesh being begotten not of sinfull flesh but of the Holy Ghost by the word of the promise which word became flesh but is not after the flesh but how shouldst thou know what he is that came down from Heaven or how he is born who hast denied the faith which is the gift of God Thy earthly faith knowes not the heavenly body whose flesh is the life of all Creatures how it is begotten neither how it is born A Promise thou makest in the latter end of thy Book which here I mind thee of which if thou perform may be profitable to thy soule therefore I am the more willing to put thee on it The Promise is this That if by the words of truth it shall be made manifest that thou hast spoken any untruth thou shalt with readinesse of mind make a publick acknowledgement of it unto the world which if thou perform now that thy lies are clearly laid open there is not much of thy Book that must stand undenied But that Spirit which made the Promise so far before hand whose repentance stands in thy own will will never perform this Promise Thou

without the word and in this respect and no other doe we deny many who would make the letter the word which thou wouldst do did none know better then to believe thee and not onely so but would stop the mouth of God from speaking any more in his people or us for confessing to his word in us at which thou wrangles with words not worth heeding Thy third Errour thou charges us with is that we say we are immediatly sent of God and that thou canst not receive and yet art not ashamed to count me a lyar for saying That I coming in the name of God thou couldst not receive me but if I had come in my own name thou couldest But what spirit thou art of and of whose message thou goest is plainly seen who sets it down as an Error to say they are sent of God doth not thou herein justifie the false Prophets who run unsent and would not thou have condemned the true Prophets and Apostles as thou dost us had thou lived in their dayes who said they were sent of God and did not work Miracles in the sight of all they preacht to which thou requirest or else thou wilt not believe but the Devills faith could never believe Gods Messengers with Miracles nor without Miracles it s not like thou shouldest believe any that is sent of God who denies that Faith which is the gift of God and so calls that error which all the Ministers of Christ doth own and that which thou calls error we own and make proof thereof in our measures as they did in patience in afflictions in necessities and distresses in stripes and Imprisonments in tumults in labours in watchings and fastings c. and in turning people from their in quities which thou falsly sayes is not a singne of a Minister of Christ Then thou goes on a deceitfull story glorying in lyes adding words that was never spoken and diminishing truth to make thy selfe a cover with a lye concerning our disputes but doth not speak the truth as to thine own blasphemous Heresies which thou affirmed and went about to maintaine at Gerrard Roberts our first meeting and at other places which thy deceit hides such as these following to wit thou affirmed before many witnesses That Faith by which men are saved is not the gift of God That a man may understand the Scriptures without the Spirit of God and so try Spirits That all good is not of God That the obedience of believers is not the gift of God That the Law was not given forth by Christ That Christ was not the Minister of Circumcision That none was baptized with the holy Ghost but who wrote Miracles That John Baptist went not out of Jerusalem to Baptize That the Wildernesse in which John baptized was in Jerusalem That Jordan in which John did baptize was in Jerusalem That whosoever speaks that which they to whom he speaks doe not understand he is a foole and a Barbarian Thou said also that thou could foretel things to come and yet was not baptized with the Spirit Of which Errors I writ to thee in a Letter presently after but could never receive an answer thereof Also thy other deceits holden forth at the Bull and Mouth which were such as these That Christ lighteth every man that cometh into the world but this light was not within That the Heathen had a light that convinc't them of sin but this light was not within them That Christ took away the sin of every Man that cometh into the world Hadst thou intended honesty thou shouldst have published the whole Truth but it is the way of the Author of thy faith to cover himselfe with lyes but it is but that he may be laid open where he is and that truth may discover other of thy lyes and old stories of Austin the Monk Gregory the Pope and the King of Kent which are things more fit to rot then to be raked in I passe them by as most sutable to returne them back into the bottle from whence they came And least thou shouldst deny that I sent thee such a letter which thou never answered I shall here publish a Copy thereof that thou may answer it in thy next and others may see I have not wronged thee which Letter is as followeth Jeremy Ive's THY blasphemous deceitfull Doctrines wherewith thou leads simple people into confusion and destruction I am moved to put thee in mind of that if thou be not wilfully blind thou mayst see thy selfe out of the power of God yea and out of the forme of the sound words in the letter also as appeared in thy discourse when I was with thee some of the particulars whereof I shall mention as thou didst affirme them before many witnesses First Thou saidst that a man may understand the Scriptures without the Spirit of God and so try the Spirits But the Scripture saith Without Christ you can doe nothing John 15. 5. John 5. 30. 1 Cor. 2. and saith that Christ could doe nothing of himselfe and that the naturall man cannot know the things of the Spirit of God because they are spiritually discerned and that no man knows the things of God but the Spirit of God and that the Spirit searcheth Judges and reveals all the things of God c. And thy tryall of Spirits by the letter without the Acts 13. 27. Spirit is the same by which Christ was tryed by the Pharisees who read the Scripture of the Prophets every Sabbath but not understanding their voyces by the letter put him to death and thou art not wiser without the Spirit of God then they was and so art found an enemy to him as they was and in the same Spirit Thou said also That the Faith by which we are saved is not the gift of God But the Scripture saith By Grace you are saved through Ephes 2. 8. Faith not of your selves it is the gift of God and that Christ is the author and finisher of the Saints faith and every H b 12 2. James 1 17. John 3. 27. 2. Cor 4 13 Jude 3. Heb. 11. 1. good gift comes from above from the father of light and that a man can receive nothing except it be given him from above and that the Saints had the Spirit of Faith and that the saith to salvation was delivered to the Saints and that Faith is the substance of things hoped And thou sayest it is not the gift of God so thy Faith which is not the gift of God is the Faith of the Devill and from him thou hast received it who hast not received it from God whereof thou mayst read James 3. Thou sayedst also that the obedience of Believers is not the gift of God But the Scripture saith that the Saints obedience was 1 Pet 1. 2. Isa 26. 12. Phil 2. 13. Phil 2 13. 1 Pet. 1. 22. John 3. 21 through the sanctification of the Spirit and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus and that

called a lye but not proved one and time will prove it otherwise The fifth lye is that James Naylor in a written Paper calls thee shamelesse Man for tempting him to deny the Lord. The sixth lye is that James Naylor in the same Paper said if he had come in his own name thou wouldst have received him as was confessed by thee To both which I answer as many can witnesse with me at the dispute which occasioned the Letter when I denyed thy faith to be the the faith of God or any of his Saints and proffered to prove it so before all the people if thou would put it upon tryall thou denyed my request unlesse I would deny my Call from God and say I was called some other way or else there work a miracle and then thou wouldst put thy faith on tryall according to my request which if this was not to tempt me to deny the Lord and his Call to obtaine a dispute wherein I could not be received while I confessed to come in the Name of God which another way in my own name and will thou proffered to receive me And this being done before many witnesses was the occasion of these words in my Letter as followeth O Shameless man was ever such a thing demanded by any child of God to tempt one to deny the Lord yea the Heathen would blush at such a thing to send for one to dispute and then to deny to come t otryall with that they call the Rule and touchstone unlesse they whom they did dispute with would deny their God first Hast not thou proved thy selfe worse then any that ever disputed with the Apostles or any of the Servants of God that ever he sent forth Dost thou professe the Scriptures and is it become such an odious thing to thee to come in the name of God that for that very thing thou drust not put thy Faith upon tryall by Scripture nor could receive me but if I would come in my own name thou would as thou plainly confessed that if I would say I was not sent of God thou would put thy Faith upon tryall c. Now the things being true before related as many can witnesse where the lye is in these words let honesty judge and let any mind the wicked one how he hath perverted my words to slander me with saying that I said if I had come in my own name he would have received me as saith he I said he did plainly confesse and leaves out the rest which words as I writ them runs thus as thou plainly confessed That if I would say I was not sent of God then thou would put thy Faith on tryall The truth of which words will be witnessed by many that heard that thou pretended that very thing to hinder the tryall of thy faith because of my coming in the name of God And further thou added that if I was one sent of God it was to no purpose to put thy faith on tryall with me for I would overturne all thy proofes or words to that purpose as may be testified by many witnesses So the lyes be to thy selfe and on thy head till thou repent thereof but peace and truth to him that loves it Thy seventh lie is that while one ran from Bull Mouth to thy house for the Paper I slipt away which is a most abominable falshood as hundreds can witnesse that I went not away till the meeting broke up neither knew I of any such thing as the Letter fetching neither have I yet run from your filthy lyes envy much les shall I run from the truths written with my own hand which I here have owned and clearly proved to be truth thee to be the lyar and and shall further doe it if to the truth it may be service able And when thou hast done thou sayest these a are but a few of those Legions of Lyes that are in our writings and preachings when the Lyes are thy own raised by that Spirit of Insidelity who having denyed the Faith of Christ would turne his truth into a lye and was thou not impudent in thy wickednesse thou might be ashamed of thy birth thou hast brought forth who hath been hunting for accusations against the truth but canst find none and so runs to a sort of hurling Priests and their false accusations thou preachest for Truths being of the same nature with them their reports agree most with thy spirit and thy foundation being deceit thy work falls upon thy own head Then thou makes a boast of something that thou wouldst prove the first thing is the writings of the Scripture to be the word of God this thou wouldst prove from Mark 7. to where Christ saith They that doe not honour their father and mother maketh the word of God of none effect saying that he faith their making this written Law of none effect which is false for his words are Making the word of God of none effect through your traditions but thou that wouldst make the letter of that command the word which was written in stone if thou readest 2 Cor. 3. thou mighst find the Apostle denies that or to be any Minister of it and saith that ministration is done away and owns the ministration of the Spirit and not of the letter so thou hast lost thy word if the Apostle saith true and a new proofe thou must seek to prove the letter the word Another proofe thou brings is from Jer. 36. where thou wouldst prove that the letter of that Role is the word of God which Baruck read so by thy proofe the word of God may be burnt if that Role be it and so thy word of God is lost that which was written in that Role not so much as being in the Bible and with such confused stuffe as this thou makest thy proofes which the least of wisdome would be ashamed of If that engraven in stone be the word and that in Baruks role the word and both wanting the letter of the one and the matter of the other then there is two of the words lost and how thou wilt prove that which is lost to be the word now wisdome may judge who knowes the word of the Lord that endures for ever what ever becomes of the letter but a literall ministration suits best with thy made faith how should that faith which comes not from God believe the living word but like thy fore-fathers the Jews who were deaf and blind as thou art who could read the Scriptures but the word of God had no place in them who could heare Christ speak literally with their carnall ears but could not hear his word Thy next proofe is as confused as the rest thou sayest thou would prove the Scriptures to be the word of God out of our own mouths and yet thy accusation against us is that we deny the Scriptures to be the word what conjuration is this that thou art about who canst prove