Selected quad for the lemma: spirit_n

Word A Word B Word C Word D Occurrence Frequency Band MI MI Band Prominent
spirit_n father_n son_n way_n 5,888 5 5.0772 4 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A57860 A rational defence of non-conformity wherein the practice of nonconformists is vindicated from promoting popery, and ruining the church, imputed to them by Dr. Stillingfleet in his Unreasonableness of separation : also his arguments from the principles and way of the reformers, and first dissenters are answered : and the case of the present separation, truly stated, and the blame of it laid where it ought to be : and the way to union among Protestants is pointed at / by Gilbert Rule ... Rule, Gilbert, 1629?-1701. 1689 (1689) Wing R2224; ESTC R7249 256,924 294

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the_o dr._n be_v please_v sect._n 32._o to_o engage_v in_o a_o debate_n with_o mr._n a._n about_o bow_v at_o the_o name_n of_o jesus_n and_o count_v oppose_v it_o a_o blow_n at_o the_o church_n if_o the_o dr._n will_v have_v defend_v this_o ceremony_n he_o shall_v have_v answer_v what_o be_v of_o purpose_n learned_o and_o solid_o write_v against_o it_o by_o mr_n william_n wicken_n and_o twelve_o argument_n against_o it_o by_o another_o hand_n and_o not_o satisfy_v himself_o with_o answer_v some_o occasional_a reflection_n make_v on_o it_o by_o mr._n a._n but_o this_o ceremony_n be_v impose_v by_o the_o church_n as_o one_o of_o the_o term_n of_o her_o communion_n which_o i_o know_v not_o till_o i_o find_v the_o dr._n here_o do_v not_o deny_v it_o i_o shall_v a_o little_a consider_v it_o by_o propose_v our_o scruple_n against_o the_o use_n of_o it_o and_o take_v off_o the_o edge_n of_o what_o the_o dr._n bring_v in_o defence_n of_o it_o but_o we_o must_v first_o consider_v the_o true_a 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will_v serve_v for_o both_o part_n of_o our_o opinion_n they_o be_v 1._o this_o bowing_n be_v a_o uncommanded_a piece_n of_o worship_n ergo_fw-la it_o be_v unlawful_a the_o consequence_n depend_v on_o christ_n condemn_v of_o man_n tradition_n in_o his_o worship_n as_o vain_a on_o this_o account_n that_o they_o be_v the_o command_v of_o man_n math._n 15._o 9_o mark_v 7._o 7._o of_o which_o before_o and_o i_o think_v the_o doctor_n will_v not_o deny_v it_o who_o own_v that_o act_n of_o worship_n must_v have_v divine_a warrant_n page_n 348._o the_o antecedent_n have_v two_o part_n to_o wit_n that_o this_o act_n be_v uncommand_v and_o that_o it_o a_o act_n of_o worship_n for_o the_o first_o few_o of_o our_o brethren_n allege_v a_o command_n for_o it_o for_o than_o it_o shall_v not_o be_v indifferent_a as_o they_o make_v it_o and_o they_o that_o plead_v a_o command_n find_v it_o in_o phil._n 2._o 10._o but_o that_o place_n do_v no_o way_n enjoin_v any_o such_o rite_n for_o first_o the_o greek_a text_n be_v plain_a not_o at_o but_o in_o the_o name_n of_o jesus_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d which_o to_o expound_v of_o bow_v at_o the_o hear_n of_o the_o word_n be_v the_o great_a violence_n that_o can_v be_v do_v to_o plain_a word_n for_o the_o plain_a sense_n be_v that_o subjection_n to_o his_o dignity_n and_o power_n shall_v be_v yield_v by_o all_o creature_n 2._o this_o text_n can_v no_o way_n be_v restrict_v to_o the_o reverence_n give_v in_o divine_a service_n but_o must_v either_o prove_v this_o a_o duty_n at_o all_o time_n when_o this_o name_n be_v utter_v or_o it_o prove_v no_o such_o expression_n of_o reverence_n at_o all_o 3._o the_o text_n speak_v only_o of_o kneel_v and_o i_o know_v not_o that_o it_o be_v in_o the_o church_n power_n where_o the_o lord_n command_v kneel_v to_o change_v it_o into_o bow_v of_o the_o head._n 4._o if_o this_o be_v enjoin_v so_o be_v confess_v with_o the_o tongue_n ver_fw-la 11._o what_o power_n have_v the_o church_n to_o pick_v and_o choose_v scripture-commandment_n to_o enjoin_v one_o and_o neglect_v another_o of_o equal_a authority_n but_o why_o do_v i_o stay_v on_o this_o many_o episcopal_a man_n and_o even_o some_o papist_n look_v on_o this_o text_n as_o nothing_o to_o the_o purpose_n in_o hand_n for_o the_o second_o part_n of_o the_o antecedent_n that_o this_o bow_v be_v a_o act_n of_o worship_n i_o hope_v that_o will_v not_o be_v deny_v it_o be_v a_o direct_a and_o solemn_a adore_v of_o jesus_n christ_n and_o the_o state_v of_o it_o in_o divine_a service_n and_o appropriate_v it_o to_o that_o do_v constrain_v man_n to_o look_v so_o upon_o it_o sect._n 28._o argument_n 2._o it_o be_v not_o reasonable_a service_n ergo_fw-la it_o be_v not_o acceptable_a service_n the_o consequence_n i_o hope_v will_v not_o be_v deny_v the_o antecedent_n i_o prove_v because_o no_o reason_n can_v be_v give_v for_o bow_v at_o the_o hear_n of_o this_o word_n rather_o than_o at_o the_o mention_n of_o these_o other_o name_n by_o which_o god_n father_n son_n and_o holy_a ghost_n or_o our_o bless_a redeemer_n be_v call_v it_o be_v not_o enough_o that_o some_o reason_n can_v be_v pretend_v for_o this_o practice_n single_o consider_v for_o 1._o whatever_o reason_n be_v give_v for_o it_o do_v equal_o concern_v other_o name_n of_o god_n and_o christ_n and_o therefore_o must_v either_o prove_v the_o church_n faulty_a in_o not_o institute_v worship_n to_o all_o these_o name_n or_o they_o prove_v nothing_o at_o all_o 2._o our_o main_a scruple_n be_v at_o the_o discrimination_n that_o be_v make_v by_o this_o ceremony_n between_o this_o name_n and_o other_o that_o be_v equal_o holy_a therefore_o they_o must_v either_o give_v a_o reason_n why_o adoration_n be_v fit_a in_o this_o case_n rather_o than_o in_o the_o other_o case_n or_o they_o do_v not_o reach_v the_o question_n the_o reason_n give_v by_o the_o learned_a hooker_n eccles._n polic_a lib._n 5._o sect._n 30._o be_v not_o concludent_fw-la to_o wit_n 1._o it_o show_v a_o reverend_a regard_n to_o the_o son_n of_o god._n answer_v 1._o let_v the_o father_n and_o spirit_n have_v the_o same_o reverend_a regard_n 2._o every_o way_n of_o express_v our_o regard_n to_o he_o be_v not_o warrantable_a he_o have_v appoint_v way_n for_o it_o and_o not_o leave_v they_o to_o our_o devise_v 2._o he_o say_v it_o make_v much_o against_o the_o arian_n who_o deny_v his_o god_n head_n answer_v 1._o his_o way_n of_o convince_a gainsayers_a be_v by_o the_o word_n we_o must_v not_o devise_v way_n of_o our_o own_o to_o convince_v heretic_n moses_n and_o the_o prophet_n be_v god_n way_n be_v more_o powerful_a to_o convince_v than_o if_o one_o be_v send_v from_o the_o dead_a
a_o rational_a defence_n of_o nonconformity_n wherein_o the_o practice_n of_o non_fw-fr conformist_n be_v vindicated_n from_o promote_a popery_n and_o ruine_v the_o church_n impute_v to_o they_o by_o dr._n stillingfleet_n in_o his_o unreasonableness_n of_o separation_n also_o his_o argument_n from_o the_o principle_n and_o way_n of_o the_o reformer_n and_o first_o dissenter_n be_v answer_v and_o the_o case_n of_o the_o present_a separation_n true_o state_v and_o the_o blame_n of_o it_o lay_v where_o it_o ought_v to_o be_v and_o the_o way_n to_o union_n among_o protestant_n be_v point_v at_o by_o gilbert_n rule_n minister_n of_o the_o gospel_n ezek._n xliii_o 10_o 11._o thou_o son_n of_o man_n show_v the_o house_n to_o the_o house_n of_o israel_n that_o they_o may_v be_v ashamed_a of_o their_o iniquity_n and_o let_v they_o measure_v the_o pattern_n etc._n etc._n and_o if_o they_o be_v ashamed_a of_o all_o that_o they_o have_v do_v show_v they_o the_o form_n of_o the_o house_n and_o the_o fashion_n thereof_o etc._n etc._n london_n print_v for_o john_n salusbury_n at_o the_o rise_n sun_n near_o the_o royal-exchange_n in_o cornhill_n m_o dc_o lxxxix_o the_o preface_n the_o fierce_a contention_n of_o this_o age_n about_o the_o mint_n and_o annise_v and_o cummin_n of_o religion_n i_o mean_v religious_a ceremony_n that_o man_n have_v devise_v and_o impose_v have_v in_o a_o great_a measure_n hinder_v people_n from_o mind_v with_o that_o application_n that_o become_v the_o weighty_a thing_n of_o the_o law_n to_o wit_n the_o love_n of_o god_n and_o of_o our_o neighbour_n and_o due_a regard_n to_o the_o promote_a of_o true_a holiness_n and_o the_o salvation_n of_o man_n soul_n the_o heavy_a suffering_n of_o many_o in_o england_n and_o in_o scotland_n for_o not_o comply_v with_o such_o thing_n as_o their_o impose_v taskmaster_n do_v not_o so_o much_o as_o pretend_v to_o give_v scripture_n warrant_v for_o be_v too_o notorious_a to_o be_v deny_v and_o too_o smart_v to_o be_v 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or_o nature_n and_o civil_a custom_n have_v make_v such_o if_o we_o will_v content_v ourselves_o with_o that_o decency_n and_o order_n that_o be_v in_o the_o apostolic_a church_n our_o controversy_n will_v soon_o be_v at_o a_o end_n it_o be_v true_a even_o where_o scripture_n be_v take_v for_o the_o rule_n there_o may_v be_v some_o different_a apprehension_n about_o the_o meaning_n of_o this_o rule_n what_o it_o enjoin_v but_o they_o who_o sincere_o seek_v the_o mind_n of_o god_n in_o his_o word_n and_o depend_v on_o he_o for_o the_o light_n of_o his_o spirit_n ready_o will_v either_o find_v what_o they_o seek_v or_o will_v sober_o and_o peaceable_o differ_v from_o their_o brethren_n but_o when_o this_o rule_n be_v lay_v aside_o and_o man_n wisdom_n must_v enjoin_v what_o be_v fit_a in_o god_n worship_n even_o though_o they_o be_v learned_a wise_a and_o holy_a man_n and_o in_o authority_n in_o the_o church_n yet_o not_o infallible_o guide_v and_o much_o more_o when_o any_o of_o these_o quality_n be_v want_v there_o can_v hardly_o he_o a_o end_n of_o controversy_n it_o will_v be_v hard_a to_o set_v bound_n to_o their_o multiplicity_n of_o which_o the_o popish_a church_n be_v a_o fatal_a witness_n and_o hard_o to_o bring_v they_o to_o a_o end_n by_o compose_v they_o unless_o blind_a obedience_n be_v assert_v at_o least_o as_o to_o some_o thing_n and_o how_o many_o thing_n these_o shall_v be_v who_o know_v the_o other_o direction_n that_o the_o apostle_n give_v in_o that_o place_n be_v let_v we_o mind_n the_o same_o thing_n unity_n in_o design_n be_v very_o conducive_a to_o unity_n in_o heart_n and_o practice_n when_o all_o have_v one_o end_n before_o they_o they_o will_v the_o more_o ready_o fall_v into_o the_o same_o way_n lead_v to_o that_o end_n as_o when_o many_o be_v travel_v to_o the_o
same_o city_n they_o will_v ready_o go_v in_o the_o same_o road_n or_o if_o one_o take_v a_o gainer_n way_n as_o he_o think_v than_o another_o yet_o they_o will_v not_o fall_v out_o about_o that_o let_v we_o then_o all_o make_v the_o one_o thing_n needful_a our_o business_n let_v we_o mind_n serious_a and_o practical_a religion_n and_o in_o subordination_n to_o that_o let_v we_o mind_n the_o conversion_n and_o edification_n of_o the_o soul_n of_o the_o people_n under_o our_o charge_n let_v we_o set_v ourselves_o against_o immorality_n ignorance_n which_o alas_o do_v abound_v every_o where_o atheistical_a and_o careless_a neglect_n of_o religion_n let_v we_o labour_n to_o awaken_v the_o people_n to_o mind_n how_o they_o shall_v be_v save_v and_o put_v they_o in_o mind_n of_o the_o hazard_n of_o rest_v on_o out_o side_n worship_n whither_o it_o be_v with_o or_o without_o the_o ceremony_n that_o we_o controvert_v about_o if_o we_o all_o have_v a_o true_a idea_n of_o that_o religion_n that_o we_o shall_v labour_v to_o instill_v into_o the_o mind_n of_o people_n and_o have_v that_o impression_n if_o the_o weight_n and_o indispensable_a necessity_n of_o it_o that_o the_o apostle_n express_v 2_o cor._n 5._o 11._o know_v therefore_o the_o terror_n of_o the_o lord_n we_o persuade_v man_n if_o we_o be_v one_o in_o this_o it_o will_v much_o contribute_v to_o oneness_n in_o thing_n that_o be_v more_o remote_a from_o the_o essence_n and_o life_n of_o religion_n but_o while_o we_o mind_v our_o own_o thing_n which_o must_v needs_o be_v very_o different_a while_o one_o sort_n be_v for_o their_o grandeur_n and_o riches_n and_o dominion_n and_o ease_n and_o another_o be_v for_o his_o ease_n and_o applause_n among_o one_o sort_n of_o man_n while_o we_o be_v for_o keep_v up_o a_o party_n for_o victory_n over_o they_o that_o we_o contend_v with_o and_o for_o maintain_v our_o credit_n so_o as_o we_o be_v ashamed_a to_o change_v lest_o we_o fall_v under_o the_o imputation_n of_o be_v once_o in_o a_o mistake_n i_o say_v while_o these_o different_a end_n and_o motive_n be_v suffer_v to_o influence_n we_o we_o must_v be_v far_o from_o agreement_n about_o any_o thing_n that_o have_v be_v the_o subject_a of_o our_o debate_n while_o lust_n war_n in_o our_o member_n war_n and_o fight_n will_v be_v the_o product_n of_o they_o ja._n 4._o 1._o as_o this_o purge_n of_o ourselves_o from_o bad_a thing_n may_v conduce_v to_o the_o church_n peace_n so_o may_v a_o joint_a endeavour_n on_o both_o side_n to_o purge_v the_o church_n from_o bad_a man_n a_o ignorant_a scandalous_a heady_a and_o unsober_a ministry_n be_v a_o great_a let_v to_o peace_n god_n will_v not_o be_v at_o peace_n with_o the_o church_n while_o such_o be_v countenance_v and_o good_a man_n can_v with_o any_o satisfaction_n behold_v such_o scandal_n to_o religion_n and_o such_o effectual_a instrument_n of_o the_o ruin_n of_o soul_n continue_v in_o the_o church_n such_o minister_n be_v makebate_n in_o the_o church_n while_o some_o effectual_a course_n be_v not_o take_v to_o remove_v they_o the_o church_n be_v like_a to_o have_v little_a peace_n either_o with_o god_n or_o in_o herself_o let_v all_o then_o if_o they_o will_v see_v religion_n flourish_v and_o the_o church_n settle_v in_o peace_n contribute_v their_o endeavour_n to_o get_v the_o unsavoury_a salt_n that_o have_v long_o make_v we_o unpleasing_a to_o god_n cast_v out_o and_o to_o oppose_v the_o entrance_n of_o they_o into_o the_o holy_a function_n of_o the_o ministry_n who_o be_v not_o in_o some_o tolerable_a measure_n such_o as_o the_o apostle_n require_v and_o be_v not_o in_o a_o probable_a capacity_n by_o their_o life_n and_o doctrine_n and_o diligence_n to_o do_v good_a to_o soul_n and_o let_v none_o countenance_v or_o plead_v for_o unfit_a person_n either_o to_o be_v admit_v into_o or_o keep_v in_o the_o church_n pity_v to_o man_n person_n or_o family_n be_v horrid_a cruelty_n when_o the_o ruin_n of_o soul_n be_v the_o necessary_a consequent_a of_o such_o act_n when_o love_v to_o the_o salvation_n of_o man_n bear_v sway_v with_o we_o above_o zeal_n for_o a_o party_n we_o will_v easy_o be_v prevail_v with_o in_o this_o if_o this_o piece_n of_o reformation_n be_v endeavour_v all_o rank_n must_v put_v hand_n to_o it_o the_o people_n by_o discover_v such_o where_o they_o be_v and_o not_o call_v nor_o countenance_v they_o when_o they_o want_v a_o guide_n to_o their_o soul_n and_o magistrate_n by_o endeavour_v the_o regulate_v of_o such_o law_n as_o do_v in_o any_o wise_a open_a the_o door_n to_o such_o man_n to_o enter_v or_o protect_v they_o when_o they_o already_o be_v in_o place_n and_o minister_n in_o their_o station_n by_o reject_v such_o candidate_n of_o the_o ministry_n as_o be_v not_o due_o qualify_v and_o censure_v the_o immorality_n of_o such_o as_o have_v make_v a_o shift_n to_o get_v into_o that_o office_n notwithstanding_o of_o their_o notorious_a unworthiness_n in_o order_n to_o obtain_v the_o peace_n of_o the_o church_n which_o we_o all_o prize_n and_o desire_v reformation_n be_v also_o necessary_a peace_n and_o purity_n will_v not_o long_o be_v separate_v the_o one_o from_o the_o other_o personal_a reformation_n must_v not_o be_v want_v if_o it_o will_v give_v hope_n of_o peace_n even_o from_o enemy_n prov._n 16._o 7._o much_o more_o be_v it_o the_o way_n to_o be_v bless_v with_o peace_n from_o our_o friend_n without_o it_o there_o be_v no_o peace_n with_o god_n nor_o man_n but_o such_o as_o be_v a_o curse_n to_o they_o who_o have_v it_o 2_o king._n 9_o 22._o isa._n 32._o 17_o 18._o church_n reformation_n must_v also_o true_o be_v endeavour_v by_o we_o if_o we_o will_v have_v church-peace_n it_o be_v no_o token_n for_o good_a when_o sinful_a evil_n image_n of_o jealousy_n that_o provoke_v the_o lord_n to_o jealousy_n be_v in_o the_o church_n and_o yet_o all_o agree_v in_o these_o way_n none_o lament_v they_o none_o reprove_v they_o none_o take_v care_n to_o keep_v their_o garment_n clean_o of_o the_o corruption_n of_o the_o time_n like_o those_o who_o the_o lord_n do_v so_o high_o commend_v rev._n 3._o 3._o if_o we_o expect_v peace_n we_o must_v be_v humble_v before_o the_o lord_n for_o our_o personal_a and_o public_a deviation_n and_o be_v ready_a to_o confess_v they_o before_o the_o world_n we_o must_v take_v shame_n if_o we_o expect_v that_o he_o shall_v favour_v and_o honour_v we_o see_v ezek._n 4●_n 10_o 11._o while_o we_o be_v fix_v in_o evil_a way_n and_o will_v not_o be_v convince_v or_o so_o proud_a that_o we_o be_v ashamed_a to_o acknowledge_v that_o we_o have_v be_v out_o of_o the_o way_n god_n nor_o man_n can_v make_v no_o peace_n with_o we_o neither_o be_v this_o all_o but_o we_o must_v turn_v from_o our_o evil_a way_n of_o whatever_o sort_n they_o be_v particular_o while_o church_n grievance_n be_v continue_v while_o no_o effectual_a course_n be_v take_v and_o that_o unanimous_o and_o with_o serious_a application_n to_o remove_v scandal_n to_o satisfy_v the_o conscience_n and_o quiet_a the_o mind_n of_o such_o as_o be_v grieve_v how_o can_v attempt_n for_o peace_n have_v any_o success_n i_o suppose_v it_o will_v not_o be_v deny_v by_o sober_a and_o intelligent_a man_n that_o there_o be_v fault_n in_o the_o church_n though_o some_o do_v strange_o hyperbolize_v in_o declaim_v of_o her_o perfection_n but_o they_o that_o be_v in_o that_o strain_n of_o whatever_o party_n they_o be_v do_v little_o understand_v the_o scripture_n pattern_n and_o the_o churchway_n that_o themselves_o own_o and_o do_v not_o compare_v the_o one_o with_o the_o other_o non-residences_a plurality_n want_v of_o parochial_a discipline_n abuse_v of_o excommunication_n make_v that_o which_o pass_v for_o church_n discipline_n and_o censure_n to_o be_v more_o destructive_a to_o man_n purse_n than_o to_o their_o vice_n and_o other_o such_o thing_n be_v too_o gross_o evil_a to_o be_v defend_v and_o too_o well_o know_v to_o be_v deny_v or_o dissemble_v it_o be_v one_o good_a step_n towards_o peace_n if_o there_o may_v be_v a_o prospect_n of_o get_v such_o enormity_n do_v away_o and_o the_o affair_n of_o the_o house_n of_o god_n manage_v in_o a_o way_n more_o like_a that_o of_o the_o gospel_n it_o may_v also_o make_v for_o our_o peace_n if_o all_o of_o we_o of_o both_o party_n shall_v put_v on_o a_o spirit_n of_o meekness_n and_o rather_o lament_v what_o we_o can_v approve_v than_o reproach_n one_o another_o for_o such_o thing_n a_o unsober_a and_o fierce_a spirit_n have_v too_o much_o appear_v on_o both_o hand_n our_o zeal_n for_o and_o against_o the_o thing_n controvert_v be_v no_o way_n proportion_v to_o the_o thing_n themselves_o many_o have_v not_o a_o different_a degree_n of_o zeal_n against_o the_o gross_a part_n of_o popery_n from_o what_o
of_o puritan_n p._n 102._o he_o show_v that_o the_o same_o canon_n be_v now_o nine_o year_n after_o ratify_v by_o parliament_n the_o bishop_n begin_v to_o urge_v subscription_n more_o severe_o than_o before_o which_o make_v many_o dissenter_n keep_v their_o private_a meeting_n in_o field_n word_n their_o friend_n house_n etc._n etc._n and_o may_v not_o one_o rational_o think_v that_o the_o jesuit_n may_v in_o their_o own_o way_n prompt_v the_o bishop_n to_o this_o severity_n as_o well_o as_o the_o dissenter_n not_o to_o yield_v to_o it_o sect._n 20._o the_o notion_n that_o jesuit_n have_v of_o spiritual_a prayer_n mention_v p._n 15._o some_o of_o they_o extravagant_a enough_o the_o learned_a dr._n use_v as_o a_o repreach_n to_o the_o nonconformist_n how_o rational_o let_v the_o world_n judge_n see_v we_o never_o vent_v nor_o own_v such_o fancy_n only_o we_o think_v set_a form_n of_o prayer_n unfit_a to_o be_v use_v where_o minister_n be_v tolerable_o gift_v to_o pray_v without_o they_o and_o that_o all_o the_o pray_v that_o we_o read_v of_o to_o have_v be_v either_o practise_v or_o commend_v in_o the_o apostolic_a church_n be_v without_o book_n the_o spirit_n not_o the_o book_n help_v their_o infirmity_n even_o as_o to_o what_o they_o be_v to_o pray_v for_o or_o the_o matter_n of_o prayer_n rom._n 8._o 26._o when_o he_o say_v p._n 16._o that_o it_o be_v not_o improbable_a the_o jesuit_n be_v the_o first_o setter_n up_o of_o this_o way_n in_o england_n ●nd_v that_o it_o be_v never_o know_v here_o or_o in_o any_o other_o reform_a church_n before_o this_o time_n if_o he_o me●n_v prayer_n without_o a_o set-form_n if_o he_o mean_v any_o thing_n else_o it_o be_v not_o to_o the_o purpose_n it_o be_v a_o rash_a and_o untrue_a assertion_n be_v ever_o prayer_n without_o book_n condemn_v by_o any_o reform_v church_n yea_o can_v any_o reform_a church_n be_v instance_a where_o it_o have_v not_o be_v and_o be_v not_o use_v or_o let_v he_o mention_v a_o reform_a church_n that_o have_v restrain_v extemporal_a prayer_n and_o impose_v a_o set-form_n but_o this_o debate_n he_o resume_v afterward_o and_o till_o then_o we_o shall_v leave_v it_o it_o do_v not_o savour_n of_o tha●_n 〈◊〉_d regard_n to_o the_o spirit_n of_o prayer_n that_o be_v promise_v to_o be_v ●●ured_v out_o on_o the_o people_n of_o god_n z●●h_n 12._o 10._o to_o mock_v the_o use_v o●_n his_o help_n to_o pray_v without_o a_o book_n as_o a_o charm_n effectual_a with_o judicious_a people_n and_o to_o je●r_v the_o zeal_n and_o warmth_n of_o devotion_n that_o appear_v in_o it_o many_o know_v the_o advantage_n of_o what_o he_o think_v but_o a_o fancy_n let_v he_o abound_v in_o his_o own_o sense_n for_o de_fw-fr gustiius_fw-la non_fw-la est_fw-la 〈◊〉_d if_o by_o means_n of_o this_o manner_n of_o worship_v god_n the_o division_n wonderful_o 〈◊〉_d as_o he_o say_v i_o hope_v it_o be_v not_o the_o debauch_a nor_o unserious_a that_o be_v so_o take_v with_o that_o way_n and_o therefore_o this_o increase_n be_v no_o reproach_n to_o it_o sect._n 21._o he_o cit_v the_o admonition_n give_v in_o to_o the_o parliament_n 14_o eliz._n of_o which_o he_o say_v the_o author_n mr._n f●ller's_n church_n history_n p._n 102_o 103._o make_v mr._n thomas_n cartwright_n author_n both_o of_o the_o first_o and_o second_o admonition_n will_v have_v neither_o papist_n nor_o o●●ers_n e●●strained_v to_o communicate_v i_o do_v not_o understand_v whether_o any_o person_n shall_v be_v constrain_v to_o partake_v of_o the_o lord_n supper_n for_o i_o suppose_v that_o be_v mean_v otherwise_o than_o by_o forcible_a persuasion_n which_o be_v the_o compulsion_n mean_v luk._n 14._o 23._o brugensis_n say_v it_o express_v vi●●●vangelij_fw-la so_o other_o that_o ordinance_n be_v never_o appoint_v by_o the_o lord_n to_o be_v a_o test_n of_o a_o man_n profession_n while_o he_o be_v uncapable_a to_o improve_v it_o to_o high_a end_n but_o if_o the_o admonition_n plead_v for_o tolerate_v of_o popery_n i_o have_v not_o the_o book_n by_o i_o and_o therefore_o can_v determine_v in_o this_o we_o be_v far_o from_o approve_v it_o though_o we_o think_v we_o have_v a_o right_n by_o the_o gospel_n not_o only_o to_o toleration_n but_o further_a countenance_n for_o our_o way_n yet_o if_o we_o may_v choose_v we_o have_v rather_o be_v under_o the_o severe_a persecution_n than_o have_v the_o least_o hand_n in_o obtain_v liberty_n to_o that_o idolatry_n we_o must_v not_o do_v yea_o nor_o wish_v evil_a that_o good_a may_v come_v what_o he_o cit_v out_o of_o archb._n whit_n gift_n and_o archb._n grindal_n p._n 17_o 18._o i_o look_v on_o as_o invective_n against_o the_o nonconformist_n of_o the_o same_o stamp_n with_o his_o own_o they_o be_v party_n and_o therefore_o not_o to_o be_v adduce_v as_o witness_n dr._n sutclife_o say_v no_o more_o than_o we_o will_v say_v that_o our_o division_n give_v advantage_n to_o the_o papist_n let_v they_o who_o be_v the_o culpable_a cause_n of_o the_o division_n look_v to_o it_o the_o prophecy_n cite_v out_o of_o mr._n solden_a be_v to_o the_o same_o purpose_n and_o need_v no_o other_o answer_n sect._n 22._o the_o politic_a hellish_a advice_n give_v by_o the_o jesuit_n contzen_n and_o signior_n ballarini_fw-la make_v nothing_o against_o we_o at_o all_o though_o he_o fill_v p._n 19_o 20_o 21._o with_o they_o for_o all_o that_o can_v be_v thence_o infer_v be_v that_o they_o labour_v to_o divide_v protestant_n and_o this_o d●vision_n fall_v out_o according_a to_o their_o wish_n now_o the_o division_n have_v its_o rise_n from_o the_o imposition_n of_o one_o party_n that_o assume_v the_o name_n of_o the_o church_n and_o the_o scruple_n of_o another_o party_n if_o the_o church_n impose_v that_o which_o be_v lawful_a and_o necessary_a and_o the_o other_o party_n scruple_n that_o and_o so_o divide_v in_o that_o case_n the_o dissenter_n must_v bear_v the_o blame_n of_o the_o division_n and_o be_v guilty_a of_o cooperate_a with_o the_o common_a enemy_n in_o ruine_v the_o protestant_a religion_n but_o if_o the_o church_n by_o her_o imposition_n burden_n the_o conscience_n of_o her_o member_n with_o thing_n that_o she_o count_v indifferent_a i._n e._n needless_a and_o the_o scrupler_n reckon_v as_o unlawful_a and_o have_v just_a ground_n so_o to_o do_v then_o the_o blame_n of_o separate_a and_o of_o help_v the_o papist_n to_o ruin_v our_o religion_n lie_v at_o the_o church_n door_n wherefore_o all_o this_o may_v have_v be_v spare_v let_v the_o learned_a dr._n sound_o refute_v our_o principle_n and_o then_o cast_v what_o blame_v he_o will_v on_o we_o but_o till_o that_o be_v do_v which_o we_o expect_v not_o let_v he_o ●ake_v heed_n where_o the_o blame_n will_v be_v lay_v when_o the_o secret_n of_o man_n shall_v be_v judge_v it_o may_v be_v observe_v in_o these_o advice_n that_o the_o jesuit_n as_o their_o master_n the_o devil_n often_o do_v speak_v some_o truth_n out_o of_o a_o bad_a end_n sect._n 23._o next_o he_o come_v p._n 22._o to_o reproach_v we_o with_o the_o indulgence_n that_o be_v grant_v march_n 1671-2_a as_o be_v procure_v by_o the_o papist_n if_o any_o nonconformist_n have_v a_o hand_n in_o procure_v liberty_n which_o i_o do_v not_o believe_v to_o they_o i_o think_v their_o brethren_n will_v disow_v they_o in_o that_o act._n that_o papist_n have_v a_o hand_n in_o it_o be_v not_o improbable_a both_o for_o their_o own_o ease_n and_o to_o make_v the_o difference_n among_o protestant_n the_o more_o conspicuous_a but_o be_v it_o fit_a that_o we_o shall_v forbear_v a_o necessary_a duty_n because_o of_o their_o ill_a design_n we_o do_v not_o join_v in_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o church_n before_o that_o but_o worship_v god_n after_o his_o own_o institution_n without_o humane_a ceremony_n all_o the_o change_n in_o our_o way_n on_o that_o occasion_n be_v that_o what_o before_o we_o have_v do_v in_o corner_n and_o with_o hazard_n than_o we_o do_v safe_o and_o open_o and_o what_o fault_n be_v in_o this_o but_o one_o say_v that_o the_o presbyterian_o suspect_v the_o kindness_n and_o join_v with_o the_o conformist_n like_o wise_a man_n and_o refuse_v the_o bait_n who_o say_v so_o or_o on_o what_o ground_n i_o know_v not_o we_o go_v no_o further_o from_o the_o conformist_n than_o conscience_n of_o duty_n have_v make_v we_o do_v before_o but_o it_o have_v be_v a_o strange_a thing_n if_o when_o liberty_n be_v grant_v we_o to_o worship_n god_n in_o his_o own_o way_n we_o have_v then_o join_v with_o a_o superstitious_a worship_n which_o we_o can_v not_o do_v before_o if_o that_o author_n mean_v that_o presbyterian_o be_v then_o willing_a to_o concur_v with_o the_o conformist_n as_o their_o protestant_a brethren_n in_o all_o thing_n lawful_a to_o disappoint_v the_o design_n of_o the_o common_a enemy_n we_o approve_v of_o that_o
make_v a_o part_n of_o these_o sect._n 6._o but_o because_o the_o diversity_n of_o civil_a power_n and_o frequent_a clashing_n of_o they_o in_o divers_a nation_n make_v this_o hardly_o practicable_a therefore_o the_o high_a church-power_n be_v usual_o in_o national_a assembly_n and_o though_o i_o be_o far_o from_o the_o opinion_n of_o they_o who_o think_v that_o church_n government_n shall_v be_v model_v according_a to_o the_o civil_a government_n of_o the_o nation_n the_o contrary_a of_o which_o i_o have_v assert_v elsewhere_o against_o the_o learned_a author_n who_o i_o now_o dispute_v with_o yet_o in_o this_o particular_a it_o not_o only_o may_v but_o must_v be_v suit_v to_o the_o extent_n of_o the_o civil_a government_n this_o be_v no_o essential_a part_n of_o church-government_n nor_o institute_v but_o a_o circumstance_n of_o it_o determinable_a by_o necessity_n and_o conveniency_n on_o the_o same_o score_n where_o a_o congregation_n can_v have_v no_o other_o to_o associate_v with_o it_o may_v act_v independent_o and_o be_v blameless_a 6._o though_o christian_n shall_v so_o divide_v themselves_o into_o particular_a church_n as_o they_o may_v attend_v the_o ordinance_n together_o ordinary_o yet_o be_v not_o this_o meeting_n together_o but_o their_o be_v under_o the_o particular_a inspection_n of_o the_o same_o officer_n that_o make_v one_o particular_a church_n for_o 1._o one_o congregation_n may_v increase_v to_o that_o number_n that_o one_o place_n can_v contain_v they_o and_o yet_o continue_v one_o congregation_n till_o they_o be_v regular_o divide_v thus_o it_o be_v in_o some_o of_o the_o ancient_a church_n 2._o where_o parochial_a bound_n be_v so_o large_a as_o all_o the_o people_n can_v always_o travel_v to_o one_o place_n the_o pastor_n or_o pastor_n of_o the_o church_n may_v well_o have_v place_n more_o convenient_a for_o some_o of_o they_o where_o he_o or_o they_o may_v administer_v the_o ordinance_n to_o they_o sometime_o as_o in_o chapel_n of_o ease_n and_o yet_o they_o all_o continue_v one_o particular_a church_n 3._o it_o be_v a_o frequent_a case_n with_o family_n that_o but_o a_o part_n of_o they_o at_o one_o time_n can_v leave_v the_o house_n to_o wait_v on_o public_a ordinance_n and_o the_o rest_n at_o another_o time_n yet_o be_v they_o one_o congregation_n 4._o in_o a_o time_n of_o persecution_n where_o the_o flock_n be_v but_o small_a and_o may_v easy_o be_v contain_v in_o one_o house_n the_o danger_n of_o numerous_a meeting_n may_v be_v such_o as_o it_o may_v be_v needful_a that_o but_o a_o part_n of_o they_o shall_v come_v together_o at_o once_o and_o that_o by_o turn_n as_o we_o be_v necessitate_v at_o this_o time_n to_o do_v this_o do_v not_o make_v divers_a congregation_n all_o this_o consider_v we_o be_v little_o concern_v whether_o in_o the_o primitive_a time_n there_o be_v but_o one_o church_n in_o a_o city_n or_o more_o whether_o those_o call_v church_n do_v meet_v in_o one_o place_n or_o not_o as_o long_o as_o the_o one_o party_n can_v prove_v that_o each_o meeting_n be_v rule_v independant_o by_o itself_o nor_o the_o other_o that_o a_o diocesan_n bishop_n rule_v over_o more_o church_n than_o one_o and_o over_o their_o presbyter_n sect._n 7._o before_o i_o part_v with_o this_o discourse_n of_o the_o dr_n about_o the_o unity_n of_o church_n i_o take_v notice_n of_o his_o confident_a assert_v p._n 226._o the_o impossibility_n of_o the_o change_n of_o church-government_n so_o sudden_o from_o its_o first_o institution_n even_o though_o the_o church_n fall_v into_o heresy_n very_o soon_o yet_o this_o change_n can_v not_o be_v the_o same_o thing_n he_o have_v assert_v before_o and_o i_o have_v answer_v it_o praef._n s●ct_n 9_o his_o further_a consideration_n to_o enforce_v what_o he_o have_v say_v be_v not_o weighty_a to_o wit_n that_o government_n be_v so_o nice_a and_o tender_a a_o point_n th●t_v they_o cut_v of_o who_o hand_n it_o be_v take_v by_o those_o who_o usurp_v it_o will_v certain_o have_v complain_v this_o he_o enlarge_v upon_o but_o i_o answer_v 1._o it_o may_v be_v they_o do_v that_o they_o do_v not_o be_v not_o prove_v by_o the_o silence_n of_o history_n a_o negative_a argument_n here_o be_v not_o concludent_fw-la especial_o consider_v the_o lameness_n of_o the_o history_n of_o the_o first_o century_n and_o what_o we_o have_v of_o it_o be_v by_o those_o who_o have_v a_o hand_n in_o the_o usurpation_n 2._o he_o do_v not_o consider_v that_o man_n may_v sleep_v while_o other_o be_v rob_v they_o as_o christ_n foretell_v matth._n 13._o 25._o 3._o we_o may_v rational_o think_v that_o government_n in_o the_o church_n which_o then_o be_v no_o lordly_a dominion_n but_o a_o painful_a ministry_n or_o servi●e_v and_o make_v unpleasant_a by_o the_o cross_a humour_n of_o they_o that_o need_v it_o most_o be_v not_o then_o so_o ●ice_n and_o tender_a a_o point_n to_o honest_a and_o well-meaning_a presbyter_n as_o it_o be_v now_o to_o our_o aspire_a churchman_n they_o be_v man_n of_o another_o stamp_n they_o be_v willing_a to_o lie_v by_o if_o the_o work_n be_v do_v and_o they_o may_v think_v that_o other_o may_v do_v it_o better_o than_o they_o this_o be_v not_o to_o justify_v they_o but_o to_o take_v off_o man_n wonder_n at_o this_o and_o man_n of_o high_a part_n and_o spirit_n may_v easy_o by_o degree_n wrest_v power_n out_o of_o the_o hand_n of_o as_o good_a man_n as_o themselves_o who_o be_v not_o so_o foreseeing_a as_o they_o shall_v have_v be_v nor_o so_o tincture_v with_o ambition_n as_o they_o though_o other_o way_n good_a and_o eminent_a men._n and_o we_o need_v the_o less_o wonder_n at_o this_o when_o we_o consider_v that_o this_o thing_n be_v not_o do_v sudden_o but_o by_o insensible_a step_n in_o the_o space_n of_o three_o or_o four_o hundred_o year_n cyprian_n who_o the_o dr._n lay_v most_o weight_n on_o in_o this_o matter_n live_v in_o the_o three_o century_n &_o even_o then_o we_o deny_v that_o diocesan_n episcopacy_n be_v settle_v what_o the_o dr._n say_v under_o this_o head_n of_o the_o plurality_n of_o congregation_n in_o the_o several_a city_n that_o seem_v to_o prove_v episcopal_a power_n over_o presbyter_n shall_v be_v answer_v 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d in_o the_o next_o section_n where_o it_o be_v more_o proper_a also_o what_o he_o here_o say_v against_o popular_a election_n be_v to_o be_v consider_v in_o its_o place_n because_o i_o will_v not_o confound_v subject_n so_o divers_a sect_n iii_o whether_o diocesan_n episcopacy_n be_v lawful_a the_o second_o plea_n for_o separation_n that_o the_o learned_a dr._n consider_v be_v the_o vnlawfulness_n of_o diocesan_n episcopacy_n which_o he_o take_v a_o great_a deal_n of_o pain_n to_o prove_v to_o be_v 1._o primitive_a 2._o not_o repugnant_a to_o any_o institution_n of_o christ_n 3._o that_o its_o discipline_n as_o exercise_v in_o england_n do_v not_o overthrow_v the_o be_v of_o parochial_a church_n all_o this_o he_o manage_v sect._n 8_o etc._n etc._n i_o may_v shun_v this_o whole_a debate_n have_v above_o disow_v this_o as_o a_o plea_n for_o separation_n except_o in_o so_o far_o as_o we_o be_v require_v to_o own_o it_o but_o because_o we_o look_v on_o this_o episcopacy_n as_o unlawful_a to_o be_v use_v or_o own_a i_o shall_v examine_v what_o the_o dr._n say_v in_o defence_n of_o it_o this_o be_v do_v already_o to_o much_o more_o advantage_n than_o can_v be_v expect_v from_o i_o by_o the_o learned_a author_n of_o no_o evidence_n for_o diocesan_n church_n or_o bishop_n etc._n etc._n and_o the_o defence_n of_o that_o piece_n under_o the_o title_n of_o diocesan_n church_n not_o yet_o discover_v in_o the_o primitive_a time_n which_o may_v supersede_n all_o that_o i_o have_v to_o say_v and_o shall_v make_v i_o say_v the_o less_o refer_v the_o reader_n to_o these_o two_o most_o learned_a book_n yet_o lest_o there_o shall_v be_v a_o hiatus_fw-la in_o this_o discourse_n i_o shall_v not_o whole_o decline_v this_o debate_n with_o the_o doctor_n s●ct_n 2._o mr._n b_n frame_n of_o church-government_n which_o the_o dr._n disprove_v p._n 242_o 243._o be_v singular_a himself_o can_v best_o defend_v it_o wherefore_o i_o leave_v it_o and_o shall_v attend_v the_o dr_n proof_n of_o the_o three_o particular_n above_o mention_v first_o assert_v a_o few_o thing_n that_o may_v clear_v our_o way_n 1._o that_o it_o be_v not_o the_o name_n of_o bishop_n that_o we_o quarrel_n it_o be_v apply_v in_o scripture_n to_o all_o the_o ordinary_a roll_a officer_n in_o the_o church_n as_o distinguish_v from_o her_o servant_n the_o deacon_n phil._n 1._o 1._o and_o the_o exercise_n of_o it_o call_v a_o good_a work_n 1_o tim._n 3._o 1._o and_o apply_v to_o all_o the_o elder_n of_o ephesus_n act._n 20._o 28._o 2._o we_o meddle_v not_o with_o their_o title_n and_o revenue_n those_o be_v the_o magistrate_n
apprehension_n can_v warrant_v we_o to_o break_v the_o church_n in_o piece_n the_o best_a ground_a scruple_n can_v only_o warrant_v our_o peaceable_a withdraw_a and_o worship_v god_n apart_o which_o may_v consist_v with_o the_o church_n be_v whole_a and_o sound_a he_o do_v exceed_o wrong_n mr._n b._n and_o other_o in_o that_o he_o impute_v to_o they_o a_o opinion_n that_o better_a mean_n of_o edification_n be_v by_o itself_o a_o sufficient_a ground_n of_o separate_n from_o a_o church_n if_o any_o have_v ever_o assert_v that_o let_v they_o bear_v their_o blame_n it_o may_v be_v some_o may_v mention_v this_o as_o a_o cumulative_a inducement_n to_o join_v with_o other_o society_n but_o none_o of_o we_o ever_o hold_v that_o this_o alone_a can_v warrant_v a_o separation_n and_o yet_o the_o dr._n be_v at_o a_o great_a deal_n of_o pain_n to_o prove_v that_o neither_o the_o old_a separatist_n nor_o the_o new-england-man_n ever_o hold_v such_o a_o opinion_n which_o he_o may_v have_v get_v we_o to_o yield_v to_o he_o without_o his_o spend_v five_o page_n in_o the_o proof_n of_o it_o but_o some_o man_n labour_v most_o in_o that_o which_o be_v least_o necessary_a i_o know_v not_o what_o name_n to_o give_v to_o the_o dr_n assertion_n p._n 117._o that_o this_o great_a mean_n of_o edification_n be_v now_o the_o main_a support_n of_o the_o present_a separation_n nothing_o can_v be_v speak_v with_o less_o semblance_n of_o truth_n sect_n ii_o of_o the_o ministry_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n from_o sect._n 7._o and_o forward_o the_o dr._n debate_v against_o separation_n that_o be_v ground_v on_o the_o church_n want_n of_o true_a or_o right_o qualify_v minister_n here_o i_o shall_v have_v but_o little_a debate_n with_o he_o i_o shall_v to_o cut_v off_o debate_n as_o much_o as_o may_v be_v lay_v down_o my_o own_o thought_n which_o i_o think_v be_v not_o different_a from_o those_o of_o most_o sober_a nonconformist_n especial_o presbyterian_o in_o a_o few_o particular_n 1._o we_o look_v on_o some_o of_o the_o conform_v minister_n as_o person_n of_o great_a worth_n and_o excellent_a ministerial_a qualification_n and_o can_v live_v with_o great_a satisfaction_n under_o their_o ministry_n if_o it_o be_v permit_v to_o we_o without_o our_o sin._n 2._o other_o of_o they_o we_o know_v to_o be_v very_o bad_a man_n and_o ill_o qualify_v for_o the_o work_n that_o they_o undertake_v they_o be_v stranger_n in_o england_n who_o have_v not_o see_v this_o 3._o we_o be_v dissatisfy_v with_o some_o thing_n in_o the_o call_v and_o practice_n of_o all_o the_o present_a clergy_n we_o think_v the_o very_a office_n of_o some_o of_o they_o unlawful_a as_o bishop_n dean_n arch-deacon_n etc._n etc._n and_o their_o ordination_n by_o a_o bishop_n alone_a not_o warrantable_a their_o call_n by_o patron_n we_o judge_v such_o also_o and_o their_o use_v the_o liturgy_n and_o ceremony_n we_o look_v on_o as_o sinful_a these_o thing_n i_o now_o only_o assert_v and_o shall_v debate_v they_o with_o the_o dr._n as_o they_o fall_v in_o 4._o yet_o we_o deny_v not_o any_o of_o they_o on_o any_o or_o all_o of_o these_o account_n to_o be_v true_a minister_n nor_o to_o have_v the_o substance_n of_o a_o lawful_a call_v let_v this_o be_v understand_v of_o bishop_n and_o dean_n etc._n etc._n as_o minister_n not_o as_o in_o these_o superior_a office_n 5._o though_o we_o think_v a_o better_a and_o more_o edify_a ministry_n than_o that_o which_o most_o of_o the_o people_n of_o e●gland_n live_v under_o very_o desirable_a yet_o we_o do_v not_o think_v that_o any_o defect_n that_o be_v in_o their_o ministerial_a call_n or_o in_o the_o truth_n of_o their_o ministry_n be_v a_o sufficient_a ground_n for_o separate_v from_o the_o church_n sect._n 2._o these_o thing_n be_v premise_v i_o be_o resolve_v not_o to_o take_v the_o defence_n of_o all_o that_o some_o have_v write_v of_o the_o defect_n of_o the_o ministry_n as_o a_o ground_n of_o separation_n though_o i_o find_v many_o thing_n cite_v by_o the_o dr._n that_o at_o first_o view_n may_v seem_v to_o have_v that_o tendency_n a●d_v he_o improve_v they_o with_o all_o the_o advantage_n that_o he_o can_v and_o yet_o be_v not_o so_o mean_v in_o the_o very_a entrance_n of_o this_o discourse_n i_o meet_v with_o a_o most_o unjust_a imputation_n lay_v on_o we_o by_o the_o dr._n in_o general_n say_v he_o they_o declare_v that_o they_o only_o look_v on_o those_o as_o true_a church_n which_o have_v such_o pastor_n as_o they_o approve_v and_o for_o this_o cit_v not_o o●e_a author_n but_o mr._n baxter_n be_v this_o fair_a deal_n do_v ever_o the_o nonconformist_n make_v mr._n baxter_n their_o general_a representative_a or_o have_v he_o so_o much_o as_o pretend_v to_o write_v in_o the_o name_n of_o they_o all_o be_v it_o candid_a in_o we_o if_o we_o shall_v pick_v out_o some_o passage_n out_o of_o dr._n sherlock_n book_n of_o the_o knowledge_n of_o christ_n and_o impute_v those_o opinion_n to_o the_o conformist_n as_o their_o doctrine_n in_o general_n beside_o mr._n baxter_n nor_o no_o nonconformist_a never_o make_v their_o approbation_n the_o rule_n by_o which_o minister_n be_v to_o be_v judge_v the_o have_v of_o who_o make_v a_o true_a church_n but_o the_o dr._n look_v on_o we_o as_o a_o company_n of_o silly_a ridiculous_a man_n and_o be_v please_v often_o so_o to_o expose_v we_o mr._n baxter_n notion_n about_o true_a pastor_n and_o true_a church_n i_o know_v he_o himself_o can_v best_o defend_v and_o therefore_o i_o leave_v he_o and_o the_o dr._n to_o debate_v that_o case_n sect._n 3_o he_o say_v sect._n 8._o if_o the_o people_n judge_v their_o minister_n to_o be_v unworthy_a or_o incompetent_a they_o allow_v th●m_a liberty_n to_o withdraw_v and_o to_o separate_v from_o they_o and_o promise_v to_o prove_v it_o from_o many_o passage_n in_o several_a book_n of_o mr._n baxter_n and_o other_o still_o he_o represent_v we_o as_o make_v the_o people_n judgement_n the_o rule_n and_o that_o this_o judgement_n be_v sufficient_a ground_n of_o separation_n not_o consider_v whether_o their_o judgement_n be_v right_a or_o wrong_n or_o that_o there_o be_v a_o superior_a rule_n by_o which_o all_o judgement_n whether_o of_o people_n or_o other_o be_v to_o be_v govern_v all_o this_o we_o disow_v neither_o can_v the_o dr._n prove_v that_o any_o of_o we_o ever_o own_v it_o yea_o we_o further_o deny_v that_o we_o own_o a_o power_n in_o the_o people_n to_o withdraw_v and_o separate_v from_o every_o pastor_n who_o be_v real_o unworthy_a and_o incompetent_a but_o what_o he_o assert_v he_o endeavour_v to_o prove_v by_o three_o argument_n 1._o say_v he_o p._n 122._o they_o leave_v it_o to_o the_o people_n power_n notwithstanding_o all_o legal_a establishment_n to_o own_o or_o disown_n who_o they_o judge_v fit_a this_o we_o deny_v and_o the_o proof_n he_o bring_v of_o it_o be_v mr._n b._n speak_v against_o the_o right_n of_o patronage_n and_o the_o power_n of_o magistrate_n in_o these_o case_n for_o the_o unalterable_a right_n of_o the_o people_n mr._n a._n say_v every_o particular_a church_n have_v power_n to_o choose_v its_o own_o pastor_n dr._n owen_n make_v the_o deprive_v the_o people_n of_o this_o right_n a_o ground_n of_o separation_n if_o dr._n owen_n have_v do_v so_o let_v it_o pass_v for_o a_o part_n of_o the_o independent_a judgement_n which_o be_v the_o mistake_n of_o that_o eminent_a servant_n of_o god_n other_o be_v not_o of_o that_o mind_n for_o mr._n b._n and_o mr._n a_n word_n no_o such_o consequence_n can_v be_v draw_v from_o they_o the_o people_n and_o neither_o patron_n nor_o any_o other_o by_o the_o law_n of_o the_o gospel_n have_v the_o right_n of_o election_n of_o their_o pastor_n but_o it_o do_v not_o follow_v that_o they_o ought_v not_o to_o bear_v with_o be_v hinder_v the_o exercise_n of_o this_o right_n for_o the_o sake_n of_o peace_n and_o unity_n sect._n 4._o the_o second_o argument_n be_v the_o people_n be_v make_v judge_n of_o the_o worthyness_n and_o competency_n of_o their_o minister_n this_o say_v he_o follow_v from_o the_o former_a ans._n i_o have_v disow_v the_o former_a and_o therefore_o this_o fall_v with_o it_o yet_o i_o here_o distinguish_v the_o the_o people_n have_v a_o discretive_a power_n of_o judge_v the_o fitness_n of_o the_o man_n that_o be_v to_o be_v set_v over_o they_o with_o respect_n to_o their_o soul_n so_o as_o he_o ought_v not_o to_o be_v obtrude_v on_o they_o without_o their_o be_v satisfy_v with_o he_o but_o the_o people_n power_n of_o judge_v be_v not_o authoritative_a nor_o supreme_a much_o less_o absolute_a in_o this_o matter_n but_o subordinate_a to_o the_o pastor_n of_o the_o church_n who_o have_v power_n of_o try_v the_o person_n elect_v by_o the_o people_n and_o reject_v he_o if_o unqualify_v for_o the_o spirit_n
of_o the_o prophet_n be_v subject_a to_o the_o prophet_n not_o to_o the_o people_n as_o for_o pastor_n not_o now_o to_o be_v elect_v but_o obtrude_v on_o the_o people_n and_o settle_v among_o they_o though_o in_o a_o undue_a way_n i_o shall_v not_o say_v that_o it_o be_v the_o people_n part_n to_o separate_v mere_o for_o the_o insufficiency_n of_o the_o minister_n if_o the_o ordinance_n be_v administer_v so_o as_o they_o can_v partake_v of_o they_o without_o sin._n that_o which_o can_v warrant_v withdraw_v must_v be_v a_o depravation_n of_o the_o ordinance_n and_o that_o such_o as_o import_v my_o personal_a action_n in_o partake_v of_o that_o depravation_n of_o the_o ordinance_n and_o not_o every_o defect_n or_o fault_n either_o of_o the_o minister_n or_o the_o ordinance_n what_o mr._n b._n say_v of_o people_n duty_n to_o get_v the_o best_a supply_n they_o can_v which_o the_o dr._n tax_v he_o for_o be_v not_o mean_v of_o d●ferting_v or_o separate_v from_o a_o parish_n mere_o on_o account_n of_o the_o defective_a quali●●cations_n of_o the_o minister_n but_o either_o of_o occasional_a communion_n with_o a_o better_o supply_v society_n which_o if_o the_o dr._n do_v altogether_o condemn_v he_o shall_v preach_v against_o the_o throng_n that_o resort_v to_o he_o and_o leave_v other_o under_o who_o particular_a charge_n they_o be_v or_o when_o withdraw_a be_v found_v on_o other_o good_a ground_n that_o people_n shall_v choose_v better_o qualify_v pastor_n than_o those_o they_o leave_v what_o he_o say_v himself_o must_v explain_v and_o defend_v what_o mr._n b._n further_o say_v of_o the_o warrantable_a preach_v of_o silence_v minister_n and_o of_o the_o magistrate_n impose_v pastor_n oblige_v people_n to_o adhere_v to_o and_o own_o these_o and_o forsake_v their_o own_o pastor_n settle_v among_o they_o in_o the_o way_n of_o the_o gospel_n come_v afterward_o to_o be_v debate_v and_o have_v in_o part_n be_v speak_v to_o above_o sect._n 5._o argument_n 3d._n they_o give_v direction_n to_o the_o people_n what_o sort_n of_o minister_n they_o shall_v own_v and_o what_o not_o and_o do_v not_o the_o scripture_n so_o too_o we_o affirm_v people_n to_o have_v a_o judgement_n of_o discretion_n both_o of_o their_o pastor_n to_o be_v elect_v and_o also_o of_o the_o doctrine_n and_o administration_n of_o their_o pastor_n already_o in_o possession_n of_o the_o cha●ge_n of_o their_o soul_n and_o yet_o that_o they_o be_v not_o to_o separate_v from_o the_o latter_a for_o any_o defect_n save_o that_o which_o do_v so_o vitiate_v the_o ordinance_n as_o that_o it_o be_v their_o sin_n to_o join_v in_o they_o and_o if_o the_o dr._n will_v not_o allow_v they_o this_o judgement_n as_o he_o seem_v to_o deny_v it_o by_o his_o sarcasm_n of_o which_o say_v he_o to_o wit_n utter_a insufficiency_n and_o heresy_n the_o people_n be_v admirable_a judge_n he_o must_v introduce_v implicit_a faith_n and_o obedience_n and_o by_o this_o doctrine_n it_o have_v be_v a_o sin_n in_o the_o people_n even_o to_o have_v leave_v rome_n itself_o for_o be_v not_o they_o admirable_a judge_n of_o the_o heresy_n and_o idolatry_n of_o that_o church_n he_o that_o charge_v other_o man_n way_n so_o fierce_o with_o a_o tendency_n to_o popery_n shall_v take_v heed_n of_o give_v ground_n for_o such_o a_o reflection_n to_o be_v make_v on_o himself_o our_o lord_n do_v not_o speak_v with_o such_o contempt_n of_o the_o people_n as_o this_o learned_a dr._n do_v he_o say_v my_o sheep_n hear_v my_o voice_n and_o they_o know_v not_o the_o voice_n of_o stranger_n joh._n 10._o 27._o and_o 5._o to_o deny_v this_o spirit_n of_o discern_v to_o the_o people_n of_o god_n be_v to_o make_v they_o sheep_n in_o a_o literal_a sense_n that_o man_n may_v rule_v over_o they_o as_o beast_n i_o see_v not_o such_o inconsistency_n in_o mr._n b_n word_n as_o the_o dr._n will_v make_v we_o believe_v while_o he_o speak_v p._n 123._o of_o withdraw_a from_o the_o utter_o insufficient_a and_o heretical_a and_o p._n 124._o that_o people_n be_v not_o warrant_v to_o withdraw_v for_o a_o minister_n personal_a fault_n nor_o for_o his_o ministerial_a fault_n while_o his_o ministration_n be_v not_o utter_o untolerable_a if_o the_o dr._n can_v show_v either_o the_o falsehood_n or_o inconsistency_n of_o these_o assertion_n we_o shall_v own_v it_o he_o also_o wrong_v mr._n b._n and_o the_o nonconformist_n while_o p._n 124._o he_o tell_v we_o of_o mr._n b_n outcry_n against_o the_o people_n as_o heady_a rash_a censorious_a proud_a ignorant_a such_o as_o be_v ready_a to_o scorn_n and_o vill_n fie_o the_o grave_a and_o wise_a preacher_n and_o hence_o he_o the_o dr._n infer_v that_o such_o be_v unfit_a to_o discern_v the_o qualification_n of_o minister_n i_o ask_v the_o dr._n if_o ever_o mr._n b._n say_v that_o the_o people_n be_v all_o or_o general_o such_o we_o deny_v not_o there_o be_v too_o many_o that_o de●erve_v severe_a reproof_n for_o such_o thing_n and_o mr._n b._n have_v not_o be_v too_o spare_v in_o his_o censure_n of_o they_o but_o be_v there_o any_o shadow_n of_o reason_n for_o in●erring_v thence_o that_o all_o the_o people_n shall_v be_v deprive_v of_o the_o right_n that_o christ_n by_o his_o testament_n have_v bequeath_v to_o they_o it_o be_v as_o reasonable_a to_o say_v that_o because_o many_o man_n misguide_v or_o debauch_v away_o their_o estate_n therefore_o no_o man_n shall_v ha●e_v the_o power_n of_o manage_v his_o estate_n christ_n have_v provide_v discipline_n and_o authority_n in_o his_o house_n to_o curb_n the_o extravagancy_n of_o such_o person_n and_o to_o restrain_v the_o power_n of_o election_n when_o it_o be_v mis-managed_n as_o be_v abovesaid_a and_o he_o need_v not_o the_o dr_n and_o t●e_v prelate_n device_n to_o prevent_v this_o mischief_n by_o put_v the_o power_n of_o election_n into_o the_o hand_n of_o a_o patron_n who_o may_v be_v a_o papist_n atheist_n or_o enemy_n to_o godliness_n and_o so_o less_o fit_a to_o choose_v one_o to_o take_v the_o charge_n of_o man_n soul_n than_o any_o of_o the_o person_n describe_v sect._n 6._o and_o if_o mr._n b._n say_v that_o the_o heady_a person_n mention_v be_v common_o the_o most_o violent_a and_o will_v judge_v in_o spite_n of_o the_o rest_n yet_o the_o remedy_n that_o i_o have_v mention_v be_v for_o restrain_v of_o they_o and_o be_v like_a to_o do_v it_o bet●e●_n than_o what_o the_o dr._n be_v for_o can_v do_v neither_o do_v mr._n b._n nor_o any_o of_o we_o allow_v these_o heady_a person_n to_o be_v the_o decisive_a judge_n either_o of_o who_o of_o his_o side_n or_o who_o of_o our_o side_n be_v true_a and_o sufficient_a minister_n which_o the_o dr._n may_v have_v know_v and_o so_o spa●ed_v much_o of_o his_o discourse_n which_o i_o shall_v not_o transcribe_v that_o which_o mr._n b._n tell_v of_o many_o young_a rare_a injudicious_a preacher_n in_o england_n be_v never_o look_v on_o as_o sufficient_a ground_n of_o separation_n by_o it_o s●lf_o as_o the_o dr._n insinuate_v but_o it_o be_v a_o sad_a grievance_n and_o these_o man_n withal_o impose_v sinful_a term_n of_o communion_n on_o the_o people_n for_o who_o great_a zealot_n for_o liturgy_n and_o ceremony_n than_o they_o and_o there_o be_v many_o faithful_a and_o qualify_a minister_n lay_v aside_o from_o their_o public_a work_n be_v it_o any_o wonder_n that_o people_n leave_v the_o one_o and_o cleave_v to_o the_o other_o the_o ground_n that_o i_o have_v already_o lay_v down_o will_v justify_v our_o withdraw_n from_o the_o minister_n even_o in_o london_n however_o grave_a and_o learned_a they_o be_v and_o however_o capacious_a their_o church_n be_v for_o even_o their_o sinful_a term_n of_o communion_n be_v impose_v sect._n 7._o he_o allege_v sect._n 9_o that_o by_o this_o mean_v separation_n cann●t_v be_v keep_v out_o of_o any_o church_n whatsoever_o this_o be_v true_a if_o the_o dr._n have_v liberty_n to_o make_v our_o opinion_n to_o be_v what_o he_o please_v to_o have_v it_o that_o he_o may_v the_o better_o refute_v it_o but_o if_o our_o opinion_n be_v right_o understand_v and_o if_o we_o be_v hear_v speak_v for_o ourselves_o it_o be_v most_o false_a i_o hope_v there_o be_v church_n where_o the_o minister_n general_o be_v sound_n in_o doctrine_n and_o mix_v nothing_o with_o god_n ordinance_n as_o term_n of_o communion_n with_o they_o that_o be_v unlawful_a in_o a_o word_n there_o be_v church●s_n where_o though_o minister_n be_v not_o faultless_a yet_o the_o ordinance_n be_v pure_a or_o if_o there_o be_v any_o thing_n amiss_o in_o the_o ordinance_n people_n be_v not_o require_v to_o own_o it_o personal_o from_o such_o we_o will_v not_o withdraw_v he_o bring_v four_o quality_n that_o mr._n b._n require_v in_o minister_n the_o want_n of_o which_o may_v warrant_v to_o withdraw_v from_o they_o tolerable_a knowledge_n that_o they_o be_v